Batya Ungar-Sargon, a journalist and author known for her insights on media and democracy, dives into hot-button issues surrounding Trump and his policies. She discusses her Orthodox upbringing and how it informs her views on morality and education. Batya critiques the rise of political correctness and the complexities of tariffs, reflecting on how socioeconomic factors influence public opinion. She also shares her evolving perspective on Trump and the implications of neoliberalism, highlighting a fascinating dialogue on class warfare and media's role in politics.
41:24
forum Ask episode
web_stories AI Snips
view_agenda Chapters
menu_book Books
auto_awesome Transcript
info_circle Episode notes
insights INSIGHT
Orthodox Rituals Enhance Desire
Orthodox Jewish rituals around family purity instill a disciplined rhythm in life and intimacy. - Restrictions like mikvah baths enhance desire by introducing intentional limits.
insights INSIGHT
Ritual Limits Foster Agency
Rituals impose limits that provide agency by surrendering personal judgment in certain life areas. - This discipline creates meaningful structure and fulfillment beyond mere autonomy.
question_answer ANECDOTE
Accidental Start in Journalism
Batya Ungar-Sargon fell into journalism by accident covering Hurricane Sandy's impact on undocumented immigrants. - She quickly realized writing about real people's lives was more engaging than academic work.
Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode
How the Elites Betrayed America's Working Men and Women
Batya Ungar-Sargan
In 'Second Class', Batya Ungar-Sargon presents a detailed look at the lives of American working-class individuals through extensive interviews and data analysis. The book is divided into two parts: the first profiles the state of the working class, categorizing them into the Struggling, Floating, and Rising tiers; the second proposes policy solutions to improve their lives. Ungar-Sargon addresses key issues such as immigration, job requirements, and the social safety net, arguing that the elites have betrayed the working class by prioritizing the interests of capital owners over wage-earners. The book emphasizes the need for policies that benefit working-class Americans and highlights the disconnect between the political class and the everyday concerns of working people.
Bad News
How Woke Media Is Undermining Democracy
Batya Ungar-Sargan
In this book, Batya Ungar-Sargon argues that American journalism has undergone a significant transformation over the twentieth century, evolving from a blue-collar trade to an elite profession. This shift has led journalists to focus more on the concerns of their affluent, highly educated peers rather than the working class. The book explores how the rise of the Internet and the decline of local news have nationalized elite news media, aligning corporate incentives with ideological newsroom crusades. Ungar-Sargon contends that this transformation has resulted in a media landscape that prioritizes 'woke' narratives and identity politics over class-conscious reporting, thereby consolidating the power of liberal elites and undermining American democracy[2][4][5].
Pamela
Samuel Richardson
Samuel Richardson's "Pamela" is considered one of the earliest and most influential examples of the epistolary novel. Written in the form of letters, the novel tells the story of a young servant girl who resists the advances of her master. The novel's focus on Pamela's inner thoughts and feelings, conveyed through her letters, was groundbreaking for its time. "Pamela" explores themes of virtue, morality, and social class, and its innovative structure helped shape the development of the novel as a literary form. Its success led to a sequel, "Clarissa", and significantly influenced later novelists.
Batya is a journalist and author. She’s a columnist for The Free Press, a co-host of The Group Chat on 2Way, and the author of two books: Bad News: How Woke Media Is Undermining Democracy, and Second Class: How the Elites Betrayed America’s Working Men and Women. Her forthcoming book is about, as she puts it, “why Jews are Democrats and why the left turned on the Jews.”
For two clips of our convo — on Trump’s class warfare, and deporting non-citizens over speech — head to our YouTube page.
Other topics: raised in an Orthodox family; debating issues with her parents and five siblings during Shabbat; spending high school in Israel; same-sex education; the mikveh; how sexual desire is better with limitations; becoming secular for a decade; getting a PhD in English literature; her “accidental” entry into journalism during Hurricane Sandy; the Great Awokening in media; Trump’s despicable character; his fickle tariffs; his tax cuts; Congress ceding power to Trump; Biden’s tariffs; his investment in factories and infrastructure; his disastrous immigration policy; Batya’s evolving views on Trump; marriage equality; Bostock; trans activist ideology; Trump’s EO on trans servicemembers; Scott Bessent; the overreach of neoliberalism; Adam Smith; the tax cuts in the BBB; crypto; defunding science at Harvard; gutting USAID; the State Dept’s AI surveillance; the 1952 McCarthyite law; Öztürk and Khalil; UNRWA and Gaza; Israel striking Iran; and the possibility of regime change.
There were eight clashes over facts in the episode. Chris ran them through Grok, which one presumes would not be too biased against Trump. You can read the eight back-and-forths on the web version of the episode. You should listen and, with these independent sources in mind, decide for yourself on the facts. I think I missed the mark a little a couple of times, but was specifically wrong in assuming that Batya was all in on the war against Iran and always had been. I apologize for that — and for getting a bit too amped up. I should try not to do that when I’m a host and I hope Batya will forgive me. But a vast amount of the chat was nonetheless delightful — and this is a stressful time.
Coming up on the Dishcast: Paul Elie on crypto-religion in ‘80s pop culture, Walter Isaacson on Ben Franklin, Tara Zahra on the revolt against globalization after WWI, Thomas Mallon on the AIDS crisis, and Johann Hari turning the tables to interview me. (NS Lyons has indefinitely postponed a pod appearance — and his own substack — because he just accepted an appointment at the State Department; and the Arthur Brooks pod is postponed because of calendar conflicts.) Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.
The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan 
