On this episode of the Circuit of Success podcast, host Brett Gilliland interviews Marc Hodulich, the founder of 29029. Marc talks about his goals with his business, which are not to be the biggest or most profitable, but to have an impactful community, build a legacy, and have something that lasts. He also shares his journey to success, the importance of peak performance in life, and his experience as an entrepreneur. Marc encourages listeners to take risks and put something big on their calendars. Full Youtube Episode Here!   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, we’ve got Mark. Hodulich with this, Mark. How you doing, my man? Speaker Marc Hodulich: I’m great, Brad. How are you? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m good. I like those pictures back there. Looks like you got some, mountain maybe, mountains and a leg, get some kids, stuff going on, creating experiences. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Europe ski trip, dog, kids, all the things. Speaker Brett Gilliland: A white picket fence. You got it all, man. Well, cool. I am excited to have you today. So you are an avid adventurer, your accomplished entrepreneur, father of two boys, married, founded and exited multiple companies. One of them, which I’m assuming is what that red hat is right there, is the two 09:02 nine. And, we’ll look forward to talking about all that stuff. But before we do that, I’d like to dive in and kinda learn about the past, man. What’s the background? What’s the story you’ve got that’s made you the man you are today? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Well, thanks for having me. It hasn’t been a linear journey. I’ll tell you that. But, But briefly, yeah, look, I had a great childhood growing up. My dad was a runner. I got to be a competitive runner in late middle school to high school or in tracking college. And I think, you know, for the basis of just discipline and commitment to a goal, didn’t achieve my goals at all as a college runner. I ran at Auburn and as much as I love the school. I probably shouldn’t have been running in the SEC. I was good enough to make our travel team and ass kicked at every race that we went to. So, you know, it was a humbling experience, and then always just kinda dream big. Right? Kind of felt like I knew what my life would be like if I moved back to Burring him out, Pamela, where I was originally from. And right after school moved up to New York Gilliland, you know, it’s kind of knowing what the goal is, but having no idea how you’re gonna figure it out. I knew I wanted to live there. I knew I wanted to be in consulting or work in finance. It was a tough market. It was right after two. And, yeah, it was just a really tough time to find a job in the world of finance. And so I did everything from sell payroll door to door at ADP to work at Thomas Pinks, telling luxury clothing goods to, working at caterer, and it took me about four months to find a really good management consulting job, but I wasn’t unwilling to put in really hard work that maybe I felt like my degrees and my background and my skill set maybe weren’t aligned with. I was just willing to put in the work to try to find the Gilliland, yeah, you know, I kinda just, met my wife in New York. We have married seventeen years now. And pretty quickly in the world of management consulting. I know it’s not what I wanted to do a long time. Still had always that side hustle mentality and had founded a business off to the side and eventually was able to to kinda leave my consulting gig and do that full time. And that’s kind of change into the world of event production, a lot of live events, community building, and finds me where I am today, which is, you know, running a company that I founded with my partner that we sold and bought back called twenty nine and twenty nine. And, that stands for the height of Everest, twenty nine thousand, twenty nine feet. And we built a really cool community and endurance concept really gives people a story to tell. You know, o over a course of a weekend, you know, you’re gonna go to Sun Valley or Whistler or Jackson Hole, and we’re gonna present a challenge of can you hike up a mountain and take a gondola down? Continue to climb it until you hike twenty nine thousand, twenty nine feet. So kinda very quick transition to where I’m at now, but Yeah. Never it’s never easy, and I think a lot of people don’t see all of the challenges, failed businesses, jobs you didn’t wanna work to kinda just see the lifestyle that you have now or or the position you’re in now. And, I’m only able to be here because this learning from my mistakes, but also having really great trusted relationships along the way that finally found the right way to leverage all those in this current business that running out. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s awesome to see. I mean, that you you talked about the community. I mean, the the twenty nine zero two nine is amazing. I mean, I watch through Jesse’s, social media stuff, Jesse. It’s with social media stuff. That’s how I originally got turned on to it and then through your stuff. It’s just amazing. It’s an amazing community. And Gilliland it’s something that people, I think of all walks of life can try to go accomplish. And so my question for you, if there’s a thousand people that do it, how many people are finishing it? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Depends on the location, but, I’d say, on average, around sixty eight percent, right, sixty eight to seventy percent finish it. Well, compare that to a marathon where you get about a ninety eight percent finisher rate. A lot of people are surprised by that. Marathons have an tremendously high, finish your rate. And then compare that to something that I’ve done as well, the leadville trail one hundred, which is one of the most famous, the kind of mountain ultra marathons, hundred mile run. That’s Hodulich a thirty five percent finisher rate. So I don’t wanna say we’re we’re in the middle. It’s it’s really hard. It takes a long time. But, it’s so approachable. We had a participant Jim Fisher who finished our event last year in whistler, eighty years old. Right? Oh, wow. And he said that it’s from that is frustratingly doable. Like, you just moved slowly walking for thirty five straight hours. Right? And so if you’re willing to forego sleep, or a little bit of sleep, it’s amazing what you can accomplish if you just keep moving. And, you know, most people do get to sleep three, four, five hours. Right? But we’re talking about one night of your whole life versus being able to say, hey, I win to Jackson Hole or Whistler or Sun Gilliland and climb that mountain 12:15, seventeen times until I climbed the height of everest. I sacrifice one night of sleep, you know, almost once a month. I do do that. I do I do them all. Right? And it’s, to be able to tell that story, but learn about yourself and the skills that you learn and the patience to discipline the commitment that the compassion, the empathy, all those things that happen because it’s not a race. It’s self scored. And you have thirty six hours to to keep track of your own hikes up the mountain. And, and be really rewarded with a a a pre turnkey experience. So not a not a super high finish rate, but at the same time, You don’t have to be an accomplished endurance athlete. And for most of our participants, they’ve never done, ten k, ten k, or even a half marathon before before set up for the event. Wow. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And what you talked about there is the mindset, man, the the to being able to do that, because I think so many times that little space here in our heads tells us we can’t do this. We can’t do that. It’s dangerous. No sleep. Or maybe you got a condo there. Maybe you’re sleeping outside. Whatever it is people are doing. The negative self talk is used. Right? And that’s in business, that’s in just anything in life. So what have you done throughout your life to to kind of flick that guy, that negative self taught guy off your shoulder and and compete and accomplish anyway. Speaker Marc Hodulich: I mean, look, I think it’s it’d be wrong for me to say that I got it all figured out. But what I tell you is I’m constantly putting myself in a position where, I’m gaining confidence through completing things. And I think that’s the only way you really figure it out is that the voice inside your head that’s telling you you’re not good enough. You’re not fast enough. You’re not strong enough. You’re not smart enough. You’re not working. Whatever that is, as you actually accumulate these small wins. And those wins happen a lot in training. Right? I mean, you don’t You get this red hat if you finish. Right? If you’ve gone twenty nine thousand, twenty nine feet, you you earn this red hat. And, you earn that red hat through five or six months of training. Right? It’s getting up in the morning when you didn’t want to. It’s going for a hike in the rain. It’s doing the workout in the gym for your hip flex. It’s all of those little things that add up to the finish line, and most people only see the finish line. So I think you’re able to do it on a consistent basis. Look, today I finished my run, and I was in a little bit of a rush for a call, and I would normally go in cold plunge. And I’m gonna plunge up my house for well over a year, and I do it every day. It’s gonna be a mental challenge to do it later today. I’m not hot after a run gonna be dark by the time it’s a chance to do it. You know, it’s it’s it’s gonna be out of my routine. But you get a small win from doing something like that. Right? You start developing that set. I think you just if she constantly put yourself in a position, where you have an opportunity to quit on yourself, and you realize that you didn’t, you sharpen that tool. So when you’re doing something really big like a twenty nine and twenty nine, you’re able to rely on some past experience there. And even if you haven’t done a big amount, or you’re you’re sharpening that tool through training. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So let’s we’re gonna divert here for a second is this cold plunge. So everybody talks about it. I’ve had the guy Ryan Dewey, the founder of Plun John, and and there’s a lot of great ones out there. He’s the one I know. But talk to our listeners about that, man. Because everybody that’s anybody that’s doing peak performance type stuff now is talking about this cold plunge. So is, is it a game changer for you like it is for a lot of people? Speaker Marc Hodulich: I mean, look, first of all, I have a plunge. So I’m not plugging it. I don’t get paid this whole thing. I’ve just had it for a while. I love it. I recommend it to a lot of people. So tell Ryan has made it a great product, and and I love it. It’s awesome. Right? Look, I I don’t know if all the longevity things are true, but it certainly does hurt anything. It it helps tremendously with recovery. And for me, it’s as big as a mental boost. It’s a physical boost. There is the very practical nature of just tend to be working out right before I have to go do something else. And I can’t cool off. I live in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s hot and humid. You know? And then it and it’s a wonderful thing to be able to hop in something for three, four minutes and bring your core body temperature way down. I sleep better with it. So I’m a huge proponent of it just because I see no downside. I think the mental toughness aspect is key. How I’ve learned, about breathing and breath work and control and and not panicking. And this helped my kids My boys are eleven and thirteen now and watching their friends come over. And and the the people who just can’t commit to it, make it way worse. And those just kind of surrender and just lay in it. You get the vagus nerve, and you just calm down. And, there’s a real trust and learning process there. So become part of my daily routine and just something that I feel like, if you have access to one, there’s really no reason not to be doing it. And and I think there’s potentially a lot unbelievable reasons to do it. Health benefits, longevity, recovery, and sleep. Sleep being a big one for me, I think. I sleep with a chili pad, and I I notice I sleep better. And you have to be able to moderate. Right? I wear a woot not sponsored by any of these companies not paying me to say this stuff. But, yeah, any day to be able to show you. Right? And I think, I see a big difference in my sleep and recovery from using those products, so they’ve just become a main setting. In my training and in in my life. And and honestly for my family as well, my wife does this stuff now. My kids do too. So I think you’re teaching them really good habits. It should benefit them for the rest of their lives. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What’s your temperature? What do you keep it at? Speaker Marc Hodulich: So that that was a big point of contention. When I originally got out of my clothes, I kept it at thirty nine to forty. And now we’re about forty five degrees, and it it it kinda works in the way as I’m sure you have one as well. It keeps it in a three degree. Period. Right? The chiller turns on once you get two degrees away. So mine’s typically forty five, forty six degrees, which Speaker Brett Gilliland: you Speaker Marc Hodulich: get all the same benefits according to the podcast that I listen to. And it’s much more approachable than thirty nine forty was, which was honestly brutal. Yeah. Yeah. So I Speaker Brett Gilliland: don’t do it every day, like like you. So I mean, are are you so you’re an everyday guy. No miss. And, which that’s a big deal. So that’s but but it doesn’t get easier. Does it? Speaker Marc Hodulich: No. Not at all. I mean, look, I I will just and I’m away at an event or a scouting new location or in a partnership meeting or whatever it is. You’re gone for four or five days. It’s really hard get mentally ready to be like, okay. I can do this. I gotta go back into it, but it’s never easy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Are you a sonic guy? Speaker Marc Hodulich: I am as well. I have a sauna, and I’ve been doing that for a while. I used to have a seam, but I like the sauna a lot more. Yeah. Just able to stay in there longer. And, actually, it’s funny. It’s become a lot more social. Right? I know my partner Jesse used a lot for social, but it it it is. It is something at night. It’s nice to do after dinner. And, it’s just become a little bit not an everyday routine. I had a wood burning sauna for a while. I just got a new electric one, which, is being installed next week. It’s not infrared, actually. No. Okay. But, it’s got one of those hive, home heaters, the rocks Okay. That, really, really beautiful, modern looking. And, yeah, it’s just become it’s become something that, I feel like that, the coal plunge, And and then a few just kinda daily supplements have really been a game changer for me. So Yep. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And you say the feuds or you say that’s huge? Speaker Marc Hodulich: It’s huge. Yeah. No. It’s just been huge in terms of my, you know, daily oh, the few supplements. Sorry. Yeah. The few. I only take a few things, but I I just realized I lose, way too much sodium when I work out, and I used to only take salt pills or electrolytes, when I was actually doing a race. And that’s just been part of a daily program, and I’ve been taking athletic reins for a few years. And, really just enjoy that. I just feel like if I didn’t do anything healthy for my body that day, at least I at least I took some athletic greens that day. Right? And and got some greens. And, it’s a simple thing that has become, very easy when I travel to. Right? And, those types of things, making sure I drink enough water, get the electrolytes in and take my athletic greens. I feel like I’m at least doing a baseline of something that’s good for me. If I’m out of my normal workout routine. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. What, what’s someone do you use for the salt or the the electrolytes? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. So I’ve been taking precision hydration for a while. I just like that they have, the milligrams. So the total amount of sodium, they have tubes that are five hundred a thousand or fifteen hundred milligrams. And, that was very helpful for me when I did, like, super ultra endurance events, like, hundred mile runs, just I knew how many I knew how many milligrams I needed an hour, and it just made the math really easy. Right? Yeah. Rather than taking all pills and trying to figure out how many did I have or was, I could just take a fifteen hundred tablet and know I was good for an hour, and then take another one the next hour. Right? And, so I’ve been taking typically take their thousand milligram and drink that about twice a day. And it’s just a dissolvable tablet that I put in water. So Okay. It’s easy to travel with. And I just I lose a lot of salt when sweat. So I did a sweat test and just figured out how much salt I was losing. And and it’s just learning about your body. Everybody’s different. But I just realized one of my big fears in doing ultra endurance events was either over hydrating or not having enough electrolyte the way you fix that is just figuring out how much you sweat and realizing how much you need to replace not only of actual liquid, but the the salt the sodium, the magnesium that you need to get back in your body. So that just became a system that’s worked really well for me. And, I really liked the product. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what do you find as a business guy? Right? You’re a businessman, you’re a husband, you’re a father. But you wanna you wanna grow a business. Right? So what do you find that keeps you in peak performance? Is it just daily action every single day, everything we’re already talking about, or how do you continue find that extra gear to do all this personal stuff and the family stuff and yet still grow a kick ass business. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. I’ll tell you, there’s no such thing as balance. I had a Speaker Brett Gilliland: I agree. Speaker Marc Hodulich: So I better realize that you just have to optimize for certain things at at a point in time and then figure out, you know, what your kids need, what your wife needs, and actually make communication about this thing. So I did an Ironman in twenty seventeen. My wife has always been supportive, whatever I wanna do, and she said, not another one. Right? Is it the training Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’re tapping out. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. She said, I look, it was too much on her. I was just I was gone too much and, I was too tired when I was home. The amount of training that I was putting in. And, really, because it’s the multi discipline, right? You guys spend all the time in the pool, all the time, like, and then run. Whereas, you know, doing something like Leadville, your body just can’t run that much. You just break it down. So, where you can be on the bike for a couple hours a day, you can’t run that much. So what I realized is, like, when you start a business, it really needs all of your attention. And putting signing up to to launch a business, being an entrepreneur, whether you’re taking in capital or you’re bootstrapping it, and then signing up for an Ironman or a hundred miler, and then having a kid at the same time is probably not wise. Right? So you can’t always time everything in your life, but I feel like when I’ve had these periods where I’ve had a little bit of a lull, it was an it was a it was permission for me to say, okay. I’m gonna put something really big personal that I wanna go and do. Right? And maybe that’s an adventure, amount I wanna climb, a hundred mile or I wanna run, but I know that I’m in a season of life where I have the time to do that. My non negotiables always kinda been my kids. Right? They’re only gonna be in my the house so Gilliland and that’s why my wife said not another Iron man, because I didn’t miss time with my kids. I didn’t miss their sporting events. You know, when they were at baseball games, I was running in between in between games or running from one part to the next, but then I wasn’t with her. And so what I realized was after I did that, I needed to do something to support her. So she actually signed up into the the second twenty nine to twenty nine we ever did. And she never even done a ten k. But I went from having the support of her doing Ironman and then flipping it and supporting her in really her first race ever. And and that felt really good. It was really good for our marriage. So I don’t know if it’s advice. I’d say my lived experience is you have to go really deep when you’re an entrepreneur, but you don’t have to do that forever. And it depends on what your goals are. My goals with twenty nine and twenty nine are not to be the biggest company out there, not to be the most profitable. My my real goals are to have an impactful community to make to build legacy to have something that lasts. But maybe not maximize the profitability or the growth of the business. And that allows me to spend maybe some of that time that would may you may be spent on expansion if that was something that, was a success metric of mine. I can spend it on other things. Right? So I think it’s being very self aware. And also, honestly, just realizing you can’t do everything at once because other things are gonna suffer. And I’d rather do one thing or two things at an a plus than six. A b minus or a c plus. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Don’t you agree to, like, putting things? Like, for me, it’s in my calendar. And so it’s self management putting it in your calendar. Like, if you wanna be there for your kids or for your wife, whatever it may be, like, write it down on your calendar and then fill in the work spots around it. Would you agree with that? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Hundred percent. And and look, also, I think it’s just to be honest with people. Like, last night, I had a couple Gilliland I only didn’t wanna miss my son’s football So I just told him. I was like, look, I can hop on the phone, and I can watch a football game while I’m on the phone. My son only plays defense. I’ll talk to you when he when the offense is on the Right? It was just it was a way to say, look, I can talk to you tonight or I can talk to you on Friday. But if it’s urgent, I’m happy to get on the phone. Just understand there’s gonna be cheerleaders and abandon the background. Right. But you can be flexible, work from a lot of places, and and I think where we’re at. This is unbelievable. Gilliland it’s also a curse if you can’t put it down. And so finding that quiet time, we’re gonna get some real structured work done. And really Gilliland and Orion holiday way be still, right, and and honestly make some good progress. And then also you can work from anywhere. And and so I I kinda take that liberty to be able to work from a bunch of different places, and it allows me to spend more time with my family or friends or doing other things, adventure related. So long as I carved out that time to get the real work done before I get on the road? Speaker Brett Gilliland: So let’s talk about the, the idea stage. Right? A lot of people have ideas, and and I’m assuming I don’t know how the the twenty nine zero two nine came, about. But you have an idea, and then let’s say, you know what, man? Let’s go make it happen. Like, nobody’s doing this. Nobody anywhere was doing anything like this to my knowledge. How do you take an idea and then turn it into a business model? Sell it and then buy it back. Let’s unpack that. Speaker Marc Hodulich: I’ll start with, have really good people around you who will tell you what a bad I is too. Right? And and I’ll say that lightly. Like, I have a few people that I’ve worked with for years and I really trust, and I can go to them. I’ve been in YPO, young president’s organization for a while. Now, you know, I’d go to my forum and say an idea that we beat it up before I spend too much time on it. And sometimes that’s just me having to defend my idea first, and get more conviction in it before I go and do something. Other times, it’s battle testing something and being like, hey, maybe this isn’t as good as studying as I thought. But I think the thing that that stops most people is just action. Right? And most of the time, you think the initial idea isn’t really that good, but by going out there and actually starting it, doing it, hosting the event, launching the podcast, writing the book, once you get started in the process, you get feedback, then you’re iterating to figure out what the what the public wants. What the right product is, what the right placement is, what the right price point is. Right? If you think about the four ps of marketing, you really can’t sit in a room for months and figure it all out. And how many successful companies have been founded had a pivot. Almost all of them. Right? And, with twenty nine, I don’t know that there was pivot, but if you looked at what we did, event one, how we sold it, how we positioned it. It was really positioned as like farm to table food, great bands in a cool hiking challenge. And after the first event, Jesse and I looked at each other, Colin, and we’re like, This is really all about the story of climbing the height of everest. Why are we spending money on farm to table meals and getting these bans from your city to come in. They’re these wonderful no one wants to listen to them. People wanna spend all their energy on the mountain. Let’s take those dollars and invest it in training. In coaching and mindset talks and and speakers and actually do everything to to not rip out components of the event and and replace it with margin. But let’s figure out ways to actually reinvest those dollars in a way that supports what we think actually people are looking for. And in helping them achieve their goal better. So that led to really refining a product. And I think what we really did at the very beginning We had two rules. I think it’s very important to, hey, if you’re a business by yourself, it’s important to kinda know what your vision and values are and write them down. Yeah. That’s a business one. I wonder a lot of people don’t do it. The second thing is it is really important if you have partners to make sure you have alignment there. But, like, what are your goals? Right? And our goal was very simply to care the most. And I know that sounds ridiculous, But, like, it’s really true. We just say, hey, look, if we want to really build community, we don’t wanna have something that stands out as very different from the whole world in the Derek sport and the adventure sport. We’re gonna care the most. And and how does that play through? That plays through in the the people you work with, the people you hire, the vendors work with. And then We’re now in year seven, and, we had no pay partners. Any. Right? And and so you realize, like, I didn’t want our participants to be the product. Right? I I wanted the product to be hiking the mountain. Well, yes, we could have had a cheaper ticket if we had allowed people to come in, like, BMW Land Rover and sell their cars to this audience. Right? Because it’s an expensive ticket. And I didn’t want that because I’d be servicing the sponsor and their needs and not servicing the customer. So we were very customer centric and caring the most, and that that led us to build something It was very authentic. And anytime we had an opportunity to chase dollars and sponsors and we focused on the customer, it was easy to go back and say, what do we wanna initially do? And is that still in alignment now? So, you know, how did that lead to showing a company and buying it back. Well, at the end of the day, selling the business was something that There are just gonna be points in time, and I and I think a lot of it just has to do with timing. There was a time period in twenty one where evaluations were absolutely crazy. Across all sectors, you had companies looking to go public. Companies going public. You had unbelievable amounts of private equity and VC cash, flossing, flossing around. And there was opportunity that may not exist again. Now, look, that’s a little bit hindsight, but you knew at the time there was a way of being built. And in buying the company back was, It’ll an realignment of goals. Right? I stayed on a CEO, when we sold the business. My whole team came with me. So it was a strategic kind of partnership and acquisition. But when I realized that, like, long term, the company that acquired us, didn’t really have a plan that married once they had to pivot their business model, they became like, well, I’m a buyer. I love this. I wanna continue to do it. And and being mature enough, I think, impatient enough for that opportunity to happen and not forcing it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, and and I think too, staying involved in seeing some it’s not hitting your passion and your mission. Right? I mean, I think the the clear we are is entrepreneurs as business owners. I mean, there is a clear passion and mission for what we’re doing in our firm. And I would assume if I got displaced from that but could still see, you know, kinda like the goldfish looking or looking at in at the goldfish, I could see this thing not going down the path I want. I I I don’t want that. Right, man. I want my baby back. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. And look, some of it’s just I became a lot more self aware. Right? Like, I had a business partner buy me out of a business. I had, a business go under. Right? And so I’d had success, some success had some failure, and then you have a big, a big win, like, selling the business. And I think a lot of that as an entrepreneur, you think it’s gonna provide some validation for what you’re doing. And what I realized was like, this is my passion. It wasn’t a mistake to sell the business. It was just that I wanted to buy it back almost more than I real thought I wanted to sell it. Right? And that’s because there was such an alignment in my purpose, in my passion. And and look, The acquisition was great. My whole team stayed with me. I continued to do the same job. And I just realized I’m a really bad employee. I’m an entrepreneur. And Right. You know, I I thought, oh, I’m gonna get through on a business unit. I’m gonna get to acquire other businesses like this and put my business model on Gilliland I realized that I’d rather just only have to answer to myself or my partners, collaboratively than than have a bot Right? I just realized there’s a reason I left as an entrepreneur in the beginning and, in recognizing that, I would be much happier going forward maybe even less financial opportunity, but more controller in my day to day was, it was much more valuable to me at that point of, that point of my life. And still, that’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, great learning. Right? It’s a great learning to know you just can’t work for somebody. I’m I’m not an employee myself. So it’s, it’s it’s good to know. So I saw one of your posts. You said there’s growing old versus growing up. Talk about that. Yeah. I mean Can you recall that post? Speaker Marc Hodulich: My dad is super close. I’m close to both my my my parents, and they’ve been married for fifty plus years. And all I see, my dad is, like, He still has fun all the time. Right? He’s still very fucking hard. And, like, yeah, you you’re gonna have to grow all at some point. That doesn’t mean you you have to to to mature too much to a point to not be able to laugh at yourself to try new things. And, so, yeah, it’s super important to me to stay young at heart. And, you know, I say to my kids, I hope this comes across humble, but we were at a a football game last week, and the the the steps on the bleacher are pretty big. And I’m I’m forty three. Like, I’m not thirty three anymore. Like, I think I am. And I myself in really good shape, but I looked at my son, and my my, my older son, because my younger son was on football field, and I was like, you know, look around, look at these dad’s, like, gingerly walking down these steps that are like my age around the same age. And I was like, I jumped down those things. Right? Right. I don’t wanna get old. Right? Like, I’m gonna try new things, but you have to work hard for that. Right? You have to You have to say no to some bad meals, not drink as much. You gotta get in the gym. You gotta do things, but I wanna preserve the ability of me being not only kind of young at heart and maybe even a little immature with my sense of humor or my ability to laugh at myself the way I approach things, but also physically just be able to do stuff for a longer period of time than most people my age are able to. I realize forty three still really young. But I wanna be able to do the same stuff when I’m seventy three. And I really do believe that’s possible, but it takes a mindset of kind of, like, staying staying young at heart to, I think, be able to achieve that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I I was just, last week. I went and, we played thirty six holes of golf per day out of bandon dunes out in Oregon. So if you’re a golfer, it’s phenomenal. Highly recommended to anybody listening. It’s a golfer, but we talked about it. You know, I’m forty five, and I’m like, man, this is a young man’s game. We’re walking because there’s no there’s no golf So it’s thirty six holes a day. We’re walking fifteen to seventeen miles a day. Thankfully, we had a caddy. But but it’s a lot. Right? By the end of the, you know, the first couple days, you’re you’re hurt So we did that for four straight days. And, but it’s but I had the exact same thought, man. Like, I don’t wanna not continue to be able to do this stuff because I’m quote unquote too old. And my actual long term goal in life is to play golf on my hundredth birthday and and, you know, shoot shoot under a hundred. You know? And so, that’s that’s Speaker Marc Hodulich: the goal. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So, yeah, I think I think having that stuff, but it’s important now. So what does that routine like for you? I know you said you’d like to run the cold plunge and the sun and all that, but kinda break that down for you, your food choices, and even your exercise. What’s that look like in a busy world today? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Look, I’m not as regimented as what people think. Right? Okay. I’m really regimented when I have a goal. If I’m training for an Ultra, a big race, whatever it is, I don’t mix a workout. Right now, I think it’s about finding some some way to move every day. I don’t know that these are, like, really amazing life hacks for people, but, I take a lot of calls. I’m on the phone a lot. My team’s remote. I walk constantly. Right? Now my friends will tell me walking’s not working out. So on one of those calls a day, I put on a thirty pound rucksack. You know, and and you walk four or five Gilliland thirty pounds when you’re back up and down hills, you build a lot of strength, core strength, back strength, leg strength, And I don’t consider that a workout. Right? So my workout typically is I run five miles a day, four days a week. And, I lift weights two to three days a week. And then, hopefully, somewhere in there, and depending on travel and what’s going on, there’s one long workout, whether it’s a long bike ride, whether it’s a long run, something of the duration of, you know, an hour and a half to two hours. Right? But food just through my nature of kind of trying to maximize as much time in the day, I don’t sit down for lunch. Today, the first thing I ate was through the clock. I realized I was intermittent fasting years ago, not even knowing Right. So, you know, I take my kids to school every day. That’s a non negotiable for me, and my wife has her time in the morning, and I take the kids to school. And then I’m working out. Sometimes before I take them, sometimes after, I’m really flexible, but I make sure I do something active every single day that I would consider a workout. And I don’t consider taking a conference call with a rucksack on a workout. It’s just I’m being active rather than sedentary. So I think for me, it’s always been about having enough hydration I don’t drink soft drinks. Like, these are simple things. Right? I don’t snack a lot. And I try to eat as healthy as we can. We try to cook in you know, three to four nights a week. But there’s no, like, super strict diet. It’s more or less just like a little bit of moderation. And a lot of activity. And I’ve just found, like, I haven’t gained weight, in probably thirteen to fifteen years, unless I was trying to to gain weight, but I’m really active. I’m on my feet constantly. I’m playing with my kids a lot. And, I’m only really in a routine where I’m tracking every workout and all that type of stuff. If there’s something big on my calendar. Otherwise, I’m just trying to be six to eight weeks away of hard training, be ready for almost anything. Right? I try to stay in good enough state And that’s something I learned from the, an amazing endurance coach, who works in our staff, Chris Howe, who’s rich roles, personal coach, and two time Olympic. He’s like, look, all my athletes are six or eight weeks ready from almost doing anything. Like, if you wanna go run a hundred mile run and I’m coaching you, six weeks from now, you could be ready. If six weeks of heart training. And while I’m not on that caliber, I’m pretty close to where if I put my head down for six weeks, I I maintain a level of fitness that could have me ready for almost anything in the six to week period. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what’s the next experience, man? What are you doing with your kids? And because that’s something I’m thinking about. My oldest is a senior, and I’ve got a, you know, senior a sophomore eighth grade, fourth grade, One of my first, college visit with my son, sorry Auburn, it was at Old Miss, another SEC there. And, it was fun. We went to the Grove, did a little tailgate before the ball game is incredible. But, you know, I’m looking for those those experiences. So what what do you have out there that you think would be cool with the kids, whether it’s adventurous, running, riding, swimming, hiking, whatever it may be. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. So, two things that I learned each independently from someone else, not my own ideas. One, when each of my boys turns thirteen, I had one turn this year. They get a pick anywhere in the United States, they wanna go on a trip. It’s just the two of us for three I had an opportunity to to go to London, and go to some Premier League games, and my thirteen year old super into that. So he said nice. Yeah. You can the US in London. So I gotta hop the ante for my eleven year old, when he turns thirteen. And then when they turn eighteen, you get to pick anywhere in the world they wanna go. And my wife and I, the four of us will go on a family trip together. And that’s been something that gets talked about a lot. And I want them to be really invested in it. They’re gonna have to plan it but it’s already being talked about in our family. So those are, like, two things at thirteen and eighteen, kind of, like, going into eighth Gilliland then going into college. I feel which is a really important time. One for me to just do one father, son, one to do as a family. As far as other adventures, you know, I found for me, the things that we enjoy most of the families if we get out of our comfort zone. And so I’ve really enjoyed going to other countries and immersing ourselves in the culture. And, experience that I’ve loved, you know, we we went to Patagonia. We’ve gone to Costa Rica. And they’re super, super active vacations. Right? Like, you want a vacation afterwards to just rest. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Marc Hodulich: But I want my kids to see the world. And I think, you know, even in the United States, you know, we tend to spend our summer We spent a few weeks in telluride over here. This last summer, because I had events in Jackson Hole and Sun Valley, we spent time in those locations. And, like, getting out in the mountains, There’s something to do every day. And I’ve really enjoyed adventures where my kids had to put a decent amount of effort into something. So the big hikes, staying up paddleboarding down rivers, the mountain bike riding. That stuff’s been very rewarding, even taking them up their first, like, thirteen or next year, probably, like, I’m a fourteen or with them. You know, safe routes, but, like, a lot of work. Right? And then you get to pay off of a view I really enjoyed those experiences where they kind of complained at the beginning. I did a dirt bike adventure, and I never ridden a dirt bike. We all had to learn how to ride dirt bikes together, camp out. I don’t like camping. Right? It ended up being something that was amazing. I did it with another entrepreneur and his son there were there were actually like four dads and four sons. So I found stuff like that to be really gratifying too. You have to come on and be able to go together. And then you’re doing it in an adventure where it’s not easy, but I I also think that the memories are so much stronger from doing those types of activities that we’ve done together. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s incredible. Yeah. We do the thirteen and then they’re, the summer after they graduate. So it’ll be our first one finally, not finally because it went so damn fast, but our big trip, but They’re they’re they’re thinking a little bigger, man. Our our our first one when he was thirteen, it was a COVID. So we kinda got, you know, screwed in We ended up having a staycation here in Saint Louis, but it was nice. It was fun. And then, the next one picked Chicago, and then the the last one we just did in April was, he picked California. So makes us to see in a in a few years what our next one does. So, last couple of questions here, man. You you talked about earlier about dreaming big, and And we’ve really kinda been dreaming big and talking big this whole time. But what is that process for you? Because, like, for me, it’s it’s this black journal here. It’s setting down. It’s spending time myself. Thinking, it’s dreaming, it’s strategizing. Do you have a process like that that you could share with our listeners, or what is that dreaming big process for you? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. So I found works really well for me is I need to be moving, and I need to be outdoors. And I gotta get in a place that inspires me. And look, I Atlanta’s a beautiful like it, but it doesn’t inspire me. So what I’ve found works really well for me is to go to a beautiful place, spend time in nature, without any distraction. Anytime I run, I don’t bring my phone. I don’t wear an Apple Watch. You know, I wanna be away from devices. I think I’d be really good thinking there. And then You know, look, Jesse and our partners in a few businesses, and and and Jesse, for those little gnomes, a credible entrepreneur, super inspiring person, but if you think you have a big idea, Brain is someone who’s had ideas for ten times. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’d be bigger. Yeah. Speaker Marc Hodulich: And and and and get pushed in that sense. I think that whether it’s related to twenty nine or twenty nine or not, when I’m thinking about something that I think is a game changer and you you you have a circle of friends and peers that are thinking big, and I don’t always think that that big means more money. Right? But just challenging yourself, a big adventure or whatever it is. Right? Having people there that you really look up to challenge today, are you thinking big enough or are you limiting yourself? And sometimes you’re starting really big and then refining on the way down, but I think that, that who you surround yourself with matters so much? Because when I’m thinking about adventures I’m gonna go and do, I’m comparing adventures I would do to Colinor Brady, who’s one of my partners, who’s got ten world records, and is he only with the first person to pull a sled across Antarctica for sixty something days self supported. Right? So think of an adventure as something no human has ever done before. And therefore, when I get ideas from him, it’s because we get training routines. Right? And that’s not diminishing what I’m doing, but I’m also not going to a circle of friends that are so impressed with what they’ve done. Yeah. They’re gonna think anything I do is outstanding. Surrounding myself with peers who have done such impressive things. I mean, I I personally have two close friends that devrode the Atlantic. I mean, that’s nuts. Right? I would never stop growing. Right? But when you start talking to them, they’re like, oh, did you know you can do this between Antigo and this? And that’d be really cool for, like, two days. Right? Or did you know you can Speaker Brett Gilliland: ski different? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. You can ski across Finland. Right? It’s eight day cross country skiing, and they set up you know, tend for you to sleep in it. So now me and my friends are kind of considering how is that something we do for our next guys trip. Right? So it’s kind of expanding who you speak to around these things and not not being nervous around sharing your ideas because a lot of times my friends are actually challenging me to think bigger And I’m probably a little too focused on something that is probably too attainable. And and, you know, they’re pushing me to think bigger because they’ve had such big experiences themselves. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, seaside was on your, location thing for your deal. So watercolor seaside, you love thirty a down there? Speaker Marc Hodulich: I do. I really do. My parents started going down there in, like, the early two thousands. And that’s been changed Speaker Brett Gilliland: a bit. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yes. Changed a lot. And I think, you know, it’s easy to look back, but Gilliland say, oh, I should’ve bought real estate. I should’ve looked at this, whatever. It’s it’s interesting to learn from those moments too. Right? And and the people who did and the companies that invested there in the vision that they had to see what transpired to. To me, like, I I don’t look back and say I missed an opportunity to look back and say, what can I learn? From that area? What could I learn from what those people did? Because they took a lot of big risks. And, it’s I I cheer them for winning because, yeah, that area loaded It’s become a great family place for us. We’ll be down there for thanksgiving this year with my parents and and I’ll love it down there. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. We go there a couple times a year. I’ll be down there. I go in two times for the family and one time with a buddy’s golf trip down there. And I I had the same learning moment, man. I made an offer in a house in nineteen, went back and did the head scratcher in this summer and I saw what it sold for. I’m like, wow. That’s that’s a humbling moment. What do I learn from that one? But, hey, you live and learn. Right? Where do our listeners find more of you? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. I mean, look, twenty nine and twenty nine. I mean, just Google two 09:02 nine, just the numbers. And then my Instagram panel is Mark, m a r c two 09:02 nine. So I’m pretty synonymous with our brand. Yeah. I couldn’t breathe it. And and, yeah, we’d we’d encourage anyone whether you’re gonna check out our event or something else. Like, put something big on your calendar. Right? I think it’s, putting something big on your calendar gives you, the opportunity to to be more interesting. And and you’d be surprising how much people just really care. About you doing something different, whether that’s running a marathon, whether it’s, you know, starting a podcast, whatever it is. I think, you know, putting something big on your calendar, allows you to be part of a conversation that you’re not starting with other people. They’re starting it with you. And, and not to be egotistical, but I just think it it’s it’s very interesting how that then leads into business and other opportunities because you’re just doing something that people find of interest. And, you’re continuing to challenge yourself or something all too often people think about doing it, but don’t do. So I would I would just encourage people to find something no matter how scary surround yourself with people that will support you in doing it, and that’s really what we’ve been trying to do at twenty nine and twenty nine since the beginning. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Also, creates a sense of urgency for your training, man, to stay in shape. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. I need that. I need that for sure. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome, man. Well, Mark, thanks so much for being with me on the circle of success. Hang with me when I hit finish here. And then, but man, really appreciate you being on the show.

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Amy Parvaneh, a successful business owner and entrepreneur. Amy shares her experiences of starting her own business and her challenges, emphasizing the importance of developing technical skills and personal branding. She also talks about dealing with competition and anxiety and provides advice for people who don’t enjoy networking. Tune in to learn how to break stereotypes and succeed in your career! https://youtu.be/stbegXbLGOA   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland, and Damey, to Damien. Today, I’ve got Amy, Parvaneh with me. How you doing? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: I’m doing great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s good to have you. I forgot to ask you where are you calling in from? What part of the country? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Orange County, California. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Orange County. Beautiful. It’s an awesome area. We were out in my wife and four kids. We were in LA, Santa Monica area, which I know is not Orange County, but out there in April. So it was a lot of fun. It’s a cheap place to live, it looks like. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Oh, very cheap. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s like, goodness gracious. I’m like, this place is great. Was crazy. Yeah. With four Gilliland, my wife and I, you know, it’s like you couldn’t do anything for under a couple hundred dollars for, like, lunch. It was nuts. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: It’s not New York though. At New York, I I bought one latte for ten dollars. I think I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like before? Or Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It was nuts. We the first night we got there, we got to our hotel, and I ordered a glass of wine for my wife, and I got an old fashioned, you know, been traveling and guy comes back. He’s like, gotta be fifty seven dollars. I’m like, oh, alright. Welcome to welcome to California. So, anyway, We could chat about that all day, but you are the founder and CEO of Select Advisors Institute. You are big in the RIA space, which is what visionary wealth advisors were registered investment advisor. And you do outside CMO work. It’s a chief marketing officer type work, and I know branding and sales helping firms across the country and referral a referral litics is another thing that you all do and Gilliland, so we’ll talk about that throughout the podcast. But if you can, maybe just give us a little background, Amy, and what’s made you the woman you are today. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I started off my own career in finance and investment banking at Citi Group. I actually started my career on, the same week as 09:11. So talk about your upbringing, in your career, the two towers, crumble in front of me. So that was a very, very challenging, obviously, view to have as a, you know, off your career. But I was also the beginning of me falling in love with the financial industry. I’ve, first and foremost, always myself a lover of the industry of investments finance. But while I was in investment bank gave, I found I really love talking about corporate banking and, you know, M and A and mergers, you know, you know, P and L statements as much as I like working with specific individuals, individuals around their wealth and around their financial needs. So I went to business school, at Duke University, and I it was recruited by Goldman Sachs. Went through about twenty five rounds of interviews with them, did my internship there. And got a job in their private wealth management division in New York where their minimum account size was about ten million dollars. And this is when I was twenty six years old, knew Speaker Brett Gilliland: no one that even had a million dollars Speaker Amy Parvaneh: letter along that level. Wow. But one thing I did know was that I needed to succeed in that career because it was just such a amazing opportunity for me I was willing to do cup of noodles a mindset and just hustle, because I felt like it was kinda like, it’s like, I felt like I didn’t belong there, frankly, because I was, like, that was, like, a lot of like Parvaneh, you know, Yale. It grew up with a lot of wealth, and I was, like, well, don’t have any of that. So that really was a great thing for me because I almost made me want to outshine everyone else. And so I was there at Goldman for about five and a half years there. While I was there, I broke a lot of records, as far as, you know, how fast I brought in clients, the type of clients I got front of. And I just fell in love with, like, the the finding of Speaker Brett Gilliland: the Sure. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Like the finding the sourcing it, finding who’s may just made well. How do I get in front of them? What do say to them. And they told me this is what you’re supposed to say. This is the script. And I was like, if I say that within a year, I’m gonna get laid off. It’s not really gonna work for me. So I really also embraced, honing in on your own language, what you could feel really comfortable saying, within the purview of a larger organization. So I I really enjoyed that. And I all along while I was at Goldman, I was like, I wanna be a business owner. You know, even though I know I’m like owning a book here, I don’t feel like I will ever have that level of, you know, zero ceiling that a business owner has, where it’s like, I if I work hard, I literally will, like, it’s like one for Gilliland so I left to start my own business just found that I was expecting my own, my first baby. And so as you know, that’s horrible timing. Went to join another large, established company that was Pymco, and at Pymco, it opened up my eyes to the entire world of RIA’s. I went from a warehouse world to RIA’s. At pimco, my job was to pretty myself to RIA’s, be a consultant to them around Pymco strategies, but Speaker Brett Gilliland: Sure. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Knowing me, I wasn’t there passionate about talking about fake income as much as I was about, like, what is this? Where am I? Like, how is this three man shop managing five hundred million dollars? It seemed crazy to me that they would be wearing so many different hats. So in two thousand fourteen, even though I was expect like, I had my second child, I was like, this is it. I’m starting my business. Moved from New York to California, even Pymco, I was in the New York office. And, I basically started select advisers Institute. And my first, take on, you know, every business has different chapter. My first take on it was just to go help RIA sell. Teaching them how to go prospect. And then I would say, okay, when you go to this meeting, like, you know, over the next two weeks, do this, this, and this. So I would be their coach. And they would come back and not have done a lot of those things. So I realized pretty early on, I needed to actually do the work for them too, do the marketing work, take that on, So long story short short since two thousand fourteen, I basically built the infrastructure needed to be a replacement for an entire marketing division, that, you know, a, a Pymco or a Goldman or a Vanguard has. Like, you know, all the design all that those people, you know, one man or five man or twenty man shop, can’t typically focus on those or or bring those in house. So we do a lot of that as an outsource. Speaker Brett Gilliland: A niche in the financial services market only. Right? That’s that’s all you work with. The financial advisors? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Absolutely. Ninety percent of our clients are RIA’s ten percent in the Wire House world, we do coaching for them. But, yeah, only financial advisors. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what we know that from a lens of what you work with and and how you do that there’s obviously more people than just financial advisors and listen to this. There are a lot of financial advisors that listen. But, but let’s so let’s have that discussion today really around, kind of the way I would look at it is how do you how do you promote creativity? Right? I think a lot of people, whether you’re an attorney less than this or a financial advisor accountant, whatever it may be, we wanna be creative. Right? We have creative minds, but we may not have the team to do it. And let’s say they haven’t met you yet. They haven’t hired you and you your firm. How do you promote creativity in your world, and and time to promote creativity? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Yeah. That that’s part of the reason I actually stopped being a financial advisor myself is because I feel like my right brain, the creative side is a lot more powerful than my left brain. So I think the first thing is everyone should admit to themselves which side am I on? Am I more creative or am I more the analytical, the numbers per and where people get into trouble is where they are the the numbers person. They they’re very good at the money management. And the actual, you know, of leadership skills, but they want to somehow also do the creative side. Right? They wanna, like, get on to social media, for example, but social media isn’t all about, like, uploading your latest q three reports and portal, you know, your your latest, you know, analysis on what’s going on in the markets and having a line out the door. It requires creativity, being raw, being Gilliland so if if you’re able to figure out that you’re not a creative and outsource that to someone who will be creative for you and not get in the way within the compliance fair boundaries, I think that’s the most important is, marketing does require a lot of creativity and thinking outside the box. And financial folks, a lot of times, they have to think inside the box. So you know, it it I think then you you have a really good equation. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. What do you see in most businesses are doing to fail in social media and what they doing to succeed in social media? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: The only thing I’ve seen that works on social media has been literally, branding the human within, you know, within the within the elements of, a firm as well as really, you know, providing value that could be shareable. You know, you look at LinkedIn, some of the things that are like, ten thousand likes and seven thousand reshares. They’re really going, you know, out of their way to create things that are really giving it away. Right? Giving away a lot of content. And I wanna share them. You know, other people wanna share to them. Or you talk about you as a human being, you know, kinda like you said, you might you saw my post about me revealing my actual name or talking about my vulnerabilities, the more vulnerable you could become, the more people could feel close to you without having met you yet. So those are the really the the only ways that I’ve seen really work on social media. The folks that are not, unfortunately, it’s they they know it too. They’re not like they’re they’re not blind to it, but they’re not willing to take that risk. They and I call it a risk because it is a risk. You’re really putting yourself out there. They are not willing to even have, like, a little typo or a little, like, you know, misspelling, but those are the little things that actually make you human and they make it look, you know, like you’re a human being too. And those folks, you’re just not gonna get the views or the, you know, any anything out of this. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, it’s funny you say that. So I I hundred percent believe in that as Gilliland the the transparency, the vulnerability that we have to have, I think, as as leaders, as as advisors, when with our clients, but also on that social media front. I I’ve been very open with my struggles with anxiety throughout my life and to produce countless videos on how I’ve overcome it, how important it is to me, the meditation, the journaling, all these different things that I’ve done, And I noticed in my research for you, you you struggled that as well. Right? And I think so immediately when I read that, I’m like, okay, there’s a connection right there. Right? We both have shared even though you don’t know that about me, I know that about you, is there’s an immediate connection there that allows for us to connect on a deeper level that maybe I wouldn’t know if you just put out what happened in, you know, q two of the stock market. Right? Is so I’m just validating. So So talk about that. You were you shared that. You have intense anxiety you shared. I’ve had it as well. Still have it. How do you overcome that? And how are you how have you made that your friend? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. And I think you’re talking about my latest post that I wrote recently that I think there are whole societies. So, like, especially the younger generation, they’re so worried about anxiety. They think anxiety is like the biggest culprit that could, you know, disable them and they run from a lot of anxiety, like, you know, the whole term anxiety, a panic attack where I had an anxiety attack. Right. And I found that I used to, you know, run away from it or let it weaken me. But now, you know, as you age, you you learned coping mechanisms, and it’s not even a coping mechanism. I actually embrace it. It’s like stage fright. Someone once told me if you don’t have stage fright, you’re not gonna do well on stage. Well, I I embrace it because I think, that level of anxiety is just fear inside you to keep going and and do better. And it’s been, that basically the fuel for me to, to embrace and be like, what am I what am I worried about? You know, I’m worried about not getting clients, but let me go get more clients right now. Helped me. And, you know, and I think just being able to, like, extra I exercise a lot. I’m really into fitness. And I like to do those alone I like to run alone, that allows me to, like, just meditate, you know, think. I don’t wanna turn that into another competition. You know, people are like, will you run marathons? I’m like, no. I don’t need any more competition in my life as a business owner. We’re competing all day long. So Yep. But that’s been really helpful to me. And, you know, just like re re living the, I guess, reigniting the anxiety into a good thing. Been really great. My Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’ve I’ve found I’ve found too for me. It’s, if I talk trash to it, like, if I’m getting anxious about some thing. It’s like, alright, man. Like, I know what you’re doing here. I’ve seen this movie before. I know the end. I’m gonna be fine. Like, you know, I kinda talked to it. And then I immediately try to redirect my mind into something positive and something I’m excited for. Like, even if it’s travel anxiety, getting on a plane and traveling and doing all that stuff. I found last few years that that if if I embrace it, yes, it’s there. I see it. I feel you I hear you. You’re on my left shoulder here talking to me, but now, like, kinda flip that thing off and come over here and talk to the right shoulder, and and try to give that one power. And I’ve also read that the brain doesn’t know the difference between excitement and anxiousness. Right? The wavelengths are the same between the two things. If you actually put it under, you know, whatever they put it under some imaging center, the brain is the same for excitement as it is for anxiety. And so now it’s trying to trick your body into understanding, hey, maybe it’s not as anxious as it is. I’m really excited about this. I’m really excited about getting to go So when you hear me say that, what comes to mind for you? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. I mean, that I think is is critical. Like, you know, I know it sounds, weird, but sometimes I tell myself if I was to have a glass of wine right now, this Problem still exists. Right? It’s all mental. Right? And that’s actually another thing is, like, you know, reducing I feel like our society is, like, fueled drugs, alcohol. We’re trying to let this go, but why not face it and see, like, can I turn this into a positive thing? Can I, you know, can I turn this, like, anxious? So I, like, you know, I wanna I wanna bottle up my energy and be able to use it in a positive way. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. So what what have you had in your career that maybe has held you back? Maybe it’s anxiety. Maybe it’s something different. But do you have anything that’s really kinda held you back for a little bit? But then you broke through it and your comfort zone got a lot bigger. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. That’s a great question. So my comfort zone, yeah, I always, like, was worried about, you know, not not being good enough you know, because a lot of times you look at businesses and they’re either funded by someone else or they are, you know, they’ve got They’ve got all the right recipes, you know, and I always feel like I, you know, I don’t like to promote myself or not for, you know, nothing. Right? Or I’m not in an old boys club to, you know, to be networking and things like that. So I found believe it or not, Brad, that the number one thing that’s helped me, and it helped me at Goldman, it helped me at Pymco, and it’s obviously helped me with what I do. It’s like, the good old fashioned be the one that actually puts in the work, right, puts in the real work So I’m the one, like, on Saturdays. Like, my my kids are, you know, I have classes and things like, I’m working every single Saturday. Like, from eight till 3PM, I’m working. I’m logging that time in. And when that pays off, every single time that reduces my my worry that I’m gonna be behind, because I know I’m out out working you know, anyone that I’m worried about. So I think that that ability to rely on your work ethic and your ability to think outside the box. And the other thing is my brain. I feel like my brain always gives me great ideas, and I know that’s all like crazy. But, like, even during COVID, I was like, holy crap. What are we gonna who’s gonna wanna coach right now? You know, during this crisis. And, like, ideas came to, wait, what about this? And, like, I feel like that’s always been really there for me that survivalist, like, mine said, that you need as a business owner to pivot and not go down that same. So my whether you call it my brain or a calling, like, I keep getting, like, ideas. That I rely on because that’s always helped me, you know, think about new ways to improve my career. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how do you how do you work with those ideas? Like, I so I’m a idea person as well. There’s constantly things rolling through my mind. But what what do you do with those ideas? You have a spot in your phone? Do you have a journal? Like, what do you do with them? And then do you test them out to make sure they’d work before you kinda go live with any of those? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Well, when you’re really good at marketing, that’s actually a problem because you could literally Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Didn’t turn off. Yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Well, no. You could also make any business kind of work out. Like, I always think my biggest problem right now is I don’t have time because I have like five other business ideas that, like, you know, I could, like, kick off it. Like, I could start a kid’s school program. I’m really I think there’s so much of a need right now for different types of schooling. Like, teaching kids etiquette, teaching kids leadership public speaking. If I had the time, I would I would build it. So what I do is I do have, like, on my to do list. We used to use this program called to do is for project management. Now we all moved to Asana, which I really love. But I have I have like a personal section and it’s, like, called ideas. And I just, like, write it, you know, I just write it down when it’s, like, outside the really out there. But a lot of times when it’s like business ideas, a lot of times I just test it out with clients. I say like, oh, we we also offer this. We do offer this. If you’re gonna come, I do that. So I I’m also a really big fan of, you know, the Kevin Cosner movie, field of dreams that says Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: You build it, they will come. I believe the opposite. If they come, you will make it. Is, like, it’s always a philosophy. So I always, like, kinda pitch the idea softly to clients as they we do this. Just to see if because as long as I know we could do this. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: And then if there’s demand, I build it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So you kinda build it for you build it second after you see there’s a manned. And, yeah, I I I watched the Richard Branson on Master Class or whatever it was, and he talked about, you know, he started an airline, he started a magazine, all these things. He started out of frustration of another process. Right? He was standing in line. It took forever, bag, you know, to pay money for his bag, all this stuff. He’s like, you know what? I’ll fix this. I’m just gonna start my own airline. So it’s kinda what I’m hearing from you is that somebody needs it, somebody desires it, and then you don’t get stuck by the old paralysis by analysis is what I’m hearing. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: No. I don’t. In fact, that’s the problem. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Like, running with too many ideas and if I had the time because I know SEO really well, I know blog writing skills, I know how to promote a social media. I could easily get that up and running. But right now, I have enough on my play doing that for my existing client. So Yeah. I feel like not only do I have selected advisors, but I have like, you know, twenty at a time clients that we’re promoting, helping the market. So it’s more than enough. Yeah. Exactly. And our clients are really like they’re different than financial advisors because they’re a lot hands on, and it’s almost like I’m part of their team, basically. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. That’s awesome. So when you hear that though, I talked about paralysis by analysis. Are you seeing that out in the marketplace and what advice would you have for that man or woman listening right now? How to overcome that because I’ve seen it and it’s hard to just tell us me, hey, don’t worry about it, man. Just just go do what, you know, the rest of us do and just go build it as you go and and it’s they don’t don’t work that way. So how do you help them with that? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Well, that happens all the time, you know, with the paralysis, analysis by over analysis. In fact, I I have a test on my, on my website that I actually created literally to help people, like, make a decision really quickly. Which I could send you. But I think it it all boils down to that word that we use, which is risk. Right? A firm, let’s say, has been in business for thirty, forty, fifty years. They’ve built their client base, and they did it by word-of-mouth, building this great reputation. Now, if it’s not in here, it comes Amy and telling them to, like, let’s start posting on social media. And they’re like, well, we haven’t needed this before, and now we could potentially this is the part that they’re worried about. We could potentially risk our reputation. And yeah, I agree. Your reputation is all you have to go for it. So I’ve believe it or not, I’ve stopped basically pushing so hard. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s another thing you you learn as you Speaker Amy Parvaneh: grow, the more mature you I’ve stopped pushing it and I just do it for my social media. I go crazy with social media. I test on my account So I could show them like, look, I did this. I shared my full name. I shared my vulnerabilities, and it worked. Now, you could choose if you wanna do that to kinda like painting, you know, like, you could keep your room clean and let them make their room a mess and see which one they choose they like more. I’d like to talk to your blue in the face, telling people to do social media. And then if it really doesn’t work, because so much if it out of your control, then you’re left with, you know, an embarrassment. So I just take them to the water and I let them drink if they want it. I’ll build out their platform. I’ll make it look as ready to go. I’ll write them their message. The firms and the clients that do really well are the ones that are like, you’re the expert. I mean, you just go wild. Go do what you want. Just run it by compliance, and those are the ones that get the traction, get the get the views, get the followings, and, you know, they also understand it’s a long term game. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Just like I wouldn’t ask a financial advisor what’s been your performance over the past year? You know, marketing is the same. You’re building equity. You’re building, you know, something that will pay dividends for years. Is the way I look at marketing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I think so many people too, they wanna see that immediate thing. Well, Brett, I’ve been I’ve been doing this posting thing for, like, two months. I’m like, Dude, congrats. I’ve been doing this podcast for, you know, six and a half years. Like, it doesn’t happen overnight. It’s it’s gotta be consistent. You gotta show up. Gotta do the work. And, and and it is what it is. And you fail along the way. You succeed along the way, but you gotta take action. You gotta do it. And so this morning I was with, I don’t know, forty five or fifty high school kids, and it was fun because I get to speak to them and and, you know, you bring out this energy they have at seventeen, eighteen years Gilliland and it and, you know, they ask questions that makes you dust off the old, you know, folders and files of things you did when you’re in your twenties and and now here I am in my mid forties. And and so it was a good use of time this morning, but it it made me think about a question I wanted to ask for you today is advice for yourself. That was something they asked me a lot of. What advice would you give yourself of the seventeen, eighteen year old or the twenty two year old, Brett? What advice would there be? And and, you know, I kinda came up with my three things. But the first one was just relax dude. It’s gonna be okay. Right? Yeah. And then I gave him three other things. But what advice would Amy have, for that, you know, twenty, twenty five year old, Amy, that maybe needing some advice at this moment. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Well, one of the things when I was you know, starting out as a financial advisor, and I see this happening with a lot of the younger advisors too. Is this like you know, imposter syndrome, do I belong here? Is this sixty year old guy gonna be giving me his money? I think that’s a very common thing that people who are young in their, you know, I still, like, I can’t believe I’ve even said, like, that I feel I I I feel like not that old, but Right. But I I feel it’s weird, like, talking to your all younger self. But, yeah, I mean, I feel like if you don’t have the gray hair, if you if you don’t have the experience, you’re going to feel, you know, kind of, like you’re missing something. And one of the things I did was, I was not, finance, as I mentioned, was not my expertise. Like, I could talk all day long about who just sold their business. You asked me how the, you know, the what the Fed did that day or interest rates or the FX markets and I would freeze. That was my Achilles heel, one of them that I felt like, oh, you know, like, I I would dread it. And I think one of the things I would teach I would tell myself, looking back, is work on those technical skills that you feel you’re low on because the younger you are, the better you better be those areas to make up for that, lack of experience. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: You know, a sixteen year old guy would take a guy in his twenties really seriously, if he was talking with confidence about the markets, even if he wasn’t there during all the historical, you know, crises and, you know, happenings in the market. The other thing is I I tried too hard, and I think I wrote about this too in some of my posts. I tried too hard to fit in, you know, to be, like, you know, to do the small talk, play golf. And I felt like those were, like, I needed to do those, but you don’t need to do those. Right? Like, try to outshine and other other places, in order to, you know, to really succeed. And, yeah, I think the other thing I would have done is you know, started even building my business even sooner. You know, that would be another thing is, like, if you feel you’re good at selling, and marketing yourself and personal branding, go work for yourself because otherwise you’re just really, you know, kind of making someone else successful, you know, like they say, they’ll work eighty five hours, then work forty hours for someone else. Yeah. So, yeah, But only if you know down in your core that you’re great at selling and marketing yourself because those are the two things you really need in order to be a good business owner. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s funny you say that. So another one of the questions today that that, and they were very clear. They said you know, this has nothing to do with your personal life. What are you most proud of? But professionally, they said, what are you most proud of? And, you know, I talked about our firm and you know, the culture and all that stuff. But then it it also hit me too. I’m like, you know, I have never worked for somebody. I I’ve never had a quote quote job. I I started right out of college and, you know, I get this diploma and I go work a hundred percent commission, you know, and thank god. My Fiance, now wife at the time, and wife now, but fiance at the time, you know, believed in me supported me. My parents didn’t they weren’t like We did what? We paid for your college, and now you’re gonna go work a hundred percent commission. You full. Right? Like, that wasn’t there, but I’ve never I’ve never got a paycheck. I’ve had earn every dollar that I’ve made, and and I’m proud of that. But I think it does take that unique person because I’ve also had people that now in our forties are like, you know, I wish I would have done something like that when I was in my twenties. But, you know, now they’re like, I got a house. I got two or three kids. It’s hard to go do that. Right? But I think sooner or later, they’ve gotta take that step and and be willing to fail. And I think once that passion and that desire, when we started visionary wealth advisors, when I left my previous firm, we had three kids. My wife was pregnant with our fourth. We had just built a home. But I wanted it. Right? I was hungry and I wanted to go out and build this thing and and and we were able to do it and we pulled it off. But I think sometimes you just gotta believe and you just gotta go take action. Thoughts on that? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Absolutely. I mean, that goes back again to, that that’s why I said if you’re good at but you probably knew one thing that you’re good at building building a story, building a thing, you know, building a vision. That’s probably why, you know, you’re probably successful at it. Same with me. I knew I was I I broke every stereotype, getting the job at Citi Gilliland investment banking. Yep. You know, built one, block in me knowing building my confidence, then at Gilliland, then I knew so I knew, you know, my career was showing me I’m good at building things. Right? So I think that’s one of the things I’m really proud of is that I’ve been able to break all stereotypes you know, coming to the US as an immigrant and getting a job that only Parvaneh and Yale kids were getting, you know, that job at City Group, I had an investment banking. That was the only one that went to I went to undergrad at Stonybrook, which is like a name. No. You probably may have not ever heard of it. That was my undergrad. Every other kid was like Ivy League. So Right. That was stereotype break because I didn’t speak English until I was twelve years old. So, like, to get that Parvaneh then to, literally pull the band aid out of Pymco, and I was getting a really nice paycheck there. And even then, I I also got a few other job offers, and they were double that even, but I still gave those up to start select advisors. That’s what I’m really proud of is like what I’ve built. And I I I think it’s really important to also be proud of something you’ve built a hundred percent on your own. You know, one funded me. It’s a hundred percent self funded. I did go to some investors at the beginning, and they were like, yeah, this isn’t gonna work. And, you know, now it’s too late because I feel like I’ve built it and it’s pretty expensive. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Now they wanna invest in it. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Exactly. So you know, all of that just builds my confidence and I know what I’ve been doing has been right along the way. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what would I find if I were to follow you around and, follow you with a camera so this would be not to be creepy. Right? But I follow you around to see your habits. Right? And so what would I see kind of the no mis items in Amy’s life day in and day out? No mis items. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: No missed items. Yeah. So like I said, I’m really adamant about my running. Yep. So that’s like my That’s my sanity. One of my sanity is I run even when there’s like a fire here in California. Like nothing stops me from that. That’s my sanctuary. A lot of time thinking about work and doing work, and then it’s kids. You know, I’m a single mom, so I handle my own kids, on my own. So, you know, it’s work, run, and then the kids. And then, you know, my time alone. I really am into, like, music. So I’m all about, like, going to concerts and music fast of all. Very cool. And it’s like my, like, work hard play hard, you know, approach. Because I feel like that’s, like, the only thing that, like, really reignites my energy. I also see a lot of creativity in those places. I see a lot of cool, like graffiti art and, like, the the type of sponsorships of, like, brands with music, and, like, I like to bring some elements of that into the financial world. You’re, like, how do you co brand with a large name or things like that? So that inspires me too. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, I get bucket list items. You’re a bucket list person? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: I am. I am. Yeah. Although I feel like I actually wanted to write somewhere that I feel like I’ve pretty much lived most of my bucket list items because I feel like I’ve you know, building select advisors is like one of the biggest things. You know, bucket list is supposed to be something that’s like, kind of almost like impossible to get to. Gilliland I think I have. But I do have one bucket list, which is to stay at the Mandarin and Gilliland Lake like, calm off. That’s, like, it’s, like, sitting there. Ready to go. Yeah. That Speaker Brett Gilliland: one, please. Somebody called it an effort list. Just like, effort. I’m gonna do that. Right? It’s not a bucket list to your point because I was like, I’m just gonna do it. Right? And so I’ve thought about that. I’m like, I like that. I like that way of saying because you’re right. Buck list seems like, This is a pipe dream. This will never happen. But I think if we, you know, have clarity around where we wanna go and and create time in our calendars, we can make those things happen. So just say the effort list. So you have your outside CMO. You’d help with branding. We talked about that referral litics. Tell us a little bit about that, brag about your company Select Advisors Institute. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. So as we said, we basically are one stop shop for Financial firms and teams to do all their marketing. You know, the only three things we don’t do is advertising. I’m not a big fan of paid marketing, you know, Google ads, things like that. I’ve never spent on advertising, and I don’t want clients to feel like they need to. Unless you’re willing to compete with the firms, like, Fisher investments that have a three hundred thousand dollar a week budget. Right? You don’t need to do that. You could do organic marketing. So I’m all about, you know, so we don’t do, advertising. We don’t do any printing, and then we also don’t do any, like, we don’t we’re not event planners, but everything else we’re doing, within select advisors from all the way from, like, I’ve renamed at least a dozen firms. Oh, wow. And then I’ve basically rebranded and built out an entire marketing material Gilliland collateral for about a thousand RIA firms and teams. So helping them with branding, coming up with unique ways of saying who they are. And then from the day to day, you know, posting on social media, writing your blogs, website, maintenance, website coding, all of that. I like it. And every four weeks, like, Yeah. Referraltics is just like an ancillary part of what we do. It’s for firms who have a really nice rolodex of clients, but it really hasn’t come about, who those people know. We actually research and do the analytics on those people. So that that way, instead of the small talk that you have during your quarterly reviews, you could actually say, hey, I noticed you’re on this board, and I noticed someone else went to Stony Brook. Would you mind referring me to that person? So you’re making it easier. I’m basically saying I already know your person. Can you just, like I Speaker Brett Gilliland: know you know him. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Exactly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. That’s the step ahead of the step. Right? Last couple of questions here for you, Amy. So, how about you know, in our business and again, whether I think a lot of businesses you’re in sales. Right? I mean, even doctors you gotta sell while your practice is better than next. Right? And so How do you what advice do you have for people that don’t enjoy networking? And they don’t enjoy, you know, going to the cocktail party and shaking hands. Like for me, I know I I just I don’t enjoy that Gilliland so, but what advice do you have for people like me or like others that may not enjoy it, but we know we still gotta go do it sometimes. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: We’re both doing it right now because I don’t enjoy not working either. I don’t enjoy Galas, at all. Like, that’s not how I built any of the purposes, and you don’t saying. So, yeah. So believe it or not, majority of successful business owners are introvert or or, you know, or I guess, social introverts. Right? We we don’t get energy from going to those. In fact, those don’t work, typically. Like, going to gala, like spending the whole night and spending all this money and meeting one person. I like to do what you’re doing, which is broad marketing, like lots of different people. Whether it’s using social media. I do a lot of email blasts, you know, to to, you know, get get email lists, get by email distribution lists, whether, you know, or or have someone like our firm research those names for you, get by CEO list, by RIA list and start, you know, dripping on them. And, and that’s, for me, the most efficient way. I also have a lot of people on my social media team were adding, you know, helping me organize my social media, list. You could you know, you you really if you don’t enjoy the broad, you know, or the networking, that’s it’s actually a good thing. You should but you should start embracing these other ways. More digital basically digital should be your friend. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And are you finding that that’s the way a lot of people are getting business these days? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Website leads coming through. People, like, you look at some of the firms out there with millions of followers. They are writing blogs, writing books, you know, they’re not out there networking. They’re just people come to them at a certain point. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah. I would say it’s like the it’s like the train, the the the the magnets either connect or they don’t connect. Right? They repel each other. And I think if, you know, you have good values, you get good Gilliland you’re doing good work, the the referrals come in. I, you know, I know when I was in my twenties, it was begging people for referrals. I’m like, oh, gives me anxiety even thinking about that. But, yeah, I just I just think that’s, that’s good. It’s good to hear and can firm that it’s it’s not around, you know, networking events and and it’s not the way to build it because I I hundred percent agree. So, kinda last question for you. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: I was just gonna have one more thing. Yeah. So it’s it’s not either networking or nothing. Right? And I feel like that one of the best quotes I heard recently was doing a good job is not a marketing strategy. Like, that’s not, you know, you can’t just rely on that. So you have to have something that’s actively being done. And it’s you don’t need to go network to balance, but at least do something which is more digital. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. I agree. So how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind over your career? It’s one of my favorite questions to ask. So how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind over your career have actually blown up to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Zero. You’re right. I mean, yeah, the bag I I still have the bag lady syndrome worry, you know, that you’re gonna, like, end up being homeless. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: And, you know, it’s been a good thing, right, the big fear that’s is that anxiety But, but, I mean, when you hear the stats of, like, well, I can’t you probably know this better than I do that, like, sixty percent of the US is living paycheck to paycheck. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Crazy. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Or they don’t have more than, like, a hundred thousand dollars in retirement. You and I could start being like, we’re like, what’s wrong? Like, why are we thinking this way? You know? What what are they thinking that I’m not thinking? So I think we’re a little bit too worried about things, the worst case scenario. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. I agree. So I said last question might lie. This is last question. You can see here this sticker if you’re watching, future greater than your past. So our our firm’s, mission is to help people achieve a future greater than their past. Again, doesn’t mean people have a bad past, but I think everybody wants a better future. So when you hear that, kinda what’s that what’s that feeling it gives you to help you achieve a future greater than past? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. I mean, I feel like I’m, right now, select advisors at one of the best places they possibly be. We have an amazing team in house outsource that I’ve also sourced and found. Yeah. Love the best talent I could think of. And, we basically have our recipe down, how we write what we think. So it’s that’s what I’m excited about. It’s like, you know, now it’s no longer like each time we’re like, oh my gosh, what where do we start here? It’s every single time we come to a client with even more and more resources and and capabilities and tools. And that’s what makes me really excited. It’s like it it’s like almost like going to a college that’s gonna basically be paying for itself down the line for for any client that joins us. So that’s what I’m really excited about. It’s like knowing that that’s something that they’re, you know, that I’m able to give to my clients. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. I love it. Well, Amy, working on listeners find more of you. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Oh, on our website, select dash advisers dot com, plural, or go to amy’s linkedin dot com. And that’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: Amy’s linkedin dot com. Yeah. It’s that’s the It’s a nice and easy one right there. You got lucky on that one, Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Right. You should get that. Go to, go to GoDaddy and see if Brett’s linkedin dot com as it will. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, nice. I like it. I’ll have to check there. So there’s we could have had this whole podcast. Just be that. You say that. We cut it and we’re done. Just gotta go daddy and Speaker Amy Parvaneh: find it. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like it. I love it. Awesome. We will put all this in the show notes and send people your way, Amy. It’s been awesome having you and, appreciate your time on this of success.    

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, Brett Gilliland interviews Adam Thatcher, co-founder and CEO of Grace Farms Foods. Adam shares his story of growing up with a World War II veteran father and how it has shaped his values and work ethic. He also discusses his business model of giving away 100% of profits and the Philanthropic Enterprise Act. Adam also shares his own personal approach to time management and the importance of having a purpose in life. Lastly, they talk about how taking action and believing in yourself is key to success. Full Interview   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, I’ve got Adam Thatcher with me, Adam. How you doing? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Doing awesome, Brett. Glad to be here. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome having you, man. The background looks cool there. It looks like you’re probably at Grace Farms out there in Connecticut. Is that right? Speaker Adam Thatcher: That’s right. That’s right. Grace Farms is just this amazing cultural and humanitarian center that I’ve got the pleasure of being able to be a part of and getting to create something really new there. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we’re gonna dive into it, man, because it’s a cool kind of a new business model and something I think people just need to be aware of and, came across each other through social media somehow and, And now all of a sudden, here we are, on the circuit of success podcast. It’s a small world. I interviewed, interviewed somebody today and didn’t even know it until my research. But, you know, she knew this person, and I knew, you know, it’s just it’s a small world. It’s it’s crazy, isn’t it? Speaker Adam Thatcher: It is. It’s amazing how one or two degrees of separation is it’s it’s They say those big degrees, but it’s usually a lot less. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Exactly. I don’t disagree with that. So, well, you are the co founder and CEO of Grace Farms, Foods, And, but it’s a it’s an unbelievable one hundred percent of the profits goes to, your guys’ foundation and charities. And, it’s just a it’s a great business model. But before we dive in all that stuff, Adam, if you can, I’ll always like to start with what’s made you the man you are today, which I know is a big loaded question, but you don’t just wake up and do the things that doing. So I’m curious on what the backstory is. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. Right on. Well, I think that what made me who I am today is certainly my experience is growing up, having a really unique sort of family set up. My, my father was a World War II veteran right somebody who was born in nineteen eighty four, that’s not you do not talk about something pretty uncommon. And that truly was the greatest generation, you know, not only to have the bravery at twenty, twenty two to go off to war, and be in the submarine service in the Pacific, but then to come home and really build our country to what it is today and to be able to, like, grow up with that type of work ethic being surrounded by that, I think, is really a driver for my own passion to create things make a difference, and leave some kind of legacy that, you know, I think my kids would be proud of. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what did you learn from that? Do you think? Biggest takeaways for that, if if did you have older siblings as well? Or are you, Speaker Adam Thatcher: So I’m Speaker Brett Gilliland: the youngest six. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. Okay. And, you know, I think from that is having the biggest takeaway I would say is that every day is an opportunity to make a difference. And there’s no sense in spoiling it. Right? There’s enough hours in the day to contribute in a positive way to your community, to yourself, but then also to create that moment of leisure for yourself too, whether it’s, you know, putting your kids to bed, it’s you know, sharing a drink with a neighbor who might be going through a hard time, whatever it might be. There’s definitely enough hours in the day to make every day count. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that. Let’s let’s stay on that while we can. Because I’m a big believer in that. And so we all can be busy. We’ve all got the same twenty four hours in the day. So I I look at as itself management time management. Can’t manage time. And, so talk about that. What’s your schedule look like? I mean, you’re a busy, you know, co founder, CEO. I’m the, at the same thing. Co founder and CEO of our firm, things are busy. Right? You get kiddos. I got kiddos. We can give a million excuses of why we can’t find time for leisure in putting our kids to bed, but it’s important to you. It’s a value of yours, I would assume. So how do you do that? Let’s kinda dive into the weeds if you will and help our other fellow business owners that listen to this. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Right on. Yeah. Well, I I have three kids under the age of six. Just sent my, my five and a half year old daughter to kindergarten today first time. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, boy. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Which was an amazing, you know, milestone for us as Speaker Brett Gilliland: a Tears. No tears. Speaker Adam Thatcher: No tears. Luckily, because I got to drop her off instead of getting putting on Speaker Brett Gilliland: a bus today. So that Speaker Adam Thatcher: was our good attitude. And, you know, What what does a day look like? Right? So I I tend to wake up early, right, probably anywhere between five and 05:30, spend the morning to myself. I like to do a lot of stretching. I like to drink a lot of water and tea in the morning to really get my my body prepared for everything else that’s coming. And then, taking care of my kids in the morning is the best thing. Right? Getting them up, making breakfast for them, talking to them about how great their day is gonna be, so I can find them for a successful day, and, and, and the ways that they define success, which is mostly fun and learning. And then, and then as soon as I drop them off, I’m able to just switch my mindset into, okay, what’s on what’s on the docket today? If not having that already prepared the night before, if I need to get it prepared the night before. And I use that drive after dropping the kids off to say, okay. How am I gonna make the next eight hours, the most productive eight hours they can possibly be before, you know, I transition back into family. And then after I put the kids to bed, I’d like to take an hour or, well, first, I always we always dedicate fifth we tried to dedicate fifteen minutes, between my wife and I, right? Like, how was your day? Like, tell me how you’re doing, hopefully being at giving ourselves a chance to even do, a little bit of bible study if given the opportunity as well, some self improvement and, and, you know, couple improvement together, investing that time is really important, and then taking another hour to sort of that max. For a little bit more work prepping for the day before the following day before I go to bed. And believe it or not, still get about, you know, seven hours of sleep a night, which is all that I need. I know some people need more, but, that’s what Saturday, Sundays for is pick Speaker Brett Gilliland: up that extra hour. That’s right. Decrease that sleep debt. Awesome. Just taking them some notes there. Love that. So do you exercise? Are you a big exercise guy? I know you said stretch and all that stuff. You a big fitness guy? Speaker Adam Thatcher: You know, funny enough. I’m not. I’m a big skier. I spent eight years living in Lake Tahoe, California. I worked for two amazing ski resorts out there on the North Shore. And so that was my daily exercise routine. And I am not a big exercise person, but I find that my own daily routines of a healthy diet and stretching ends up being enough for me. I’m a passionate and avid gardener. So on the weekends are usually spent with a shovel in my hand, putting, you know, moving plants around and that sort of thing. I end up busting enough of a sweat that I haven’t, you know, Haven’t haven’t put on too much of a of a dad thought. I doubt it yet. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. That, Edgewood Resort out there in Tahoe. You been there? Speaker Adam Thatcher: So I’ve been to, a number of them for sure. I had the pleasure of working at, what was Squa Valley and Alpine Meadows, which is now Palisades Tahoe. Home to some of the the best big mountain skiing out west. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. The Edgewood golf course there is amazing. I’m a big golfer, so loved it out there. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s beautiful. So, so again, continuing on this routine thing. What what would I find if I followed you around day in and day out? Again, imagine the person listening this now is exercising and driving down the road, and and they’re busy. They’re in their schedules. What what do I see from you from either time management? Again, you said you can’t manage that. So self management but buffer in your calendar? Are you a back to back back meeting guy? Like, what’s that look like for you? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. It’s a great question. I would say that while undiagnosed, I will, I will diagnose my, myself as having a slight ADD. I like to multitask on many different things so that I’m never waiting for a response, and when that magic moment pops in your head, I like to be able to hit it right away and then come back to what I was doing because I think that different work areas inform how you’re gonna be the most successful in, a certain topic. So I, at any time, I’ve got probably about ten to twelve tabs open on, right, on on Google Chrome. And I like to jump between them, so that I’m constantly making progress together. And what it ultimately turns into is, those I consider that my version of being focused. When other people watch me, they can’t stand it. But it ends up creating sort of this, where all the boats are rising at the same tide. And, right, a billiards player of sorts, right, It’s, it’s the Catumbola where all three balls fall at the same time, right? And so, and I find that that’s a way to reach sort of like compounding results. Is when you’re succeeding at multiple things throughout the day, even if it’s a small success. And I like to try to write down my successes, right? This is not too big of, of a mind blowing thing, but having the list and, and checking it off. And that can be done the night before, the morning of, and that order isn’t linear, right, in order the way I think it it shouldn’t be. Right? Sometimes it’s all over the place, but you’re just drawing circles, connecting this dot to this dot, crossing it off, and then always dedicating, I try to dedicate thirty minutes a day to just outreach, right? And so relationships that I already have, right, shouldn’t be surprised if you get an email two months from now. It just says, hey, I really loved our conversation. Like, hope you’re doing Gilliland if you’re ever in the area would love to connect. Right? As simple as that. And keeping in the forefront of people’s minds, then and that’s the sense of community. Right? Because I’m not in this by myself. There will be times when I need to lean in and get help. And a cold reach out is much more difficult, and it appears certainly that you’re only interested in serving yourself when the whole that’s contrary to the whole concept of what we’re doing at Grace Barnes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. You know, it’s funny you said that, like, you’ll reach out and and, you know, come by. And I think it’s so important one of the things. So I’m forty five years old. I’ve been doing this for twenty two years now in the wealth management space. And and when I was forty, so five years ago, I wrote down forty things I learned in my first forty years, but really it’s about my business, right, in the business world. And I, one of the things I said was take the meeting. I have so many people in in any business. Right? Like, oh, well, I’m not gonna do that because they just want me to come there, and I’m, you know, my time is valuable, and I’m gonna get paid. Little blah blah and all this stuff. And I and I have found over the years that I have done a lot of free meetings. Right? And but those meetings and I don’t do them any other reason, just I don’t know. I don’t probably be able to help you. You’re gonna be able to help me be a good person. Let’s go have fun and and have a great meeting. And I think that you’re what I’m hearing and one of my research has shown is that you would agree with that concept as well. Take the meeting. I don’t know what the hell’s gonna happen, man, but some amazing things happen when you get good people together. Agree. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Totally. And also being transparent, right? Let’s not beat around the bush. If we’ve only got forty five minutes for a cup of coffee or catching up, you know, share what your interests are, what you’re focused on also. And then next thing you know, they’re like, hey, I happen to know the the inability officer at this and they would love to hear from. And that’s where the network grows. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. The circle just keeps getting bigger, didn’t it? So, let let’s talk about this. So so people understand exactly what you’re doing. You guys give away a hundred percent of your profits. And so I’m gonna have you explain this because you’ll do a hell of a lot better job than I will. But talk about this business model, and this is where I came across it in Forbes Magazine as a write up about y’all. And so let’s let’s talk about that. What does that mean? We’re giving away a hundred percent of our profits. And why is it a new business model that people should be thinking about? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Right on. Right on. Well, so the way that you guarantee you’re giving back one hundred percent of profits is that you’re one hundred percent non profit owned. And the way that this model works, which is a whole new type of business model that’s been allowed now for only about four years, is you need to have a great organization like a nonprofit foundation, such as what we have is Grace Farms Foundation, which is the owner and manager of this amazing place called Grace Farms. So well worth a Google, even better, go to Google images and take a look at what the space is. But it is this world class cultural and humanitarian center designed by these incredible architects based out of Japan. It’s a beautiful piece of modern architecture that is a community center to the local and global community. It’s open and free to the public six days a week, and not only do we want to want to create a space that everyone feels welcome, but that they also feel empowered to make a difference in the world, make the world a better Gilliland we found that our unique space to be able to do that is, through our our justice work. The humanitarian work, which is focused around ending forced labor. So it’s become more and more, known problem in the world in the last several years, but in basics, like, terms, there are twenty eight million people that are still trapped in forced labor today, right, which is part of modern slavery. And modern slavery is both human trafficking, which is on the sex trafficking side of things, and the forced labor side of things. Right? So when I say forced labor, that’s a combination of people who are being, are required to work under some form of coercion. So their travel documents are being held. They’re being threatened or their family is being threatened. They’ve been, they’ve paid some type of worked visa to go work in another country, and they’re an indentured servant and can’t stop working until that that payment and the insurmountable interest has been paid. Right? So there’s a lot of this dark industry that’s still happening. And believe it or not, there’s more people trapped in, enforced labor today than there’s ever been in the history of planet. We just don’t necessarily know it. Right? And as globalization has continued, it’s only become more and more rampant and United States is the largest, importer of goods made with forest labor. So at this very beautiful, hopeful space, sort of like this juxtaposition of this hopeful space dealing with a very dark humanitarian crisis that we have on our hands. And that’s really in intended so that we could tackle this dark issue in this space that is transparent. Right? The building is all made out of Gilliland so it’s both literal and metaphorical in the way that’s intended to inform the work that we do. But being a cultural space, we host amazing art performances. We host, Nobel laureates who come in people can learn, from these types of amazing leaders around the world all coming and convening at Grace Farms Farms. And then the work we do is from a, an effort called design for freedom, which has a unique focus on ending forced labor in the building materials supply chain. Right? So when you think about the built environment, right? This is the chairs we’re sitting on. This is the windows that we look out of. This is the timber used to make the roof over our heads, the concrete of the floors that we work on. And there’s been this labor transparency pass on this whole industry, which is the largest industry in the world, is is the building and construction industry So this was something that came upon us a couple years into the work that we were doing that nobody’s doing this. Grace Farms happens to sit at this unique nexus of humanitarian work, but also this unique architectural site where we’re bringing people together and it really started to take off when we started doing work with the United Nations University, and a number of other organizations in starting this movement called Design for Freedom, which is now this leading movement. So this was all happening. This was getting underway. And then what happens in twenty twenty? That upends everybody, the pandemic. Right? And I, I had the honor of serving as the director of operations and sustainability for Grace Farms’s Foundation for the first five and a half years. And when the pandemic began, we couldn’t be serving the public in the way that we had been, because people couldn’t come on-site. So we did a bunch of different adjustments on how we are serving community. We became the largest importer of PPE in the state of Connecticut because of unique relationships we had, to be able to import the the the needed safety, equipment for our front line heroes. But we’re also saying like, how do we stay connected with our community? And I was getting my MBA at, NYU at New York University, at the stern School of Business, and was really interested in innovative business models, especially businesses that were focused on giving back ESG focus businesses, B corps, and I stumbled upon this really small change in the iris code in twenty nineteen. Something called the philanthropic Enterprise Act, also known as IRS code four nine four three g, also known as the newman’s own exception. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So Speaker Adam Thatcher: for many people that may be listening to this, you’ve probably had the salad dressing, the salsa, whatever it may be. And so, it’s a result of their company that they’re actually able to get the IRS code changed that now allows private foundations, nonprofit foundations, to own one hundred percent of for profit companies. So that was like the basis of where it Gilliland I’m glad to go into some more detail. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Absolutely. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Great. So discovering this small change in the IRS code, we said, alright. Well, the way that this worked for Neumann zone was they created this successful business, Paul Neumann created it. And then when he died, they transferred one hundred percent of the equity, the newman’s own foundation, but in a beautiful model, The more, more addressing that they sell, the more money they could get back to supporting kids in particular, the work that they did. But the the product itself was not furthering the charitable purposes of the nonprofit. And so we said, well, what if we have a chance to create a business. And not only would we be able to give back one hundred percent of the profits because we’re legally owned by the non profit. So we only have one shareholder, one dividend to pay out, is what if we use this company to also demonstrate and educate about ethical and sustainable supply chains, the work that we do around design for freedom, as I said, But it also becomes a way for us to share this amazing brand, this amazing story of Grace Farms, the beauty of Grace Farms, the space itself through the packaging and the storytelling. So it was with those three goals that we started the company. And then donated it into the foundation. And then we began our mission of creating in our, you know, world. The most impactful business we possibly can create. And so we do that in a number of different ways. We’re a certified B corp, which for those people that are familiar with it or not familiar with it. It’s a rigorous, assessment that businesses can go through from a third party organization called the BLab that, measures your impact as a company on, from a governance side, from a worker’s side, an environmental side, all those factors, pull into that. So, we built the company to be a certified B corp. We are the first and only T brand in the US to partner with, fair trade international, which is the original and really the the gold standard of fair trade organizations here, in the world. And then, and then we also source all of our coffees exclusively from women like co ops as a way to, like, bring some light to the fact that forty two percent of the workers in the agricultural field are women, yet they’re disproportionately underpaid. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. That’s a lot, man. Whoo. Just it’s that easy. Well, I mean, with that though, man, you gotta have passionate leaders. You gotta have people I mean, there’s gotta be some cash on the sidelines. Right? I mean, like, the normal person can’t just do this, I wouldn’t think. But but a couple of things come to mind. So number one, When you talk about design for freedom, I don’t know if this is the the path you’re going down here, but so, I I was just in Oregon on a golf trip. And but when we’re going home with the drive about two and a half hours, from abandoned dunes to Eugene, Oregon, you know, and, I see all these mount or hills, whatever you wanna call them out there at this at this area. And then, you know, the beautiful, pine trees and, you know, one one hillside would be they’d just be gone. Right? They would be logging them and they’d be these big truck bed. And then as we got more into town, We’d see plant after plant after plant with, I don’t know, thousands of trees laying there, perfectly straight cedar trees, right, laying there. And then you’d go down the road. And then at the end, I would see another, factory and it would have, like, what I would just go to, like, one of the home improvement stores and see a bunch of two by Right? Now they’re out in the in the parking lot and there they are. Right? And so it gets me thinking because then I’d see more hills where that one’s empty. That one looks like they’re a hundred foot tall. These look like they’re ten foot tall. It just gets my mind thinking. Okay. Like now what’s the future? Like what’s that look like thirty years from now. Can we continue to do this at the scale we do it to where the real estate market with houses and buildings are being built can we sustain this? Like that that worries me as a country. And so is that in line with what you’re talking about here from the design for freedom, or is that something completely different? Speaker Adam Thatcher: No. It’s it’s completely in line, right? And so for us, we look at it as the definition of sustainability is not isolated just to environmental. Right? That is a incredibly important topic, right? That If we do not take care of this planet, human caused climate change is going to create con continue to create havoc on our planet and ultimately make our planet really not livable for the eight billion people and more that, are live on our planet. However, we also believe that sustainability requires the lens from an ethical stand point. Are we willing to take us define something as a sustainable future at the cost of other people’s freedom? And so Yeah. We are fortunate enough that our country, has strict labor laws that are for the most part managed. I’m not saying we’re perfect. We have a lot of migrant labor in our country, a lot in the agricultural side of things, especially but other places around the world that are fast developing countries that aspire to have the resources and the economy of the United States are willing to step over people’s freedoms and liberties in order to spark their economy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. And so that but that tree thing back to that, I mean, that then you see that being a a real factor of what I saw Gilliland I’m not looking at it from a political standpoint. I’m not looking at it from global warming, any of that kind of stuff. I’m looking at it more from a, can we do this? Can we continue to provide the lumber that we will need to continue to build the buildings that we’re gonna have to continue to build or they’re they because they’ll tear down homes. They tear down buildings and start all over. Right? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Completely. And, the answer is no. We cannot stay at the pace that we’re already going at. And, you know, there’s further certifications out there FSC, which is, for stewardship Council, which is managing responsibly, timbered Forest. But in the end, the majority of the wood that we’re consuming is not. And so, and and the three r’s reduce or use recycle are relevant in any industry, right, even building. Right? And so we we do need to take that that lens in all of our consumption areas. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Makes sense. And, you know, I’m I’m on a, a board now that, I’m not for profit. And we do the coffee thing and source it out of Haiti and And you know, that that is in businesses and people buy it in bulk and and that money then goes and goes to the the people of Haiti in North Lewis, and it’s making a huge impact. So, I mean, I’ve seen it firsthand, and I didn’t even hear about this stuff, you know. So that’s probably why the three or four years ago, I think is when you said it started, that’s about when we started doing the coffee. And it’s an amazing thing for people to be able to give back through business, which we’re all part of somehow, some one way or the other. So let’s talk about more of the habits, rituals, thinking how important is that for you, just spending time thinking about the next thing for you. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. It’s a great question. You know, I find that giving yourself an appropriate amount of time to reflect on the weight of the decision Gilliland how long you should dedicate to it is really important. I would say that it’s something that I’ve wrestled with myself. We did not come out of the gates and had a clear idea on how to penetrate into a hyper competitive market. Right? I agonized over like, why is this not working right out of the beginning? Was up for more nights than I can ever imagine, like, you know, I want to live through again. I I can easily say, right? And most entrepreneurs would probably say this, right, that starting a business the first time is one of the most challenging things you’ll do in your life, from a certainly from a professional standpoint, if not, you know, from a, a complete life standpoint, with the exception of, you know, family issues that you might go through. And so, for me, the the ritual of of reflecting and making sure that you’re giving yourself enough Slack and giving yourself gratitude for all the things you’ve been given, the opportunities is the best way for me to clear my head. When I find myself, you know, laying in bed wrestling with a big decision or not, it’s always helpful for me to just like count through all the things I’m I’m so grateful for, from a family side of things, from a business side of things, all the things that are going great. And then if in your gut that thing that you’re it the difficult decision you’re making, there’s nowhere, like, around it that something you could be grateful for. It’s probably something you should move away from is something that I’ve found, right? And and that’s like your gut and your heart talking to you. But, you know, it’s it’s it’s popped into your mind in a different way. You’re not acting emotionally. That’s the way that I’ve developed my, my my compass of decision making. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. And wouldn’t you agree? Obviously, you have a very clear purpose, but I think in life, you have to have a purpose. And and you can see the sticker future greater than your past is our firm’s mission is to help people achieve a future greater than their past. And it doesn’t mean that that you know, you’ve had a bad past. It doesn’t mean the person listening to this had a bad past. But I think if I, you know, if I was in a room full of a thousand people, I said, raise your hand if you want a future grade in your past, Everybody’s gonna raise their hands. Right? And and so when you hear that, purpose, future grade in your past, Getting you up in the morning at five or 05:30 and keeping you going, would you believe that’s one of the biggest indicators of success for your life is to have a purpose? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Couldn’t agree more. I mean, you’re a rudderless ship. And as we know, it just continues to spin round and round. And you know, I think we’ve all felt that at certain times. Like, you’ve got a guiding purpose in your life, but maybe you’ve, like, gotten distracted acted from what that is, or enough of the challenges have, like, got have have rocked your confidence enough to be able to tap into that. Purpose and let that be your guiding light every morning, but no question. Without a purpose, what’s the what’s the point? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, the Bible says right without a vision, without a purpose, people perish. And so, I think that’s important for us as business leaders as well. And I think there’s a lot of people that may not have that purpose. Currently in their life. And I think it’s people’s jobs to either one through a podcast, books, mentoring, making a phone calls to get somebody to help you with that because I think that’s so important for me. I know it was I was always driven by different things, but when I found that purpose for me purposely, it was a, it was a life changer, man, and it’s something that then guides you every day that allows you to get up. Even on the days you don’t wanna do it, when there’s purpose driven mission there, you’re gonna do it. Whether it’s cold and rainy or not, you’re gonna get up and make it happen. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Couldn’t agree more. You know, and I think I I’ve looked at it as there’s there’s three three important factors that are happening in your life. Right? It’s the the work that you’re doing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Adam Thatcher: The relationships that you have, and where you’re spending your time. Right? Like, geographically, like, what is the environment that you’re in? And if you can optimize those three factors, then you have the ability to like say climb Maslow’s hierarchy of need or reach that flow state. And so if you find yourself, right, you’re surrounded by great Gilliland you’re doing meaningful work, but you’re, you know, in an environment that is not friendly. Right? It’s not inspiring from a place, you cannot possibly give your best. And so that might be as simple as, hey, let’s just take this meeting outside so that we can think a little bit more clearly as a team. And and so those are the types of changes, the small changes that we can make every single day. If you find yourself trapped in a place where like you are surrounded by people you do not like, you need to get out of that situation or find a way to change that situation. If you Gilliland yourself in an environment you do not like, like, right? You do not like the city you live in. Get out, right? It is dragging you down and pulling you back. And I know that’s a scary jump for a lot of people, but wait till you get to the other side. Yeah. It’s worth it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Another one I I think about a lot for people is the paralysis by analysis. You know, like, I think if I I I don’t know this. I’m gonna make a statement and tell me if I’m wrong or not. But when you guys are building Grace Farms Foods, you didn’t I mean, you had a plan clearly had a plan. When we were starting visioning wealth advisors, we had a plan. But sometimes, man, you gotta go. Right? You just gotta take action one of the circuits of success. You gotta take action and you gotta believe in yourself and your team that you’re gonna build it as you go. And I think so many people wanna just think it’s gonna be perfect day one and it’s a muddy mess, man, trudging through the deep valleys and peaks, of running a business. And so would you agree with that as well as I make these statements that you didn’t have this perfect road map that you’re building it as you go? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Oh my gosh. Yes. Certainly no such thing as a perfect road map. I would say, right, what what creates disappointment? Unmatched expectation. So if you live your whole life by saying, like, everything’s gonna be the best. Everything’s gonna be pretty. I’m gonna reach this level of success in my life. Then chances are that, like, yeah, you’re gonna spend a lot of time being disappointed, unfortunately. That’s not to say you shouldn’t be striving for those things. But if you you take those as something that should be granted, man, like, you’re setting yourself up for a really frustrating life. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s a rider downer. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. The, unmet. I write that down. What creates disappointment and unmet expectations? So tell us a little bit more about what Grace Farms actually does. I know you guys coffee and the tea is probably what you’re drinking there and your nice glass is your tea. So tell us about that. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Yeah. Right on. So when we opened the Grace Farms back in two thousand fifteen, We knew it was at this new kind of place. And we said, alright. How are people gonna respond to this unique architecture and this idea that this space is truly free and open to the public. It’s meant to just make the world a better place. And, you know, in today’s world of skepticism that we have that could there truly be genuine authentic intentions behind a place like this, right? And there was skepticism early on from what we were doing there. But we found that coffee and tea was just this common denominator that everyone could enjoy. I mean, right, tea. There’s six billion cups of tea enjoyed around the world every single day. So what makes for, like, a great relationship? Finding something in common with someone. Right? So what better way than you’re either a coffee or a drinker or you’re a tea drinker. Right? And if you don’t like caffeine, that’s cool. We’ve got delicious verbal t two, that’s caffeine free. So we’ve got a warm way to welcome you no matter where you’re coming from, who you are, let’s start a conversation. Gilliland that’s really the ice breaker. And so it became a way of more than just a welcoming greeting. It became the beginning of relationships. And so then when we were closed during the pandemic, we said, like, how could we not only you know, stay connected with our existing community, but how could we grow that community even more? Right? This is the silver linings of a challenging situation like a pandemic. And so we, you know, literally took the inspiration from the cups in our hands and said, what if we were to take this amazing tea and coffee experience that happens at Grace Barnes, and we were to share it with everyone. And so we’ve now got people right from Iowa and Washington State all over the country that have never heard of Grace Barnes, have never been to Grace Barnes. I don’t even know if they’ll ever make it to Grace Barnes, but they’re now connected to it. Right? And it’s It’s the small, like, SIPs, right, of tea is a way for people to be connected to a greater mission, and also for them to find these micro moments of purpose, right, to what we were saying earlier. Right? If you don’t have necessarily that purpose in yourself right now or you’re struggling to say like, boy, these big problems with the world are so big, but I’ve I’ve lost my own purpose because I don’t feel like I can make a difference. Our theory was like, well, what if we could empower people just by making a slight change from the coffee and tea that they’re drinking? And so that they are part of a community, right, that are making a difference and that their decision voting with their wallet, right, conscious consumerism, whatever you wanna call it is all activated and real. So that’s that’s how, like, the coffee and tea has become sort of our signature thing. And then where we’ve gone with it has been really amazing. On the on on a business to business side of things, which is a really exciting channel for us. We’ve found that organizations incredible companies have resonated so much with this message where they’re looking for ways to share their ESG commitments and maybe they don’t have an ESG purpose, right? And so we can help them shape that just by simply changing their coffee and tea. So, for example, Our, our tees are now in JPMorgan, right? How does a small business, like partner with the largest private bank in the world? Because we’re so aligned with our purpose. Right? We know our product is is super top notch. It’s the highest quality. And when we show up, we’re willing to do what it takes to show them that we care so much about the partnership. And that makes a big difference. Right? We’re in with the World Economic Forum, United Nations University, And so it becomes a really easy decision for them, once they meet us, and they they know what we’re about. And so that’s, like, this is where things get super, super fun. Because now we’re sharing our product with thousands of people in a corporate cafeteria that otherwise never would have found grace farms. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I think again, those big companies, though, they wanna be with people that have a passion and a purpose as well. Right? Like, That’s an easy fix for them. You’re gonna buy coffee or tea for your break room. Right? Why not buy something with a passion and a purpose behind it? Speaker Adam Thatcher: Totally. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, working our listeners find more of Adam Thatcher and, Grace Farms Foods, man. This has been awesome. Speaker Adam Thatcher: Awesome. Well, a, thank you for having me. Where you can find more of me is come to Grace Farms. I’m there all the time. Would love to grab a cup of tea or coffee with you, let’s sit down, have a conversation, willing to take the time, and let’s see what doors we can open for each other. Otherwise, feel free to email me. Right? A thatcher, at gracepharmsfoods dot com. Thatcher, t h a t c h e r, just like Margaret Thatcher. And otherwise, you can find our products share gracefarms dot com, or you can go to our, the website gracefarms dot org and learn more about grace farms the space. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. We crushed it, man. Adam, this is awesome. Love to love it, and, love that what what creates disappointment is unmet expectations. Couldn’t agree anymore, my friend. So thanks for being with me, man. Enjoy the rest of the week.  

On this episode of the Circuit of Success Podcast, host Brett Gilliland interviews NBA Skills Coach and CEO of Pure Sweat, Drew Hanlen. Drew shares his journey from a single workout with an NBA player to becoming a full-time trainer. He explains how he gets the world’s best athletes to listen to him, and emphasizes the importance of taking care of the players. He compares his role to Brett’s executive business coach and suggests people should do a self-audit and be consistent in their actions. He also talks about the differences between the best and average players in the NBA and reflects on his own past and his parents’ sacrifices. Circuit of Success | Drew Hanlen   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Drew Hanlen with me, Drew. What’s going on, my Hanlen, Speaker Drew Hanlen: nothing. Just getting ready for workouts today. It’s it’s early, West Coast time. So appreciate you having me on early and and being flexible with your schedule. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Absolutely, man. It’s persistence, man. You’re traveling all over the country and, helping all these guys and, but I wanted to have you on the podcast because it’s, it’s fun to see what you’re doing, man. It’s really cool. So, before we get really dive into some of the stuff, you are the CEO of pure sweat, in in an MBA, strategic skills coach and consultant, you work with all sorts of NBA players. I won’t name drop on here, but people can check out your, Instagram, and you can pretty much see who you work with. But it’s amazing to see what you’re doing. But if you can, Drew, kinda open it up with what’s made you the man you are today. I know that’s a really big, wide open question, but kinda like to see what’s made you the man you are today. Speaker Drew Hanlen: Yeah. You know, I I always tell people that, you know, you’re not only a product of all the hard work that put in, but you’re also a product of, everything that built you and made you. And, you know, if I look at kind of the the things that have allowed me to, achieve whatever level of success, that I’ve been able to have right now, it really starts way back when, you know, the other day, I was driving two workouts Gilliland, I saw a little lemonade stand. And, you know, my girlfriend was in the passenger side, and I I whipped, you know, whipped quick right turn into like a parking spot. And she was like, is everything okay? And I was like, I literally have a rule. I cannot drive past a lemonade stand. Just because, Speaker Brett Gilliland: you know, Speaker Drew Hanlen: I remember myself, you know, making sure that I had eliminated sand when I was younger, and I cut grass when I was younger, and I shoveled snow when I was younger, you know, growing up in St. Louis, you get, you know, all the seasons. So that means you get all the little, businesses as a youngster. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: When you may cut Gilliland shovel snow in like a forty eight hour period too, you know. Yeah. Speaker Drew Hanlen: I know. Right? I know. Right? So, you know, there’s so many moments like that that just snapped me back to kind of the the grind that I had when I was younger. You know, even now, I’m in the product, you know, the process of publish it my first self help book. And, it takes me back to my first ever self published book that I did when I was in high school and sold them out of my backpack and the trunk of my car. Wow. You know, and then even just, you know, the work that I put in with with my players, you know, Bradley Beal was the first ever basketball player that I ever started working with, and I started working with him when he was thirteen. I was seventeen. So I was still in high school. I didn’t know I had to be a basketball trainer at that time, but I did know how to put in a lot of hard work. I knew, you know, consistent work, you know, plus you know, the right work led to good results. And so all I did was I just put him through consistent hard work that was targeting the areas of focus that he needed to focus on and that led to him, you know, finding success as well. So I think that, you know, all the you know, the things that I’m experiencing now, you know, were really just things that I I learned that worked along the way, or me avoiding things that didn’t work along the way. And you know, it’s it’s fun to, kinda reminisce on those times and realize, where you picked up a lot of the strategies that now you deem so you know, dominance in kind of the practices that I do on a daily basis. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, what I love too is, I mean, so you played basketball at Belmont, right, in college and and Hanlen a good career there and then decided to get, I assume, right into the coaching with NBA players. Is that how that went down? Speaker Drew Hanlen: Even earlier. So, you know, Brad Beal, I started with when he was, freshman in high school, I was, junior going into senior year in high school. So that was what kind of started it all. Then I wrote a basketball drill book, self published it at Kinko’s. I went to FedEx Kinko’s. Live them. I was like, hey, I’m doing a school project. I need, you know, two hundred copies. They gave me a discount for it. That’s how I was able to negotiate down, like, the price, to five bucks a book. I went around town, and I sold all those copies sold out right away. And so then I was like, alright. Hey, school project. I made a mistake. I gotta reprint the two hundred, you know, and and I kept doing it and then eventually after like a thousand books, they were like, hey, listen. We know this isn’t for a school project, but we love that you’re also in bustling, like, what is this? And I told him, I said, you know, listen, you know, I I’m a basketball player and a lot of other players wanna know what drills and skills I use on a daily basis to improve my own game. And so what I’ve done is I’ve put together, you know, this book that, allows young players to follow the exact same drills and skills that I do but I end up selling five thousand copies that summer. So you think Wow. As, you know, as a gonna be senior in high school, you sell five thousand copies, making twenty bucks a book. You do the math real quickly. You find out, hey, this is a profession that I can actually make Speaker Brett Gilliland: some money. Speaker Drew Hanlen: And then You know, I started doing weekly academies, at ninety six kids that were paying me a monthly subscription to be a part of my, academies where they got to come in twice a week. And so early on, I was like, this is what I’m doing. And then my big break outside of, you know, training Brad who ended up becoming you know, you know, multiple time all star in NBA was David Lee, another mule is born and raised in Louis. You know, he went to the same high school that Brad did. And, he finally gave me a shot. My sophomore year in college. He was, like, in town. Wow. You know, in Saint Louis, and, my AA coach was his AA coach. And so He was like, hey, you should really give this young kid Drew a chance and he was like, well, I’m not working with a college basketball, but I already talking about, like, I’m in the in the NBA, you know. And, I remember him texting me. And I was in Nashville at the time at Belmont. And, he was like, Hey, bro. He’s like, it’s it’s daily. In town, I’d love to, put some work in with you. When can you go? And I was like, anytime when do you wanna start up? And he was like tomorrow, 8AM. And I remember, you know, finishing up a couple workouts I had in Nashville, getting in my car, driving to St. Louis, getting back at, like, midnight at night, I spent for midnight till 7AM studying film of David Lee so I could really understand the ins and outs of his game. Got to the gym at, like, 07:15 because I wanted to mop the whole floor because I was like NBA guys are not used to the floors that like Right. You know, used to working out these kids on, which are just like gyms with no AC, you know, the water fountain was, like, hanging by the last string. And, and that’s what I did, but one workout turned into me being his full time trainer for the rest of his career and and that really, expedited the process of me being a professional skills coach at the highest level. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, and that’s what I think is, again, fascinating as well when I, you know, follow you on Instagram, and I see the guys you’re working with, you know, they they all look like they’re, you know, seven foot tall. And so how do you What have you done? Obviously, the work and things you just mentioned, but for these, the world’s best athletes in the NBA to be humble enough to listen to this guy you know, that to your point, high school, Belmont, and now doing this, how how do they stay humble enough to listen to you? Speaker Drew Hanlen: Well, you know, I I heard the best quote, was actually from David Lee, who, like I said, was my first NBA client. And I remember us, we were sitting down, and we’re at Cheesecake Factory in Phoenix. And it was the night before, they were getting ready to open up the season against the sons when he was playing for the warriors. And Steph Curry, had made a comment, you know, about something. And David was like, hey, he’s like, Steph, are you gonna go to Seth, his little brother at the time was pointed at Duke, are you gonna go to his opening night game? And he was like, I don’t know why. And he was like, because Drew plays against him. And and Steph was like, Man, he’s like, Drew, I didn’t know you coached, coach college ball too. And he goes, no, no, no, he plays college. And he’s like, wait, wait, what? And he’s like, Drew plays at Belmont. Belmont opens up the season at Duke. So Drew is gonna be opening up partying seth. And Steph was like, blown away. And I remember him asking David. He’s like, alright, I gotta ask a question. Like, how did you eventually trust this college kid that, like, You know, I was playing out a mid major and, you know, averaging ten points a game and, like, what what are you doing listening to this guy? And Dave said a great quote, great quote that that best, kind of answers your question. He said Phil Jackson couldn’t be Michael Jordan, or Shaq or Kobe in one on one. But Phil Jackson could make Kobe and Michael and Jack better versions of Gilliland he said, Drew’s not a better basketball player than me, but Drew can make me a better version of myself, and that’s why I hired him. And so I think that best describes it is, you know, I I’m I’m humble enough to know that I’m a small part of these guys’ games. You know, my job is to make their work at work outs as strategic as possible. My job is to make sure that I’m spotting things on film that they can’t feel themself when they’re out there on the game. My job is to basically do all the dirty work so that all they have to do is put in the right work that they can get the right results and get the best results possible. I also know that I’m leveling them up just a little bit, but that little bit is the difference between them being a all star and then being an MVP or them being, a starter and then being an all star or them being a role player and then being a star. So, you know, I’m really I always say I’m like a GPS system. You know, like, they get in a car. They’re the one doing the driving, but at the end of the day, they’re saying, hey, This is where I’m at. This is where I wanna be. Help me get there in the most efficient and effective way possible. And then it’s also my job not only to put together that road map. But also if they get off course to get them back on and reroute them back on to the track that they need to be on so they can eventually get to where they wanna become. And sometimes we even get past where they wanna become and and get to really special things in their career that they never thought were possible. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s a great explanation, and it makes me think tying the basketball world of the business world. You know, I mean, I’ve had an executive business coach for years. Right? So it’s like, does does that mean they’re a better business guy than me, right, using air so maybe maybe not. I don’t know. But the point is is they can see things in me that I can’t see myself. You know, you look at, you can’t see it. You know, Michael Phelps back here. You know, he had a he had a coach, right? Could that guy beat him in swimming? Nope. But to your point, right? It’s it’s amazing. I like the GPS thing. So, what clearly there’s the physical side of that, but what else are you seeing from a mental side? Because the mental the mental game up here is super important as well. Speaker Drew Hanlen: Yeah. I always talk about the deep games, the deep games, the games that you play in your head and your heart that maybe you don’t even know you’re playing and you gotta win those games in order to you know, win the games that take place on the court. And, you know, I I think that most of professional athletes, don’t realize that they’re they’re not as good at compartmentalizing things as they think they are. You know, a lot of times slumps on the court actually start off the court. And a lot of times, you know, when life doesn’t feel great off the court, it’s because their own court play isn’t great. So they’re so intertwined and deeply connected that I think that if a a trainer only focuses on the player and not the person, they’re doing that player and person such as disjustice. And so, you know, from an early age, I’ve realized that, you know, not only do you have to be able to do the skills, but you have to have the confidence to be able to do the skills and games. And then you have to have kind of the, you know, the awareness to understand that everything off the court and bleed onto the court. And so you have to make sure that you’re completely Hanlen care of them as both a person and player and person comes first. You know, it’s it’s funny because you talked about you having a business coach You know, I’m a a business coach for so many businessmen that make way more money than me, you know, multiple billionaire clients And I always ask them because they always hire me. They’re like, hey, I want you to be my business coach. And the first question I always ask them is I’m like, why would you hire me as a business coach when you’re better at business than I am. And they kind of freeze. And I go, tell me what’s really going on. And that’s when normally I realized they’re really hiring me as a life coach. They just don’t wanna put that tag on it because there’s some kind of stigma behind it but it’s so true. I mean, really, the ultimate goal of professional, you know, sports, ultimate goal of business, ultimate goal of anything, is to find peace in your real world, which is your life, not, you know, the little micro world, which is the sport or business that you’re you know, competing and playing in. And so I think the mental side of it is so important. You know, I’m constantly pushing guys to levels that most people feel uncomfortable with, you know, and I always tell them, hey, the direct number of uncomfortable conversations that you have with yourself or with me, because sometimes I have to dodge them, is going to be kind of a a direct proportion of how much success you have in your career. And I think most people don’t wanna have those uncomfortable conversations. Most people don’t wanna have those, you know, kind of heart to hearts with themselves. Most people don’t wanna look in the mirror and say, you know what? He’s right or I know that I’m right deep down, but those conversations, those kind of self checks those kind of digging deep moments, those are the exact moments that propel people to special special things that, most people just aren’t able to get to because it aren’t willing to have those, you know, uncomfortable times that go with those uncomfortable conversations. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what are you finding? Just stay there for a minute. The the the billionaire, the the business guy, the, the basketball guy. What what are maybe one or two, three things that you can share with our listeners now of Hey, if you could just implement this one thing into your life, right? Maybe they don’t have the means or whatever to hire you or somebody else. So what’s one of the one or two or three three things that you could help with that? Speaker Drew Hanlen: I would say, you know, number one would be doing a self audit. And when I say a self audit, I mean, literally getting into the trenches and asking yourself, you know, what are the stupid things that I’m doing daily that are causing stress and struggles in my life? You know, and not, like, kind of like the keep Juck change ad kind of model. You know, one of the things I need to keep doing that are working, or things that I need to chuck and get rid of, be that aren’t working, what are the things I could kind of tweak and change that’ll really, you know, change the course of, you know, my daily actions. And one of the things that I’m not doing that I should start doing, but keep Chuck Change ad, that would be one thing that I would say would be something very, very good for most people to do that deep audit. Number two is I always say this. Like, think about this. Let’s say, somebody that you love. Whether it’s, you know, your your partner, whether it’s your kid, whether it’s, somebody that you love, a a really close friend, If they say, hey, we need to talk. Your heart drops. Your stomach drops. Like, everything is like, we need to talk. Like, what what’s going on? Well, I always say you should have that conversation with yourself before somebody else does. So if you have some kind of issue, if you’re you’re struggling with your weight, if you’re struggling with drinking, if you’re struggling with stress, if you’re not, spending enough time with your family, if your financial situation isn’t where you want it to be, whatever the the main cause is that’s kind of, you know, one kind of thing that’s overflow life that’s causing all the disturbance. You know, you need to have that. We need to talk conversation with yourself before somebody else has to have that conversation with you. So the second thing I would say is just figuring out what the main problem is and being able to actually address that main problem. And then the third thing that I think if I had to boil it down to three, is consistency. And I think that consistency is where a lot of people slack off. You know, I always say the consistency, trump’s intensity. And I think that both are great. If you can consistently be intense and intense in the right ways, that is awesome. But, you know, you’ve seen New Year’s resolutions all the time where, you know, January first, you’re, alright, here we go. I’m going to the gym. You’re posting about it. You’re tweeting about it. You know, January fourth, you’re like, oh, it’s a brutal, you know, day, but I got after it today. I’m proud of myself. And then January twelfth, the gym’s empty. You know, everybody’s have Speaker Brett Gilliland: goals. Right. Speaker Drew Hanlen: And so I think that there’s so many areas. Think about diets. How many times have people started a diet on Monday. And Friday comes around and the friends invite them to some fancy restaurant and there’s the bread there is just the best bread and they’re going, you know what? One piece of bread won’t kill me. And then after that one piece of bread, well, I already cheated. I might as well enjoy my meal. And then that becomes a, you know what? I’m just gonna have a great weekend and start my diet over on Monday. And it’s like, we know you’re not starting your diet over on Monday. If you do, then you know on next Thursday or Friday, you’re gonna break it again. So I would say the first thing is, you know, making sure that, you know, they do that audit, you know, kind of figure out what things they should keep doing, what things they should change that they’re doing, what things they should add, what things they should chuck, Second thing, you know, like I said, have those, hey, we need to talk conversations, those deep conversations, those uncomfortable conversations. Everybody knows the the thing that they don’t want other people to discover about them deep down. And you’ve gotta discover those things about yourself before other people do. And then the last thing is you know, consistency, trump’s intensity. You know, and I’m big on a hundred percent is easier than ninety five percent, which means, you know, for me, I’m thirty three years old. I’ve never tasted alcohol. I’ve never done drugs. I’ve never never smoked. Never done any of that. It’s easier for me when I go to a night club, somebody that doesn’t know me might say, Hey, do you want a drink? And I’ll be like, no, I’m good. My friends that do know me, they don’t even offer me a drink because they know I am not a drink. You know, and it’s not one of those things where I show up and I’m like, is tonight the night I drink. If ninety five percent of the time you don’t drink, then every single time you go out, you’re gonna get pressured. Your friends are gonna be like, hey, come on, just have one drink, like Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Drew Hanlen: Because they think, like, I’m not a drinker. They think he drinks occasionally, this could be the occasion. And then if you have one drink, it’s, hey, come on. You already have one. What’s two? You know, two is gonna get you. Yeah. And eventually, it’s a scene from, you know, the hangover where the next morning you wake up, you feel bad. You’re, you’re, like, oh my god. I’m off my, you know, I’m off my streak. But a hundred percent means I don’t do this or I do do this. You know, for me, I know every morning I’m gonna do I’m gonna jump in the cold plunge. I know I’m gonna jump in the sauna. I know that I’m not gonna drink when I go out. You know, I know there’s certain things that I do every single day. It’s just who I am instead of what I do sometimes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that. I’m just writing a note here real quick to ask you something later. So what what makes you different do you think? There’s, I mean, there’s thousands of people that would love to trade places you. Right? My I was talking to my buddy, Steve Wienhof last night, and he had some great questions on here. But he’s like, how do you stand out versus thousands of other people that wanna do what you do? Speaker Drew Hanlen: Yeah. I mean, my my simple answer would be that I just get better results. And I think the way that I get better results is by all the things that we talked about earlier, the little things. You know, I right now, I have more MBA clients than than you know, NBA all star clients and any other trainer. And, you know, I’ve I’ve been able to help my clients achieve four billion dollars in contracts. And I still watch more film than any trainer that’s up and coming. I still am doing free workouts for the kids in the parks. Just because I love helping grow the game of basketball. You know, this weekend, I’m going and speaking to, the Missouri coaches association speaking to Illinois Coach Association. I’m running a a camp for five to nine year old so that my nephew can experience his first basketball camp. Those things aren’t money makers, but those things are things that I do because I just truly love helping basketball players, coaches, trainers, And so I think that it’s just the relentless hard work with also the obsession of doing everything that I can to help my clients get the best results possible. You know, it’s weird, but like, I I feel more than my clients feel sometimes after a bad game. Like a regular season bad game. My clients can get over because there’s eighty two games in a season, a regular season bad game. They’re like, it was just a bad game. But for me, when they have a bad game, I look at that as, man, I didn’t do everything that I could to prepare them for that game. Whether it was, it in the summertime, I didn’t spend enough time on their finishing that’s why tonight they had a bad finishing or man, was it their ankles have attacked? Did I not see something on a coverage report beforehand that I should have given them or I’m going through all these questions where they might just be like, I just didn’t have it tonight. So you have to have that level of obsession you know, to me, you know, it’s funny because the definition of obsession is the narrowing of of things that and focus that brings you pleasure. And for me, the things that bring me pleasure is helping other people succeed. Whether that’s a businessman that’s trying to turn their life around, whether that’s somebody that’s trying to become financially free or whether that’s a basketball player that’s trying to achieve great things. It doesn’t matter, but, like, my obsession is helping Gilliland so I think that’s what makes me stand out is that I’m willing to do anything in everything, you know, whether that sacrifice, sleep, sacrifice time. You know, there was a year, I think, five or six years ago, and I spent twenty two nights in my own bed. Think about that. Twenty two nights a month in bed, but I’m willing to do that just because, you know, I put other people’s success over my success. And I think that’s why I’ve been able find my own personal success along the way. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s amazing. Gosh. That’s that’s awesome. So, and and another question Steve talked about is the game has changed so much. Right? Back in the day, you, you know, crossover and, between the legs behind the back was a big deal. Then you got the euro step, the step back jump shot. All these different things now. Like, where do you see the game going? And how do you stay a student of the game? Speaker Drew Hanlen: Yeah. To be honest with you, it’s fun for me because, you know, I remember growing up and my birthday present was one ticket to an NBA game. And my Christmas present was a flight to that NBA game. And I remember, you know, how excited I got, you know, I remember also, like, when I used to get, like, the the new shoes, like, I’d get Tracy Mcgrady or Gary Peyton shoes Hanlen and it would be like, you kept the box in your backpack so that the shoes never got scuffed. Like, you know, I remember all those moments, and now I’m on the other side of things where you know, I get to help the best players in the Gilliland I I honestly get to help pivot the game forward. You know, there is a couple of moves that I’ve invented if you will or created or kind of us on the court kind of brainstormed that now are, staples to to young players Gilliland so I would say that the game is ever flowing. The game is ever changing. For me, I’m watching so much film that if I see a mistake happen, like, say, you know, there was one time in transition that I saw, mono ginobili do something. And he literally stumbled, but the defender reacted a certain way And I said, whoa, why did the defender react that way? If you cross the ball one way and you jab or slide the opposite way, does the defender go with the ball or go with you? And I’m will either way you win because if the defender goes with you, now your momentum is a loading and exploding, whereas their momentum is sliding and recovering, Whereas if they don’t go with you, it’s a quick counter, a crossover, and it changes. And I remember seeing that one mistake where you end up getting Gilliland getting, you know, tripped up and then ends up on the floor and shooting free throws. And I turned it into a one on one move. This is like a decade ago. And now it’s become a pattern. So to me, it’s just trial and error. You try a bunch of things out and the things that are working, you keep trying to refine them until they work better. And then when work better. You keep trying to refine them until they work, you know, as best they can. Yeah. And the things that don’t work, you just chuck them. You get rid of them and say, okay. You know what? We tried it. It doesn’t work. You know, I it’s even to the stuff where you look like right now, three pointers are so heavily valued in the NBA that you know, with some of my clients, you know, we started the side step, you know, Gilliland all these kind of different side step threes and different threes that, you know, ways to get inside the three point line and get back outside the three point line. And then you go, alright. So we start shooting floater threes like runner threes off of one foot. And it takes somebody to try it out and say, okay. Now we chart the numbers. Does it make sense? Is that a good shot or not a good shot? Speaker Brett Gilliland: But there’s Speaker Drew Hanlen: a ton of things that we try on an experimental basis that, never see the light of day. And there’s also things we try that we don’t think we’ll see the light of day, and then they use it in a game randomly because it’s somewhere in here, you know, in their bag of tricks. And, then we say, okay, maybe we were wrong. Maybe that does work. And then we kind of, you know, start to kind of reprogram it. So Where are the trends going? I don’t know. It’s just a constant nonstop thing. You know, I do see, obviously, the analytics have taken control of the game, which means defensively, they’re gonna start taking away what the offense is trying to get, which is gonna open it back up to, you know, kind of the older school modern game where more mid range shots more mid post actions or stuff are are made. But the game’s constantly evolving, which is fun for me just because it keeps that challenge on the board where you constantly have to make sure that you’re not falling behind and and you are preparing your clients for anything and everything that could be experiencing when they’re out there on the court. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what do you see the biggest difference between the best versus the average? And I would say the average in the NBA. Right? They’re still some of the best. But, like, in golf, I look at it is number one and versus like number a hundred and fifty on the p g a two or they’re like, you know, one stroke different. That that’s one putt. Right? That’s one four foot putt. What are you seeing as that quote unquote four foot putt in the NBA? Like to what makes them different. Speaker Drew Hanlen: Confidence. Confidence because there’s different reasons why the best players are the best. You know, you look at let’s let’s start, you know, in the, in the MVP conversation and go down like Joellen Bead, one of my clients, what makes him the best is skill dominance, on both ends of the floor. But again, There’s other players. There’s other big guys. Maybe that can’t do it as well as he can, but they they can still do the same moves and and drills and skills as he Hanlen on zero. But they don’t have the confidence to be able to do it against defenders and games against, double teams and different coverages and schemes. Then you look at somebody like, a Yokich, you know, who’s just unbelievably gifted as a creator, a pastor, great touch, great feel, is IQ. Well, there’s a lot of players that are very smart, that are very skilled that have the ability to make good passes and make good reads. But they don’t have the ability to throw with those cross court passes in a tight space. They don’t have the ability to take the extra dribble to get a little bit close the basket. They don’t have the ability to to do these things when they’re guarded. You look at somebody like Janice. Janice is obviously you know, been so dominant to MVPs, a finals MVP, a defense player, you’re all these kind of things. Yana says, unbelievable, like, will to just compete you know, like he’s not an elite shooter. He doesn’t have elite footwork. He doesn’t have elite ball handling. He doesn’t have elite post moves. What he does have elite is his his ability to compete. You know, he’s worked extremely hard to turn himself into the athlete that he is today with strength and physicality. You see how he’s grown. But there’s a lot of players that play hard, but they don’t have the ability to do what he does because, you know, he just has that extra level. So When you go down the line, each guy has a different thing that they’re good at or great at, but really it’s just they’ve been able to turn it on because You also see players when they change roles like a Mackel bridges, for instance. You know, Mackel bridges was on the the Phoenix Suns and was a a really good role player. But then when he got to the Brooklyn Nets and he had better opportunity, that confidence changed. It wasn’t like he had, you know, in three day span that he changed Jim and got so much better, it was that one is opportunity change and two is confidence in that new opportunity change. And so I think that’s what really helps you know, the best of the best stand out is they have the ability to do it. You know, if you think about businessmen, same thing. How many times Do people have great ideas? Like, they’re watching Shark Tank. And they’re like, I thought of that. But it’s like, did you actually do anything to try to make that thing a reality? No. But somebody else had the confidence to go out there and try to build what you thought of, and that’s why they’re a millionaire or a billionaire And that’s why you’re watching their episode on Yeah. I think that the biggest thing in life is just confidence. Having you know, having thoughts and having ideas is one thing, but having the confidence to act on those ideas and then having the confidence and and kind of, you know, persistence to be able to get past the moments of doubt that are going to be in your way at some point along the lines That’s what makes the best of the best. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Great answer. Great answer. So you mentioned, I know we gotta go here in a little couple minutes, but, you mentioned Sona, cold plunge, what other advice would you have for business leaders, that, you know, I’m not an NBA player. So I gotta treat my body, but I still wanna treat my body well. Right? So what are you recommending people do daily to take care of themselves to be at peak performance. Speaker Drew Hanlen: Number one, keep the peace, which means eliminate everything that is not peaceful in your life. And I mean that. You know, the that’s the easiest way for somebody to feel great. You know, I think that there’s too many people chasing things instead of, you know, eliminating things that would actually help them more than the chasing. I always think of like this, you know, this video that I saw, and it was a long time ago. And it was one of these, like, self help motivation kind of Gilliland there was somebody and they had a ton of weight on their back. And they’re trying to sprint, and they’re not going very fast. And they’re trying to sprint, and they’re not going very fast. And somebody just comes over and helps them take off the backpack, the avoid. And now they start sprinting. And it was like, hey, dude, listen, you can either try to run harder or you can just take off the as extra weight and now you’re gonna be moving a lot faster. And I think that’d be the number one thing I’d say is When I look at everybody from the top athletes in the world, the top business people in the world, they’ve been able to, manage stress and eliminate stress and delegate stress better than anybody else. You know? That’s the number one thing that I would say. Second thing that I would say is, you know, what you eat is is so important. And I think that the easiest way, it’s not there’s not a special diet. It’s just, you know, the foods that make you feel good, eat more of that, and the foods that make you feel bad, eat less of that. You know? And then the last thing would just be exercise. Obviously, there’s so many different you know, studies out there that show you that, you know, if you have somebody that’s fat, that doesn’t, you know, that that does exercise and somebody that’s skinny, that doesn’t the fat person, actually, that exercise is actually more healthy in most cases as long as you’re not super overweight. Ideally, you’re you’re you’re exercising and you’re not overweight, that you’re really winning. But there’s even things that, like, I hope my dad lose ninety pounds in a calendar year. Just doing little things. It was eat half of your meal and then save the half for later. And you realize, okay, you’re just your portion size sucks. And then, okay, every time you’re hungry, drink water before you eat and you realize a lot of times you’re thirsty when you think you’re hungry. And then it was get outside. Hey, put your shoes on, start walking around the block. If you go just a lap around the street, that’s okay. If you’re feeling bad, just get back home. At least you walked. If you’re feeling good, then go off for an hour. Those were the three things that we did to start out and it lost ninety pounds just because what happens is you get in the habit of eating well. You get in the habit of eating smaller portions. You get in the habit of, you know, getting out of the house every single day instead of just the days you feel like it. But I mean, there’s a million things they can do. I think that the problem is when people try to do all they try to, like, start this new program. It’s too much. And then the intensity is there, but not the consistency that we talked about earlier. I would say do little things like I always say starter steps. Like what is the smallest action that you’re willing to take and that you’re gonna do even on the days that you don’t feel like doing them do those, build up the habits and then grow those habits until they become things that actually benefits you in the long run. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love that. It’s so simple. Right? But yet, it’s so powerful because I think some people like, alright. I haven’t worked out in months, but now I’m gonna work out six times this week. It’s like, well, dude, that you haven’t done it at all. So you really think you’re gonna work out six times this week. It’s kinda crazy. So last question for you. Future greater than your past. You can see the sticker here having a future greater than your past. When you hear those words, that’s what our mission is to help people achieve as a future greater than their past. What’s that mean? You. Speaker Drew Hanlen: Yeah. I mean, to me, honestly, I always think back of, you know, how I grew up, and I saw my parents make so many sacrifices for me you know, I remember when I was sixteen years old, and the day before my sixteenth birthday, I remember my mom coming in the Hanlen, and my mom pulled me aside and was like, hey, Drew, just so you know tomorrow on your sixteenth birthday, you’re getting a car. And I, like, start smiling. She goes, now the reason I’m telling you early is because it’s not the car that any of your friends have. It’s not the car that you probably want. It is a car that has a hundred and eighty thousand miles it has a huge dent in the driver’s side, or it squeaks a little bit. You know, the tires squeak a little bit. The brakes squeak a little bit. It’s gonna get you point a to b. But the reason I’m telling you today is because tomorrow morning, when you walk outside, I want you to be happy in as you can be. I don’t want your dad to be, like, sad that you weren’t appreciative of the car. Now a little what you didn’t didn’t know is was so happy just to have a car because it made and, man, I got to get to the gym and back, I got to get to my ride, got some back, whatever. But that, to me, my past, I never realized we were, not as well off when I was younger because you know, when when I got Abercrombie and fit stuff, it might have been a a hand me down or, it might have been from a re use it shop or it might have been from a garage sale. But my parents did everything that they could to make sure that we still had all the things that we needed to have or wanted to have you know, if we wanted to play sports, they made sure that we were on the teams that we wanted to play for. If we wanted to travel, they would, you know, I remember my mom you know, cleaning, literally cleaning houses. You know, just so that my sisters could go to St. Joseph’s Academy, which was a private school that had, you know, sports teams and academics, and she did that so that that they could afford going there. But I just think about that when I think about my past. And so when I think about future beating and greater, I always think about man. At some point in every family’s history, there’s somebody that changes the course of their entire Gilliland I wanna be that person, you know, and and I really do think that that’s the one special bond that my clients and I share. A lot of them come from the same backgrounds that I came from, and we get to be the person that changes that. Like, that, you know, our families aren’t going to have to struggle or stress over financial concerns anymore. Our families are gonna get, you know, my nieces and nephews when they get to go to basketball games, They get to be on the court before the games. They get to meet their favorite players. They get to, you know, FaceTime with, you know, it’s their birthday, and Jason Taylor’s their favorite player. I’m Face timing them with I didn’t get to do those things, but they do because, you know, their future is gonna be better than, you know, all of our collective past. So you know, when you said that, that’s what it brought me back to is just I’ve seen all the sacrifices that my parents made, to make sure that we had such a blessed life. And I also realized that, you know, there are tons of people out there that pray for our worst days. And so keeping for that that perspective in mind, I’m going man. How can I help as many people as possible experience the exact same thing that I’m experiencing, which is this, you know, this this, you know, feeling of you know, most appreciation and gratitude, to be able to do something that I love each and every day when I wake up? Speaker Brett Gilliland: True Hanlen, you are the freaking man. I know you gotta get going. Hang with me when I hit record, or finish recording here, but, man, awesome. Awesome freaking information. Gilliland thanks so much for being on the circuit of success.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Alana Stott, a security expert and Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. Alana and Brett discuss her and her husband’s journey, which began with her husband spending a lot of time in Libya and then cycling from Argentina to Alaska to raise money for a mental health charity. They also talk about the importance of forgiveness and how to let go of resentment and anger, as well as the importance of dealing with disappointment and finding the silver lining in difficult situations. Alana encourages listeners to pick up a copy of her book, She Who Dares. Full Youtube Video     Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your Host, Brett Gilliland. I’ve got Alana Scott with or Stott with me today. I’m sorry, Alana. How are you? Speaker Alana Stott: Oh, it’s okay. I’m completely used to that. Thank you very much. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I told myself I wasn’t gonna do that and here I did it. Be careful what we tell ourselves. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: I know. Well, my maiden name was Dylan, so I thought Stott would be an upgrade, but it’s Stott. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s right. It’s just just as hard. Right? So where are you calling in from? Speaker Alana Stott: I’m in California right now Speaker Brett Gilliland: right now. Okay. Very nice. How’s California weather good? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. It’s been good. Yeah. It’s starting to cool down a bit so I’m again. I mean, the cool down here is still like super hot for scotland. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Yeah. I was just in Oregon, golfing last week in they said they don’t even have air conditioners up there. And, like, we it was like sixty five was the high, and they said it was that was hot for them. So we hit we hit the jackpot, so that was good. Weather was amazing. Yeah. We’re good. Well, if you can Speaker Alana Stott: Go ahead. Pardon me. No. I don’t mind it, but, I I do like to the cooler temperatures for sure. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Absolutely. So if you can, let us give us a little background. What’s made you the woman you are today? You’ve got a lot of stuff going on, and we’ll get to that and and see your books back there in the background. And and Kelly Sharon spoke very highly of you and said, you gotta get her on the podcast, and Then I saw you were in Stott Louis recently Gilliland we’re at, a women in business event. You met Katie Collier. So it’s just a small world. It just continues to amaze me. But if you can, just give us a lay of the land. What’s made you the woman you are today? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. Super small world. Absolutely. Well, I was born in Aberdeen in Scotland, which a small small city in Scotland, but it’s also the oil and gas capital of Europe. So it’s small but mighty, I guess. I grew up and while would be kind of more of a we call it a counter lift date. I guess you guys mean like the kind of gateway kind of areas. So it was kind of an a a city that was wealthy and poor. That was it. That it had an overall middle ground. It was that. My mom was a single mom, so we kinda grew up that we had to be half to herself since she provided the the basic needs, which was always meant for us, but everything else we had to work on ourselves. So I started working now is eleven. And that really was just a job that I guess it got me from, nothing to just been able to to do, like, similar things. So they didn’t actually pay me in this first job that I worked as, and they would pay me in food. But it was really cool food. So it was something a bit different from from what I was used to. But what I did do was I used that experience to learn about base like customer service, how to operate cash, all these kind of things. And what that allowed them was when I was twelve, I applied for a job and got this job in a a fast food place, but it was like a small kind of independent run fast food place and the guy that ran it was an alcoholic so he used to disappear every bunch of time as soon as the pub would open, he went. So I ended up pretty much just running this this little place by myself. So having a really quickly learn things like it was it was fish and chips, so you were using a fryer and everything. So even those simple things, twelve years old, you were having a quick around how to use these types of things, which then led me on to my next my next job. And then again, I was paid a bit more. And then a job came up when I was thirteen in tally sales, but my brother wanted this job again. He wanted to start earning some money for himself. So I said I would call the the organization forum because he was too nervous to do it, which doesn’t go well for Talleys. It was to be honest. I called up the lady and she actually ended up offering me a job while I was on the phone. So at thirteen, I got this job in this telemarket environment that was a hundred percent commission based, and that was really when I learned about how you can make money a different way. And then, unfortunately, around that time, my mom also getting really Gilliland eventually she she passed away. So it went from earning just to earning a little bit of extras to earning a bit of more money to get more luxury items, I guess, to then if this was now we were earning to pay the rent and pay the food and had a younger brother as well. We had to look after. So I’d gone from from, again, this is my next second Stott. But luckily I can learn along the way how to make money in different different ways. So we were able to cover the rent, but This was around about the time I then had to leave school because looking after my brother’s school, two jobs, it just wasn’t really working. So at fifteen, I was away from the educational world, I guess, but I was in the in the working environment. Around about that same time, my, younger brother’s dad came back and and kinda won custody of him. There was a small battle, but fifteen could do much to to keep him. And he took him away to live in Gilliland, and I followed because I’d only ever known my little brother in my life. So I I followed down to england and ended up working in, like, hotel chamber made in, cleaning rooms, and just doing anything I could bear. So I lived I lived there for for a small portion of time, but you you know, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen. I was super vulnerable to everything else that was going on in the world So I, unfortunately, I was in a position where I was sexually assaulted as well. So I went through a process of, a court case and things. And this is really where I learned a lot about the the system and how how sexual abuse works and and all this this the process that follows it, and that was really where I felt like I needed to learn a lot more about that area and how this is really how I started got got into the process of working in human trafficking and and fighting sexual abuse. During this whole process, I was working more in financial sectors. So I became a a debt collector, and then I ended up as a bank manager, and then they met my husband who was in the special forces, the UK special forces. He was, you know, kind of at the top of his game and then he got injured in a terrible accident in Oman and left the military after sixteen years. So we had to find a new career for him. And that was learned about the time we both decided to go into close protection. I’d learned that there was a lack of people able to help in the human trafficking environment I wanted to do something that was a bit different to what I’d been doing. So we both went into train as well, he was already fully trained as a close protection officer or bodyguard, whatever you wanna call it. But he needed his civilian qualification. So we both went and done a course together. And around that same time, I found out I was pregnant with my daughter. So Let’s again. It was a new career, but but pregnant bodyguards weren’t in high demand at this Speaker Brett Gilliland: point. Yeah. Right. Speaker Alana Stott: I ended up then learning a lot more the back end of the security business. So I was planning and doing a lot of the planning logistics and things like that. So then when Arab spring happened, which the revolution in North Africa. My husband ends up spending a lot of time there and he was in Libya for pretty much the most of everything. So then that again changed the path of what we were doing, and Libya just became a new new part of our world. Fast forward a little bit more. Dean was getting himself into more and more dangerous situations. So then he decided that what we decided together, he thought we were gonna take her out of that. And the how did it come up here? We said if you needed a new challenge, and then we decided that he would he would do a bike ride, so he was gonna cycle from Argentina to Alaska, which is fourteen thousand miles, and we were gonna raise money for a mental health Stott. So we’ve moved into that, and that was great. I I furthered my work in finance with maybe in learning more more about how to ask for money and how you raised money. I used my experience from debt collecting from the bank lines. And just really learned about the process of asking for money. So we raised over a million dollars on that campaign, And then that led us to move to America in the middle of COVID, and here we are. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, that’s a hell of a resume. And and the fourteen thousand miles happened. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. Yeah. He broke it in ninety nine days and he broke two road records doing it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Wow. So what was that like? Speaker Alana Stott: I mean, that’s so this was something completely new. He was coming back from from Libya. He’d gone from working with a special version three had this team around him all the time to working on his own. He’d been injured, so there was slight limitations to what his leg had been ripped. His ACL is NCL is hammerstein was gone. So there was lots of stuff he he couldn’t do. So he was in Libya for the most part on his own on certain operations. If he would come home and if there would be, like, shirts just soaked in blood, there would be Yeah. In this is what happened. It was just super close. Like, it’s magnifying for me running out with this patch. So but I knew that you couldn’t do a night a five job, he wouldn’t be sat behind an office desk that would just kill him more than anything. So we needed to find some sort of adrenaline in Speaker Brett Gilliland: the bus Speaker Alana Stott: that just wouldn’t kill him. And then it was around about the same time him and Prince Harry were friends, and Harry was setting up this mental health campaign that was being in a collaboration and mental health priorities together. So he said, would you mind doing it if you were gonna do it, do it for for this cause to try and raise money? So we were like, yeah. Absolutely. Let’s do that. So the focus had to be undine. First of all, getting fit and being able to cycle this hundred and fifty miles a day in minimum. So he had to keep his focus on that, and then I had to keep the focus on the fundraising. The issue that I actually came up with us was because Harry was involved, we were like under a microscope. It was completely. Then he met Megan during this whole process, and then it it got even worse for for everything. So there was there was zero benefit to having a royal name attached to this. I can tell you. But what I’d done was similar to what I’d done probably when I was eleven, I took everything that we gained and just used it to to learn as much as I could about that situation that we were in. So as an example, we have we had eleven non profits under this this campaign that we’re working with, and I managed to secure two hundred thousand in two hundred thousand pounds donation from one one organization, but the royal household had actually met with his organization before they were a bit I I guess a bit peeved that they hadn’t got to them first. So we then had to go through a bit of a legal process where I had to then spend money to be able to accept this money. And that was really frustrating because you’re just trying to raise money for a call. It’s what you’ve got all this retate basically to go through politics therapy to go through. So I learned so much about that test during that about what there was involved when it came to actually asking for money to receive in money, how to accept money. There was all sorts we had to think about that I I probably super naive to at the beginning. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And then the Harry and Megan thing happening in the middle of that, that doesn’t help stuff. I wouldn’t think. Speaker Alana Stott: No. I mean, well, I think they had their own thing going on and because you were funny because when we started the whole process, we had very little social media dial and Dean didn’t have a presence online whatsoever. He was gonna be Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — you know, Speaker Alana Stott: he did special forces. He was completely dark. So, Dean got away from that to being really put under a bit of a spotlight. And a lot of this, for example, when he broke the world record, he broke it on the eleventh of May, and the wedding was on the nineteenth of May. So we flew home in time through the wedding, but then all the questions were in would the wedding like? How was it? What was she wearing with Steven? Not one question about well, you’ve just cycle Fourteen. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Broga world record in fourteen thousand miles, but how was the wedding? Exactly. Speaker Alana Stott: And then Speaker Brett Gilliland: they had their didn’t they do a Netflix thing or something? I don’t follow it. So I just know they There was a lot of drama there from what I hear. So, so let let’s talk about like so you’re doing this stuff when you’re the high profile bodyguards and different things. I mean, that’s a unique A lot of people listen this probably don’t have or need a bodyguard, but, I still think it’s fascinating is what kind of work are you doing? So apply that work to the work of, like, the everyday person that what we do, whether it’s in a conference room, a boardroom, whatever you have, what what are some of the parallels there? Speaker Alana Stott: Know, it’s it’s everything like the the logistics and planning that go into security operation are the exact same things as if you were plan and, you know, a takeover of a company or if you were starting up a new business and this is the same ingredients that goes into it. And it depends how well you do it as to what your outcome is, Gilliland that I’ve watched many security companies fail. Over the restart, our security come in two thousand and ten, and over that year’s amount of businesses I’ve seen go down, when the operators are some of the best that I’ve ever known in the special forces world, they were, you know, the number one. The skills that these guys have brought to incredible, but the things that they lacked, and then they never went and found. The the biggest one that I ever come across is their inability to understand their value and to actually send invoices and to be on top of their business and and to treat it as a business, you know, because they would be you know, this incredible skills have been able to rescue hostages out hostile environments or, you know, take celebrities around the world or whatever area of security you’re working, you could be in a mining in in Mexico or you could be, you know, on the red carpet in LA. When you’re not running the actual business correctly, none of that can matter. And that some has something I see all the time is that that they’re not running the back end properly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I would assume most of the big, big celebrities these days have detail like yourselves. Is that correct? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. If we stay away up well away from celebrities now, but, the most of them do have a level of security. And and again, that’s some one of the jobs that we do now is we do vulnerability assessment. So we actually go and assess the security package that is existing within clients. And often it can be that a person either, normally people don’t engage security until it’s Stott the fact that they actually need it. That’s their disappointing point. What I mean, what we do is we provide vulnerability assessments. We’ll go in and we’ll check out a person’s advice and check out everything from their their children right up to their businesses and see any holes, any loops, anything that people into up to cyber security is a huge huge issue for most people now. That’s not actually what we do. We’re more of the physical but we do look at them and see what they’ve got in place. And we can put them in the in the right direction, but a lot of time, security incident had to take, like, Kim Kardashian and Paris, you know, when she was attacked in the hotel room in Paris, that was when she upped her security massively. Now I would argue there’s a bit of an advantage taken there because she didn’t need when she went up to, but the fear was used to then see what we’ve got going this entire and on. And a lot of the times, this type of people are are huge taking advantage of because they don’t understand exactly what it is that they need and people see them as a massive paycheck, you know, and we can get whatever we want out of these people. They know what they’re doing. So for us, that’s a lot of what we do. You’ll go and assess what they’ve actually got and if they need it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I assumed in today’s world too is if you know you’re going to this part of the country or some place in the world, there’s pre work that goes on too. So, like, I know people that travel that may wanna start investing in that, right, that they get a pre travel plan. So if you’re gonna go overseas, maybe a a company like yourselves or other ones, another guy I know. They will go ahead and pre plan your trips on which part of the the town to go to and which part not to. And, you know, transportation to have versus not have. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. And and, you know, what what me and Dean try and do is make your life as happy and as easy as possible because the worst the worst thing that can is when you engage security is the the fear of god into on a daily basis about how dangerous the world is. And that’s That’s not what we’re doing. I mean, we’ve got three kids and we raise those kids to be security aware. They’re not in fear. They’re just aware of their surroundings and their conscience that they’ve They’ve got this, you know, peripheral vision that a lot of people are kinda lacking now. And what that’s what we’re trying to teach your appliance. So, yeah, we’ll do full planning on where they’re going. You know, sometimes going to Africa, on a a safari, we’ll wanna do a full check on what it is they’re doing where they’re going hotels they’re staying at. But what we’re doing as well is we’re giving them advice on their social media use, and and if they’re Stott real time or when they’re posting, how they’re posting it often I’ve looked at new clients, and before I would even meet I could look at, look at just their public profile page, and I could tell you where their kids go to school, what time they leave, where they live, where normal hangout is, you know, I can find out so much about them just by what they’re putting on the internet themselves. So what we’ll try to do is say that we don’t some celebrities want to do that, so we don’t want to stop them. But what we wanna do is say, well, you don’t need to post it on the second that you’re there, or if you’ve of your house, you know, not have the house number or not have the location on or then we’ll look at their children because their children are often usually the ones that people will look at to get information. And so many times, we can find kids with Snapchat location services turned on or you know, school jumpers and images. There’s so many things that we go through. A big a big part of what we do is child online exploitation as well. So that’s a a big part of our business. Yeah. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: that’s all these kids know. I mean, you think about it. Right? I mean, we didn’t grow up with that stuff, but they do. And we talk to our kids about that. It’s it’s crazy. It’s scary. I find it crazy too. This Airbnb thing I see they’re doing now is where these celebrities are renting their houses out and you can come and stay at the back of their house. I mean, obviously, this is some sort of partnership, but I would think there’d have to be security involved in that. Have you seen that? Speaker Alana Stott: I actually haven’t seen that. You know, this sounds a bit scary. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I saw like Ashton Kutcher and, I can’t think of his wife’s name. They have some farmhouse there in California. And, like, you can rent it and they’ll be there. Like, you can rent, like, the guest house or something. I’m like, that doesn’t sound Right. But anyway, that’s for another podcast, I guess. So let’s let’s, change the subject here and, let’s talk about, success. How do you define that? And, what does it mean to you? Speaker Alana Stott: Well, you know, we’ve been through so much over the years, I guess. When we can sit down with our kids and we know that what we’re doing isn’t affecting them in any negative way. I think that’s when we know that we’re we’re was successful. What we do on a daily basis can be so varied. It can be, you know, from doing the security work, Dean’s film and a TV show in Mexico. Right? Now, we can be, doing things about human trafficking with the kids. We’re doing something every day, but as long as I can sit down at night and sit down and Stott, are they happy? Are they safe? Are they, you know, following the right path? And that to me is is success. I know that the the answer that the it might be to do with financial, but that is that means absolutely nothing to our family. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s true. I mean, I think you’re young and professional, that’s what you think about. But as you grow and mature, hopefully, with your career, it’s, it’s more than that. And that’s why I always ask the question because for me, success can certainly be part of that can be financial, but I think there’s a bigger picture there with, you know, time with family, time with friends. You know. Speaker Alana Stott: I Do you if you focus on the financial side of it, I think that might end up being a failure for you because I think you’ve got to look at you know, what is happiness, what is gonna make you sit down every night and say, you know, I’m I’m good here. This this is awesome. And I don’t think having piles of money is ever gonna actually do that. I think, you know, they’re seeing that the kids are happy, seeing that every day we’re doing something positive to to benefit the world. If we we’re seeing those things. And I think that success isn’t those financial gains come. I I do believe fight fully in putting out the universes to exactly what neat. And I think that, you know, often I’m asked how do you how do you do the things you do? How do you get the network that you’ve got? You know, you’re out there. I think if you want something, it’s what have you got to offer other people? You know, I say that, you know, don’t go looking for what they can do for you. What can you do for person. And if you’re if you’re doing it expecting something in return, then don’t do it. Just just don’t do it for Stott give, and it will come back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I hundred percent agree with that. What you put out will come back. Be careful what you put out. Right? Talk about the gift of high expectations. I assume you do that as a as a parent, but also just for yourself, when you hear the gift of high expectations, what comes to mind for you? Speaker Alana Stott: Do you know, we we fought this really terrible habit in this family of never celebrating our successes. Every time we achieve something, it doesn’t of your breaking records. I I got my MB from King Charles last month, and we didn’t stop to celebrate anything. And we when are we gonna do it? And I was actually speaking to a friend of ours bedros, and he was saying that that this mindset that we’ve got doesn’t allow us. To celebrate because we’re at the end. We’re not at the the end game, so we keep going because that might be like a little ticking block, but we’ve got next one to achieve. We’ve got the next one to achieve. I I I believe that in our household, we all think that exactly the same way. We we do have to Stott. We’ll wait a second to tie five each other. Okay. Next. What we’re doing now? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what was that award you got again? Speaker Alana Stott: It was an MB, a member of the most excellent order of the British empire. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Wow. So tell us about that. What is that? That’s a big deal? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. I received it. So it was a King Charles’ first award, and it was for my services to vulnerable women and mental health health awareness. So it was it’s I believe it was for the work that I when I speaking to him when I received it was for the work within the human trafficking. So, I don’t know exactly what it gets you, but I got a little medal and got Stott to meet him in July. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And, nice little weekend with the family there. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. It was lovely. Actually, the day he got coronated in Gilliland, so there was a second coronation firm Scott. So we had a full day. Lovely. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Talk about your book. She who dares. I know that recently came out. So let’s, spend a little time on that. Brag on that book for a minute. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. She really dares came from so Dean wrote his book after the bike arrived the rent list. And when he wrote that, I’m obviously featured a little bit in that. So a few people have said, well, when’s the line? Is book coming I’ve actually always I’ve been writing since I was a little girl. I just Stott when mom died, and actually then during COVID, I picked it up again and thought I’m gonna gonna and as I was writing Shihu bears, and I was writing stories about some of the things at times, like, I talked to people about it, and they were like, that happened to me or I’d been through the same thing, and I was having these conversations. And I was like, I was nervous about putting the book out because you’re literally putting out your life to to the world and the more Speaker Brett Gilliland: vulnerable I spoke. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. More of people I spoke to, the more I was like, no, this does need to be shared. And it’s been great. Like, every time I’m receiving a message about somebody who’s been through something similar or, you know, that hasn’t really told other people about what they’re going through or they’re struggling with some and and they’re able to read it and pull from it. That’s such a blessing to be able to do that. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: how have you through all that? I mean, through the blessings and the success and you know, obviously, we talk a lot about success on the circle of success. But how do you how do you find yourself to dig yourself up out of a hole? Pick yourself up off the ground. Right? You get knocked down. We gotta get right back up. How do you do that personally to find success in your life? Speaker Alana Stott: I in high task for money, the the money books that I’ve wrote, I talk a lot about failure because I I do see failure as the stepping stones are your is a blessing. We’re learning every single time. We’re all we’re only failing in your research, Heather. Our our knocks. The one thing that I found from I I I I fail. I put myself up, but I go through it. And it’s it’s not always easy. I always give myself a little bit of time. I give myself a twenty especially with the big stuff. Some of them big happens, Deanel always say, take a breath, sleep, and then deal with it. Normally within twenty four hours of fix that or came up with a solutioner. But I also think forgiveness is a big one. I hear a lot of people holding on to anger and resentment and the pain of things that they’ve been through. I I feel like I forgive I’ve always felt like I can forgive a lot easier, and I don’t hold on to any resentment anger. I think it just so weight you that seeing people do I’ve seen how Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. — sad to make them and how long it can make them. I feel like you don’t maybe necessarily need to the the evil that someone’s put on you doesn’t need to stay with you. You can release that. You can get rid of it and then put it away from you. Forgive that. Forgive what’s happened and move on Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how do you do that though? So I mean, that’s easy to say, I think. Right? And you had experience with that. But if I’m a person right now that’s in this dark moment and they’re having this issue at work or at home, I think they might say, yeah, right. My deal’s different. So how do I put it away? How do I just put it away? Put it in a box, put it in a shelf and move on? How do I do Speaker Alana Stott: listen, the more the more it stays with you, the more it’s gonna hold on to everything that you could possibly be in the future and the more you’ve written. It’s it’s not easy to say. What you’ve just done to me was first thing, but I’m gonna forgive you and I’m gonna move on. But you have to do it for yourself and your family because every every minute that that’s holding on to you in and the pain and the resentment and the hatred, it’s gonna go on to the next generation as well. And I don’t care if it’s to do with, you know, sexual assault of its PTSD, if it’s, you know, somebody’s robbed you, whatever it might be. If you’re holding on to that anger and pain and hatred and all those hard negative feelings inside you, it is going on to your next generation one hundred percent. So to say that it’s not that easy to let go of, it’s your responsibility to let go of it. It’s your responsibility for the next. You’re you’re a little people to say, no, we’re gonna Stott gonna do it. And, yeah, it’s it’s it’s not easy thing. I know so many people who who kind of cling on to the anger for dear life because it’s almost it’s become part of them. You have to find that outlet to pull it. For me, I’m always looking at the future. I’m looking I’m looking at the bigger picture. I’ve got three little people that hundred percent need me to guide them along the way. But there’s also a world of people out there that that need help. Every single day, I see people that need help. And every time I feel anger, resentment or pain anything. It stops me being able to help them. So I look at it. It’s not about me. It’s about everyone else around me and everything I can’t do. So if you’re kind of holding on to it, I hate to say it. It can be a little bit selfish, so let it go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Again, that letting go part is that it’s a self talk do you think? I mean, how do you can truly convince yourself? Because, I mean, I’ve had those issues that follow you around a little bit. And I think I’m pretty good at shrugging them off. I call it the bounce back theory where the most successful I’ve seen, people that I’ve seen, get bad news, but they bounce back really, really quickly. Right? But then you also have people to hold on to it for days. So, again, I would ask almost the same question that was how? Like, am I How do I release that to where it doesn’t become part of my everyday life? Speaker Alana Stott: Again, I mean, I can always speak from me, and I can say that I’ve seen people have gone through some of the most horrendous things I’ve dealt with people in awful circumstances. And I never say that my pains worse than everybody else. So I think I I hear that a lot that people think, oh, yeah, you know, that it’s about the fact that you didn’t get as bad as, like, I see into I’ve watched people that have been through sexual assault in the household, but just take that. And maybe the girls have gone through it, but maybe the sons watched it or witnessed it or had to listen to it. He never maybe they experienced it, but I can say, I have watched the girls get over it, and the and the guys struggle to get over it. Now whose pain was worse, but who was going through worse. I don’t think there’s any way to say who went through worse, but one’s managed to get over it and one’s still struggling to get past it. And I think that the the people that have seen pull through it have got a higher purpose. They’ve got other things that are more important than their pain that they went through. And I I do feel like if we could get out and we can see that there’s so much more that you’re needed for. You can’t be stuck there. It’s have to keep moving forward. The the yeah. Do I still feel pain from things that have gone on the path? Yeah. But I don’t give myself time to think about it. I feel like I’ll use that energy and know that I was put through those tests for a reason. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. So what so what would you tell yourself now? I mean, knowing that stuff now and getting to their side of some pretty, you know, horrific things in your life. What advice would you give that 10:15, twenty year younger person, younger self? Speaker Alana Stott: I go back a lot, you know, I’ll do if I’m doing a lot of meditation to kinda do like to go back to them, give them a little hug from my older self. And I think that I feel like if we if we done that a bit more as well, that we can go back and, you know, see people criticizing themselves a lot, you know, we can we can critical about our bodies who we are. And I often say, like, go to your, like, deep state and go back to that little girl or, like, little boy and say that same thing to them. It’s a lot more difficult. To criticize that way. So for me, it would be just you are you are, it sounds so cliche and so cheesy, but you are enough, like, kids right now are competing themselves to absolutely everything inside of there, and it’s really sad. And for for Little Elana, first while I would just give her huge amounts of hugs and tell her that she is special and that she is required in this earth for so much more than what she’s going through right now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s great. Just a big hug. Right? Sometimes you just need a big hug. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: My son needed a big hug. My second son turned sixteen this past weekend, and it was Labor Day yesterday. And so the DMV was closed. He was supposed to get his driver’s license today. And, then something went wrong the system because it needed three business days. Well, Labor Day doesn’t count as a business day. So we had to give him a big hug today. But my point to that story is Sometimes we get disappointing news. Right? And I’m a firm believer in, yes, it’s okay to be disappointed. It’s okay that you’re mad that you’re not getting your driver’s license. Let’s also try to flip the script on that and say, you know what? But there’s a plan for that. Right? It was raining pretty hard this morning. Maybe god did put you in a in a vehicle during and doing your test during that. Right? So always trying to find, in my opinion, that that silver lining, that one thing when I’m disappointed, of why the plan was. It is what it is. The plan’s written. Now I just gotta deal with it. Again, okay to be upset, but I gotta deal with it. Thoughts on that. Speaker Alana Stott: Hundred percent. Like, you’re meant to be where you’re meant to be when you’re meant to be there. It’s it’s all there is another planet, and that disappointment of the, you know, I was gonna buy that house from your sales fell through or or that happened for a reason. And and you’ll know that 05:10 years, you’re just backing Well, imagine if we’d done that and that had happened and that had gone through. Yeah. Usually usually it becomes clear eventually. And I think just in the process, you know, put in the work, do what you need to do to make it happen. And then if it’s not happening, and you’ve got an ability to change it, then go for it. But things that the driving license plates is shut, but also understand that deep my husband’s got a real terrible habit of comparing his situation to our twelve year old daughter who can’t go to the mall that day because a friend, you know, has to go somewhere Gilliland then she’s stuck at home and she can’t go to tomorrow, and it’s the worst thing in the world. And then Dino’s, you know, Dean gave the list of things that he’s currently dealing with, well, you know, there’s people stuck in Afghanistan. I’m trying to evacuate and there’s this, and that much your problems. Right. This is as big as that. So we got to My Speaker Brett Gilliland: my problems are bigger than your twelve year old going to the mall problem. But still for her, that’s her Afghanistan in getting somebody out of their problem. Right? You you mentioned meditation a little bit ago. So, walk us through that. A lot of people listen to that or listen to this. We talk about it all the time. How do you meditate? Why has it been so important in your life? Speaker Alana Stott: So this was something that one thousand percent did not come easy to me. I found it really, really difficult to just be present with myself. And then I read, the warrior mindset, and I I learned a little bit more about the the way the samurai worked, and that was something that really resonated with me. I I loved how were able to switch it on and off, and the everything I’d seen about meditation up to them was about, you know, sitting for twenty minutes, sitting for thirty minutes, having all that I really struggled with that. What I liked about the the samurai method was being able to switch it on instantly and switch between your waves. Really, really quickly and just have those moments and how I’ve used that now is when I’m feeling that overwhelm everything’s too much here. There’s so much going on. I can just do that little moment of just bringing myself back, sat in and myself, and then, okay, we can move. Then, yeah, we can do the twenty minute ones, or we can do, you know, give ourselves some real me time, but I feel like those little instant moments are Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Alana Stott: better for me for me. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I I would agree. I think I’ve had to learn the years. If you told me sit down and just like kind of breathe or think about your now don’t think for twenty minutes, it’s impossible. But I I I what I have found is I’ve built that muscle up that five minutes is more than enough time to change your life with meditation. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: then you’ll get used to doing ten and fifteen and is, but I still don’t sit down for twenty minutes and just meditate. Right? I’m I’m at 05:10, maybe fifteen, if I’m lucky, Speaker Alana Stott: just Speaker Brett Gilliland: because my brain goes to me of different places. Speaker Alana Stott: And I think you’ve got to understand what the purpose of doing it is. For me, it is just to re center myself and pull myself back in and just just, you know, breathe everything together again and, okay, tackle it again. And sometimes I might need that bit longer, and sometimes that moment will do. So it’s it’s up to finding your own positioning, but I’d I’ve never, yeah, I’ve never been a fan of the plane of Rachel here every day at 10:00. I wanna sit down through — Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Alana Stott: twenty minute, you know, that’s not me. I need to be able to do it. Do it sporadically and on the move. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Do it on your time? Yes. So if I were to follow you around, with a camera for a few days and see something numerous things maybe that that are day in, day out. You do not fail on those. You will you will not miss those. Are there any habits in there that you think are important people to know? Speaker Alana Stott: I’m making my bed, but something that I’m I think it was Edmund Craven who wrote the book, make your own bed. And I’ve followed it ever since and every single day without fail that bed is and I think that it’s such an important habit that the kids do have Dean does because it does, as as he says, it gives you that first achievement of the day, but it gives you that for for me to see an unmade bed, it’s almost like you are setting yourself up for of a failure for the day. Like, you’ve, like, you’ve not got that discipline and that this is this is what I’m gonna do for the rest of the day is make sure that it’s all done. So I’ve I’ve I’ve and the principal kept I mean, now that make her bed. I make my bed if I’m in a hotel. I make my bed if I’m in somewhere this place doesn’t matter. The bed is made when we get out because we’re up and we’re ready to go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, it’s fine. I was smiling when you said that because I was on this golf trip. I’ve mentioned a couple times, last week. I’m with, you know, me and seven other guys, so eight of us out there. And, we all had our own rooms in this little, like, cottage thing and when the guys comes by and we’re talking and I’m starting to make my bed and he’s like, you make your bed? We’re on, like, a trip like this. I’m like, Well, yeah, man. I’m like, and I wasn’t perfect. I’m sure I missed it a day or two while I was there, but I’m like, yeah. I’m like, even if I play bad golf today, I I don’t do well, whatever. I’ve at least accomplished that and I come home to a nice tidy clean room. It just feels better. Right? Because I and I do believe that. I know it’s silly to be talking about making a bed, you know, our kids were like that. We’re like that with them too. You at least accomplish something and you come back to a tidy space because if you have a bad day, man, least the last thing I wanna do is come back to a place that’s just disheveled already. Speaker Alana Stott: Yeah. And there’s something about your mindset. The bed the bed then goes to the room to to everything else, to your towel, you know, on the on the floor. Yeah. You know, you can take your own responsibility. Even if you do have a housekeeper or help these are your responsibilities. You know, you pick up your own clothes, you tidy up your own room, you put your your things away. Everything in our house, everything is is ship shape. You know, when we see, when we see messes, I think it just it it transcends through the rest of your life when you’re leaving a mess and it’s kind J. It goes to everything else too. So — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Alana Stott: Stott your own stuff out. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What mother Theresa say? Front, sweep your own front porch. If everybody did that, there will be a lot better this. Right? Speaker Alana Stott: It’s a thousand percent true. Where I’m from in Aberdeen, I know my great auntie Molly, who’s my biggest inspiration. She died twenty twenty when she was ninety five. And — Wow. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Alana Stott: she she was the one who kind of taught me what some of those little tiny little Abridine used to be such a clean little town. It’s a city. Sorry. But the the the main street was Stott, you know, everybody cleaned their own front pavement. And now it’s almost like that’s not my responsibility. I’m not touched I’m not doing it. And then there’s just garbage all over the streets in there, and it’s just been left to, there’s a, a generation that they knew what they were doing there. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, last couple of questions here. If you, when you hear the words and and see this symbol right here in the microphone for those watching, achieving a future greater than your past. What comes to mind when you hear that? Speaker Alana Stott: That’s probably similar to my keep keep moving forward where I’m from is one thousand percent where I Stott, but it’s not who I’m gonna be and what I’m doing in the future, you know, The future for me every day is bigger and bigger, and it includes more and more about helping other people when that the main purpose for us for us. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. Alright. I’m pulling my phone out here to get your Instagram up. We’re gonna play the the Instagram game. So pick a number between one and ten. Speaker Alana Stott: Four. Speaker Brett Gilliland: K. Four. Pick a number between one and three. Two. Well, this is perfect. I mean, she did not pay me to do this, but this is it’s the post was your of your book, the cover of your book. And it says, have you got your copy yet? She who dares she who dares out now. Kelsey Sharon. She’s got a little post on here about it. She’s excited. So again, talk about that. Why should somebody go out and pick it up and read it? Speaker Alana Stott: Gosh. Kelsey is my number one fan. That’s that’s awesome. You know, it’s just it’s a book that is good for for men and women. You know, I love that I’ve had people from Jack Carr reviewing it too, Kelsey, to it doesn’t matter who you are. It’s got something in it for for everyone I hope. I hope that it gives a look. Or as you say, it’s the main theme that I’m getting about the book pick yourself back up. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, and that’s true. Right? Because if you get knocked down and you don’t get back up, well then you’re guaranteed a loss. So what’s the worst thing? Just get back up do it one more time. It works. So where can our listeners find more of you? Speaker Alana Stott: Every at allana dot com and allana dot across various, social media, YouTube, etcetera. We’ve just started our own podcast as well, which is behind the scene, which is releases on Monday, which is the eleventh. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Yeah. Well, we will put that in the show notes and send people over there and, and we’ll check it out. Well, a lot of thanks so much for being with me today. It’s been awesome having you on the circuit of success.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, Brett Gilliland interviews Michael Lombardi, a former NFL executive, Olympic coach, Fit Biomics Director of Partnerships, and co-founder and CEO of Rowficient. Lombardi shares his journey to success, which began with his high school rowing coach teaching him the importance of accountability and hard work. He also talks about how to think big and negotiate deals, and emphasizes the importance of understanding that everyone is different. Finally, Lombardi shares his daily routine for peak performance and how he has learned to be confident in his abilities. FULL YOUTUBE EPISODE Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, I’ve got Mike Lombardi with me, Mike. What’s going on, my man? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Just living the dream up here in Boston. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Living the dream, raining up there? Speaker Michael Lombardi: It’s like a downpour. It’s like a monastery today. Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’ve been having, it’s been like a it feels like a hundred and fifteen literally, a hundred and fifteen. All sports have been canceled, high school, kids sports, everything. Have been canceled all week. So which is kinda nice to get a little few nights off, you know, when you get four kids. It’s nice to have dinners or the family. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s, I’m sorry to hear this. That’s what went out, but, whatever it is. Yeah. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You are a Princeton grad. You are Olympic coach. You are, Fit Biomics Director of partnerships. You are the co founder and CEO of Rofficient, and you got a lot of stuff going on. What we talked about before this was your wife was on my podcast about three years ago. Speaker Michael Lombardi: She’s, she’s the best. She She, funny enough, you know, she we’ve had two kids in the last three years. And, you know, I was enjoying the little break of her kicking my ass and workouts and yesterday. It’s officially over. The run’s done. She’s back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: She’s back. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Excuse me. I’m done one day. It’s over. Yeah. It’s over for me now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, I’m sorry to hear that. And did you guys meet during the Olympics? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Is that Speaker Brett Gilliland: how you met earlier? Speaker Michael Lombardi: We actually met at Princeton. We met the first day of at Princeton in the Boathouse. We were both rowers. You know, we we just built a friendship over the first year and then started dating. And then you know, we we graduated same time. She decided to keep growing on the national theme. I started coaching at Princeton. Which is where the training center was. And then, I started helping out because we’re always on the same body of water. So, you know, I’d I’d finish up a row. I’d see them coming in I say, what do you think? Can I just start giving her some feedback on it? Help them her through London. And then for the real cycle, I was and end up being her coach for, part two. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: Wow. Speaker Michael Lombardi: That’s, yeah, we got married in between, but, yeah. That’s So Speaker Brett Gilliland: she has to listen to you when you’re on talking rowing. Right? I mean, you know, different. She has to listen to you on the water, but maybe not at home or what. Speaker Michael Lombardi: No. We’re good team dynamic. You know, I I think that that’s always been a strong suit for us is we have complimentary skill sets and our personalities go well. Like, I sit back and kinda see how I can help a person, a team, anything. And then you you coach them along, and Sarah’s very receptive to coaching. And she likes feedback. So it’s it’s a it’s a really good match. But yeah, it’s things that I kinda learned through coaching. I’ve kind of taken everywhere and kind of applied to whatever. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. So if you can, maybe give us a little bit of the backstory, Mike, on what’s made you the man you are today. I’m sure there’s people all around you and, some and backstory in there. But what what’s helped with that? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Sure. I mean, I I think I don’t know how many people say it’s where they’re from, but, you know, I’m from Philadelphia area, South Jersey, I think it’s, like, kind of, part of the DNA a little bit that, you know, you work hard. You kinda, you don’t make excuses. It’s all about accountability. And I think that, you know, my my dad was always a really good role model for that, and and a big I’d say that the first person I really remember kind of like changing my life in that sort of sense, was my high school rowing coach, Gilliland, And, you know, he pointed out to me, or he he made me believe in myself to a level that I didn’t think of before. Like, I was a talented athlete. You know, Varsity basketball. I I messed around with soccer, which is funny. It’s six Gilliland, like, rowing, I just kinda stumbled into it because somebody said, you should go try this because you’re tall. I was decent, but I didn’t really totally understand, like, you know, I as my most how I high school kids don’t like. What is full exertion? What what is going to the max? And I think he really kind of helped me unlock that. So it’s the combination of me being a Jersey guy going through a this high school in Philly. All those guys knew each other. In the basketball circuit, I kinda had like a chip on my shoulder. It’s like, I’m this outside guy, and I was not part of their crew. And that was behind I was really good at basketball. And but Roan really kinda opened, you know, welcomed me with open arms and, coach Lam, you know, he held me accountable. He’s, like, you know, I re I remember this after the two thousand four, I guess, National Championship. I was still in the JV as a sophomore. And, he’s like, Mike, on next year, like, I need you to be the team. Like, that was amazing. You won that race for that. You won the championship for those guys. It this is an eight man vote. I say it’s front of the team. So now there’s all this pressure. Okay. Cool. I gotta go do this now. You know, he’s kinda grooming me the next year and you know, I go play basketball, do that whole thing. The season’s over. I show up to practice it to race day and, race practice, and he you know, it’s like my second day back. I haven’t touched a noir in, you know, four or five months. And it just unloads a little bit of, like, to make the pull a thousand times better, not worse. And just that the course of that season was like, Hey, man, this is no bullshit. Like, people are really counting on you, and you have to hold yourself accountable. And he really he hammered home this what accountability means and holding yourself to a standard, and it doesn’t matter what anybody else is doing. Like, it’s your standard or our standard, and that’s that’s what matters. So, he completely changed it for me. And then when I got to college, I carried a lot of that stuff with me. And then through growing it instant, and then coaching at Princeton, you know, you learn a lot of lessons. And I think, I know you’ve had lots of coaches on here, but finding your voice is a hard thing, as a young coach. And what you can all you can really do is, like, you start with who who were the most recent voices or who were the influential voices in my head throughout. And that that’s where it starts. And you’re you’re more of a copy of that than yourself. So, again, another sort of inflection for me. I I took over mid year coaching, at Princeton. And I kinda came down on them a little hard on practice just because of attention to detail and one of the kids from Iowa, he said, Mike, you catch, you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. And I was like, I I think I got more upset when he said it. But, like, in just internally. But from then, it was, like, completely changed my outlook of, like, I need I that I know I wanna be as a coach now. Like, I wanna bring these kids along and these young guys and develop them, and it’s it’s about the process together. And it’s not like this is it, and this is how you do it. And that’s what I’ve kind of taken with from that point on. And when I completely changed that, then I saw way better success in the rest of that season, and then in in ensuing season. So it it, It it’s a little bit of a shift in mindset, from being so competitive as an athlete. And then shifting to, like, this is all about everybody else. Speaker Brett Gilliland: In knowing you can’t really do anything. Right? You can’t control the outcome because you’re you’re not in there. Right? You’re not in there rowing and and doing that. It’s all through other people. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. And and it’s still so fresh. Right? Like, you just did it. And it you you’re either happy with how your career ended or you’re not. Most people aren’t. You know, or I’d be still rolling for the national team or something like that. And even still, like, a lot of times, it doesn’t end up well. But, you know, Yeah. It it was it was, I would get less frustrated with the outcome more about the process. Like, you know, why why isn’t this queue working for coaching, you know, for for you making this technical change or something like that? So, you know, finding more patients and ways to connect in different ways, because everybody’s different. That that’s that’s the big thing. It’s like, because I understand something one way doesn’t mean that anybody else understands it the exact same way. So you have to reach people where they are and you might have to try fifteen different queues to get the same outcome. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So have you have you changed your definition of success over time? Right? And and I and I asked that question because I know for me, when I was twenty two years old, starting in wealth management versus now being forty five and well management. You know, my definition of success has changed quite a bit over the years. Has yours changed as you’ve progressed in your life? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. For sure. It used to be very binary. You wonder you didn’t win. I went faster than I everybody else or I didn’t. I scored more points or I didn’t. That now I look at it as those results are just the byproduct of the process. Did did we elevate the group? Like, within a team setting in terms of, like, business. So, at Woop, did we Did we elevate the brand? Did this marketing campaign? Do what it was supposed to do? Did we activate the max that we could? Did we squeeze the most potential out? Basically, did we set ourselves up for success? Did how do we execute against it? What was left on the table? And and what did we maybe over perform on? So I think it’s a more realistic and full 03:60 view of success as opposed to binary wins losses. How much money you’re making? Like, especially as, I’d say in the last two years more so, with kids, not even the first year of my, my first son’s life because it was, like, peak pandemic and I don’t, you know, whatever the world was. So I feel like I was still very stressed about I don’t wanna say the wrong things, but, at a certain point, it was just like families first and impacting the boy’s lives and Like, that that success to me, being there for them, helping them through all the things they go through, like that success. And being healthy enough, like, not going to the gym and being like, I gotta win this workout. Cool. If I do, but it’s really like, I hope I go get a good workout, spend some time with people. And come back and I can I’m healthy. Right? You know, as you get older, as I’m sure you can appreciate. Shoulder out or something. So, yeah, it it’s a completely different shift, from a mindset perspective. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, people are gonna think I’m a whoop, like, I’m getting paid by whoop or something. I’m not. I wear a whoop, have for, I guess three or four years now, and I had Kristen Holmes on the show yesterday. Be out next week. But, what what did you learn when your time there, as an early adopter in seeing something that’s grown, like, to what it is today? Speaker Michael Lombardi: So Kristen, actually was my first boss. She hired me a whoop. And we met at Princeton. We coached there, and we both had athletes in the London Olympics. So we spent some power there. So it’s kind of a long term relationship with Kristen. And she was very influential in my process too. I would say my, in my professional career. You know, she brought me in and, you know, the the thing about whoop, that that excited me back then and still does. I was doing this stuff on my own for the second olympic cycle. So I was pulling a lot of data, like, on my athletes of How many hours did you sleep? What’s your mood? What’s your urine color? SPO two monitors? You know, kind of, you know, I I call it, like, fluid periodization of training where it’s, like, We have an outcome we’re trying to achieve, but just because we have this sort of training plan written that doesn’t mean we’re gonna go and execute it if you’re like complete toast. And that’s more or less kind of like what Woot will also help you understand is like, do you need to pull back? Do you not? Can you push harder? Then you didn’t even realize it? What are the things that are actively impacting you, negatively impacting you. And I got to do that with Kristen for a year and a half. Basically, there’s like performance consultants to teams, and we got to help other teams win national championships which was more fulfilling to me than actually winning them myself. And, like, Wop is is continues to change the game. Like, you know, from that, we kinda, person went off on the thought leadership, performance science side, and I started doing strategic partnerships. So, I worked closely on on Woops major partnerships Gilliland and negotiating them, executing them, and then I got vary into leading, things in the crossroad space, functional fitness, all that kind of stuff, and then third party integrations. So whether that be Hyperized Equinox app, whatever, so we’re close with the product team. So, thing that that I always liked is I’m like a serial entrepreneur, I’d say. That’s what they told me in business school, which is, don’t don’t work for anybody. Not that you don’t play well with others, but you you thrive much more in small environments where you can really get your hands dirty. That’s what Woop was when I joined it. I think there were about thirty five people when I joined, and I got to do everything. Which is both stressful. But but, also really amazing. And now Woop is a huge company. And, you know, it’s it’s grow continues to grow and and changing lives. So, I mean, I do not remember what the original correction was, but, you know, there we are. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. There is there is a great answer. I was getting the question. And and so what it makes me think about is, you know, I think about, like, patching my homes, and I’m I’m a golfer guy. So Roy Macroy, Justin Thomas, you you see, you know, Michael Phelps, I mean, you see major, major, major sports stars wearing this stuff. And But go back because I I would apply this whoop thing we’re talking about. This bracelet that tells me everything about my life. Right? But I don’t want to be called bracelet, whatever you wanna call it. But then apply that to whether it’s wealth management, calling that mister or missus big client. Or I’m an attorney, and I wanna get that big lawsuit thing done. Whatever it may be, does how does your mind work when you’re calling on the Patrick Mahomes of the Gilliland you’re thirty five large and you’re trying to get deals like that? Not necessarily has be him. But, like, how does that go down? And how do you think big enough to think, yeah, man. What I’ve got is good enough for them. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. That’s a good point. I don’t I think maybe everybody’s different, you know, with how they deal with people that sort of scale. But I feel like having being fortunate enough to be around athletes like that a lot and having, you know, run ins with pro athletes and people I grew up with made the NBA or things like that, it it’s kinda, like, They’re just people. In reality, like, you get them on the phone. Once you kind of get over the fact, you’re like, Hey, I’m gonna talk to Pappahomes or Michael Phillips or whoever. You know, you just sit down and it’s, it’s normal. So it’s, you know, what does it look like good for them? So in terms of an ambassador or, you know, like, investor site sort of situation, that’s that’s more on a higher level. That’s probably above me. But in terms of negotiating longer term deals, with, let’s call them entities or organizations like a PGA, like across it like an Equinox, you know, You sit you know what you wanna get out of it. And which what I like to think of them as is, like, truly partnerships, not sponsorships. I think a lot of people Speaker Brett Gilliland: confused with it. Speaker Michael Lombardi: People say partnership, but they mean sponsorship, which means you’re paying for something and I’m giving you something. And I never thought of it that way, and I got a credit, you know, Antonio over to the former CMO who was my boss for a while, of, like, changing the way I think about that stuff. And, You know, it has everyone has to have skin in the game is how I think about it. And you have to find out what’s important to you, what’s important to them, and then finding something that works great that gets everybody excited. Otherwise, it’s transactional, and it’s probably gonna fail because that’s the hardest part about actual partnerships. Is getting everybody synced up and excited about what you’re doing. Now if there’s no upside to either side, why does anybody care and why you’re doing it? So whether that’s an individual, whether that’s an, like, a corporation organization. So a lot of times what people would do is they would send over sponsorship packages. What I would do is break them down and rebuild them and say, no, no, thank you. But here’s how we see it going, and here’s the timeline for success. So not just like yours at deliverable social media posts licensing of logos, blah blah blah blah. Okay. Cool. Got it. But like, what are we actually gonna do together? Was what’s innovative? How are we gonna change the game? And do something in whatever the space is that hasn’t been done that’s going to make it better for not just you know, our brand and your brand, but anybody that participates, where we wanna add something to them. So they see, you know, Woop and cross the department, like, how does that trickle down to a, you know, multimillion, individual community? Like, what’s how does that matter to them? Right? Or the PGA, how does that matter to them? How is whooping that all of a sudden show up? And you saw it in the, like, the fan experience. Right? Like, there’s there was the whoop live at the rider cop. Right? Or, you know, these these heart rate comments, right? And so it’s like, how do you start to build those things that nobody’s thinking about? Into these deals. So it has to be very forward thinking and pushing the bounds, and you have to find a partner that aligns with, you know, how far you’re trying to push the boundaries, I guess. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. You know, I loved one of the things I saw after the Super Bowl, which was counterintuitive of what people would think when Patrick Mahomes had the football, his resting heart rate was lower than when he was sitting on the sidelines and not having the football. Right? Which it tells you, he’s like, man, when I know when I get the ball, I’m in control. Right? When I don’t have the ball, I’m not in control. And I just thought that was a fascinating stat. When you look at the elite performers, When they’re at their best, man, when when they’re in control, what their their own internal body is doing compared to when they’re not in control. I thought it was fascinating. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Do you not find out about yourself here? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I do. I I I showed this to Kristen yesterday, you know, the new stress thing on the whoop is when I’m doing this or if I’m sitting with a client, like, my stress meter is lower, then when in a know, I guess you could say a more stressful situation. Right? I gotta be on. I gotta ask you these questions. I know people are gonna watch. Right? More stressful, but yet, When I look at my stress monitor, it’s it’s not. It’s my stress is lower. I feel like I’m enjoying the moment. I’m doing the things I’m put on Earth to do. And that’s what would be my equivalent of, you know, having the football or not. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. No. I I I think that’s the case. Right? Big big time players want the ball when the game’s on the line. Right? Right. Yeah. That’s when they’re I Speaker Brett Gilliland: wanna make that putt. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. You wanna make that putt. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I wanna make that putt. Maybe Kim Banging Dunes next week. If we can, I’d like to dive in, and I funny, I just got this, feedback today, like, from Lombardi. That they want more of the behind the scenes of what people are doing, which I think is great. Because when I when I talk about a a process you go through to be at peak performance, it’s like, well, I I sleep well. I exercise. I drink a lot of water. And, you know, here’s the five same steps, but I I don’t know if you like getting in the weeds on this stuff or not. But can we do that? Like, how can you help help us, help our listeners, be at peak performance, and live the things we need to do. Let’s be as detailed as we want. Let’s kinda go back and forth on that one. Sound good? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. Sure. Let’s do it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright. So, alarm clock goes off. We’re gonna start the day. What’s Mike Lombardi doing? What’s that process like for you? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Usually, I’m woken up by one kid or the other. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Exactly. And between two and seven. Right? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. So And, yeah, normally, normally, I’m up, probably, like, anywhere from, like, 05:30 to 06:30. What I’ll do is, I will take care of the three year old. My wife will feed the three month old. So I’ll I’ll get Mava So my my oldest son is Maverick, and I bring him downstairs. We make breakfast together. Make it make coffee. He helps him make coffee. It’s the same process every morning. He, covers his ear when I grind the beans, but then he helps me with it. He always wants to touch the beans, like, ground up beans after. So we get that. He helps me make whatever his breakfast is for that day. So it’s, you know, a bit of father son bonding kinda like warming him up to the day as he’s kind of got out of his sleep. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And give us some perspective on that. What are you what are you feeding to three year olds? I’m assuming you’re putting some lucky charms or cinnamon toast crunch in a bowl, or are you? Speaker Michael Lombardi: No. He he actually is, you know Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nothing against those cereals, Vimey’s list. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Now No. He’s he it’s tough because he doesn’t eat the traditional kid things, like, on his own, I guess. So we rotate through he’ll do, like, yogurt with, like, almond butter and jam and chia seeds in it. That’s one version. We’ll make them the kind of, healthy oats, so like oatmeal, yogurt, with, again, like, chicken, a couple other things in it to kinda give it a little bit of fitness. Occasionally he’ll want like chocolate chip pancakes Gilliland I’ll make that, and that’s fine. But most of the mornings, he’s he’s kind of on the yogurt train, and we’ll eat something like that. I will also make an oatmeal at the same time because we need to be out the door at 07:45 to get in the daycare on time. So we’ll kinda get all that. I, at some point, I have to also walk our French Goldock, so in between, I’m feeding him. So I have to figure out how to get my child there to walk the dog with me, which is harder most days than not, get all this stuff. So I’ll throw all that stuff in the car because I know I’m gonna to be hands on to get Mav in the car. We head out the door about 07:45 07:50. I drop him at daycare, then I go directly to the gym. I work out at a crossfit, box. I do my own stuff. I have a pretty good internal clock of or, you know, what I should be doing on any given day. Based off of kinda like, how did I sleep? Am I kinda jacked it up? This is something I’m excited about doing. I have a couple of people that kinda just follow whatever I do, which is fun. I’ve got a little training group that is kinda waiting for me when I roll in around 08:30. We hit it hard for, you know, about sixty to seventy five minutes, sent out the door back to, help out at home and then and really start hammering in the workday. So I don’t usually eat breakfast until after like, a real breakfast or my first real meal until after, the training’s done. So we’re at 10:30 now. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So then you eat at 10:30 ish, you know, probably help you meal there. And then how many times a day you eat? Speaker Michael Lombardi: You know, it’s what I’ve realized, and this is actually something from Kristen too. I I used to play around with this at Woot, where I didn’t make my food as much there was, like, a lot of, like, healthy fast casual around that’s, like, sweetgreen Gilliland probably, like, Mediterranean bowl type thing. Like, it’s really easy to get healthy enough food, but you weren’t, like, I don’t count my macros or anything. It just kind of aware of what I’m eating, and I think what I was doing was I was actually having too much protein in the middle of the day, and it was making me feel very lethargic. So what I did was I probably halved that protein throughout the middle day. So, but breakfast can still be high protein, you know, shakes or whatever supplements you wanna add in. But, you know, when I eat too heavy of a protein portion in the middle of the sort of, like, lunch time of day, it was like tanking me. So I do more, like, heavy veggie, you know, it could be a salad with with enough of, at least a serving of protein. And it’s it’s just giving me way more energy for the back half of the day. I usually have a nice coffee at some point. Usually, like, one or two. And I I don’t know. I guess you say how many meals do I eat? I’m just kind of like always eating. Again, I’m like a big guy, six seven to her thirty pounds. So it’s just kind of like consistent. So it’s like I just finished eating, and I’m like, alright. Well, I want another apple now, and I’m just gonna kinda keep doing that, but I don’t we don’t keep, like, crap food in the house, so to speak. So it’s like — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Michael Lombardi: always will have to be like a fruit or a yogurt as like a snack or I mean, perfect bars are basically candy bars, but like healthy. So I might have like a half a perfect bar. It’s like a bite of something and always hydrating. I know people said that, but, you know, just gotta It’s important, man. The days I feel best, it’s hard. It’s it’s really hard. If you don’t start early, It’s it’s basically impossible. I don’t know how much Chrising got into this. We used to talk about this all the time, but like, there was a period of time where I tried to drink my body weight in ounces of water for like a week. Is basically impossible, but, it, like, my, my HRV skyrocketed. I didn’t change one other thing besides water intake. So it was wild. So back to the day, now we’re at, I don’t know, work works all throughout this. Helping out with the with the three month old. Usually, you have to leave around 04:30 to go get an ad from daycare again. Go get him. Come on. We make dinner together. He has whatever he’s gonna have, and I make dinner for the whole family, every night. And then the the masquerade of bedtime begins around 06:45, bath time, bedtime. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It gets easier, brother. I’m telling you. It gets easier. Speaker Michael Lombardi: An hour and fifteen, an hour and a half. Yeah, it’s fine. And then eventually he’s down. Then it probably have about ninety minutes. Let’s say 08:00. It can actually, like, sit down or maybe I have to go clean up and get everything ready for tomorrow. So I gotta packaged lunch, you know, get the house in order and then, you know, it’s almost time for the dream feed for the the young baby. And, so I’ve got about ninety minutes to either, like, throw a Philly game on or hammer out some more work if I if I didn’t get done yet or, you know, try and get ahead on something. But usually I get myself, you know, a solid, like, thirty, forty minutes to kind of, like, unwind and, like, let my brain decompress from all that high activities. We’re also body training. And, yeah, I try to get to bed around 09:30 every night, you know, do the Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nine thirties or Speaker Michael Lombardi: something. 10:30, Speaker Brett Gilliland: 10:30. Okay. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Try it. Nice. Try it. Yeah. Try it. I Speaker Brett Gilliland: like it. That’s good, man. Now you take do you take vitamins? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Rinse and repeat? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Your vitamin gap? Speaker Michael Lombardi: I take, oh, I do like collagen. I don’t do, well, I guess I do like vitamin c, but I don’t I don’t think of a multivitamin, but I definitely should as I’m getting older. But, yeah, I do, like, way protein, collagen, creatine. That’s like a just to go to every day. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. Okay. How do you, how do you challenge your own thinking? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Oh, that’s good. What I like to do is I put my thoughts down and then I have to take a day away and then rethink the whole thing. And, like, with fresh eyes, or I like to bounce ideas off people. I don’t know if it comes through on this podcast, but I’m very stream of consciousness in terms of my the way my thoughts go. So a lot of times my brain is firing faster than I can even get the words out. Or put them down. So what will happen is, I I’m just going like a million miles a minute as this an idea is populating. And I, like, I need to slow it all down to try and get it across to somebody else. So that’s that’s part of it is one. How do I articulate something to another person, even get their feedback? But, like, Once I do have that, it’s getting feedback from people that I trust that I know have different perspectives than me. But know enough about whatever I’m talking about. To effectively challenge it or validate what I’m thinking. So, I’m not going for somebody that’s just gonna tell me yes. Fact, I don’t want somebody to tell me yes. Like, you know, I wouldn’t keep you kind of around if you were just the yes person and that was the relationship. I think that’s why Sarah and I are so successful as a partnership because we do challenge each other in in that sense of different styles of thinking, not one better than the other. That’s just situational. Like, Oh, that was that’s a great thing. I didn’t think of that part. And being really open, like, not having an ego of like, well, this is what I thought and it can’t be improved upon. If that was the case, then I’d be, you know, I don’t know, I’d own Twitter or something. But, you know, you know, I’d have enough money to at least. But Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Right. — Speaker Michael Lombardi: that’s, that’s not that’s not the case. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Are you a journaler? Like, goal planning, journaling? Kind of time away. Like, I always talk about time in the business and time on the business. I like to go about once a quarter. We’ll take our team, go off-site, We plan. We strategize. We think. Do you like that stuff? Do you do that stuff? What’s that? What’s that been like in your life? Speaker Michael Lombardi: So at at Woop, I was a big notebook guy. And that was more for like biz stuff stuff or like keeping notes on that kind of stuff. Once I kinda got into building campaigns or partnerships, I could keep that on the computer. I would say, like, one of my superpowers is keep I can keep a, like, a ton of information in my head, like, fully organized. Not helpful for the people, but for like my tasks. Like, I can, you know, check them off, without putting them down. I wouldn’t suggest that for most people. But I usually do what I will do is, I do set, like, these are mandatory for the day. I always have my, like, long term goals up here and somewhere on, like, probably in my notes on my computer and my phone. But I will have, like, these three things mandatory today, get them done as soon as, like, before noon. They have to be done before noon, and then whatever else, you’re you’re gonna do more. But, like, definitely accomplish these things. Because I think where I think people get into trouble and myself included, You can never let yourself have any smaller winds. It starts to just mount and you it’s it’s easy to start. Viewing things as a failure or you’re not making progress because it’s not as tangible. So, like, it’s very important to have these sort of tangible things, whether it’s like, That’s a great gym session. I, you know, I clean and jerked something or, you know, like, I I accomplished exactly what I wanted. Okay. That’s good. Because there’s gonna be days that it’s not that. Or it’s like, I handled this, this, and this, for my life. Like, you know, we enrolled in preschool, and he’s got his lunchbox. Like, They don’t all have to be business related things. They they are life related to keep me grounded in everything that’s going on. And I I think that that keeps me level and in all of these things. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I I call it the roommate. I read that in a book once, and we all have this roommate that lives with us. It’s that that person, right, sits on our shoulder and may tell us things. It’s It’s our in internal thoughts, our internal conversations that we have. Are you are you good at those? Are those mostly positive? If they are negative at all, do you can you flick that guy off your shoulder? Like, that look like for you? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. The anything negative lasts very little. I I I will, I’d say I’m an irrationally competent person sometimes. And I think that anybody that’s great and anything is I don’t think that there’s, like, a, a non competent pro athlete or top performer anywhere. It doesn’t matter what the business is. You have to be so confident in yourself, even if it doesn’t, like, come you don’t want to come off as arrogance. But internally, you have to be like so confident in your abilities, that you are the best and and you are capable of anything. That those negative thoughts will come, but you’re like, yeah, okay. But I’m better than that. And I can push through this or Yep. You can understand why that thought comes, and you can also talk yourself out of, okay. Yeah. This is a thought. This is just a thought. That’s not the Gilliland I think that that’s something I’ve gotten very good at over time is this is a this is a fleeting thought, and feel it for a second and then move on because this is not who you are, and this is certainly not defining you. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think for me, it’s that that, you see, consuming your thought that it, I’ve learned to talk to it, you know, talk to that thought. Like, almost talk trash back to it. You know, Speaker Michael Lombardi: you should deal with things about it a lot. You know? Speaker Brett Gilliland: And it’s like, man, I okay. I got it. Like, I know sun I don’t like small airplanes, and I know I’m gonna be on a smaller airplane Sunday. I’m gonna have some serious anxiety. If I kinda had it through off and on this whole week, but it’s I’ll tell it. Like, look, I know what you’re doing. You’re trying to make me go there and think all these irrational thoughts, this ain’t happening. Right? And it just kinda stop it, man, and go somewhere else. And that’s that’s been really helpful for me over the years. And and continuing on thinking what is there anything right now that’s maybe in the infancy stage for you, but it’s consuming your thinking right now, you know, as a leader, as a as a father, as a husband. I mean, all the things you’re doing. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Oh, yeah. Existential dread, man. That that’s the thing that actually, and I’m not sure you can appreciate this. Like, what if something happens to me? And and I feel like you don’t ever really think about that until you have kids. Maybe some people do think about it earlier, but the reality of something could happen to me and somebody has to take care. There has to be a way to take care of these kids. So I think that that’s the thing that, freaks me out the most. And nothing nothing else wakes me up in the night. Other than that. Of like, what if something happens and have I done everything I can to make sure that my family’s okay. That’s that’s the overarching thing, which is like you have very little control over. And, you know, I’ve worked a lot on not not letting it have too much control because it is, you know, do what you can do, and then you gotta just live. Things that are right now, we’re going through a lot of changes. Like, you know, we we just moved, a month ago, almost two months ago. We have a new baby. So only last three months. New baby, new new house. My son switching schools. She’s potty training. You know, it’s like, man, can we do more? What else can we go on here? And it’s hard. And it’s, you know, what, our our three year old is, like, having a little bit of a tough time. And that that’s really hard on us too, because — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Michael Lombardi: you know, what happens at daycare is not what it’s like at home. And it’s, you know, it’s changes. It if it’s hard, I just literally had this conversation with Sarah downstairs. You know, if you and I are feeling it, like this level of sort of like anxiety and stress. How do you think a three year old who has no ability to regulate his emotions or articulate any of this stuff is doing. Like, he’s he’s doing better than both of us, I think. So, like, you know, That’s that’s the stuff right now. Yeah. It’s like that’s that’s the stuff that I takes up my head space. It’s like, Working is fun and their their opportunities. Whereas, I can’t even say at whoop. Like, I, when I had no kids, we, you know, young professional, like everything’s great. You can go all in. And — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Michael Lombardi: like, you don’t have to care about anything else. And I I believe that, like, having kids has helped me put things in, in place. As you kinda said, he’s like, you’ve got work time and out of work time and and those sort of thoughts. And, it’s really been great to kind of have that shift of, like, there’s work and there’s life. And works necessary for life, and hopefully there’s some cool things in there. But ultimately, like, it’s the relationship just the people and how you treat them and and the joy you bring to other people too. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s it’s funny. So I I don’t know that I’m that much older than you, but, probably am quite a bit older than you, but in in talking about kids and our lives, and mine are seventeen fifteen. In my fifteen year old man, I dropped him off at school today for the last time that I’ll ever drive him to school. I’m like, Speaker Michael Lombardi: really? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So so I used my second one. So my oldest one drives, and he’s seventeen, almost eighteen, almost sixteen, and then, thirteen, and eight. And you know, one of the things I did when I my kids were at your kids’ age, and I don’t know why, but I I thought about, like, the things you thought about too, like, what if I’m not here? You know, they’re gonna get anything that I ever taught them, all that stuff. And so I would find myself sometimes literally just holding the phone while I’m driving. I wouldn’t look at the phone. Right? Gotta be safe. But do a video and talk to the boys, and then send that to, like, a email thing that we have. Like, you know, they didn’t have emails and phones and stuff back in. Right? And so I would make sure there’s a place where they could go watch those videos of what you stand for, man, because we don’t know. I could get hit by the proverbial truck tomorrow. Right? And it’s like — Yeah. — I want them to understand about who they surround themselves with matters. And now, you know, at seventeen and fifteen, they’re probably, Speaker Michael Lombardi: god. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Here he goes again. Right? This But when they’re three in one or three in three months, I mean, they don’t know that stuff. They wanna hear from dad. So just a thought for people that are listening or for yourself, for food for thought. So, this has been awesome, man. Winning is a choice. You agree with that? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Winning is a choice? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Is Speaker Michael Lombardi: it? Who said that? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I don’t know. I’m I’m asking. I’m asking if you think it’s a choice or I because I believe there’s a lot of things that are choices, but is winning a choice. And, anxious see where you go with that. Speaker Michael Lombardi: I don’t think I don’t think that winning is a choice. I think that, what you’re willing to do to win as a choice. Yeah. Let’s say you’re running hill sprints. Like, everybody that’s running it hypothetically wants to win. But how deep are you willing to go? How much are you willing to make your muscles burn? An egg to win. And if it’s not more than everybody else, then you’re probably not gonna win. So I don’t think winning in a winnings the byproduct of the choices that you were willing to make to win. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I I agree with you. I’m glad you said it that way because that that’s what I think where, you know, take Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, we’ll just pick on those guys. You know, there’s six, seven, eight quarterbacks that come in probably all of them, hopefully, think they can. But realistically, there may be six, seven, eight quarterbacks this year that think they can win the Super Bowl. Right? They all think they’re gonna go there. It’s not a choice, man. There’s so much stuff that goes into it, and it’s preparation. It’s how much more are you gonna work on your body, your sleep, all the stuff that we been talking about all day. So I’m glad to hear you say that because I agree. I think if we’re out there running the hill sprints, everybody wants to win, but it’s how much effort you gonna put into it? So we wanna focus on the effort. Right? Part of the circuits of success for the effort. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. And what did you do leading into, you know, those hail sprints were coming. Did you train for that? Like, or did you just, like, hey, I’m good enough to shop? Because you’re you’re probably not. It, like, it works to a point, but if you really wanna take things to the max, you have to, you know, go above and beyond. It’s everything that people don’t see. And just for the quarterback thing, J one Hertz is the best. And the Eagles will accept Super Bowl. So I Speaker Brett Gilliland: love it. That’s great. But he had a hell of a year last year. He’s fun to watch. Speaker Michael Lombardi: I like that. Love that guy. Well, Speaker Brett Gilliland: Working our listeners find more of Mike Lombardi? Speaker Michael Lombardi: Well, if you want lots of, dad and training content, you can follow me on Instagram at Lombardi Michael. We, you know, Rofish and exists still on the on Instagram. If you’re looking for rowing tips, or any of that sort of training stuff so we’ve we actually worked with Harvard’s Women Rolling Team for, like, last six years. Kinda like strength and conditioning consultant training stuff. So, yeah, that was fun. But, yeah, no. You you you find this around? Sarah Sarah Speaker Brett Gilliland: I need to check that Speaker Michael Lombardi: one out. Yes. She is. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And Sarah Speaker Michael Lombardi: is a good follow, at Sarah Henderson. Where you’ll ask you. We’ll get more content from her than you will from me. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I need to get on that rowing when you get some pointers. I mean, I got a rower about four or five months ago, the Peloton rower, and it’s it’s a hard ass workout. Speaker Michael Lombardi: Yeah. It’s it’s not easy. That’s that’s the thing. It, people make it look easy. It’s not easy. And No. Yeah. So, hey, you can you can always hit me up after this enrolling. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright, man. I will do that. Well, Mike, it’s been awesome having you, man. Thanks for joining me on the Circive Success podcast.

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews two-time Major League Baseball All-Star Trevor Rosenthal. Rosenthal shares his journey to success, emphasizing the importance of hard work and trusting the process. He also talks about the differences between being a starting pitcher and a relief pitcher, his routine and preparation for game day, and his experience playing with Yadi Molina. Rosenthal shares his plans for the next five years, which include completing his Tommy John rehab process and investing in relationships with his family. Full YouTube Video: Unlocking Success with MLB All-Star Trevor Rosenthal   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, got a cardinal player with me, man. I’m fired up. Trevor Rosenthal, what’s going on, my man? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: That’s right. Baseball has in full swing. What’s up, Brad? Thanks for inviting me to come on the show. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Absolutely. Like the old hat lunch there. You got that on your shirt. You got a buddy there. I got a a new, relationship from back in the day. So I get some hats. You get some hats stuff getting made. They’re good stuff. We’re not being paid to say that, we’ll give him a little plug here. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Definitely. It’s a good plug. St. Louis voice through and through. Got a support local Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right, man. That’s right. So, well, you are Trevor Rosenthal. You are a, two thousand and fifteen major league baseball All star. Single saves leader for the cardinals, and what was that? Two thousand fifteen as well for forty eight. Beat my boy Is he there. Didn’t you? You had to beat Is he? What didn’t isn’t that who you beat? Was Jason? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. Scratch him out by just a couple and Lee Smith as well. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Nice. Nice. Two big names for the cardinals. And then, see, yeah, so single saves leader that year. And then two two thousand fifteen, you were the third youngest pitcher with forty plus saves and back to back season man. That was, it was awesome. So fun to watch you. But before we dive into it, being from Lee’s Summit, Missouri, I gotta ask you, were you a Cardinal fan or a Royal fan? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I’d say a little bit of both. There was some great players on both teams, certainly, pool halls or Saint Louis and pretty cool story, actually getting able being able to watch, Carlos Beltran, and also is that growing up in the St. Louis area. Beltran was a teammate, and that two thousand fifteen year, Grinky was an all star game teammate of mine. So pretty surreal experience to have. Now at thirty three years old, I have the young bucks coming up to meet telling me these same stories, and I realized, man, maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned that to Carlos Beltran. I think I probably didn’t Speaker Brett Gilliland: make it Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: feel too young. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. I used to grow up watching you play. So, if you can’t tell us what’s major the man you are today, man. You don’t just, you know, grow up and then become a major league baseball player. There’s a lot there and love to dive into that and start the conversation there. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Oh, yeah. That’s a big question. Definitely has you know, could dive in deep, but I think, you know, it’s fortunate to have great parents, first and foremost, born in Carney, Nebraska, my parents own my dad owned, a restaurant with a business partner in Carney, and watched him work hard and operate that, as a young, young child from age one to Gilliland then at six years old, My dad was about actually my age now, and he decided to go back to law school. Wow. So moved into the Kansas City, Lisa, Missouri area. Back, became an attorney. And, I think a combination of those two things, one being exposed to the farm life, the constant work. I think that that requires then seeing my dad put himself, through a a rigorous course and course work with with education and you should change career paths. Really just rubbed off on me. I think more than anything, grew up as a a normal kid playing sports and eventually had the opportunity to become a professional baseball player and being able to apply that discipline and work ethic that I was that was demonstrated for me as a kid. I applied that to the opportunity I had in the game. Was very he’s very good and paid huge dividends. And he’s, and, yeah, thank you for taking that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I think it’s I’m always fascinated, man, by guys. Like, you didn’t grow up I mean, probably pitched and all that stuff right growing up, but you I know you went to play junior college baseball, I believe. Right? And you were a short stop. And and so Like, how does that conversation go? It’s like, hey, you’re no longer gonna be a short stop, man. You’re moving to a picture. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Conversation is a tough one. As most pitchers will tell you. No one wants to be just a pitcher only. That’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s fun. He got up to the play. It’s fun to hit home runs. I mean, stick a long ball. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Exactly. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: But, yeah, at at a certain point, you can’t hit nine five or you’re swinging at the breaking ball and the dirt over and over again, you might have to take advantage of the powerful right arm at arm. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s awesome. Because I know it wasn’t Jason Mod. Wouldn’t he, catch her, I think, first? I mean, there’s tons of stories, Ankyo, all these guys. It’s, just amazing to me from to get to the level that you guys get to and it wasn’t your main position. It just shows you how athletic you are, and and and again, a mindset, which we’ll talk about. So, So let’s let’s talk about that. So when you when you’re pitching, what’s what’s Trevor Rosenthal mindset on the mound? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. That’s a that’s a it’s a it’s evolving. I think at the end of the day, to sum it all up when you get on the mound, when you get into competition, you have to have some pretty clear and concise thoughts and it starts with confidence. Without confidence, it’s gonna be hard to compete or win at any level, especially against competition is the best in the world at what they’re doing. Yep. My my confidence a lot of times comes from preparation, that has put me in that situation. And then also a mindset of I’m not in an alone. We’re lucky fortunate enough to be in a team sport and have bunch of guys behind me that are are supporting me and really trying to give their best just as I am to have success on that field. So those two things being confident in myself and being confident in the team that that’s behind me. Are are really the clear thoughts. And then from there, you know, we could go down the list that that goes into the preparation of of scouting, and workout, workouts, sleep, diet, all the contributors that go into that preparation. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And and I think what I like now, it seems more than ever. I don’t know if it’s social media or what it is, but you’re finding more and more people focusing on sleep and hydration and, you know, all the things that are so important. Again, whether that’s business or baseball, it is a focus of yours and I’m one of the things I wrote down today is the off season kinda prep versus the in season prep. What was that like? Did that differ for you much? Was it the same? What was that like? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It is a lot different. I think it goes to different stages almost where in the off season, there’s there’s a buildup. We’re trying to really just prepare our body as much as possible. We use that free training phase to continue to build the body, but then also adjusting the mind. To the the season ahead, the challenges that are gonna be ahead. And then throughout the season, it’s a game of adjustments. It’s a game of recognizing the competition, getting their feedback from your results and constantly, adjusting to achieve the goals that you have and ultimate goals winning. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m into that. Taking some notes here, writing something down I thought of. So, so talk about that. So let’s say it’s game day today, you know, the difference between being a starting pitcher and a, relief pitchers, you know, you assume, hopefully, especially the roles you were playing, you’re probably gonna pitch If not every day, you know, you’ll get a day off here and there, but you gotta go with the mindset every day that you’re going in. Right? So so what was that like? You know, it’s It’s 01:10 on a on a Thursday afternoon here, and the game’s not till 07:10. Let’s call it. What’s going on right now for Trevor? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: 01:10. Right now, we have completed the night before. Gilliland end the night with a little recap of how my day went performance wise, maybe make some notes on things that I would like to change or repeat for the following day. So I had a good night’s sleep. Breakfast, a good meal. Are you losing me? Do we cut out? Am I good? Speaker Brett Gilliland: No. I got you. I got you. Sorry. There’s a little delay, but we’re good. I got you. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Okay. Okay. Okay. So right right about 01:00, we’re headed down to the ballpark. Usually, I’m using that time to be on the phone. During the drive with, family friends can take an advantage of that time to catch up and build or maintain some relationships. And then Once we get to the park, it’s, more or less, kind of phone and lock their phone off, and we start the build up for the game. And both of things with, physical physically the body and the mind. I think that’s the difference, the biggest difference of being a professional athlete versus a business leader or, a normal workforce is you have to prepare two things. We’re preparing the body and the mind. And a lot of the time, the how the body feels can affect how the mind feels, and that’s an interesting game that you learn to play. But I’ve learned over the years, the mind is is very powerful. And so a lot of, what what I’ve done and what I’ve learned is to do everything possible to keep that positive mindset and build that momentum and and from the the time I walk in the door and until 07:00 when the first pitch comes is trying to create as much positive momentum as possible and and bring that into that game, mate. Lucky enough to have great teammates that that help with that as well. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, I think it’s too. What’s different is if I come in and have a bad day at work today, they’re not gonna write an article about it. It’s not gonna be all over social media. Right? But you give up the old the old two strike, you know, two out home run, man. Everybody’s gonna be talking about it. And the hell, you know, how’s he do the, you know, all the stuff. Right? And and how much of that do you control that in your mind? Do you think much about it? How do you get through that? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. It’s the good and the bad about playing every single day or being a relief pitcher and having to be available every day is it’s it’s great because you can turn the page and you get a new opportunity, but it’s also bad because, things can start to snowball pretty quickly and not able turn the page and and you’re carrying day to day out with you what happened the night before or what that reporter says. It can really, really get in the way of, it’ll be roadblocks and what you’re trying to accomplish. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah. I, one time mention his name again here. Iseringhausen, he said, you gotta have a short term memory. You know, you gotta be able to turn the page quickly. And so you can’t think about that thing, not not to keep bringing up home runs, but you can’t think about the home run last night because that was last night. Now it’s Thursday night. I gotta go dominate and and become this guy in the mountain. You agree with that? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I agree. And and that’s where the routine, where the preparation is so important. And if you’re able to create enough of that momentum or enough of the routine or enough x y and z habits that that you’re focused on completing a lot of times we hear people talk about falling in love with the process, which I think goes right to right down to what you’re doing to prepare and all those steps that you’re taking. And the the goal is is I wanna clear mine and I want a body that’s ready to perform and if we back up to that 01:00 arrival time, take all the we have we have our time filled all the way up until game time. There’s not you’re not leaving a lot of room for those negative thoughts. And think that’s really important, for anybody and and certainly negative emotions, we’re gonna weigh you down and and that’s you get that feeling of being stuck or you can’t have the, you know, you’re going backwards. You never really been able to stay in one spot. You’re either going forward or you’re going back and when you understand that or you operate in a place where you have that belief. Much more beneficial to keep rolling forward than keep going back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So do you what was the goal planning process like for you? Did you I mean, like, take two thousand fifteen, for example, All Star forty eight saves for the year, single season record for the cardinals. Like, do you sit down the season and say, I wanna have x amount of saves or is it more of, again, you talk about passion for the process. Is it more of that and then the results just happen? What was it like? Yeah. That’s Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I’ve done both. I’ve I was fortunate, early on in my career for whatever reason, was into journaling, was into goal setting and and just taking actually recording them and writing them down and having specific goals and and reverse engineering on how to get there. And I’ve done, both ways where I’ve written down statistics that I would like to achieve. But I found more than anything, the the goals that helped me to get where I wanted to go were were based on more things that I could control. A big big one. I would say number one most of the time was just being a great teammate. And for whatever reason, it it it translated into taking pressure off of myself or when I showed up every day was I was focused more on the energy and and the things that I could do to help help the guy sitting next to me or the things that I could learn from a veteran player that he was sharing with me. And that was a big part of building my confidence and building I guess the opportunities to be successful. And then from there, it was, you know, talking about work ethic and I understood that if I really showed up every single day and didn’t focus on the the feedback or, I guess, I guess, more results that I was getting positive or negative, I showed up every day and just truly worked diligently. Worked hard at what I was doing. I could trust whether or not I was successful or not that I I really just gave all that to have it. And those were the two things that I decided I willing to go to the gray volume. I can look myself in the mirror at the end of my career, at the end of the season, and understand that I at least did those two Gilliland I’m gonna be able to sleep well tonight. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s a big deal. Put in the effort, man. The effort matters. What when you think about you know, those habits and Gilliland let’s even talk more now today. What what are the things that are no mis items? You know, if I followed you around with the camera, What am I gonna see day in and day out that Trevor Rosenthal doing then and now? So I’m sure some of them are still the same. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. Wow. That’s that’s So many things. I’m I’m big on big on nutrition. I think nutrition’s important. I don’t know if that I’m not supposed to say not Gilliland any type of order, just what’s coming to my mind. Yeah. You’re gonna you’re gonna see a guy who who takes care of himself. He eating Gilliland sleeping well, prioritizing. My physical health is gonna be something that you’re you’re gonna see. I think going back to being a good teammate is being respectful, treating people the way I would wanna be treated and bringing positivity into every situation no matter what it is. And then from there, I think continuing to learn, being a student of life, of the game of all things that I’m involved in, and especially profession or careers. I I’ve always wanted to keep a mindset that I’m new and I’m I’m just learning and I have a lot to learn and a long ways to go. So I I’ve been active in continuing to read books or seek out information from individuals. So and and and count down the road before me. Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love that. So who would you say some of your mentors are now? And, you know, in the past, you know, even before professional sports were their mentors during right now, you know, in the future, like who do you see there? Do you go to for advice now? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: You have been so lucky to have so many great mentors growing up. There were multiple former professional players, athletes that had read some of that Gilliland into, in to my everyday training that I was able to build upon. And then, man, being in a in an organization like the St. Louis cardinals, there’s you’re just surrounded by just high character individuals, but then you’re talking about Jason Iseringhouse, and then these guys who are wearing the red jackets, they do such a good job of keeping them in the organization, keeping them involved. And those guys just wanna give back, and they they wanna be a source. And so I’m so thankful for all of them. All of those guys pointing in to me. But one guy that that has really stood out more than anybody was, Matt Holiday. Matt was a teammate of mine for majority of my time in Saint Louis, him and his wife Leslie are amazing people. And he, for whatever reason, so took went out of his way to take me under his wing and kinda put his arm around me from day one and make sure that very minimum, he was shining a light on the path for me to to follow. And it was up to me to follow or listen, but, Yeah. Matt’s had an incredible career and a tremendous impact on and off the field. So I’m fortunate that that there were guys like that, Matt, and The cardinal’s organization, leather jacket wears, even all the way down to, managers that I had in the minor leagues that we’ll never really know their names. Those guys really had a strong impact on myself and a lot of my teammates. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Let’s let’s dig more into that holiday relationship. I mean, we talk about this at work. It’s values alignment. Right? I mean, I think you guys probably my experience is, you know, you’ve always got a smile on your face. He’s he’s an uplifting guy. I’ve been around him a couple times, and he seems you know, to be very positive and thinking big and doing the things you wanna do. You get your Christian values together. Right? So, I mean, I think the values alignment is what sticky. Would you agree with that? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I would. And it’s interesting because we come from very different backgrounds, but but we do. We did bond over a lot of Gilliland I think, aside from our faith and and just walking a little bit different way than, you might expect from a a superstar or top prospects. Walking with a little bit more humbleness and a desire to serve more than you receive, think we’ve really bonded over over work ethic and Gilliland. And I think he saw that in me at an early age, and I certainly saw that in his Ronnie forearms. When I first met him. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Could break you in half. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Oh, he would. He it was impressive. I was lucky. We we actually were able to train together in the off seasons in Saint Louis for multiple years. And, man, what a what a great athlete and specimen of a month or he he is. Now I I I had a hard time keeping up, but I’m trying to find other ways that I could maybe edge out. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. How cool is that for his son, man, to be the number one pick in the Major Lake baseball draft? That’s just phenomenal. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. I was thinking about this the other day. We like I said, Matt’s been a huge influence, and we actually have the same, baseball agent. And we were talking about Matt’s involvement in my career and other player’s career and how how much he’s helped out and and really what I was thinking is is you know, Matt, if you listen at the middle, you just listen to Matt and does what he tells you, you’re gonna be alright. You’re gonna Whatever whatever you whatever happens, you’re gonna be okay. He’s not gonna run you astray. I think a testament to that is nothing better than your own son. As a dad, you have a tremendous amount of influence over your children and to see the success that Jackson is having now. I think is a testament to how great of a a leader, Matt, how it is. So you Speaker Brett Gilliland: think we’ll see him in the big leagues soon. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I yeah. I mean, it’s a it’s a tough industry, but he seems to be taking it in stride at a young age. Seems like it’s just a matter of time at this point. But it’d be exciting. I’ll I’ll I’ll be there. I told Matt, I’m like, let me know when you when you get that call because I wanna be there. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Jump on the first plane and be there. So let’s talk about some of your your best moments in baseball, man. That’s, you know, obviously you’ve been around some big games. You were a stud in the, two thousand thirteen world series as well. So, like, is that the pinnacle? Like, what what was some of the best moments you’ve had in your baseball career? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s so hard. They’re also amazing. Another question that I’ve I’ve played nothing out of eight or nine times now eight or nine different organizations, you know, a common question is, you know, what’s your favorite stage, stadium, what’s your favorite team, your favorite moment, And when you’re in the major leagues, I mean, that’s just such a dream come true. They’re all amazing. Your debut to getting the first call, making a world series appearance, an all star game appearance, really every day that you get to show up and walk in that locker room is is pretty thrilling and hard not to appreciate. So it’s it’s very difficult for me to pick one out. And, I think as I just continue to reflect and and also, you know, just continuing to work and move forward and and seeing what future opportunities look like for me and my career. Just appreciative of of of of just that of the opportunities and that’s such a such a thrilling highlight even to be having a conversation like this today and reflecting on so many amazing moments, that I’ve been able to be a part of. I mean, nothing that I would have dreamed of as a as a kid that I would have called Carlos Beltran, Matt Holiday, Godier, Melina, my goodness, being able to throw a baseball to him over and over again. What a Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s crazy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: what a thrilling time, for me and me to have in this life’s life. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. You know, it’s funny. I just was having this I just gotta have a business lunch and somehow, the person knew. So Yadi was my neighbor for years. And, you know, I told a funny story. I said, you know, most of the time you go and your kids, they go to birthday parties and they walk out. They got like bubbles and like, you know, gum and some candy and like a nice little bag. You know, my wife always makes nice bags for kids when they leave when they were kids were Gilliland it was different at Yati’s house. Man, you’d leave the birthday parties and you’d walk out with like an autograph baseball. From Yadi or Molina. Or, you know, he was, and during the season, you know, summer league baseball for the kids. It was tough, but off season, he’d during off days, he’d be at the game and all of a sudden, there’d be two hundred people watching our little seven year olds play baseball together. But, you know, you watch a guy like that, man. And and it’s incredible to see even when he was out with little kids on what he was teaching them. And and so my I tell those stories because he’s an amazing guy, but what was it like when you’re pitching to yada or Molina? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. There’s Elite competitor, obviously, the talent is on another level, but, the work ethic was second to none. Better than he was a second tonight. There was a very eye opening moment. It actually happened in my major league debut. Have given up a hit, a walk, maybe runners on first and second, and, you know, my heart’s racing, excited. You know, like nothing I had ever experienced in my life, making your major league debut. I remember stepping off the mound, getting the ball back, and actually Rafael for Paul was our short stop. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yep. I remember very vividly him just encouraging me and and just, you know, typical attaboy. Like, let’s get baseball type of lingo. But with this deeper sense of of passion and and just coming from a place where it’s like, okay, this is like yachty, yachty, you know, Rafael Frecall, a story baseball player, a veteran, he’s achieved. All these amazing milestones, he’s towards the end of his career, and I’m just beginning mine. And I have the support of this guy. I mean, It it was just what it just filled me with a with a flame. And yachty was the same way. And I think from that day forward, under standing that as hard as I was working on the mound as much preparation and sacrifice and discipline I had put in to give myself that opportunity or to take advantage of that opportunity, Yadi was behind the plate doing the same thing, if not more. Wanting the same amount or if not more success for me is. Yeah. Man, what a what a teammate to have? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Did you ever shake him off? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s so funny. He’s, so short answer. Yes. Long answer. I don’t know if this is the doc down. I’m sure it has, but yachty had this on on a couple occasions, depending on how the game was going. Usually, it was a lot sided and things weren’t going well. But he if you if I’ve seen him do this multiple times once to me, but if you shook him off too many times, he would give you he wouldn’t give you a pitch sign. He would just give you like a just throw it. Just whatever you want. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, wow. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: And, I mean, amazing, right? You’re talking about some pitchers throwing a hundred miles an hour and Wayne wright type curveballs and man, the guy had no fear. He was he was he was he’s a special special individual. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So it’s probably his way though as well to say, alright. Dude, you think you got it all figured out? Just come on. Bring it. I’m not gonna make I’m not gonna make the call. You you you think you got it figured out. Bring it. Right? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. And, yeah, there was times where I shook him off and, you know, he came out to the man to talk to me and we would settle on, on something, but It’s interesting that that question comes up so often because it gives an illusion that yachty has a stubbornness or, know it all kind of mentality. And and it’s really nothing of that of that nature. I think it stems more from competitiveness. And and if he understands that as a pitcher, you have a reason for what you’re doing or if he sees the work that you’re doing and you develop relationship. There’s no, like, presumed, I guess, I guess, outside animosity that actually taking place. He’s, truly just just wanting what’s best in that situation to help somebody. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I thought it was just so cool a couple years ago that I think it was a young guy on Houston, I think it was. Right? He tried to pick him off at first, and the guy got back there. Did you see that? And then he’s like, you know, he takes his helmet. I was like, here. Go. Go to second. Try me, man. I know I’m late in my career and the guy on a change up throws it down to second, guns him. And he just walks off. I’m like, dude’s a badass. It’s pretty amazing. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: And there’s so many of those moments, I mean, I mean, that’s what’s amazing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s awesome. So you talked about, you played, I think you said seven or eight teams. What, I mean, what was it like playing for the cardinals? I mean, having the birds on the bat compared to the these other teams. Not to knock any other teams, of course, but what was it like playing with the cardinals? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. I think I mean, it’s different. I definitely cardinal organization at a spe in a special place in my heart. It was drafted by the cardinals. Came up through the minor leagues, debuted, and add a ton of career success and highlights that happen, with the birds on the bat. So, it’s tough to compare really anything else to that. I will say as I gone through different organizations and matured in the game, matured as a person. It’s been very enjoyable to learn the ins and outs, especially on the business side and and how different organizations, implement, development, talent development, scouting development, All these different pieces that go into the game that you don’t necessarily see or understand as a young player. Difference from organization to organization. Right. A lot of them. You can see why they might not have as much success as an organization might say. Yeah. Same does things a certain way and when you hear the card in a way, that is something that, stems from A lot of those guys that we’ve talked about, they’ve they’ve passed along the tradition of winning and culture that has a way of of reading that type of success that’s expected. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, let’s hope we get back on that, on that winning train. Right? It’s been a it’s been a tough season for the cardinals to say the least. So, last couple of questions here, man, that call to the minors. What was your or to the majors from the minors. What was that like? Was that a special moment? Obviously, it’s a special moment, but, pretty cool story there. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Very cool story. Actually, I was so I was in AA, which is rare to get the call from your AA. Manager to come up to the maintenance. Okay. My wife was actually in town. We had just gotten married in the off season before. My wife was in town. I was a starting pitcher at the time. And in between starts, you have different duties. My duty that day was to be in the stands with the radar gun charging pitch speeds for armpitcher for the opposing pitcher. And my wife had surprised me to come in town, so she was sitting. I may always get her sit, like, couple seats away or a road back to make it you know, like, I’m I’m here to work in, but we can we can talk a little bit in between innings. And so, the game goes by. Manager calls me into the off office after the game. And going into that office, I was certain I was in trouble for talking to my wife during the game, which is the most I wrote a part of the situation. But it gives me the call. It gives me the information. It tells me I’m going up to the big leagues, and I’m able to my wife’s there, so we’re able to celebrate it’s an amazing moment. It’s not completely unexpected, which was really cool. And then being young and and having an opportunity that, I mean, you just every child, every young ball player dreams are coming to the major league, but I tell that story because I think that mindset of that I had of thinking I was in trouble. I mean, that’s been from, me understanding, like, you know, this opportunity I have is so special and, I expected that that opportunity. So much. I respected the organization. I didn’t wanna do anything to ever hurt that. You know, other than having bad performance on my field. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I think that really helped me as I gotten some major leads and continued have success, I think it it helped me to stay focused and not get distracted by, a lot of the other things that come along with being a major league baseball player. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you get the call, you get, so I guess you were, what, in Springfield, Missouri at that time, or where were you at? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. Springfield, Missouri, Hammond, Parkfield, a great place to play baseball baseball baseball. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you’re so you get the call. So then you physically getting like a vehicle. You’re you and your wife getting a, you know, got a bag and you you head up to Saint Louis and and you you park, you walk in. I mean, what is that like? You walk in that major league locker room for the first time. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. Now today after ten years of major league service, it seems normal. But at that time, Speaker Brett Gilliland: But that first one, right, you’re walking in there. There’s, you know, I guess pool halls would have been gone at that time. Right? But then you got Yadi and Wayneo and these guys. And so what’s that like? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: It’s just everything at that level is just so big. Just the locker room, you know, the the food that’s available is ten times what you have in the minor leagues. The the uniforms are always pressed and clean to perfection everything in your lockers everything, from the the visceral experience to having the interviews. You have these big cameras with microphones and quarters and suits and lights. You know, you go from playing in a stadium with a single deck of seats to a stadium now that has has three decks of seats. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: There’s all these things, like I said, that seem normal now because I’ve gotten accustomed to it, but I remember at twenty two years old, walking into this, and it’s just, I mean, an incredible rush of adrenaline to understand. Okay. Like, there’s people actually showing up to come see me play per se. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, and also too, I gotta think, you know, I’m in the money business. So you gotta think that first time you look at your bank your checking account after, you know, probably playing baseball for a month versus the minor league double a what you get paid. It’s like holy crap. Like, this is the real deal. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: That was a cool, experience too that I, I kind of forget about, but, because I I was drafted twenty first round. Didn’t have a big signing, but I, so I never really seen commas in a check before. And, when when you get called up and you sign your your major league contract that they’re selecting, there’s all I guess, all the legal that goes into that, but it actually took place just in the equipment room and the laundry room next to the dryer with, with the traveling Secretary, but I remember looking down and seeing the amount that I was gonna be paying the thinking Oh, like, you know, I’m I’m good. Like, I made it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. Yeah. Now I get the pension to ten years. All that stuff is beautiful, man. Congrats. So, what’s what’s the focus, man? What’s the next five years hold for you? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah, that’s so going through a rehab right now of, Tommy John actually hurt my elbow the first day of this season, which with Detroit. So I have about a twelve month recovery process on that. And I really just, at this point, taking it day by day, and going back to a lot of those fundamentals. Like we talked about earlier, where I’m taking care of myself, making sure physically mentally, you know, taking moving the ball forward continually every single day, and that will eventually lead to me completing this rehab process. How my body’s feeling, what my performance looks like. And then, if I wanna pursue opportunities to continue to keep playing at that point, then also continuing to learn, reading books, taking a online class here and there to continue to expand our challenged myself, I think, more than anything. I really enjoy that. And then, being a dad, enjoying my family, my wife, and kids, That’s something that is, you know, it’s it’s very rewarding and as much as rewarding as it is to be a professional and to have the compensation and the rewards that come along with being a high achiever. Nothing that compares to the limited amount of time that we have to be dads and then to invest in relationship with with the spouse. House. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Best job in the world, man. Well, Trevor Rosenthal has been a complete honor to have you, man. It’s been awesome. Loved watching your career with Saint Louis, and, we’ll continue to watch your career. And, so I hope that arm gets healed up and get you back on the mound, and, we’ll see you out there. But, working on listeners to find more of you. Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. We’ve been posting some more content. Recently on the x platform, formerly Twitter. Instagram is a great place. I try and be active on both of those. Mediums and, yeah, would love to interact with anybody that you’d like to follow. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think you got a new logo you made too, didn’t you? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: Yeah. The boys at Hat Launch again. Shameless bug, but they helped me out putting together a logo, and I’ve been sporting it recently. I’ve actually had a lot of really cool feedback and people who are friends and family that would like to be involved with that. So maybe there’s something there. Maybe there’s a business in the future. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And what’s the goal with that? You know, is there anything with that? Or is it just because it’s cool or are you gonna do something with it? Speaker Trevor Rosenthal: I think at this point, it’s more or less, doing the things that Matt Holiday did for me. I have a lot of earned experience in the game and and in life and to share that. If one thing helps one person, it was all for it. But, you know, the brand and the social media stuff. That’s just today’s today’s world. And so, trying to figure it out just like everybody Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like it, man. Just feedback for you. I love seeing that, you know, the workouts and just, you know, it then it inspires me. Alright. I gotta go that next mile, man. I gotta do a harder workout today. When you see that type of stuff. So I appreciate you doing it all, man. And it’s been awesome having you on the Circive Success, brother. Thanks for being with me.  

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Kristen Holmes, the VP of Performance Science at Whoop. Kristen shares her impressive resume and discusses the importance of tracking and understanding stress levels, nasal breathing, and circadian alignment. She emphasizes the importance of taking control of our lives and making choices that will benefit our future selves. Lastly, Kristen talks about Legacy Expeditions, a company owned by former special operations members that attempts to skydive into all seven continents in seven days to raise money for Folds of Honor. Tune in for recommendations on stress management and different tips to improve your overall health! Kristen Holmes // Circuit of Success Full Video   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland today I’ve got Kristen Holmes with me, the VP of Performance Science at Woop. Whoop. It’s awesome to have you. How are you today? Speaker Kristen Holmes: I’m doing great. Thank you so much. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Sorry for the technical difficulties we had there, but, we’re we’re at, you know, Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. If that’s all we have to be challenged with today, we’re we’re doing alright. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. You’re exactly right. Well, you, have an amazing, resume, and, I’m gonna read just a little bit of this stuff just so our our listeners get a a little gist of who you are, but I think it’s really cool going back even to, even before this, what I have here in college, you were a three time all American, two time big ten athlete of the year at the University of Iowa. Makes my cousin Brad happy. He said, I finally I’d I sent him this this morning. He said, you finally got some talent on there, you know, humor soon. Speaker Kristen Holmes: The Speaker Brett Gilliland: competing in both Field Hockey and Basketball of two thousand twenty one University of Iowa Hall of Fame and Ducki, seven year member of the US National Field Hockey team, one of the most successful coaches in Ivy League history, twelve league titles in thirteen season in a national championship at Princeton, You have an MIT, sloan, artificial intelligence certificate in MA from psychology and sports performance, and bachelor’s of political science from Iowa, you are a PhD candidate, and you’re just serving the world. It’s amazing what you are doing. So thanks for being with us. My question for you, Kristen, if you can, we’re gonna start off kind of a big wide question is what has helped make you the woman you are today? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Oh, I think, probably being, really introspective about the things that I care about and and what I wanna think about, how I wanna apply my attention, and just ensuring that I’m creating outlets for those things. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: You know, so I think it’s and then, you know, from a micro perspective, just ensuring that those things that I say care about you know, my behaviors are laddering up to that. And I think that for me, that has just been a very simple framework I think from a very young age that I’ve just tried to apply consistently. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: And and I I think, you know, how you get to that is is definitely through awareness and introspection. And I just don’t know how we can as human beings, like, I I don’t know There there might be other paths, but I I think, you know, taking the time to really understand how we want to apply our effort and and the things that we wanna think about is is just, like, such a core stepping stone to, like, leading of flourishing kind of happy life. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And and so, obviously, you don’t just show up to University of Iowa and do all the things you did. So your upbringing was a big part of Did do you think did your parents focus a lot on the outcome or more on the effort that you were putting in as an athlete? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I think you’re losing some process versus outcome, and as a coach, this is something that I think, I, thought about a ton as a coach and as an athlete. And, you know, I would say that’s because there’s real nervous system implications, to each, which we can certainly talk about. But, I would say my my parents, were really just, like, let me my thing. I mean, my dad, my, my, my dad played football in Nebraska, you know, a, a big time athlete himself, and I think he really pushed my brother, to play football, and my brother ended up quitting in seventh grade. And my, you know, brother’s a few years older than I am, and and I think that, like, really crushed my dad’s soul And I I think, like, so when it came to me, he just kinda let me do my thing. And so but I was, I think, always I was just really a a driven kid. And I had, you know, a pretty tough household growing up. You know, my mom was, just she struggled with alcohol. Her whole life had a lot of mental health issues, so my dad traveled a lot. So, you know, I was I was pretty unsupervised, to be honest. And, you know, I just I found team sports as, just an unbelievable home, you know, where I could be with other folks and, you know, other other kids, you know, coaches. Yeah. It was really, like, my outlet. And So I was always, you know, honest many teams as I could, you know, that would take me and, that I could that I could, you know, walk to or, you know, find rides to. And, yeah, so I I think from for for me, you know, my I don’t know that my my parents really kind of, had a lot of influence in terms of process versus outcome. But I do know that, you know, regardless of how I played, you know, especially as I got older and it was really competing at higher levels, didn’t matter how many goals I scored, how many, you know, baskets I had. Like, you know, it’s it was, my dad always you know, love me unconditionally, and, you know, never seemed to place, you know, my my worth on on my performance that said, I did. And it took me a long time to understand that and unravel it and start to, not think about my self worth in the context of my performance levels. And this was probably one of the harder, you know, when I think about my early adulthood, this is probably one of the the hardest things I had to work through. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It it’s it’s, but don’t you think that also that that hard being hard on ourselves that maybe there there was fear, maybe there was just that pressure, maybe it was just that desire to be great. Like, don’t you think that matters though too? I mean, you gotta want it. Right? You gotta wanna you gotta go take it to the next level. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. But I I think understanding our motivations though is really is important. You know, like, you know, what what is driving me? You know, am I running from something? Am I running to something? Am I motive by motivated by emotions of trust? Am I motivated by emotions of fear? Know, they have two very different, impacts on our physiology, on our, you know, on our brain. Of course, those are interrelated. So I think getting to a, a place where you’re you’re motivated by by trust and and you’ve got I think, and there’s, I think, some purity in in in those motivations. I I think that is kind of a sustainable framework, whereas I think operating out of fear, will come at a cost, eventually. And it’s gonna through your head in in a way that probably aren’t gonna be proud of. So I I think understanding the the root of emotions and and trying to and I guess a a very simple example, you know, in my motivated by motivated by, you know, a fear emotion, fear based motion would be, you know, jealousy, for Gilliland and, you know, kind of some of those social comparisons that can, that can come forwards, or am I motivated by you know, love of the sport and and just a a passion for the technical aspects of the sport or you know, trying to solve like a problem. You know, so I I think understanding those motivations, I think, are are really important, in terms of, just from a health, a mental health perspective. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So if if we can, let’s dive into your day. I mean, obviously, super busy the work that you were all doing at Woop, and and we’ll dive into Woop here in a second. But if we can talk to us about what’s a typical day, like, you. I know there’s no probably typical day, but the the no — Yeah. — the no mis habits that we’re seeing that Kristen’s doing day in and day out. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. So I guess I’ll talk about today. You know, I woke up at at 6AM. I’m really lucky I have a a track right by my house. Yeah. 6AM, crushed about, I don’t know, I guess, eight ounces of of element. Yeah. So it’ll salt my water. And then hit the track and and I ran, I don’t know, four or four hundreds, eight, two hundreds, and ten, one hundreds, and did, some core work, some mobility, jog back home, had a protein shake, showered, got in the car with my son, drove him to, the New England junior championships playing, in the p the the New England junior PGA championship — Much. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Kristen Holmes: today at Stow acres. Yeah. So get some car time with my boy and, yeah, I dropped him off and then just headed into work. So I I work in Boston, and Yeah. I think one of the things that I’m I’m working on, you know, as we kind of are back in the office is just, thinking about my movement throughout the day. You know, I might have crushed a workout this morning, but, you know, that sedentary behavior is, like, crushing on on health, and there’s more research kinda coming around there. So, yeah, just making sure that I’m, you know, using my standing desk and moving around the office. Enough throughout the day. But, but, yeah, we’ll get to think about all sorts of cool problems today. Gonna give a little lecture to the data science steam on physiology. So I’m kind of pumped for that. Yeah. And then, Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what will be in that what’s in that lecture today? So what was so what are you talking about with this team. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. So so just so basics of of physiology, so just kind of understanding, some of the core components. So, you know, what is homeostasis? You know, why is physiology research interesting? Gilliland, you know, why do we care about it at whoops or just kind of helping people understand the research aspect of of some of the things that we do here here at whoop And then really just kind of, using the the, obviously, we’re physiological monitoring device. Right? So, data science team is is building our algorithms so and a lot of those folks don’t have backgrounds necessarily in physiology. So what we’re trying to do is just, you know, give them a basic understanding so kind of a science of whoops, so really thinking about physiology through the lens of a boop, you know, across sleep, strain, recovery. So they can kind of understand, Alright. How do how do certain behaviors, drive, you know, your internal status? So your ability to kind of maintain homeostasis or adapt to stimulus. You know, there are definitely, you know, behaviors that we’re driving people towards that will help them, be able to adapt to stress in, a more functional way. And that’s really core to kind of what we’re we do at Woop. Right? We wanna give people information so they resurface data that helps them understand how they’re adapting to stimulus. And, you know, am I adapting in a functional way? So that is is, you know, the demands, of my of the body of the organism. You know, am I am I kind of, enabling, am I living in a way that allows me to kind of match my the demand of my environment. So kind of understanding that connection, or or their mismatches, you know, and what does non functional kind of adaptation look like? So, yeah, so that’s kind of Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Kristen Holmes: what the, yeah, the presentation was Speaker Brett Gilliland: So if you can, give us, give our listeners just the the whoop commercial if you of what is a whoop. Obviously, I wear it, it’s my sleep, my recovery, my strain, you know, stress. All those great things, but give us give us the whoop from the inside What’s that commercial and and what is a wheel? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s a twenty four seven physiological monitor device. We’re aiming to kind of coach you toward behaviors that will help you control the trajectory of your health. That’s really what we’re after. Like, we wanna help you, Brett, understand your physiology better so you can, make choices that will, allow you to be more present in, in your life and give you more energy, and, and ultimately, I think live your values kinda to go back to the very first thing that we talked about. Like, you know, it’s all about, like, do I have the energy and and the the presence and the attention, to be able to, do the things that I care about in my life. And really I think that’s that’s our kind of our core mission. It’s not a watch. So there’s no watch face. It’s, and as a result, we’re able to put all of our computational power into kind of, the fidelity of of collecting every single heartbeat you know, at a at a beautiful sampling rates, industry kind of standard. So as a result, our underlying data is really, really good and enables us to build features that help you understand, how your you know, how you’re sleeping, how you’re recovering, and the kind of, what type of load you’re putting on your body. We help you understand your stress so we have this really cool new feature, called the stress monitor that helps you understand your your stress throughout the day. So this is non activity stress, so not the stress from my track workout, but the stress that, I’m incurring in other aspects, parts of my day. And we have a strength trainer feature. So, where we can actually quantify the neuromuscular load, of your of your workout and feed that into our recovery and and also kind of help you get credit for those those strength training workouts, which is always kind of a pain point for our members because It’s very cardiovascular, you know, our strain score is very cardiovascular. And as a result, you know, I do a track workout. I get a twelve strain. But I go into the gym and I feel like I crush myself in, you know, a similar kind of way, but I only get a seven, and that has always been a little bit of a pain point But now that we can actually measure your neuromuscular kind of, load and and effort, we’re able to actually, quantify that and kind of give you, commensurate credit, for that. And and I think most importantly kind of help you understand how you’re recovering from that load. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I I love the stress monitor. I just this on a podcast the other day I was talking about and actually pulled it up during a podcast where sometimes people are like, oh my gosh, I gotta be you know, this person was live in the studio with this and it’s, you know, I’m it’s it’s nerve wracking. It it could be all this stuff. Right? You could think that’s a high stress situation. But when I pulled it up to prove a point and when I’m doing this with clients as well, I was, like, at a point eight on the stress meter. Wow. Which is low. Right? Which for me and correct me if I’m wrong here, but that tells me that I’m doing something that I love to do. Right? I’m in line my values. I love sitting with my clients. I love sitting in the podcast learning. Like, that’s a big deal versus something else that could be super stressful. Then I can go back throughout my day and look, where was my stressful moments? Get more of that on my calendar or less of that on my calendar. Is that a fair way to be using that? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I think that’s a a beautiful story. And and yeah. I mean, I think if we how we perceive stress is really, really important. And it’s gonna impact our physiology. It’s gonna impact our heart. Right? If I perceive that stress to be good, you know, I am gonna that stress will maybe it could look the same on the graph. As if I perceive it bad, but my ability to recover from that stress is, likely gonna be better than if that if I perceive that stress to be bad. So there’s kind of that component that I think is interesting and important for people to understand lots of science behind that. But I think the other thing too, Brad, is like you it also might speak to just your fitness level too. So, you know, what might be kind of even if someone was doing exactly the same thing. Well, so let’s say you and I, we’re both, like, loving what we’re doing right now. Like, this conversation’s, like, super excited and it’s it’s aligned with, like, what we value. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m at a I’m at a point three right now. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of that is just, is your comfort level in the setting is, yeah, the alignment, right, like you’re just fully aligned. You have a really good baseline fitness you know, some people are gonna rev higher just because they’re not as fit. Right? So, so yeah, I think there’s like a lot of things kind of happening probably that, give you that low stress. But but, yeah, I mean, generally speaking, like, you know, and you have a green recovery today. So your body is, like, really primed to adapt to all sorts of different types of stimulus today, including kind of the cognitive, stimulus. And there is no question that, you know, if you’re living your values, you know, your behaviors are, you know, aligned with what you say you care about, and you’re incorporating you know, different modes of of exercise and you’re, you know, keeping your heart healthy. You are gonna have a lower stress score. And the other thing that we see correlate with kind of your daytime stress is, is how you sleep at night. So if you have really so if your perception and this is just like we need to do like a proper studies. So this is just anti data, but it seems that if you perceive stress bad and you’ve got really bouncy, high stress throughout the day, you know, unmanaged stress that will rear its head in sleep. So when you look at your stress monitor, you wanna have a really flat sleep. Like, you wanna have really low sleep. So that’s something to kinda keep an eye out for. And I noticed for me, when I am not incorporating my breath work. And when I talked about my day, movement’s important, and also kind of getting in just 05:30 seconds, five sets or reps, I guess, of of thirty seconds of of breathing. I try to do that throughout the day to kind of mitigate that negative stress accumulation. So I think if we’re if we’re not managing stress throughout the day proactively, it can rear its head in sleep, and that’s definitely you know, a relationship that we see on stress monitors Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. — is kind of unmanaged daytime stress, and and kind of how bouncy your sleep is. Speaker Brett Gilliland: K. That and that’s I love the awareness of that. So that that’s helpful. And and so maybe somebody that doesn’t wear a whoop yet, well, hopefully they’ll all go buy a whoop right now. Right? That’s right. You’ll buy this. It’s just a monthly fee and you get an unbelievable amount of data. And I what I love is I was just with a guy, golfing in a in a charity golf term on Monday, and he was wearing So, you know, we spent, you know, an hour probably throughout the day talking about whoop, which is great. Speaker Kristen Holmes: I mean, Speaker Brett Gilliland: he doesn’t do the journal. I’m like, dude, you gotta do the journal. I’m like, the the monthly stuff you get at the end of the month. Just tell me what what helps my sleep, what hurts it, what helps my recovery, what doesn’t. But for somebody that doesn’t listen, or doesn’t and I’m sorry, doesn’t wear a woot that talk about that breathing thing. Like, how important is that throughout your day? I can’t track it because I don’t wear one, but if I did, what’s that doing for me? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. You know, it’s it’s it’s such a, I suppose simple intervention, and I and I think what’s really powerful about our breath is it’s always with us, you know, and and we can kind of be, you know, make conscious choices of around how we breathe for the most part. You know, I think we wanna try to nasal breathe as often as possible. So if you kinda notice yourself walking around with your mouth open in not talking or eating, close your mouth. And I think, you know, there are, like, it’s tape that you can wear over your mouth. Let me Speaker Brett Gilliland: give me one of my questions. Speaker Kristen Holmes: So, yeah, which can be super helpful when you’re trying to build a habit. You know, my son, and my daughter both you know, had to were kind of mouth breathers. And, and, yeah, so taping the mouth when they’re just watching a TV show or on, you know, or doing homework or whatever. But I think becoming an out of nasal breather is very, very important, and a very strong relationship between, cardiovascular health and, your ability to sleep at night. So managing kind of breath throughout the day is very, very important. So you wanna become a nasal beater. And then, I think on top of that, we wanna make sure that and and this is related, but, slightly different. We wanna make sure that we’re, I guess, with every bout of kind of stress that we incur over the course of the day. So let’s say, you know, even though we both perceive this as as good stress, we still need to recover from it. Right? So, you know, after the session doing, you know, thirty seconds of, you know, slow paced breathing, is a great way to, kind of deactivate the nervous system. Right? So even though your stress is really low right now, you’re still, like, slightly at more activated than you would, maybe, in another scenario, right, where you’re not engaged in, like, thinking and, so you wanna just make sure that over the course of the day, you’re having these activated moments, which is awesome and important. And then you’re mapping it with appropriate levels of deactivation. So we’re talking about it from an autonomic nervous system perspective. Right? So if you’re constantly activated, Right? And not mapping that activation with moments of deactivation, you end up building stress. And and these are just kind of acute moments, but they end up being kind of, they end up becoming kind of it becomes more chronic stress, right, if we’re not it. Right? We our body can only, manage activation for so long. So, you know, mapping that activation with moments of of deactivation, the thirty seconds of just, a shorter inhale extended exhale. You can do in through the nose, out through the mouth, or in through the nose, out through the nose, you know, for thirty seconds, you know, four or five times a day will actually go a long, long way to helping mitigate that negative stress accumulation, and most important help you fall asleep and stay asleep at night. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. See, I love this because, you know, I talk a lot about meditation. That that really helped me get through a I’m a very I was. Still am. Very anxious person. Lot of nerves. Right? But the, meditation changed my life. I mean, it literally changed my life of being able to look at anxiety as a ally as a friend, it’s probably never gonna go away, but now how to control it. But I’ve also learned, you know, when I’m in stressful situations, just may maybe you’re in a meeting. Is that breathing part is you can, quote, unquote, meditate or breathe, you know, and lower that heart rate in a meeting, right, without somebody even knowing. That you’re doing that. And I think it’s just so critically important. I love hearing you talk about it. And because we we take it for granted. Right? We wake up. We’re breathing. We go to sleep, we’re breathing. And middle of the night, we’re breathing. It’s like you just do it. But the more you consciously focus on it, the better it is and the better you can perform throughout your day. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. And and I think it’s just, under it’s, I think, underrated as, like, such an important, like, key to help. You know, it’s, like, it it’s the buried entry is actually really low. You know, like, we just literally is closing our mouth. Like Yeah. You know, I I I don’t, you know, have the the actual numbers of of how that actually helps our health span, but it it’s it’s pretty massive, especially given how much we breathe. Right? We wanna make sure that we’re breathing properly. Right? We we haven’t, you know, we’re not, you know, a lot of this mouth breathing is is just a function of modernity. Right? So, yeah, we just need to get get back to nasal breathing, and Yeah. And I and I think, you know, it it’s our our muscles will work more effectively. Our brain is gonna work more effectively. You know, every organ cell tissue in our body, is gonna, work more effectively. So, yeah, nasal breathing is is, I think, really important. And then, and then that breath work. Well, it’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: cool because I’ve seen more and more people, you know, tape their mouth and do all that stuff either while they’re sleeping or while they’re working out. Yep. And while I was, you know, Instagram talking you, getting my research for today. I, you know, I saw you did one, like, oh, three and a half years ago. You were Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: The portal is both. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I’m like, alright. There’s something to this. If she’s doing this three plus years ago, I’m like, alright. There’s something there. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I’ve totally Yeah. I mean, at this point, like, I I don’t have to tape my mouth anymore. But, yeah, I was trying to actually I was taping it during, wait session, so where I really struggle to kind of, keep my mouth closed. Yeah. But, yeah, I was just kind of, yeah, so that that was a a post run about to get into my weight session, and, yeah, I was just trying to kinda ramp up the I guess, difficulty, just by focusing on nasal breathing. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Incredible. Let’s talk about synchronizing our circadian rhythm. What that means. Why is that so important? Let’s talk about it. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. This is another one. I think, right, with breathing, that I think people don’t necessarily, maybe understand or think about or or realize, like, how powerful of a lever it is to improving really every aspect of of human health. So our bodies are naturally, want to naturally align to the light dark cycle. So, you know, right now, it’s day time. So the sun is out. And my body is taking in cues from the environment. It’s taking in cues from my behaviors as well. So when I eat, when I go to bed, when I wake up, when I exercise, you know, when is that mo those moments of stress, when is that the moments of relaxation? So all of these things are are really, are are the cues, the the most important cues that, are gonna tell my body my cells, my tissues, my organs, what it is they need to do. And when we are behaving out of sync, to the light dark cycle that has that puts enormous, stress on my system. So you can think about when I’m aligned, so that’s it’s, you know, it’s the daytime, and I’m getting lots of natural light my body is really happy and it feels safe because it’s it’s what it’s what is it being what my body is expecting indogenously is being kind of confirmed and validated with what’s happening externally. So there’s we call that circadian alignment. When I am awake, for example, when my body thinks it should be sleeping, that puts huge amounts of stress on my body. And as a result, my body feels unsafe. And when your body feels unsafe, it activates the sympathetic branch of the nervous system. So thank cortisol adrenaline. Right? Like, we we need that we need that activation in certain moments during the day, but we don’t want it during when during the night when we should be sleeping. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: So, so that’s just one example of kind of desynchronization and we know from the literature, the extensive literature, when we are when our circadian rhythms are desynchronized, that leads to all sorts of deleterious health outcomes. So we know that you know, I’ll I’ll save some of the really morbid, night shift worker, data because I know it’s like I’ve Speaker Brett Gilliland: read those studies that you guys put in the the in your deal. It’s terrible. Speaker Kristen Holmes: I it’s really tough and, you know, there’s other levers that I think that people can kind of pull to offset some of those negative effects of being awake during, you know, the biological night. But, but bottom line, folks want to try to, create as much synchronization, as much alignment with kind of, the natural light dark cycle. So that’s kind of number one. So, you know, morning, you wanna get as much natural light as humanly possible. You know, and it doesn’t take that much, but get yourself outside, you know, within an hour of waking up, you want, you know, five to twenty minutes, I, you know, an hour if you can swing and I, and I know that’s not practical for everyone, but, but do your best to get outside. That’s gonna set off a just a cascade of, I guess, information that that, you know, to your cells and your tissues and organs that are gonna tell them what it is that they need to do. That it’s time to be awake. This is really important information, to kind of keep you, healthy. The next piece, necessitating kind of lever is at when the sun goes down, you want to restrict light. I think it’s important for folks to note to on stand that we actually haven’t adapted as the species to, blue light after the sun goes down. Again, we think about it if our for anchor principle is about our make helping my body feel safe. This is a a core component when I am exposing myself to a lot of bright artificial light after the sun goes down. Again, my body doesn’t feel safe. I don’t end up producing melatonin, which is the the kind of hormone of darkness, and, melatonin only gets only gets released when, there is darkness. So if I am exposing myself to huge amounts of artificial light, it’s gonna be really hard to fall asleep. And melatonin isn’t just about making me fall asleep. It has neuroprotective, effects. It, melatonin, reduces cancer proneness. It it has just a, a wide ranging, impact on our on our kind of Gilliland and and when we’re depriving ourselves of of that, where, you know, that will come at a a huge cost. So light and managing light is kind of the number one, I think, circadian behavior. The second piece, of information that our body is trying to, to, align to is when you’re eating your meals. You wanna try to eat all your calories when the sun is up ideally. That is when our our body is most primed to metabolize food, and that is when it’s expecting to have to digest food. When you eat outside, of the, of of daylight hours. Again, that it it’s metabolically. It’s very expensive. Your body has to work you know, exponentially harder, to metabolize that food because it’s just it’s it’s not interested in digesting food. It’s interested in deactivating and resting. And we see at population levels data on whoop. And folks report that they’re eating, food within two hours of bed, we see huge negative impacts on sleep, So their ability to drop into deeper stages of sleep, we see negative impact on recovery, markers of recovery, so heart rate and and resting heart rate, respiratory rate. So Tim restricted eating is what we kind of call it. We call it consolidating, and time restricted eating is different than fasting. Fasting has a caloric restriction component. This is really just consolidating all of your calories within, a a window of time, 08:10, twelve hours, ideally when the sun is up. Yeah. So that’s like the second lever that’s, like, really critical. And then, the final lever that I’ll I’ll note is just you know, going to bed and waking up at consistent times. And what will enable you to do that is, restricting light after the sun goes down and seeing light first thing when you wake up. And when you do that, you will fall asleep and stay asleep generally. Have just this beautiful restorative sleep for the most part. So but sleeping stabilizing sleep wake time, and we see in our data, you know, for every minute after forty five minutes, of variability of when you go to bed and when you wake up. We see, decreases in, heart rate variability, which is negative, and increases in resting heart rate. So you wanna try to Yeah. So you wanna try to keep that window variability as narrow as possible in terms of when you wake up and when you go to bed. You don’t wanna have, like, you know, you don’t want it to be you know, an hour, two hours, three hours. Like, you wanna try to keep that band as as narrow as possible. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It it’s, so I’m on the insights on the whoop tab or the whoop app and, it it’s funny. So a couple of them I wanna go through. So to to confirm what you’re saying there, obviously, you’re much smarter than I am, and you don’t need my confirmation, but My consistent wait time is eight percent added to my recovery, and my consistent bedtime is five percent. You know, so those may not sound like a big deal to be, but five to eighty percent is a big number. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Right? That’s that’s sign that’s clinically significant. Yes. Yeah. There are huge huge changes. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And and so and then, the other one, and this is one of the biggest helpers for me. And you guys do that nice little push notification. Tell me, hey, Brett, you know, go to bed. You know? And so sometimes I’m like, shut up, whoop, you know, I don’t wanna hear you. I know. I need to go to bed. Right? Speaker Kristen Holmes: I know. I know. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But the sleep performance. Right? Speaker Kristen Holmes: One more show. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Seventy five percent plus sleep performance was seven percent. So that’s controllable. Control the controllables. Right? So now I know if I just put myself to bed like you would a child, I’m gonna be better off tomorrow, you know. And so the the one that I’m that I’m passing it by all the time is, a device in bed. I give myself some time, not every night, but sometimes ten to twenty percent or ten to twenty minutes of time with my phone, maybe just brainlessly scroll or whatever. I have a four percent more recovery better recovery when I get my device versus not having my device. That one’s weird to me. Now I’m usually wearing blue light blocking glasses, So I don’t know if that is offsetting it. I don’t know, but Speaker Kristen Holmes: it’s weird. For sure is. Yeah. So I think I think if we’re wearing blue light blocking glass, The lights generally are kind of dim, and we’ve got, you know, the on the phone, we’ve got the, you know, the filters on. That will definitely no question that that, I I I would say that I don’t know if it mitigates the the impact entirely, but as long as you’re falling asleep, not having a hard time falling asleep and you’re staying asleep, oftentimes we’ll fall asleep, but then we’ll end up with fragmented sleep. So I would look at your sleep quality, on the days where, Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Because sleep performance is more of just a function. You said that it it’s related. It says, it improves sleep performance. What was the metric that it improved? Speaker Brett Gilliland: It, let’s go back to it. Performed, positive impact, accounting of the four percent impact, on my recovery. Speaker Kristen Holmes: On recovery? Okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Alright. So Yeah. So it’d be interesting to see kinda how it might impact, the quality of your sleep because we know that But then these are correlations. Right? It’s not causation. So I just keep, you know, keep that in mind. And, you know, we’re not able to kind of perfectly constrain our models necessarily. So, you know, there’s gonna be some where you’re like, oh, wow. This is interesting. Yeah. But that said, like, you know what? Scrolling for you is relaxing. Like it’s — Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Kristen Holmes: you’re kinda checking, meant some sort of mental box that’s important. And as a result, like, you know, it doesn’t have a negative impact. So when you are able to kind of go through and then part of it too is routine. Like, I think it’s like we’ve got this stack of behaviors in the lead up to bed that are gonna either promote our our sleep and recovery or they’re they’re not gonna promote our sleep and recoveries. That is just a behavior that Yeah. That seems to not have a negative impact. I’d be interested on on how impact is further. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: As we’re thinking about it, talking about it, it’s it also makes me thing too is, like, that’s maybe the one time in my day where I’m not, you know, doing something for work or doing something that nobody needs me. It’s just, like, I I call it Brett Time. Right? It’s like this is I can just chill. Right? And just kinda brainlessly look at something. And it’s people I enjoy to follow. Right? I get I get inspired. So Yeah. It’s probably that. So that’s good stuff. Let’s dive into if we can a little bit about, cold plunge versus sauna we talked about, obviously, the importance of sleep, but I wrote down cold plunge, sauna, sleep, hydration, movement. Those are all, you know, critically important to anybody that wants to, you know, do anything in life, but Talk about the cold plunge versus the sauna. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Okay. So I this is yeah. This would be part of the physiology lectures talking about this, concept of Hormesis. And everyone should kind of understand that that concept is basically what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. And and that’s really what’s happening with Sauna, you know, these stream temperatures, you know, sauna and cold plunge are kind of creating, this phenomenon that’s called Corimesis. It’s it’s a stress. You’re you’re stressing the the body, in a in a functional way, that’s, that allows you to, basically, adapt to future stress in a more functional way. So it’s kind of like, you know, so you wanna for organisms, like, it’s really important that they undergo certain amounts of stress. And and frankly, modernity has, like, removed so much of that stress. And as a result, we have become, I think, a lot softer. The comfort crisis, Michael Easter. I actually just talked to him the other day. He’s, like, such a fascinating man, but, But I, you know, I think that we need to that’s why I think you see this emergence of, like, you know, people engaging in Gilliland cold plunge because, you know, we just don’t actually get enough stress, that type of stress throughout the day, like environmental stress. Right? And and what I’m talking about is, you know, kind of extreme heat and and stream Gilliland, like, our body having to kind of adapt and work through that is actually, is is important. And so, that said, there are there is a point of diminishing returns in both of these modalities. So, you know, Sauna, I think the recommendation is, you know, force for four by twenty minutes, at, I think, you know, one eighty degrees Fahrenheit, will elicit, you know, tons of positive effects on, on on the them. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Kristen Holmes: And cold plunge, I think very simply, you know, I think if you I think you it’s really not that cold. Like, you can do fifty nine degrees or less. You know, the the colder, probably the shorter amount of time. I think fifty nine degrees, you probably need to spend five or six minutes in a in temperature like that to kinda elicit the the effect. But from what we’ve seen, you know, twelve minutes per week, divided into kind of four sessions, where you’re you know, kind of shocking the system, cold shock heat shock, there’s lots of, you know, you release endorphins and, you know, so there’s like a cascade of of really positive, you know, neurobiological kind of components that, that I think p get people to come keep coming back to these modalities. It’s, like, painful as you’re doing it, especially the cold But, but afterwards, you know, you get this, like, you know, hit a dopamine and, yeah, and you feel really good. But but really what that what that does, and and I think when we talk think about this principally. You know, there’s just a bunch of behaviors that we can engage in that’s, kind of stress our our system and in a in a in a way that’s gonna allow us to adapt to future staff stress, more more functionally. So I think when we think about cold hot. Like that it there’s an immune, immuno protective, element to that as well. So we’re increasing our resilience, right, by undergoing this kind of short term intentional, temporary stress. Right? And it’s important to, like, be be getting thrown into a thirty two two degree a lake, off a boat without knowing I mean, and and not knowing if I can recover them, that that is not good stress. Right? Like that’s — Right. Right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Kristen Holmes: that’s So what I’m talking about is is really intentionally kind of, you know, choosing these modalities. So that intention I think is is is kind of part of the the package. But, But, yeah, really core. You mentioned hydration. We also see that really, really strongly to recovery when people are under under hydrated, we see, you know, that impact recovery really significantly. So just, yeah, getting, you know, just like an ounce for every, you know, pound of of, for, you know, you know, per pound is is per prescription. If you’re working out a lot Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So if a hundred and seventy pounds, I gotta I gotta drink a hundred and seventy Speaker Kristen Holmes: dollars a lot. Yeah. And it’s probably, like, maybe point seven, point six. It just depends on your activity. Well, if you’re not, like, out and about a ton, and working out hard, Yeah. I I’d say point six point seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. Yeah. Perfect. Let’s let’s talk about this new book you’ve got. Speaking of that, we’ll take a water break here. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I know. Yeah. So I I actually I wrote, a poem for my daughter, for for, Christmas. And it was entitled yes, and it was just kind of all the lessons I had kind of learned in my life. But but we’re, not all of the lessons, but, just around, you know, how do we how do we think about, What what we what do we what do we what do we say yes to? And and and in a in and I kinda try to put a positive spin. We talk all about oh, what are we saying no to? And I just wanted, like, kind of a set of principles for her where she can kind of think about, alright, what are the things that we actually say yes to? And you know, you know, yes to the curves of the pedals, the great problems you wanna solve. Like, you know, so it was really around, like, you know, saying yes to the great problems you wanna solve, like, you know, saying, you know, and so it was like kind of an emotional, kind of journey, you know, for me to kind of, I think, write this, write this book. But it started out just as, you know, really a poem, and I I framed it for my daughter. And you know, and she was like, mom, she’s like, I really think other girls would really benefit from these messages. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Wow. — Speaker Kristen Holmes: and, yeah, which is, like, so sweet of her to say. And And she’s like, you should put this into a little book. And so, I started working on the illustrations, and, Yeah. And and just, yeah, it just published it a month ago. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. I know it’s on your Instagram bio that you can find a link there and buy that on Amazon. So we’ll put that in the show notes and how cool. I mean, think about even the mindset there. Like, I mean, you just kinda set it and Like, it’s just normal in your household. Your daughter’s, like, put that into a book. Speaker Kristen Holmes: When you Speaker Brett Gilliland: think about that, right? Like Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Not everybody just thinks about, hey, let’s take a poem and turn into a book. Like, anything is possible. Right? I mean, that’s a big deal. That’s a Speaker Kristen Holmes: really big deal. Yeah. It it was it was really a really sweet moment. I yeah. And I and I don’t know. I never really asked her, like, kind of why she said that. But I I think she was just you know, I I I feel like it resonated with her and and I think she was like, yeah, other other girls could really benefit from this message. But, yeah, it was it’s it’s neat that she kind of, like, put an action to it, you know? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s kinda Awesome. Awesome. I got a thousand more questions that I could ask, but I know you’ve you’re a busy person. So let’s, do one more question here. I got your Instagram up. I’m gonna have you we we call this the Instagram So you’re gonna pick a number between one and ten. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Okay. Seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: K. Six oops. K. Now between one and Speaker Kristen Holmes: three. Two. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright. Number two is, right here. If you remember this legacy expeditions says, this is legacy expeditions team consisting mainly of former US special operation services members will attempt to skydive into all seven continents in seven days. We’ll try to raise seven million dollars, folds of honor. So talk to us about the importance of that post, and, and talk about that. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. So legacy expeditions is just this incredible, I suppose this company, owned by, former special operators, and the the whole goal is to kind of create these expeditions where they can, you know, shine a light on, in this case, folds are armor. You know, kind of create these really grueling expeditions that kind of give those former special operators, you know, a sense of purpose, admission. So kind of doing hard things is kind of what they are are kind of trained to do. And when they separate from, from, you know, their, you know, whatever Arm force they were kind of serving, sometimes that could be really hard. So there’s kind of a component of, you know, kinda doing something hard with a team So there’s there’s that fulfillment. And then, and then secondly, you know, because it’s like a grueling mission, it gets lots of press and, they’re able to leverage that press to raise money for, in this case, Volkswagen Barnner, which is, incredible organization that raises, money, gives money to, families who, have had a, a, it’s they’ve now extended to tactical athletes too. So firefighter police women, men, you know, armed armed forces. So if they had a, you know, a death, of of a parent that child can, be the benefit of of the educational of Speaker Brett Gilliland: the master. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. So I did for this team, I did, I did the physiology. So I kind of helped them understand, you know, how to prepare for this mission, just using the data. And then, we did a whole analysis of the data over the course of their mission to kind of just see happening physiologically in terms of strain and recovery and sleep. So it was, yeah, seven seven days, seven continents, seven jumps. So it’s it’s pretty amazing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, I lied, and so I got one more question. You can see it here in my microphone, f greater than p. Your future is greater than your pass. That’s our mission statement, our firm. So when you hear that, I’m helping people achieve a future greater than their past. I believe that’s exactly what Woop is doing. It’s exactly what you were doing. So what comes to mind when you hear that? Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I mean, I I guess I go back to, like, one of the reasons why I joined Loop is I wanted to impact health at scale. And and I think a lot of what we actually what I do today, the choices I make today are going to position me and my future self either in a positive way or or a negative way. And and I think just the relationship between, you know, it’s like, what happened yesterday doesn’t, you know, It’s just there’s not a whole lot of need about it, but but be it but today, I have a ton of control, over the things that I I do, and I understand that that’s, you know, there’s a lot of privilege that comes with that. But I I think I’ve organized my life, and I’ve worked hard, and I’ve basically kind of created a scenario where I have a lot of choice and what I do, and, and how I live, and how I treat other people. And, I can make, you know, choices that are going to help my future self or or not. And, and I I so I suppose that’s kind of what I think about when. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. Speaker Kristen Holmes: Yeah. I love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, Kristen, thanks so much for being on the circuit of success. I mean, amazing takeaways for me today. I took a couple pages of notes, and, hopefully, people run out and get a whoop, and they’ll understand that. I get paid nothing for that. I just I think it’s an amazing thing to do, and, it’s it’s just it’s really helped change my life and make my choices, to be better every single day. What you want. Speaker Kristen Holmes: I love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, so much for being with us.

On this episode of Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews professional Saint Louis City soccer player Josh Yaro. Josh talks about his journey from Ghana to the US, the importance of finding the right position, and taking criticism. He also emphasizes the need to care for one’s body and the importance of analytics and data in sports. Josh Yaro   Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland, and I’ve got the privilege to interview Josh Yaro. Josh, how you doing, man? Speaker Josh Yaro: I’m good. How you doing? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m great. You Yaro. We’ve interviewed cardinal players. We’ve interviewed, you know, Blues people. We’ve interviewed all sorts of athletes and business leaders, but you’re the first professional Saint Louis City soccer player that I’ve got to interview. So It’s a big deal. It’s awesome. And you guys are having a great year. Speaker Josh Yaro: Wow. Yeah. Thank you. Well, that’s an almost out of hands for having me on the show. Yeah, it’s been a good year. It’s been a good year. I think, you know, started the season all through the world and we can maintain that, with excited to see how the nuances in, you know, goes for us and, you know, make the playoffs and and make a run for, you know, for a title title. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s right. That’d be awesome, man. So maybe for our listeners that don’t know who you are. If you could, give us a little background. What’s made you the man you are today? I know you grew up in Ghana. Came here to college and then went to Georgetown and and had a great college career and and, but if you could give us a little background on who you are today. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I grew up in Ghana. I actually went to and I don’t think a lot of people know I actually went to high school in six states. So working Ghana came, to the States, when I was fifteen. So came to high school as private boarding school in in Santa Barbara, California. So, came as a sophomore, did that for three Yaro, ended up for Georgetown, played a job down for three seasons. So I was I was I was there for two and a half years. And then in twenty sixteen, I got drafted, to Philadelphia Union. So And I’ve been playing since then. So that’s, like, the the shortage, you know, who I am and my and, you know, my time Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what was it like growing up in Ghana? And and when did you, get introduced to the game of soccer? Know that that’s what you were gonna do for a living, hopefully. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I mean, it was it was awesome. It was great. Obviously, growing up around family, in a place that I’m really familiar with. Life was good. Life was great. Right? And, I mean, everyone that goes up and gone every kid plays the same sport, which is awkward. It, for me, it was really strange when I came to the US, you know, in high school, when kids were playing three different sports a year. That’s something I wasn’t used to. It’s because I put your group on Gana. You play only once for year round and that sucks. That’s what there is. I started cleaning up when I was about four years. Yes. And then later on, I joined an organized team. And then, run around when I was eleven, I joined an academy team, called the registry academy, and that’s that’s where, after doing that kind of because to be able to get into that kind of it’s really difficult. I mean, you have to try out as thousands of kids and and on the as well as possible. So at that point, you know, that I had what it took to become a professional. I, you know, I just worked my way out. But then again, it’s it’s difficult. You know, because every kid in Granite, Speaker 3: I think, I was fortunate to be fortunate actually. Speaker Josh Yaro: And so the competition is high, but Speaker 3: I think I was fortunate that I found myself involved in, Speaker Josh Yaro: you know, with my academy and the teammates around me and the development that Speaker 3: I’d, you know, contribute contributor. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. What what we were just talking about this today at lunch. Some guys, we went to a group of us went to lunch and We’re talking about what what point does somebody say, yeah, I’m a defensive player. I’m an offensive player. Right? What do you remember that time frame where he said, okay. You’re gonna be a center back and, you’re gonna play defense. You’re not gonna go to school goals and do all those things? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I do because the first position I have picked is what I play now and I played in the whole life. So, a lot of kids usually, I mean, when you’re growing up, a lot of kids usually just play wherever I didn’t kind of fear that I was, like, I picked one of the stuff with it. So, so, let it stay in position my whole life, which which is crazy. But yeah, I’ve enjoyed it. And I think I know a lot of plans there. You know, used to be sent on me. It’s on my announcement box, so it used to be strike us, and I’m not paying a centimeter or extend this, and it’s they’re all over the place. But, you know, from day one, I just purchased this is the position I want, and I stuck with it, and I stuck with Speaker 3: my whole lot. Hold on. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So happy you did. And would you recommend that for players now? Or do you think it’s good to bound bounce around? Because in before I Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I I think it’s good to bounce around because Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker 3: Okay. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Josh Yaro: and it’s you get experience in different positions. You Gilliland different positions. It’s every position is unique and has a different skill set. So, yeah, just trying different things because they also help, you know, figure out, okay, which 1AM I looking at? What are my strengths and Speaker 3: what is the best position. Speaker Josh Yaro: So, yeah, definitely, I definitely have been college kids that I’ve grown up to try different positions. I did I actually did the try, you know, a few out of positions and I was growing up. Play that a few times. I I think, geez, that’s amazing. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, that center back’s a big job, man because, you know, you’re the last line. You’re the last line of defense here before you leave the goalie on his own, don’t you? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. No. I mean, again, a lot of people look at it, like, you don’t run as much as maybe, you know, you have midfielders Speaker 3: or the guys in front of Speaker Josh Yaro: you, but it’s it’s tough because I the example I always give is that If you are a striker and you lose the ball, you have your midfielders, you have your defenders, and you have your keeper to make play, you know, so that that doesn’t resolve me. So if you’re a midfielder, you have your defender, you have your goal to make a play. If you are a center back, and make a mistake. Well, your only hope is the goalie, you know. Yeah. Like, the the further back you go, it becomes a lot more risky. I sent him some goalies. Go, we make some mistake. I think nobody, you know, nobody gets covered. It’s a tough position in that sense. Mentally, you just you know, when you make a mistake, you have to move on. And it’s, it’s a really tough position. But at the same time, I think I was never joked out, some of the smartest players, you know, I don’t I don’t know. I don’t think so. Speaker 3: That’s really what I think because we basically talked to such as you just can’t see. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, you you were saying about telling kids. And what advice would you have for those kids? You know, I think about I’ve got four boys and they all play soccer and soccer season’s going on right now. And so What advice would you have for kids now to one get, you know, continue to get better, but also to challenge themselves and some daily habits they need to be focusing on? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I think a lot of it, it’s just, developing at your own pace, because it’s just like it’s in life, you know, you look at people that you start with, might be on the same team. You might be the same age group, and everyone’s development is different. You know, some people, it’s an upward development, and it should just keep going up. Addresses, you know, taking two steps, and then they want to get back and back. And that’s okay. Just don’t look at other people’s development and get discouraged by that. As long as you show up every day, you listen to your coaches, you take criticism Gilliland you put in the work, because I think Sometimes people think it’s easy, you know, just walk walk on the field and things are gonna happen. It it takes a lot of hard work, a lot of dedication. And as long as you, you know, you have the work ethic because everything else, you know, will come. If if you are educated enough, if you have the work ethic, Yeah. You might not be good at something, but if you work at it diligently, you’re, you’re, you’re going to become better at it, and just being honest with yourself as well. You know, because you have to at some point, realize, well, let’s go set up what, what you’re looking at, not saying is limit yourself. So but working forward with your strengths, and things that are weakness, or it’s seen as a weakness, work on that to help it become a strength. It might not be your strength at least. You know, you you work on it to make it better for yourself. And the important thing especially for kids is just enjoy it. Because I don’t really want to enjoy and join. And even at this level, I know it’s it’s it’s it’s my job, you know, to go on the end of end, you know, game to do all that, but If you’re not enjoying it, I mean, it’s miserable. It’s — Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Josh Yaro: and it becomes really, okay, I I have to go straightening off. Yes, I’m not again. But if you can work up every day and enjoy it, have a smile on the first face while using it, what Speaker 3: makes makes each difference. Speaker Josh Yaro: So for case, I always don’t keep just enjoy it. Enjoy, enjoy the process, enjoy the learning process, enjoy the hard work, and work as a half science, and, you know, just figure out insights and stuff, figure out Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love you. So then enjoy the hard work, enjoy the process. Right? And enjoy even sometimes we nobody wants to mess up, but I think we put so much pressure on ourselves. Don’t we that I mess up and I think it’s gonna be perfect or I gotta go do this many goals or this many saves, whatever it may be. Just and try to enjoy that process like you’re saying. It’s huge. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. Because I mean, the, the only way you really learn is, is, is making mistakes. You know, it’s, it’s, and it’s just I can like, you know, all that you get and learn things that, maybe when you were twenty, you didn’t know. But I did even know those things because the council of experience. And the only way good experience is by making mistakes, I think. We often see mistakes as these horrible things. And they are bad. I mean, I don’t wanna make a mistake in the game because then there are leads to using or something like that. But at the end of the day, yeah, mistakes are gonna happen. It’s just how you how you react to it and how, you know, the direction after that, how you can advance on the instincts or is it on the machines if you’re able to learn from your mistakes and move on, now you, but now you, you know, you have something that you didn’t So Speaker Brett Gilliland: what do you do outside of practice? You know, now, but also even as a kid and whether you’re high school or college. I mean, obviously, the coaches say, be here from this time to this time, but There’s there’s more than just that. Right? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I mean, there’s more. I mean, even now when you look at it, it’s the time that I spend at work. It’s all processing. It’s it’s you know, it’s just a fraction of my time. Yeah. Yeah, and I think as athletes, we’re much more than, you know, what you see out there just on the field. It’s it’s everyone. It’s easy, your own ways. And I I tend to, you know, when you know, And it’s changed various parts of my life. I was in high school and college. It was different. And when I started playing, because I was doing college, so I go to art centers, because later in the day, now I’m done with college. So most of the time, I come home, realize for a bit, watch TV, sometimes sometimes do some wipes in my foundation dish, which I would have put back in. But most of the time, it’s just relaxing I’m taking care of my body. Because you quickly realize that your body is video body to work. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what do you what do you do from a, from a recovery standpoint? How do you how do you spend those times? Speaker Josh Yaro: So recovery. I mean, we have the ones in the the I’m fortunate and everyone in the team is really fortunate to have. It’s the amount of, you know, health, health, that we have, you know, outside of the field. We have trainers. We have, you know, chiropractic, we have doctors. We have every, you know, every possible possibly thinking, you know, for recovery. So, you know, we have our ice baths. We have, you know, prior therapy. We have massage therapist. We have some higher practice. It’s a lot of things that you can to to make sure that your body is taken care of. So, it’s been great that way. I do most of my staff, usually, you know, I had to train personally. Because I I have that itemized score score. Right. Yeah. But again, it’s crazy how much score science plays it’s easy. And do what we do. Because you look, you look back even like 10:15, twenty years ago, athletes didn’t have what we have, in terms Right. And now everything’s it’s down to assigning sciences, which is good because that means you can play for much longer than longer than you used to, your body must your body’s stronger and, recovers a lot quicker because they are the time to us to help you help Speaker Brett Gilliland: I think Tom Brady helped that. Right? Whether people like him or don’t like him. I mean, it’s, you know, you you see the the massage, the stretching, the the the whatever he calls it, his movement type stuff versus just, you know, going in and throwing weights around a weight room. That’s important, but there’s also all the other stuff that goes along with it. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, like, he’s he’s a part of the song. You know, when you look at someone, like, even if he’siano Ronaldo and that’s, and he’s study hate now and still perform, you know, and and I think a last part of it, it’s just just, you know, you know, has to do with full size. You know, your your body, the way you’re covered, the way you sleep, like everything is monitored now, and you can actually have a lot of information about how your body and how your body’s working and responding and all that stuff. And that’s that’s the main thing, you know, to me. And we are fortunate here, you know, a city that we have a lot of, knowledgeable people that help us with that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Big investment. Cold plunge never gets easier. Does it. It’s terrible. Speaker Josh Yaro: Again, I see all these videos of people that can go into cold plunge’s Gilliland I’m talking, like, extremely cold plunge — Right. For a long time number. That’s not it. I mean, they have, like, I mean, they have, like, eight to twelve minutes that I’m, I’m out. That’s So Speaker Brett Gilliland: you still go eight to twelve minutes in a cold plunge at what temperature? Speaker Josh Yaro: I mean, usually, it’s not I I have to look at what they said. I was supposed to go. I mean, anyway, Fifty, maybe. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Fifty. It’s cold. And it’s cold. I do them here and there, and it’s just brittle. It never gets easier. But, man, you’d feel like a million bucks when you get out of that thing. Don’t you? Speaker Josh Yaro: That’s how it does have in your body. Yeah. The second you get out, you can feel the difference between one and one. Got out. Like, it’s amazing and and for us, like, sometimes when you especially after games, when you play games, you don’t really realize I have to use it. So anything like that. And then two days, when you go into an ice bath, for instance, like, all those noises that you didn’t realize you had, taking care of it. When you have a glue to ice it, And so it has helped a lot, you know, in all the voice invoicing. I think the times behind the scenes, it’s pretty good. How Speaker Brett Gilliland: about saunas? You believe in saunas? Speaker Josh Yaro: Not a big fan. We we have the lot of other facility, but I might have. I’ve never really been into Speaker Brett Gilliland: Like, it’s too damn hot. Speaker Josh Yaro: I mean, I would do, like, the the cool tablet, prior to Timber, which pretty much keeps you just saying that it sets going into an icebox. Yeah. But but yeah. Big on songs. Yeah. Alright. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like them. I like it. I like going in them, but they’re, I like that over the cold, but Speaker Josh Yaro: I know the cold I can do it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I, you know, four, five, six minutes. But, so let’s turn to page a little bit. Obviously, big news in MLS this year with Messi joining. I’m sure you’re tired to talk about that or somebody asking about it. But when you hear that news, man, what’s that like as an MLS player that hears one of the greatest players if not the greatest player in the history of soccer is coming to play with y’all. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I mean, obviously, like, people talk about it a lot and rightfully so because it’s, it’s a big it’s a big moment in my history of the drink and mean, it just goes to show show you how the steps of the league has taken and how far the league has passed. You know, when the league started, Again, I don’t think anyone if I thought we get, you know, get to this point. And it’s it’s come so far. And could you see everyone that was, you know, involved in making that happen, because us, you know, he had another option. I was like, because I’ve taken his safety, but, to make MLS appealing. He just had one like him. It’s it’s it’s an unbelievable machine machine. So — Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Josh Yaro: it’s great to have someone design the leak because he keeps the leak, he keeps the leak exposure. And you’ve seen, you know, even with his team, his former team is joining him and everyone is turning their attention Speaker 3: to nonetheless now because, yeah, you know, have someone like in their belief. So Speaker Josh Yaro: I think it’s great for the league. It’s great for us. Because again, it’s, again, I grew up watching English, you know, before we came to a floor and growing. Get into chance to use, to share a feel with some of my students. It’s amazing. Well, the same thing when I joined the league, you know, the guys like Steven Jarrod, Carlo, and guys that I grew up watching that when hiring, you know, all of a sudden, laying on the same field. I know that. It’s it’s an unbelievable, moment. So, yeah, I mean, it’s exciting. I don’t think city will get to play in Miami. The chances of assisting each other, again, yes, this line is as weird as we’re able to hit them. But, but, Speaker Brett Gilliland: yeah. Speaker Josh Yaro: Again, for the rest of the week, I think it’s it’s great. It’s great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Wouldn’t be a bad deal though? Wouldn’t it be, doing a little slide tackle maybe stealing the ball from Messi and going down, making something happen? Speaker Josh Yaro: Well, that’d be nice. That’d be nice. Again, it’s just, you know, it’s just a surreal moment for for the league and for everyone. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Very cool. So who is the person that you grew up watching? Like, who’s the guy that you said, man, I I wanna kinda, you know, play like that guy. Obviously, be your own guy, but but that’s the person you idolized growing up? Speaker Josh Yaro: His name is Rio Pregnant and he cut in punches to another. He cut in government, and grew up actually on my remember going to make this guy. It’s really good. And I was actually fortunate that I got to meet him in two thousand and nine, when I was in Manchester, it was one of those things that it was a really cool moment. Just Yeah. I agree with watching you on admiring and all of a sudden it’s like face to face and it’s what a moment. But, yeah, he’s a guy that, I looked up to a lot. Really good player, the way that he plays and really cleaning anything. I tried to click, pick on some of, you know, the things that he does. I haven’t really found anyone that I like as much since he retired, but he he always be the guy who came up. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I, I was listening to you on another, oh, there’s a podcast of where I heard you, but you talked about your passion for, you know, wanting to be more than a soccer player. You wanna be involved in this community. And and so talk to us about why that’s so important to you because I think it’s amazing because you could just go cash a check, play some soccer, have some fun, and not necessarily have to give back. But here you are doing things like this, and you wanna be involved in the Saint Louis community. Talk to us about that. Speaker Josh Yaro: I’ve tried. I mean, since I got here last year, I’ve tried to, you know, be in the community. I’ve done it a few times in a few different ways. I think as athletes, we really fortunate that we get to live the life that we have. And you can completely know that we have a lot of support in these cities and for me, it’s a lot of dedication from the fans and for everything that they do for us. So Again, I want to be part of the community and not just, oh, I’m here for some of this. Like, but, yeah, that’s that’s that’s why I came here, but wanna be part of the community. I want I want to learn about this city. I want to know what’s going on. I want to involve, just a way to say things into the city. And depends, they give us so much every day. And I really do appreciate everything they do for us. So for me, that’s just my way of saying is, you know, thank you for allowing a city here. Thank you for the support. And and all the amazing things that, the city and the, and these fans as you promised for us. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, I know I I can speak for a lot of leaders in Saint Louis and just anybody in Saint Louis, but that, you know, it’s great to hear that, man. When a guy is in our community and new to our community and and once give back. So my philosophy in life is if you take a living from a community, you gotta give back to the community. And so it was great to hear that you were in line with that. And, that’s why it’s one of the reasons I was excited to chat with you. So let’s talk about a little bit about mindset perseverance, I looked at, you know, the games and studying you, you know, didn’t probably start out playing as much as you wanted to. Right? But you you had a great attitude. You kept putting in work. And now it seems like what? Last five of last seven games, something like that. You’ve started. You’re playing, you know, it’s like What was your attitude like? What was the culture like? When you mean nothing more as an athlete you wanna do than be out there? But how did you stay committed to what you were doing? And now, playing as much as your plant. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I mean, a lot of it, like I said, experience, and and I’ve been playing for a few years now. And you go through those moments, you know, it’s time to realize, you know, twenty eight, thirty guys, you know, all eleven guys can get out, you know, at the time. And in life, you’re gonna get opportunities. It’s it’s a matter of Yaro you prepared? Are you ready for the account? And for me, I think most of the time when when players are in position when they’re not turning, the mindset is, well, why should I train harder? Because know I’m not going to play, but that’s that’s that’s a lot because at some point it’s a long season and it’s it’s it’s it’s not gonna get called, you know, and And I think you’re not doing yourself any favors. If you’re not working hard in training, if you’re not putting the work, and if you’re not having a good you have to be a good teammate regardless of your situation. And for me, that was the thousand big piece, you know. Yeah. And everyone on the team plays a path because even if I’m training well. Well, that’s pushing the status and that’s making sense together every day training. So I’m contributing in that way even if I’m not playing, and That’s maybe that’s my role. And that’s so when I wasn’t playing, that was that was kind of my mindset. I’m gonna work hard. I’m gonna push the guys in front of me. And when I get the I’m gonna take them to take it Gilliland that’s what I did. So it’s tough to do that at the moment, because it hasn’t been easy. You know, there’s times going on. I have my moments, but, but, most of the time, though, I kind of switch my mindset to be in a place where I could, support my teammates regardless and work hard and make sure that I was really, I was prepared for when I joined the game. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And so talk more about that. I mean, I I call it your roommate. Like, everybody’s got a roommate and that roommate’s the the guy up here talking to us in our head. Right? And What did you do to silence that roommate and and make him be more positive when you could’ve gone the other route and been negative with it? Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. Again, a lot of it, I think it’s it wasn’t easy in in any way, but a lot of it it can a little bit easier. I should say, because the experiences I’ve had playing. I’ve been a stewardess like that before, and I’ve seen the turnaround. And because nothing is really pendant. Like, the way that teams start in the beginning of the season is not how they’re gonna end. You know, there’s always a lot of changes in the line there’s always some of the games, the entries, the people who hang up the phone, and it’s it’s a lot of Gilliland so for me, it was it was a matter of, yeah, you know, you might have doubt that you never played, but there is a chance that you lose your mind. And, and for me, that that chance we got us a house small, it was. It’s what kept on going. And and also knowing that, yeah, I’ve seen this situation before and I’ve been in it before, and I turned it around. Done it before and I can do it again. And so, again, when I say experience, it’s it’s great. That’s that’s one of the instances where I think my experience or playing professionally for a few years now, hitting it. And so, yeah, you have your moments where, you know, like, you said, the guy up 06:20 not worth it, like, why you run an extra while you’re doing this, why you’re doing that, you’re not going to play, but you have to keep pushing yourself, you know, I know for a fact that everyone gets their chance, everyone gets their moment. And guys that get really disappointed are those that they get finally get the chance, I’m not even taking a ticket well, because they weren’t so great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Love it. I love that mindset, man. That’s so many so much to learn. You can just do a podcast just on that question right there. So daily habits. So something I would see. If I followed you around for the next week, what am I seeing no mis items for you day in and day out? Speaker Josh Yaro: Well, then, I mean, change my life. It’s really simple. I wake up. I get ready. I go to work. I come back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How long are you working? Like, when you say work, how long are you doing that? Speaker Josh Yaro: I mean, so I have to report all it, to the facility around 09:30 every morning, but I usually get there around 08:45 to nine. And and then I’m usually there till about 2PM PM. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Josh Yaro: And so, yeah, just just that. And then, I mean, a big problem with it because you realize that your body is what you work with. And so in any way to kind of take care of that all, you know, make sure that it’s in the best possible condition. You know, it’s it’s it’s you do that to optimize your chances of being able to perform the next days. And I try, I mean, I’ve I don’t drink alcohol. I don’t drink coffee. I feel, you know, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Just anything to give me kind of like the the the edge, you know, because your body has to recover and it has to be able to be able to perform at a higher level than day. So my day’s afternoon. Not not much clothes on it. You know, I maybe in the evenings, I go on a walk with. With my girlfriend and, you know, just uneven escrow and, yeah, to close for the day. But most of the time, just, you know, Speaker Brett Gilliland: Just chilling. Taking care of your body, man, because that’s that’s the, that’s the asset. That’s the asset. So when you see or hear the words, achieving a future greater than your past, what would come to mind for you? Speaker Josh Yaro: I mean, that’s that. Because, again, as athlete, I think as an athlete, I think you’re always kind of in that mindset. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Josh Yaro: Because you have to always consistently push yourself to perform, and you have to always perform better than the previous because it’s encompasses our competitive sports. And and your best yesterday, you know, might not be good enough for the next day because everyone else is pushing themselves in different ways. And so, for me, just just You know, like I said, continue getting game minutes, and, I’ve just been better than what’s the biggest game, you know, in a lot way to anything. And and that’s that’s measured in a different way because, you know, like everything, like I said, with four times, everything that we do is monitor. So, like, how hard I’m working, how hard I’m running all that from the previous day I have. So if I wanna be better, I think, well, maybe I gotta beat those numbers the next day. Maybe the game, maybe the game that I had last week or this week, what can I do better, to even make it a better game than last week and then just keep building on that? So yeah, it’s in the contact condition with myself. I guess that’s how I see it. Because once you start, compete against someone else, you kind of on the side of cellular, because you have to realize that everyone is weak and everyone is built differently. Because if you look at, again, for example, all the sunavirus that we have not roster. Everyone’s different. Everyone’s getting style is different and everyone has unique styles and everything. And so once you start comparing yourself to someone else, if you’ve lost a blah, like, it’s when it was, say, you are your own competition, that’s that’s true. I found that to be true a lot. Because if you can compete against yourself and you can be better, then you want a previous day, then I think you’ve learned a lot And, yeah, another day, if your best is not good enough, but you’re still achieving at your best best. I think, you know, you’re doing your right. Right? Yeah. You’re doing your right. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s all. So when you when you play a game, did are you wearing those vest and they’ll tell you game or practice and it you know, exactly how fast you got from point a to point b and how much running you did. And so so talk to us about that. After a game or practice, what do you personally do or what what is kind of the team do to that those analytics. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. So, I mean, we have people that are in charge of that. And every session, there’s a number that you have to hit. So I think everyone on our team pretty much is done every day. And then that’s just the way that our team is built. It’s really hardworking themselves. No issues with that. You can have your data. Like, after every game, they send us all the data in the day, how fast you’re running, how far you run, like, how have you easily read? I’m telling you every possible information that you could get. It’s it’s it’s provided to me. So you can look at it. You can compare that to the, you know, the previous week’s, game, and and every game is different as well, because some games maybe you might be chasing the game, and so it’s a lot more rotten for you or some game you in control, so you’re not running as much as possible. Yeah. So it’s it’s you you have to analyze the data based on based on on game places, you know, I know. And even in practice, each day is different because the process that you get to gamebed, you know, not not the load that you’re doing in training is a little bit, lower because you’re getting pretty again while in the beginning of the week, it’s harder now. It’s, it’s, it’s a little further from the game. So, You take everything in in in context to you as to what’s going on, but you have all this information, like, every information that you need. It’s it’s on there. And if you don’t understand it, then someone just explain it to you and to help you and figure it out. So, yeah. I mean, I think that’s that’s that’s been things as well. So, this kind of, it’s not in the numbers. And then you see where you work, where you should be, and what you’re doing, and Speaker 3: it does good enough or bad. Adjust them. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s what I love about sports, man, is if you could apply that to the business world, the more analytics we have, the more data we have, the better you can be for clients, your community, whatever it is. Right? And it’s like that’s what I love about it is your guys’ discipline to that stuff is to actually take the data Get better. If we could do that at work, take the data, practice it, get better. Get a game plan, have some clarity around it, gonna get to the next level. So last question for you here, Josh. What’s it been like, man? Plain in Saint Louis, the inaugural season, the fans, the the atmosphere, just the noise? What’s it been like in Saint Louis for you? Speaker Josh Yaro: Man, it’s been really nice. Because I remember last year when I got here, started with City tune. The first game last year, we played us in this, and I remember just to hopefully sell them out. Ask man, this is a nice to when we had our Facebook system and then fans showed up to the game. I’m, I mean, with drums and I was like, okay, we’re going to go online and I’m going, man, just pre season game. And before I end with, like, I just wait till the season starts, and I saw that during the season. And so bringing back to this year, more in the figures to the year. My god. It’s been, when you talk to, you know, opponents when they’re saying that, again, it’s really tough to listen to us. I think part of it is also what I’ve created, created, and it’s unbelievable. It’s it’s — Yeah. — it’s it’s been been it’s been great. And, And when you have a fan base, that’s really dedicated, like, you do, and a fan base that care, it might help to be withdrawn. It’s nothing done with today’s a lot every every day we go out there to to perform, you know, as a way to say it again, thank you and and to reward the fans for, you know, for for for for them, for coming to the to come into the game and for us, for the hard work. So it’s been amazing so far. And again, can think different to that for what environment that they’ve created for us for us. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s been awesome, man. Caitlyn Kendall, I know in in the Taylor family and all the ownership group, they’ve done a phenomenal job with the stadium, just the the energy down there. It’s just it’s been phenomenal, man. It’s been it’s a little bit drive around town. Speaker Josh Yaro: Yeah. I did build something really Gilliland I think that’s because most ownership groups are really hands off. And I think, I mean, we see them side of their their their their their and they wanted to win this, you know, for the community as well. So that’s absolutely amazing. And you can see in the way that they they relate to the city and they relate to the team and everything that they do and you, and, I mean, the facilities and everything. And they’re interested in to build their own economics. Speaker Brett Gilliland: First class. Well, Josh, it’s been awesome having you, man. Finish strong this season. Keep playing well. I know my boys continue rooting for you and the team and and my wife and I and and behalf of the city man. Thanks for what you guys are doing. It’s been awesome, and thanks for being on the circuit of success.

On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Ariana Jahja about her journey and the things she has learned from business leaders. Ariana shares her story of moving from Bosnia to Germany and then to the United States, and how this experience made her question the world and its people. She emphasizes the importance of asking great questions and listening to people to help them feel seen and heard, as well as the importance of energy management and understanding one’s physiological state. Lastly, she talks about the concept of flow states and how to achieve them, as well as the importance of recovery and the MacGyver Method. Tune in to learn more about how to become a better version of yourself! https://youtu.be/LtFPp0kWvzY Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success Podcast. Welcome on back. Your Speaker Ariana Jahja: host, Greg. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circive Success. I am Brett Gilland in Gilliland. I’ve got Ariana Jahja. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. You got it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You say that right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. But Speaker Brett Gilliland: the name like Gilliland, you know, I was, struggle with last name. She gotta be you gotta be careful. So Warian, it’s awesome to have you. Been looking forward to it. And, we’re gonna have a great conversation today. But like I start out all conversations with on the circuit of success is what’s made you the woman you are today. I know you’ve got a great backstory of, on on who you are, but if you could, share that with our listeners, get to know you a little bit. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Absolutely. That’s a loaded question, but an exciting question because, I see that, you have your, journalist as future past, and I feel that what’s made me the woman I am today is my adversity that I’ve been through when I was a child. So moving from Bosnia to Germany, to then here, was tough. It was tough. I was I was little, and I went through a lot of, you know, who am I? Do I fit fit in here? Do I fit in here? You know, what who do I wanna be? What does it mean that my country had genocide? Right? Like, I’m going deep already, but it’s, you know, there was a lot of existential things that I went when I was a child. And you Speaker Brett Gilliland: were, like, six. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: When I was six, that really made me question everything. And I I don’t say that lightly. It just really made me question why do people do the things that they do? And, you know, why is there evil? Because I witnessed it when I was really little. So what made me me is really just having this mindset of, like, I know people can be good because my parents are really good people, but at the same time, there are bad people in this world. And so how do I study this? Speaker Brett Gilliland: How Speaker Ariana Jahja: do I study the mind? How do I study mindset the p, you know, humans so that I can then do something with that later on? Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you you thought that early on. And even at 06:10, twelve year old girl, Speaker Ariana Jahja: here you Speaker Brett Gilliland: are going through basically hell. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And and you’re thinking I’m gonna study the mind and figure this out and help people. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. I just needed answers. Like, it was it was really confusing as a little child to be watching this disaster. You know, just like now, we’re watching in the in the Ukraine and all over the world. And but as a child, you are really connected to something else. And it makes you angry. It makes you fearful. And so I’ve always just thought, I’m going to figure out how to be. How do I wanna be? How do I wanna Gilliland how can I make a difference? Like, as a child, you feel kind of hopeless, but that fuels you later on. And I think that’s kind of why I’m here. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. That’s amazing. So talk about your journey. So you obviously then came in the United States and, you know, went to school and did all those things. And and decided to to take this to a next, the next step. At glow now. You work at glow with Whitney. And, Whitney’s awesome. She’s been on the podcast before. And so talk to us about that. Like, what made you take that next step and and to do what you’re doing now? And for those people that watch billions, I always joke with, Wittany. You probably know where I was going. Yeah. Yeah. What’s her name, Wendy? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Wendy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Wendy. Wendy. I can’t remember Wendy’s last name on Gilliland, but, yeah, you’re like Wendy. Right? You’re like a wendy. You go into businesses. You work with leaders. You work with the companies, and you help them get to that next level. And so That’s right. Gonna dive into that today for those people listening on on really the things that we do. And I know controlling energy is a big one for you, getting in the flow state all those things. But but talk to us right now what you’re what you’re learning from business leaders out in this world that are doing amazing things. What what’s maybe something common theme that you’re seeing out there today? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So just kinda go back to the the journey of going from studying psychology and being sort of in this HR world, if you will, from my early career on, to meeting Celeste and Whitney. Ironically, I have my own podcast, and I got connected with them, and they invited me to or I invited them to be on my podcast. I mean, you talked. And during that conversation, had this big spark, talk about energy, which was like, We are both wanting to support people in getting to their fullest potential. They are doing it with businesses, and I was doing it with the people. Yep. And we both talked about energy. Right? The e in glow stands for energy, and I am a firm believer and I had just gotten out of this training with, the flow research collective, which, the leader is Steven Cottler, and Steven T Cottler talks a lot about flow states. And so I had just gotten out of this cool training with him, with his team. I met Whitney and Celeste, and it was just like this, like, movie moment, but we were like, you know what? Let’s do this together. Because we we all know that organizations are made out of humans, and the humans that are leading it, the the leaders to see suite There’s a lot going on there, the gatekeepers. Right? And how can we support the gatekeepers to be at their best at their fullest potential so that it can trickle down into the organization. And that’s sort of how the Gilliland Ariana journey started. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So I I think that’s, I I connect with that anytime, but it’s about humans. It’s about right. We talk about people or culture. And I interviewed the former president of Starbucks International one time on the podcast. And he said that, you know, Starbucks thing was we’re in the people business. And you you think of Starbucks, you think coffee. Right? They’re like, we’re in the people this. And then they just happen to like coffee. Right? That’s the common thing there. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Exactly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And so I think that’s huge. But again, what what are you seeing out there in the market place today, you know, coming out of COVID and the world’s opening back up, thank god, and all the things that that we’ve learned over these last, you know, three or four years. What are you seeing the most, that business leaders are struggling with right now? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. That’s a good question. There are several things, but I think one of the things is that we have a lot of ten leaders. We have a lot of people who are good at what they do. We have a lot of high performing leaders. Right? But What we don’t have is leaders that can a be trusted and leaders who have a regulated nervous system. And while they’re potentially, you know, creating the results that they need to be, They are showing up every day. They’re doing the work that they need to be doing. They’re miserable when they go home to their families. And they don’t have hobbies. They don’t necessarily know how to find hobbies. They’re confused. Right? There are levels where they have the money, but they don’t really know or have time to use that money. And so what I’m what I’m really finding is that supporting people in looking at what’s actually important to them, And then shedding has been a huge support for a lot of leaders. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Getting rid of things in your life is a is a big deal. We we do that here at visionary wealth advisors. I mean, we sit down with people every day and talk about their goals or dreams or aspirations. Yep. And that shedding is is good. Right? Because sometimes it may be people, if you gotta shed, it may be habits, it may be things that are going on in your life every day. And so so what what’s that process like? I know me, I always talk about ADT, ask, don’t tell. It’s asking great questions and letting them answer the question. Because then when they come up with that, it’s it’s their idea. Oh, that’s great. Yeah. Instead of giving it to them. So is that something that you are a big fan of? I mean, asking great questions. What’s that process? How are you business leaders all over the world. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Questions and listening is huge. I saw this, article the other day on one of the places I followed, it said coaches stop talking. It’s because as coaches, we we have to sit with the people so that they feel seen heard, because what I’m seeing a lot is leaders coming in, and they just want to be heard. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: They but not from a perspective of competency and executive brain and your planning, but you, who you are. Yeah. And as a leader, Right? And just to say the things that you can’t say to your leaders, because you’re always being watched. People are always watching you. And so There’s it gets confusing, right? It’s like you have these feelings Gilliland you have these emotions, but this is who you should be, and then you get lost somewhere in that process. And so as a sitting with them and listening and asking questions and reflecting back. What I’m hearing, because sometimes when we think it we just think it, and then we kinda let go of it. And I reflected back to them and they hear hear me say it. They have aha moments because they’re like, well, wait, actually. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Did I just say that? Speaker Ariana Jahja: I just say that or what do I do I really believe that? Yeah. It’s really challenging the way that they’re thinking. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Business partner Tim Hammond is really good at that. He’s he’s let me let me say back what I’ve just heard you say. Right? And that and he does that to people when you’re in a meeting and it’s you know, he’ll articulate the ten points you just talked about. And it’s like, wow. You know, that that makes people feel really good. So for those listening, I mean, I think you can do that in conversations, I’ve just I’ve seen it so many times. I’ve seen it thousands of times with people, the same back to them. What they’ve just said is a big connecting factor for them. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Oh, yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So you said just a little bit ago, you talked about regulated nervous system. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So let’s talk about that because I I’m a guy. I don’t know if you if this is what you mean or not, but I was a guy early on, and still to this day have it, but I’ve learned to deal with it, making an ally, is, the anxiety, the nerves. Is that kinda where you’re going with that, or you mean something completely different? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. So part of it is that, because actually anxiety and nerves, we can use that as fuel. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Right? So that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It becomes a bad thing when you are literally physically disregulated, meaning that your me in a state called fight or flight. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yes. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And so when we are in fight or flight, our heart is pumping. Right? Our pupils are dilating. Things are happening for us to be able to be in flow and drop into focus. Right? Now that’s good when we actually need to use it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Not good for us if we’re constantly thinking that there’s something wrong because that’s how we actually get sick. Like, that’s how we break down, that’s how we burn out. And so what I support people in doing is, you know, I’m I’m a really big fan of tracking define your data. So I have something called an or a ring. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And I track, you know, what’s what are my HRV levels, which means heart rate variability Gilliland that tells a story, right? And so it gives me information and gives my leaders information on what what do I need to be doing today differently? Right? If I’m overwhelmed, because my nervous system is jacked, I probably shouldn’t be packing my days back to back. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m I’m pulling this up because I couldn’t agree more. I have, I wear a woot bracelet. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Oh, sweet. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So it does the exact same thing, and I do my journal this morning. But but it it’s it’s cool because it does a, a stress, and it tells you where you’re at. So, like, right now, which I, I love this, because to what your point is, I go through it through a day, and I’ll find out where my highest peak moments were where I was most stressed. Then I’ll see what I was doing in that moment. But you know what’s crazy? If I’m sitting in a client meeting or I’m doing a like, right now I’m at point nine, which is really low stress. Right? And so I’m finding that when I am doing something, I love doing. So I think people gotta be clear what they love doing. And then put more of that on your calendar. Yeah. Right? I’m at a point nine right now because I love having these conversations with people. If I’m sitting down with a client, I’d be at a point nine as well because I love saying no Speaker Ariana Jahja: to the point. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So so talk more about that because I couldn’t agree more with you because that’s something that I monitor, you know, every single day. How do we help these people listening right now get to more of that low stress state Speaker Ariana Jahja: and Speaker Brett Gilliland: doing something that theoretically could be stressful. Right? Like, this could be stressful. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Well, the the way that I describe it is, and this is how it was kinda taught to me in my training through FRC was Imagine you’re a lion, lions, and the way we wanna operate is fifty percent of the time you wanna be like a lion sleeping. If you watch a lion, he’s sleeping, he’s resting, he’s not moving. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Fifteen hours a day or something. Right. Yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And then There’s prey or it’s some, you know, he needs food. He jumps thumbs up and works. Right? He gets that prey and it’s all it’s stress. It’s fight or flight. Right? And that’s how we Jahja look at our days is fifty, fifty, fifty percent of the time we’re recovering, fifty percent of the time we’re working hard. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Right? And so what I really want people to look at is, you know, even just open up your calendar today and look at how are you scheduling your meetings? So just recently, I made a client just literally pull up his, calendar, and he said to me, you know, how can I He he said, how can I continue after 4PM without this and this? And he, you know, it was water and coffee or water and coffee and, like, another caffeinated drink. And I just looked at him and I’m like, well, unless you want cocaine. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Right? There’s other ways to do this. Like, stop pushing, stop drugging yourself. Stop, right, because there are other natural ways, and that’s recovery. We have to have the grit to recover. This is something else that I teach is so many of us are so used to just going, going, going because it’s the old programming of the old way of doing is that we should fill up our calendars with all the things because that’s what is rewarded as competence. Right? And so a lot of people are robbing you. So if you today want to change, just look at even just leaving a little buffer between your me meetings. It doesn’t have to be an hour. It could be thirty minutes. And instead of having that extra cup of coffee or getting on your phone between meetings, take a nap. Fat your door if you’re in your office, it’s, you know, closing your eyes, and it’s called yoga, Nidra as well. Right? We don’t have to nap, but we need just Nidra. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Something that people can look up where you’re literally just turning off your brain, and I know you like meditation. Right? Meditating for five minutes. So it’s just really looking at your day differently and allowing yourself to recover. And I Speaker Brett Gilliland: think it’s hard, though. Right? I know for me when I was I got to the point. I got to the tipping point where you had a panic attack in a meeting, in a client meeting. And I didn’t know what was going on, you know, and and say, hell, I thought I was having a heart you know, and and this is gosh, this is probably ten and a half, eleven years ago now. And but I but I think it’s hard for us leaders. Don’t you think? Because, like, I was hard charging and I still am and go go go go go go. And if I’m sitting down in my office with a door shut and just kinda taking some deep breaths, for years. It it took me a long time to get through this because I’m like, oh, you’re being a failure. Don’t be weak. Right? You should be on the phone. You should be doing this. You should be doing that. And I think it takes a lot of time for us. And if that’s a guy thing, I think it’s probably men and women struggle with that. They’re hard charges. Right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. How how do you tell that person? Because I would just tell them that they gotta do it. They gotta take a couple years to get through that process. But I have found for me slowing down to speed up. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Mhmm. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I have to take time away. Vacation. Right? Just go back from a vacation. If it’s meditation, it’s buffer. I just did a video on social media that talked about. I used to be back to back to back to back appointments. I have found now that I need a buffer. I don’t like going back to back to back to back to back and just being crazy. Exactly. I like Speaker Ariana Jahja: that buffer. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So when you hear me say all that stuff, what are your thoughts? And how do we help people? Speaker Ariana Jahja: So, yeah, so just shifting the mindset from time management to energy management because we all naturally. So I wanna start off too with, you know, we’re animals first. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Ariana Jahja: We we have a biology that requires certain things that I don’t care how smart you are. Your body is gonna need certain things in order for you to be able to be successful long term. So I think the more people can learn about their own physiological states and how their nervous system operates, the easier it will be for them to comprehend why they need what they need. Right? So understanding a knowledge of self Meaning, yes, mindset is important. Trust me. I love mindset, but really knowing, you know, what is the nervous system? What is fight or flight? What is it feel like when my when I’m in fight fight or flight, and how can I am at how can I notice that I’m in that state? Right? And so that’s number one. Is really figuring out how does it work, knowledge in an an energy management because we all have different of energy levels. Like, you I love that you track yours on on your watch, by really recognizing, are you a morning person or are you a night person? Because there’s something called a chronotype, and this is something that we are born with. And so really figuring that, there’s a there’s a specific formula that I can maybe even sent to you that people can take a a quiz to figure out. Yeah. Am I a lark? Am I supposed to be up at four? And am I not am I not allowing myself to do that? Am I a night owl? And I’m forcing myself to be a morning person? Because that’s gonna matter. Right? When do you do your best work and then schedule everything around that? And that’s what I help people do. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s cool. I’m glad to hear you’re born with that. Because I have, you know, y’all these books with waking up at five in the morning and all these people that do all this stuff. And quite frankly, I hate it. I I can’t stand it. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Thank you. I’m I’m a lot to say about that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But I’ve but I’ve beat myself up over it for years. I did. Right? It was like, oh, and, you know, real winners get up at five in the morning or 04:52 or, you know, whatever the number is. Right? There’s random numbers, and it’s like, I can’t I don’t like it. I I try it. I’ll do it for a week and a half, and then I’m just pissed off and then I don’t do it anymore. Right? Yeah. My most creative thinking, my time in my journals, it the kids are in bed or whatever. Now it’s downtime. Like, that’s where I most creative at night. I have to make myself go to bed because that’s when I find my flow. So I’m glad to hear that. And so you said you had a lot more to talk about it. Let’s dig into that one. Speaker Ariana Jahja: So let let yeah. Let’s stay there for a second because, you know, the past, like, I remember about ten years ago or so when, like, IG was really Instagram was coming up and remember thinking, I just Jahja find someone that does it the right way, and I just wanna follow what they do because that’s that’s how it’s done. Right? And so I think ever since, there’s been some of this culture. It’s like, let me look up this influencer and see what they do because, you know, they’re successful, whatever successful means. Yeah. Right? And I’m gonna copy what they do, and it’s just awful because there is no one way. There is not even a one way right way for for us, for me and you specifically. Right? Let alone to follow someone else’s energy levels because we are all designed differently. We all have different backgrounds, different traumas, different risk versions, different neurobiologies. And so what has happened is people have really gotten disconnected from who they are. Biologically, but also who they are as a person, right, and they’re following these things that they think they should be doing, and they end up with more stuff on their Gilliland more unhappy. Yep. Because it’s not fulfilling them. So so morning routines, you know, make up your own, whatever feels right. And is waking up bad, early bad? No. Of course, you’re gonna get more done. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: But how are you going to feel at 3PM? Speaker Brett Gilliland: So let’s walk through that. So let let’s let’s assume that I don’t everything we just talked about, and I don’t know when I met my best. Okay. I’m I’m your like. Okay? And you’re gonna help me. You want me to take it to the next level. I wanna take it to the next level. What’s that process look like? So maybe somebody that doesn’t hire you or hire a coach, How are we walking them through where to find out how I can be at my best? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Well, it it will always start with kind of your your current state. So what I do in in VIP sessions with my clients is, you know, we get into a room for about four hours and what I would ask them is, you know, tell me everything that’s going on right now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You might keep interrupting my can. Yep. So, again, think about this for those listening. Four hours. Okay. Right? Four hours of time. Not like, oh, in twenty minutes, you’re gonna figure this out. Yeah. Right? Four hours, you’re gonna just be pelt me with questions. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So questions about well, actually, you know, many times I will go into the past. Because how we think about our past is past is how we define our future and what we do in the in the present. So a lot of times, I will listen to are there any contaminate contamination stories that are happening in their past? Okay. And then from that, we will then say, okay, what’s the current state what’s working, what’s not working. And then, okay, where do you Jahja go? What what is what is the future in an ideal world or you at your highest, and I have them answer those questions. And then as I’m listening, you know, taking notes and so forth, and then after the four hours, we then have a game plan on how to get to they’re trying to go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Got it. Yep. There there’s alignment there. Right? You mentioned earlier, you know, our mission at at vision areas to help people achieve a future greater than their past. And it doesn’t mean you had a bad past. It doesn’t mean there’s a contaminated story in everybody’s past. Right? But we all want a future that’s greater than our past. So When you hear me say future greater than your past, what’s that mean for you personally on how we achieve a future greater than our past? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Well, number one is honesty. I think you have to be really, really honest with yourself saying Why do I want what I want? What did my past really mean? What did I did I do anything? Do I have any guilt? Do I have any shame? Do I have Speaker Brett Gilliland: any Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Hang ups, do I not let myself in off? Like, these are the questions that are going that are dri that drive us. Right? These are the emotions that drive us. So really getting honest about Why do I want to create, let’s say, a million dollars? What is that going to be for? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And am I doing it to make myself feel better? Am I try am I doing it to prove a point to someone in fifth grade? Right? Like, should like that. Is right? Like, people do do things because of reasons that they were hurt in the past. And so honesty is really important because the only way to create a better futures to be really open about why. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like that. So, honestly, number one. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Being able to be uncomfortable with when shit goes wrong. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Speaker Ariana Jahja: I think so many so many of my clients, hit a pothole. So one of my clients said, you know, I I’ve hit a pothole, and I don’t know how to get out of it. And my answer was You’re gonna keep hitting potholes. It’s just how do you gracefully get out of that pothole? And, a, how can you look at the field, avoid potholes, And then when you do hit one, learn from the past potholes and get out of that one gracefully so that you can make it to the next level. I think so many people are not okay with being know, uncomfortable or wrong. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s funny. I just had this discussion with my, one of my kids on vacation. I don’t even remember what I don’t even remember what the story was, but I just said, you’ve gotta learn to be comfortable, being uncomfortable. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You know? And, doesn’t mean you like it. Yep. Right? Doesn’t mean I like when I hit a pothole. Yeah. You’re gonna hit a Speaker Ariana Jahja: positive. Exactly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So for me, I I call it strategic think time or STT. If you looked at my calendar right now, you’d see it on repeat every week, hour and a half. So ninety minutes, once a week, strategic thing time, that’s how I try to prevent puddles. Doesn’t, again, doesn’t mean that I’m going to not hit a pothole, but I’m trying to avoid it. Right? Yeah. So for me, again, it’s it’s journaling, it’s thinking it’s it’s trying to see the future even though that’s impossible, but trying to What what do you do personally to help you get to that next level? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Mhmm. For me, it’s, running It’s boxing. It’s it’s doing physical activity because what I have noticed, tracking. So to, you know, to go back to your point is, you know, in order to gracefully get out of those or avoid those potholes, is our our nervous system has to be regulated. And exercise is one of the best ways. I mean, sleep is number one. Okay. And so if you had to choose between sleep and exercise, Speaker Brett Gilliland: to sleep. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Always sleep. Sleep. Right. But exercise is really, really important because we release something called anandamide. They had an anandamide. And what that does is it helps with anxiety. And so if you have low anxiety, we’re more likely to obviously be better humans because we can connect with people more. We can get into flow states a lot more. And so for me, running is really is a lab. Right now. It used again, it used to be boxing, but now it’s more, you know, how can I push myself really, really hard during that run? So that I can take what I’m learning here now into the outside world. It’s a safe space for me to do that. So exercise for me for sure and then also getting getting my sleep. I don’t I don’t care what’s going on. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You’re eight hours a day person? Or are you, like, six, seven? Try at Speaker Ariana Jahja: least. Seven and a half? Yeah. Seems to be my my number. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I can I at seven? I’m like, good. Sometimes if I have too much sleep, I’m like, I’m actually tired. I agree. Speaker Ariana Jahja: I agree. I’m tired, Speaker Brett Gilliland: but — Yeah. — I have told myself to go to bed as I stated earlier. So you’ve you’ve mentioned it numerous times today. You you people that are into this personal growth stuff, you hear the flow state. Right? So define that for us. What does I mean, I I obviously clearly think I understand it, but I wanna hear from professional standpoint? How do you define what flow state means? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Sure. Yeah. So flow states are states where we feel and perform our best. They are different than meditation. So I’ll I’ll use meditation and flow. Right? So meditation, for example, we feel we might feel good. It might be hard, but we’re shutting off our pre our new brain, our prefrontal cortex. We’re trying to really decrease thoughts in class. Low states are states where the challenge of what we’re trying to do in the skill that we have are like in a goldilocks state. And so all of a sudden, we are losing sense of self. We are loo we’re in control. We feel in control because everything is falling in place. Right? And we are in the state where time doesn’t really exist the way that it usually does. Right? So we can think of maybe moments where you felt that way, but I I there plenty at times for, like, even dancing for me sometimes, it’s like, oh, I I know exactly what to do here. So I’m, like, in a flow state, but it’s it’s a cool feeling. Right? And so what we used to think is that it was just a switch where it’s like, okay, now I’m not in flow, now I’m flow. But what we’re learning and Again, the neuroscience behind this is it’s interesting, but nobody really actually knows what happens. If anyone tells you, I know exactly what happens. It’s not true. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Will be us. Speaker Ariana Jahja: But what we know is it’s a cycle. There are four stages we have to go through in order to be in flow. And and that’s what I coach people on as well is really teaching them if you are in this stage, what do you need to be doing to be in flow. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Can you tell us those stages? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Sure. So the first stage is the struggle phase. So during the struggle phase, you know, according to to Steven Copler. This is where we sit down to do a task, and it might feel really uncomfortable. This is the time when you’re like, oh, I don’t know this. You know, you just, you’re you get antsy, you Jahja get up, you wanna move. That’s because there’s a lot of cortisol, and norepinephrine, which is a type of adrenaline. And what happens is it it you don’t know how to do it and you have to focus. Right? And so that’s why you have cortisol in nore, norepinephrine because you have to focus on the task at hand, and now you have to use your working memory to say, how do I do this? And past memory to say, have I ever done anything like this before? Now, this is where the challenge skill comes in. If the challenge is too hard, gonna have too much anxiety. You’re not gonna be able to get into flow. So that’s we have to get through the struggle phase into release. And in release phase is when those moments when you’re like running or taking a shower and all of a sudden, all the stuff comes through. You’re like, oh my gosh. I know this answer and this answer, and this is what I should tell this client, and I don’t know if you’ve experienced that before. Speaker Brett Gilliland: The weirdest times. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So that’s the release phase. So we really wanna design our days where that’s where the recovery comes into is like, If you’re constantly trying to force solving a problem, it’s not gonna work. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Ariana Jahja: You have to walk away from the problem. Once you walk away from the problem, so for me running, I get downloads, I take my notes out, I type it, I go back to my desk, and I get into flow, because now I’ve had this. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That was your release. Yeah. So you’re taking notes while you’re running or you just check the number at all? Speaker Ariana Jahja: So most of the time, I take I’ll I’ll write down one word you know, to remember because as soon as I get back, I Jahja get back into flow. And then after flow, you have to recover because you are using up so much of the feel good chemicals that if you push it too far, you’re gonna have such a hard, come down It’s like, it’s literally you got all the best feeling drugs in your body. Right? You got the dopamine, you got serotonin, you got like all the all the goodies, right, oxytocin. And so all of a sudden, if you don’t recover, you’re gonna not do well the next day. Might wake up and you might feel like, oh, I feel depleted. I feel depressed. Right? And so the recovery piece is really important. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So that’s number three. Is that what’s the so number three is what? So you got struggle phase, release phase. Number three is flow. State. The flow. Okay. Yep. And then number four is the — Cover. — is recovery. And for you, recovery could be, it’s sleep, obviously. It it’s running. What else are you helping people with that you’re finding a lot Speaker Ariana Jahja: of great question. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Takeaways from recovery. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So recovery, we have active recovery and passive recovery. So active recovery, would be walking in nature. It would be, meditating. It would be taking a hot shower, an ice bath, And then passive recovery is more, you know, sitting sitting with friends, maybe, not alcohol. I not nothing against alcohol, and you love me some wine and and beer. But it’s not a good activity to recover. Right? Because it’s, T. V. Is not Speaker Brett Gilliland: from that recovery. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Exactly. TV is not a good recovery because you are actually your brain is actually active, and then takes you away out of the flow state. I hear Speaker Brett Gilliland: I hear too not to read a really exciting, like, for me, I love reading business books, but I hear, like, even though it’s good to read in bed before you go to sleep, sometimes you can hear that it’s not great to necessarily read the business book because I find myself — Yes. — there’s an idea Now I sit there for the next thirty minutes instead of falling asleep, I’m thinking in my I’m already designing what I need to be doing for that thing. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you agree with that? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Yeah. Because you’re almost kind of getting into a flow state there because you’re like I’m trying to solve the problem and Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Ariana Jahja: you know, you don’t have so the release might happen during your sleep. Right? And so, one of the things that is really fun that I will say is delegating to your unconscious. Right? So if you do have big business problems and you want your unconscious to solve for it, especially when you’re in sleep. Write the question down and then let it go. So it’s called the macgyver method. So saying, you know, what should I do about this client? Gilliland then you write down. Okay. I’m going to come back to this question tomorrow at 8AM. And what’s gonna happen is your unconscious is gonna start solving for it through pattern recognition and sleep because of me doing rem sleep is actually where we solve a lot of our problems. And so if we don’t get that rem sleep, we wake up more stressed. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Right. So so it’s actually going on in our minds, right, that even we’re sound asleep, have no idea That’s when you wake up with those ideas. It’s because our brain is working even when we don’t know it. Yeah. That’s amazing. Speaker Ariana Jahja: And that’s the part to be honest is that I I struggle with with a lot of leaders is when they have a hard time letting go. And I’ll you know, a lot of our problem solving, a lot of our greatness happens when we are not doing the thing. And so when we see people who packed their calendars and who are always doing the next and next and next. Yeah. It’s because they’re trying to control too much. They’re trying to control with what? They’re prefrontal cortex, the new brain. Not allowing the unconscious to do what it needs to do in order to solve for what needs to be solved. Right? So we we pushed you hard and we don’t allow. Eve. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s fascinating stuff, Jeff. Jeff, our producer over here. He’s kicking butt. So the the circuits of success are your attitude, your belief system, the actions that you have to take to get results, right, whatever those results are in your life. That’s that’s the whole point of this podcast. So when you hear me say the word action, I wanna lead with this, is I find sometimes where I get frustrated is the it’s the whole paralysis by analysis. Right? People have to over analyze everything. They have to have all the answers before they just do something. And I believe Not that I’m always right. Mhmm. But I believe sometimes you just have to take action. Right? Build the bridge as you’re crossing the river. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: But a lot of people can’t do that. So what thoughts actions, takeaways, advice would you have for somebody that just is constantly being paralyzed by overanalyzing everything. Speaker Ariana Jahja: So good. Yeah. Well, be be one complexity in life. Complexity is what helps us gather information and take that information and then decide the next step. So I think for people who want the, you know, the right answer, have it perfect, you know, just say, there is no right answer. There’s only learning And I think the more action you can take, the more of an evolved human being you become because, you know, the information that we get, we then curate and calibrate Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yep. — become the next level. So when you’re stuck in the analysis pro paralysis is really, you know, What’s the what’s the first step? What’s the smallest little tiny step that you can take that feels safe? And then from that, take all the other steps. Because what I see people do is like they’re trying to go from one to fifteen. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s true. Speaker Ariana Jahja: When they haven’t haven’t done one, two, three, four. Right? I was just coaching my husband on this last night. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you were coaching him. Yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Because he was like, oh, I’m gonna do this. And I’m like, okay, but you skipped step five six seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Ariana Jahja: So, you know, let’s get back to it, but there’s a whole podcast and if you should or should not coach your spouse. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Listen to that. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Usually, I well, I should try that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m getting coached. So I read something you talked about, Mirneuron, Neuroon, So what is that? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Yeah. So I love that. So we all have of these neurons that if we try to be they match how the other person’s neurobiology is, happening. Right? So if you are if your nervous system is relaxed and I come in to have to talk to to you, I will mirror that energetically. So fascinating. Right? And so I don’t know if you can think of situations, right, where, like, you walk into a room and you’re so stressed and someone is really calm and you’re like, I wanna be around this person. Right. Maybe you’re an maybe a dog or, you know, like, just being around them. And then the opposite. I’ll say Speaker Brett Gilliland: flip side could also happen. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Absolutely. Right? If you have a leader who’s always stressed and going on fumes, you’re gonna feel that. You don’t they don’t even have to say anything. You’re just even on Zoom. Like, I know for myself, some of my clients, I feel them on Zoom. Yeah. And I get, like, Speaker Brett Gilliland: the vibes. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. So it’s like how do you put walls up and how do you breathe through these situations is really, really important as well, so you don’t get their energy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I think you just said breathe through their that situation too is, I think, is is important because for me, meditation is not just sitting in a quiet room. In breathing. Right? Meditation can act be active. I call it active meditations. I can be in a meeting with something. And if I’m feeling that stress, come, like, I could be meditating right now when you’re talking and you not know it. Right? I think if we get really good at breathing, the more we breathe, because I think we’re all as human beings, we’re we’re shallow breathers. Right? We just breathe fast and a lot. I think it’s just slowing down even in a meeting and taking that deep breath. Where it doesn’t have to be awkward or obvious, but just slow down. Take a breath. Right? And to your point there on the, mirror neurons, I read in a book a long time ago when I was starting a business is that it’s and I’m assuming this is scientifically proven, but you can feel somebody’s energy from their heart, like, within, like, ten or fifteen. Yeah. So, you know, you see that hole or hear the, you can feel when they walk. You know when somebody walks in a room. Like, you know that energy. Right? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So my question to that is there are also days you may not have the energy that you know you need to have as as well trained and studied and and equipped as you are. There’s still days you don’t wanna do it. Right? So how do we get through those days, you don’t wanna do it and still bring that good positive vibe and that energy. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. I think that the breath breath is really, really important. I think if you can really figure out how to breathe your way into energy, right? So so there are certain as you can do that. I think for me, I think Huberman talks about the, psychological sigh. That’s one that always saves me, especially if sometimes I just wanna respond and react and I go, so if you ever see me doing that, I’m like, okay, trying to get energy to to respond, but yeah, there there are going to be days, we’re gonna have to push through. And I think it’s it’s going to be important to remember the why And remember, and give you, and give yourself grace, you know, that you might not be perfect that day. But if you have a history of showing up strong, for your people and you have one day off and being vulnerable and saying, you know, I’m I’m tired today or I’m struggling with this today. You know, I think that try to fake it too much. It’s it’s very obvious, and I think it confuses people. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s the that old saying fake it till you make it. That I get that, but it also somewhat annoys me. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Absolutely. Same. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How about we just be transparent and vulnerable and go out and build relationships Gilliland good things will happen? So, last few things here, Whitney, said to me, I I asked her about you. Obviously, I was doing my research. And I said, what’s what’s one of her? What’s one of the best things about Ariana? And she said, your unique, abilities, how the uniqueness about you is how you help leaders move from their old ways to their new ways. At such a rapid pace. And and I think that’s a very big compliment, right, because it’s the old can’t teach an old dog new tricks, but that’s what you’re doing every single day. Right? And so What is it about you that helps me, people like me get to point a to point b or point z, quicker and and in a better way? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Well, I like to always talk about the, well, that’s nice of her to say. I love that. I like to talk about the eighty twenty rule, right, where, you know, the eighty percent of Can I custom this button? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, yeah. Okay. It cuts away. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Eighty percent of the shit that you’re doing that’s holding you back. Right? And really looking at what’s the twenty percent of things that I want to do that’s making me feel amazing. Right? And so, again, going back to the beginning of the conversation, it’s really what am I going to start saying no to? And then also, what am I going to exploit in my life? What are the projects that I’m gonna go really deep, and I’m going to learn how to get into flow doing these things. Right? Instead of doing them all. Tend to say, you know, we, and then we end up being so overwhelmed that we don’t do anything a hundred percent. Right? So eighty twenty rule is really, really great of, you know, what are the eighty percent of things in my life that I’m doing that I don’t need to be doing that are taking me away from getting to where I’m trying to go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So, if we have our friend, Jeff here, follow you around these amazing cameras that he’s got, if we what were what were the things we would see out of your life? We followed you around, you know, for the next two or three days, no missed items that you’re doing to be at your peak performance. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Okay. So I think one of the things Get Speaker Brett Gilliland: energy on this one, you know, I see that. She’s she’s like, I got a good Well, Speaker Ariana Jahja: and I I have to be honest. It’s It’s a work in progress. Like, it’s one thing to know theory, and it’s another thing to practice that theory. So I won’t I won’t lie every day of my life. I this is my my lab. Yeah. Right? It’s like, let me try let me test this out to see how I feel. Am I living in and integrity with what I teach. Right? And so one of the main things is really being clear on my goals. So The last in our team is amazing. She is very good at, like, identifying. Okay. This is what’s priority this month. This is what’s priority this quarter. And then I do that with everything in my life is to say, what’s important to me this month so that I can filter everything through today to say Is it the eighty percent or is it is it the twenty percent? Right? So which things do I need to say yes to in order to get to that goal faster? Be through leverage. And so, My calendar is everything. I I write everything down, and follow that and and and take naps. If you follow me, I I take a lot of naps. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So you’re you’re okay just shutting it down in the middle of day and just I Speaker Ariana Jahja: have learned to. It was really hard before because I feel that energy. Like, I’ll lay down. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Is it like an hour or like ten minutes? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Oh, no. It’s like, typically, my ring says fifteen minutes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Sleep twenty five minutes laying down because it takes me a while. So so laying down and you feel the energy flowing through you. Like, it’s processing. So I if I had a client, it was a really challenging call, I’ll lay down, and I’m like, turn off my brain, and I feel their energy coming through me, the ideas of, like, shedding, if there’s anything toxic needs to be, like, go off. That that’s probably my Number one, that and running has been my number one fuel to be at a higher level doing projects that I’m doing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like to You know, I’ve saw recently. I think I might buy them because I keep thinking about them. Are these smart, the smart goggles? Have you seen those things? They’re like like the they’re like a big They’re like goggles. You can’t see through them, but they’re like, they do heat. They do cool. They do some massage. They do meditation stuff. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Wow. I have never heard this. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. They’re through that thera body. You know, like, the guns that you can do in your muscles. It’s the same company. And, I’m not paid to say that. I just and I’ve never even used them, so I don’t even know if they it could be a gimmick for all I know. Sorry there about it if you’re listening. But, I think I’m gonna get them because I think to your point of that slowing down some of that stuff can be very impactful. I don’t know why I said that, but I but I did Speaker Ariana Jahja: because I think Speaker Brett Gilliland: it’s important to to slow like I said, slow down. I don’t take naps, but that breathing thing for me is a Speaker Ariana Jahja: big Right. And it doesn’t have to be a nap. It is just sitting down to allow your physical body to process would just happen. Yeah. And especially if you’re trying to move fast, right, it’s like, you have to stop and process what happens. We can transition into the next thing. So transitions are really important to to to say, you know, I’m visualizing where I’m going next. How do I need to show up? And how can I process what just happened so I can step into this next Speaker Brett Gilliland: So talk to us about glow? How are you all helping people? Let’s let’s brag about glow for a while. Your guys’ office is amazing, by the way. Speaker Ariana Jahja: It’s cool. Right? All the all the pink? Yeah. Yeah. It’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: very cool. Just the building, the the entrance to your, to your office space. It’s cool. You Speaker Ariana Jahja: would think we work with all women, but we don’t. We don’t. We just allow men to embrace their feminine, which, you know, it’s it’s healthy. So so glow, The the thing that attracted me to glow at the most is that, you know, when we look at where we are right now today, is there is so much power. So many businesses have so much power, and I believe that most humans are good. But when you look at what’s happening sometimes with the way that wealth and power are distributed, it it worries me. Right? But I also at the core belief that people are doing the best that they know how to. And I think it’s just going to be getting people in place to support the transfer And so what really attracted me to to with me in SLS is, like, they fundamentally understand that, that, you know, they can come in and they it doesn’t have to be a rigidity to say, you know, do x y z, but follow that energy, follow that next right step, even though it might not be so great on paper. Right? But they they understand that fundamentally that, you know, there are ways to do that. And there’s a there’s a lot of work to be done. Yep. A lot of work to be done. And so I’m really excited about that. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: you’re helping people what I always talk about getting people off the treadmill of life. Right? Yeah. Slow down. Your busy leader, slow down. Let’s think where are we going. Clarity, you talked about that earlier. I think for any of us, they’re business leaders and and even leading our homes. Right? Just clarity on what the goal is. Yeah. Right? How do we want these kids to be raised? Is a is a big deal. So Well, Speaker Ariana Jahja: and one more thing I will just add to is, you know, playfulness. I think part part of, you know, with with glow too is the pink and the, and there’s a little bit of playfulness in all of this. Like, let’s not be so serious. And this is kind of my, you know, I wouldn’t say this is lows, but this is my, value as don’t ever take anything so fucking serious that you’re going to, like, be miserable over it. Right? Like there there’s this playfulness in life that we need to embrace. Because I think what we’ve done too much, so is gone too much to the right side of, like, everything has to be perfect. And The lightness and the fun has gotten lost a little bit. Right? And so that’s the other thing is, like, we we bring a little bit of, like, hey, let’s go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that because Tim and I talk about that at work a lot is, like, if we start stop laughing — Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: — we’re done. Like, have fun, man. It’s two damn serious. You know? What’s, like, Speaker Ariana Jahja: That’s why I have to go dance and Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Yeah. — Speaker Ariana Jahja: let it all out. Right? Like you get your energy there. And Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. So where do our listeners find more of you? Speaker Ariana Jahja: So I am primarily on Instagram. Okay. That’s that’s my that’s my jam, and then also of course on LinkedIn. And our glow website, on there as well. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So we’re gonna play a game. Speaker Ariana Jahja: I’m sorry. Ultimate Podcast. Called the glow accelerator podcast. Speaker Brett Gilliland: The glow accelerator podcast. We’ll put all this in the show notes. It’ll be there. I just pulled up your Instagram here. So Pick a number between one and ten. We’re gonna play an Instagram game that we’re doing. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Let’s do seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Now between one and three, grab grab a number between one and three. Number two. Alright. You got somebody as surfing. Somebody is, you guys are doing some bench jumps, you’re on a beach, it looks like. You’re having Speaker Ariana Jahja: some Speaker Brett Gilliland: sometimes stepping away from the day to day can bring the most growth. We’ve been talking about that today. Recab of our family trip to San Diego and oceanside. I had figured out that play slash work trip with intention and purpose is my favorite kind of trip for me. Made some incredible connections and decisions ready to tackle the next quarter. So this is exactly what we’ve just been talking about, right? By this arena? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. That’s why Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love this. Talk to me about your trip to San Diego, oceanside. What was so amazing about it? Speaker Ariana Jahja: Well, my husband is originally from, California. He grew up in California. He was born here, but so a, you know, he’s a total California boy. So he was in his zone, if you will. So that was really cool. It was my son’s first time going to California, and I just love the ocean. It’s just something about the ocean where, like, it just relaxes you. It puts you in your place, you know, in Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, some grounding. Right? I mean, it’s not grounding. Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yeah. Like, It it just makes you feel gratitude and connection. And my cousin from Germany came, and so she was with us, and I hadn’t seen her in years. So a very special trip I got. Actually, this is where I got this tattoo because, you know, palm trees are very resilient if there’s a storm or hurricane or whatever. It might be comes right back up and so that’s kinda I try to live my life is, you know, just gonna bring you down. But you don’t if you are so strong at your core Speaker Brett Gilliland: — Speaker Ariana Jahja: Yep. — you can go through anything. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love it. I love it. Speaker Ariana Jahja: I love Speaker Brett Gilliland: where Annie has been awesome having you on the surge of success podcast. Thank you so much for being verse.