This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comMichael Lewis is the best nonfiction writer in America — and an old friend. He’s the bestselling author of Liar’s Poker, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Flash Boys. He was on the Dishcast four years ago to discuss The Premonition: A Pandemic Story, and his new book is Who Is Government? The Untold Story of Public Service — a collection of essays by Michael and others about the federal workers now under assault by Elon Musk. Michael has a preternatural ability to sense what we want to read about when we want to read about it. This book is no exception.For two clips of our convo — on DOGE killing effective programs, and the calculated trauma imposed on federal workers — pop over to our YouTube page.Other topics: how civil servants forgo bigger salaries from the private sector; how they don’t take public credit; the awards known as Sammies; the guy who revolutionized mine safety; the IRS worker who fought sex trafficking; how fraud in government is actually quite small; how Trump ignores his daily briefing; his fabulist psyche; his drive for retribution; Vought and the unitary executive; scaring workers to control them; firing the inspectors general; gutting the National Weather Service; the savior culture of USAID; the bipartisan miracle of PEPFAR; how 86% of the debt is interest + entitlements + defense that DOGE can’t affect; Musk’s ignorance on basic civics; the secrecy of DOGE; the Founders’ hatred of monarchy; Trump’s tax cuts; impending inflation; “Blame Canada”; Rubio and the Khalil case; my own green card; Vance in Germany; vilifying Zelensky; the brilliance of Thatcher; Ross Perot’s run; the Clinton/Gore downsizing; Newsom’s tack to the center; the promise of Polis and Fetterman; and stories from TNR in the ‘90s.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Nick Denton on China’s inevitable world domination, Evan Wolfson on the history of marriage equality, Francis Collins on faith and science, Douglas Murray on Israel and Gaza, and the genius filmmaker Mike White. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comIan is a historian, a journalist, and an old friend. He’s currently the Paul Williams Professor of Human Rights and Journalism at Bard College. He served as the editor of The New York Review of Books and as foreign editor of The Spectator, where he still writes. He has written many books, including Theater of Cruelty, The Churchill Complex, and The Collaborators — which we discussed on the Dishcast in 2023. This week we’re covering his latest book, Spinoza: Freedom’s Messiah.For two clips of our convo — on cancel culture in the 17th century, and how Western liberalism is dying today — see our YouTube page.Other topics: Ian’s Dutch and Jewish roots; the Golden Age of Amsterdam; its central role in finance and trade; when Holland was a republic surrounded by monarchies; the Quakers; Descartes; Hobbes; how sectarianism is the greatest danger to free thought; religious zealots; Cromwell; Voltaire; Locke; the asceticism of Spinoza; his practical skill with glasswork; the religious dissents he published anonymously; his excommunication; his lack of lovers but plentiful friends; how most of his published work was posthumous; his death at 44; the French philosophers of the Enlightenment shaped by Spinoza; how he inspired Marx and Freud; why he admired Jesus; Zionism; universalism; Socrates; Strauss’ Persecution and the Art of Writing; Puritanism through today; trans activists as gnostic; Judith Butler; the right-wing populist surge in Europe; mass migration; Brexit and the Tory fuckup; Trump’s near-alliance with Russia; DOGE; the rising tribalism of today; and thinking clearly as the secret to happiness.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Evan Wolfson on the history of marriage equality, Nick Denton on China and AI, Francis Collins on faith and science, Michael Lewis on government service, Douglas Murray on Israel and Gaza, and Mike White of White Lotus fame. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Christopher Caldwell, a senior fellow at the Claremont Institute and a sharp voice on conservative thought, engages in a deep dive into the complexities of contemporary politics. He discusses Trump’s consequential policies compared to Obama’s, the recent demise of affirmative action, and the evolving definitions of conservatism. Caldwell also touches on Biden's immigration strategies and the impact of DEI initiatives on political sentiments. The conversation critiques the dynamics between technology leaders and government, highlighting a transformative era in political leadership.

Yoni Appelbaum, a journalist and deputy executive editor at The Atlantic, dives into the intricate history of zoning in America. He reveals the surprising racist origins of these laws and how they continue to affect poor communities today. Growing up as an Orthodox Jew in Boston, Yoni shares his personal journey from politics to journalism. The discussion also touches on the significance of mobility in early America, the challenges faced by immigrants, and how progressivism inadvertently restricts upward movement for marginalized groups.

Jon Rauch, a senior fellow at Brookings and contributing editor at The Atlantic, discusses his new book, which examines Christianity's influence on democracy. He reflects on his personal journey with faith and doubt, and critiques the politicization of evangelicalism. The conversation touches on the evolving relationship between Christianity and liberal democracy, exploring tolerance and coexistence amidst societal tensions. Rauch also addresses the rise of alternative belief systems like wokeness and their consequences for traditional religious values.

Ross Douthat, a renowned New York Times columnist and author of "Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious," dives into profound discussions about faith and its relevance today. He debates the universe's origins, exploring the fine-tuning argument and humanity's unique position in the cosmos. The conversation touches on the intersection of consciousness and spirituality, the evolution of belief, and personal experiences that shape understanding of the divine. Douthat offers a compelling case for the importance of religion in a complex world.

Sebastian Junger, an acclaimed author and war correspondent known for *The Perfect Storm* and *War*, shares his profound near-death experience caused by an aneurysm. He discusses visions of his deceased father and explores the implications of near-death experiences on our understanding of life and reality. Junger contrasts his rational upbringing with his experiences of derealization and telepathy during these critical moments. His insights challenge conventional views on mortality and invite reflection on the mysteries of existence.

John Gray, a renowned political philosopher and author of "The New Leviathans: Thoughts After Liberalism," delves into the state of liberalism and America's shifting identity. He discusses the significance of Trump's inaugural address and the liberal intelligentsia's reactions. Gray critiques the rise of nationalism and hyper-liberalism, questioning traditional moral beliefs. He also addresses the challenges of declining fertility rates, artificial intelligence's impact on jobs, and the complexities of identity in modern society.

Andrew Neil, a distinguished British journalist known for his incisive interviewing style, dives into a variety of compelling topics. He shares personal stories from growing up in working-class Glasgow and discusses the decline of Europe. Neil critiques populism in the U.S. and UK, analyzing the political landscape shaped by Trump and Johnson. He also reflects on the evolution of journalism, the art of political interviews, and the intricacies of trade policies. Expect sharp insights on the rise of autocracy and the challenges facing modern media.

Adam Kirsch, a literary critic and poet with roots in a family of writers, dives into the complex theme of settler colonialism. They discuss its historical footprints in places like North America and Algeria, unveiling the moral intricacies involved. Kirsch emphasizes the resurgence of poetry in contemporary discourse, connecting it to modern political themes. The dialogue also touches on broader issues like migration and cultural identity, questioning the ideologies surrounding genocide and the impact of climate change on societal shifts.