Two by Two

This episode of Two by Two was first published on 17th April 2025.Premium subscribers of The Ken have full access to ALL our premium audio. They are available exclusively via The Ken’s subscriber apps. If you don’t have them, just download one and log in to unlock everything. Get your premium subscription using this link.Not a Premium subscriber? You can subscribe to The Ken Premium on Apple Podcasts for an easy monthly price (Rs 299 in India). The channel includes ALL our premium podcasts.-Today’s episode is about something you wouldn’t have heard of – search funds. Initially, we thought this would be something arcane and boring, but the more we read about it, the more it started to sound like an arrangement that sounds too good to be true.Search funds invert and twist all our conventional ideas of how people start, build, scale and fund businesses in India. It’s an old model that has been somewhat popular in more developed markets and is just starting to get some traction in India. For the tens of thousands of small and medium businesses in India that have achieved a level of success and want to go to the next level, the answer may just be…search funds. This episode is about a model that’s full of contradictions. It’s about entrepreneurs who aren’t founders. It’s about VCs who spend the first few years raising money and then spend the next few years actually running the business they raise money for. It’s also about operators who decide first that they want to become CEOs and then search for the companies they are going to lead.And plot twist…all of these are the same person.And in today’s episode, we have two wonderful guests who are here to tell us how they’re doing this.Anurag Sinha is the Managing Partner at Milestone Search Capital, one of the pioneers of the Search Fund model, and his bio says, “Looking to buy a great business”.Anurag’s journey as a business leader began with entrepreneurship at the age of 17, where he spent his formative years building ventures across Healthcare, Consumer Tech, and Retail.In his latest role, Anurag was the CEO of Raam Group, an automotive retail conglomerate in India. Anurag oversaw businesses generating a topline of $100 million and managing a workforce of over 800 people. With over 12 years of experience spanning entrepreneurship, rapid-scale startups, and leadership roles in traditional business models, Anurag is now embarking on a new chapter: acquiring and scaling a promising business.Anurag holds an MBA from INSEAD, where he studied across both the France and Singapore campuses. Prior to that, he earned a B.Com (Hons) from Delhi University.Rehan Netarwala is the founder and managing partner at Okintek Capital, where he’s looking for an SME business to grow and scale. His bio says, “Looking for a great SME business to acquire and grow”.Prior to starting Okintek Capital, Rehan was the co-founder of Savage and Palmer, where he helped SME entrepreneurs run and scale their businesses with our wide range of solutions right from Digital Marketing to Accounting & Taxation. Rehan is a graduate of the Indian School of Business and has a B.E. from Mumbai University.In this week’s episode of Two by Two, co-hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan sit down with Anurag Sinha and Rehan Netarwala to break down why and how search funds do what they do.Welcome to episode 38 of Two by Two.–Get you tickets here – https://the-ken.com/event/building-unique-career-lattices/–First Principles is back with a new season.Listen to the first episode with Vidit Aatrey, co-founder and CEO of Meesho – https://the-ken.com/podcasts/first-principles/vidit-aatrey-on-building-a-problem-first-mindset-into-meeshos-culture/–This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

In this discussion, Mohit Satyanand, an entrepreneur and economy-watcher, shares insights on the impact of Trump’s tariffs on India. He emphasizes the challenges that Indian entrepreneurs face in a competitive global market, highlighting the need for transparency in economic policy. The conversation delves into the complexities of India's trade relations with the U.S., including the implications for sectors like textiles and pharmaceuticals. Satyanand also explores the balancing act between protectionism and the growth opportunities within India's evolving economic landscape.

You’ve surely heard of the term of the term enshittification? In case you haven’t, it was coined by blogger and journalist Cory Doctorow. He defined it as the pattern in which online products and services decline in quality over time.This decline or decay has started to show in Indian Consumer tech products as well, resulting in an experience for customers that is much worse than what was promised. From seemingly unharmful dark patterns to unnecessary cross-selling, the spectrum lies wide sour digital experiences for a customer today.And why they’re doing this is quite simple.These products first got your trust and managed to delight you by delivering on their promise. Then, they made that promise available for a price. Fair enough, if it’s good, then surely the promise has a price you should be willing to pay. Now, we seem to have arrived at a point where they’re asking more to deliver that same promise. They want to extract more money from a customer’s wallet. What forces them to do so becomes the next question.This enshittening and many more ways in which many of the platforms we use have aged badly was the core of the discussion in this week’s episode of Two by Two. Joining hosts Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan are Aditya Suresh, head of India equity research at Macquarie, and Abhishek Madan, ex-VP of Product at Paytm*Aditya brought the market’s perspective to the discussion with his sharp insights, how the experience could be different based on whether a company is public or private, and what gets talked about in both contexts. Abhishek, in his third time on the podcast, added the flavour by explaining why and how the platform decay came about.Welcome to episode 36 of Two by Two.–Help us find interesting women guests by filling out this survey – https://theken.typeform.com/to/KH0EOLGo–Listen to the episode trailer available on all podcast streaming platorms:  Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Amazon Music | Youtube–Additional reading:Enshittification is coming for absolutely everything – https://www.ft.com/content/6fb1602d-a08b-4a8c-bac0-047b7d64aba5Phonepe spent millions to rival Policybazaar. Its users couldn’t care less – https://the-ken.com/story/phonepe-spent-millions-to-rival-policybazaar-its-users-couldnt-care-less/Swiggy needs to reclaim its past glory – https://the-ken.com/newsletters/two-by-two/swiggy-needs-to-reclaim-its-past-glory/How will Ola and Uber avoid ‘death by a thousand cuts’? – https://the-ken.com/newsletters/two-by-two/how-will-ola-and-uber-avoid-death-by-a-thousand-cuts/First, Cult.fit’s group classes got everyone’s attention. Now “Cult injuries” do – https://the-ken.com/newsletters/two-by-two/how-will-ola-and-uber-avoid-death-by-a-thousand-cuts/Additional listening:Should you invest the first two years of your career in strategy consulting? – https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/should-you-invest-the-first-two-years-of-your-career-doing-strategy-consulting/How will Ola and Uber avoid ‘death by a thousand cuts’? – https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/how-will-ola-and-uber-avoid-death-by-a-thousand-cuts/Swiggy needs to reclaim its past glory – https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/swiggy-needs-to-reclaim-its-past-glory/–This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more examples of enshittification, do tell us about them. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

“The future of consultants is intricately linked to the future of consulting”That’s what one of the guests had to say about the future of consultants and the promise of consulting careers.Being a consultant at any of the big three consulting firms—McKinsey & Company, Bain & Company, and Boston Consulting Group(BCG)—meant one thing: The opportunity to work on cutting-edge projects with big, innovative companies. It allowed the people who worked at these companies to have career opportunities, which would allow them to be prepared for even more challenging and rewarding roles in the world of startups.The accelerated learning, prestige, community and great pay packages that these companies offered ensured the best talent lined up to work for them.The first two years of a career in consulting are gruelling, demanding and difficult and often involve “low-value work”, like making presentations, data analysis and sending requests for proposals to really annoying clients.However, people still rush and fight to do it with the expectation that the payoffs compound later. It gives them a broader view of how companies work and operate.It acts as a training ground for building startups and laterally jumping into senior executive roles at fast-growing companies or even going higher up the consulting ladder.Today, that trade-off equation looks a bit distorted for students because it’s never been easier to start a company.It’s also been very easy to find post-MBA roles in companies that are more strategic in nature, and ESOPs look much more real and valuable because companies are going public.So the question becomes: Will students continue to chase consulting firms as a lucrative and promising career option? And does a career in consulting hold the same promises as it used to?Joining hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar for the episode are Rahul Chaudhary, co-founder of Treebo, ex-McKinsey & Company and Pragya Batra, co-founder of Quirksmith, ex-Bain & Company.Welcome to episode 35 of Two by Two.–Help us find interesting women guests by filling out this survey – https://theken.typeform.com/to/KH0EOLGo–Additional listening:If B-schools were invented today, would students run placements? – https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/if-b-schools-were-invented-today-would-students-run-placements/AI comes to annihilate India’s SaaS companies – https://the-ken.com/podcasts/two-by-two/ai-comes-to-annihilate-indias-saas-companies/–This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

You could, in many ways, picture India’s tech businesses venturing into the global stage in waves. First, there were the services companies. Your Wipros and Infosys and the like. Then, startups such as Zomato, Oyo, and Ola took their shot. The third wave was headlined by SaaS companies like Zoho and Freshworks. What does the fourth wave look like? What does the future hold for companies making the jump? This week’s episode of Two by Two was our attempt to answer some of those questions. Our guests for the podcast ended up adding quite a bit more. Mohit Kumar is founder and CEO of Ultrahuman, best known for its smart rings which compete with the likes of Oura and Samsung, but also offering a wide range of other devices and products for health-conscious buyers.Lal Chand Bisu is the co-founder and CEO of Kuku FM, a mobile-first premium audio platform hosting content in multiple Indian languages.Two very different companies, with one bold bet in common: they chose to take their products global. Welcome to episode 34 of Two by Two.–Book your tickets for The Ken’s first subscriber event – https://the-ken.com/event/beyond-the-first-order/–Additional reading:Kuku FM chooses not to be the hero in its own storyPocket FM had 10 million listeners in India. Yet it hit pay dirt elsewhere–This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

Free-range eggs and chicken have been gaining popularity for a while. The practices involved in producing and raising them are considered more humane. The market for humane meat has been growing slowly but steadily. Reports suggest that a majority of the country eats eggs, chicken, or meat. Shouldn’t we care about how the animals that reach our plates are raised and killed? It’s not a question with easy answers.Today, consumers are becoming more aware of the conditions in which the eggs and meat they consume are produced. They are making a conscious choice to seek out spaces that treat these animals well before they become a means of our sustenance.Should meat and fish eaters be willing to pay a premium to ensure the animals that we consume – or whose products we consume – are treated as ethically and humanely as possible? How big is this market? How fast is it growing? How should we think about it? Or should we take the lazy route and laugh it off as an oxymoron?Episode 33 of Two by Two, hosted by Rohin Dharmakumar and Praveen Gopal Krishnan, aimed to find an answer and explain how it makes sense.And they were joined by four wonderful guests for the discussion.Our first guest is Dineshkumar Shanmugam, the co-founder and CEO of Earthy Origins, a Tamil Nadu-based farm-to-table startup that grows, raises, and sells organic food products and ethically raised chickens and free-range eggs.Our second guest is Sandeep Reddy, the CEO of India Animal Fund, a nonprofit that brings together a diverse mix of leaders from the corporate and animal welfare sectors to take a strategic look at ending all forms of animal harm. They believe that doing the most good means minimising the suffering of the most vulnerable, that is, animals. Our third guest is K Vijay, the Bengaluru-based founder of another meat startup, Meatright.Our final guest is Shan Kadavil, co-founder and CEO of Freshtohome, one of the leading online sellers of meat and fish in India. We’ve interviewed Shan for First Principles, The Ken’s leadership podcast. His clarity of thought around setting up and scaling an online meat business in India was amazing. You should listen to it if you haven’t.–Additional reading:Famine, affluence and morality – https://rintintin.colorado.edu/~vancecd/phil308/Singer2.pdfFood, a question of ethics – 5 principles of ethical eating – https://kindredmedia.org/2007/09/food-a-question-of-ethics-5-principles-of-ethical-eating/Animals and choices – https://the-ken.com/newsletter/first-principles/animals-and-choices/How many Indians eat meat? – https://www.thehindu.com/data/data-how-many-indians-eat-meat/article65299234.eceAdditional listening:Shan Kadavil of Freshtohome on selling fish, building moats, encouraging bottom-up “shots on goal”, and being honest with boards – https://the-ken.com/podcasts/first-principles/shan-kadavil-fresh-to-home/Peter Singer – The ethics of what we eat – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHzwqf_JkrA–Help us find interesting women guests by filling out this survey – https://theken.typeform.com/to/KH0EOLGo–This episode of Two by Two was researched and produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, please share it with your friends and family who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.

Vanita Kohli-Khandekar, a renowned media expert and author, dives into the fierce competition between YouTube and streaming giants like Jio Hotstar for the future of television. She highlights YouTube’s transformative rise as the go-to platform for interactive content, while contrasting it with streaming services that focus on exclusive, high-quality programming. The discussion unveils how live events on platforms like Jio Hotstar are reshaping viewer engagement, turning passive watching into interactive experiences, and reshaping the media landscape in India.

The podcast dives into Airtel's innovative AI-powered system aimed at combating spam calls and messages. It highlights the challenges of reliance on these automated systems, sharing insights from users and experts. The discussion also contrasts Airtel's approach with Truecaller’s crowdsourced model, revealing the complexities in spam detection. Additionally, the show examines the broader implications of spam on trust in telecommunications, and the cunning tactics utilized by scammers in India, underscoring the urgent need for more robust solutions.

The consumer need for 10-minute deliveries wasn't demanded, but it was created.Multiple startups went into an arms race to deliver products faster and faster to users who never really asked for them.This expanded into category after category, starting from groceries to FMCG products, then to apparel, electronics, PS5s, iPhones, and later food. The 10-minute monster demands to be fed and is eating category after category, forcing consumers to change long-established patterns so they can get stuff delivered to their homes at a turnaround time they never imagined possible.The next big frontier for all of these start-ups is now alcohol and liquor.Finally, we have a category where most consumers want organised, regulated, and legitimate home deliveries. They're probably even willing to pay for it.For quick commerce start-ups, too, home delivery of alcohol is a huge opportunity.High margins, high stickiness, great repeat, massive market, negligible customer acquisition costs, hundreds of millions of consumers want it.Startups with hundreds of millions in capital are desperate to offer it.So, what is stopping 10-minute alcohol delivery?In the latest episode of Two by Two, hosts Praveen Gopal Krishnan and Rohin Dharmakumar are joined by Prasanna Natarajan, founder of Sipping Spirits and Hipbar, India's first home-delivery liquor startup, which was later acquired by Cred, and Debashish Shyam, co-founder and director of Ardent Alcobev. He's had nearly 20 years of experience in alcohol marketing and sales at organisations as diverse as United Spirits and IBTC in Myanmar.-This episode of Two by Two was produced by Hari Krishna. Rajiv CN, our resident sound engineer, mixed and mastered this episode.If you liked this episode of Two by Two, do share it with like-minded individuals who would be interested in listening to the episode. And if you have more thoughts on the discussion, we’d love to hear your arguments as well. You can write to us at twobytwo@the-ken.com.-Listen to One Billion in 10 Minutes on The Ken app, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.-Disclaimer:Alcohol consumption is injurious to health. No participants in this episode promote alcohol consumption and strongly discourage underage, binge, and careless drinking. All panelists in this show express their own personal views, which do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or promoters. Please drink responsibly.

In this discussion, Shreyas Srinivasan, former Chief Product Officer at Paytm and founder of District, and Sudhir Syal, former CEO of Bookmyshow Indonesia and Middle East, delve into why Indians favor attending live events abroad over local options. They explore cultural shifts and logistical challenges in India's event scene versus international norms. The duo also tackles the shifting financial power in the music industry and highlights the myriad reasons behind this trend, showcasing a fascinating contrast between local experiences and those abroad.