The Brainy Business | Understanding the Psychology of Why People Buy | Behavioral Economics

Today I am very honored to have Nuala Walsh join me on the show. You have heard her voice before as she was part of the contingent that came on to discuss The Global  Association of Applied Behavioural Scientists or GAABS when it first launched in the fall of 2020. In addition to her work to get that started, she is the founder of a consultancy called MindEquity, which specializes in reputation communications, conduct, culture and behaviour change. She is the former chief marketing officer at Standard Life Aberdeen and also previously worked at Blackrock, Merrill Lynch, and PA Consulting. In addition to her consulting work and research (some of which we discuss today), she is also the vice-chair for UN Women (UK), a member of the Inclusion Advisory Board at The Football Association, on the Gender Taskforce at World Athletics, and more.   Nuala is a smart person doing amazing things to be sure and also just a wonderful human. She was kind enough to be a guest lecturer in my Internal Communications and Change Management course at Texas A&M talking about how to apply behavioral economics into mergers and acquisitions. It was truly a fascinating discussion the students loved. Today we are talking about some research Nuala conducted that ended up as an article in the Harvard Business Review. This research is about blowing the whistle at work and she has made some really important — somewhat surprising — discoveries and recommendations.       Show Notes: [00:07] I’m very excited to introduce you to Nuala Walsh, to share about the behavioral science of standing up and blowing the whistle at work. [01:02] In addition to Nuala’s work to get GAABS started, she is a founder of a consultancy called MindEquity which specialized in reputation communications, conduct, culture, and behavior change.  [03:45] Nuala is a repeat guest on The Brainy Business podcast. She made her first appearance on the GAABS episode.  [04:22] Nuala shares about her background and who she is. [05:46] She does a huge amount of work for sports in the discrimination space. The purpose is to level the playing field for athletics.  [08:01] Nuala shares how she got into the diversity, equity and inclusion space. [09:47] Nuala shares her experiences working with the UN women’s Association, World Athletics, and Football Association.  [12:38] Melina reflects on a point from Jon Levy’s interview: in business, most hire for competence first, then honesty, and benevolence at some point. Benevolence is actually most important.   [14:13] Diversity starts with actually hiring diversity (not just have them included in the slate of candidates).  [15:09] One thing that companies can do is to listen to the recruitment agencies. The change really starts at the top.     [16:54] Companies should take the outside view and listen to the other groups that have independent objectivity more than themselves.   [19:02] Nuala shares her research about speaking up at work when seeing wrongdoings. Too many people witness the wrongdoing and stay silent.  [19:56] Her work really focused on how to get bystanders to act.  [21:17] 82% of whistleblowers suffer harassment. 60% of those lost their jobs and 17% lost their homes. 10% of those people attempted suicide. That is a high price to pay for speaking up.    [23:47] In her study, only 10% of people even took the first step of figuring out how to report the problem.   [26:14] It is only estimated that 1.4% of employees blow the whistle and actually do something.  [28:24] With a zero-tolerance policy people are not going to be very keen to speak up.  [31:34] The thing that struck Nuala most in her studies was the number of people that found whistleblowing as an act of courage.   [33:41] If somebody prevents some kind of disaster you can make a hero out of that story and celebrate them. It recognizes their work without putting anyone else at risk.  [34:51] When the environment changes, like working from home, people are more likely to report something (or at least say they will) [35:21] Using the courage stories as evidence-based tracking is key.  [38:38] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [40:11] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence by Jon Levy   Finding Confidence in Conflict: How to Negotiate Anything and Live Your Best Life by Kwame Christian     Connect with Nuala: (MAKE THIS COLUMN 1) Mindequity Website Nuala on LinkedIn Nuala on Twitter The Global  Association of Applied Behavioural Scientists (GAABS) How to Encourage Employees to Speak Up When They See Wrongdoing Past Episodes & Other Important Links: (MAKE THIS COLUMN 2) Texas A&M University Certificate Program Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 121: Meet GAABS! Interview with founding members of the Global Association of Applied Behavioral Scientists Episode 81: How to Finally Change Your Behavior (So it Sticks) Episode 7: Change Management (It’s Still Not About The Cookie) Episode 107: How to Have Difficult Conversations About Race & Inequality: Interview with Kwame Christian Episode 149: Familiarity Bias: Why the Devil You Know Feels Safer Than the Devil You Don’t, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 46: Biases Toward Others – Including Groups Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 150: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 71: Prefactual Thinking: How to Turn “What If” Into “Why Not” – Behavioral Economics FoundationsPrefactual Thinking Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Check out What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today there is a very special interview taking place on the show, in that the person being interviewed is…me! And, no, it isn’t me asking myself questions. I guess that is kind of like every solo episode I’ve done or much weirder where I would speak about myself in the third person.  The interviewer today is Michael Bartlett. He is the Director of Experience Innovation at JMARK and also trains people to pass the Certified Customer Experience Exam (CCXP). We got connected because he is hooked on books. As an avid book junkie, he reviews many of them on his YouTube channel, called the "CCXP Exam Simulator." As he was prepping to do a review of my new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You, for his YouTube channel, he asked if I had considered having someone turn the tables a bit to interview me here on The Brainy Business. I said why not! As I’ve always found it much easier to answer questions about myself and an experience, than to just talk about it. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did! I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Show Notes: [00:38] Today there is a very special interview taking place on the show, in that the person being interviewed is…me! [01:03] The interviewer is Michael Bartlett. He is the Director of Experience Innovation at JMARK and also trains people to pass the Certified Customer Experience Exam (CCXP). [04:24] If you want to understand customers you have to understand how their minds work.  [04:52] Melina shares her journey and interest in behavioral economics.  [07:28] Fun fact: She is a classically trained opera singer and enjoys singing – this led to a big realization about a tendency toward perfectionism in life and business.  [09:58] It can really be one piece that is throwing everything else off just a little bit.  [11:47] Our brains will limit us and feel like you pushed too far. Your body can keep going but your mind feels like you should stop.  [12:34] How our brain can hold us back psychologically in sports also translates into business.  [12:46] Michael shares about his journey.  [14:13] Melina shares how and why The Brainy Business came about. She was writing blogs for entrepreneurs and editing books as a side hustle.  [16:32] When they moved, she had a unique opportunity to really just focus on school for her master’s degree and building a new type of business around behavioral economics.  [19:04] On May 19, 2018, after encouragement from a mastermind, Melina started to rebrand her company and launched the podcast with its first three episodes on July 6, 2018.  [20:13] Melina always knew she would have a book.  [21:53] She ended up finalizing her publisher in late May 2020 and the full manuscript was due at the end of August – a summer of writing!  [23:30] When reading the book, you can focus on the areas that really interest you or learn more about a particular subject. She also includes corresponding podcast episodes.  [25:03] She had an idea of some topics that needed to be in the book. She created it similar to a “choose your own adventure” book in the way that you can follow the parts that interest you most. Interconnectivity is so critical to how the brain works and that was important to reflect in the book’s format.  [26:06] She gives her readers the opportunity to make connections to jump around in a controlled environment. She is creating a course that will be available to purchase and go along with the book and go even deeper.  [28:24] At the end of the book, Melina gives a really good example of how you can chain these techniques altogether.  [30:01] Melina really wants her readers to use, apply, and do what they set out to do with the book.  [30:50] The most important thing for when you are going to get started is spending more time thinking about the problem. Taking the time to know what you are doing, why you are doing it, and why it matters is paramount.  [31:42] You can go and use behavioral economics and have a good impact within your business if you take the time to understand the concepts and how they can work together. Everything is a learning opportunity to grow. [32:21] There are times when you should reach out and find a partner, especially if it is a really big and critical project.  [33:32] Test small and test often.  [35:18] Melina shares the books that have inspired and impacted her.  [38:02] Melina shares her two recommendations of books to really dig into behavioral economics.  [39:23] First nugget Michael really liked from Melina’s new book was when she reminded everybody about the importance of first impressions and the mode people are in when they first encounter your business.  [39:46] Michael shares two quotes that were huge takeaways from Melina’s book.  [41:35] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [42:49] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is now available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! PLUS, get the free Companion Workbook for What Your Customer Wants within the community! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Buy Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Connect with Michael: Michael on YouTube Order your copy of What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have Dr. Katy Milkman joining me on the show. She has done so much amazing work over the years, some of which you have heard me share in episodes already, including the fresh start effect and temptation bundling, which as mentioned in last week’s episode with Jon Levy, is the most downloaded episode of the year to date.  I love her research and the insights she has been able to share with the world so far. As you’ll hear in today’s episode, Katy is an amazingly smart person who has a knack for finding links others may not have seen yet. She leads amazing teams of students at Wharton and works with Angela Duckworth on the Behavior Change for Good Initiative, she is also the host of the Choiceology podcast, and her brand new book, How To Change, just came out this week.  Show Notes: [00:07] In today’s episode I’m very excited to introduce you to Dr. Katy Milkman, author of the new book How To Change. [01:18] She leads amazing teams of students at Wharton and works with Angela Duckworth on the Behavior Change for Good Initiative. She is also the host of the Choiceology podcast, and her brand new book, How To Change, just came out this week. [03:34] Katy shares about her background and who she is. [05:35] Melina and Katy discuss the foreword of Katy’s new book written by Angela Duckworth (you won’t believe what she said!).  [07:53] Katy shares about her fresh start research and how it all started.  [09:11] There are moments throughout our lives that feel like new beginnings. New Years’ feels like a new beginning, but you can also have other new beginnings.  [10:34] Their research on fresh starts and the power of those moments to change our motivation and therefore our ability to make an impact for the better on our lives is the biggest ah-ha for Katy from her research.  [12:44] The fresh start research took about two years from the first conversation to the publication. It was quick because the findings weren’t subtle. (Katy and Melina discuss the differing timelines in academia and business.) [14:33] They had some results and it was clear what they had learned within a few months, but the insights and documenting of the results usually takes the longest.  [15:45] Katy shares another favorite research project she was part of about making people grittier.  [17:38] Instead of giving poorly performing students advice, they flipped the script and put them in the position to be the advice-givers to underclassmen.  [19:01] When people are asked for advice, it improves their motivation to achieve in that domain.  [20:56] There is this huge power in recognizing that when you coach others you are helping yourself.  [23:21] Too often we don’t take the time to figure out what is the actual barrier to change. [24:10] It is important to make sure you are not solving the wrong problem before you deploy your solution. [25:53] 9% of premature deaths in the world are due to inadequate physical activity. If we can figure these behavior change problems, we can really save lives. [26:48] 40% of premature deaths due to decisions that could be changed. This is a really big opportunity for impact, but it all starts with recognizing one of the challenges any individual is having.  [28:41] If I have this problem. I know a lot of people struggle with this as well. I am going to figure out the why for all of us and how we might change it and make it better. It can help you change everything by looking at it in a positive way.  [30:26] Katy shares one of the most frustrating findings of her career. A ton of things did work, but it didn’t create lifelong change. [33:23] It is important to have a reasonable goal with behavior change.  [34:52] If you want to create durable change, it has to be a durable commitment and durable solutions instead of something temporary.  [36:42] It can be really disruptive to have a fresh start if things are going really well. It is really hard to hold on and keep making progress.  [38:46] If we want to change we have to remain vigilant.  [39:27] Katy and Melina share their love for Harry Potter. [42:30] Check out the Harry Potter audiobooks. They are SO amazing!  [44:09] Mindset has a huge impact on what we can achieve.  [47:05] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [48:31] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. (NEXT WEEK!!!) Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution – our free behavioral economics community, and keep the conversation going! More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by our guest, Katy Milkman Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance by Angela Duckworth Connect with Katy:  Katy’s Website Behavior Change for Good Initiative Katy on Twitter Katy on LinkedIn Past Episodes: Harry Potter Goodness Episode 136: Temptation Bundling: A Simple Trick to Reach Your Goals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 81: How to Finally Change Your Behavior (So it Sticks) Episode 39: Expect Error: The “E” in NUDGES: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 40: Give Feedback: The “G” in NUDGES: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 18: Priming: Why You Should Never Have A Difficult Conversation With Someone Holding An Iced Coffee: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 4: Questions or Answers Episode 63: How To Set Up Your Own Experiments Episode 110: Survivorship Bias: Stop Missing What’s Missing (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 34: Optimism Bias: The Good And The Bad Of Those Rose-Colored Glasses: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 150: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Check out (and preorder!) What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have Jon Levy and I am also very excited for our big milestone. This is the 150th episode of The Brainy Business podcast. Can you believe it? We now have well over 350,000 downloads in more than 170 countries (thank you, everyone, for tuning in and sharing with your friends!). You are going to learn so much interesting stuff from this conversation, I absolutely loved chatting with Jon. It’s no wonder with all the practice he has had amazing interactions with some of the most accomplished and diverse people on the planet: Grammy award winners, Nobel laureates, editors in chief, Olympic gold medalists, actors. You name it and they have probably accepted an invitation to dinner at Jon’s place. You can learn all about how he has done this and the true genius behind these fantastic interactions and getting to really know and trust people in our conversation today. Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m very excited to introduce you to Jon Levy, author of the new book You’re Invited. [02:07] The most downloaded episode of the year so far was episode number 136 on temptation bundling (fitting, since Dr. Katy Milkman will be here next week to discuss her new book! Link below). [04:39] Jon and Melina’s books are coming out on the same day, May 11th. Funny bundling ideas. :) [06:40] Jon shares about his background and some of his favorite studies.  [08:41] He spends most of his life on the application of research. There is so much we have learned about human behavior, but we very rarely use it.  [09:46] Jon shares his experiences with inviting accomplished strangers to his house for dinner.  [12:01] His objective was to bring people together and bond them in hopes that it will improve their lives and hopefully they could have a larger impact on society.  [14:16] The more novel something is, the more we are enticed to explore and understand it.  [15:33] Because of the IKEA effect, they knew if they could get people to assemble, build, or work together on something, they will bond more with each other and care about the company.  [17:23] Applied behavioral science and academic behavioral science both have their places and they are both really important.  [20:07] You don’t want to be a sponsor. You want to be a partner.  [21:20] Be a partner on two things that people will really remember instead of 10 random sponsorships. It is going to be so much more valuable and impactful over time.  [24:07] In the beginning Jon started by inviting the people he knew that were very impressive and then he kept asking for recommendations. After some time, he did hire a research team to find people to invite.  [25:37] The key is understanding what are the behaviors or interests of the general group you want to invite.  [28:26] If you can curate an environment with other high-profile people they will go far out of their way to attend.  [29:18] It is this opportunity to meet interesting people, a novel experience, and something that is generous so they don’t have to be worried that you are after anything.  [31:34] As a general rule, they have one person per industry, a maximum of two.  [32:37] At the dinners, they can’t talk about their work so they end up having the kind of conversations that you have with your best friends. These conversations are a bit more vulnerable or intimate in your life.  [34:14] Researchers in general view trust as being made up of three things: competence, honesty, and benevolence. Though they are not equally weighted. We value benevolence more than honesty, and honesty more than competence. (Unfortunately, businesses hire people the exact opposite way - shift this practice to stand out and have a better team.)  [36:27] By leveraging the IKEA effect these vulnerability loops happen quickly. We need to be on the lookout for people sending out vulnerability loop signals. [37:07] Trust does not precede vulnerability. We have to be willing to put ourselves out there if we want to have profound trust.  [38:45] Because of loss aversion we feel twice as much pain for when something doesn’t work out as the pleasure of when it does. [41:09] Networking evokes feelings of being dirty because it is not a natural way for people to connect. Instead, we want to look at how we make friends.  [41:57] Usually, shared interests or connections cause people to be friends. Participate in joint activities you actually enjoy.  [44:27] Melina share’s about quarantine activities with her family. Fun quips about Mjolnir. (Bonus points if you know what that means without looking it up! Hint: Marvel.) [45:38] Relationships will really define the quality of your life. Be willing to be a little bit vulnerable.  [47:33] When you have an activity as the social catalyst, it feels significantly less awkward.  [50:44] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [52:16] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021.  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Get the Books Mentioned on (or related to) this Episode: You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence by our guest, Jon Levy Speed of Trust: The One Thing That Changes Everything by Stephen M. R. Covey The Life-Saving Skill of Story: The Life-Saving Skill of Story (Resilience) by Michelle Auerbach Influence PEOPLE: Powerful Everyday Opportunities to Persuade that are Lasting and Ethical by Brian Ahearn The Behaviour Business: How to apply behavioural science for business success by Richard Chataway How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be by Katy Milkman Connect with Jon:  Jon’s Website Jon on Instagram Jon on Twitter Past Episodes: (MAKE THIS COLUMN 2) Episode 148: The Speed and Economics of Trust, an Interview with Stephen M.R. Covey Episode 23: Reciprocity: Give A Little, Get A Lot Episode 54: Biases Toward Novelty and Stories Episode 145: The Power of Story, an Interview with Dr. Michelle Auerbach Episode 112: The IKEA Effect and Effort Heuristic, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 97: Peak-End Rule: Why Averages Don’t Always Matter (A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode) Episode 60: Surprise and Delight Episode 8: What is Value? Episode 144: Disney: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 123: Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 9: Loss Aversion: Why Getting New Stuff Is Not The Same: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 142: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 133: The Best of The Brainy Business in 2020 Episode 135: Using Behavioral Science in Healthcare, Interview with Aline Holzwarth Episode 132: Decision Fatigue, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 136: Temptation Bundling: A Simple Trick to Reach Your Goals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Check out (and preorder!) What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today we will be talking all about familiarity bias. Sometimes on the show, I share concepts with you that are a bit foreign. Like one of my all-time favorites in hyperbolic time discounting or even something like “choice architecture” which can sound a little intimidating. Others are like the topic of today’s show. Familiarity bias is less scary because...it’s familiar! It’s a term that is a bit like a warm hug, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t things for you to learn. This is a bias that can serve you well in life and business but it also often steers people wrong. So it is important to know how it works, and what to be on the lookout for on both the positive and negative sides. Show Notes: [00:07] Today’s behavioral economics foundations episode is about familiarity bias. [02:30] The subconscious brain makes decisions using rules of thumb based on predictability. It likes to know what is coming next so it can keep the reins which means it has a strong bias toward things it is familiar with. [04:03] What matters is knowing that the more people become familiar with things, the more likely they are to prefer them; to have a bias toward them. [04:22] Studies have shown that our bias toward the familiar can make it so we make worse bets, that we invest in the wrong things, that we will be more likely to hold out in jobs that we have outgrown or keep pouring money into projects we should have let go of.  [05:49] That new job opportunity or relationship or project or apartment or whatever else is presenting itself will probably be scary at first, but that doesn’t mean it is bad or wrong. Embrace the feeling and jump in knowing that soon it will be like that song you hated the first time you heard it. [07:54] Eventually, and much faster than you think, this will become familiar—the new normal. You will adjust. Look at how so many people adjusted to working from home or wearing masks during the pandemic. [09:07] Is there a “way you’ve always done things” that feels like you can’t change it but might just be familiarity bias?  [09:48] Awareness of familiarity bias can help you ask that question when you feel hesitant to take a step in a new direction. [11:59] Don’t be afraid to reuse an ad a few times, people might like it more as they continue to see it. [13:47] You don’t have to constantly feel the pressure to reinvent the wheel.  If something worked, keep doing it! Maybe you want to do a slight tweak to see if you can improve on a good thing, but if it ain’t broke, don’t throw it out and start on something new.  [15:43] It’s ok to prioritize an important project now and let something else that is doing fine sit on the shelf a little longer. It may be becoming familiar and making your customers like it (and you) even more with time. [16:58] Some things are not going to benefit you if you change them up. They could actually be a detriment.   [17:40] When you are feeling like you’ve done something a few times so people must be getting bored with it and they’ll leave if you don’t do something new and fresh, remind your conscious brain that people like familiarity!   [18:09] If you have anyone, customers or team members (or family members!) who hate the idea of a change and fight or resist at first, give it a little time to let familiarity bias set in. [19:21] What do you have in your business that is best to keep familiar for your customers? [19:48] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business:   🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Apply now to join the book launch team (and read it before anyone else!)    Past Episodes and Other Resources: Episode 51: Time Discounting: The I’ll Start Monday Effect – My Favorite Concept!: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 35: NUDGES & Choice Architecture: Introducing Nobel-Winning Concepts: A Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 142: Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying Episode 144: Disney: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Episode 147: What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You: All About Melina’s First Book Preference and Belief: Ambiguity and Competence in Choice under Uncertainty Ambiguity aversion and familiarity bias: Evidence from behavioral and gene association studies Familiarity Bias PART I: What is it? What Is the Average Rate of Return on a Direct Mail Campaign? Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to have Stephen M. R. Covey with us on the show today.  In case his name sounds familiar, it’s because his father Dr. Stephen Covey wrote The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People—one of the best known and most highly acclaimed business books of all time. And his son (our guest) has done some very amazing things in his career as well, living on that family legacy of greatness. As president and CEO of Covey Leadership Center, Stephen nearly doubled revenues while increasing profits by 12 times. During that period, the company expanded throughout the world into over 40 countries, greatly increasing the value of the brand and enterprise. The company was valued at $2.4 million when Stephen was named CEO, and, within three years, he had grown shareholder value to $160 million in a merger he orchestrated with Franklin Quest to form FranklinCovey. His book The Speed of Trust: The One Thing That Changes Everything, has sold more than 2 million copies and is a fantastic read. While it isn’t specifically naming concepts of behavioral economics, as you’ll hear in the episode it is very well rooted in that space. Today Stephen will share his “economics of trust” equation plus a bonus qualitative measure of trust that didn’t make it into the book. (Stick around until the end to hear that.) He also touches on some of the 13 behaviors that lead to great trust, so it is all about the behavior and economics of trust.  Show Notes: [00:08] In today’s episode I’m very excited to introduce you to Stephen M.R. Covey to discuss his book, The Speed of Trust. [02:35] Stephen will share with you his “economics of trust” equation plus a bonus qualitative measure of trust that didn’t make it into the book [04:47] Stephen shares about himself and his father.   [06:25] He has a feeling of stewardship and responsibility to try to carry on his father’s legacy and the great work he has done. He is very proud of his heritage.  [08:41] In his case there was somewhat a transference of trust from his father to him, but not completely. He had to earn it as well.   [10:20] Stephen shares his experience with a large group of naysayers in the merger and how trust made it work.  [11:49] There is a risk to get real and be transparent, but there is a greater risk of not doing it.  [12:31] The power of going first—of being transparent and vulnerable—invites reciprocity back. The vast majority reciprocate and that is powerful.   [15:40] The key to influence is to first be influenced. In the words of his father, “Seek first to understand and then to be understood.” [16:27] Understanding is not necessarily agreement. If people feel understood they feel much more open to your influence.   [17:29] Trust affects everything. Trust is also learnable as a skill.  [18:50] Trust always affects two measurable outcomes: speed and cost. When the trust goes down in any relationship in an environment you will always find that the speed goes down with it and the cost goes up. That is a low-trust tax.  [19:56] When the trust goes up in a relationship, the speed goes up and the cost comes down. That is a high-trust dividend.   [22:34] Stephen shares a few illustrations of the speed of trust from his book.   [23:24] Client referrals offer a transference of trust.   [26:31] Nothing is as fast as the speed of trust. Nothing is as profitable as the economics of trust.   [28:21] The cost of distrust is very real. The speed goes down and the cost comes up.  [31:19] Smart trust is having your propensity to trust and balancing that with your analysis. Start with the heart and you will see possibilities you would never see otherwise. Then balance that with your head.  [33:46] The vast majority of people respond well to being trusted and they rise to the occasion. They perform better, develop capabilities, and reciprocate by giving the trust back to you.  [36:02] Most leaders can be far more trusting than they are being. Our big challenge is that we are not trusting enough.  [37:47] There is actually more control in a high trust culture than there is in a rules-based culture.  [39:02] Two great practices are to declare your intent and assume positive intent as a starting point. Be trusting as well as trustworthy.  [41:19] It can help you build trust enormously well and fast to have a process for accountability upfront.   [43:01] Energy and joy are the two keys on the qualitative side. When the trust goes up in a relationship, the energy and joy in all forms go up with it.  [45:01] In high trust cultures people are more energized, more engaged, less stressed, and less burned out.  [47:13] Inspiration is the new engagement.  Inspired employees are far more productive than engaged employees.  [47:49] To be trusted is the most inspiring form of human motivation. It brings us the very best in all of us.   [49:44] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [51:01] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business:   🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Apply now to join the book launch team (and read it before anyone else!)  Get the Books Mentioned on this Episode: Speed of Trust: The One Thing That Changes Everything By Stephen M.R. Covey The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People By Stephen R. Covey Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life By Nir Eyal FRICTION―The Untapped Force That Can Be Your Most Powerful Advantage By Roger Dooley Connect with Stephen:  Speed of Trust Website Stephen on Twitter Stephen on LinkedIn Past Episodes:  Episode 78: How to Become Indistractible, Interview With Author Nir Eyal Episode 72: Friction – What It Is And How To Reduce It, with Roger Dooley Episode 87: Social Proof: How to Use Herding to Boost Engagement and Sales Episode 21: Habits: 95% Of Decisions Are Habitual – Which Side Is Your Business On? Episode 23: Reciprocity: Give A Little, Get A Lot Episode 102: Confirmation Bias: How Your Subconscious Beliefs Shape Your Experiences Episode 46: Biases Toward Others – Including Groups Episode 92: Fundamental Attribution Error: Why the Pot Insists on Calling the Kettle Black Episode 32: The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making Episode 62: Game Theory: Life And Business Are A Game…Do You Know The Rules? Episode 15: Availability: Why People Are More Likely To Get Flood Insurance Right After a Flood Episode 19: Herding: Come On And Listen…Everyone Else Is Doing It Episode 16: Framing: How You Say Things Matter More Than What You’re Saying Episode 112: The IKEA Effect and Effort Heuristic, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

I can hardly believe the topic of this episode! It has been such a long time in the making and I’m so honored and overjoyed to be able to share this with you. My first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You, is coming out and will be available in the world starting May 11, 2021 in the US and shortly thereafter around the world. This book has been a labor of love and I am so unbelievably ready for it to be out in your hands!  In this episode, I will let you know what to expect when you get your copy of the book, why I wrote it, and some behind-the-scenes details from the process.  Show Notes: [00:08] Today’s episode is a sneak peek at my brand new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You. [02:29] I’ve known for a long time that I want to write a book (many books if I’m honest...so expect more in the future!). I would say that I have been pretty actively pursuing the process of getting an agent and a publisher since late 2018 when the podcast was really gaining some good traction. [04:04] A behind the scenes look of how I found my publisher. [04:47] The next step was to finalize the best approach to my first book, and it was determined that going with a format that is very much in line with what you have come to know and love here on the podcast: what behavioral economics is, why it matters, and how to start applying it in business. [06:29] Smart brands work with the subconscious mind of the customer, and can uncover things people didn’t even know how to articulate for themselves. These are our favorite brands, the ones that change the world because they are so perfect people can’t help but fall in love with them. [07:30] Now with the power of behavioral economics we can understand the science of why people buy. There are business case studies and academic research among many fields and two Nobel prizes paving the way for businesses to use a recipe of sorts to begin applying this themselves. [09:08] Existing books from the field were either too mainstream or too focused for people in business to use for application. I saw this space in the middle (and knew it existed from the thousands of you around the world who love The Brainy Business podcast). [10:04] There was a gap, and so I have filled it with this book. That’s why I wrote What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You. To give a practical how-to guide that you can actually use to start applying behavioral economics in business and uplevel your career. It is backed by tons of research, interviews, and my own experience over the years as an applied behavioral economist. [11:31] It is conversational and fun to read so you will retain what you learn and keep going through the material while giving you the insights you need to start using the information.  [11:50] This book is not meant to sit on a shelf collecting dust. It isn’t a one and done. It is created to make it really easy for you to use again and again, project after project.  [12:03] There is a free PDF workbook that goes along with the book you can download off my website (which will come out when the book does in May) with all sorts of tactics and ways to use the insights beyond what could fit in the book. [13:05] It matters to me that everyone around the world has access to the awesomeness that is behavioral economics AND that they can start using it in a way that will get them results. [13:54] This book was carefully curated into four parts, which are intentionally presented in a specific order.  [14:01] Part one helps you see your brain differently, to know how it really works, and be open to learning.  [14:33] Part two is dedicated to the concepts that are most applicable in business. [15:34] At the end of each of these chapters you will find some tips and a prompt to start applying the information yourself. There is also information on the corresponding episodes of the podcast so you can go learn more about each concept, AND there is a section letting you know where you will see that particular concept come up again in part three of the book. [16:14] The concepts you will find in part two of the book are framing, priming, anchoring & adjustment, relativity, loss aversion, scarcity, herding, social proof, nudges and choice architecture, the paradox of choice, partitioning, the pain of paying, surprise and delight, the peak-end rule, habits, and reciprocity. [17:38] Part three builds upon the foundations (concepts) from the previous section and shows how they can be combined in various ways to get incredible results for businesses. [19:00] Similar to the experience in part two, each chapter ends with a list of the concepts that were included within the stories or information in that chapter, so you can easily reference back to them as you begin the application process using the prompts provided. [20:30] Part four is what helps this book be more than an interesting read. It shares some of your brain’s biases and tricks that are there to keep you feeling safe but keep you stuck when you actually want to change. [21:22] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. [23:02] Thank you so much to everyone who has already preordered. It has been awesome to see traction already. The book has hit #1 new release status in multiple categories on Amazon including market research business books and business encyclopedias, many weeks before it is even available which is so cool. At one point so far it was in the top 25,000 books selling on Amazon of the nearly 50 million they have there, which is amazing. [23:39] Thank you to the early readers and supporters.  [24:11] What an amazing ride it’s been getting this book ready. I can’t wait for you to receive yours and to hear what you think! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 More details about the book (and to get that PDF workbook when it’s available) Get your free chapter of What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You Why Behavioral Economics? Past Episodes: Episode 69: Management Mess To Leadership Success, an Interview with Scott Miller, EVP of Thought Leadership at FranklinCovey Episode 72: Friction – What It Is And How To Reduce It, with Roger Dooley Episode 78: How to Become Indistractible, Interview With Author Nir Eyal Check out (and preorder!) What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am so excited to have Kwame Christian back on the show. Kwame was first on the show back in July of 2020 in episode 107. There aren’t a lot of repeat guests on the show because there are so many people out there I want to talk to and share with you; I am constantly trying to find new voices to bring on.  That being said, I had to have Kwame back for a few reasons.  For one thing, we have become friends over this past year and I know how much fun he is to talk to and such a wealth of information. When he came on the show we talked about having difficult conversations around race and inequality, which was influenced by the Black Lives Matter movement, the death of George Floyd, and other horrible events that started coming to a greater light in spring 2020. While Kwame quickly became a prominent voice in that space, it isn’t his main focus or real area of genius. While prepping to have Kwame guest lecture for a class I recently taught on internal communication and change management at Texas A&M, I saw that he had a guide about using anchoring as a tool in negotiation and it was a clear opportunity to have him back to talk about his truest expertise – negotiation techniques.  Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m so excited to have Kwame Christian back on the show, a rare repeat guest, to talk about using anchoring in negotiations. [03:02] Kwame is the director of the American Negotiation Institute and host of the #1 negotiation podcast in the world, Negotiate Anything, which has over 2 million downloads in more than 180 countries. [05:27] At the American Negotiation Institute they do negotiation trainings and business consulting.  [08:30] Kwame has a background in psychology.  [08:47] Kwame’s philosophy for life is that the best things in life are on the other side of difficult conversations. His goal is to make these difficult conversations easier so you can live the best version of your life.  [09:04] Negotiation is a life philosophy that we filter every life conversation through. He thinks of every conversation in terms of a negotiation.  [11:39] There is a bias where we think that negotiation has to be adversarial. It doesn’t need to be that way.  [12:00] Negotiation is any time you are in a conversation and somebody in the conversation wants something. The people that you negotiate with the most are the people closest to you.  [14:24] In every situation somebody wants something even if it is just to be heard or understood.  [15:14] If you think of a conversation as a negotiation then you are going to be more explicit with your desires and invite the other person to share what it is they want out of the interaction.  [17:31] Any interaction (even when money doesn’t exchange hands), you are still trying to sell someone an idea that you need them to buy in on.  [18:06] Anchoring is the most powerful negotiation technique. You should always try to use it in some capacity.  [18:31] Anchoring with the most aggressive request that you can reasonably justify.  [21:02] If you have as much information or more information then you make the first offer because then you are in a position to create a competent anchor. If you have less information then you let them make the first offer and then you counter them.  [22:56] There are some glaring mistakes you can make if you anchor without having enough information.  [25:08] We need to be able to distinguish between rejection and resistance.  [27:58] The things you say have an impact. You want to calibrate that impact for maximum impact.  [29:57] Negotiation Genius talks about how to play defense when someone else anchors you.  [31:20] Anchoring plays a huge role in our psychology and if we don’t recognize it we are going to do things that have a subtle impact on the subconscious of the person on the other side.  [33:37] Negotiating the agenda is one of the most important negotiations that does not occur.  [36:23] You have to be more mindful about what you are trying to accomplish.  [37:42] It is helpful to know what the person you are negotiating with cares about most.  [40:01] We have to ask questions and learn as much as we can so that we can try to solve the right problems.  [40:44] Assertiveness is taken differently depending on who you are. The way you frame something may be different depending on your gender.  [42:37] We have to play in the world we live in, but we can be doing things on the side to try and change them in the future.  [43:19] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [45:05] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Apply now to join the book launch team (and read it before anyone else!)    Get the Books Mentioned on this Episode: Finding Confidence in Conflict: How to Negotiate Anything and Live Your Best Life by Kwame Christian Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Negotiation Genius: How to Overcome Obstacles and Achieve Brilliant Results at the Bargaining Table and Beyond by Deepak Malhotra Women Don't Ask: Negotiation and the Gender Divide by Linda Babcock and Sara Laschever Ask For It: How Women Can Use the Power of Negotiation to Get What They Really Want by Linda Babcock and Sara Laschever Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead by Sheryl Sandberg Connect with Kwame:  American Negotiation Institute Negotiate Anything Podcast How to Combat Confirmation Bias with Melina Palmer Ask with Confidence Podcast Ultimate Negotiation Guide Past Episodes:  Episode 11: Anchoring  Episode 107: Interview with Kwame Christian Episode 16: Framing Episode 12: Relativity Episode 9: Loss Aversion Episode 18: Priming Episode 32: Overwhelmed Brain Episode 23: Reciprocity Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia

Today I am very excited to introduce you to Dr. Michelle Auerbach. She and I met a few weeks back by an introduction from another podcast where we had both recently been guests, and it was clear we had a lot in common. When we had our “getting to know you” conversation I learned that Michelle’s work was all about the power of story (while I happened to be working on the curriculum for my upcoming class on Creating BEtter Presentations using behavioral economics and story for Texas A&M University. (Register here) During the conversation, we touch on several concepts that have their own past episodes, including those on the novelty and stories, nudges, framing, status quo bias, DOSE brain chemicals, and many more. Show Notes: [00:06] In today’s episode I’m excited to introduce you to Dr. Michelle Auerbach, author of Resilience: The Life-Saving Skill of Story. [01:59] Emotion is needed to make decisions, and stories evoke emotions. [03:48] Two days ago Dr. Auerbach defended her dissertation. (Congratulations!) [05:08] Story has always been an enormous part of Michelle’s life.    [07:14] She wanted to do change management in an organization because it is a place where all of the wisdom we’ve handed down shows up and helps people in their real everyday lives.   [09:09] Story does four really important change tasks.  [10:07] Story moves stuff from your short-term memory across to your long-term memory and allows you to hold on to information. It also allows you to see possibilities that you wouldn’t see otherwise.   [11:40] Story is a biologically based mechanism for getting things done well.  [13:35] If you really focus on one great story, it has so much power behind it.   [15:16] Dopamine and Oxytocin create prosocial behavior.   [17:11] Hero's Journey is so complicated and has so many steps. If you do it right, you end up with the good stuff (but if you don’t have the time or devotion it could be a jumbled mess).   [18:36] Michelle shares her three-part story structure: set the stage for what is going on, describe the trouble, what you did about it, and the benefits.  [20:54] Tell us what is going on, take us on a little journey where we explore the things that we need to know, and then tell us what you came to.  [22:53] Story matters no matter where you are and you can tell stories in different ways.  [24:19] Allowing diversity in the ways stories are told is fabulous.    [26:03] If you are on a team with people from more than one culture have everyone tell one of their favorite stories from childhood.   [27:44] Helping the audience participate in shaping the experience will make it so they are more invested and more likely to want to move forward (IKEA Effect).   [28:38] If you have a very strong why and you can bring that into the room in a very tactile way people will spend the rest of the day leading from that place.  [29:17] Melina shares about story cubes (get your own with the link below!)   [31:02] It is the details that evoke feelings that make the story work. Anything you can do to add visuals to storytelling is a really good idea because it helps to evoke feelings in another way.   [33:47] To be able to use a biological-based system for talking about it allows people to have better conversations, be more open, and feel more grounded while they are doing it.  [35:11] Story listening is important too. You can evoke good stories from people in a way that is healing to the people telling the stories.   [36:54] Decision making is impossible without feeling and stories evoke feeling.  If you need people to make a decision in the room, you need to be telling stories along with the data you are giving.  [38:07] Storytelling definitely gets people over the hump of overvaluing their current state and undervaluing the change.  [39:03] Start by listening to other people’s stories and hear what you like and what doesn’t work for you. What is really possible for you? [40:18] Ask the three story questions: What was going on? What did you do about it? What happened? [42:23] If you say this is what was going on, this is what I did about it, and this is what happened to me, people wonder what would have happened for them and start to take it in more deeply instead of saying you're supposed to feel this way about this thing.  [44:53] Simple and positive nudges can have a huge impact on behavior.   [47:05] Everybody can be a great storyteller.   [50:01] Melina shares her closing thoughts.  [51:32] Melina’s first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia. Buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business:   🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia 🎉🎉🎉 Apply now to join the book launch team (and read it before anyone else!)    Get the Books & Tools Mentioned on this Episode: Resilience: The Life-Saving Skill of Story by professor Michelle Auerback The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable by Patrick Lencioni Story Cubes Past Episodes and Other Important Links: You Better Behave! - Melina is the MC for this free virtual masterclass - join us March 31! Michelle’s Website Michelle on LinkedIn Modaka Communications Michelle on Instagram Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab Certificate Program Creating BEtter Presentations Change Management Framing Novelty & Stories Priming Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals Mirror Neurons IKEA Effect Interview with Kwame Christian Availability Overview of Personal Biases Biases Toward Others – Including Groups Status Quo Bias Interview with Michael Schein Expect Error Give Feedback Disney Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository, and Booktopia If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!

It has been over a year since there was a company analysis episode on the show and they are coming back by popular demand! In addition to this episode about the happiest place (and perhaps the most magical company) on earth, there are behavioral economics analysis episodes on Apple Card, Costco, Peloton, and Starbucks (which quickly rose through the ranks to become the third most downloaded episode of all time) here on The Brainy Business. Links to all those (and so much more) below. Disney is such a massive company this episode could have gone in a lot of different ways (and I would guess it won’t be the last time you hear me talk about Disney on the show). Today is mostly focused on traditional Disney: amusement parks, movies, and a bit about Disney+. I’ll go through a whole bunch of concepts from behavioral economics that I see them using/leveraging in their work, and explain what you can learn from Disney in your business. Show Notes: [02:10] It is important to acknowledge that Disney is a massive organization with many, many facets and paths I could have taken this episode down. I would be willing to bet that there could be an entire podcast that is exclusively dedicated to the behavioral science of Disney and it would not run out of content.  [03:12] Knowing coronavirus has impacted their numbers, before the pandemic, they were reported as having 210,000 employees and revenue of about $60 billion. [03:23] That is before launching Disney+, which has been the most successful launch of a streaming service to date. In a little over a year, Disney+ is over halfway to being the largest streaming company in the world. [05:38] Their focus on innovation and always working to be better makes them stand out.  Among the 210,000 employees I mentioned earlier, there are over 20 behavioral scientists, along with hundreds of imagineers creating the amazing features and attractions around the parks and experiences throughout the world. [06:14] They have an incredible talent for balancing expectations with surprise and delight in this beautiful dance that works with the brain’s bias for the status quo. [07:11] If any of the things you expected of Disney were to change it would be a letdown and a negative experience. You would have negative dopamine because your expectations weren’t met and it can tarnish the brand. [07:57] These constant little tweaks and adaptations keep it fresh at Disney without being so different you lose the nostalgia factor and trigger ambiguity or uncertainty aversion. Enough remains the same to find that perfect balance of new and nostalgic. Because we have a bias for the familiar and love to share particularly great experiences with others, especially the next generation, it is important to keep some things static even over decades. [08:51] This embracing of nostalgia goes beyond the parks. Their movies and merchandise build on this concept as well. [11:12] Our brains love a little novelty and Disney incorporates theirs along with the IKEA effect. [11:36] Disney has little surprises throughout their parks. For example, the hidden Mickeys around Disneyland and Disney World–reportedly about 1000 per park. [12:19] Disney also does a great job of putting little “easter eggs” in their movies, particularly in its subsidiary brands. [13:36] Those little wins that help you feel smart also help you shape your experience with the brand. You look for little hidden gems and get to be part of the magic. [14:45] Being part of the fun and shaping the experience makes people like it more, and in Disney’s case, it is also a great way to sell lots of other merchandise. [15:57] Scarcity creates buzz and excitement, we herding humans love to follow the crowd and if we see some social proof that an item is popular AND in short supply we can’t help but get excited. [16:40] Having others spread the word about you and create their own fan version of your creations is another great reflection of how much people love Disney. [18:27] Really thinking through those experiences, caring that much, is a gift (reciprocity), and one that people repay Disney with by being loyal fans of the entire organization.  [20:08] When there is something to DO it is easier to forget about how long you are waiting (combating idleness aversion). [21:19] Turning that line into a dopamine generating anticipation-building experience is a great way to make it so we end up loving the thing we probably would have thought we would hate! That anticipation is made possible by making the experience fun and getting people excited about what is to come.  [22:35] Our brains love that little tease and waiting to see if something is going to live up to our expectations, we will hype it up in our brains while waiting to see what happens. [23:25] Some of the guiding principles at Disney include Mickey’s 10 Commandments. Think of these as a handbook or a set of value statements. [24:58] When you expect error (a key concept of nudging) and think about all the ways to make it easy for people to not get stuck, it can make for a much better overall experience. [26:08] Consider the simple frame of being “the happiest place on earth” or “where dreams come true.” This frame works as a prime for the experience people have with the brand. It’s a very simple tactic, but hugely important. Not only does it shape the customer experience, but it can shape the employee experience as well. [27:21] Going through a process of making the impossible possible means a lot of variety from one project to the next, so they leave lots of room to let each project have a flexible approach. However, because there is some framework needed, they have a set of questions to help guide every project. [29:29] Asking great questions adds to that thoughtfulness and makes your entire brand experience different. [30:35] Disney starts with a great story and then says, “What can we build around that story?” It might be content or an experience or merchandise, but it is secondary to that tale we love. [31:57] Know what you are about, why you exist, and how you are creating value in the world, then look for ways to incorporate that brain friendliness to make the best possible experience. [32:25] Asking great questions adds to that thoughtfulness and makes your entire brand experience different. [33:19] My first book, What Your Customer Wants and Can’t Tell You is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble order yours today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell You) on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble 🎉🎉🎉 Master Your Mindset Mini-Course Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution - use code BRAINY to save 10% Get the Books Mentioned on this Episode: Ripple: The big effects of small behaviour changes in business, by Jez Groom & April Vellacott Choice Hacking: How to use psychology and behavioral science to create an experience that sings, by Jennifer Clinehens Past Episodes and Other Important Links: You Better Behave! - Melina is the MC for this free 6-hour virtual masterclass - join us March 31! The Psychology Behind Disney’s “10 Commandments” for Experience Design The Science Hiding in Mickey's Pixie Dust Disney Proves That Profitable Marketing Is About Brand Stories Be Like Disney: Why You Should Embrace Imagineering Principles in Branding 10 Examples of Great Disney Marketing Campaigns Disney-Themed Celebrity Portraits By Annie Leibovitz How Disney Built An Empire By Designing Brand Experience 5 Reasons Why Disney+ Is Breaking Records While Making History Disney Plus to Increase Prices in Early 2021, Eyes Up to 260M Subscribers by End of 2024 9 Reasons People Keep Going Back to Walt Disney World Why are so many adults obsessed with Disney theme parks? Throwback Thursday: What a Disney Princess Used To Be Magic Moments: What can the retail industry learn from Disney? What Companies Does Disney Own? Disney says it now has 94.9 million Disney+ subscribers Experience By Design Is there a secret city under Walt Disney World? Here's an upside-down Mickey at the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad in Frontierland Starbucks: A Behavioral Economics Analysis A Behavioral Economics Analysis of Costco Apple Card: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Peloton: A Behavioral Economics Analysis Interview with Jennifer Clinehens Why Our Brains Love Nostalgia & Traditions Herding Social Proof Framing Priming Peak-End Rule Loss Aversion Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals Habits Surprise and Delight Status Quo Bias IKEA Effect Questions or Answers Scarcity Reciprocity NUDGES & Choice Architecture The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!