Count Me In®

Looking for expert advice on fractional leadership? Look no further! Join host Adam Larson and guest Ben Wolf as they dive into the world of fractional executives. Ben is the founder and CEO for Wolf's Edge Integrators, a premier fractional COO organization. From fractional CFOs and CMOs to COOs and beyond, Ben will share his insights and experiences on how to hire, manage, and maximize the impact of fractional leaders. Get ready for engaging discussions, practical tips, and real-world examples that will revolutionize how you approach leadership in your business. Don't miss out and listen today!Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson. And in today's episode, we have special guest, Ben Wolf. Joining us to discuss the fascinating concept of fractional leadership. Ben is the founder and CEO of Wolf's Edge Integrators. A premier fractional COO organization. Today we'll explore the key factors to consider when hiring fractional executives. The benefits they bring to businesses, and even dive into some real-life examples. So get ready to uncover the power of fractional leadership, and how it can revolutionize your organization. Ben, thank you so much for coming in on the podcast. We're really excited to talk about fractional executive leadership, today. And I thought maybe we could start off by maybe you can share some experience, some of your own experiences. That led you to discover this concept of fractional executive leadership, and how it changed your approach to leadership in an organization. Ben:                Sure, absolutely. Well, Adam, first of all, thank you for the opportunity to share about this topic. Obviously something I'm very passionate about. And I first came across it when I was in this business that I first grew up in, entrepreneurially. I used to be a corporate bankruptcy attorney. And after I left that, I helped build this entrepreneurial business from startup. Built most of its operations, it was a healthcare startup, until we had over 130 people and we were the largest healthcare agency of our category, in the entire state of New York.  it was really quite a journey. And ways into that, what we and the other members of the leadership team realized is that all of us were figuring out this business for the first time. It was the first time any of us had been running a business of our size before.  I mean, we'd been employees in larger corporate businesses or cogs in the machine, at various places. But the first time, actually, running a business of our size before. I mean, let's say when we're 50, 75, 100 people, we had never done this before.  And, so, everything that we're doing, we're reinventing the wheel, at a certain point. We hired an EOS implementer, to help us use this management system called Entrepreneurial Operating System. So we tried to get help and consultants, usually, just felt like they just put together some big report and spent dozens and dozens of hours with us, and members of our team, and just would deliver this report and say, "Good luck." Now, I just call that drive-by consulting.  What I just realized is, you know what, sometimes that's what you need. But, sometimes, you need somebody that's, actually, on your team that's, actually, part of the business and that's done it before. That's not just figuring it out for the first time like we were. And, so, we started looking at hiring for full-time roles and, sometimes, either we were just priced out. These people are like 300 thousand, didn't necessarily make sense for this role. Or we realized we need people who've done this before, and we didn't have it. And, so, it wasn't really till after I had left there, and I was a COO at a smaller business after that. And, then, I really discovered this concept of a fractional executive. Where you can actually get an executive on your team. That's not the trauma if it doesn't work out, or the cost of 300 thousand plus bonus, plus benefits, and everything else, of a full-time executive, who's done this before. And, also, maybe, somebody that you might be worried might be too corporate for your environment, and you could actually do that with a fractional executive. You can get someone that's done it before. Whether it's a CFO, or a COO, or CMO, CTO, CIO, CHRO, whatever, something else, and get them on. They're part of your leadership team, they're part of your management team meetings. They have direct reports within the business. And, so, it's like the best of both worlds. You have a high-level person that's done it before, they're on your team. They get to know your business better because they're actually part of your team on an ongoing basis. Not just consulting, "Hey, good luck." But actually managing the people and managing that department, but just doing so on a part time basis. So I just became aware of that and, then, ultimately, started to do it myself. First as a solo practitioner, as a chief operating officer, fractional COO. And, then, ultimately, started building a team, which I have now. But that's sort of the experience I went through. It was what I learned in that business growing up, and not having someone like that, who'd done it before. That made me aware of this solution, as I learned more over time. Adam:            Yes, that's so interesting. Because if you're reading any business application, if you're reading any articles, if you're reading anything in any industry, around business, you hear this term fractional leadership. And, I think, we may have jumped the gun. So maybe we can start by defining what is fractional leadership and how does it differentiate? Because if you're listening to this and you've, maybe, heard this term thrown around. And people, probably, assume, like you were saying, maybe, it's like a consultant kind of thing, but it seems like it's more than that. Ben:                Yes, that's a great question. I basically define a fractional executive or a fractional leader, as the same as a regular executive. Because the regular executive, if you have your CMO, or your CRO, or your COO, CFO, CTO, CHRO, whatever, they're responsible for a function of the business. The CMO was responsible for the marketing function of this business. Not one project, but the marketing of the business. The outcomes, the people, everything, just the marketing function of the business. CFO, and a lot of people listening to this, the audience, maybe CFOs or other roles in the finance, or accounting departments. And CFO is your CFO, they're responsible for your P&L, and finding savings, and forecasting, and strategy, just like a full-time CFO. The only difference between a full-time and a fractional CFO is that they're there fractionally, and they're part time.  So it enables you to afford someone in that role, that is maybe more experienced than you could afford on a full-time basis. So if you don't need someone with a tremendous amount of experience that's been CFO for decades, at multiple businesses, or a CMO at various businesses. If you don't need that, then, fine, you can hire a CMO a...

In this episode, host Adam Larson sits down with Ashish Gupta, CFO North America at Reckitt, to explore the CFO's role in driving a sustainable earning model for businesses. Discover how Ashish's diverse leadership experience across continents has influenced his approach to sustainable growth and learn valuable insights on strategy, transformation, and execution. Get ready to expand your financial knowledge and gain actionable tips for driving success in your organization. Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Today we are joined by Ashish Gupta, CFO, North America, at Reckitt. Ashish has worked across various continents, and his international experience has greatly influenced his approach to developing a sustainable earnings model. Ashish shares valuable insights on the importance of sustainable leadership. The link between strategy, transformation and execution, and the need for clear communication and business transformations. Join us as we delve into the CFO's role, in driving sustainable growth and empowering teams.  Ashish, we're so excited to have you on the podcast, today. And you've had extensive leadership experience, across various continents. And maybe you could share with our audience, how has this international experience influenced your approach to a sustainable earnings model? Ashish:           Hi, Adam, I am actually privileged to be talking to you, today. Yes, I've been lucky to have experience in various continents. But I must say that it has also been one of the challenges that I have faced. It has not been easy, but it's also been quite enriching and rewarding. It has taught me that there is no one-size-fits-all approach, either to leadership, or to developing a sustainable earnings model, or managing teams.  Well, my greatest learnings have been two, in this situation. The first one, has been that leadership must be situational, and it must be relevant to the place and the situation you are in. And there could be different leadership styles that you could adopt. For example, you could be empathetic, but at the same time be decisive. You could be collaborative, but be very unambiguous. You could come across as vulnerable, but still be authentic about it. And that's what people appreciate, and that's what brings your whole self to work, really. The second one is you also need to know, and as I said, that there's no one-size-fits all approach. You also need to know when to make a switch from one style to another, depending on how your team is reacting to it. For example, sometimes, we say that it's best to give feedback to people, at that moment. But that may not be the right approach every time. Because, sometimes, we just want people to get over the emotions and have a calmer head. Before you go back and say, "Hey, look, in this instance, we could have done it a little bit differently." And, maybe, the people are more receptive, at that point of time, when that heat has settled down and they are more calm.  So I would say that, it has taught me, also, because I've worked in different countries, different cultures. But people are people, so people are the same. They've got emotions, they like to be heard, they like to be respected, and that is universal. That does not change. Adam:            Yes, the human experience is universal, no matter where you go and, I think, people forget that. Because they want to divide each other because of this or that, and the human experience is so universal, like you just said. And as you're going out through your career, I'm sure you've hit different things like transformation, strategy, execution. You've had to hit all these different things in your different leadership roles. How has that set of skills supported you, in driving success in the different organizations you've been a part of? Ashish:           Well, Adam, you've just hit on three magic words in that. Which is strategy, transformation, and execution. And I think most of the organizations struggle with the relationship between these three to their teams. Because you cannot have a transformation before you have got a clear strategy, about how do you want to drive the business. And transformation is an outcome of your strategy, and execution is implementing that strategy and transformation.  So, very often, teams, in the business, fail to see the link of the transformation that is, sometimes, being led by global teams, to the company's strategy. And, then, it becomes even more muddy when it comes to execution. And I love this quote from Einstein, I'm not a science buff, but I love what he said. He said that, "If you can't explain to a six-year-old, then you don't understand it." And I think it's very true. And it may sound complex strategy, transformation, execution, but organizations need to keep it very simple. Because if people don't get it, then it doesn't reflect in teams not interested in executing a project or program. And it may sound something similar to Silent Resignation, that we talked about today, so people are not just interested. With my experience, I have had experience, and I'm lucky to have experience on both sides. I've led global transformation programs from the corporate side, and I've been at the receiving end, and large markets of those transformation programs. I've always wanted to understand the strategy behind a transformation. Why are we implementing a project? What's the corporate strategy in it? What do we get out of it? What do I get out of it?  And that helps me put in the right execution force and resources behind it. Adam:            So, you're speaking about leading transformation into the finance function. One of the times, I was reading about in a recent article you wrote, was the Group Transformation Finance Director at Reckitt. How is that experience? What things did you learn from that particular experience, that helped translate into what you're currently working on? Ashish:           Well, it has been immensely useful to my learning, really, Adam. And, normally, if you see in any organization, there are about two to three centers of gravity in an organization. The first one really is the corporate headquarters; that drives the vision, purpose, and strategy for the company. The second one, in many instances, is the geography or business unit headquarter, depending on how the organization is set up. And the third one, which I believe is the most important one, are the markets where the business actually gets delivered and, sometimes, there's a confusion.But it's so true, that the transformation office always works for the markets to bring in that change and shift. In my transformation roles, I was leading the selection and implementation of certain cutting-edge projects and tools, in various areas. Planning, forecasting, controllership and compliance, productivity. And, then, I'm currently working in the biggest market, which is U.S. So it has helped me to understand that once you understand the strategy be...

In a rapidly evolving accounting landscape, how can professionals demonstrate their skills and experience to stand out? Certifications! In this episode, veteran accounting educator and President of HOCK International, Brian Hock outlines the immense value of professional certifications for career-long growth and development. Learn how certifications like the CMA provide a standardized body of knowledge to showcase specialized expertise. Discover how the right certifications position you for success as technology and demands transform. Gain perspective on certifications as a strategic investment in your future, increasing opportunities and earning potential over the length of your career. Brian draws on extensive experience preparing accounting students and professionals for certifications to offer advice on overcoming barriers like cost or study time. He provides encouragement that passing rigorous exams like the CMA, while requiring dedication, is very achievable with the right preparation and planning.If you're looking to get strategic and maximize your career potential in accounting, this episode is a must-listen! You’ll come away motivated to pursue professional certifications and equipped with insights to choose the right certifications for your goals.Full Episode Transcript: Adam:            Today on Count Me In, we have a great episode in store. Our guest is Brian Hock, president of Hock International and an experienced accounting educator. Who has been teaching finance and accounting certifications for over two decades. Brian provides keen insights into the value of professional certifications like the CMA, and how they can benefit accounting professionals throughout their career. He discusses the importance of certifications in demonstrating specialized knowledge and skills, as well as how certifications, like the CMA, help professionals stay current in a rapidly changing business landscape. Brian offers advice for overcoming barriers to obtaining certifications. Emphasizing the long term career rewards, that make certifications a smart investment. With technologies and an evolving talent gap impacting the accounting field, Brian's perspective is extremely timely. Now, let's welcome Brian Hock. Adam:            Well, Brian, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast today. And, just to jump right in, can you share with us, with our listeners, why are certifications so critical, especially in the field of accounting? Brian:             Well, first, Adam, thanks for having me. It's great to be with you. The question of certifications is one that is very important for somebody's career. And the way I explain it is that there are however many thousands and thousands of universities around the world, and they all have different quality of an accounting program, accounting professors, the classes that they teach.  And, so, just because somebody has an accounting degree, we aren't really in a position to know what that person knows. What they studied, how they studied, how well they did. But a certification is a specific body of knowledge. A specific syllabus that is the same for everybody who takes it anywhere in the world. And, so, the term certificate, it's a certification because it's that standardized test that everybody who's passed it has passed the same content. And, so, it's a person's way of showing what they know separate from their university. Because a lot of universities may be very good universities, but they're not known outside the city, the region that they're in. And nobody outside that city or region is aware that the person has such a strong accounting education or finance education. But a certification shows that. Adam:            It does, and, I think, we're hearing that a lot more. Especially, in the world of accounting, with so many different things happening. So many new technologies coming out there. One of the biggest things we're hearing about is things like the talent gap. So how are certifications helping bridge that talent gap, especially in the finance and accounting sector? Brian:             Well, a good certification helps bridge that by staying current, and this is something that I know CMA does. I've been teaching CMA for almost 25 years, and it's a number of syllabuses that I've taught. Because what accounting and finance professionals need to know, what they're using on their job, has changed over time. And, so, with IMA doing such a good job of keeping the CMA syllabus up to date and relevant. That is part of that talent gap being addressed, by making certain that the people that come out through CMA have those skills. And the obvious example is AI wasn't in the syllabus 20 years ago, but it was put into the syllabus in 2020. And, so, technology is a big one, as technology changes. As the skill set that people need to use that technology changes, data analytics, visualization, are in the syllabus now, but they weren't ten years ago. And, so, a certification that keeps its syllabus current addresses that gap by making certain that the people who come out of that certification have those current, and practical, and relevant skills that are needed in the market today. Adam:            Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Now, you have been in this accounting space, in the certification space, teaching people certifications for a while. How have you seen that demand change over the years, and what trends you see us going towards in the future? Brian:             I think one of the things that's happened, and continues to happen, is more and more what I would call a specialty certification. You take something like CMA, and it's accounting and finance, at a fairly broad scope. It's not specific to receivables, or payables, or bookkeeping, or a specific type of banking. But now you have certifications that are specifically about fraud examining. You have certifications that are about a controller position or a specific element of a business. And those are wonderful certifications for people that are a little further along in their career. That have some experience and know what it is that they're going into. But when we talk about young people just starting their career. The certification that they need is one that's going to keep as many doors as possible open for them, as long as possible. And when I talk to a university student, I say, "Well, if you know that you want to go into investment banking, then that's the certification you need to pursue." "If you know that you want to go into some particularly niche area, then, find that specific niche certification."                        But most people, until they've been five or 10 years in their career, don't know what they want to do for the next 20 years. And, so, there are niche certifications that are developing, which are for later in somebody's career after they know where they're going. But we still have the same certifications around th...

In today's episode, host Adam Larson is joined by the esteemed authors of the 2023 Curt Verschoor Ethics Feature of the Year titled "The Value of Civility" - Amanda Marcy and Doug Parker. Get ready as they delve deep into the importance of civility in the workplace and its connection to professional ethics and ethical standards.Did you know that even seemingly inconsequential or inconsiderate words can violate workplace norms? In this fascinating conversation, Amanda and Doug shed light on various aspects of civility, including its impact on workplace morale, productivity, and employee commitment. They also explore the role of leaders in promoting a culture of civility and providing guidelines for employee conduct.Through insightful discussions and real-world examples, you'll gain a profound understanding of how civility not only enhances workplace harmony but also influences ethical decision-making. So whether you're a leader aiming to foster a respectful environment or an employee dealing with an uncivil boss, this episode will equip you with the tools to navigate challenging situations. Tune in today!Full Episode Transcript: Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. Today, I'm thrilled to have Doug Parker, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Western Carolina University. And Amanda Marcy, Assistant Professor of Accounting at the University of Scranton on today's show. They are authors of the award winning article, The Value of Civility. Which examines the important relationships between ethics, professional standards, and civil behavior in the workplace. Doug and Amanda will share insightful perspectives from their research, on how a culture of incivility can negatively impact organizations. What leaders can do to promote civility, and advice for handling uncivil bosses or co-workers. Their expertise provides a crucial framework for maintaining ethical principles, while nurturing a respectful and productive work environment.  Doug and Amanda's thought-provoking article underscores why self-awareness, open communication, and thoughtful leadership are vital for organizations seeking to uphold integrity. I'm excited to dive into these critical issues with them. Please join me in welcoming Doug and Amanda to the show. Adam:            Well, Amanda and Doug, I'm really excited to have you on the podcast today. You, guys, are the authors of an article called The Value of Civility, which is the Curt Verschoor, Article of the Year. And we're really excited to talk about that. And, so, maybe we can start off by explaining how civility in the workplace is related to professional ethics, and the ethical principles and standards. And we're going to be talking a lot about ethics and standards, today. But maybe we can start a little bit about maybe how civility works and maybe what is civility. Because it's not a word we hear every day in every workplace. Doug:              Well, it's definitely not something you hear every day, but it's something you witness every day. Especially when you watch media or any news outlets, you'll see incivility at its best. But the basic concept there is it's, basically, an exchange of seemingly inconsequential or inconsiderate words, that violate the conventional norms of workplace conduct. In other words, it's not, necessarily, direct attacks. It's more of texting on your cell phone while someone's trying to convey a point or real low intensity behavior meant to harm others, without maybe even recognizing that you're doing it. Sometimes it can be words that we say that can harm others. Derogatory comments, ignoring their opinions, belittling their opinions, I think, is a big part of incivility. And we do witness it quite a bit in everyday society. Hopefully not in everyday workplace society, but you see it a lot in terms of society. Go to the counter and just watch people do their orders. Where something's done wrong or not as quick as they think, and you'll see those uncivil acts begin to take place in there. Any additional thoughts on that, Amanda? Amanda:        I would say one thing to remember is that ethics contributes to how, like Doug said, we treat each other on a daily basis. So civility, at its heart, focuses on honesty, fairness, self-control, and prudence. Therefore, if we don't have civility, then we can never truly act ethically.Doug:              It definitely requires to be mindful of a place, time, and how you speak. I think we must concentrate on what we say and how we say it. So I found this neat, little, article by Joan Dubinsky, from Clemson University, and she stated that, "Civility and ethics are cousins, they're not twins." In other words, they're not the identical same thing. In other words, you can be civil and still act unethically. So you can take an unethical course, but do it very civil. So in the South we say, "Bless your heart" that's uncivil words. It's meant as a derogatory term, but it's done in a very civil manner. So you can act in an unethical manner and still act civilly. However, you can't be uncivil and be ethical, at the same time. So it doesn't work both ways. So if you're uncivil, then, you're definitely not acting civil or ethically toward others. Treating other with respect and care is really foundational to ethical leadership. Leading in a manner that respects the rights and dignities of others. Adam:            Mh-hmm, yes, it sounds like everybody should be listening to this conversation. Especially if we look at just how people treat each other in the streets, in Twitter, to each other, and how they talk to each other anywhere. This is a wider conversation, than just the workplace. But if we look at the workplace, how can that lack of a civility affect a professional workplace. If we don't have those things? I think you've kind of covered that. But if we look at just a workplace, how can it affect if we don't have those things? Amanda:        One thing to consider is it will, obviously, break down workplace harmony. Because you could have employees attacking each other, I don't want to say physically attacking each other. But attacking each other, maybe they're physically attacking each other, I don't know. Either subtly or intentionally which, again, can result in low employee morale, decreased productivity, stuff of that nature. It could also result, in the end of the day, of employees having less organizational commitment. So they may be more apt to leave the firm just because they're not comfortable being there anymore, in that type of environment. Doug:              Yes, and if you really read the paper and look at some of the comments, so I'll go to that, it says that, "The impact of incivility, it makes you less motivated to do a good job or get a job done as fast as possible." Well, in that are you acting in the most ethical manner? I mean, if your motivation to do a good job, that's not really ethical, especially, for your clients or for your employer in that.

The future of accounting is here, and it's automated! In the latest episode of Count Me In, we unravel the world of accounting automation, AI, and the exciting changes that technology is bringing to the industry. From enhanced efficiency and productivity to the ethics and potential challenges of integrating artificial intelligence, this episode covers it all. Our expert guest, Jesse Rubenfeld, CEO and Founder of FinOptimal, will discuss the way accounting is being transformed, the new skills professionals need to master, and the fascinating possibilities that full automation offers. Tune in, level up, and discover what the future of accounting holds!Connect with our presenter:www.finoptimal.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/jesserubenfeld/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome, listeners, to Count Me In. Your go-to destination for insights into the future of finance and accounting. Today, we have a special guest with us, Jesse Rubenfeld, CEO and founder of FinOptimal. He is an expert in accounting automation and AI. We delve into a conversation that may redefine how you perceive your profession. How is automation shaping the accounting landscape? What are the new skills that financial professionals must adopt? And what does the full automation mean for traditional jobs in the field? Sit back and join us in this exciting journey, as we explore the transformation of accounting in the age of automation. **** Well, Jesse, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast, and today we're going to be talking about automation and accounting. And to start off, maybe, at a high level, we can talk a little bit about how has automation really impacted the accounting and finance industry, and what benefits has it really brought to it? Jesse:              Well, I think it's really been a benefit to the profession, that's the headline. It's taken it from a place where there was a lot of manual block and tackle. To an elevated role where the accountant, the finance professional, can be a thought partner and spend most of their time analyzing and adding value to the message that they provide to management, to the CFO, to investors, to whoever it is. Because they're spending less time managing spreadsheets, or uploading things, or doing data entry, and more time being smart. Adam:            Yes, they have more time to focus on other things. Maybe we can talk about what are the specific kinds of automation, that are really impacting those operations. You mentioned some things that are taking us off of spreadsheets. But are there other things that are really impacting it? Jesse:              Well, in this situation I like to differentiate between accounting practice automation and accounting automation. Accounting practice automation involves task management workflow. Facilitating review and approval of work papers, tracking time spent on clients. It benefits the accounting firms, but it doesn't, drastically, increase capacity. And it's only beneficial for internal accounting teams, at a certain size. Now contrast that with accounting automation, which involves calculating and recording journal entries, reconciling transactions, generating reporting. This benefits accounting firms and their clients directly. It increases capacity for firms, and it increases speed and accuracy so the clients aren't sitting around waiting for answers.  Internal accounting teams can benefit from this early on. One person can benefit from this. One person can do the job of five, whereas it's unlikely they'd use accounting practice automation in a one-person finance team. We also like to distinguish between automation and automation assisted. Automation assisted means it's faster than fully manual, but it's still manual at lots of parts. Whereas automated means one event triggers all of the subsequent actions, automatically. And I like to illustrate this with a side-by-side example. Okay, let's say you're using HubSpot, the CRM, and QuickBooks Online. You close a sale, you have to invoice for the deal and then you have to account for it correctly. And deals, sometimes, have different payment terms. "I'm going to pay all up front, I'm going to pay monthly." And they have different agreement lengths; annual, quarterly, month to month. An automation-assisted process looks like this; a deal is marked closed, one. Accounting gets an email, they fill out the details in a spreadsheet that contains a revenue waterfall schedule. They make sure the formulas are correct and then they copy down through all of the columns, et cetera. And then once a month they go book an entry in QBO. Whereas automated, fully automated, means the deal is marked closed, one, in HubSpot. Data flows from the CRM to QBO automatically. The invoice is sent, automatically, and the invoice is coded in a way that the revenue can, automatically, be recognized in the appropriate periods. That's what we're doing for our clients, full automation. Does that make sense? Adam:            Yes, that makes a lot of sense. And, so, as you're describing those two things, the full automation is almost eliminating traditional jobs that have been in the finance function. So when you were talking about this full automation. There are new skill sets that are involved that are needed for it, and you've seen lots of articles. But maybe we can talk a little bit about that. What are some new skills that accountants are going to need, going into the future? Because full automation is on its way, in a lot of the functions. Jesse:              Totally. Again, the headline here is it's elevating the high performers of yesterday. So that today they can do more, better what they're already doing. In terms of new skills, it comes down to more systems and data analysis. SQL, for example, in our case, Python, if you really want to go crazy. I long ago went crazy. But I think that in the past, somebody who could do the higher level work of managing, of communicating financial pictures to important stakeholders like the CFO, the CEO, investors, they would do that, but they'd spend a lot of time preparing for those things. It would be a major event to get ready for a board meeting. And the amount of time that it took to do that right, was a barrier to entry of competitors for their job. Whereas now they don't have to spend that time preparing for it. Meaning they can use automation to do a much better job, of keeping things ready for the board meeting in real time, all the time. But it also means that it's not as hard for someone to come along with the same skills and replace them. Because they no longer have the luxury of designing their own really convoluted, excessively complicated process, that another skilled accountant can't come in and replace. So it's a double-edged sword. But, overall, it's making everybody more productive and therefore is good for business and the accountant. Adam:            Yes, it is good for business because it helps your bottom line, it helps get things done more efficiently. But I can imagine that changi...

Dive into the fast-paced and exciting world of artificial intelligence with our podcast series! Join our expert guests, Dr. Mfon Akpan and Dr. Scott Dell, as they unravel the mysteries of AI, explore the cutting-edge developments in language models like ChatGPT, and discuss the massive impact of these technologies on industries like accounting. From the thrilling acceleration of AI adaptation to ethical concerns and security implications, this podcast explores it all. Tune in to stay at the forefront of one of the hottest topics in technology today!Connect with our speakers:Dr. Mfon Akpan - https://www.linkedin.com/in/drmfonakpan/Dr. Scott Dell -  https://www.linkedin.com/in/drscottcpa/SF Magazine Article by our speakersFull Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into the world of AI. A subject that has been making waves across industries. Transforming the way we work, communicate, and think. With me are our esteemed guests; Dr. Mfon Akpan, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Methodist University. And Dr. Scott Dell, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Francis Marion University. They bring a wealth of knowledge and insights into AI's history, its current impact, and what's on the horizon.  We'll discuss everything from AI's phenomenal growth; to its applications, ethics, security concerns, and much more. So buckle up and let's embark on this fascinating journey into the digital revolution. Adam:            Mfon and Scott, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We're really excited we're going to be talking about AI and ChatGPT, and all that comes underneath that. And we're really excited to have this because this is a very hot topic, and people are talking about it. You see articles about it every day. You see updates, you see leaders writing letters saying, "Let's stop all AI for six months." Et cetera. Maybe we could just start at a high level. What is AI? What are these chat bots? What are these things doing for us? Scott:              Amazing tool, and thank you for having us. It's a pleasure to be here and to share. I'll kick things off, Mfon, if it's all right. This artificial intelligence has been around for over 60 years. So you say, "Wait a minute, why is it so new?" Well, what's new is the capabilities because of the computing power we now have. And the tool is amazing; it is changing life as we know it. We haven't seen the likes of this since the printing press. It's an environment that can really do things, change work, augment work, replace work, but makes things better. Your thoughts, Mfon? Mfon:             Yes, and I think some of the excitement around it is that we haven't seen this type of growth, in a platform as well. So you think about it was released, November 30th 2022. Five days, the platform got a million users. So you think about in 2010, it took Instagram two and a half months to get to a million users. So there's a lot of excitement, and then there's a lot of acceleration and speed around the platform, as well. Scott:              As a follow up to that, 100 million users mark was reached in two months. Compared to TikTok, I think, it was nine months to get that far, that fast. So it has been an amazing adaptation of the technology. Adam:            So maybe we can talk a little bit about how does it work. And, then, from there, maybe, talk about what benefits it may have for the accounting profession as a whole. Mfon:             Well, it's a language model, so it has an interface. So you're able to go to the platform, you go to the website, and you're able to ask it questions, or you can copy and paste information and ask it to do things. So from the profession side, if you're asking it to solve problems. You can ask it to solve a problem, or you can have it write an email, write a letter, it can produce content for you. Scott:              And as Mfon mentioned, it is an LLM, one of those three-letter acronyms, a large language model. But what it does is it projects words. So it looks at the previous word and it says, "Mm, what would the next logical word be?"                          Which, sometimes, if you've ever played the game of telephone, as a kid, sometimes, you get to the end of that line and nothing resembles how it started out. And that sometimes happens, as well, with the ChatGPT and GPT-4 environment. Because it is projecting with probabilities, "Yep, I think this is the next word." And sometimes it's dead wrong. It's called hallucinating, it's the actual technical term. Mfon:             It does hallucinate. But what's so fascinating when you use it, it is projecting. But I guess it feels like you get the impression that it's thinking, even though it's not thinking. So you can ask it questions and it will give you answers, so there's that interaction. But it is projecting and it does, sometimes, hallucinate, or make up answers, give you false information.  Scott:              And the fear I really have, in the hands of professionals, we can, probably, take a look and say, "Oh, this isn't quite right. This is illogical." But for a novice, and for newbies like our students, they will look at this and say, "The English is so good. It just flows so, logically, it must be right." And it's not, although, often enough it is right. So there's a balance. Adam:            Yes, so talking about people using it. Obviously corporations, people within corporations, within organizations, are using it. Within the accounting profession are using it, and people are having to create policies. There are new workarounds coming out there. People are saying, "Okay, you can use this, but you can use it for that." I saw one example, where somebody put in a fake balance sheet and said, "Analyze this for me." And it gave a really interesting analysis. Then, you have to worry, "Oh, am I putting somebody's data into this thing?" And you have to worry about those things. And, so, how can this tool be used for management accounting? In the accounting space, obviously, without giving away too much personal data? Scott:              Security consciousness is we need to be there. I mean, you're hearing about the deepfakes. I just heard about a scandal in Hong Kong, a banker that sent millions of dollars, based on what so...

In today's challenging business landscape, organizations need to adapt, innovate, and maximize efficiency more than ever. In today’s episode of Count Me In, we dives into the heart of support functions within organizations, discussing the current markets in 2023 and the inevitable squeeze that many businesses face. Our Guest Kevin Herring, president and founder of Ascent Management Consulting, discusses how you can leverage expertise within your organization as cuts and reorganizations loom on the horizon. Kevin will unpack the role of accountants, finance, IT, HR, engineering, supply chain, and more in optimizing the resources they have in the organization. Discover how you can shift your mindset, change how you operate, and bring your expertise to bear on critical situations.Connect with Kevin:https://ascentmgt.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/the90dayturnaround/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome to another episode of Count Me In. Today's world is filled with uncertainty, and with 2023 looking like a challenging year, organizations are feeling the squeeze. Our guest, today, Kevin Herring, president and founder of Ascent Management Consulting. Brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to our discussion, on support functions within organizations.  We'll explore how businesses can optimize their existing resources, transform their thinking, and redefine roles to survive and thrive in these turbulent times. It's time to reimagine your organization's potential. So let's dive right into this essential conversation. Kevin, I want to thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast. I'm really excited to have you on. As we talk about support functions within organizations. And as we both know that the markets, in 2023, are not looking great. The futures are not looking great. And it's going to put a squeeze on many organizations. And can we start talking about, within organizations. How you can leverage expertise, within your organization, as cuts and reorganizations are going to have to start coming? Kevin:            Yes, that's a great question. How do we do that? And I think that you're right. Everything that we read, everything that we hear CEOs are saying that they're hunkering down. They're planning for a rough 2023, possibly 2024, and they really have to maximize, maybe, a better way to put it is to optimize the resources that they have in the organization to get through it. And our support functions play a critical role in that.  Every organization has a lot of natural slack in the system. And, sometimes, we don't realize it until we really start to drill down and look at what's working, what's not working, that sort of thing. And what we find is that when you talk to people, when you talk to teams, and ask them, are they contributing everything that they could possibly contribute to the organization?  Not are they working as hard as they can, but are they contributing everything? Do they have capabilities that are not being used? Do they have information, understandings of things that are not being tapped? And the answer is almost always, "Absolutely, yes. I'm doing the best I can with what I have, but I could do so much more for the organization, if they just let me." And people and staff functions play such a critical role. Accountants, finance folks, IT, HR, engineering, supply chain, all those functions can play a huge role in maximizing or optimizing the use of our resources. The people that actually produce the product. The people that actually interface with the customers directly. And one of the ways they can do that is really to take a different look, maybe, than they have, historically, about their role in the organization.  So here are a couple of ways to do that. One is to think, when I go to work each day, how do I see myself? And this is not just a semantic exercise. But do I see myself as an accountant who just happens to work at XYZ manufacturing company, for instance? Or do I see myself as an XYZ business person, who happens to bring accounting expertise to the organization? And it's a different way of thinking about my role, "Why I'm here?""What am I supposed to do in this organization?" Am I just supposed to perform a bunch of tasks related to accounting? Or am I actually supposed to do things that, sometimes, might even stretch me a bit outside of my area of expertise. To help the business, overall, to be successful and to look for those opportunities?  And, so, when we do that, we start recognizing that for an organization to get the full use of our expertise. We need to think of ourselves in terms of how can we bring our expertise to bear on the critical situations that the organization is dealing with. The critical issues they're dealing with, "How do I do that?". And that's a consulting role, that's not an activity role. That's not a compliance or regulatory role, that's a consulting role.  That's where we're looking for ways that we can help those who are in the core business. To produce more efficiently, more effectively, to satisfy the customer better. To produce better products, higher quality, optimized, profitability, reducing cycle time, all those sorts of things, delighting the customer. Those are all things that anyone in a support function has the ability to help with. If they think of ways to apply their expertise in solving existing problems, and preparing the organization to handle possible future issues.  So that's a shift in thinking, it's also a change in how we operate. Because now, if I'm a consultant, I need to learn how to be a consultant. I need to learn consulting skills. I need to learn how to identify opportunities, diagnose problems, gather data, assess it, and determine how I can solve that problem. Or determine if maybe I don't have the expertise to solve it. Who might have that expertise, and be willing to source that for those in the core business that are struggling. That's a different role, for a lot of people. Adam:            That is a different role. And it's almost like within your internal organization, your title may be Chief Financial Officer or Chief Staff Accountant. But what you're saying is that your mindset needs to be that of a consultant, to better help the organization. So how do you start changing that mindset so that you can better help? Kevin:            Yes, well, first you have to decide who your client is. And this is a problem for a lot of people. Most people, when you ask them, "Who's your client?" They point to their boss. That's the client or the boss's boss, the CEO or the CFO. That's who they really serve in the organization, and that's not an effective mindset to have. Sure, those people play a critical role, but as bankers, really as bankers. People who provide the assets, the resources, the budgets, the tools and supplies, and things you need to be able to take your expertise and apply it to the core business. They want a return on those assets. So they're going to extend the resources for you to be able to use them in a productive way, for the organization.  And, so, that begs the question — Who is the real client? Well, the places where you ca...

In this riveting episode of the Count Me In Podcast, we dive into the complex world of cybersecurity within the accounting profession. Join us as we sit down with Tom Woolley, CEO of Today CFO and Founder of  Today Cybersecurity, who has navigated the transitions from corporate industry to founding his own cloud accounting firm, and then into cybersecurity for accountants. Discover the biggest challenges faced by organizations today, from integration headaches to the buffet of software solutions. Whether you are a Fortune 100 company or a mom-and-pop shop, you'll gain insights into striking the right balance with technology to ensure information security. With regulations tightening, get ahead of the curve with expert advice and real-world solutions. Don't miss out on this episode – tune in now!Connect with Tom:* Website: www.todaycybersecurity.com * Tom's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-w-2b6256173/ * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/todaycyber * Twitter: https://twitter.com/todaycyber_ * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/todaycybersecurity/ * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/today-cybersecurity/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:    Welcome to another enlightening episode of Count Me In. Today we have an exceptionally exciting conversation lined up for you. Our guest today is my fellow podcaster, and an author on Amazon's bestseller list, Tom Wooley. He has expertise in corporate accounting. Spanning sectors like pharmaceuticals, oil, and gas, and now he's making waves in the realm of cybersecurity.  From big corporations to small businesses, the tech landscape is ever-changing, and Tom's insights are here to guide us through it. We'll discuss;The rapid shift to remote work. The challenges of secure information handling. The complexities of selecting the right software. And the impact of new regulations.  Buckle up, as we explore how technology is shaping the future of accounting. Tom, welcome to the show. Adam:            To start off, I just really wanted to, maybe, you can talk a little bit about your background and how you got here. Tom:               Hi, Adam, thanks so much. It's a pleasure to be here. So I've been an accountant for 15 years, in the corporate industry before starting my own firm. I started off in pharmaceuticals, and then went to oil and gas in more of the financial analysis role and a lot of management accountancy. One of the things I used to do a lot of was whenever we would acquire a new company, we had to look at their financial systems. What they had in place, and then integrate them into our SAP financial system. All their historicals, and then get them trained, up and running for the future. So I got a lot of experience, and had a lot of fun working in accounting technology in my corporate career. And then decided that, "Hey, there's a lot of technology to be brought or to be moved over and implemented in the small business accounting world as well. Smaller firms need just as much tech, if not more, sometimes, than the big guys. And with the way the technology world is moving, especially, with everything going over to the cloud. I decided to start my own cloud accounting firm, back in 2015. And, then, when everybody started going remote, in 2020, I decided that was a good time to pivot again and go into cybersecurity, for accountants. And help other people tackle some of those issues that we saw as we transitioned to a lot of people working from home, remote, and just coping with a very wild and flexible world, over the last couple of years. Adam:            Yes, it's been a very wild and flexible world. There's been so many things happening with everybody working from home, and all the challenges that organizations face. And cybersecurity is something that's in the news every day. You see ransomware attacks, and so many different things that's affecting so many organizations. Maybe we can start by talking a little bit about what are some of the biggest challenges you see organizations facing, when it comes to cybersecurity. Tom:               Absolutely, there are a couple of things that really hit home. It's how to keep everybody working in a fluid environment. Where you can access all of your information securely. How can you find your clients' information securely? How can you receive it from them securely? We work in a time where we've got so many different communication channels. We have to actually tell our clients what is a safe and good way to get your information over to us.  And when we started transitioning from working in the office to working from home, the biggest challenge that we faced, and that other accountants are facing is–how do you go mobile with all of that? How do you keep it in the cloud and know that it's secure? And, really, importantly, how do we instill that trust relationship with our clients. So that they know that their information is in good hands? And we started looking at so many different software out there.  The second challenge is with a huge buffet of cloud software. Which one goes with which? How does it integrate? And it really came down to what does the process look like, for internally and externally with our clients? And that's what we hear a lot; is which software should I use?  How do I implement it?  There are some all-in-ones out there. Should I piecemeal, together, best in class? And there are just so many solutions. Accountants don't have time for that, especially, during tax season, which has been basically year-round for the last couple of years. Adam:            Yes, I can only imagine. And also the biggest challenge, too, is if you're a Fortune 100 company, you have a lot more financial ability to get a larger software. A big all-in-one software. But if you're a smaller organization, or a Mom-and-pop shop, it's a lot harder to implement those bigger softwares. And, so, trying to find that challenge; how do you balance that depending on which organization you're with? Tom:               Yes, that's a great question. There are smaller softwares like QuickBooks Online and Dropbox, that people, typically, use when they're starting off. All the way up to SAP or NetSuite when they're the Fortune 100. So it really comes down to what is the budget and how customizable does it need to be. Something like NetSuite requires not just getting the software, but hundreds or thousands of hours of customization, and implementation, and training. And what we really want to go for is finding out how the firm is interacting interna...

Unlock the mystifying world of cryptocurrencies and blockchain in this enlightening episode of Count Me In. Join our guest host Kelly Richmond Pope, accounting Professor and author, as she speaks with Lamont Black, an Associate Professor of Finance at DePaul University.  They navigate us through the complexities of blockchain technology, its relevance to accounting and financial services, and the turbulent landscape of cryptocurrency exchanges. Lamont takes a deep dive into how blockchain serves as the foundation of cryptocurrencies, elaborates on its inherent security and transparency, and paints a picture of its significant role in the future of digital commerce. We will also unpack the rise and fall of crypto prices, the risks involved, and how to safely engage with cryptocurrency exchanges. No matter whether you're a finance professional grappling with the challenges of a rapidly digitizing economy, or a curious listener wanting to unravel the world of cryptocurrency, this episode is an invaluable resource.Connect with Lamont and Kelly:https://www.linkedin.com/in/lamontblack/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-richmond-pope-cpa-83689a5/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome to another enlightening episode of Count Me In. Where we delve into the pressing issues shaping our world and the business landscape. Today, we have the privilege of hearing a wonderful conversation between our guest host, Kelly Richmond Pope, accounting professor and author, and Lamont Black, an Associate Professor of Finance at DePaul University. They discuss an issue that is at the forefront of finance innovation; cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. Lamont brings his vast knowledge and expert insights to help demystify these complex topics and explain their relevance to the finance industry. So whether you're a CFO, a controller, a finance professional, or simply a curious listener, prepare for a deep dive exploration into the world of blockchain and cryptocurrencies. Let's get started. Kelly:              So Lamont, thank you so much for joining me, today. And if you could start by just introducing who you are. Lamont:         So I'm an associate professor of finance in the Driehaus College of Business at the DePaul University. So I'm one of your colleagues. Kelly:              You are one of my colleagues. And, so, I want to welcome you to the IMA podcast series. And I have been working with the IMA, a little over a year. Working in research and thought leadership about ethics, corporate governance, risk, and you know my favorite love, fraud. And as we watch the news, read the news, what has just been in the news, so much, in the past, I'd say 18 months, is this really weird word called cryptocurrency.  And when I came to you, originally, about trying to understand what in the world is cryptocurrency. What you shared with me was how important it was to understand blockchain. And what I want to do, today, is have you really break down the importance of understanding blockchain. Because what I think the world is getting a little scared about is when you keep hearing about cryptocurrency, these exchanges that are falling apart. And, I think, everybody is really skeptical of this concept of cryptocurrency. But what I know you feel is, though, people might be scared of that. But you still need to understand the soundness and the value of the underlying technology, which is called blockchain. So could you tell us a little bit about what blockchain is and why we need to know about it as managerial accountants? Lamont:         Yes, so blockchain is the platform behind cryptocurrency. And blockchain is a technology, that, I think, everyone should be trying to understand. It's really a system of shared record keeping. So if you think about how we now live, in the information age, most of what we do is involving data. That data is being stored and shared using different systems, today. Whether that's on the cloud or other types of servers, and the blockchain is a way of sharing information. So that it's recorded on a shared ledger. So you can really think of blockchain as a system of accounting. And what makes it different is that rather than these ledgers being held in a private form. Different ledgers on different institutions that, then, have to communicate, blockchain cuts across all those silos. It's a way of recording information across an entire network. Sharing that information with the network, that makes it very secure, very transparent, and very efficient for sharing information.  So as we move deeper and deeper into the digital economy and e-commerce. I think every organization should be trying to understand how do we store and share information on the internet. I think blockchain is likely that next platform. And, so, even in the world of accounting, this is where things are likely headed. Kelly:              So that's a great explanation, and it really makes me feel a lot more comfortable in understanding that. Although, I hear all this craziness about cryptocurrency, and cryptocurrency is just where you shouldn't put your money. You've made me feel a lot more comfortable about why I need to understand blockchain. But let me digress, for a second, what in the world is going on with all that we hear about FTX, and the collapse of these exchanges? What is that conversation even about? And how does that affect or how should it affect our opinion of blockchain? Lamont:         Yes, so cryptocurrency is the money that is transferred across public blockchains like Bitcoin and Ethereum. And, so, people can own Bitcoin and Ethereum as digital assets, and crypto prices ran up, dramatically, during COVID. There are different arguments for why that occurred.  But one of them would be the amount of monetary stimulus. As people had all these different sources of income coming in. Let's say through stimulus checks in the form of fiscal stimulus, that money flowing into the economy. A lot of that ended up in crypto. And, so, Bitcoin almost reached $70,000 for one Bitcoin by late 2021. And as we moved into this year and our economy started to slow, inflation started to rise, largely as an outcome of COVID, crypto prices started to collapse.  Now, some people focus on the collapse of the crypto market as being something unique. But I just would point out that the stock market also entered bear market territory in the first half of this year, and in particular, tech stocks. So tech stocks are very risky. And, so, speculative assets during an economic slowdown, those prices tend to fall the most.  I view crypto as a form of technology. It's the frontier of technology. So, to me, it's no surprise that as risky assets have sold off this year, crypto has gotten hit the hardest. Now, as it relates to the exchanges, that's really been the problem this year. Because most people when they buy crypto, they buy it on an exchange like Coinbase, here in the US, or FTX, which was an offshore exchange headquartered in the Bahamas.  No...

Join us in this episode of Count Me In as we welcome our esteemed guest, Nykema Jackson, Head of Reporting, Policy and Technical Accounting at Airbnb. As we navigate the tides of remote work, hybrid models, and the aftershocks of the 'Great Resignation,' Nykema shares her insights into the art of staff development and leadership in these changing times. Discover how organizations can keep their staff engaged, foster open and trusting relationships, and leverage technology for connectivity and team building. Nykema also delves into the importance of empathy, clear vision, and timely feedback in creating a culture that inspires employees to stay and grow. Tune in to decode the leadership formula for the new world of work. Connect with Nykema: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nykemajackson/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Hello and welcome to Count Me In. The podcast that brings you the latest insights and practical advice on leadership, accounting, management, finance, and business. I'm your host Adam Larson, and today we are delighted to have Nykema Jackson with us. With a rich background in consulting and a significant leadership role in corporate America. She's here to share her views on the pressing issue of our time; staff development and leadership in the era of remote and hybrid work models.  As we explore the new paradigms that have emerged in the wake of the Great Resignation, let's dive into the conversation to learn how we can foster engagement, trust, and growth in these transformative times. Please join me in welcoming Nykema to the show. [00:00:43]       < Music > Adam:            So, Nykema, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We're really excited to have you on, and today we're going to be talking about staff development and leadership. Which is a big topic today because in the last three years we've seen a lot of changes. With the change to working from home. And, then, now, as things have gone back, going back to hybrid. And we've had terms like The Great Resignation and quiet quitting being thrown at everybody.  And, so, as we're talking about that, can we maybe discuss, from your perspective, how do you see an organization can keep their staff engaged and continue to develop them in the midst of all this? Nykema:        Sure, and thanks so much for having me. One thing that I've seen in my career, and I've come from a consulting background and, currently, I'm in corporate America working for a company. I've seen that individuals need leadership that knows and is very intimately versed in the mission of the company. That is invested in their employees. And investments from a learning and development perspective, as well as investing in them as a person.  And, so, COVID has brought around this environment where we've merged lives. We had our work cells before we had our personal cells, and now those things have come together. I find that it's critically important to recognize and acknowledge that in people, and to support them down both avenues. And when someone feels invested in and developed, and they know the mission that they're marching towards. I feel that turnover is less and you can get around the big resignation. Adam:            So I completely agree. As you continue to engage people, they will stay where they are. But, then, there's also the quiet ones who aren't really as engaged with what's happening. You can develop, and you can pour yourself into the people who are engaged and want to be there. But how do you grab those folks who are not quite there and want to be there? Nykema:        So one of the things I do, personally, are one-on-one check-ins with my directs, and sometimes I do skip levels. You'd be amazed that for those quieter ones, how much they open up in a one-on-one environment. I think people need to know from leadership, and I feel like sometimes we get lost in our own trajectory and progression. We don't realize that as we rise in the ranks, there is a level of intimidation for people. So you need to make it an open-door policy, and you need to make people feel comfortable to come to you. And one way to do that is to develop relationships.  But it takes a concerted effort on the leader to make time for that. Because it's not that time is on our side in a lot of situations, and COVID has created an additional barrier around that. Where people can't just pop in your office, they can't just see you in the hallway. They can't just strike up a conversation around the coffee machine.  They have to be deliberate and intentional on making those relationships and fostering that along the way. And the only way to do that is to schedule the time. So that it can start to become organic. Where they feel more comfortable with their relationship, with leadership, and they'll come to you naturally. Adam:            Yes, it's almost like you need to create some open-door Zoom call or open-door office hours on Teams, where people can just pop in at any time. Where they're able to do that, and the technology is out there. And how has technology helped you in the midst of the COVID era and able to reach out to people? Nykema:        So, for me, COVID has opened up a whole universe of additional time, for me, it's saved me a commute. So I've been able to use technology, in a way, to connect with people, and I make it less transactional. So some folks get a little intimidated by being on screen.  And, so, one thing that I've done is I don't multitask while I'm on calls. I silence my email so that I can really focus on individuals. And with the use of technology, we're able to do teaming events virtually. Sometimes we'll do happy hours, where we'll send a bottle of wine to individuals. I haven't done that on my current team, so don't tell them.  But in the past, I've sent bottles of wine, or if there's something that they like around coffee, or something, gourmet, I would send that, and then we would have a virtual outing. And it gives people the flexibility to still be there for their families, and their children, and whatever extracurricular activities that they have. But we can, literally, pick any time of the day to do this now. Versus sequestering it to the end of the day. Adam:            Yes, our team did a virtual wine and painting. Where they sent the wine and the painting thing, and then the person did it through Zoom and show us. And we'd all sit there painting, and drinking our wine, and it was actually quite fun. More fun than I realized it would be, doing it virtually. I never thought it could be like that. Nykema:        Absolutely. Adam:            Do you have any other examples of how you've been able to develop your team, in the midst of the COVID era. Even before the COVID era, where it was difficult for the team members to connect. Nykema:        So one th...