The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan

Byron York, political journalist and author of 'Obsession', shares insights on the shifting dynamics in American conservatism. He examines the evolution of the GOP, especially in the South, and the impact of figures like Trump and Clinton on political discourse. York discusses Trump’s unorthodox challenges to Republican norms, his handling of immigration, and the long shadow of Russiagate. He also reflects on his personal journey from academic roots to the frontlines of political journalism, providing a rich context to contemporary issues.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comFrances Lee is Professor of Politics and Public Affairs at Princeton, and her books include The Limits of Party: Congress and Lawmaking in a Polarized Age. Steve Macedo —an old friend from Harvard — is the Laurance S. Rockefeller Professor of Politics and the University Center for Human Values at Princeton, and his books include Just Married: Same-Sex Couples, Monogamy, and the Future of Marriage. The book they just co-wrote is called In Covid’s Wake: How Our Politics Failed Us.For two clips of our convo — on the demonization of dissent during Covid, and where the right went wrong on the pandemic — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: Frances raised in the Deep South; Steve from a family of educators in Massachusetts; his Jesuit schooling as a gay Catholic; how both were natural contrarians; the pre-pandemic plans for Covid; their personal reactions to the outbreak; the emergency after 9/11; the Spanish flu; the cost/benefit of lockdowns; the different reactions in red and blue states; the Sweden model; the trillions of dollars in Covid relief; Fauci’s appeal to authority; Partygate and Newsom’s French Laundry; the remote work enjoyed by elites; how blue-collar workers bore the brunt; the generational injustice suffered by kids; Operation Warp Speed; the early myths of the vaccine; the Ptown vaccinated outbreak; censorship on social media; the moralizing of the MSM; the public-health hypocrisy on BLM protests; the mask mandates after the vaccines; how boosters weren’t backed by good evidence; the Great Barrington Declaration; the Ebright testimony; the “Proximal Origin” paper; gain of function and the short-lived moratorium; the illiberal mistakes of Francis Collins; addressing his claims on lab leak; and the alarming current risks of viral escape.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Byron York on Trump 2.0, Claire Lehmann on the woke right, Robert Merry on President McKinley, Sam Tanenhaus on Bill Buckley, Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson on the Biden years, and Paul Elie on his book The Last Supper: Art, Faith, Sex, and Controversy in the 1980s. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Francis Collins, a physician and geneticist known for leading the Human Genome Project, discusses his remarkable journey from a rustic farm to groundbreaking scientific achievements. He recounts his transition from atheism to faith, sparked by profound personal experiences. The conversation intensifies as he addresses the controversial lab-leak theory regarding COVID-19, reflecting on trust issues in science and society. He also delves into his reflections on life, sacrifice, and the intersection of belief and scientific inquiry.

Evan Wolfson, a trailblazing attorney and gay rights pioneer, founded Freedom to Marry, leading the charge for marriage equality. He shares captivating insights about the fierce resistance within the gay community during early activism and the monumental breakthrough in Hawaii. Reflecting on his personal journey, he discusses his formative experiences, the impact of the AIDS crisis, and the evolving landscape of public support for marriage equality. Wolfson highlights coalition-building strategies that turned the tide in favor of love and legal recognition.

Douglas Murray, a prominent writer and commentator, dives into hot-button topics like the political landscape under Trump, his frontline experiences in Ukraine, and the intricate dynamics of Israel's actions in Gaza. He passionately debates the implications of anti-Semitism on campuses and the challenges of deportation laws, stressing the balance between free speech and safety. Their lively discussion also touches on the psychological toll of violence, exploring the mindset behind the October 7th attack and the tragic human cost of conflict.

Nick Denton, entrepreneur and founder of Gawker Media, shares his insights on the shifting power dynamics in technology. He discusses how China is outpacing rivals like Elon Musk and explores the implications of Chinese pragmatism on global competition. Denton reflects on his unique early experiences in journalism, contrasting Eastern Europe's transformations with current tech narratives. He also highlights the burgeoning Chinese automotive industry and challenges American misconceptions about technological advancement.

Mike White, a talented writer, director, and actor known for his work on The White Lotus and Enlightened, shares his inspiring journey. He discusses growing up in Pasadena with a gay evangelical father, navigating the complexities of identity and acceptance. White reflects on the influence of literature and art on his creative expression, while also examining the cultural impact of reality TV. He candidly opens up about a personal crisis that led to his spiritual awakening, blending humor and depth in his storytelling.

Michael Lewis, bestselling author of engaging nonfiction works like Liar's Poker and Moneyball, dives deep into the challenges faced by government workers. He discusses the damaging effects of DOGE on effective programs and sheds light on public servants who prioritize service over higher pay. With captivating stories, Lewis debunks misconceptions about fraud in government and emphasizes the critical role of civil servants amidst political inefficiencies. His insights reveal a stark contrast between the needs of public service and the whims of political narratives.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comIan is a historian, a journalist, and an old friend. He’s currently the Paul Williams Professor of Human Rights and Journalism at Bard College. He served as the editor of The New York Review of Books and as foreign editor of The Spectator, where he still writes. He has written many books, including Theater of Cruelty, The Churchill Complex, and The Collaborators — which we discussed on the Dishcast in 2023. This week we’re covering his latest book, Spinoza: Freedom’s Messiah.For two clips of our convo — on cancel culture in the 17th century, and how Western liberalism is dying today — see our YouTube page.Other topics: Ian’s Dutch and Jewish roots; the Golden Age of Amsterdam; its central role in finance and trade; when Holland was a republic surrounded by monarchies; the Quakers; Descartes; Hobbes; how sectarianism is the greatest danger to free thought; religious zealots; Cromwell; Voltaire; Locke; the asceticism of Spinoza; his practical skill with glasswork; the religious dissents he published anonymously; his excommunication; his lack of lovers but plentiful friends; how most of his published work was posthumous; his death at 44; the French philosophers of the Enlightenment shaped by Spinoza; how he inspired Marx and Freud; why he admired Jesus; Zionism; universalism; Socrates; Strauss’ Persecution and the Art of Writing; Puritanism through today; trans activists as gnostic; Judith Butler; the right-wing populist surge in Europe; mass migration; Brexit and the Tory fuckup; Trump’s near-alliance with Russia; DOGE; the rising tribalism of today; and thinking clearly as the secret to happiness.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Evan Wolfson on the history of marriage equality, Nick Denton on China and AI, Francis Collins on faith and science, Michael Lewis on government service, Douglas Murray on Israel and Gaza, and Mike White of White Lotus fame. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Christopher Caldwell, a senior fellow at the Claremont Institute and a sharp voice on conservative thought, engages in a deep dive into the complexities of contemporary politics. He discusses Trump’s consequential policies compared to Obama’s, the recent demise of affirmative action, and the evolving definitions of conservatism. Caldwell also touches on Biden's immigration strategies and the impact of DEI initiatives on political sentiments. The conversation critiques the dynamics between technology leaders and government, highlighting a transformative era in political leadership.