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Tune in to listen to Adam Larson as he hosts the Count Me In Podcast, featuring a special conversation with Adam Lean, the CEO and Co-Founder of TheCFOProject.com. Lean shares expert insights on transforming the role of the traditional CFO, offering practical advice and real-life success stories. Don't miss this insider's look into the future of the accounting profession!Full Episode Transcript: < Intro > Adam:            Greetings, accounting professionals. Adam Larson here, host of Count Me In, and today we embark on a transformative journey with Adam Lean, the visionary CEO of TheCFOProject.com. Prepare to break free from the shackles of the accountants' trap. A pervasive challenge that confines so many to a transactional purgatory. In this conversation, Adam unveils a potent cocktail of liberation, strategic transformation, technology-driven empowerment, and high-value service mastery. So join us on this first podcast of 2024, and together, let's rewrite the future of accounting, one empowered professional at a time. < Music > Well, Adam, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast. And you are the leader at The CFO Project, and you have a podcast called the Accountants Trap, and you mention that a lot. Maybe you can start by defining what is the accountants' trap, and why is it a challenge for many firm owners today? Adam Lean:   Yes, that's a great question. We have this saying here at The CFO Project, we want accountants to escape what we call the accountants' trap. The idea is that accountants, and when I say accountants I mean accountants, CPAs, bookkeepers, enrolled agents. Traditionally, accountants are trading time for money. In order to make more money they either have to work more hours, which there's, obviously, not many more hours you can work, or you have to take on more clients.  Well, the thought of taking more clients on, in order to make more money is depressing to a lot of accountants. Because most clients are high-demanding, low-paying clients, and they give you all their paperwork at the very last minute, and the idea of taking on more clients is not appealing to most people. And it's a trap because you can't raise your prices. You can't raise your prices because there's always another accountant that's willing to do it cheaper than you. And if you think about it from the viewpoint of your client, and we have to always think about it from the viewpoint of our clients. On the laundry list of things that a business owner has to think about, during the day, accounting falls towards the bottom. They think of accounting as a commodity, in a sense. It's like a gas station; you're driving down the road and there are two gas stations next to each other, one is $0.50 higher. Most people are probably not going to go to that gas station because they view fuel as a commodity, it's interchangeable. And the same thing with accounting and bookkeeping services. What you do, A, they really don't understand, and, B, they feel that any accountant can do it. Any accountant could put the tax return together. Any accountant can do the books. So why would they pay you more, significantly more, than the average accountant? They wouldn't.And, so, this is the trap; to make more money you're forced to work more hours for little pay, with high-demanding clients. And, so, we suggest that there's a better way. Adam:            I would hope so because, that would be really frustrating as time goes on, and to have to get more clients. And if you're an internal accountant, within a corporation, you have to help all the different operations of the business to get everything together, do the budget, and that can bring a different type of accountants' trap challenge. Adam Lean:   Yes, absolutely, your candle is burning at both ends, and there's no give. Adam:            Yes, there's no give at all. So how important is it? Because, like you said, a lot of times for owners, they don't understand the importance of the accountant. How do you change that role for the business owner, if you are the CFO, if you're the controller, you're within the organization, and you're trying to say, "Hey, this is an important part." How do you help change that view, at the top of the organization? Adam Lean:   Yes, this is the frustrating part because accountants are very valuable, they're needed. But the people that use accountants; so the company you work for or your client, if you have a business, and if you work for clients, they don't view it that way. Which, again, goes to what I was talking about with the accountants' trap. They don't view what you do as important as they should. Having great books is important, it's needed. And what you do to ensure that the books are kept accurately and timely, and the taxes are filed, is very important.  But until your client, whether it's your boss or whether it's your actual clients, business owner clients, until they view you and your work as highly valuable, they're not going to pay for that. So the idea is to shift in your client's mind, in your constituent's mind, your value. So instead of being thought of as the person that just keeps the books or that just does the taxes. Because you have to remember that your client doesn't really understand what you do. You know what you do, and so you know all the effort and time and energy you pour into it, but they don't. So they're not going to place the value on it as much.  But if they can wrap their mind around your value, then, they will find you more valuable. Which means they'll pay you more and you can escape the trap. So the idea is to be the financial professional, in your client's life, that they actually want. And what is it that most business owners want? They want someone that they can trust, to tell them what to do to have a growing and successful business. So if you, as the accountant, can be that person that a client trusts to tell them what to do. To give advice on something that they really care about, which is their business, then, your stock with them will go dramatically up. They'll pay you as much as you command, as much as you want, and they will not think of you as just the person that records the books or just this commoditized, necessary evil that I've got to pay. And they'll start to view you as somebody that's a trusted confidant, an advisor, somebody they want to talk to every month. Adam:            Yes, that advisor, the term that we use a lot is that business partner. You want to be that business partner, not just the number cruncher. Adam Lean:   That's right. You'll still provide the same value, that in your mind they need, which is accurate books, taxes. But you're going to shift the value in your client's mind. Which, I mean, let's be honest, it's really the only thing that matters is your client perception of you. That's what's going to pay the bills. If you...

Tune in to the latest episode Count Me In, where host Adam Larson brings you an engaging conversation with some of finance's leading voices in India. We're thrilled to feature Sunil Deshmukh, IMA’s Chair Elect boasting over three decades of global business management expertise, and the astute Sandhya Sriram, Group CFO of Narayana Health, renowned as one of India's Top 100 Women in Finance. In this episode, Sunil shares his distinctive perspective on sustainable finance’s competitive edges, such as improved global market access and cost of capital benefits. Sandhya, on the other hand, offers a deep dive into the real-world applications of ESG strategies within large organizations, while addressing the intricate issues surrounding ESG disclosure transparency.With this powerhouse duo, you're privy to a rich discussion that spans everything from the transformative ESG initiatives at Narayana Health to the visionary roadmap laid out for sustainable finance under India's G20 presidency.Don’t just listen, be part of this enlightening session. Whether you're a CFO grappling with ESG strategy, or simply intrigued by the evolution of sustainable business practices, this is an unmissable dialogue loaded with experience and insight. Plug in and join us for a compelling narrative where finance and responsibility converge.Full Episode Transcript:< Intro > Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into a topic that's reshaping the corporate landscape in India, ESG, or Environmental, Social, Governance, factors and their growing influence. We have two esteemed guests joining us. First, Sunil Deshmukh, who is IMA's chair-elect and an expert with over 30 years of global experience in business management. Also, we have Sandhya Sriram, the group's CFO for Narayana Health, and she is among India's top 100 women in finance. In this episode, we're not only looking at the current regulations and the evolution of reporting requirements. But also how Indian markets are responding to the pressing need for ESG integration in risk management and long-term sustainability. Sunil will highlight the rewards tied to sustainable finance, has enhanced global reputation and reduced capital costs. While Sandhya will shed light on the practical challenges and opportunities like achieving transparency in ESG disclosure, and leveraging sustainable solutions through startups. Get ready to impact the complexities and innovations within the world of ESG, with insights from the CFO's desk. As the G20 turns its eyes to India for sustainable finance directives, we, too, focus on how Indian companies can translate these directives into competitive advantages. Let's get started.  < Music > Sandhya and Sunil, I'm so excited to have you both on the podcast, today, as we talk about ESG, and especially ESG in the Indian market. And to just jump right into the conversation, how would you describe the importance of ESG integration, within financial strategies for companies operating in the Indian market? Sunil:              Thank you very much, Adam. A great question, very relevant question to the Indian market conditions. Before we get into the formal discussion, I would say that the concept of triple bottom line was already existing in the world before ESG, which was coined by John Elkinton in 1994. Where we used to talk about 3P's, Profit, People, and Planet. I would say that ESG is a formal expansion of that concept, which has come into the existence. Now, ESG is in existence in India, I would say right from 2011. Indian Companies Act Department or, Ministry of Corporate Affairs, as well as the Securities and Exchange Board of India, have been coming out with different regulations, different advisories, guidelines, and some reporting requirements by Securities and Exchange Board of India, on this topic.  Now, you asked me the question about the importance of ESG in financial strategies. I would say that in today's world, almost all companies in their financial strategies start with a concept of risk management first. And when we talk about the risk management, one of the most important strategy that comes is the sustainability. Whether your business is going to be sustained for a longer period of time or not. And there comes the ESG, which is of course sustainability pertaining to environment, risk relating to the environment, risk relating to the social, which is typically the people. And, of course, the governance, which is more of a compliance risk based on the requirements of the stock market or government regulations, and all those things.  So I would say that most of the companies start with integrating the ESG in their risk management strategy, and from there they take it. And, in today's world, ESG has become very important not only from a financial strategy point of view or a business strategy point of view, but also accessibility to the capital. If you want to access the capital at the world level or global market, and if you want to have a cheap capital or affordable capital as compared to the market prices, I think sustainability and ESG is going to play a very important…  ESG strategy integrated into a financial strategy, will help the companies have a competitive advantage as compared to their competitors. It will also help the companies to have a long-term sustainability strategy. And we also talk in finance domain, that every single business is supposed to have a going concern concept or is a perpetual continuation. So from that point of view, ESG will help companies to look into, naturally, how long the business strategy is going to sustain and stabilize. So long-term aspect of ESG is also going to help the companies in their financial strategy. Other small things, or other very important but small things, which are helping companies due to ESG is talent retention. The today's generation Z employees, they don't want to work for companies which are not following the people strategies or governance strategies. So talent acquisition and talent retention is one area. I would say supply chain resilience. In today's world, the Indian companies use global supply chain. We import a lot of raw material. So if we have a sustainability strategy, in the global supply chain, that's also going to help the companies. And, obviously, the last but not the least is the stakeholder engagement.  And when I say stakeholder engagement, it could be your customers, it could be your suppliers, it could be your employees, it could be government, a municipal corporation, and, of course, shareholders, investors of the company. All these stakeholders are looking at ESG as a strategy from a long-term continuity, as well as comprehensive success formula for the company. Adam:            Now, I think that's an amazing overview of where to look at things from a 10,000-foot point of view, to see how everything's working within the organization. Now, Sandhya, as a CFO, how do you perceive your role changing and developing, especially, as you try to implement these strategies and some of the things that Sunil talked about?

Welcome to the Count Me In Podcast! Join your host Adam Larson and today's guest, financial expert Tony Klimas, as they discuss the future of finance and insights for 2025 and beyond. Tony has 25 years of consulting experience that he brings to his roles as president for Horvath USA. Get ready for a deep dive into the evolving financial landscape and how the role of the CFO is changing. Stay tuned as Tony shares valuable perspectives on AI, machine learning, process automation, and ethical considerations in the finance function. Don't miss out on this engaging conversation with a true industry expert!Full Episode Transcript: < Intro > Adam:            Welcome back to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we have a special guest, finance expert Tony Klimas. Joining us for an insightful discussion on the future of finance. Tony has 25 years of consulting experience that he brings to his role, as President for Horvath, USA. In this episode, we'll be exploring the evolve role of the CFO, the impacts of technology and innovation, and the ethical considerations in the ever-changing financial landscape. Tony provides valuable insights on managing stakeholder interests, fostering innovation, and addressing the challenges brought on by automation. Join us as we explore the complexities of the industry, and gain expert perspectives on what lies ahead.  < Music > Adam:            Tony, we're really excited to have you on the podcast today, and I just want to thank you so much for coming. And as we get started, how do you envision the role of the CFO changing by 2025 and beyond, in the context of an evolving financial landscape? Tony:              Hi, Adam. Thanks, it's great to be here. And what a great, first question because that is what's happening today. And I think it's been happening really, probably, for the last 10 or 15 years. If we can define sort of a computing age turning into a digital age, somewhere, maybe around 2010 or so, the early part of this century. And CFOs have been dealing with that ever since, and they're going to continue to deal with it. In fact, oftentimes, when I talk to clients, I like to remind them that we're in the early days of this digital age. It's like the early days, in the late 1940s, when computers were still powered by vacuum tubes and they filled an entire room. The changes and the advances are happening so quickly, and they're going to accelerate. And I think CFOs, on the one hand, it's a great time to be a CFO because you're watching all these fantastic, incredible things happening. But it also presents a lot of challenges.  And the one thing I would say that's changing the most for CFOs, is their job is becoming incredibly more complex than it ever was in the past. And you see this when you look at the organizations of large companies. For example, the Chief Accounting Officer, for a large part of my career in finance and accounting, I didn't really see chief accounting officers. It was usually just a CFO and a controller. Now it's very common to have both a controller, a CAO, a VP of finance who's in charge of the forecasting and planning process, and, then, of course, the CFO. and you might even have other folks; elevate, investor relations, and you'll often even have a digital person in there somewhere.  So the role is becoming more complex. Who the CFO surround themselves with is becoming more important. And I think a lot of them, especially, the ones who don't quite see that coming, are struggling. Because it's just so much more to handle than they ever had to handle in the past. Adam:            And you can't talk about the future and where things are going, without hearing the terms AI, and machine learning. And it's funny because if you ask somebody who knows about those things, they're like, "Well, artificial intelligence and machine learning have been around for a long time." But it's advancing more and more and more. Do you think that what jobs and roles, within finance, are going to become obsolete because of those things? Because they're advancing so much, that it will be taking people's jobs? Tony:              Yes, it is a good point. As an undergrad, I was actually a math major, and I actually took some courses in neural networks, and some of the probabilities that are being used in some of these algorithms. And a lot of the math hasn't really changed that much, but how we apply the math and then, of course, the computing power is what has really created this environment now.  Where we have all this new technology that both mimics intelligence, that would be AI. And, then, of course, machine learning is machines that are getting smarter, as they learn from their mistakes and then apply those, again, in an algorithm. And, so, I think what's changing most, from a CFO perspective, is it is having a huge impact on the finance and accounting organization in the way we work and the work we do. In the same way that the pandemic impacted the way we hold meetings. And the way we now do things, virtually, the way we work. These technologies in accounting, and a lot of people are still trying to figure them out. And, this is my opinion here, but I think one of the ways that's very important to think about these technologies is they're not just side thing. A lot of people are really enamored with some of these Internet tools. Where they can type a question into Chat GPT and get an answer.  Yes, that's interesting, and it can produce an interesting answer. But the reality, the real value of these tools, is when we embed them into the technology stack, and we start to use them for both decision support, and to give us better insights than we had in the past. And when we start to do that, then we unlock the value of our data and they start to become super valuable for us. And, sure, we're using them to automate things like the closing process. Last week I was with the folks from BlackLine, at their annual user conference. They focus heavily on AI and machine learning, and that's going to impact the organization. So they is a people side of this, and I think we're going to talk about that some today.  But then there's also a capability side. And if you can get the capability ahead of your competition, you can really get an advantage in the marketplace, from these technologies. But it has to be embedded, and it has to really be part of the fabric of how you operate, it can't be a side thing. In that case, it's more of a toy, to me, than something really useful.Adam:            Yes, it really is a toy. Now, there was a stat that I read in your white paper, The Finance 2025. That said that 87% of CFOs surveyed see an increase in process automation as a key goal. What are some of the opportunities there, for CFOs as they're looking to the future? Tony:              Well, if ...

Welcome to Count Me In! Join your host Adam Larson as he dives into insightful conversations with industry experts. In this episode, Adam is joined by Andrew Jamison, CEO & Co-Founder of Extend, a Point72-backed fintech platform that enables virtual card and spend management capabilities for small businesses. They discuss how small to medium-sized businesses can leverage fintech solutions to reshape their financial landscape. Get ready to gain valuable insights and practical advice from Andrew as he shares his expertise in the field. Don't miss out on this engaging discussion that is sure to empower SMBs in embracing the latest technologies. Tune in for this informative episode!Full Episode Transcript:< Intro > Adam:            Welcome back to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we have a fantastic guest joining us, Andrew Jamison, CEO and co-founder of Extend. A fintech platform that enables virtual card and spend management capabilities for small businesses.  We'll be exploring how small to medium-sized businesses can leverage these innovative solutions, to reshape the financial landscape. Andrew will share valuable insights on the importance of embracing fintech technologies and how they can drive efficiency and growth. From the power of data and open APIs to the role of big partners in mitigating risks.  Andrew will guide us through the key factors and success stories of implementing fintech solutions. Plus, we'll explore the future of AI, and machine learning, and finance, and the skills finance professionals should cultivate for continued relevance. So, let's get started. < Music > Andrew, I'm so glad to have you on the Count Me In podcast, today. We're excited to have you here, and we're going to be talking about fintech, and different solutions, especially, in the realm of small to medium-sized businesses. To jump right in, how do you think that the fintech solutions are reshaping the financial landscape, especially for small and medium-sized businesses? And why is it crucial for them to embrace these technologies? Andrew:         Look, I think we're continuing down a really exciting journey, actually. Where the prevalence of data, and the ability and accessibility of technology means that we're finding more and more verticalized solutions. Which helps on two fronts; one, on the one hand, it means if I'm very specific in the industry that I serve. I start to have a solution that actually talks to me, specifically, in my industry.  And I think the ability for people to access that technology means that you now have more and more independent developers, who are exploring how these open APIs can be used, leveraged, and really brought together to create solutions that are increasingly targeted, at the different functions that we work in. So I think that crossroad we're there, and it's only going to explode from here, in my mind. Adam:            It's definitely going to explode. You see the different technology is getting more and more accessible. But sometimes it's harder when you're in a small to medium-sized business. Sometimes you're an accounting department of one, or two, or three people, and it's harder to implement some different types of technology. What advice would you give to somebody trying to look into it, saying, "Hey, I want to jump into this, but I may not have the budget that bigger organizations have?" Andrew:         Look, what I look at small companies, they want to do more with what they have. And they're trying to abstract away the complexity because, you're right, I look at our team, we're a team of 80-odd employees. And the reality is I have one VP of finance, and he's only just now gone and hired his right-hand person. And the reality is that they're jacks of all trade. They're AP, they're AR, they're essentially all your cash flow management, and they do all your recording, all in one.  So if I sit down, specifically, with him, it's really all about seeing how they can leverage existing software for longer. How do you abstract away some of the challenges with some of the software that you might have, as you start growing as a business? How do you leverage other solutions, which are just embedded with those solutions, so that you don't have to go through a massive transformation?  Well, I'll give you a great example, and that's Graham Stanton's Avise. His whole thesis is all about lots of businesses use QuickBooks, and then quickly you grow up, if you're a successful company. But do you really want to make the next step to the next enterprise solution? Which, actually, costs a disproportionate amount of money more, relative to the benefits that you're going to get from them in the early years. So there's always that, healthy tension, but we're starting to see more and more people focus on the abstraction piece. Keep the ledger the way it is, and then just start adding solutions over the top that help me run my business more efficiently. Adam:            I like that. Adapt it to what works for you, as opposed to maybe doing a whole ERP system that may be too much money or too much of a spend for you. Andrew:         Yes, and, again, finance team of one, I came out of the exact polar opposite world. The first 10 years of my career were in deploying SAP. So right at the enterprise resource planning side of the equation, and just a completely different beast, in terms of the different types of people that you had to go and engage with. And also just the number of departments that you got to engage with. Therefore, the resources that were required, just to keep the engine running for that platform were just completely different. Adam:            Now, we can't talk about moving to different technologies without talking about things like fraud, and just the risk there. And especially if you're a smaller department, or a partner of one, like in your case, there are two people. How do you protect against hackers or different things, different emerging threats, especially, in the fraud space, especially, if you're a medium-sized business? Andrew:         Look, I think you have to rely on the bigger partners. You can work, certainly, to continue to enhance your solutions. But you do have to lean on some of the bigger partners. We lean on, certainly, on the AWS infrastructure to help us there because they have so much more money to plow into this.  Now, obviously, they're a bigger target than we are. But they also have way more resources to help plug those gaps. So in our mind, it's also two things; one is it's not really about if, it's when, it's going to happen. And, then, it's really about how do you mitigate it in terms of relying on these partners.  Now, clearly, cybersecurity, whether it's through an encryption or authentication. I think lot of work continues to be done there. And I think we all experience it, in the consumer world, which is mor...

Welcome to Count Me In! In this episode, our host Adam Larson welcomes back Alissa Vickery, Chief Accounting Officer, SVP Accounting and Control at FLEETCOR, who shares her journey as an interterm CFO at FLEETCOR. Discover how Alissa balanced multiple finance responsibilities, handled the weight of the CFO role, and developed her leadership strategies. Get ready for an engaging discussion that will inspire and inform. Full Episode Transcript:< Intro > Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. In today's episode, we are excited to have Alissa Vickery back on the show. Alissa is the Chief Accounting Officer, Senior Vice President, Accounting and Control at FLEETCOR Alissa, who served as the interim CFO at FLEETCOR shares her experience stepping into the role, navigating the transition, and balancing multiple responsibilities. She discusses the importance of building a strong team, seeking advice from mentors and auditors, and effectively communicating with peers and leaders.  She candidly shares her success stories and learning opportunities, during her time as the interim CFO. Lastly, Alissa reflects on how this experience has shaped her career trajectory, and emphasizes the importance of being a business partner within the finance leadership role. Keep listening to hear Alissa's insights and advice. Let's get started. < Music > Adam:            Well, Alissa, we're very excited to have you back on the Count Me In podcast. And today we're going to be talking, a lot, about your role, how you served as an interim CFO at FLEETCOR. And, so, to start off, maybe, you can briefly describe your experience as an interim role and what were your main responsibilities? Alissa:            Sure, so I guess I'll back it up a minute, when you get asked to sit in that kind of seat, even on an interim basis, it is quite overwhelming and humbling, all at the same time. And, so, after serving in various roles in the finance sector here at FLEETCOR over the last 12 years, stepping into the role and the responsibilities, and I'll just call it the weight of the position was, quite frankly, a moment where for me, professionally, I had to really look in the mirror and say, "Okay, I can do this. I'm ready. I can accomplish what my leaders are hopeful that I can accomplish." But in terms of what prepared me for that, I think it's the experience of being on the journey of the FLEETCOR trajectory over that 12-year cycle, and holding various roles throughout the organization. But always in a global capacity, and always in the interest of, I'll call it the overall finance good.  Whether it's helping with a deal and making sure that we're thinking through the risks and rewards appropriately, working on valuation, thinking about internal audit. It's really those experiences that prepared me to be able to step into the role in that moment, at that time, whether anticipated, unexpected, whatever. And, so, it was quite the opportunity, at that time. Adam:            Yes, I can imagine the weight of stepping, into something like a CFO. Because if you're not used to that, if you've never been in that role, there's a certain level of responsibility that is on your shoulders, all of a sudden. Like one day you're not, and then the next day you are. So it's a big transition. How did you navigate that transition to that new role? Alissa:            I would say I spent as much time as I could with my outgoing CFO, that was step one. Talked a lot with HR around how to navigate the executive ranks, if you will. I was already in the room, but having the CFO hat was a very different hat. And then I would say getting advice from both of those parties, as well as my external auditors. Who were already, I'll call it trusted business partners, as we navigated forward, and just trying to be, quite frankly, as prepared as I could be.  But then also have the chats with my CEO, to understand exactly where he wanted me to focus. Because I knew that it would be challenging to be all things to all people. I already know that in my personal life/professional life. You can't do all things excellent, at the same time. If you're being a great employee, sometimes, you're not as great of a mom or a wife. And, so, always striking the right balance. And, so, understanding what he was hoping that I would help control, and help manage, and get him comfortable with, as we moved forward. And, then, I think getting the advice from my outgoing CFO, who was quite gracious with the time he had left in the organization, around making sure that I was leaning on others. I was not in this by myself. I have a team. We have a strong team, and they help to build and support a great finance organization. "Don't forget to lean on them, ask for help, and seek the advice of others when needed." At the end of the day, I had already built the trust throughout the organization through my tenure, and through the various projects I've worked on over the years. And, so, not discounting the value, and I'll call it just the level of experience that facilitated in the new seat. Adam:            I can only imagine, but it sounds like you had a great team. And having a great team around you really helps lift you up, and prepares you for that. Are there certain leadership strategies that you had to implement to try to navigate this waters? Because one day you're same level as other people, and the next day you're suddenly a C-level person, right? Alissa:            Yes, it's just the short answer. It was super fascinating because suddenly I had a new peer group. And, so, working directly with each of those peers, and I have to say they were so gracious, and saying, "How can I help you be successful?" "Let me know what you need." So I think that's part of it.  But, then, too, in terms of the skill sets, it was really having the fortitude to find the right help. Back to my statement, I can't be all things to all people, at the same time. I already was the chief accounting officer, still am the chief accounting officer. But I had to elevate to CFO and wear both hats.  And, so, making sure that I brought in some help to supplement where I knew I needed to step out, and being thoughtful about what that skill set looked like. Knowing that I wasn't going to be able to give every piece of the process, the time that I would have had I only been wearing the single hat.  And, so, I would say learning to let it go, it's very difficult. Learning to trust your people in a way, I was already trusting them. But I had to trust them in a whole new level, and they're all fantastic, but it's just a change in mindset. I think type A personalities tend to keep it close, and close to the vest, and understand all the moving pieces, and then you can release.  And, so, I had to get out of my comfort zone, greatly. And I had to figure out new ways, quite frankly, to manage my calendar, manage my availability for those team members. Provide the right level of support t...

Welcome to Count Me In, with your host, Adam Larson. In this episode, Adam is joined by Tim Hedley, the Executive in Residence at Fordham University and Shari Littan, Director, Corporate Reporting Research & Thought Leadership at IMA.  Join this thought-provoking discussion as they delve into the importance of internal controls, the evolving landscape of sustainability reporting, and the challenges and benefits organizations face in adopting sustainable business practices.Discover how the COSO framework, the gold standard for reliable reporting, has been adapted to include non-financial reporting objectives, aligning with the rise of sustainability and ESG reporting. Explore critical trends in the world of ESG reporting, from increasing regulations to stakeholder engagement and supply chain transparency.Learn from Tim and Shari as they share their insights on the challenges organizations face in implementing sustainable practices and balancing short-term profits with long-term sustainability goals. Understand the significance of internal controls in providing a basis for external assurance and building stakeholder trust in reported information.Full Episode Transcript:< Intro > Adam:            Welcome to another episode of Count Me In. In today's episode, joining us are two guest experts. Tim Hedley, who is Executive-in-Residence at Fordham University, and Shari Littan, Director, Corporate Reporting, Research and Thought Leadership at IMA. Our discussion revolves around the importance of internal controls and sustainability reporting. And how they enhance trust, accountability, and reliability of the reported information.  Tim and Shari share insights from the COSO framework. Which was developed to help improve confidence in all types of data and information. The landscape of sustainability reporting is constantly evolving, with shifting regulatory requirements and increased stakeholder expectations. We explore crucial trends; such as the focus on materiality and risk assessments, stakeholder engagement, supply chain transparency, and evolving reporting metrics. Let's get started, with this enlightening conversation.  < Music > Adam:            Shari, Tim, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We're really excited to be talking about COSO, internal control, and everything in that whole ESG world. But just for our listeners, who may be unfamiliar, you could've, probably, have heard the term COSO, or ICSR, and those things before, but maybe you're not familiar with those terms. Maybe, Shari, you could take a little bit of time and define, maybe, a high-level overview of what COSO is, the significant, internal control framework, and the purpose of the new documents. Shari:             I'd be happy to, thanks, Adam, it's great to be here. So COSO stands for Committee of Sponsoring Organizations and it came about in the late 1980s. It is a collaboration of five accountancy and auditing organizations. There's the American Accounting Association, which is an academic organization, primarily. AICPA, everyone is familiar. IMA, where we sit, and we primarily focus on the accountants and finance professionals in business, the in-house folks are ours. Institute of Internal Auditors, and FEI, Financial Executives International. So those five organizations make up COSO. COSO came about in the late 1980s, amid what was then the savings and loans crisis, and there was concern that the profession needed to do better. That we were starting to see major accounting failures, disclosure, litigation, regulation, questions. Are we doing the right things in the profession?" So the five accountancy organizations got together, and they said, "How are we going to resolve this? How are we going to promote trust and accountability in what we do, as a profession?" The focus became on this concept of internal controls, which we'll get to.  So in '92, after that, the COSO, as an organization, produced its first internal control framework. And then we can move forward to 1990s, late 1990s, 2000, the Enron, WorldCom's era, which led to Sarbanes-Oxley. And Sarbanes-Oxley, rather than looking at the substance of what a company needs to disclose, again, looked at the idea of governance process, auditing, and said, "In order to produce financial reports to the markets, you need to focus on your systems and your controls. You need management to speak to it, in your reporting system. You need auditors to address controls." We had the PCAOP. So we have this Sarbanes-Oxley, which created this idea of internal controls over financial reporting. And, although, Sarbanes Oxley didn't specifically say, "You must use the COSO framework." It was considered the best thing around, and it's become the gold standard in how to produce reliable financial or corporate reporting in more general. Now, in 2013, the framework was refreshed, we got a new internal control framework. And what it did, in the 2013 refresh, is it added the idea of non-financial reporting objectives. That was around the same time, about 10 years ago, when we started to see all kinds of sustainability integrated, ESG, reporting frameworks. And, so, though not express, what the framework did, in its refresh, was say "Yes, this is completely applicable to these types of activities and reporting." And, so, that leads us to where we are, today. Where, earlier, in 2023 we issued the internal control over sustainability reporting publication. And what the authors did, in that publication, was we looked at the existing internal control framework and said, "Okay, now we're seeing an acceleration of ESG or sustainability reporting and activities, performance and activities.  And that means we need good information, and that means we need quality information and transparency. Let's look at the COSO Internal Control Framework, and see how we can interpret it and apply it to these new forms of reporting. Adam:            Shari, I think that's a great overview. And, as you mentioned, there's the ever evolving nature of this new type of non-financial reporting, ESG reporting. There are shifts in regulatory compliance. We were just speaking before we started recording how this could change, or that could change, or this regulatory body can make a statement, at this moment, at this time, how this is constantly changing.  And, Tim, maybe, I'll ask you, how do you see this landscape changing? And what should organizations be, particularly, aware of, especially, with the ever evolving nature and things constantly moving? Tim:               Well, Adam, thank you, and thank you for having me here. The sustainability reporting landscape has rapidly changed, particularly, recently, to meet stakeholder expectation, and government regulations. And, Adam, your question could be an entire podcast, or a big section of this podcast if we had that kind of time, but I do see some critical trends, just some of the ones, from my perspective.  I mean, many pe...

Welcome to the Count Me In podcast with your host Adam Larson and special guest Dan DeGolier! In this episode, Adam and Dan, founder and CEO of Ascent CFO Solutions, dive into the fascinating world of AI and its application in the finance and accounting sectors. Discover how AI is enhancing efficiency and reducing errors, while also exploring the potential challenges and ethical considerations it presents. Join us as we explore the evolving landscape of AI in fractional leadership. Tune in now for an engaging discussion you won't want to miss!Full Episode Transcript: Adam:            Welcome back for another exciting episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we have a special guest joining us, Dan DeGolier. The founder and CEO of Ascent CFO Solutions. We start off by exploring current use cases of AI in the industry. Such as coding transactions and streamlining forecasting processes.  But as Dan points out, we're only scratching the surface of what AI can do. The potential for growth and efficiency is immense. But it's important to proceed with caution and be aware of the biases and ethical considerations that come along with it.  Throughout this episode we highlight the evolving role of finance and accounting professionals, in the age of AI, and how they can adapt to leverage its benefits. From bookkeepers, to CFOs, to fractional CFOs, AI has the power to enhance efficiency and transform the way we approach financial management. So grab your headphones, and join us as we uncover the exciting world of AI in accounting. Let's dive in. < Music > Well, Dan, we're so excited to have you on the podcast today, as we're going to talk about AI and fractional leadership. And just to get started, as we think about AI, how is it currently being applied to finance and accounting sectors? Obviously, it does things like enhance efficiency and reduce errors, but how is it being applied in those areas?  Dan:                Yes, thanks for having me on, Adam. It's a pleasure to meet you, pleasure to be here. I think we're just getting started, for one thing. AI, even though it's been around for a while, ChatGPT, GPT 4, and all those things, are relatively new to the mainstream. And, so, a lot of this stuff we're just starting to figure out right now.  Definitely, in the accounting side, we're starting to see some use cases for coding transactions and things like that. I think there are a lot of opportunities in our world, in the finance realm. When it comes to forecasting, to be able to streamline multiple scenarios and make iterations to financial models and forecasts.  I think that's an area that we're starting to see develop. And, then, things like pricing strategy and looking at different ways to price and run different scenarios around that. Using large language models, and data, and being able to bring in data and run multiple scenarios and see what things look like there. I think those are all some areas that we're starting to see.  But, honestly, because it's so early, what is really going to be the biggest use cases, two years from now, is probably something we haven't thought of. Or somebody's thought of but hasn't really been implemented, yet. Adam:            Yes, that's a great point, that we're so early in the generative AI phase that some organizations are adapting quickly, other ones aren't. And software companies are trying to integrate it into there but it's still in the early phases. So our traditional role- Dan:                And it's still prone to errors as well. Adam:            Exactly. Dan:                Yes, we've all read the articles about the lawyer who tried to use it for briefs and got in huge trouble, and the hallucinations are still rampant. So I think proceed with caution, but recognize that it has enormous potential and don't be left behind.  I was going to say, I've heard that it's been compared to if you look at Web 1.0, the emergence of the Internet, and commercial use, that this could be a 10x-type of opportunity. From a growth potential, from an efficiency potential, et cetera, it's just fascinating to me, just how massive this could be, and how life-changing this is. Adam:            Well, and also the bias that's implicit in there, in the AI. Because there are so many biases among how people think, wording, that's out there in the Internet and how it's learning. There's going to be that bias that you have to get over as well. Because it's going to be embedded in there because of how it is societally. Dan:                Correct, yes, I agree with that. I think one other ethical consideration that needs to be taken into account, when you're implementing AI, is things around copyright infringement, and intellectual property, and protection there. I think the chatbots aren't necessarily aware of what's IP and protected and what's not.  And, so, it's important that we take into that, that there's a human overseeing that, and making sure that there's nothing being taken out of context or being utilized improperly. And along the same lines, research is another area. Tax research and other types of accounting research is a place where there is a lot of use cases for AI.  But, again, this is where you need to be very careful around trusting that research and validating that it is accurate. So we don't end up in a situation, where something that's not valid is being utilized. Adam:            It's going to be very difficult to understand what has been verified and what hasn't, and as you're doing research and as you're looking at things online. I imagine new tools are going to have to be developed to verify, "Yes, this is valid." Or "No, it's not." And how do you trust those as you go forward? Dan:                Yes, that's really important, and there are going to be mistakes made. As we start to adopt this, we're going to see mistakes being made. And, as humans, we need to learn from our mistakes and learn from others' mistakes, that's how we evolve. Adam:            Mh-hmm. Do you think that the traditional roles in finance and accounting are going to change because of these? I mean, obviously, they are. But how can we adapt as we go forward? Dan:                Yes, I think, first thing I would suggest is pay attention to what's going on, see what's evolving, see where things are taking it. I think it's going to definitely change the accounting side, the day-to-day transactional stuff. There's a YouTuber out there, Hector Garcia, who has done some demos of how you can plug in a ChatGPT tool into QuickBooks Online, and how ...

Join host Adam Larson and special guest Paul McManus, as they discuss the importance of personal branding in today's accounting and finance industry, and how it can help you stand out from the crowd. Paul is a podcast host, the author of the book “The Short Book Formula” and the co-founder and CEO of More Clients More Fun.  Discover the power of writing and publishing a book as a means to enhance your personal brand and become a thought leader in your field. Explore practical tips and insights on how to effectively communicate your expertise, simplify complex concepts, and engage with both experts and non-experts alike. Don't miss this episode that will empower you to create expert status and level up your career as a financial professional.Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we have a special guest joining us, Paul McManus. To discuss the power of personal branding for accounting and finance professionals. Paul is a podcast host, the author of the book The Short Formula, and the co-founder and CEO of More Clients More Fun.  We'll explore why personal branding is crucial in today's competitive landscape, and how it can elevate your status as an expert in your field. Paul, an accomplished author, with multiple bestsellers on Amazon, will share his insights on how creating a book can enhance your personal brand and establish you as a thought leader. We'll also touch upon the challenges professionals face when approaching the idea of writing a book and how to overcome them. Let's get started. Paul, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast, today. We're really excited to talk about personal branding and becoming better versions of ourselves through that type of work. And, maybe, we can start off by talking about why things like personal branding are, especially, important for today's accounting and finance professionals. Paul:               Definitely. Thank you for having me, I appreciate being here. I think personal branding is one of the things, whether you're a small business owner, or whether you work at a firm, as a professional.  At the end of the day, when you're growing your business, or whether you're looking for promotions and to make a bigger impact in your world. Nothing, well, not nothing, but personal branding can be one of those things that help you differentiate yourself from everybody else.  One of the ways that I, primarily, focus on to help professionals with their personal branding is to help them write and publish a book. Which I know is something, again, I talk to a lot of financial professionals and I ask them if they've considered it, and many have. But it just seems like one of those daunting tasks that it's on someone's bucket list, but they never quite get to.  So, as part of the personal branding question that you asked, I'd love to deep dive, as appropriate, into how a book can really help accountants, and other finance professionals really take their personal brand to the next level. Adam:            Yes, definitely, when you think about writing a book, some people think, "Oh, no, I have to write this thousand-page book, and it's going to take six years, ten years of my life. But if anybody has looked at the show notes for this event, if they've looked at what you do. They've seen you written multiple books and they've been on Amazon bestseller. So how does creating that book really enhance your personal brand and elevate your status? Paul:               Yes, writing a book is one of those things that has a long history that people respect. I think there's really two things that help professionals stand out. One is writing a book, another is public speaking. There is the old quip from Jerry Seinfeld on the public speaking side that if you're at a funeral; would you rather be giving the eulogy or be in the casket? And the joke was, well, most people would rather be in the casket because they're terrified of public speaking.  But I think just the act of getting up and speaking in front of people, is just one of those things that most people are afraid of, and so they respect. It's the same thing for writing a book. It's something that just in our culture, there's a tremendous respect for someone who's put in the work, done the work, and who has written and published a book.  Because it's one of those things that really differentiate yourself from everybody else in the field. It's one of those things that people think about, talk about, and more often than not, never do. And there's a variety of benefits to doing it, personal branding be one of them, which we can go deeper on. And, then, there's also a variety of reasons why people never take that action. So, on the plus side, we want to be clear about why do it.  There's a great Simon Sinek talk about begin with why, and when your why is clear, then, you get that much more clear on the motivation and the how. And, so, let's talk about the why, from multiple ways to think about it.  So, again, if you are one of those professionals that does any work in the capacity, as a business owner. So let's say maybe you're a fractional CFO and you're looking to attract clients. Let's say that you work with clients themselves and, maybe, what you do is more difficult to understand. The ability to articulate your core knowledge through a book, way that is interesting and simplifies it to an outside audience. Especially an outside audience of non-experts, is a very powerful way simply to communicate.  I find that writing a book, it's a personal growth endeavor. Oftentimes you start with a blank page and you think, "Okay, what do I know about this topic?" And after a few minutes, you're like, "Oh, that's it." And, so, you have to say, "Wait a minute, I know more than this." And it really challenges you to think about what you know, and why is that important, and who's interested in that. How can you communicate that in a way that's effective? How can you use stories?  Oftentimes, especially, with accountants and other finance professionals, what I find is that there's a lot of jargon. There's a lot of technical terms. There's a lot of things that they understand implicitly through experience and study, but for a non-expert, they get lost. And, so, it's how do you communicate ideas in such a way that is relatable to whomever you're speaking to?  And, so, throughout that process, and we talked about personal branding a little bit, but it really helps you create leadership skills, communication skills, and those things all come together. And, so, whether you're looking to sell more, get a promotion, or simply be more effective at your job. The act of writing and publishing a book is an amazing vehicle to help supercharge those efforts. Adam:            Mm, yes, it's interesting because when you think about it, if you don't know how to explain what you're doing. If you don't know how to articulate it in a very good way. How can you be that storyteller, be that business partner? Whether you're in a f...

Join host Adam Larson and expert guest AJ Coleman in Count Me In’s latest episode. Get ready to dive into the world of internal control and fraud prevention.  AJ is an author and serves as Vice President, Fraud Manager at Byline Bank. He explores the importance of strong internal controls in detecting and preventing fraud, while sharing real-life examples of common types of fraud and how they're identified and dealt with. Don't miss out on this engaging and eye-opening conversation.Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into the world of fraud and internal control. Joining me is the incredible A. J. Coleman. He is an author, and serves as vice president and fraud manager at Byline Bank. Today, we'll be discussing the importance of strong internal controls, in detecting and preventing fraud, and how organizations can navigate through risks and vulnerabilities. A.J. will share some eye-opening examples of common fraud cases and explain how they are identified and dealt with. So if you want to learn more about the crucial role of internal control in combating fraud, you definitely don't want to miss this episode.  Well, A.J., I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Really excited to talk about internal control, and fraud, and just all the different things you have to do in that world. And I know you're an expert in this field, and I thought that, maybe, you could start by giving some examples of how things like strong internal controls can help by detecting fraud. Since I know you see this every day. A.J.:                Well, great to be here and the opportunity to talk fraud is always rewarding. But, yes, internal controls are really the key, is to be able to identify where there are opportunities or gaps, for the fraudsters to expose an organization. And that's really where the first thing you have to look at is where are we exposed, and what risks that are out there. And from there, you then start crafting those internal controls.●       How do you want them set up? ●       What do you want people's roles to be?●       How should things be escalated?  And there's a lot that we can go into that aspect. But without internal controls, nobody understands what the proper steps are, and how do you get that message to the expert. And in terms of fraud, fraud happens every day, and it happens in places that we least expect it. It could be anything from a personal thing, where somebody steals your information unknowingly. All the way up to somebody depositing a fictitious check in the ATM deposit, knowing that it's fictitious. And without internal controls, how do we detect this? How do we maneuver through those processes to, actually, review these transactions? And, then, at the end, do we need to escalate this up through leadership? Does it need to have a certain suspicious activity report filing? And without those internal controls in place is a free fall. Adam:            That makes a lot of sense, and it begs the question, chicken versus egg, do you have strong internal controls unless you've experienced fraud? Or can you have good internal controls, if you've never experienced fraud? What comes first in some cases? A.J.:                Well, a lot of depends on the leaders, and the type of the organization and how they set up their infrastructure. Some organizations are very passive and they are reactive, in terms of waiting for things to happen. Other organizations are saying, "Well, you know what? We're going to be active in this. We're going to be proactive." And a lot of that has to do with that leadership quality. In my opinion, from a fraud expert, you always want to work on the preventive. Because you can always build something, and then do your own risk assessments to determine if there are gaps exposed. Then work together to figure out how to close up those gaps. Instead, of just leaving it open-ended and waiting for the fraud to happen. And a lot of times people just sit because it's easier to wait till something happen, rather than be proactive and build something. Adam:            Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Being proactive does seem like the better option, but it all comes down to leadership and those things. Maybe, we could circle back to what are some of the most common types of fraud that you see in your line of work, maybe, there are some examples. I know you can't name any names, but, maybe, there are some examples you can give and how it was identified and dealt with. A.J.:                Check fraud, is number one on the list. I mean, you would think that in today's world, that we would be doing more electronic payments. But there are just amount of checks that go out on a daily basis. And, sometimes, people just it's easier to write checks, it's easier to send them through the system. But I will tell you the post office is compromised. We are seeing a lot of checks intercepted by third party individuals. Whether it's the postal workers themselves or they're in a partnership, maybe, with the fraudster or they've been approached, and we read things on the news where postal workers are held at gunpoint, their keys are taken, for mailbox. And all these fraudsters are looking for is just checks, where they can either wash them or they can do a forged endorsement on the back hoping that nobody will notice that. Check fraud, is unfortunately not going away, and in the last two years I've seen a significant increase. And there are certain controls that you can put in place, not only for the banks, or the institutions, or the companies, but also for the customers themselves. Positive Pay is really important, where you can look to see if you can be protected and be notified, if there's a counterfeit check that gets presented. You can do a payee Positive Pay, that looks at the payee information to see if it's been washed.  Alternatively, go with the electronic. It's a lot easier on the cash flow, but you also don't have to worry about a paper copy. So check fraud is definitely number one. The other thing we're seeing a lot is what we call Business Email Compromise, BEC, as it's known. And what this is, is with fraudsters, they penetrate into an organization. Whether it's through a phishing attack or other metrics, and what they do is they clone the server once they're in the organization. And they operate as if they are an authoritative figure and emailing different groups, different business units.As well as, maybe, even the financial institution changing payment information or making requests for ACH or wires to go out. And what happens once the clone server is done, the primary customer or the vendor has no idea. And the fraudsters are the ones that are letting certain emails go through, intercepting other emails. So, a lot of times, these customers have no idea that they've been compromised, as well, as they just quickly change that information and say, "Hey, we need to pay this person X amount of dollars." But nob...

Join host Adam Larson as he sits down with the brilliant entrepreneur and CEO of WTS Enterprises, Josh Fonger. In this episode, Josh delves into the captivating topic of the systems mindset for entrepreneurs and business owners. Uncover the secrets behind working on your business rather than in it and discover how this shift can drive exponential growth and success. Josh, with his wealth of knowledge and experience, reveals how business owners can streamline and optimize their processes, increasing profits and reducing time. If you're ready to take your business to the next level, don't miss this dynamic conversation with Josh Fonger.Full Transcript:< Intro > Adam:            Welcome back to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and I'm thrilled to have our special guest with us today, Josh Fonger. Josh is an experienced entrepreneur and the CEO of WTS Enterprises. In today's episode, Josh will enlighten us on the crucial difference between working in your business versus working on it. And why this shift is essential for growth, particularly, for business owners and entrepreneurs.  We'll discuss how getting caught up by day-to-day operations can hinder business growth, innovations, and long-term vision. Josh is an expert in helping companies navigate this challenge, by utilizing the Work the System, or WTS, method. He emphasizes the importance of backfilling our current tasks and responsibilities.  So we can jump ahead and lead our organizations effectively. But it's not just about the concept. Josh provides practical insight, on how to take action and implement a systematic approach to run a business. So get ready and gain some valuable insights, tips, and strategies. As we explore the power of a systems mindset, with our incredible guest. Let's dive right in. < Music > Adam:             Josh, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Really excited to talk about entrepreneurs, and that systems mindset that you talk about. But to get started, maybe, we can start by discussing the difference of working in your business versus working on it, and why that's essential for growth, especially, for business owners and entrepreneurs? Josh:               Yes, and this is not a new concept. I think people have been aware of this, heard this, for decades. Popularized by The E Myth, Michael Gerber's, bestselling book. And the key thing that I do is help companies, actually, make that happen. The big the big issue, of course, whether it's a manager, an owner, or a CEO, is that they are doing the work as a technician, instead of leading the work or growing the organization.  And, so, that's the key thing, is that if you're doing the work, then no one is doing the business growth, no one's doing the innovation, no one's doing the expansion. No one's casting the vision for the next series of years. Instead, they're talking about the next five minutes, and maybe the next five hours, and that's really the issue is that companies stay stuck when they're looking short term.  And, so, what I focus in on is helping, mechanically, because it's more than just an idea. They need to think differently, but then they, actually, have to take different actions. Is help business owners and leaders take those actions, in a methodical, mechanical way, so that they're backfilling what they're currently doing. Because you can't just jump ahead somebody's got to do the work.  And, so, there needs to be a way, which we call working the system, or the WTS method, a way to backfill what you're currently doing. So you can jump ahead and lead the organization. And, the idea, again, simple enough, work on the business instead of in the business. But, mechanically, and infrastructure-wise, to do that takes some heavy lifting, some rolling up of the sleeves. That's what we want all of our clients to get is that, there's a process you can take. And if you work the process, you work your systems, that freedom and that growth will become a mechanical reality. Adam:            So maybe we can dig in in a little bit more into this work, this system method that you're talking about. I know that you have a book, that we'll put a link in the show notes for everybody, maybe, you can talk a little bit more about that. How does that enable your business owners to do things like increase profits, reduce time? I know those are a lot of things that you speak about, maybe we can talk a little more detail on that. Josh:               Yes, so everyone uses all their time, and everyone, essentially, uses all of their resources, and so you're bound by those. And, so, the way to expand your business, expand your life, is to do a better job with those resources. And, so, working the system is all about getting more efficient. And, so, how do we do that? Well, we help people not just react to the problems of their business or the stimuli that's coming their way. But instead, take charge or take control of the systems that they know are going to keep happening.  So instead of just reacting to a phone call coming in. Instead, manage or control that system, so that you and your team know how to answer the call, to be the best with it. And let's just say answering the phone is one of 300 different systems that maybe your company has. And instead of winging each system and following it the way you've always done it before.  If you take the time to look at each system, as a separate entity, and then figure out what is the best way to make it the fastest, the lowest cost, the highest efficiency, the highest profitability. What are the ways we can optimize each of those little pieces, which can be done if they're written down and looked at, objectively? You're going to find that the assemblage of those separate pieces are going to result, we're talking to math folks here, accountants, the result is going to be a much better business. It's not going to be surprise when your company is running way better, way more profitably, when the separate pieces, that make up your business, are each improved by 5%, 10%, 20%. Each of these pieces are then going to equate to a multiple of what you ever thought possible. Because we work with companies, everyone's already working hard. Everyone's already doing their best.  And, so, we let them know, "You have to work differently, if you're going to expand beyond your current best." Because everyone's already trying their best. Everyone's already working hard, everyone's already maxed out.  So knowing that plateau is already reached, in the organizations we work with, the goal is, "Okay, well, now we're going to have to work differently. We're going to have to work in a different way." And that's going to be working on these separate systems. Adam:            So a lot of times when you say the word systems, people think these are different softwares that I'm using, or different things like that. But you're talking systems as more of all the processes that...