On the podcast I talk with Ryan about the TikTokification of video ads, how partnerships help increase the value of premium subscription tiers, and why you should be thinking about retention, not just downloads, when working with influencers.Top Takeaways🗣️ User acquisition can be more challenging for apps with niche audiences, which is why you should focus on channels where you can target by interest and search.🎯 SEO feeds the retargeting funnel more than it drives direct conversions — but keyword data is valuable for product positioning.🤗 Influencer marketing is extremely effective across the whole marketing funnel — from acquisition to retention — helping to build trust and authenticity.🦾 Marketing automation is essential for educating users how the product will improve their life once they've gotten into it — especially for more complex products.🖥️ Apps make more money from web subscriptions, so retarget users to drive them to sign up on the web rather than mobile.About Ryan Watson👨‍💻 Director of Growth Marketing at onX💡 “Our motto is: ‘We want to awaken the adventurer in everyone.’ It’s very focused on the experience that they're having, and not just how the tool operates.”👋  LinkedIn | TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Work at onX‣ onX on LinkedIn‣ onX on Twitter‣ onX on YouTubeFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[1:47] Hunting origins: Ryan takes listeners through the background of onXmaps, Inc., the market-dominating subscription app you might not have heard of if you’re not a hunter.[7:03] Find the product fit: If you’re looking to build a business, look at underserved niches.[13:34] Easy and hard: Narrow niches come with their own challenges.[18:00] Channel selection: Targeting via interest is crucial to marketing to a niche audience.[19:34] SEOperation: SEO does convert, but more importantly feeds the retargeting funnel.[21:18] Secret channels: Ryan shares some of the more successful channels that might not be considered at first.[22:41] TikTokification: Short form video is on the rise — how do you leverage that “escape-style content”? There’s still a market for long form podcasting too.[27:08] Influencer culture: Working with a large number of the right influencers is important for authenticity, but sometimes in-house video works better. What’s crucial is a constant flow of video.[29:17] Retention: People don’t think about retention as much as they should, Ryan says. Ads can actually be a retention strategy.[31:39] Howdy, partner: Elite members get special deals. For onX, it’s about “provid[ing] true value of what matters to your audience,” Ryan explains.[36:23] End-to-end: It’s all about figuring out your creative door-opener for getting people interested in your product.[40:03] Personnel balance: Having a strong in-house creative team versus hiring from outside is a personal preference, and depends on the product.[40:44] MMP: Ryan talks all things experimentation on ATT, SKAdNetwork, organic lift, and directing traffic between the web and the app stores.[45:13] Bundling: onX believes in specific concept-based apps for specific users. Sometimes there’s cross-conversion.

On the podcast I talk with Sylvain about the top subscription app insights you should be thinking about, how important cohorting is when looking at growth metrics, and why good advice can turn bad if you apply it at the wrong stage.Top Takeaways💎 In an early stage, engagement is more important than growth💎 When looking at retention for your subscription apps, segment your users based on their subscription status💎 Launching only a monthly plan first can help you improve the product💎 Gifting is a great way to increase the spend ceiling💎 You need to ask for the annual upgrade beyond sign upAbout Sylvain Gauchet👨‍💻 Director of Revenue Strategy at Babbel and founder of Growth Gems💡 “Whether your onboarding is going to be short — because you get people to experience the background removal — or it's long because you need to sell them on the idea, it's still about convincing them. It’s for you to figure out what’s the best way to convince them.”👋  LinkedIn | TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Learn a language at Babbel‣ Sign up for the Growth Gems newsletter‣ Gabor-Granger Pricing Model Explanation and Survey Template‣ Check out Gabor-Granger on YouTube‣ How To Price Your Product: A Guide To The Van Westendorp Pricing Model‣ Check out Van Westendorp on YouTubeFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:11] The curator: On top of working a full-time job, content consumer extraordinaire Sylvain “mines” the best growth insights to share in a biweekly newsletter.[3:13] Top Gems: Strategy[3:17] Get out and explore: Andy Carvell, co-founder at Phiture, preaches big swings for big results in place of sophisticated measuring and A/B testing. The stage you’re in shapes the tactics you use.[7:05] Clash of priorities: On top of revenue, the CAC/LTV ratio considers health and growth instead of one or the other, says Michael Berliner, former principal product manager at MasterClass.[13:02] Engage all systems: Without engagement, growth is meaningless, according to bestselling author Nir Eyal. Don’t scale until you’ve nailed engagement and know that people are willing to pay.[15:29] Avoiding extremes: Eric Seufert, analyst and strategy consultant at Heracles Media, says that if you’re blowing up, you should spend on paid acquisition much earlier than you think — even before onboarding and perfecting the product. Just don’t focus too much on a specific channel — extremes aren’t good.[20:22] Engineering success: Testing velocity is critical. Canva head of revenue and product growth David Burson knows you have to get comfortable with just enough engineering and moving fast. Growth and product engineering aren’t the same — you’re going to fail sometimes.[23:32] Ease the tension: Monetization, engagement, and virality need balance, says independent mobile growth consultant Thomas Petit. Doubling the price for double the short-term revenue sometimes works, but at what cost for long-term retention?[26:35] Top Gems: Retention[26:40] Segment, re-engage: You can’t look at everything in aggregate, Sylvain says — if you do, you won’t understand the story behind user behavior. But as Thomas Petit also highlights, segmenting on a subscription basis helps you to target appropriately through re-engagement.[29:27] Month by month: For cash flow, annual plans reign supreme. But monthly plans offer incremental improvement opportunities, says PhotoRoom co-founder and CEO Matthieu Rouif.[33:30] Winning by proxy: It’s very difficult to impact the tail end of retention. Finding earlier patterns and indicators helps you to optimize for the proxy — and provides the only way to do so, says RBI head of digital marketing Anja Obermüller.[36:41] Talking tactics: Strategy matters, but the technicalities of involuntary churn could be the key to increasing retention. Patrick Campbell, CEO of ProfitWell, advises looking at the Tactical Retention Zone as well as the Strategic Retention ends of the value spectrum.[39:35] Top Gems: Onboarding & Activation[39:40] Seeing is believing: Thomas recommends not A/B testing in the early stages — make the change directly instead. If it matters, you’ll know when you’ve made the desired impact. You don’t have to mimic mature, late-stage companies like DuoLingo that religiously A/B test everything.[42:59] Onboarding is separate: Darius Mora, formerly the CMO of Reflectly, knows how important onboarding optimization is — to the point that you should view onboarding as a separate product.[45:06] The art of persuasion: Don’t bother with a how-to tutorial, says Leon Sasson, co-founder and CTO of Rise Science. Instead, educate and convince: Demonstrate how the product affects users’ lives and why they should care.[50:14] Collateral damage: Leon also emphasizes a classic mistake with funnel optimization: Making moves in one direction hurting elsewhere — say, increasing trials negatively affecting long-term retention. Use counter-metrics to avoid these pitfalls, which don’t have to be that sophisticated.[52:06] Countdown to experimentation: Growth trainer and coach Ethan Garr is keen to stress that you don’t jump into tactics — you experiment instead. Just because something works for someone doesn’t mean it’ll work for you, so avoid copying tests.[54:32] Realignment: What happens before is as important as what comes after, Sylvain says. Phitur senior designer Marissa Hsu clarifies the importance of setting the right expectations during onboarding for ensuring user acquisition continuity.[59:26] Top Gems: Monetization[59:31] Surveying the landscape: Giancarlo Musetti, growth product manager at Burner, strongly recommends surveying to understand the best ways to deploy paywalls. Especially if you’re in the early stages, talk to users.[1:03:16] It’s all about the percentages: You can’t ignore the percentage of users who see the paywall. Monitor it, because many apps make it difficult for people to actually pay for them. Of the peopl...

On the podcast we talk with Lexi about data.ai’s State of Mobile report, the countries subscription apps should focus on for growth, and why things still look bright for apps despite a decline in overall spend.Top Takeaways🕹️ Mobile app spend is down, but that may not be a bad thing🤳 Non-gaming apps see additional growth with resilient spend✍️ The subscription model underpins growth for non-gaming apps📈 Look to non-U.S. markets for new opportunities💝 The most successful apps will offer frictionless, personalized experiencesAbout Lexi Sydow👨‍💻 Head of Insights at data.ai, a unified data AI company that combines consumer and market data with artificial intelligence to offer insights into trends.💡 “We’ve gotten to a place where it’s become very native behavior — not just in the app store sense, but even mobile commerce. … It’s those habitual things that we do that reinforce our habits.”👋  LinkedIn | TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Get the State of Mobile 2023 report‣ Work at data.ai (remote and hiring!)Follow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:16] History report: From starting as “The Retrospective” to including more forward-thinking pieces, publishing the Annual State of Mobile report has been a decade of fun for data.ai — and a valuable resource for app developers.[4:54] More reports: Lexi outlines data.ai’s various other reports that help separate real trends from massaged data.[7:48] An evolutionary thing: Most changes to data.ai’s reports have been organic, largely thanks to a maturation of the industry, analysis, and the team’s understanding. [11:54] It’s data, it’s AI, it’s data.ai: data.ai’s sophisticated team collects data based on their own products, utilizing AI in the process. This helps them make their own accurate estimates, and they’re proud of that.[18:39] M.E.T.H.O.D.: Lexi dives into the hows of data collection in the age of privacy, including data.ai’s growing categorization of apps.[21:53] Marquee landmark year: For the first time ever, spend is down. Lexi details the data and what it tells us.[28:03] Concentrate: The top three countries for app spend have their own chart in the report. But it’s not all dominated by China, the U.S., and Japan.[30:21] GDP transformed: While China is three or four times the size of the U.S., China’s spend is only marginally greater than the latter. There’s still a lot of headroom for China to move.[39:30] Top app categories: In many categories, subscription apps take the top spot. Usually in the top 10, storage subscription app Google One jumped straight to number one in consumer spending this year.[42:36] What is a phone?: It’s becoming — if it hasn’t already become — native behavior to use phones to do everything. Meaningful personalized experiences convert to subscriptions and in-app purchases.

On the podcast we talk with Brennan about the challenge of building and growing kids apps in 2022, how to make effective decisions with minimal data, and why AppsFlyer had to build Sago Mini a custom SDK.Top Takeaways🧒 Building and growing kids apps is hard🤔 Making effective decisions with minimal data is a challenge💕 Find the right partner to invest in solving tough challenges together — especially if it’s a custom jobAbout Brennan Clark👨‍💻 Director of Product at Sago Mini, which has received more than 100 million downloads. The company offers three subscription apps for preschoolers, a recently launched show on Apple TV+, and a physical subscription box.💡 “We've staked our claim in this high-quality, interactive content — that's our competitive advantage. We invest a lot in creating the best content for kids as possible [and] making sure it's interactive. It's not passive YouTube Kids-style content.”👋  LinkedInLinks & Resources‣ Check out Sago Mini‣ Work at Sago Mini‣ Connect with Brennan at LinkedInFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:01] Building basics: When you build a kids app, you’re building both for the user (the kid) and the consumer (the parent) who pays. Building for preschoolers who can’t read yet is a challenge layered on top.[8:11] Think of the parent: Sago Mini complements its kids-first experience with a parent app to demonstrate the value of the app to parents directly. But how does it balance the two and prevent churn from each group?[12:35] The pitch: Providing the best digital tools and products for preschoolers means exploring different engaging avenues of kids learning — instead of letting them passively follow (scary) YouTube algorithms. The key is emphasizing what Brennan calls “high-quality screen time.”[16:00] What data?: Kids data management is a huge topic. Getting creative with partners might be the best solution, and Sago Mini struck gold with AppsFlyer’s custom SDK job. But it’s just as important that you (or your partners) don’t collect more data than you need.[23:11] Product testing: Product and UX design testing is a weekly thing at Sago Mini. It’s tough to put yourself in kids’ shoes, but it’s also crucial to get features right.[26:54] Paid ads: Sago Mini can’t use the IDFA or ATT prompt, and is about to lose its Google Ad ID. With additional pressure on retention, how does it work with so many constraints? (Hint: they get creative with ToFu.)[36:14] Mixing up the channels: Apple Arcade is a highly-curated safe space, perfectly aligned with Sago Mini’s value — it’s also not as crowded by preschooler content as other platforms are. But it’s the Apple TV+ show that’s really driving 80% of their revenue.[42:03] The web experience: While some kids companies build their entire funnel on the web, Sago Mini views it more as a lead-generating, ToFu strategy to get kids on the apps ASAP.[44:25] Innate ceilings: Brennan talks about one of the biggest “problems” kids app developers face, and how looking at the path holistically helps.

On the podcast we talk about RevenueCat’s State of Subscription Apps report, all the nuance that didn’t make it into the report, and why your app landing in the bottom quartile of some metrics might not be as bad as it seems.Top Takeaways🤔 Understand your own business model and unique leverage📈 Consider the stage of your app when looking at benchmarks 🖐️ 5 key insights: conversions, renewals, retention and moreLinks & Resources‣ The report: State of Subscription Apps 2023‣ Give us your feedback‣ One year retention rate insights‣ Join the RevenueCat team‣ Follow RevenueCat on Linkedin‣ Follow RevenueCat on TwitterFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:33] The why: RevenueCat is uniquely positioned to measure the data set released in the State of Subscription Apps 2023 report. (By the way, if you don’t want your data set featured in the report, just let us know.)[7:18] The how: Anonymized data from $4 billion in tracked revenue across 22,000 apps is a lot to dig into. But it’s important to take it all in context for your own app’s situation.[13:15] The what: Be sure to understand your own business model and the unique leverage you have. Price is a factor in retention.[18:50] The flipside: Big acquisition costs and ad spend means you need to ideally be in the top quartile to get the right returns.[23:12] Drawn and quartered: Why the report uses the upper, middle, median, and lower quartiles is important.[32:43] Key results: David and Jacob go deep on each of the report’s top 5 takeaways.[40:22] Calculating value: Understanding lifetime value (LTV) isn’t easy. You have to be careful not to fall into the naive developer trap. The good news is that predictive LTV is on RevenueCat’s roadmap.[44:53] Retention: Weekly subscriptions have a 73% retention rate by week two, which drops to 3% by the end of the first year. But while monthly subscription starts lower at 64%, it comparatively only drops to 11%. Survival analysis: The longer you stay subscribed, the more likely you are to continue subscribing.[49:16] Annual vs. monthly: Why is annual better than monthly? The answer might not be so obvious. (Hint: product quality.)[55:14] The magic of subscriptions: If users are more likely to stick around the longer they stick around, minimal churn on annual subscriptions means more money (for free!) next year.[1:00:21] Trials and tribulations: What percentage of apps have a trial strategy? Perhaps surprisingly, a lot don’t have one at all[01:08:03] Trial duration: David dives into the trial-to-paid conversion rate. The results were counterintuitive.

On the podcast we talk with Osman about Duolingo’s culture of experimentation, data and testing as a moat, and why passive aggressive push notifications actually work in the right context.Top Takeaways🧪 Leverage a culture of experimentation to create a top user experience📊 Data and testing are Duolingo’s best moat👍 Passive-aggressive push notifications might work in the right contextAbout Osman Mansur👨‍💻 Product Manager (PM) at Duolingo, the global language learning app with close to 60 million active users.💪 As PM on the retention team, Osman plays a key role in maximizing user engagement and retention through specific mechanics, with a dedicated testing and experimentation regimen.💡 “Just by the sheer amount of data that we collect, we're really able to drill down and optimize a lot of things on the app. And it keeps us busy as a product team, because there's so much stuff that we know we can improve.”👋  LinkedIn | MediumLinks & Resources‣ Duolingo’s findings on notifications (Twitter thread)‣ Duolingo’s findings on streak rewards (Twitter thread) ‣ How does Duo decide what message to send? The secret is in the AI! ‣ The habit-building research behind your Duolingo streak ‣ Join the Duolingo teamFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:08] Test everything: Osman explains how the data Duolingo collects and analyzes is one of the company’s best moats.[5:26] Ideation generation: Sometimes the bottom-up approach works best for driving team roadmaps, but iteration and experimentation is at the heart of Duolingo’s testing process.[11:02] Cooperation, working together: At Duolingo, teams share what they’ve learned with each other to create a better product, but they also cross over on analysis and experimentation.[17:48] Looking back: To track long-term impact, Duolingo uses holdout experiments and looks at feature-level metrics via dashboards[25:34] Notifications 101: Osman explains how a big driver of retention and company growth has been its notification strategy, learning a lot about what does and doesn’t work along the way.[33:35] Let’s get creative: The secret to impactful retentive notifications is getting the tone right, and even conversing with users. Sterile voices don’t work — opinionated voices just might.[37:30] Keep it simple: Messaging and theme matters for notifications, and so does copy length. Reduce cognitive load to increase willingness to engage. But once you’re in the app, you can get more complex for engaged users.[40:10] Emoji titles: Osman’s team discovered that emojis are actually better in the title than in the body. Why it’s an attention grabber is still a mystery.[41:53] Falling flat: Not every experiment works, but there are still great lessons to learn. The tone of an organic character works better than a brand talking to users like marketers.[46:33] Keeping the streak going: The streak is one of the best Duolingo retention mechanics, Osman explains. He dives into how the company tinkered with it to prevent domino effect user drop offs, and how the streak widget works in iOS.

On the podcast we talk with John about the far reaching implications of the European Union’s Digital Markets Act, how app developers should be thinking about the opportunities created, and why Apple making so much money from the App Store might be bad for Apple long-term.Top Takeaways⚖️ The EC’s DMA is set to shake things up in a big way — but how isn’t completely clear🪟 Don’t panic, app developers — the DMA creates opportunities, too🤑 The profitability of the App Store might not be good for Apple in the long-termAbout John Gruber👨‍💻 John runs Daring Fireball, is host of The Talk Show podcast, and co-hosts the Dithering podcast.💡 “One of the rules in the App Store is that you cannot explain the rules of the App Store in your app.”👋  TwitterLinks & Resources‣ Mark Gurman’s article on how Apple is responding to the EU’s DMA‣ If a Third-Party App Store Falls in the Forest and No One Uses It, Does It Make a Sound?‣ Check out Daring Fireball‣ The Dithering podcast‣ The Talk ShowFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:03] Get ready: The European Commission’s 100-page Digital Markets Act is going to seriously shake things up in a major bid to regulate big tech. But what is it, what does it mean, and who does it apply to?[11:00] Keeping it cordial: Apple’s relationship with the Japan Fair Trade Commission during similar legislation was respectful. It’s not clear the same can be said of their dealings with the EU.[13:24] The ABCs of USB: Whatever your feelings on legal mandates for USB ports, at least it’s clear. Not so with the DMA, John argues.[18:14] We don’t care: John believes that the EC’s priorities aren’t aligned with developers or consumers. There are lessons from the Dutch case of dating apps with a huge 27% commission charged by Apple, as well as constraints on Netflix selling inside the app.[24:26] Payment processing vs. licensing: 30% is a very expensive payment processing fee. But Apple views it as a licensing fee — a privilege to run your software on their system.[38:07] The eye of the apple: Will Apple soften up or is it just money-grabbing? Apps have morphed as Apple didn’t realize how popular the iPhone could become, and App Store commission is a large part of its current growth.[44:37] Multiplatform allure: If Apple is seen as an untrustworthy partner with poor App Store management, developers might want to develop across different platforms and avoid relying solely on Apple — even if its exclusive apps have typically been the most successful.[51:21] What gives, Google?: Despite being allowed, there’s a mystery around why sideloading and third-party app stores never really took off with Android. (Hint: They can’t reach mass adoption.)[58:26] The two big turning points: The DMA makes clear that within the app, apps can talk about outside payments, which means Apple now has to compete with web payments. Can Apple charge its commission on sideloaded apps and/or 3rd party app stores?[1:01:08] Global continuity: Even a fully enforced DMA isn’t existential for Apple. The question of when they’re going to do right by the platform is up for debate.

On the podcast I talk with Dan about how to design experiments that answer the right questions, common A/B testing pitfalls to avoid, and how a simple checklist might just save your complex experiment.Top Takeaways🍞 Conclusions from tests sometimes go stale faster than you realize👌 Minimizing the cost of running tests will improve decision making🤪 Check your sanity — or don’t live and die by statistical significanceAbout Dan Pannasch👨‍💻 Senior Product Manager at RevenueCat💪 Dan saw what experimentation looked like across a portfolio of app businesses when his previous company TelTech’s success led to an acquisition by IAC. He joined RevenueCat in May 2022 and leads the Experiments project.💡 “You could change the color [of the buy button in A/B testing and] release it in the new application. And if you can't tell which one won [with users], then you learned that it doesn't matter. You didn't learn which one won, but you did learn that it doesn't matter for you right now.”👋 Twitter | LinkedInLinks & Resources‣ Join the RevenueCat team‣ Sub Club interview with Blinkist’s Jaycee Day‣ RevenueCat’s Experiments toolFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[2:18] Experimentation: What is app experimentation and why should you do it? The right decision making, considering impact on variables, and risk mitigation are everything when it comes to user experience.[9:04] Taking a page from DuoLingo’s playbook: Product strategy and intuition naturally limits possibilities — and it’s not the place for A/B testing. Microdecisions within deliverables are testable, and then it’s just cost-benefit analyses. [14:04] The early days: The cost-benefit analysis should pervade every stage of the process, from early growth and beyond. Trying to design the perfect A/B test isn’t always possible when customers are begging you for.[19:20] Paywall plays: Where you put the paywall is a tough decision. But there are strategies for implementation and risk mitigation.[24:35] Testing 101: Be sure to write down the hypothesis before testing so that you can measure impact. Unexpected results — where you learn the most about variables — depend on it.[28:05] Follow it up: Dan shares his thoughts on user follow ups to boost quantitative data with qualitative data. Sometimes talking to users can be very powerful.[31:13] Sanity check: How to do a testing plan, as done by Dan during his time as a PM at TelTech. Plus, an explanation of statistical significance.[39:53] Impact and intuition: To understand user experience impact and product intuition, it’s critical to ensure the design aligns with the value proposition.[42:22] Actual testing: There are pitfalls and screw-ups to watch out for when testing (and even before).[46:33] Analyzing the results: Dan provides his overview for analyzing the results after running the experiment. Second and third order effects are important but not always immediately obvious. [48:41] The Experiments product: RevenueCat’s new tool enables easy A/B testing for two offerings. The data helps you analyze the full subscription lifecycle to understand which variant is producing more value for your business.[55:55] Bugs: No product will ever be perfect, but Experiments offers app developers the tools and confidence to make sure it’s at least most of the way there.

On the podcast I talk with Melissa and Félix about why more apps should be more than just apps, the benefits of a hard paywall, and why a lower price might actually make you more money even if the A/B test shows it didn’t.Top Takeaways📱 More apps should be more than just apps💳 Hard paywalls can (and do) sometimes pay off💵 How a price change can lead to big returns — if the quality is thereAbout Melissa Cash & Félix Boudreau👨‍💻 Melissa is Co-Founder and CEO and Félix is Head of Growth at Pok Pok💪 Their first app, Pok Pok Playroom, is an Apple Design Award-winning preschool app that sparks creativity and imagination through open-ended play💡 “It's important to think about your updates from a content and subscription value point of view, but also from a marketing point of view, and really try to balance those narratives.” — Melissa👋 Melissa on LinkedIn | Melissa on Twitter | Félix on LinkedIn Links & Resources‣ Pok Pok Playroom‣ Watch the app trailer on YouTube‣ A mother's entrepreneurial inspiration ‣ Melissa on The Mom Halo podcast ‣ The Apple Design Award Story ‣ Melissa on the Snippets of Genius podcast Follow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[1:40] Empowered play: What could it look like to equip and educate today’s children to think for themselves? Melissa shares the story of how her co-founders wanted to empower creative, independent play for their young son in a digital space.[6:16] More than an app: There’s a much broader vision for Pok Pok in the works. Starting digital in a digital era gives the app a head start against business models that have been adapted to become digital.[10:47] Investing in the future: The team at Pok Pok places a “hive mind” focus on the long-term strategy of the brand. They aim to earn the trust of parents (as well as their kids) for the best possible customer experience.[13:15] You are the prototype: What did it take to build Pok Pok into an award-winning, successful app? Melissa shares about their robust testing and prototyping process.[16:57] The data tracks: Félix talks about how to balance the protection of qualitative and quantitative data while getting the most out of what you can safely track and collect. They use intrinsic motivation to keep kids playing in healthy ways — a win-win-win for everyone.[24:19] The monetization conversation: Creating an app that keeps evolving was the key to recurring revenue. Continual content with real value creation — for the parent as much as for the child — was the way forward.[27:06] Easy lessons from a hard paywall: Testing the hard paywall took a lot of tinkering — resulting in some unintended (but welcome) consequences in user behavior. Now, there’s a video paywall in the pipeline.[40:19] The price is right: Félix and Melissa discuss how to find the sweet spot with price testing that enables solid paid acquisition and LTV. Ultimately, doubling the price led to double the revenue.[46:18] The power of storytelling: Subscription app entrepreneurs should learn how to tell good stories. Melissa and Félix share their wisdom about creating compelling stories in business and networking, as well as the importance of great in-app events.

On the podcast we talk with Jaycee about how Blinkist increased trial starts by 23%, how to balance user experience with business objectives, and why telling people how to cancel can actually lead to fewer cancellations.Top Takeaways⚖️ Balancing ethics and business means making tough decisions, but taking a smart approach lets you master both🤝 Helping people unsubscribe isn’t the most intuitive thing for subscription app businesses, but ethical design patterns might be better for business in the long run🔎 Transparency around the cancellation process can drive app success in multiple waysAbout Jaycee Day👨‍💻 Senior Product Designer at developer platform GitHub and previously at Blinkist💪 Jaycee facilitated a sign-up increase of 23% following customer service complaints (which also dropped by 55%) at Blinkist. Even Apple took notice of her ethical design pattern💡 “It's because of the transparency and the trust. … People have been burned so many times through other apps that it benefited us. … [Users thought,] Finally, an app that I can trust — they know how I feel, and they're listening. That was just super important: Letting people know that they can cancel [and that] they don't have to be scared of us.”👋 Jaycee Day | LinkedIn | Twitter | Medium | GitHubLinks & Resources‣ The story of Blinkist's 23% Conversion‣ Ethical design pattern at AppleFollow us on Twitter‣ David Barnard‣ Jacob Eiting‣ RevenueCat‣ Sub ClubEpisode Highlights[1:47] Origin story: From founding to freelancing, Jaycee helped transform Blinkist in under three years.[3:52] Internet fame: The ethical design pattern Jaycee helped evolve offers subscription apps the ability to understand the product discovery process in a different light. She talks about its inception at Blinkist.[9:05] Zombie subscribers: The balance between business and ethics isn’t always easy to strike. Jaycee explains how customer empathy helped with product design.[11:51] The first pitch: The early stages of ethical design and the goal of reducing customer complaints initially came from trial reminder testing. The reminders had the unintended positive consequence of increasing push notifications.[16:29] The big rollout: With things on the up and up for Jaycee and her team, they built an A/B test prototype with “overwhelmingly positive” results.[20:47] You can stop complaining now: A 55% drop in customer complaints wasn’t just theory. Why did it work so well?[24:03] Mission unsubscription: It may not be the most intuitive thing for subscription apps to help people who don’t want to be subscribed to unsubscribe. But this effort brings indirect benefits like reducing cancellations and increasing trial sign-up rates.[27:21] Retain and engage: Jaycee discusses how Blinkist was limited in its tracking capacities, but it used some unconventional markers to establish that the efforts were working.[31:10] The biggest subscription app article of the year: Promoting principles via the user experience community brings more attention and business success.[33:48] The aftermath: People care about the ethics of user experience as well as the business side. Jaycee discusses the major ripple effect of the ethical design she spearheaded: Case in point, Apple features it on their website.