The Brainy Business | Understanding the Psychology of Why People Buy | Behavioral Economics

Melina Palmer
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Mar 12, 2021 • 55min

143. The Hype Handbook, an Interview with Author Michael F. Schein

Do you think that hyping up yourself or your business is a good thing, or does it feel a little shady to you? Join me in this episode of The Brainy Business as I interview Michael F. Schein, author of the book The Hype Handbook: 12 Indispensable Success Secrets from the World's Greatest Propagandists, Self-Promoters, Cult Leaders, Mischief Makers, and Boundary Breakers, who, among many other topics, discusses his take on that and how he personally believes hype to be a good thing. After Michael featured The Brainy Business in Psychology Today as the #1 psychology podcast that every businessperson should listen to, he was also kind enough to send me an advanced copy of The Hype Handbook, which is full of great stories across history and different disciplines. I read the book and loved it and couldn't wait to talk with him on this podcast about the 12 ways businesses can use hype to find their audiences and create a dedicated following. In today’s episode, Michael offers invaluable tips and advice such as positioning yourself against ideas with which you disagree, packaging and branding yourself effectively, being confident in your own unique way, embracing theater and drama, using facts and figures in a way that is not boring, and so much more. We also touch upon topics that have been discussed in past episodes of The Brainy Business, such as herding, biases, framing, and many others. I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Time Stamps [0:00] – Introduction to this episode's guest, Michael F. Schein. [3:15] – Michael shares his background, explaining how he got into the business he's involved in now and why he wrote The Hype Handbook. [5:51] – Melina praises The Hype Handbook, pointing out that she loves the connections that it makes throughout history. [8:29] – Melina and Michael comment on the problem with trying to copy what others have done in that it's not going to be innovative when you do it. [10:48] – Michael explains why he used the word hype in his book title and what the word means to him, giving hip hop music as an example of something that has had to use hype to succeed. [13:18] – Melina mentions her favorite TED talk and talks about the importance of appreciating your first follower. [14:02] – Michael offers abstract art as an example of something that was generally hated when it first came out but is now so popular it’s almost mundane. [15:48] – Michael discusses the first strategy from the book – make war, not love – emphasizing that it's the foundation on which the other 11 strategies are built. [19:04] – Michael suggests positioning yourself against an idea that a lot of people seem to share in your industry, which you fundamentally disagree with (there are followers waiting for whomever is first to speak up). [20:10] – Michael shares Basecamp as an example of how positioning yourself against ideas works and is powerful. [22:56] – Melina points out that even though Basecamp is user friendly, some people do still prefer more complex systems. [24:15] – Michael expounds upon another one of his strategies – packaging and branding. [26:18] – We learn that we should focus on our weaknesses rather than our strengths and see if there is a way to turn the weaknesses into strengths. [28:47] – Melina and Michael agree that confidence in things such as pricing is crucial. [30:55] – Michael mentions his Psychology Today article in which he named The Brainy Business as the #1 psychology podcast businesspeople should listen to. [33:44] – Michael provides his insight on survivorship bias and the importance of hyping yourself up. [36:24] – Michael offers Tony Robbins as an example of someone who fits his strategy of embracing theater and drama. [38:14] – Michael explains his strategy of making things scientific and using facts and figures in an interesting way. [40:16] – Michael provides an example of branding yourself as an expert by using scientific lingo. [42:58] – Michael comments on behavioral economics and how Melina has made use of it using his first strategy: make war, not love. [45:01] – We learn about how Simon Sinek has used a simple slogan to sell his ideas. [47:27] – Michael further discusses Sinek and his video about millennials. [50:00] – We discover how we can connect with Michael online by joining HypeReads (and many more links in the list below) [51:28] – Melina encourages everyone to reflect on whether or not Michael's take on hype has changed how you think of it. [55:16] – Melina shares an interesting story about Michael’s serendipitous timing in reaching out as she completed her new book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell You). Now on presale – will you help spread the word? Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: Master Your Mindset Mini-Course BE Thoughtful Revolution - use code BRAINY to save 10% Get Your FREE ebook Melina’s John Mayer Pandora Station! Listen to what she listens to while working. Get the Books Mentioned on this Episode: The Hype Handbook Rework The Obstacle Is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph Start with Why Connect with Michael: HypeReads Microfame Media Michael on Twitter Michael on LinkedIn Past Episodes and Other Important Links: “21 Psychology Podcasts Every Businessperson Should Listen To” Derek Sivers - “How to Start a Movement” (TED Talk) Simon Sinek - “How Great Leaders Inspire Action” (TED Talk) Simon Sinek - “Millennials in the Workplace” Episode 19 - “Herding: Come on and Listen... Everyone Else Is Doing It” Episode 16 - “Framing: How You Say Things Matter More than What You're Saying” Episode 32 - “The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making” Episode 45 - “Overview of Personal Biases” Episode 110 - “Survivorship Bias: Stop Missing What's Missing” Episode 123 - “Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals” Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell You) on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!
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Mar 5, 2021 • 25min

142. Status Quo Bias: Why Change Feels Terrifying, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode

Today is all about status quo bias. This is perhaps one of the most foundational foundations there is. It truly is at the center of so many biases and heuristics the brain uses to make decisions, which is why you have heard me talk about it a lot on the show.  Most recently, I talked about this on episode 139 on the endowment effect, and that is because these two are commonly combined with loss aversion to come up with a “trifecta” that keeps us stuck. In today’s episode, I’ll go beyond explaining what status quo bias and why it is such a foundational foundation...and give you tips for how to be more effective personally, with colleagues, and the two ways to use it with customers (if you get it wrong it can mean a huge loss in conversions!) Show Notes: [00:41] Today we will be talking all about status quo bias which is perhaps one of the most foundational foundations there is. [02:34] First: a reminder of how the brain works. All our brains have a conscious and subconscious processing working concurrently all the time. [03:07] The subconscious is in charge 99% of the time. [03:52] The average person makes 35,000 decisions every single day. [04:52] The subconscious decides what is considered “normal” by using biases and heuristics (or rules of thumb). Things that have worked in the past that it believes apply to that specific situation by a millisecond choice. [05:29] Your brain wants to have as much as possible processed by your subconscious because it is more efficient. It uses less energy. It is faster and it thinks it knows best. Because the subconscious is a creature of habit and predictability, it isn’t surprising that it has a very strong bias for the status quo. [06:27] The status quo can change based on whatever we’ve become accustomed to and that can change greatly over time. [07:56] Now that the change is upon you, the stuff you know and are used to looks pretty darn good. [08:25] This feeling that the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t is inherent in choices we make every day to maintain that status quo. [08:55] Melina shares an interesting article in Psychology Today which talks about a thought experiment from two different angles. [11:49] What would you choose in each case? [13:13] Wanting to keep things the same or feeling immense stress or fear about the idea of starting something new doesn’t mean the old thing is better or that the new thing is worse or a bad decision. It just means that it is new, and you know that already! That is probably what drew you to the opportunity in the first place. [13:59] If you were looking to do something new and have done the due diligence, embrace that feeling as a good sign and move forward with confidence. It will become a habit before you know it and be a new status quo you can’t imagine living without. [15:36] The pandemic was a massive, forced shift in circumstance caused (essentially) everyone on earth to have their status quo bias shaken up in a way that we had to try new stuff to find a new normal. Solutions that were once unfathomable are now easy. [17:05] There are ways to work with the biases of the brain so they will be less impactful when presenting change. If you do that well, people will generally adjust to the new norm and establish a new bias toward that status quo. [19:12] It is very important to consider the context of your relationship with the customer when determining how to present information for them and which way to use status quo bias.  [20:26] The way you frame your message is really critical and a subtle shift in the way you talk about the status quo can be a huge swing in retention rates. [21:42] Don’t include too many choices or too much extra stuff, because, as I already said, when people get overwhelmed they are more likely to go with the status quo. [22:34] Recap: The first most important thing to remember is that status quo bias is a foundation for a reason. It is firmly rooted in the way our brains work and it will always be present. [22:58] When you are looking or planning for a change, know that the feeling of fear as you get close to pulling the trigger on it doesn’t mean you are on the wrong track. [24:27] I’m the closing keynote for the Y conference from the Insights Association taking place virtually on March 9 and 10. The tickets are very affordable and free to their members and corporate researchers, so go check it out with the link in the show notes. [24:45] It was also just announced that I will be the MC for the You Better Behave! Virtual masterclass taking place from 12:00-6:00 Eastern on March 31. This is also virtual and has keynotes from Nir Eyal and Tim and Kurt from Behavioral Grooves, as well as confirmed speakers from Bayer, Reebok, Nestle, and more. [25:37] My first book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell You) is officially on presale and available on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble so you can buy today and be one of the first to receive a copy when it officially launches May 11, 2021. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: 🎉🎉🎉 Preorder Melina’s new book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell You) on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble 🎉🎉🎉 Master Your Mindset Mini-Course Join the BE Thoughtful Revolution - use code BRAINY to save 10% Get the Books Mentioned on this Episode: Good Habits, Bad Habits by professor Wendy Wood Past Episodes and Other Important Links: The Y Conference - Melina is the closing keynote on March 10! Sign up today! You Better Behave! - Melina is the MC for this free virtual masterclass - join us March 31! Anomalies: The Endowment Effect, Loss Aversion, and Status Quo Bias Status Quo Bias in Decision Making What is Status Quo Bias in Sales and Marketing? How Powerful Is Status Quo Bias? Endowment Effect Loss Aversion Change Management Framing Habits: 95% Of Decisions Are Habitual The Power of Habit Interview with Wendy Wood Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!
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Feb 26, 2021 • 42min

141. Where CX and Behavioral Science Meet, interview with Jennifer Clinehens, author of Choice Hacking

Today I am so excited to introduce you to Jennifer Clinehens. She is currently CX Strategy Director at Havas CX Helia, London, where she uses behavioral science and psychology to improve the customer experience for brands like Lloyds Banking Group and Compare the Market. Jennifer has helped mold experiences with behavioral science for brands like McDonald's, AT&T, O2, and Adidas across the globe.  She is also the author of four books including the one we will be discussing today, Choice Hacking: How to use psychology and behavioral science to create an experience that sings, AND she has two different podcasts, Choice Hacking and Everybody Hates Your Brand. Wow, talk about a busy and productive person, amirite? I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Show Notes: [00:40] Today I am so excited to introduce you to Jennifer Clinehens. She is currently CX Strategy Director at Havas CX Helia, London. [03:05] Jennifer shares her background and how she got involved in behavioral science. She has been lucky to work for many companies across many countries.  [04:35] A lot of the work she has been doing lately has been about the intersection between behavioral science and psychology. She takes those principles and applies them to experience design.  [06:48] One of the big things Jennifer does is framing touchpoints.  [09:39] Crossing over from one medium to another is a difficult point where we often lose some potential customers. There are a lot of steps that happen in the customer journey process.  [10:28] Generally, when you design a customer journey you use a customer journey map: a visual representation of what the customer journey is.  [10:45] On a map the customer journey is linear, but in real life it is messy. Yes, we have a beautiful picture of what the customer journey should be, but in the back of your mind, you have to be pragmatic.  [11:49] The closer we can get to design touchpoints and customer communications with a scientific approach or foundation to apply it to the real world the better it is.  [13:08] The number one thing brands seem to get wrong (or miss completely) is peak-end and applying it across the customer journey. The emotional journey is the secret sauce.  [14:17] A lot of brands get their ending wrong. They don’t know where the real ending is.  [15:41] Brands, in general, don’t realize that the last mile (the true ending) is so critical in so many ways.  [16:17] Jennifer shares an example of Disney realizing the customer journey didn’t end when you left their park.  [17:19] Making the very end of your experience even better and more exciting means your memory of the time you spent in Disneyland is even better. It is how you are constructing the memory, it is not about every single moment you had. It is that emotional peak and true ending that matter.  [17:57] “A brand is a memory.” Peter Steidl (from one of Melina’s “go-to” brainy books, Neurobranding, linked below) [20:33] There are a few different ways you can look for that true end in your business.  [21:44] Part of the issue of finding that true ending also has to do with silos.  [23:56] The brands that measure on a journey-level versus a touchpoint level have much more value at the end of the day.  [25:32] Melina shares how an online mattress company handles its customer journey.  [27:16] It is important to think through all the moments in the experience: where there could be problems and frustrations and turning it into a really great shareable moment/story. Then you have different associations with that brand.  [28:30] Going that little bit extra and saying “Is that really the end of the customer experience?” is so important.  [29:14] Jennifer shares some of her favorite concepts. Peak-end is her favorite, but the most overlooked is visual salience.  [31:27] Melina shares her experience when she toured the Human Behavior Lab at Texas A&M.  [33:46] Jennifer encourages brands to have someone who is responsible for making sure effectiveness and emotion are being delivered on in the journey level.  [36:20] When you know what you are looking for then you can see if you are on track and put in those nudges. If you don’t know the end game, it is not as effective as it could be. The quality of the work is in the quality of the brief.  [38:06] Making choices easy is so much of what they do. Getting brands to understand where to get people ready to buy is the first step.  [39:15] The first thing they do is think: “Where are the points we need to be nudging to action?” and “Where are the points we need to be inspiring people?” They are usually not the same place.  [39:23] The book Choice Hacking is a good first start for people to think about a framework to apply this at the journey level.  [40:11] Melina’s closing reflections. [41:46] Grab Melina’s brand new book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell You), which is now on presale! Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: Master Your Mindset Mini-Course BE Thoughtful Revolution - use code BRAINY to save 10% Get Your FREE ebook Melina’s John Mayer Pandora Station! Listen to what she listens to while working. Get the Books Mentioned on this Episode: Choice Hacking Free Chapter of Choice Hacking Neurobranding Connect with Jennifer: Jennifer on Twitter More About Jennifer Past Episodes and Other Important Links: Texas A&M Certificate Program Inside the Texas A&M Human Behavior Lab iMotions (The main software the Human Behavior Lab runs on.) NUDGES & Choice Architecture Framing Priming Interview with Will Leach Peak-End Rule Surprise and Delight The Overwhelmed Brain and Its Impact on Decision Making Interview with Roger Dooley Time Discounting Reciprocity Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell You) on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!
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Feb 19, 2021 • 43min

140. How Simple Nudges Can Save Hundreds of Millions, interview with Dectech’s Dr. Benny Cheung

Today I get the honor of introducing you to Dr. Benny Cheung, a director of DecTech. You may remember that company’s name as Dr. Henry Stott, a cofounder, joined me on the show in episode 130 to discuss some of their other work.  This conversation digs deeper on a specific project that Benny worked on to reduce opportunistic insurance fraud. You’ll get to learn all about it during the episode and I promise it is fascinating to learn how some simple nudges can help reduce a problem of, essentially, little white lies that were costing the UK insurance industry a billion pounds each year.  We also get to learn a little about Benny and the research he did studying creatures that may seem very different from humans, but whose behavior we can still learn quite a bit from. He completed a Ph.D. and a two-year postdoctoral research fellowship in the field of behavioural science at the University of Cambridge before joining Dectech. During his academic career, he was involved in commercial projects in the clinical research and biotechnology industries. His areas of expertise include retail, eCommerce, financial services, utilities, telecommunication, and advertising. Show Notes: [00:40] Today I get the honor of introducing you to Dr. Benny Cheung, a director of Dectech. [03:11] Benny shares his background and how he got involved in behavioral science. He started in behavioral genomics.  [03:44] Benny joined Dectech in 2005 to apply techniques and technology in behavioral science in a commercial backdrop supporting clients to understand their consumers better. Now the mission at DecTech is to provide the tools that will allow their clients to make more accurate and cost-effective predictions about their consumer’s behavior.  [05:08] A lot of behavior we can trace back to genetics, so you inherit a lot of behavioral traits.   [05:35] Nowadays his focus is more on the commercial backdrop and consumer purchasing commercial decision making.  [06:32] Benny shares about a study he did with worms in 1999 about genetics and how intricately genetics is related to the behavioral outcome.   [07:55] In that study, feeding behavior came down to a single gene. While not all behaviors are that simple, genetics plays a very important role in behavior. Your environment also has a very important role to play.   [09:48] Benny shares about his opportunistic insurance fraud project. They focused on everyday consumers that were giving into temptations of being less than honest at a specific point during their customer life cycle.  [11:29] The project was for the Insurance Fraud Bureau in the UK.   [12:42] Opportunistic fraud is different from high-profile organized fraud because it is often undetected. That is a challenge for the industry.   [12:54] The IFB came to them and asked them to come up with a solution to fight this kind of opportunistic fraud.   [15:27] This type of fraud is typically not planned, instead it is something people choose to do at the moment.     [16:14] Nudges only work well in certain situations.  You really can only nudge someone if they are sitting on the fence.   [18:47] Coming up with the intervention messages was the first task. The second task was to come up with a testing paradigm where they could test their effectiveness.   [20:41] The five principles they picked to focus their intervention methods were: norming(herding), consistency, priming, framing, and reciprocity.   [23:10] They prompted in a covert way as customers verified they were not a robot.   [26:04] When you have to focus on the words like in the captcha it has a different impact on the brain.  [26:24] For these interventions to be usable they can’t leave a negative perception or imprint.   [27:11] They tested using a randomized controlled trial. Recreating the realism of applying for motor insurance online was a very important aspect.   [29:24] By comparing peoples’ responses collectively to those contentious questions in the different conditions they could see how effective the interventions were in swaying dishonesty.   [30:13] On average the interventions were able to sway 36% of the dishonesty. An intervention in the norming category was proven most effective and had a 55% impact of dishonesty swaying.   [31:21] Of the 18 interventions they tested only one of them didn’t really work. All of them have shown some positive impact in swaying dishonesty.   [33:47] In behavioral science it is paramount to test.  The Holy Grail of testing is doing a real-life trial, but they can be costly and risky to do, and hard to scale.  [36:01] It is beneficial to get out of your way and test things when it is a safe space so you can see what amazing things can come out of it.   [38:53] None of the interventions left a negative impact on the outcome of perceptions.  [40:58] Melina’s closing reflections. [41:39] In the case of opportunistic fraud, it was important to know that this is often a decision made in the moment instead of premeditated or otherwise planned. This is why the nudges were effective: they appeared right at the moment where someone was teetering on the edge. Where does that exist in your business and what are some nudges you could implement to help encourage behavior for your customers or employees? [42:52] Grab Melina’s brand new book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell You), which is now on presale!  Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: Master Your Mindset Mini-Course BE Thoughtful Revolution - use code BRAINY to save 10% Get Your FREE ebook Melina’s John Mayer Pandora Station! Listen to what she listens to while working. Connect with Benny: Benny on LinkedIn Benny on Twitter Dectech’s Website Dectech on Twitter Past Episodes and Other Important Links: Using behavioural science to reduce opportunistic insurance fraud Interview with Henry Stott Temptation Bundling Incentives NUDGES & Choice Architecture Priming Social Proof Framing Reciprocity Loss Aversion Interview with Dan Ariely How To Set Up Your Own Experiments Check out (and preorder!) Melina’s upcoming book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell You) on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!
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Feb 12, 2021 • 23min

139. Endowment Effect: Why We Like Our Stuff More, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode

Today we will be digging in on the endowment effect. This concept is similar to a few you have heard on the show before, including loss aversion, the IKEA effect and even a little bit of reciprocity mixed in there. While they are similar, they are not the same.  The endowment effect is super impactful for all kinds of businesses. Everything from physical products to services, online versus brick and mortar shops; all can use the endowment effect to improve sales. And, yes, this even comes up when discussing change with members on your team (which I won’t really get into today, see the Change Management episode link below for more on that). Listen to this episode and download your freebie worksheet to get tips for how you can use the endowment effect in your business.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Show Notes: [00:41] In this episode, you’ll learn what the endowment effect is, how it works, and tips on how you can use it. [02:15] EXCITING NEWS! This week, an article came out in Psychology Today called 21 Psychology Podcasts Every Businessperson Should Listen To. I’m so honored to say that The Brainy Business made the list! [03:04] In its simplest form, the endowment effect teaches us that we value things more when we own them (or have perceived ownership over them). To put it another way, we like our stuff more than other peoples’ stuff. [03:21] It is incredibly easy to trigger the endowment effect. Even a slight change in words can make a huge impact. [04:00] By saying, “You will notice when you go to check out the article…” I am triggering the endowment effect. Making it personalized by using the word “you” makes a difference, but also saying, “when you do this thing” is really powerful for triggering perceived ownership in the brain (versus “if” you do this thing). [05:07] One very simple language shift that makes a huge difference when applying the endowment effect is the swap from “if” to “when.” [06:08] The endowment effect is very closely linked to loss aversion, but as I said at the top of the episode, they are not the same thing. It makes the possibility of loss more apparent or clear in your mind. It makes it so you are more aware of losing something. [06:47] When you are given something or interact with it, your brain takes some ownership over it. It can become a part of your identity as the endowment effect takes place. You don’t need to have physically purchased it or technically own it for this to happen. [08:07] The first thing you are given will act like the anchor that you are more likely to take ownership over and we aren’t the only animals impacted by the endowment effect. Do monkeys prefer peanut butter or juice? It depends! [09:34] Being given the item first and told it was yours made it so it was worth more to you and you didn’t want to get rid of it. [09:57] If you keep giving people things, there is no potential loss of the items they have so the endowment effect doesn’t have much of an outward impact. It is only when that trade is presented and they need to give something up that we really see it in action. [10:24] Many businesses are set up so you earn things like credits. They may keep accruing and if you ever stop paying you will lose them all. That little twinge will keep you paying often for things you don’t really use. [13:36] Building the endowment effect into your programs can keep people motivated to stay. Ideally, you are also providing great value for them when they use it, but the endowment effect can help carry them through the valleys where they might be less active because they don’t want to lose out on the progress they have made so far. [14:06] Physical touch has a big impact on the endowment effect. [14:40] Great high-quality pictures and videos can trigger mirror neurons of someone else engaging with the product, which can help your business get the benefit of the endowment effect. [14:52] Another way to really trigger the endowment effect, both for product and service businesses, is to use the word “imagine” or “picture this.” I also use really strong questions to help someone see the experience and live it a little bit. [16:24] Getting someone excited about the prospect of owning something can actually help them to enjoy it more when they do own it, which is a good thing. [17:39] Help the right people to find the best products and services for them and make it an irresistible offer. Using the endowment effect can help you do just that, andl help them truly love you, your business, and that item after they’ve bought.  [18:01] Say you hear often from potential customers that your they’re concerned about the price of your offer. If you know this is a common concern, it can be valuable to trigger the endowment effect to help them to see that as an expense that is worth it to them before they even voice the concern.  [19:50] One of the main reasons a money-back guarantee works is because of the endowment effect. If I know I can try the thing out and get a refund down the line no questions asked, I’m more likely to try it (and less likely to return it because of the endowment effect). [21:15] Melina summarizes her tips about the endowment effect - download your worksheet to practice them!  [23:32] I’m excited to announce that my first book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell You) is officially on presale and available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble (links below) so you can buy today! The book officially launches on May 11, but buying now guarantees you’ll be one of the first to receive this book in print when it’s released. [24:25] And, if you are interested in being part of my launch team to help promote the book (and maybe get a sneak peek!) send an email to melina (at) thebrainybusiness (dot) com. There will be a limited number of these spots available, so act fast if you’re interested. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: Master Your Mindset Mini-Course BE Thoughtful Revolution - use code BRAINY to save 10% Get Your FREE ebook Melina’s John Mayer Pandora Station! Listen to what she listens to while working. Past Episodes and Other Important Links: 21 Psychology Podcasts Every Businessperson Should Listen To Neural Antecedents of the Endowment Effect The endowment effect. Annual Review of Economics Anomalies: The Endowment Effect, Loss Aversion, and Status Quo Bias 10 Endowment Effect Marketing Examples for Retail Loss Aversion The IKEA Effect Reciprocity Tim Houlihan Interview Change Management Why Picking Something Up Makes People More Likely To Buy – On The Sense Of Touch A Behavioral Economics Analysis of Costco Anchoring & Adjustment Mirror Neurons Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!
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Feb 5, 2021 • 42min

138. Why Cute Sells and Other Marketing Magic, interview with Patrick Fagan, author of Hooked

Today I am so excited to introduce you to Patrick Fagan, author of the book Hooked: Why Cute Sells and Other Marketing Magic That We Just Can’t Resist. He is also the Chief Scientific Officer at Capuchin Behavioural Science. As you’ll hear on the show today, Patrick has done all sorts of interesting research over the years, including a study for eBay and some for social media. He has such a great knowledge of the mind and how it applies to marketing and behavior. You can definitely say we are cut from the same cloth so I truly enjoyed chatting with him and I know you’ll love this episode as well.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Show Notes: [00:41] Today I am so excited to introduce you to Patrick Fagan, author of the book Hooked: Why Cute Sells and Other Marketing Magic That We Just Can’t Resist. [03:16] Patrick shares how he developed his love for behavioral science and got into the field.  [04:55] Now Patrick is the Chief Scientific Officer at Capuchin Behavioural Science. They do behavioral science consulting and research.  [07:07] Patrick shares about the priming study he did for eBay. He looked at the effects of background noises on online shopping.  [07:54] He found that classical music makes people more likely to buy. He shares his findings on different types of music.  [10:32] Patrick shares about the papers he co-authored on Facebook psychology and facial expressions. His studies showed that Facebook can raise or lower your self-esteem depending on how you’re using it.  [11:56] Technology is not completely a force for good. It is harming our attention spans and our abilities to think and be conscientious.  [13:39] Patrick shares more about their study on facial expressions. On average, they found that people tend to lean back if they are bored.  [14:42] He gets excited to work on projects where he can understand people, why people behave a certain way, and how behavior can be influenced. He loves doing segmentations.  [17:42] Generally speaking when working with millions of people you have to segment them into groups.  [19:33] Heretics are important for society; they are generally quite influential.  [20:03] Melina shares some of Wendy Wood’s work with habits on running.  [22:35] Fitness seekers are influenced by commitment and consistency. Doing in the future what you have done in the past.  [24:10] Patrick shares about a study in Poland about traditionalism. He had a hunch there was a third group and this was completely validated with the data. [26:01] He shares how you can send different messages based on the group of people. This approach helps you to be able to speak your customers’ language better.  [28:20] You can be marketing exactly the same product and if you're talking to one audience you would use different imagery than if you were trying to appeal to another group.  [28:56] He wrote the book Hooked because he thought it would be good for the world. He also thought he saw a gap in the market for how to use psychology for messaging.  [29:33] His book shares how to make messages work by grabbing attention, how to engage people, and how to nudge behavior.  [29:53] There are three steps that a message needs to take. First, it needs to grab attention.  [31:46] The second part is that a message needs to engage people emotionally.  [33:17] If you present people with puzzles, riddles, or anything where they have to think about it they will be more likely to engage with it or remember.  [34:16] The third thing is how to nudge behavior. You have to motivate people.  [35:04] Passion or emotion is the steam in the engine which drives behavior. If you want people to act you have to fire them up and get that energy going to drive them to act. [38:10] Grab your copy of Patrick’s book Hooked (and all the other books mentioned on the show today) in the links below.. [40:17] Melina’s closing reflections. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: Master Your Mindset Mini-Course BE Thoughtful Revolution - use code BRAINY to save 10% Get Your FREE ebook Melina’s John Mayer Pandora Station! Listen to what she listens to while working. Get the Books Mentioned on this Episode: Hooked: Why Cute Sells and Other Marketing Magic that we Just Can’t Resist The Shallows: What the Internet is Doing to Our Brains Amusing Ourselves to Death Indistractable Good Habits, Bad Habits Marketing to Mindstates Connect with Patrick: Patrick on LinkedIn Capuchin Past Episodes and Other Important Links: Radio, Chatter and Football - The Sounds That Help Us Shop NUDGES & Choice Architecture Behavioural Science Club: Interview with Co-Founder Louise Ward Loss Aversion Interview with Will Leach Interview with Wendy Wood Interview with Nir Eyal Why Our Brains Love Nostalgia & Traditions Social Proof Peak-End Rule Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble. If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!
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Jan 29, 2021 • 40min

137. Using Ethnography to Understand Your Customers and Staff, an interview with Felicity Heathcote-Marcz

Today I am so excited to introduce you to Dr. Felicity Heathcote-Marcz. I know you’ll learn a lot from this conversation with Felicity because…I did too! As you’ll hear throughout the episode, I’m not worried about asking the “dumb” questions like “what does that mean” or “what’s that term you just used?” I’m here for you dear listener! And, I figure if I haven’t heard of something, there’s a good chance there is at least one other person out there who would benefit from a definition as well. I hope you enjoy learning with me in today’s fascinating discussion with Felicity. You will get some ideas for tests and observational research you can do in your business to get an edge into the minds of your staff and customers. I hope you enjoy learning with me in today’s discussion with Felicity. I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Show Notes: [00:07] I’m excited to introduce you to Felicity Heathcote-Marcz an ethnographer at Atkins Global. [02:54] Felicity shares about being the point of contact in her organization for ethnographic research.  She leads many ethnographic projects all to do with the transport industry.   [03:57] She shares about some of the traditional ethnography projects she has led.  [05:44] Ethnography is a methodology that originates from anthropology. The method began by studying cultures and trying to understand them from the ground up.  [07:33] Now ethnography is at a place where the practice has matured and there are many networks for sharing knowledge and evolving.   [09:46] It is up to the organization’s ethnographer to study the spaces and to understand the concerns and realities of different organizational stakeholders and then provide a narrative back to the organization.   [12:39] The Hawthorne Effect is when people know they are being observed and consequently they change their behavior (often without realizing it).    [14:56] In long term projects the Hawthorne Effect quickly melts away because it is not possible to keep up a pretend display of performance.  You become part of the culture the longer you are there studying a group.  [15:31] One of the key challenges of ethnography in business is time.  You always want as much time as you can have in the field.   [16:59] If you don’t have a long period of time for a project, try to spend as much continuous time with the group as possible.  [18:38] She reassures the people she works with that her studies are completely anonymous and none of it will come back on them as an individual.  It is really an opportunity to tell their story.   [20:14] Ethnography is more about understanding in generalities that you can only obtain on an individual level.   [21:10] Felicity shares about the behavioral science piece of some of the work she has done. Nudges have become very popular as a policy tool.   [23:35] Historically traveling in private vehicles was the most dangerous because of accidents but since COVID it has shifted completely.     [25:27] Three-quarters of respondents want to accept the nudge to walk, but didn’t (based on the weather that day).   [26:15] Active travel nudges might be more effective in the summer when people are more likely thinking about walking anyway.  In the winter months, nudges are not enough to move people out of their private cars.   [27:58] Melina shares about Colu and Littery and their use of nudges for social good.  [29:33] It is easy to incentivize people when they have the possibility to win something.  [31:45] It is interesting how some countries might need to set up schemes to incentivize adherence to things like mask wearing in the pandemic, and in other social contexts people do it as an automatic and penalize anyone that breaks that code.   [33:58] As ethnographers we have to take our ethnography seriously.  It is not about us or what we think.  It is about being present in a space for a long enough period of time to be able to understand the people you are researching.  [35:11] It is important that research is not done in a way that is biased or coming in with our own assumptions of why people are behaving a certain way.   [37:50] All ethnographic work is completely unique.      [39:07] Melina’s closing reflections. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: Master Your Mindset Mini-Course BE Thoughtful Revolution - use code BRAINY to save 10% Get Your FREE ebook Melina’s John Mayer Pandora Station! Listen to what she listens to while working. Past Episodes and Other Important Links: Atkins Global Felicity on LinkedIn Felicity on Twitter Hawthorne Effect Questions or Answers NUDGES & Choice Architecture How to Finally Change Your Behavior (So it Sticks) How To Set Up Your Own Experiments Colu The Littery Incentives Interview with Kwame Christian Interview with Louise Ward Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!
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Jan 22, 2021 • 14min

136. Temptation Bundling: A Simple Trick to Reach Your Goals, a Behavioral Economics Foundations Episode

Today we are going to be talking about a really cool trick called temptation bundling. You may have noticed this is a shorter episode than we usually have on the podcast and that is because while temptation bundling can make a huge impact on your life and business, it doesn’t have to be all that complicated. (Hooray!) In this episode, you’ll learn what temptation bundling is, how it works, some ways I have done this myself in my own work, and tips on how you can jump in and start bundling yourself! I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Show Notes: [01:03] In this episode, you’ll learn what temptation bundling is, how it works, some ways I have done this myself in my own work, and tips on how you can use it too. [02:15] One of my favorite things about this concept is how simple it is. This is actually something I’ve done naturally most of my life before it had a name. [03:17] When I required some extra motivation, I created little milestone moments and rewards to keep myself motivated. [03:57] The essence of temptation bundling is taking something you should do but may have a long term reward and not be super appealing at the moment, and bundle it with something you really want to do right now. [05:01] In the foundational research study led by professor Katy Milkman, participants agreed to have their iPods locked up at the gym so they could only access them when they went to work out. They exercised more and were happier about it. [06:10] A slight change in routine can upend newly forming habits and make them hard to start up again if you aren’t careful, so it is important to keep that all in mind as you set up your own temptation bundling techniques and timelines. [07:26] Here’s another great thing about temptation bundling: pretty much anything can be a candidate for the bundle, and what you set up doesn’t necessarily need to be what someone else would want or need. [09:04] Temptation bundling uses a “now” activity to help achieve a longer-term goal and overcome time discounting. [09:37] Most multitasking doesn’t work well. As you are likely going to be looking for ways to implement this for your work goals (at least some of the time), I don’t want you to feel limited by needing to only use this while doing two things at once. [10:19] To help to find your candidates for temptation bundling start by looking for something you love to do in your spare time.  [11:55] The two items that you want to bundle don’t have to be related. Choose any reward and tie to the action ahead of time (download your freebie worksheet here to get started).   [12:56] Temptation bundling is everywhere. You just need to find the cheese to your own personal life broccoli and you’ll be achieving goals left and right.  [13:08] Melina’s closing reflections. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: Master Your Mindset Mini-Course BE Thoughtful Revolution - use code BRAINY to save 10% Get Your FREE ebook Melina’s John Mayer Pandora Station! Listen to what she listens to while working. Past Episodes and Other Important Links: Holding the Hunger Games Hostage at the Gym: An Evaluation of Temptation Bundling Time Discounting Framing Interview With Nir Eyal Indistractable by Nir Eyal How to Organize Your Brain with Behavioral Economics Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!
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Jan 15, 2021 • 45min

135. Using Behavioral Science in Healthcare, Interview with Aline Holzwarth

In today’s episode, I am so excited to introduce you to Aline Holzwarth. Talk about an amazing person doing fantastic and exciting things! Aline is both a principal at the Center for Advanced Hindsight, where she works directly with Dan Ariely and the whole awesome team there. She is ALSO the head of behavioral science at Pattern Health. Today you will get to learn about both of her roles, a little of what it’s like to work with Dan, and about so many great things that she is doing to apply behavioral science in business.  I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Show Notes: [00:08] I’m excited to introduce you to Aline Holzwarth, principal at the Center for Advanced Hindsight and head of behavioral science at Pattern Health. [03:05] Aline shares about all the exciting things she is doing and how she got into behavioral science. She enjoys being exposed to new and different business applications and she was drawn in by the real-world impact.  [05:32] She loves both of her roles so much that she just can’t give either of them up.   [07:21] She shares about some of her favorite projects she has worked on.   [10:23] At the Center for Advanced Hindsight many of their projects come from Dan and some are chosen by the team.   [12:48] The more you are exposed to, the more connections you are going to make.   [13:28] Pattern Health is a digital health platform that works with researchers and clinicians to help them do their research and translate that research into clinical use cases.   [15:03] Aline’s job is to bake behavioral science into the Pattern Health platform to make behaviors that are not fun at all a little easier to do.   [17:24] There is going to be attrition no matter how good your app is, but ideally they try to limit it.   [20:21] Creating a Care Circle to offer constant support has been very impactful especially in long-term situations.   [23:31] They share ways to put people together for more successful support.  [24:10] There is a lot of benefit in support groups, but getting people to find one and show up is very difficult.   [26:44] You can nudge people in the direction that will be most helpful to them but also allow them to have the freedom of choice.   [28:15] Virgil is their mascot and virtual pet at Pattern Health. Virgil is one way to track daily progress. People get very attached to Virgil.  [30:48] Melina shares about the app, Forest, that holds you accountable.  [31:41] Virgil is based on the ideas of rewards substitution. They are substituting the long term reward for a short term reward. The long term things usually don’t motivate us.   [34:09] Behavioral interventions like Virgil help you overcome tiny hurdles until it becomes habitual. We often have to combine behavior interventions to make each one more effective.   [36:01] Aline shares what the future holds for her. She is really interested in getting more into the idea of personality matching.   [37:23] One area she is really excited to start developing is personalizing to peoples’ personalities.   [40:01] They are using the Big 5 personality model.  [42:10] In behavioral economics we are looking at things that all people do on a more general scale. Using personality, we may be able to drill down and know which behavioral interventions work best based on personality type. [43:19] Aline is doing an interview series for Pattern Health looking at innovators, health, and research.  [43:54] Melina’s closing reflections. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: Master Your Mindset Mini-Course BE Thoughtful Revolution - use code BRAINY to save 10% Get Your FREE ebook Melina’s John Mayer Pandora Station! Listen to what she listens to while working. Past Episodes and Other Important Links: Center for Advanced Hindsight Center for Advanced Hindsight on Twitter Aline on Twitter Aline on LinkedIn 2020 In Review: Behavioral Science Edition Aline’s Work A Beginner's Guide to Irrational Behavior (Coursera) Pattern Health Dan Ariely Interview Julie O’Brien Interview Bec Weeks Interview Planning Fallacy Precommitment Time Discounting NUDGES & Choice Architecture Expect Error Loss Aversion Social Proof Relativity Interview with Richard Chataway Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!
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Jan 8, 2021 • 49min

134. Using Behavioral Science to Tackle Addiction (and the Lessons for any Business), Interview with Richard Chataway

Today I am so excited to introduce you to Richard Chataway. Richard is such an awesome and fun guy to chat with. He has worked on so many amazing projects, and let me just tell you right now you are going to love this episode. While Richard works with all sorts of businesses and organizations when applying behavioral economics as CEO of BVA Nudge Unit UK, our conversation ended up talking a lot about addiction, and how he worked on some campaigns that helped people quit smoking.  When you think about changing behavior and how you can apply the insights from behavioral science, it may feel like an addiction would be untouchable...like it is out of the realm of possibility. As you will hear today, the same concepts that are applied in businesses to help people to choose the best product for them can also be used to understand behavior and help people make healthier choices; Things they may desperately want to do and have struggled for years on their own, but with a well-structured program including the right insights from behavioral economics, it becomes possible.  You can learn more from Richard and projects he has worked on in his book and accompanying podcast, both called The Behaviour Business. I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Show Notes: [00:41] I am so excited to introduce you to Richard Chataway. Richard is such an awesome and fun guy to chat with. [01:46] You can learn more from Richard and projects he has worked on in his book and accompanying podcast, both called The Behaviour Business. [03:50] Richard shares how he got into behavioral science about 15 years ago when he worked at the Department of Health in the UK.  [04:50] Smoking as a behavior is very interesting because it is a quintessential irrational behavior.  We are at a point now that everyone knows it is bad for them and that it has short-term and long-term consequences for their health but still people continue smoking.  [06:01] They have changed their approach from telling smokers about the risks to helping them quit and providing them with tools. It was more effective than the traditional approach.   [06:41] Our behavior is not as rational as we think it is and by recognizing some of those irrationalities we can be very successful in changing behavior.   [08:11] Now Richard works for the BVA Nudge Unit. They are a specialist behavioral practice within BVA.  [09:47] Behavioral science can be applied across a huge range of challenges and contexts. [12:02] Behavioral science is helping to show that if you talk about it differently changes can happen.   [12:56] How you say something is as important as what you’re saying. You can frame things in a way that resonates with people and is more motivating.  [15:30] In their research they found that family-based motivations were very important to the group of smokers they were targeting. Smoking was seen as their reward.   [17:11] The fundamental message that smoking is bad hasn’t changed.  Reframing that it doesn’t just impact you but it also impacts your family made the campaign much more effective.   [19:14] If you can shake up your routine and change it a little bit, it can have a huge impact. Habits are very powerful drivers of behavior.   [20:18] It is very easy to think of smoking as being a habitual behavior automatically, but there is a reward element to it.   [22:38] Emotions are very powerful drivers of our behavior.  In their campaign, they were trying to find the right emotional triggers to get that response.  [24:03] Richard shares about a tv ad campaign they created showcasing how children copy the behavior of their parents.  [26:01] It is a good campaign when you get goosebumps when you hear about it.  [27:38] The smoking campaign was really an ah-ha moment for Richard for how behavioral science can help with addressing all kinds of problems.  The focus of his book is how you can use behavioral science to deliver better outcomes for your business.   [28:05] Any business’s challenges are typically around behavior.   [29:01] We have learned more about human behavior in the last fifty years than we have in the last 50,000. Any business that isn’t using that knowledge is going to be missing out.   [29:14] Richard shares his favorite stories from his book including where the understanding and knowledge of behavioral science unlocked a new way of thinking about and addressing a problem.    [30:49] We know from behavioral science that the more friction we put into places, the less likely people are to use it.   [32:04] People like things that are easy and streamlined. [34:58] Understanding behavioral science is one thing, but when it comes to applying it you have to be comfortable with testing everything and being scientific and experimental in that way.   [37:12] It is often a combination of things that have the impact we want and that is why testing is so important.    [38:04] Richard shares a counterintuitive approach they found when working with a bank in the UK.  [41:02] They told customers on the phone with the bank, “Take your time” to put people more at ease even though they wanted the calls to be quicker.  [44:37] When people are already overwhelmed all the stress quickly snowballs when we aren’t thinking about making it easy for customers to do what they need to do.   [45:54] There is a balance to be struck between protecting people’s privacy, but if a service isn’t easy to use then there is a big downside to that too.  [48:24] Melina’s closing reflections. Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.  Let’s connect: Melina@TheBrainyBusiness.com The Brainy Business® on Facebook The Brainy Business on Twitter The Brainy Business on Instagram The Brainy Business on LinkedIn Melina on LinkedIn The Brainy Business on Youtube More from The Brainy Business: Master Your Mindset Mini-Course BE Thoughtful Revolution - use code BRAINY to save 10% Get Your FREE ebook Melina’s John Mayer Pandora Station! Listen to what she listens to while working. Past Episodes and Other Important Links: The Behaviour Business: How to apply behavioural science for business success Richard on LinkedIn Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life Interview With Author Nir Eyal How to Finally Change Your Behavior (So it Sticks) NUDGES & Choice Architecture Framing The Littery Social Proof Time Discounting Mirror Neurons Biases Toward Novelty and Stories Get Your D.O.S.E. of Brain Chemicals Relativity The Overwhelmed Brain Priming Check out (and preorder!) my upcoming book on Amazon, Bookshop, and Barnes & Noble If you are outside the US, please complete this form to be first to know when the book is available near you AND to help show there is a presence in your country to speed along international agreements and get it to you faster!

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