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Welcome to Count Me In, with your host, Adam Larson. In this episode, Adam is joined by Tim Hedley, the Executive in Residence at Fordham University and Shari Littan, Director, Corporate Reporting Research & Thought Leadership at IMA.  Join this thought-provoking discussion as they delve into the importance of internal controls, the evolving landscape of sustainability reporting, and the challenges and benefits organizations face in adopting sustainable business practices.Discover how the COSO framework, the gold standard for reliable reporting, has been adapted to include non-financial reporting objectives, aligning with the rise of sustainability and ESG reporting. Explore critical trends in the world of ESG reporting, from increasing regulations to stakeholder engagement and supply chain transparency.Learn from Tim and Shari as they share their insights on the challenges organizations face in implementing sustainable practices and balancing short-term profits with long-term sustainability goals. Understand the significance of internal controls in providing a basis for external assurance and building stakeholder trust in reported information.Full Episode Transcript:< Intro > Adam:            Welcome to another episode of Count Me In. In today's episode, joining us are two guest experts. Tim Hedley, who is Executive-in-Residence at Fordham University, and Shari Littan, Director, Corporate Reporting, Research and Thought Leadership at IMA. Our discussion revolves around the importance of internal controls and sustainability reporting. And how they enhance trust, accountability, and reliability of the reported information.  Tim and Shari share insights from the COSO framework. Which was developed to help improve confidence in all types of data and information. The landscape of sustainability reporting is constantly evolving, with shifting regulatory requirements and increased stakeholder expectations. We explore crucial trends; such as the focus on materiality and risk assessments, stakeholder engagement, supply chain transparency, and evolving reporting metrics. Let's get started, with this enlightening conversation.  < Music > Adam:            Shari, Tim, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We're really excited to be talking about COSO, internal control, and everything in that whole ESG world. But just for our listeners, who may be unfamiliar, you could've, probably, have heard the term COSO, or ICSR, and those things before, but maybe you're not familiar with those terms. Maybe, Shari, you could take a little bit of time and define, maybe, a high-level overview of what COSO is, the significant, internal control framework, and the purpose of the new documents. Shari:             I'd be happy to, thanks, Adam, it's great to be here. So COSO stands for Committee of Sponsoring Organizations and it came about in the late 1980s. It is a collaboration of five accountancy and auditing organizations. There's the American Accounting Association, which is an academic organization, primarily. AICPA, everyone is familiar. IMA, where we sit, and we primarily focus on the accountants and finance professionals in business, the in-house folks are ours. Institute of Internal Auditors, and FEI, Financial Executives International. So those five organizations make up COSO. COSO came about in the late 1980s, amid what was then the savings and loans crisis, and there was concern that the profession needed to do better. That we were starting to see major accounting failures, disclosure, litigation, regulation, questions. Are we doing the right things in the profession?" So the five accountancy organizations got together, and they said, "How are we going to resolve this? How are we going to promote trust and accountability in what we do, as a profession?" The focus became on this concept of internal controls, which we'll get to.  So in '92, after that, the COSO, as an organization, produced its first internal control framework. And then we can move forward to 1990s, late 1990s, 2000, the Enron, WorldCom's era, which led to Sarbanes-Oxley. And Sarbanes-Oxley, rather than looking at the substance of what a company needs to disclose, again, looked at the idea of governance process, auditing, and said, "In order to produce financial reports to the markets, you need to focus on your systems and your controls. You need management to speak to it, in your reporting system. You need auditors to address controls." We had the PCAOP. So we have this Sarbanes-Oxley, which created this idea of internal controls over financial reporting. And, although, Sarbanes Oxley didn't specifically say, "You must use the COSO framework." It was considered the best thing around, and it's become the gold standard in how to produce reliable financial or corporate reporting in more general. Now, in 2013, the framework was refreshed, we got a new internal control framework. And what it did, in the 2013 refresh, is it added the idea of non-financial reporting objectives. That was around the same time, about 10 years ago, when we started to see all kinds of sustainability integrated, ESG, reporting frameworks. And, so, though not express, what the framework did, in its refresh, was say "Yes, this is completely applicable to these types of activities and reporting." And, so, that leads us to where we are, today. Where, earlier, in 2023 we issued the internal control over sustainability reporting publication. And what the authors did, in that publication, was we looked at the existing internal control framework and said, "Okay, now we're seeing an acceleration of ESG or sustainability reporting and activities, performance and activities.  And that means we need good information, and that means we need quality information and transparency. Let's look at the COSO Internal Control Framework, and see how we can interpret it and apply it to these new forms of reporting. Adam:            Shari, I think that's a great overview. And, as you mentioned, there's the ever evolving nature of this new type of non-financial reporting, ESG reporting. There are shifts in regulatory compliance. We were just speaking before we started recording how this could change, or that could change, or this regulatory body can make a statement, at this moment, at this time, how this is constantly changing.  And, Tim, maybe, I'll ask you, how do you see this landscape changing? And what should organizations be, particularly, aware of, especially, with the ever evolving nature and things constantly moving? Tim:               Well, Adam, thank you, and thank you for having me here. The sustainability reporting landscape has rapidly changed, particularly, recently, to meet stakeholder expectation, and government regulations. And, Adam, your question could be an entire podcast, or a big section of this podcast if we had that kind of time, but I do see some critical trends, just some of the ones, from my perspective.  I mean, many pe...

Welcome to the Count Me In podcast with your host Adam Larson and special guest Dan DeGolier! In this episode, Adam and Dan, founder and CEO of Ascent CFO Solutions, dive into the fascinating world of AI and its application in the finance and accounting sectors. Discover how AI is enhancing efficiency and reducing errors, while also exploring the potential challenges and ethical considerations it presents. Join us as we explore the evolving landscape of AI in fractional leadership. Tune in now for an engaging discussion you won't want to miss!Full Episode Transcript: Adam:            Welcome back for another exciting episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we have a special guest joining us, Dan DeGolier. The founder and CEO of Ascent CFO Solutions. We start off by exploring current use cases of AI in the industry. Such as coding transactions and streamlining forecasting processes.  But as Dan points out, we're only scratching the surface of what AI can do. The potential for growth and efficiency is immense. But it's important to proceed with caution and be aware of the biases and ethical considerations that come along with it.  Throughout this episode we highlight the evolving role of finance and accounting professionals, in the age of AI, and how they can adapt to leverage its benefits. From bookkeepers, to CFOs, to fractional CFOs, AI has the power to enhance efficiency and transform the way we approach financial management. So grab your headphones, and join us as we uncover the exciting world of AI in accounting. Let's dive in. < Music > Well, Dan, we're so excited to have you on the podcast today, as we're going to talk about AI and fractional leadership. And just to get started, as we think about AI, how is it currently being applied to finance and accounting sectors? Obviously, it does things like enhance efficiency and reduce errors, but how is it being applied in those areas?  Dan:                Yes, thanks for having me on, Adam. It's a pleasure to meet you, pleasure to be here. I think we're just getting started, for one thing. AI, even though it's been around for a while, ChatGPT, GPT 4, and all those things, are relatively new to the mainstream. And, so, a lot of this stuff we're just starting to figure out right now.  Definitely, in the accounting side, we're starting to see some use cases for coding transactions and things like that. I think there are a lot of opportunities in our world, in the finance realm. When it comes to forecasting, to be able to streamline multiple scenarios and make iterations to financial models and forecasts.  I think that's an area that we're starting to see develop. And, then, things like pricing strategy and looking at different ways to price and run different scenarios around that. Using large language models, and data, and being able to bring in data and run multiple scenarios and see what things look like there. I think those are all some areas that we're starting to see.  But, honestly, because it's so early, what is really going to be the biggest use cases, two years from now, is probably something we haven't thought of. Or somebody's thought of but hasn't really been implemented, yet. Adam:            Yes, that's a great point, that we're so early in the generative AI phase that some organizations are adapting quickly, other ones aren't. And software companies are trying to integrate it into there but it's still in the early phases. So our traditional role- Dan:                And it's still prone to errors as well. Adam:            Exactly. Dan:                Yes, we've all read the articles about the lawyer who tried to use it for briefs and got in huge trouble, and the hallucinations are still rampant. So I think proceed with caution, but recognize that it has enormous potential and don't be left behind.  I was going to say, I've heard that it's been compared to if you look at Web 1.0, the emergence of the Internet, and commercial use, that this could be a 10x-type of opportunity. From a growth potential, from an efficiency potential, et cetera, it's just fascinating to me, just how massive this could be, and how life-changing this is. Adam:            Well, and also the bias that's implicit in there, in the AI. Because there are so many biases among how people think, wording, that's out there in the Internet and how it's learning. There's going to be that bias that you have to get over as well. Because it's going to be embedded in there because of how it is societally. Dan:                Correct, yes, I agree with that. I think one other ethical consideration that needs to be taken into account, when you're implementing AI, is things around copyright infringement, and intellectual property, and protection there. I think the chatbots aren't necessarily aware of what's IP and protected and what's not.  And, so, it's important that we take into that, that there's a human overseeing that, and making sure that there's nothing being taken out of context or being utilized improperly. And along the same lines, research is another area. Tax research and other types of accounting research is a place where there is a lot of use cases for AI.  But, again, this is where you need to be very careful around trusting that research and validating that it is accurate. So we don't end up in a situation, where something that's not valid is being utilized. Adam:            It's going to be very difficult to understand what has been verified and what hasn't, and as you're doing research and as you're looking at things online. I imagine new tools are going to have to be developed to verify, "Yes, this is valid." Or "No, it's not." And how do you trust those as you go forward? Dan:                Yes, that's really important, and there are going to be mistakes made. As we start to adopt this, we're going to see mistakes being made. And, as humans, we need to learn from our mistakes and learn from others' mistakes, that's how we evolve. Adam:            Mh-hmm. Do you think that the traditional roles in finance and accounting are going to change because of these? I mean, obviously, they are. But how can we adapt as we go forward? Dan:                Yes, I think, first thing I would suggest is pay attention to what's going on, see what's evolving, see where things are taking it. I think it's going to definitely change the accounting side, the day-to-day transactional stuff. There's a YouTuber out there, Hector Garcia, who has done some demos of how you can plug in a ChatGPT tool into QuickBooks Online, and how ...

Join host Adam Larson and special guest Paul McManus, as they discuss the importance of personal branding in today's accounting and finance industry, and how it can help you stand out from the crowd. Paul is a podcast host, the author of the book “The Short Book Formula” and the co-founder and CEO of More Clients More Fun.  Discover the power of writing and publishing a book as a means to enhance your personal brand and become a thought leader in your field. Explore practical tips and insights on how to effectively communicate your expertise, simplify complex concepts, and engage with both experts and non-experts alike. Don't miss this episode that will empower you to create expert status and level up your career as a financial professional.Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we have a special guest joining us, Paul McManus. To discuss the power of personal branding for accounting and finance professionals. Paul is a podcast host, the author of the book The Short Formula, and the co-founder and CEO of More Clients More Fun.  We'll explore why personal branding is crucial in today's competitive landscape, and how it can elevate your status as an expert in your field. Paul, an accomplished author, with multiple bestsellers on Amazon, will share his insights on how creating a book can enhance your personal brand and establish you as a thought leader. We'll also touch upon the challenges professionals face when approaching the idea of writing a book and how to overcome them. Let's get started. Paul, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast, today. We're really excited to talk about personal branding and becoming better versions of ourselves through that type of work. And, maybe, we can start off by talking about why things like personal branding are, especially, important for today's accounting and finance professionals. Paul:               Definitely. Thank you for having me, I appreciate being here. I think personal branding is one of the things, whether you're a small business owner, or whether you work at a firm, as a professional.  At the end of the day, when you're growing your business, or whether you're looking for promotions and to make a bigger impact in your world. Nothing, well, not nothing, but personal branding can be one of those things that help you differentiate yourself from everybody else.  One of the ways that I, primarily, focus on to help professionals with their personal branding is to help them write and publish a book. Which I know is something, again, I talk to a lot of financial professionals and I ask them if they've considered it, and many have. But it just seems like one of those daunting tasks that it's on someone's bucket list, but they never quite get to.  So, as part of the personal branding question that you asked, I'd love to deep dive, as appropriate, into how a book can really help accountants, and other finance professionals really take their personal brand to the next level. Adam:            Yes, definitely, when you think about writing a book, some people think, "Oh, no, I have to write this thousand-page book, and it's going to take six years, ten years of my life. But if anybody has looked at the show notes for this event, if they've looked at what you do. They've seen you written multiple books and they've been on Amazon bestseller. So how does creating that book really enhance your personal brand and elevate your status? Paul:               Yes, writing a book is one of those things that has a long history that people respect. I think there's really two things that help professionals stand out. One is writing a book, another is public speaking. There is the old quip from Jerry Seinfeld on the public speaking side that if you're at a funeral; would you rather be giving the eulogy or be in the casket? And the joke was, well, most people would rather be in the casket because they're terrified of public speaking.  But I think just the act of getting up and speaking in front of people, is just one of those things that most people are afraid of, and so they respect. It's the same thing for writing a book. It's something that just in our culture, there's a tremendous respect for someone who's put in the work, done the work, and who has written and published a book.  Because it's one of those things that really differentiate yourself from everybody else in the field. It's one of those things that people think about, talk about, and more often than not, never do. And there's a variety of benefits to doing it, personal branding be one of them, which we can go deeper on. And, then, there's also a variety of reasons why people never take that action. So, on the plus side, we want to be clear about why do it.  There's a great Simon Sinek talk about begin with why, and when your why is clear, then, you get that much more clear on the motivation and the how. And, so, let's talk about the why, from multiple ways to think about it.  So, again, if you are one of those professionals that does any work in the capacity, as a business owner. So let's say maybe you're a fractional CFO and you're looking to attract clients. Let's say that you work with clients themselves and, maybe, what you do is more difficult to understand. The ability to articulate your core knowledge through a book, way that is interesting and simplifies it to an outside audience. Especially an outside audience of non-experts, is a very powerful way simply to communicate.  I find that writing a book, it's a personal growth endeavor. Oftentimes you start with a blank page and you think, "Okay, what do I know about this topic?" And after a few minutes, you're like, "Oh, that's it." And, so, you have to say, "Wait a minute, I know more than this." And it really challenges you to think about what you know, and why is that important, and who's interested in that. How can you communicate that in a way that's effective? How can you use stories?  Oftentimes, especially, with accountants and other finance professionals, what I find is that there's a lot of jargon. There's a lot of technical terms. There's a lot of things that they understand implicitly through experience and study, but for a non-expert, they get lost. And, so, it's how do you communicate ideas in such a way that is relatable to whomever you're speaking to?  And, so, throughout that process, and we talked about personal branding a little bit, but it really helps you create leadership skills, communication skills, and those things all come together. And, so, whether you're looking to sell more, get a promotion, or simply be more effective at your job. The act of writing and publishing a book is an amazing vehicle to help supercharge those efforts. Adam:            Mm, yes, it's interesting because when you think about it, if you don't know how to explain what you're doing. If you don't know how to articulate it in a very good way. How can you be that storyteller, be that business partner? Whether you're in a f...

Join host Adam Larson and expert guest AJ Coleman in Count Me In’s latest episode. Get ready to dive into the world of internal control and fraud prevention.  AJ is an author and serves as Vice President, Fraud Manager at Byline Bank. He explores the importance of strong internal controls in detecting and preventing fraud, while sharing real-life examples of common types of fraud and how they're identified and dealt with. Don't miss out on this engaging and eye-opening conversation.Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into the world of fraud and internal control. Joining me is the incredible A. J. Coleman. He is an author, and serves as vice president and fraud manager at Byline Bank. Today, we'll be discussing the importance of strong internal controls, in detecting and preventing fraud, and how organizations can navigate through risks and vulnerabilities. A.J. will share some eye-opening examples of common fraud cases and explain how they are identified and dealt with. So if you want to learn more about the crucial role of internal control in combating fraud, you definitely don't want to miss this episode.  Well, A.J., I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Really excited to talk about internal control, and fraud, and just all the different things you have to do in that world. And I know you're an expert in this field, and I thought that, maybe, you could start by giving some examples of how things like strong internal controls can help by detecting fraud. Since I know you see this every day. A.J.:                Well, great to be here and the opportunity to talk fraud is always rewarding. But, yes, internal controls are really the key, is to be able to identify where there are opportunities or gaps, for the fraudsters to expose an organization. And that's really where the first thing you have to look at is where are we exposed, and what risks that are out there. And from there, you then start crafting those internal controls.●       How do you want them set up? ●       What do you want people's roles to be?●       How should things be escalated?  And there's a lot that we can go into that aspect. But without internal controls, nobody understands what the proper steps are, and how do you get that message to the expert. And in terms of fraud, fraud happens every day, and it happens in places that we least expect it. It could be anything from a personal thing, where somebody steals your information unknowingly. All the way up to somebody depositing a fictitious check in the ATM deposit, knowing that it's fictitious. And without internal controls, how do we detect this? How do we maneuver through those processes to, actually, review these transactions? And, then, at the end, do we need to escalate this up through leadership? Does it need to have a certain suspicious activity report filing? And without those internal controls in place is a free fall. Adam:            That makes a lot of sense, and it begs the question, chicken versus egg, do you have strong internal controls unless you've experienced fraud? Or can you have good internal controls, if you've never experienced fraud? What comes first in some cases? A.J.:                Well, a lot of depends on the leaders, and the type of the organization and how they set up their infrastructure. Some organizations are very passive and they are reactive, in terms of waiting for things to happen. Other organizations are saying, "Well, you know what? We're going to be active in this. We're going to be proactive." And a lot of that has to do with that leadership quality. In my opinion, from a fraud expert, you always want to work on the preventive. Because you can always build something, and then do your own risk assessments to determine if there are gaps exposed. Then work together to figure out how to close up those gaps. Instead, of just leaving it open-ended and waiting for the fraud to happen. And a lot of times people just sit because it's easier to wait till something happen, rather than be proactive and build something. Adam:            Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Being proactive does seem like the better option, but it all comes down to leadership and those things. Maybe, we could circle back to what are some of the most common types of fraud that you see in your line of work, maybe, there are some examples. I know you can't name any names, but, maybe, there are some examples you can give and how it was identified and dealt with. A.J.:                Check fraud, is number one on the list. I mean, you would think that in today's world, that we would be doing more electronic payments. But there are just amount of checks that go out on a daily basis. And, sometimes, people just it's easier to write checks, it's easier to send them through the system. But I will tell you the post office is compromised. We are seeing a lot of checks intercepted by third party individuals. Whether it's the postal workers themselves or they're in a partnership, maybe, with the fraudster or they've been approached, and we read things on the news where postal workers are held at gunpoint, their keys are taken, for mailbox. And all these fraudsters are looking for is just checks, where they can either wash them or they can do a forged endorsement on the back hoping that nobody will notice that. Check fraud, is unfortunately not going away, and in the last two years I've seen a significant increase. And there are certain controls that you can put in place, not only for the banks, or the institutions, or the companies, but also for the customers themselves. Positive Pay is really important, where you can look to see if you can be protected and be notified, if there's a counterfeit check that gets presented. You can do a payee Positive Pay, that looks at the payee information to see if it's been washed.  Alternatively, go with the electronic. It's a lot easier on the cash flow, but you also don't have to worry about a paper copy. So check fraud is definitely number one. The other thing we're seeing a lot is what we call Business Email Compromise, BEC, as it's known. And what this is, is with fraudsters, they penetrate into an organization. Whether it's through a phishing attack or other metrics, and what they do is they clone the server once they're in the organization. And they operate as if they are an authoritative figure and emailing different groups, different business units.As well as, maybe, even the financial institution changing payment information or making requests for ACH or wires to go out. And what happens once the clone server is done, the primary customer or the vendor has no idea. And the fraudsters are the ones that are letting certain emails go through, intercepting other emails. So, a lot of times, these customers have no idea that they've been compromised, as well, as they just quickly change that information and say, "Hey, we need to pay this person X amount of dollars." But nob...

Join host Adam Larson as he sits down with the brilliant entrepreneur and CEO of WTS Enterprises, Josh Fonger. In this episode, Josh delves into the captivating topic of the systems mindset for entrepreneurs and business owners. Uncover the secrets behind working on your business rather than in it and discover how this shift can drive exponential growth and success. Josh, with his wealth of knowledge and experience, reveals how business owners can streamline and optimize their processes, increasing profits and reducing time. If you're ready to take your business to the next level, don't miss this dynamic conversation with Josh Fonger.Full Transcript:< Intro > Adam:            Welcome back to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and I'm thrilled to have our special guest with us today, Josh Fonger. Josh is an experienced entrepreneur and the CEO of WTS Enterprises. In today's episode, Josh will enlighten us on the crucial difference between working in your business versus working on it. And why this shift is essential for growth, particularly, for business owners and entrepreneurs.  We'll discuss how getting caught up by day-to-day operations can hinder business growth, innovations, and long-term vision. Josh is an expert in helping companies navigate this challenge, by utilizing the Work the System, or WTS, method. He emphasizes the importance of backfilling our current tasks and responsibilities.  So we can jump ahead and lead our organizations effectively. But it's not just about the concept. Josh provides practical insight, on how to take action and implement a systematic approach to run a business. So get ready and gain some valuable insights, tips, and strategies. As we explore the power of a systems mindset, with our incredible guest. Let's dive right in. < Music > Adam:             Josh, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Really excited to talk about entrepreneurs, and that systems mindset that you talk about. But to get started, maybe, we can start by discussing the difference of working in your business versus working on it, and why that's essential for growth, especially, for business owners and entrepreneurs? Josh:               Yes, and this is not a new concept. I think people have been aware of this, heard this, for decades. Popularized by The E Myth, Michael Gerber's, bestselling book. And the key thing that I do is help companies, actually, make that happen. The big the big issue, of course, whether it's a manager, an owner, or a CEO, is that they are doing the work as a technician, instead of leading the work or growing the organization.  And, so, that's the key thing, is that if you're doing the work, then no one is doing the business growth, no one's doing the innovation, no one's doing the expansion. No one's casting the vision for the next series of years. Instead, they're talking about the next five minutes, and maybe the next five hours, and that's really the issue is that companies stay stuck when they're looking short term.  And, so, what I focus in on is helping, mechanically, because it's more than just an idea. They need to think differently, but then they, actually, have to take different actions. Is help business owners and leaders take those actions, in a methodical, mechanical way, so that they're backfilling what they're currently doing. Because you can't just jump ahead somebody's got to do the work.  And, so, there needs to be a way, which we call working the system, or the WTS method, a way to backfill what you're currently doing. So you can jump ahead and lead the organization. And, the idea, again, simple enough, work on the business instead of in the business. But, mechanically, and infrastructure-wise, to do that takes some heavy lifting, some rolling up of the sleeves. That's what we want all of our clients to get is that, there's a process you can take. And if you work the process, you work your systems, that freedom and that growth will become a mechanical reality. Adam:            So maybe we can dig in in a little bit more into this work, this system method that you're talking about. I know that you have a book, that we'll put a link in the show notes for everybody, maybe, you can talk a little bit more about that. How does that enable your business owners to do things like increase profits, reduce time? I know those are a lot of things that you speak about, maybe we can talk a little more detail on that. Josh:               Yes, so everyone uses all their time, and everyone, essentially, uses all of their resources, and so you're bound by those. And, so, the way to expand your business, expand your life, is to do a better job with those resources. And, so, working the system is all about getting more efficient. And, so, how do we do that? Well, we help people not just react to the problems of their business or the stimuli that's coming their way. But instead, take charge or take control of the systems that they know are going to keep happening.  So instead of just reacting to a phone call coming in. Instead, manage or control that system, so that you and your team know how to answer the call, to be the best with it. And let's just say answering the phone is one of 300 different systems that maybe your company has. And instead of winging each system and following it the way you've always done it before.  If you take the time to look at each system, as a separate entity, and then figure out what is the best way to make it the fastest, the lowest cost, the highest efficiency, the highest profitability. What are the ways we can optimize each of those little pieces, which can be done if they're written down and looked at, objectively? You're going to find that the assemblage of those separate pieces are going to result, we're talking to math folks here, accountants, the result is going to be a much better business. It's not going to be surprise when your company is running way better, way more profitably, when the separate pieces, that make up your business, are each improved by 5%, 10%, 20%. Each of these pieces are then going to equate to a multiple of what you ever thought possible. Because we work with companies, everyone's already working hard. Everyone's already doing their best.  And, so, we let them know, "You have to work differently, if you're going to expand beyond your current best." Because everyone's already trying their best. Everyone's already working hard, everyone's already maxed out.  So knowing that plateau is already reached, in the organizations we work with, the goal is, "Okay, well, now we're going to have to work differently. We're going to have to work in a different way." And that's going to be working on these separate systems. Adam:            So a lot of times when you say the word systems, people think these are different softwares that I'm using, or different things like that. But you're talking systems as more of all the processes that...

Looking for expert advice on fractional leadership? Look no further! Join host Adam Larson and guest Ben Wolf as they dive into the world of fractional executives. Ben is the founder and CEO for Wolf's Edge Integrators, a premier fractional COO organization. From fractional CFOs and CMOs to COOs and beyond, Ben will share his insights and experiences on how to hire, manage, and maximize the impact of fractional leaders. Get ready for engaging discussions, practical tips, and real-world examples that will revolutionize how you approach leadership in your business. Don't miss out and listen today!Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson. And in today's episode, we have special guest, Ben Wolf. Joining us to discuss the fascinating concept of fractional leadership. Ben is the founder and CEO of Wolf's Edge Integrators. A premier fractional COO organization. Today we'll explore the key factors to consider when hiring fractional executives. The benefits they bring to businesses, and even dive into some real-life examples. So get ready to uncover the power of fractional leadership, and how it can revolutionize your organization. Ben, thank you so much for coming in on the podcast. We're really excited to talk about fractional executive leadership, today. And I thought maybe we could start off by maybe you can share some experience, some of your own experiences. That led you to discover this concept of fractional executive leadership, and how it changed your approach to leadership in an organization. Ben:                Sure, absolutely. Well, Adam, first of all, thank you for the opportunity to share about this topic. Obviously something I'm very passionate about. And I first came across it when I was in this business that I first grew up in, entrepreneurially. I used to be a corporate bankruptcy attorney. And after I left that, I helped build this entrepreneurial business from startup. Built most of its operations, it was a healthcare startup, until we had over 130 people and we were the largest healthcare agency of our category, in the entire state of New York.  it was really quite a journey. And ways into that, what we and the other members of the leadership team realized is that all of us were figuring out this business for the first time. It was the first time any of us had been running a business of our size before.  I mean, we'd been employees in larger corporate businesses or cogs in the machine, at various places. But the first time, actually, running a business of our size before. I mean, let's say when we're 50, 75, 100 people, we had never done this before.  And, so, everything that we're doing, we're reinventing the wheel, at a certain point. We hired an EOS implementer, to help us use this management system called Entrepreneurial Operating System. So we tried to get help and consultants, usually, just felt like they just put together some big report and spent dozens and dozens of hours with us, and members of our team, and just would deliver this report and say, "Good luck." Now, I just call that drive-by consulting.  What I just realized is, you know what, sometimes that's what you need. But, sometimes, you need somebody that's, actually, on your team that's, actually, part of the business and that's done it before. That's not just figuring it out for the first time like we were. And, so, we started looking at hiring for full-time roles and, sometimes, either we were just priced out. These people are like 300 thousand, didn't necessarily make sense for this role. Or we realized we need people who've done this before, and we didn't have it. And, so, it wasn't really till after I had left there, and I was a COO at a smaller business after that. And, then, I really discovered this concept of a fractional executive. Where you can actually get an executive on your team. That's not the trauma if it doesn't work out, or the cost of 300 thousand plus bonus, plus benefits, and everything else, of a full-time executive, who's done this before. And, also, maybe, somebody that you might be worried might be too corporate for your environment, and you could actually do that with a fractional executive. You can get someone that's done it before. Whether it's a CFO, or a COO, or CMO, CTO, CIO, CHRO, whatever, something else, and get them on. They're part of your leadership team, they're part of your management team meetings. They have direct reports within the business. And, so, it's like the best of both worlds. You have a high-level person that's done it before, they're on your team. They get to know your business better because they're actually part of your team on an ongoing basis. Not just consulting, "Hey, good luck." But actually managing the people and managing that department, but just doing so on a part time basis. So I just became aware of that and, then, ultimately, started to do it myself. First as a solo practitioner, as a chief operating officer, fractional COO. And, then, ultimately, started building a team, which I have now. But that's sort of the experience I went through. It was what I learned in that business growing up, and not having someone like that, who'd done it before. That made me aware of this solution, as I learned more over time. Adam:            Yes, that's so interesting. Because if you're reading any business application, if you're reading any articles, if you're reading anything in any industry, around business, you hear this term fractional leadership. And, I think, we may have jumped the gun. So maybe we can start by defining what is fractional leadership and how does it differentiate? Because if you're listening to this and you've, maybe, heard this term thrown around. And people, probably, assume, like you were saying, maybe, it's like a consultant kind of thing, but it seems like it's more than that. Ben:                Yes, that's a great question. I basically define a fractional executive or a fractional leader, as the same as a regular executive. Because the regular executive, if you have your CMO, or your CRO, or your COO, CFO, CTO, CHRO, whatever, they're responsible for a function of the business. The CMO was responsible for the marketing function of this business. Not one project, but the marketing of the business. The outcomes, the people, everything, just the marketing function of the business. CFO, and a lot of people listening to this, the audience, maybe CFOs or other roles in the finance, or accounting departments. And CFO is your CFO, they're responsible for your P&L, and finding savings, and forecasting, and strategy, just like a full-time CFO. The only difference between a full-time and a fractional CFO is that they're there fractionally, and they're part time.  So it enables you to afford someone in that role, that is maybe more experienced than you could afford on a full-time basis. So if you don't need someone with a tremendous amount of experience that's been CFO for decades, at multiple businesses, or a CMO at various businesses. If you don't need that, then, fine, you can hire a CMO a...

In this episode, host Adam Larson sits down with Ashish Gupta, CFO North America at Reckitt, to explore the CFO's role in driving a sustainable earning model for businesses. Discover how Ashish's diverse leadership experience across continents has influenced his approach to sustainable growth and learn valuable insights on strategy, transformation, and execution. Get ready to expand your financial knowledge and gain actionable tips for driving success in your organization. Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Today we are joined by Ashish Gupta, CFO, North America, at Reckitt. Ashish has worked across various continents, and his international experience has greatly influenced his approach to developing a sustainable earnings model. Ashish shares valuable insights on the importance of sustainable leadership. The link between strategy, transformation and execution, and the need for clear communication and business transformations. Join us as we delve into the CFO's role, in driving sustainable growth and empowering teams.  Ashish, we're so excited to have you on the podcast, today. And you've had extensive leadership experience, across various continents. And maybe you could share with our audience, how has this international experience influenced your approach to a sustainable earnings model? Ashish:           Hi, Adam, I am actually privileged to be talking to you, today. Yes, I've been lucky to have experience in various continents. But I must say that it has also been one of the challenges that I have faced. It has not been easy, but it's also been quite enriching and rewarding. It has taught me that there is no one-size-fits-all approach, either to leadership, or to developing a sustainable earnings model, or managing teams.  Well, my greatest learnings have been two, in this situation. The first one, has been that leadership must be situational, and it must be relevant to the place and the situation you are in. And there could be different leadership styles that you could adopt. For example, you could be empathetic, but at the same time be decisive. You could be collaborative, but be very unambiguous. You could come across as vulnerable, but still be authentic about it. And that's what people appreciate, and that's what brings your whole self to work, really. The second one is you also need to know, and as I said, that there's no one-size-fits all approach. You also need to know when to make a switch from one style to another, depending on how your team is reacting to it. For example, sometimes, we say that it's best to give feedback to people, at that moment. But that may not be the right approach every time. Because, sometimes, we just want people to get over the emotions and have a calmer head. Before you go back and say, "Hey, look, in this instance, we could have done it a little bit differently." And, maybe, the people are more receptive, at that point of time, when that heat has settled down and they are more calm.  So I would say that, it has taught me, also, because I've worked in different countries, different cultures. But people are people, so people are the same. They've got emotions, they like to be heard, they like to be respected, and that is universal. That does not change. Adam:            Yes, the human experience is universal, no matter where you go and, I think, people forget that. Because they want to divide each other because of this or that, and the human experience is so universal, like you just said. And as you're going out through your career, I'm sure you've hit different things like transformation, strategy, execution. You've had to hit all these different things in your different leadership roles. How has that set of skills supported you, in driving success in the different organizations you've been a part of? Ashish:           Well, Adam, you've just hit on three magic words in that. Which is strategy, transformation, and execution. And I think most of the organizations struggle with the relationship between these three to their teams. Because you cannot have a transformation before you have got a clear strategy, about how do you want to drive the business. And transformation is an outcome of your strategy, and execution is implementing that strategy and transformation.  So, very often, teams, in the business, fail to see the link of the transformation that is, sometimes, being led by global teams, to the company's strategy. And, then, it becomes even more muddy when it comes to execution. And I love this quote from Einstein, I'm not a science buff, but I love what he said. He said that, "If you can't explain to a six-year-old, then you don't understand it." And I think it's very true. And it may sound complex strategy, transformation, execution, but organizations need to keep it very simple. Because if people don't get it, then it doesn't reflect in teams not interested in executing a project or program. And it may sound something similar to Silent Resignation, that we talked about today, so people are not just interested. With my experience, I have had experience, and I'm lucky to have experience on both sides. I've led global transformation programs from the corporate side, and I've been at the receiving end, and large markets of those transformation programs. I've always wanted to understand the strategy behind a transformation. Why are we implementing a project? What's the corporate strategy in it? What do we get out of it? What do I get out of it?  And that helps me put in the right execution force and resources behind it. Adam:            So, you're speaking about leading transformation into the finance function. One of the times, I was reading about in a recent article you wrote, was the Group Transformation Finance Director at Reckitt. How is that experience? What things did you learn from that particular experience, that helped translate into what you're currently working on? Ashish:           Well, it has been immensely useful to my learning, really, Adam. And, normally, if you see in any organization, there are about two to three centers of gravity in an organization. The first one really is the corporate headquarters; that drives the vision, purpose, and strategy for the company. The second one, in many instances, is the geography or business unit headquarter, depending on how the organization is set up. And the third one, which I believe is the most important one, are the markets where the business actually gets delivered and, sometimes, there's a confusion.But it's so true, that the transformation office always works for the markets to bring in that change and shift. In my transformation roles, I was leading the selection and implementation of certain cutting-edge projects and tools, in various areas. Planning, forecasting, controllership and compliance, productivity. And, then, I'm currently working in the biggest market, which is U.S. So it has helped me to understand that once you understand the strategy be...

In a rapidly evolving accounting landscape, how can professionals demonstrate their skills and experience to stand out? Certifications! In this episode, veteran accounting educator and President of HOCK International, Brian Hock outlines the immense value of professional certifications for career-long growth and development. Learn how certifications like the CMA provide a standardized body of knowledge to showcase specialized expertise. Discover how the right certifications position you for success as technology and demands transform. Gain perspective on certifications as a strategic investment in your future, increasing opportunities and earning potential over the length of your career. Brian draws on extensive experience preparing accounting students and professionals for certifications to offer advice on overcoming barriers like cost or study time. He provides encouragement that passing rigorous exams like the CMA, while requiring dedication, is very achievable with the right preparation and planning.If you're looking to get strategic and maximize your career potential in accounting, this episode is a must-listen! You’ll come away motivated to pursue professional certifications and equipped with insights to choose the right certifications for your goals.Full Episode Transcript: Adam:            Today on Count Me In, we have a great episode in store. Our guest is Brian Hock, president of Hock International and an experienced accounting educator. Who has been teaching finance and accounting certifications for over two decades. Brian provides keen insights into the value of professional certifications like the CMA, and how they can benefit accounting professionals throughout their career. He discusses the importance of certifications in demonstrating specialized knowledge and skills, as well as how certifications, like the CMA, help professionals stay current in a rapidly changing business landscape. Brian offers advice for overcoming barriers to obtaining certifications. Emphasizing the long term career rewards, that make certifications a smart investment. With technologies and an evolving talent gap impacting the accounting field, Brian's perspective is extremely timely. Now, let's welcome Brian Hock. Adam:            Well, Brian, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast today. And, just to jump right in, can you share with us, with our listeners, why are certifications so critical, especially in the field of accounting? Brian:             Well, first, Adam, thanks for having me. It's great to be with you. The question of certifications is one that is very important for somebody's career. And the way I explain it is that there are however many thousands and thousands of universities around the world, and they all have different quality of an accounting program, accounting professors, the classes that they teach.  And, so, just because somebody has an accounting degree, we aren't really in a position to know what that person knows. What they studied, how they studied, how well they did. But a certification is a specific body of knowledge. A specific syllabus that is the same for everybody who takes it anywhere in the world. And, so, the term certificate, it's a certification because it's that standardized test that everybody who's passed it has passed the same content. And, so, it's a person's way of showing what they know separate from their university. Because a lot of universities may be very good universities, but they're not known outside the city, the region that they're in. And nobody outside that city or region is aware that the person has such a strong accounting education or finance education. But a certification shows that. Adam:            It does, and, I think, we're hearing that a lot more. Especially, in the world of accounting, with so many different things happening. So many new technologies coming out there. One of the biggest things we're hearing about is things like the talent gap. So how are certifications helping bridge that talent gap, especially in the finance and accounting sector? Brian:             Well, a good certification helps bridge that by staying current, and this is something that I know CMA does. I've been teaching CMA for almost 25 years, and it's a number of syllabuses that I've taught. Because what accounting and finance professionals need to know, what they're using on their job, has changed over time. And, so, with IMA doing such a good job of keeping the CMA syllabus up to date and relevant. That is part of that talent gap being addressed, by making certain that the people that come out through CMA have those skills. And the obvious example is AI wasn't in the syllabus 20 years ago, but it was put into the syllabus in 2020. And, so, technology is a big one, as technology changes. As the skill set that people need to use that technology changes, data analytics, visualization, are in the syllabus now, but they weren't ten years ago. And, so, a certification that keeps its syllabus current addresses that gap by making certain that the people who come out of that certification have those current, and practical, and relevant skills that are needed in the market today. Adam:            Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Now, you have been in this accounting space, in the certification space, teaching people certifications for a while. How have you seen that demand change over the years, and what trends you see us going towards in the future? Brian:             I think one of the things that's happened, and continues to happen, is more and more what I would call a specialty certification. You take something like CMA, and it's accounting and finance, at a fairly broad scope. It's not specific to receivables, or payables, or bookkeeping, or a specific type of banking. But now you have certifications that are specifically about fraud examining. You have certifications that are about a controller position or a specific element of a business. And those are wonderful certifications for people that are a little further along in their career. That have some experience and know what it is that they're going into. But when we talk about young people just starting their career. The certification that they need is one that's going to keep as many doors as possible open for them, as long as possible. And when I talk to a university student, I say, "Well, if you know that you want to go into investment banking, then that's the certification you need to pursue." "If you know that you want to go into some particularly niche area, then, find that specific niche certification."                        But most people, until they've been five or 10 years in their career, don't know what they want to do for the next 20 years. And, so, there are niche certifications that are developing, which are for later in somebody's career after they know where they're going. But we still have the same certifications around th...

In today's episode, host Adam Larson is joined by the esteemed authors of the 2023 Curt Verschoor Ethics Feature of the Year titled "The Value of Civility" - Amanda Marcy and Doug Parker. Get ready as they delve deep into the importance of civility in the workplace and its connection to professional ethics and ethical standards.Did you know that even seemingly inconsequential or inconsiderate words can violate workplace norms? In this fascinating conversation, Amanda and Doug shed light on various aspects of civility, including its impact on workplace morale, productivity, and employee commitment. They also explore the role of leaders in promoting a culture of civility and providing guidelines for employee conduct.Through insightful discussions and real-world examples, you'll gain a profound understanding of how civility not only enhances workplace harmony but also influences ethical decision-making. So whether you're a leader aiming to foster a respectful environment or an employee dealing with an uncivil boss, this episode will equip you with the tools to navigate challenging situations. Tune in today!Full Episode Transcript: Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. Today, I'm thrilled to have Doug Parker, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Western Carolina University. And Amanda Marcy, Assistant Professor of Accounting at the University of Scranton on today's show. They are authors of the award winning article, The Value of Civility. Which examines the important relationships between ethics, professional standards, and civil behavior in the workplace. Doug and Amanda will share insightful perspectives from their research, on how a culture of incivility can negatively impact organizations. What leaders can do to promote civility, and advice for handling uncivil bosses or co-workers. Their expertise provides a crucial framework for maintaining ethical principles, while nurturing a respectful and productive work environment.  Doug and Amanda's thought-provoking article underscores why self-awareness, open communication, and thoughtful leadership are vital for organizations seeking to uphold integrity. I'm excited to dive into these critical issues with them. Please join me in welcoming Doug and Amanda to the show. Adam:            Well, Amanda and Doug, I'm really excited to have you on the podcast today. You, guys, are the authors of an article called The Value of Civility, which is the Curt Verschoor, Article of the Year. And we're really excited to talk about that. And, so, maybe we can start off by explaining how civility in the workplace is related to professional ethics, and the ethical principles and standards. And we're going to be talking a lot about ethics and standards, today. But maybe we can start a little bit about maybe how civility works and maybe what is civility. Because it's not a word we hear every day in every workplace. Doug:              Well, it's definitely not something you hear every day, but it's something you witness every day. Especially when you watch media or any news outlets, you'll see incivility at its best. But the basic concept there is it's, basically, an exchange of seemingly inconsequential or inconsiderate words, that violate the conventional norms of workplace conduct. In other words, it's not, necessarily, direct attacks. It's more of texting on your cell phone while someone's trying to convey a point or real low intensity behavior meant to harm others, without maybe even recognizing that you're doing it. Sometimes it can be words that we say that can harm others. Derogatory comments, ignoring their opinions, belittling their opinions, I think, is a big part of incivility. And we do witness it quite a bit in everyday society. Hopefully not in everyday workplace society, but you see it a lot in terms of society. Go to the counter and just watch people do their orders. Where something's done wrong or not as quick as they think, and you'll see those uncivil acts begin to take place in there. Any additional thoughts on that, Amanda? Amanda:        I would say one thing to remember is that ethics contributes to how, like Doug said, we treat each other on a daily basis. So civility, at its heart, focuses on honesty, fairness, self-control, and prudence. Therefore, if we don't have civility, then we can never truly act ethically.Doug:              It definitely requires to be mindful of a place, time, and how you speak. I think we must concentrate on what we say and how we say it. So I found this neat, little, article by Joan Dubinsky, from Clemson University, and she stated that, "Civility and ethics are cousins, they're not twins." In other words, they're not the identical same thing. In other words, you can be civil and still act unethically. So you can take an unethical course, but do it very civil. So in the South we say, "Bless your heart" that's uncivil words. It's meant as a derogatory term, but it's done in a very civil manner. So you can act in an unethical manner and still act civilly. However, you can't be uncivil and be ethical, at the same time. So it doesn't work both ways. So if you're uncivil, then, you're definitely not acting civil or ethically toward others. Treating other with respect and care is really foundational to ethical leadership. Leading in a manner that respects the rights and dignities of others. Adam:            Mh-hmm, yes, it sounds like everybody should be listening to this conversation. Especially if we look at just how people treat each other in the streets, in Twitter, to each other, and how they talk to each other anywhere. This is a wider conversation, than just the workplace. But if we look at the workplace, how can that lack of a civility affect a professional workplace. If we don't have those things? I think you've kind of covered that. But if we look at just a workplace, how can it affect if we don't have those things? Amanda:        One thing to consider is it will, obviously, break down workplace harmony. Because you could have employees attacking each other, I don't want to say physically attacking each other. But attacking each other, maybe they're physically attacking each other, I don't know. Either subtly or intentionally which, again, can result in low employee morale, decreased productivity, stuff of that nature. It could also result, in the end of the day, of employees having less organizational commitment. So they may be more apt to leave the firm just because they're not comfortable being there anymore, in that type of environment. Doug:              Yes, and if you really read the paper and look at some of the comments, so I'll go to that, it says that, "The impact of incivility, it makes you less motivated to do a good job or get a job done as fast as possible." Well, in that are you acting in the most ethical manner? I mean, if your motivation to do a good job, that's not really ethical, especially, for your clients or for your employer in that.

The future of accounting is here, and it's automated! In the latest episode of Count Me In, we unravel the world of accounting automation, AI, and the exciting changes that technology is bringing to the industry. From enhanced efficiency and productivity to the ethics and potential challenges of integrating artificial intelligence, this episode covers it all. Our expert guest, Jesse Rubenfeld, CEO and Founder of FinOptimal, will discuss the way accounting is being transformed, the new skills professionals need to master, and the fascinating possibilities that full automation offers. Tune in, level up, and discover what the future of accounting holds!Connect with our presenter:www.finoptimal.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/jesserubenfeld/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome, listeners, to Count Me In. Your go-to destination for insights into the future of finance and accounting. Today, we have a special guest with us, Jesse Rubenfeld, CEO and founder of FinOptimal. He is an expert in accounting automation and AI. We delve into a conversation that may redefine how you perceive your profession. How is automation shaping the accounting landscape? What are the new skills that financial professionals must adopt? And what does the full automation mean for traditional jobs in the field? Sit back and join us in this exciting journey, as we explore the transformation of accounting in the age of automation. **** Well, Jesse, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast, and today we're going to be talking about automation and accounting. And to start off, maybe, at a high level, we can talk a little bit about how has automation really impacted the accounting and finance industry, and what benefits has it really brought to it? Jesse:              Well, I think it's really been a benefit to the profession, that's the headline. It's taken it from a place where there was a lot of manual block and tackle. To an elevated role where the accountant, the finance professional, can be a thought partner and spend most of their time analyzing and adding value to the message that they provide to management, to the CFO, to investors, to whoever it is. Because they're spending less time managing spreadsheets, or uploading things, or doing data entry, and more time being smart. Adam:            Yes, they have more time to focus on other things. Maybe we can talk about what are the specific kinds of automation, that are really impacting those operations. You mentioned some things that are taking us off of spreadsheets. But are there other things that are really impacting it? Jesse:              Well, in this situation I like to differentiate between accounting practice automation and accounting automation. Accounting practice automation involves task management workflow. Facilitating review and approval of work papers, tracking time spent on clients. It benefits the accounting firms, but it doesn't, drastically, increase capacity. And it's only beneficial for internal accounting teams, at a certain size. Now contrast that with accounting automation, which involves calculating and recording journal entries, reconciling transactions, generating reporting. This benefits accounting firms and their clients directly. It increases capacity for firms, and it increases speed and accuracy so the clients aren't sitting around waiting for answers.  Internal accounting teams can benefit from this early on. One person can benefit from this. One person can do the job of five, whereas it's unlikely they'd use accounting practice automation in a one-person finance team. We also like to distinguish between automation and automation assisted. Automation assisted means it's faster than fully manual, but it's still manual at lots of parts. Whereas automated means one event triggers all of the subsequent actions, automatically. And I like to illustrate this with a side-by-side example. Okay, let's say you're using HubSpot, the CRM, and QuickBooks Online. You close a sale, you have to invoice for the deal and then you have to account for it correctly. And deals, sometimes, have different payment terms. "I'm going to pay all up front, I'm going to pay monthly." And they have different agreement lengths; annual, quarterly, month to month. An automation-assisted process looks like this; a deal is marked closed, one. Accounting gets an email, they fill out the details in a spreadsheet that contains a revenue waterfall schedule. They make sure the formulas are correct and then they copy down through all of the columns, et cetera. And then once a month they go book an entry in QBO. Whereas automated, fully automated, means the deal is marked closed, one, in HubSpot. Data flows from the CRM to QBO automatically. The invoice is sent, automatically, and the invoice is coded in a way that the revenue can, automatically, be recognized in the appropriate periods. That's what we're doing for our clients, full automation. Does that make sense? Adam:            Yes, that makes a lot of sense. And, so, as you're describing those two things, the full automation is almost eliminating traditional jobs that have been in the finance function. So when you were talking about this full automation. There are new skill sets that are involved that are needed for it, and you've seen lots of articles. But maybe we can talk a little bit about that. What are some new skills that accountants are going to need, going into the future? Because full automation is on its way, in a lot of the functions. Jesse:              Totally. Again, the headline here is it's elevating the high performers of yesterday. So that today they can do more, better what they're already doing. In terms of new skills, it comes down to more systems and data analysis. SQL, for example, in our case, Python, if you really want to go crazy. I long ago went crazy. But I think that in the past, somebody who could do the higher level work of managing, of communicating financial pictures to important stakeholders like the CFO, the CEO, investors, they would do that, but they'd spend a lot of time preparing for those things. It would be a major event to get ready for a board meeting. And the amount of time that it took to do that right, was a barrier to entry of competitors for their job. Whereas now they don't have to spend that time preparing for it. Meaning they can use automation to do a much better job, of keeping things ready for the board meeting in real time, all the time. But it also means that it's not as hard for someone to come along with the same skills and replace them. Because they no longer have the luxury of designing their own really convoluted, excessively complicated process, that another skilled accountant can't come in and replace. So it's a double-edged sword. But, overall, it's making everybody more productive and therefore is good for business and the accountant. Adam:            Yes, it is good for business because it helps your bottom line, it helps get things done more efficiently. But I can imagine that changi...