The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comMy old and dear friend Johann has written four bestsellers: Chasing the Scream: The First and Last Days of the War on Drugs, Lost Connections: Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression, Stolen Focus: Why You Can’t Pay Attention (discussed on the Dishcast here), and Magic Pill: The Extraordinary Benefits and Disturbing Risks of the New Weight-Loss Drugs (discussed here). His upcoming book is about the tunnels below Las Vegas.Four years ago we aired a 2012 interview that Johann did with me — in two parts, here and here. In this new episode we cover: my first time doing shrooms — in Amsterdam with Matt and Trey; the perversion of many Germans; my first MDMA trip in the early ‘90s; fleeing rave parties to contemplate God; a disastrous trip I experienced when Johann was present — which he calls “a dystopian version of Fawlty Towers”; ego death; Michael Pollan’s How to Change Your Mind; Roland Griffiths; Johann’s psychedelic theory about A Passage to India; how religious peeps integrate bad trips better than non-believers; how early HIV drugs affected a psychedelic trip; feeling agape on drugs; why psychedelics often don’t affect monks and nuns very much; the 15 minutes I believed that God is evil; my mom’s mental illness; the adolescent event that made me a conservative; equity in education; my teenage years in The History Boys; growing up with Keir Starmer; his wild days; our frenemy debates; the Oxford Union; my introversion; coming to America; identity politics; what Foucault got right; Virtually Normal; the Dish blog covering Obama 2008 and the Green Revolution; the indy Dish in 2013; retiring the blog after my doctor said it might kill me; the BLM summer and getting fired from New York mag; Milo Yiannopoulos; Tucker Carlson; Hitchens; The Conservative Soul; Johann prodding about my sex life; Truman; and what I want to achieve in the third trimester of my life. I apologize for TMI.Chris and I are both now enjoying a summer respite from the news and work. Hope all Dishheads are able to get some time to do the same. Perspective is so critical right now, and our culture is designed to obliterate it. See you when the new season debuts at the end of August.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comScott is a war correspondent and author. His non-fiction books include Lawrence in Arabia, Fractured Lands, and The Quiet Americans, and his novels include Triage and Moonlight Hotel. He’s also a contributing writer for the New York Times Magazine. His new book is King of Kings: The Iranian Revolution: A Story of Hubris, Delusion and Catastrophic Miscalculation.For two clips of our convo — on Jimmy Carter’s debacle with the Shah, and the hero of the Iran hostage crisis — head to our YouTube page.Other topics: growing up in East Asia and traveling the world; his father the foreign service officer; their time in Iran not long before the revolution; Iran a “chew toy” between the British and Russian empires; the Shah’s father’s affinity for Nazi Germany; Mosaddegh’s move to nationalize the oil; the 1953 coup; the police state under the Shah; having the world’s 5th biggest military; the OPEC embargo; the rise of Khomeini and his exile; the missionary George Braswell and the mullahs; Carter's ambitious foreign policy; the US grossly overestimating the Shah; selling him arms; Kissinger; the cluelessness of the CIA; the prescience of Michael Metrinko; the Tabriz riots; students storming the US embassy; state murder under Khomeini dwarfing the Shah’s; the bombing of Iran’s nuke facilities; and Netanyahu playing into Hamas’ hands.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: a fun chat with Johann Hari, Jill Lepore on the history of the Constitution, Karen Hao on artificial intelligence, and Katie Herzog on drinking your way sober. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

Shannon Minter is a civil rights attorney and legal director at the National Center for LGBTQ Rights, notable for his role in landmark marriage cases. He shares his personal journey from a troubled adolescence with gender dysphoria to becoming a trans man. The discussion highlights the complexities of trans activism and its impact on the gay rights movement, touching on family acceptance, the need for open dialogue, and the importance of persuasion in advocacy. Minter also reflects on his childhood in rural Texas and the ongoing struggles for justice and understanding in the LGBTQ community.

Tara Zahra, Hanna Holborn Gray Professor of East European History at the University of Chicago, dives into her book exploring anti-globalism after WWI. She discusses the stark transformations in nationalism and identity, revealing how the Treaty of Versailles and post-war chaos birthed modern anti-global sentiments. Zahra connects historical anti-Semitism with today's class resentments, linking past economic crises to contemporary struggles. She even draws parallels between figures like Henry Ford and Trump, showcasing the enduring complexities of national identity.

Thomas Mallon, a novelist and professor emeritus at GW, shares his journey from a struggling Long Island family to becoming a literary figure. He discusses the profound impact of the AIDS crisis, reflecting on personal losses and its role in bringing LGBTQ+ issues to the forefront. Mallon also explores his literary influences, touching on the clarity found in Orwell's writing. He candidly addresses the complexities of navigating his identity as a gay man against a backdrop of societal stigma and political change.

Edward Luce, US national editor and columnist at the Financial Times, shares insights from his distinguished career. He discusses the allure of British boarding schools and their cultural impact, as well as the evolution of education as a tool of soft power. Luce critiques the U.S. response to global dynamics, touching on energy independence amid the Ukraine conflict and the U.S.-China relationship. He highlights the dangers of growing isolationism and the need for America to reevaluate its role on the world stage.

Walter Isaacson, the Leonard Lauder Professor of American History at Tulane and former Time magazine editor, delves into Benjamin Franklin's multifaceted legacy. They discuss Franklin's fierce opposition to arbitrary power and his rift with his loyalist son, William. Isaacson shares insights about Franklin's rise from an indentured printer to a key figure in American history. He also reflects on the resilience shaped by New Orleans' culture and the vital role of humility and virtue in democracy, drawing parallels between science and democratic principles.

Paul Elie, a writer and senior fellow at Georgetown, dives into the fascinating intersection of religion and pop culture. He discusses Martin Scorsese’s complex portrayal of Jesus and the backlash surrounding 'The Last Temptation of Christ.' Elie reflects on Leonard Cohen's spiritual evolution and how his music, especially 'Hallelujah,' resonates with themes of faith. He also examines Bono and U2's shift towards a nuanced spirituality and explores cultural icons like Madonna, showcasing how they navigate sexuality and faith in their artistry.

Batya Ungar-Sargon, a journalist and author known for her insights on media and democracy, dives into hot-button issues surrounding Trump and his policies. She discusses her Orthodox upbringing and how it informs her views on morality and education. Batya critiques the rise of political correctness and the complexities of tariffs, reflecting on how socioeconomic factors influence public opinion. She also shares her evolving perspective on Trump and the implications of neoliberalism, highlighting a fascinating dialogue on class warfare and media's role in politics.

Chris Matthews, a renowned TV broadcaster and author who once served as a speechwriter for Jimmy Carter, discusses his dynamic journey through politics and media. He reflects on his Catholic upbringing in Philadelphia and its impact on his worldview. Matthews shares engaging stories from his time working in the Peace Corps and on Capitol Hill, revealing the ebbs and flows of political life. He also critiques key figures like Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton, touching on their legacies and the shift in voting patterns in his hometown.