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Dive into the fast-paced and exciting world of artificial intelligence with our podcast series! Join our expert guests, Dr. Mfon Akpan and Dr. Scott Dell, as they unravel the mysteries of AI, explore the cutting-edge developments in language models like ChatGPT, and discuss the massive impact of these technologies on industries like accounting. From the thrilling acceleration of AI adaptation to ethical concerns and security implications, this podcast explores it all. Tune in to stay at the forefront of one of the hottest topics in technology today!Connect with our speakers:Dr. Mfon Akpan - https://www.linkedin.com/in/drmfonakpan/Dr. Scott Dell -  https://www.linkedin.com/in/drscottcpa/SF Magazine Article by our speakersFull Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into the world of AI. A subject that has been making waves across industries. Transforming the way we work, communicate, and think. With me are our esteemed guests; Dr. Mfon Akpan, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Methodist University. And Dr. Scott Dell, Assistant Professor of Accounting at Francis Marion University. They bring a wealth of knowledge and insights into AI's history, its current impact, and what's on the horizon.  We'll discuss everything from AI's phenomenal growth; to its applications, ethics, security concerns, and much more. So buckle up and let's embark on this fascinating journey into the digital revolution. Adam:            Mfon and Scott, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We're really excited we're going to be talking about AI and ChatGPT, and all that comes underneath that. And we're really excited to have this because this is a very hot topic, and people are talking about it. You see articles about it every day. You see updates, you see leaders writing letters saying, "Let's stop all AI for six months." Et cetera. Maybe we could just start at a high level. What is AI? What are these chat bots? What are these things doing for us? Scott:              Amazing tool, and thank you for having us. It's a pleasure to be here and to share. I'll kick things off, Mfon, if it's all right. This artificial intelligence has been around for over 60 years. So you say, "Wait a minute, why is it so new?" Well, what's new is the capabilities because of the computing power we now have. And the tool is amazing; it is changing life as we know it. We haven't seen the likes of this since the printing press. It's an environment that can really do things, change work, augment work, replace work, but makes things better. Your thoughts, Mfon? Mfon:             Yes, and I think some of the excitement around it is that we haven't seen this type of growth, in a platform as well. So you think about it was released, November 30th 2022. Five days, the platform got a million users. So you think about in 2010, it took Instagram two and a half months to get to a million users. So there's a lot of excitement, and then there's a lot of acceleration and speed around the platform, as well. Scott:              As a follow up to that, 100 million users mark was reached in two months. Compared to TikTok, I think, it was nine months to get that far, that fast. So it has been an amazing adaptation of the technology. Adam:            So maybe we can talk a little bit about how does it work. And, then, from there, maybe, talk about what benefits it may have for the accounting profession as a whole. Mfon:             Well, it's a language model, so it has an interface. So you're able to go to the platform, you go to the website, and you're able to ask it questions, or you can copy and paste information and ask it to do things. So from the profession side, if you're asking it to solve problems. You can ask it to solve a problem, or you can have it write an email, write a letter, it can produce content for you. Scott:              And as Mfon mentioned, it is an LLM, one of those three-letter acronyms, a large language model. But what it does is it projects words. So it looks at the previous word and it says, "Mm, what would the next logical word be?"                          Which, sometimes, if you've ever played the game of telephone, as a kid, sometimes, you get to the end of that line and nothing resembles how it started out. And that sometimes happens, as well, with the ChatGPT and GPT-4 environment. Because it is projecting with probabilities, "Yep, I think this is the next word." And sometimes it's dead wrong. It's called hallucinating, it's the actual technical term. Mfon:             It does hallucinate. But what's so fascinating when you use it, it is projecting. But I guess it feels like you get the impression that it's thinking, even though it's not thinking. So you can ask it questions and it will give you answers, so there's that interaction. But it is projecting and it does, sometimes, hallucinate, or make up answers, give you false information.  Scott:              And the fear I really have, in the hands of professionals, we can, probably, take a look and say, "Oh, this isn't quite right. This is illogical." But for a novice, and for newbies like our students, they will look at this and say, "The English is so good. It just flows so, logically, it must be right." And it's not, although, often enough it is right. So there's a balance. Adam:            Yes, so talking about people using it. Obviously corporations, people within corporations, within organizations, are using it. Within the accounting profession are using it, and people are having to create policies. There are new workarounds coming out there. People are saying, "Okay, you can use this, but you can use it for that." I saw one example, where somebody put in a fake balance sheet and said, "Analyze this for me." And it gave a really interesting analysis. Then, you have to worry, "Oh, am I putting somebody's data into this thing?" And you have to worry about those things. And, so, how can this tool be used for management accounting? In the accounting space, obviously, without giving away too much personal data? Scott:              Security consciousness is we need to be there. I mean, you're hearing about the deepfakes. I just heard about a scandal in Hong Kong, a banker that sent millions of dollars, based on what so...

In today's challenging business landscape, organizations need to adapt, innovate, and maximize efficiency more than ever. In today’s episode of Count Me In, we dives into the heart of support functions within organizations, discussing the current markets in 2023 and the inevitable squeeze that many businesses face. Our Guest Kevin Herring, president and founder of Ascent Management Consulting, discusses how you can leverage expertise within your organization as cuts and reorganizations loom on the horizon. Kevin will unpack the role of accountants, finance, IT, HR, engineering, supply chain, and more in optimizing the resources they have in the organization. Discover how you can shift your mindset, change how you operate, and bring your expertise to bear on critical situations.Connect with Kevin:https://ascentmgt.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/the90dayturnaround/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome to another episode of Count Me In. Today's world is filled with uncertainty, and with 2023 looking like a challenging year, organizations are feeling the squeeze. Our guest, today, Kevin Herring, president and founder of Ascent Management Consulting. Brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to our discussion, on support functions within organizations.  We'll explore how businesses can optimize their existing resources, transform their thinking, and redefine roles to survive and thrive in these turbulent times. It's time to reimagine your organization's potential. So let's dive right into this essential conversation. Kevin, I want to thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast. I'm really excited to have you on. As we talk about support functions within organizations. And as we both know that the markets, in 2023, are not looking great. The futures are not looking great. And it's going to put a squeeze on many organizations. And can we start talking about, within organizations. How you can leverage expertise, within your organization, as cuts and reorganizations are going to have to start coming? Kevin:            Yes, that's a great question. How do we do that? And I think that you're right. Everything that we read, everything that we hear CEOs are saying that they're hunkering down. They're planning for a rough 2023, possibly 2024, and they really have to maximize, maybe, a better way to put it is to optimize the resources that they have in the organization to get through it. And our support functions play a critical role in that.  Every organization has a lot of natural slack in the system. And, sometimes, we don't realize it until we really start to drill down and look at what's working, what's not working, that sort of thing. And what we find is that when you talk to people, when you talk to teams, and ask them, are they contributing everything that they could possibly contribute to the organization?  Not are they working as hard as they can, but are they contributing everything? Do they have capabilities that are not being used? Do they have information, understandings of things that are not being tapped? And the answer is almost always, "Absolutely, yes. I'm doing the best I can with what I have, but I could do so much more for the organization, if they just let me." And people and staff functions play such a critical role. Accountants, finance folks, IT, HR, engineering, supply chain, all those functions can play a huge role in maximizing or optimizing the use of our resources. The people that actually produce the product. The people that actually interface with the customers directly. And one of the ways they can do that is really to take a different look, maybe, than they have, historically, about their role in the organization.  So here are a couple of ways to do that. One is to think, when I go to work each day, how do I see myself? And this is not just a semantic exercise. But do I see myself as an accountant who just happens to work at XYZ manufacturing company, for instance? Or do I see myself as an XYZ business person, who happens to bring accounting expertise to the organization? And it's a different way of thinking about my role, "Why I'm here?""What am I supposed to do in this organization?" Am I just supposed to perform a bunch of tasks related to accounting? Or am I actually supposed to do things that, sometimes, might even stretch me a bit outside of my area of expertise. To help the business, overall, to be successful and to look for those opportunities?  And, so, when we do that, we start recognizing that for an organization to get the full use of our expertise. We need to think of ourselves in terms of how can we bring our expertise to bear on the critical situations that the organization is dealing with. The critical issues they're dealing with, "How do I do that?". And that's a consulting role, that's not an activity role. That's not a compliance or regulatory role, that's a consulting role.  That's where we're looking for ways that we can help those who are in the core business. To produce more efficiently, more effectively, to satisfy the customer better. To produce better products, higher quality, optimized, profitability, reducing cycle time, all those sorts of things, delighting the customer. Those are all things that anyone in a support function has the ability to help with. If they think of ways to apply their expertise in solving existing problems, and preparing the organization to handle possible future issues.  So that's a shift in thinking, it's also a change in how we operate. Because now, if I'm a consultant, I need to learn how to be a consultant. I need to learn consulting skills. I need to learn how to identify opportunities, diagnose problems, gather data, assess it, and determine how I can solve that problem. Or determine if maybe I don't have the expertise to solve it. Who might have that expertise, and be willing to source that for those in the core business that are struggling. That's a different role, for a lot of people. Adam:            That is a different role. And it's almost like within your internal organization, your title may be Chief Financial Officer or Chief Staff Accountant. But what you're saying is that your mindset needs to be that of a consultant, to better help the organization. So how do you start changing that mindset so that you can better help? Kevin:            Yes, well, first you have to decide who your client is. And this is a problem for a lot of people. Most people, when you ask them, "Who's your client?" They point to their boss. That's the client or the boss's boss, the CEO or the CFO. That's who they really serve in the organization, and that's not an effective mindset to have. Sure, those people play a critical role, but as bankers, really as bankers. People who provide the assets, the resources, the budgets, the tools and supplies, and things you need to be able to take your expertise and apply it to the core business. They want a return on those assets. So they're going to extend the resources for you to be able to use them in a productive way, for the organization.  And, so, that begs the question — Who is the real client? Well, the places where you ca...

In this riveting episode of the Count Me In Podcast, we dive into the complex world of cybersecurity within the accounting profession. Join us as we sit down with Tom Woolley, CEO of Today CFO and Founder of  Today Cybersecurity, who has navigated the transitions from corporate industry to founding his own cloud accounting firm, and then into cybersecurity for accountants. Discover the biggest challenges faced by organizations today, from integration headaches to the buffet of software solutions. Whether you are a Fortune 100 company or a mom-and-pop shop, you'll gain insights into striking the right balance with technology to ensure information security. With regulations tightening, get ahead of the curve with expert advice and real-world solutions. Don't miss out on this episode – tune in now!Connect with Tom:* Website: www.todaycybersecurity.com * Tom's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-w-2b6256173/ * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/todaycyber * Twitter: https://twitter.com/todaycyber_ * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/todaycybersecurity/ * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/today-cybersecurity/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:    Welcome to another enlightening episode of Count Me In. Today we have an exceptionally exciting conversation lined up for you. Our guest today is my fellow podcaster, and an author on Amazon's bestseller list, Tom Wooley. He has expertise in corporate accounting. Spanning sectors like pharmaceuticals, oil, and gas, and now he's making waves in the realm of cybersecurity.  From big corporations to small businesses, the tech landscape is ever-changing, and Tom's insights are here to guide us through it. We'll discuss;The rapid shift to remote work. The challenges of secure information handling. The complexities of selecting the right software. And the impact of new regulations.  Buckle up, as we explore how technology is shaping the future of accounting. Tom, welcome to the show. Adam:            To start off, I just really wanted to, maybe, you can talk a little bit about your background and how you got here. Tom:               Hi, Adam, thanks so much. It's a pleasure to be here. So I've been an accountant for 15 years, in the corporate industry before starting my own firm. I started off in pharmaceuticals, and then went to oil and gas in more of the financial analysis role and a lot of management accountancy. One of the things I used to do a lot of was whenever we would acquire a new company, we had to look at their financial systems. What they had in place, and then integrate them into our SAP financial system. All their historicals, and then get them trained, up and running for the future. So I got a lot of experience, and had a lot of fun working in accounting technology in my corporate career. And then decided that, "Hey, there's a lot of technology to be brought or to be moved over and implemented in the small business accounting world as well. Smaller firms need just as much tech, if not more, sometimes, than the big guys. And with the way the technology world is moving, especially, with everything going over to the cloud. I decided to start my own cloud accounting firm, back in 2015. And, then, when everybody started going remote, in 2020, I decided that was a good time to pivot again and go into cybersecurity, for accountants. And help other people tackle some of those issues that we saw as we transitioned to a lot of people working from home, remote, and just coping with a very wild and flexible world, over the last couple of years. Adam:            Yes, it's been a very wild and flexible world. There's been so many things happening with everybody working from home, and all the challenges that organizations face. And cybersecurity is something that's in the news every day. You see ransomware attacks, and so many different things that's affecting so many organizations. Maybe we can start by talking a little bit about what are some of the biggest challenges you see organizations facing, when it comes to cybersecurity. Tom:               Absolutely, there are a couple of things that really hit home. It's how to keep everybody working in a fluid environment. Where you can access all of your information securely. How can you find your clients' information securely? How can you receive it from them securely? We work in a time where we've got so many different communication channels. We have to actually tell our clients what is a safe and good way to get your information over to us.  And when we started transitioning from working in the office to working from home, the biggest challenge that we faced, and that other accountants are facing is–how do you go mobile with all of that? How do you keep it in the cloud and know that it's secure? And, really, importantly, how do we instill that trust relationship with our clients. So that they know that their information is in good hands? And we started looking at so many different software out there.  The second challenge is with a huge buffet of cloud software. Which one goes with which? How does it integrate? And it really came down to what does the process look like, for internally and externally with our clients? And that's what we hear a lot; is which software should I use?  How do I implement it?  There are some all-in-ones out there. Should I piecemeal, together, best in class? And there are just so many solutions. Accountants don't have time for that, especially, during tax season, which has been basically year-round for the last couple of years. Adam:            Yes, I can only imagine. And also the biggest challenge, too, is if you're a Fortune 100 company, you have a lot more financial ability to get a larger software. A big all-in-one software. But if you're a smaller organization, or a Mom-and-pop shop, it's a lot harder to implement those bigger softwares. And, so, trying to find that challenge; how do you balance that depending on which organization you're with? Tom:               Yes, that's a great question. There are smaller softwares like QuickBooks Online and Dropbox, that people, typically, use when they're starting off. All the way up to SAP or NetSuite when they're the Fortune 100. So it really comes down to what is the budget and how customizable does it need to be. Something like NetSuite requires not just getting the software, but hundreds or thousands of hours of customization, and implementation, and training. And what we really want to go for is finding out how the firm is interacting interna...

Unlock the mystifying world of cryptocurrencies and blockchain in this enlightening episode of Count Me In. Join our guest host Kelly Richmond Pope, accounting Professor and author, as she speaks with Lamont Black, an Associate Professor of Finance at DePaul University.  They navigate us through the complexities of blockchain technology, its relevance to accounting and financial services, and the turbulent landscape of cryptocurrency exchanges. Lamont takes a deep dive into how blockchain serves as the foundation of cryptocurrencies, elaborates on its inherent security and transparency, and paints a picture of its significant role in the future of digital commerce. We will also unpack the rise and fall of crypto prices, the risks involved, and how to safely engage with cryptocurrency exchanges. No matter whether you're a finance professional grappling with the challenges of a rapidly digitizing economy, or a curious listener wanting to unravel the world of cryptocurrency, this episode is an invaluable resource.Connect with Lamont and Kelly:https://www.linkedin.com/in/lamontblack/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-richmond-pope-cpa-83689a5/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome to another enlightening episode of Count Me In. Where we delve into the pressing issues shaping our world and the business landscape. Today, we have the privilege of hearing a wonderful conversation between our guest host, Kelly Richmond Pope, accounting professor and author, and Lamont Black, an Associate Professor of Finance at DePaul University. They discuss an issue that is at the forefront of finance innovation; cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. Lamont brings his vast knowledge and expert insights to help demystify these complex topics and explain their relevance to the finance industry. So whether you're a CFO, a controller, a finance professional, or simply a curious listener, prepare for a deep dive exploration into the world of blockchain and cryptocurrencies. Let's get started. Kelly:              So Lamont, thank you so much for joining me, today. And if you could start by just introducing who you are. Lamont:         So I'm an associate professor of finance in the Driehaus College of Business at the DePaul University. So I'm one of your colleagues. Kelly:              You are one of my colleagues. And, so, I want to welcome you to the IMA podcast series. And I have been working with the IMA, a little over a year. Working in research and thought leadership about ethics, corporate governance, risk, and you know my favorite love, fraud. And as we watch the news, read the news, what has just been in the news, so much, in the past, I'd say 18 months, is this really weird word called cryptocurrency.  And when I came to you, originally, about trying to understand what in the world is cryptocurrency. What you shared with me was how important it was to understand blockchain. And what I want to do, today, is have you really break down the importance of understanding blockchain. Because what I think the world is getting a little scared about is when you keep hearing about cryptocurrency, these exchanges that are falling apart. And, I think, everybody is really skeptical of this concept of cryptocurrency. But what I know you feel is, though, people might be scared of that. But you still need to understand the soundness and the value of the underlying technology, which is called blockchain. So could you tell us a little bit about what blockchain is and why we need to know about it as managerial accountants? Lamont:         Yes, so blockchain is the platform behind cryptocurrency. And blockchain is a technology, that, I think, everyone should be trying to understand. It's really a system of shared record keeping. So if you think about how we now live, in the information age, most of what we do is involving data. That data is being stored and shared using different systems, today. Whether that's on the cloud or other types of servers, and the blockchain is a way of sharing information. So that it's recorded on a shared ledger. So you can really think of blockchain as a system of accounting. And what makes it different is that rather than these ledgers being held in a private form. Different ledgers on different institutions that, then, have to communicate, blockchain cuts across all those silos. It's a way of recording information across an entire network. Sharing that information with the network, that makes it very secure, very transparent, and very efficient for sharing information.  So as we move deeper and deeper into the digital economy and e-commerce. I think every organization should be trying to understand how do we store and share information on the internet. I think blockchain is likely that next platform. And, so, even in the world of accounting, this is where things are likely headed. Kelly:              So that's a great explanation, and it really makes me feel a lot more comfortable in understanding that. Although, I hear all this craziness about cryptocurrency, and cryptocurrency is just where you shouldn't put your money. You've made me feel a lot more comfortable about why I need to understand blockchain. But let me digress, for a second, what in the world is going on with all that we hear about FTX, and the collapse of these exchanges? What is that conversation even about? And how does that affect or how should it affect our opinion of blockchain? Lamont:         Yes, so cryptocurrency is the money that is transferred across public blockchains like Bitcoin and Ethereum. And, so, people can own Bitcoin and Ethereum as digital assets, and crypto prices ran up, dramatically, during COVID. There are different arguments for why that occurred.  But one of them would be the amount of monetary stimulus. As people had all these different sources of income coming in. Let's say through stimulus checks in the form of fiscal stimulus, that money flowing into the economy. A lot of that ended up in crypto. And, so, Bitcoin almost reached $70,000 for one Bitcoin by late 2021. And as we moved into this year and our economy started to slow, inflation started to rise, largely as an outcome of COVID, crypto prices started to collapse.  Now, some people focus on the collapse of the crypto market as being something unique. But I just would point out that the stock market also entered bear market territory in the first half of this year, and in particular, tech stocks. So tech stocks are very risky. And, so, speculative assets during an economic slowdown, those prices tend to fall the most.  I view crypto as a form of technology. It's the frontier of technology. So, to me, it's no surprise that as risky assets have sold off this year, crypto has gotten hit the hardest. Now, as it relates to the exchanges, that's really been the problem this year. Because most people when they buy crypto, they buy it on an exchange like Coinbase, here in the US, or FTX, which was an offshore exchange headquartered in the Bahamas.  No...

Join us in this episode of Count Me In as we welcome our esteemed guest, Nykema Jackson, Head of Reporting, Policy and Technical Accounting at Airbnb. As we navigate the tides of remote work, hybrid models, and the aftershocks of the 'Great Resignation,' Nykema shares her insights into the art of staff development and leadership in these changing times. Discover how organizations can keep their staff engaged, foster open and trusting relationships, and leverage technology for connectivity and team building. Nykema also delves into the importance of empathy, clear vision, and timely feedback in creating a culture that inspires employees to stay and grow. Tune in to decode the leadership formula for the new world of work. Connect with Nykema: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nykemajackson/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Hello and welcome to Count Me In. The podcast that brings you the latest insights and practical advice on leadership, accounting, management, finance, and business. I'm your host Adam Larson, and today we are delighted to have Nykema Jackson with us. With a rich background in consulting and a significant leadership role in corporate America. She's here to share her views on the pressing issue of our time; staff development and leadership in the era of remote and hybrid work models.  As we explore the new paradigms that have emerged in the wake of the Great Resignation, let's dive into the conversation to learn how we can foster engagement, trust, and growth in these transformative times. Please join me in welcoming Nykema to the show. [00:00:43]       < Music > Adam:            So, Nykema, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We're really excited to have you on, and today we're going to be talking about staff development and leadership. Which is a big topic today because in the last three years we've seen a lot of changes. With the change to working from home. And, then, now, as things have gone back, going back to hybrid. And we've had terms like The Great Resignation and quiet quitting being thrown at everybody.  And, so, as we're talking about that, can we maybe discuss, from your perspective, how do you see an organization can keep their staff engaged and continue to develop them in the midst of all this? Nykema:        Sure, and thanks so much for having me. One thing that I've seen in my career, and I've come from a consulting background and, currently, I'm in corporate America working for a company. I've seen that individuals need leadership that knows and is very intimately versed in the mission of the company. That is invested in their employees. And investments from a learning and development perspective, as well as investing in them as a person.  And, so, COVID has brought around this environment where we've merged lives. We had our work cells before we had our personal cells, and now those things have come together. I find that it's critically important to recognize and acknowledge that in people, and to support them down both avenues. And when someone feels invested in and developed, and they know the mission that they're marching towards. I feel that turnover is less and you can get around the big resignation. Adam:            So I completely agree. As you continue to engage people, they will stay where they are. But, then, there's also the quiet ones who aren't really as engaged with what's happening. You can develop, and you can pour yourself into the people who are engaged and want to be there. But how do you grab those folks who are not quite there and want to be there? Nykema:        So one of the things I do, personally, are one-on-one check-ins with my directs, and sometimes I do skip levels. You'd be amazed that for those quieter ones, how much they open up in a one-on-one environment. I think people need to know from leadership, and I feel like sometimes we get lost in our own trajectory and progression. We don't realize that as we rise in the ranks, there is a level of intimidation for people. So you need to make it an open-door policy, and you need to make people feel comfortable to come to you. And one way to do that is to develop relationships.  But it takes a concerted effort on the leader to make time for that. Because it's not that time is on our side in a lot of situations, and COVID has created an additional barrier around that. Where people can't just pop in your office, they can't just see you in the hallway. They can't just strike up a conversation around the coffee machine.  They have to be deliberate and intentional on making those relationships and fostering that along the way. And the only way to do that is to schedule the time. So that it can start to become organic. Where they feel more comfortable with their relationship, with leadership, and they'll come to you naturally. Adam:            Yes, it's almost like you need to create some open-door Zoom call or open-door office hours on Teams, where people can just pop in at any time. Where they're able to do that, and the technology is out there. And how has technology helped you in the midst of the COVID era and able to reach out to people? Nykema:        So, for me, COVID has opened up a whole universe of additional time, for me, it's saved me a commute. So I've been able to use technology, in a way, to connect with people, and I make it less transactional. So some folks get a little intimidated by being on screen.  And, so, one thing that I've done is I don't multitask while I'm on calls. I silence my email so that I can really focus on individuals. And with the use of technology, we're able to do teaming events virtually. Sometimes we'll do happy hours, where we'll send a bottle of wine to individuals. I haven't done that on my current team, so don't tell them.  But in the past, I've sent bottles of wine, or if there's something that they like around coffee, or something, gourmet, I would send that, and then we would have a virtual outing. And it gives people the flexibility to still be there for their families, and their children, and whatever extracurricular activities that they have. But we can, literally, pick any time of the day to do this now. Versus sequestering it to the end of the day. Adam:            Yes, our team did a virtual wine and painting. Where they sent the wine and the painting thing, and then the person did it through Zoom and show us. And we'd all sit there painting, and drinking our wine, and it was actually quite fun. More fun than I realized it would be, doing it virtually. I never thought it could be like that. Nykema:        Absolutely. Adam:            Do you have any other examples of how you've been able to develop your team, in the midst of the COVID era. Even before the COVID era, where it was difficult for the team members to connect. Nykema:        So one th...

In this illuminating episode of the Count Me In, we sit down with our esteemed guest, Janis Parthun, VP, Advisory & Project Services at RGP. She is a leading voice in the world of Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG). Dive into the intricacies of ESG, understand its importance in a business context, and explore its different facets - from the environmental to the social and governance perspectives. We also delve into the challenges companies face in implementing ESG strategies, discussing the evolving regulatory landscape and offering insight into the best practices adopted by forward-thinking businesses. Whether you're an industry veteran looking to refine your ESG approach or a newcomer eager to implement an ESG program, this episode is brimming with valuable insights.Connect with Janis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janisparthun/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome to another exciting episode of Count Me In. Today we have a special guest with us, Janis Parthun. VP, Advisory and Project Services, at RGP. She is an expert in the field of Environmental, Social, Governance or ESG, as many of us know it.  Janis brings a wealth of knowledge providing a fresh perspective on the complexities and significance of ESG. She will walk us through the intricacies of ESG, discuss its growing prominence, and share valuable insights on its implementation. So if you're looking to understand ESG better, and how we can add value to your business model, this is one episode you won't want to miss. Let's dive right in. Janis, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast. As we go into today, we're going to be talking about ESG or Environmental, Social, and Governance, and we hear a lot about that. IMA talks a lot about that. We've been publishing articles. There's a lot of things happening in the industry. But maybe we can start off just at a higher level and talk about what does it mean, what does it represent, in an organization? Janis:              Yes, Adam, happy to do that. The term ESG or Environmental, Social, and Governance can really differ just depending on who you speak to. But I'd like to establish some initial background here. Where environmental focuses on the company's impact on the environment. On the risks, and opportunities associated with the impact of climate change on the company, its business, and its industry.  Social may focus on the company's relationship with people and society, or whether the company's investing in its community. And governance focuses on issues such as how the company is run, and possibly connect to executive compensation.  So ESG has been an important element to organizations approach to create value, as part of the business model, and just to the greater society impact. But what does this entail? Is what I often hear. And to elaborate a little bit more, a company's overarching ESG program will likely have top priorities determined around ESG matters. With goals, which includes metrics and possibly targets for future outlook has been set and established. To reach the goals and the targets, the company may have various initiatives and action, in order to support the goals. For example, a company may have climate change as one of its ESG priorities or material topics, and a goal to reduce emissions with the target of 40% by 2040. The organization, then, may have an initiative or a project to convert all transportation fleets to electric vehicles, as a strategy to reduce the emissions.  But when we're discussing ESG, at the overarching program or program level, this is applicable across multiple material topics or priority topics. Now, the topic of ESG is not new, and there are significant funds and investments around this.  Currently, over 96% of the S&P 500 already, voluntarily, publish sustainability reports in some form or fashion. But an increasing interest from parties to invest, and companies wanting to communicate or report on ESG. Regulatory and standard-setting bodies are also paying attention to how companies are reporting on ESG matters. Adam:            Definitely, and you see a lot of the bigger organizations implementing it. But smaller organizations may not quite be ready or there, yet. And if you are one of those organizations that are saying, "You know what, I want to jump into this, get into this." What are some steps that a typical company might undergo to establish an ESG-type program? Is there a specific, strategic, approach that you need to take when you're implementing that? Janis:              Yes, that's a great point, Adam, and there is a recommended strategic approach to this. So the other aspect to think about is the ESG strategic roadmap or steps that companies, typically, may undergo to establish an ESG program. First, is really having to determine materiality. This is driven by stakeholder and market input, industry profile, business strategy, and suggested standards and frameworks. And, then, setting goals and targets and execute on the reporting.  So establishing process and oversight to have that accountability, and report or update related to performance metrics. And, then, establishing quality control. Establish process and governance to ensure the quality control of the data that's collected or reported, and of course, reevaluate in that cycle.  But, more often than not, companies are encountering challenges, during the midpoint stages of executing on the ESG program strategy. And this includes adhering to regulations, standards and frameworks, and just trying to stay current and up to date. There are several in the horizon, and it's a lot going on for companies to navigate through. Program management and governance, having organizational governance over the ESG program, and monitoring and tracking against existing goals, appropriately, and evaluating progress. For example, do you have a governance process around adding or revising priorities or metrics? And monitoring the actions or involved in ESG committee that helps govern the goals set and tracked. And data quality management; is the information reliable?  For example, is the information collected comprehensive to the metrics being tracked? Such as inclusive the various regions and markets. Is that information reliable? Such as is it trackable or include supporting details. And with each of these challenges, it's important to pull the right resources in to help and address. Adam:            Before we get too much into the details of program management and those challenges. You've mentioned, a few times, about different regulating bodies have been watching in certain areas. There are regulations and new standards coming up, and that can be challenging for anybody and everybody. A lot of people are overworked. People are getting stressed out, and the idea of having more regulations to follow can be very stress inducing. But, maybe, you can talk a little bit more about how it's affecting companies and what people can expect? Janis:              Yes, I can, definitely, elaborate that a little bit more, Adam, and dive a little bi...

Welcome to a brand-new episode of 'Count Me In' where we break down complex financial concepts into simple, understandable terms. In this episode, we unravel the mysteries of cryptocurrency and explore its volatile nature. We're joined by Jason Cozens, the CEO and Founder of Glint, who shares his insights into the current state of the market and explains why cryptocurrencies have become such a significant player in the global economy. Plus, we dive into the golden alternative, exploring how gold has held its purchasing power over thousands of years and how innovative technologies, like Glint, have made gold a feasible medium of exchange. Whether you're a crypto enthusiast or a gold advocate, this episode is packed with valuable insights that will help you navigate the world of alternative currencies.Connect with Jason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncozens/ Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Hello and welcome to another episode of Count Me In. Today we're diving headfirst into the complex and ever-evolving world of cryptocurrencies. We're excited to have Jason Cozens with us. The CEO and founder of Glint, a global fintech platform.  He's an expert in cryptocurrencies and alternative currencies, and he'll be sharing his extensive knowledge about the current state of the market. Why cryptocurrencies exist, in the first place, and their inherent risks. He'll also shed light on the appeal of gold, as a stable, risk-off asset, and how it's been modernized for everyday transaction with technologies like Glint. So if you're curious about the state of cryptocurrencies, or the power of gold, as an alternative, this episode is a treasure trove of information. Let's dive in. Jason, I just want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Really excited to have your expertise around cryptocurrencies and alternative currencies, in the market. And maybe we can start off by discussing cryptocurrencies and the state of that market, as it stands right now.  Jason:             Yes, sure, well, I mean, before we start looking at exactly the state of the market, now. I think it's also important to understand why the market even exists and, then, just to touch on that for a second. Why do we even have crypto currencies?  My movement into alternative currencies started in 2008 like a lot of people's journeys did for this. Where they realize that banks are not risk-free deposits of funds. When you put your money in the bank, it ceases to be yours. That money is put at risk, and it is lent out, it's a liability of the bank. And that's a problem for people and a problem for businesses that have money, and want to be able to put it into those banks. And, of course, we get all kinds of insurances from the FDIC et cetera.  But, at some point, they're going to change the rules, and they've already passed legislation called bail-in rather than bailout. Which means that when, next time, there's a banking crisis, instead of the government's bailing out the banks. They might say to, actually, "We're going to do bail-in this time."  Which means that if you've got a significant amount of money in the bank, they swap that for shares in the bank. Which you may or may not get back in a few years' time, and that's what they did in Cyprus, they tried it. They've passed the legislation. So it's something we've all got to be cognizant of. And, then, of course, inflation, and very few commentators are talking about one of the biggest drivers for inflation, of course, is money printing. And inflation is now rip-roaring through the economy, it's affecting individuals. It's affecting businesses. I thought it was bad back in 2008, when governments are trying to keep it at around 2%. Over my lifetime, the dollar has lost more than 85% of its purchasing power, let's just think about that. 85% of its purchasing power, and that was before actually the surge in inflation, I calculated that.  And, so, there's a need or people have been looking for something to hedge against systemic risks. They've been looking for something to hedge against inflation. And, also, generally speaking, the financial system is getting better at payments and cross-border payments. But, again, they're looking for efficiencies with that, too. So that's why we're in this space.  Innovations around Bitcoin, model a lot on gold and other types of cryptocurrencies now, like Ethereum and even stablecoins, of what created what was a $3 trillion market. And, obviously, what we've seen this year is that $3 trillion market completely collapsed to below a trillion dollars. Which is a huge drop for anybody involved in the cryptocurrency industry. But, yes, one trillion is still better than the kick in the teeth, and it's a significant industry, still, and I don't see it going away. And there's been a huge amount of money invested in that. But we all know it's been volatile. We've seen that volatility on a weekly, sometimes, daily basis. We've seen huge swings in the value of Bitcoin. For instance, it's gone down from $65,000 down to, I think, we're currently at about $17,000, something like that. And, again, that volatility is huge.  But previous to that, of course, we saw huge gains. I mean, it went from three or $4,000, over a few years up to $65,000. So you can see the attraction and why people got involved in that. Hey, it's this fantastic growth story, and we can handle the volatility in the belief that that growth story is going to continue forever.  But, I think, what happened when Russia invaded Ukraine was really telling. It was the time when we saw that, actually, cryptocurrencies are definitely what I consider a risk on asset. They're a speculative asset that may or may not work, may or may not stand the test of time. There's lots of optimism around it and, certainly, lots of ideas around how it can benefit society. But it's very much still a risky asset, as opposed to say something about other alternatives like gold, which are just considered slightly more boring, but risk-off assets and stuff.  So when the Ukraine was invaded by Russia, then we saw the crypto price plummet, and we saw the gold price go up, for instance. But there's lots of advantages around this. Apart from even the hedging against inflation and the hedging against the systemic risk, and the payments technology, just generally speaking.  The tech, the ability to program these currencies, is what's exciting a lot of people, isn't it? So I definitely think that crypto is here to stay. But we've all got to understand what it is and understand its nature.  Adam:            Yes, we do have to understand what it is. Because you don't know it, it doesn't seem as solid as something like holding money in your hands. But then we all know that money doesn't have any backing anymore. And, as you've already mentioned, the inflation and the things with banks can be can be risky, as well. So as organizations are looking at to getting into alternative currencies, are there benefits that they can look at? You've already mentioned a lot of risks, but there have got to be benefits to getting into this.  Jason:             Yes, ther...

Get ready for part two of our insightful ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) discussion on the Count Me In podcast. Our expert panel, Douglas, Dan, and Catie, unpack the pressures and fraud risks inherent in ESG reporting, offering invaluable insights gleaned from real-world scenarios. But it's not just about identifying risks; they also provide practical guidance for those embarking on their ESG journey. Learn how to start with what you have, concentrate on materiality, and establish a robust, cross-functional ESG team. Tune in for an essential roadmap to navigate the complexities of ESG reporting in today's business landscape. This is one episode you won't want to miss!Connect with our speakers:Catie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ctserex/Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-mosher-8552519/Doug: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-hileman-fsa-crma-cpea-p-e-6abbb71/Download the reports mentioned into today's podcast:Achieving Effective Internal Control Over Sustainability ReportingManaging Fraud Risks in an Evolving ESG EnvironmentFull Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Today we have part two of Unraveling ESG. We're joined, again, by Catie Selex, Douglas Hileman, and Dan Mosher for the completion of their conversation. Now, if you didn't hear part one, I encourage you to pause right now and listen to that first. In today's episode, we explore the challenges and risks of ESG reporting, including the potential for fraud. Our experts delve into the pressures companies face and discuss real-world examples of how well-intentioned sustainability efforts can sometimes lead to misreporting and potential fraud. But it's not all about the pitfalls, they also offer essential guidance to those new to ESG. Emphasizing the importance of starting with existing resources, focusing on materiality, and setting up the dedicated cross-functional ESG team. Don't miss this invaluable conversation, so let's get started. [00:00:55]       < Music > Dan:                Doug, I mentioned the ACFE's Fraud Triangle earlier, and I'm eager to hear some of your perspectives on applying that Fraud Triangle to ESG.  Doug:              Thank you, Dan, it can be done too. It's a familiar construct, and I was fortunate to be an in-house at a Big Four when Sarbanes-Oxley hit. And at the very beginning of designing internal controls and testing internal controls, we had to consider the possibility of fraud.We had to design controls to prevent fraud, in audits we had to detect fraud.  Being an environmental specialist, and then with the IIA coming out with changing their IPPF, their framework, to require testing for fraud. I've been testing for fraud and considering fraud for 20 years, in the environmental space since 2002. It looks a little different for ESG, but not as different as you might think. There is pressure, pressure can be, "We've got to get this report out." "The customer wants this answer." "We have to say, for example, that our products didn't come from Bangladesh, so what the heck? How will they find out?" There's so much pressure. I see that people are involved in ESG, in this non-financial reporting, as an add-on to their jobs. It might be 20% of their job, and it's the 20% between 120 and 140% of what they're supposed to do. People are under, and companies, are under tremendous pressure to put the right answer out there.  They have the opportunity to do so because the controls are not designed, and have not been implemented with the potential for fraud in mind. So where there are weak controls or no controls, the opportunities are there. I see this comes into play, also, when data and information comes from outside the organization. There's this tricky thing where so much of what we do, in ESG, is not only what the organization controls but what the organization can influence. There are some challenges there, how do you control what you don't control?  So the opportunity is there because the controls can be weak or nonexistent. And the rationalization can be, "Well, everybody does it."  Or "It's not about money, it's about prestige." "It's not really this, we want the award." We've seen, for example, there's a magazine, an organization, that rates colleges, the 10 best colleges in each thing. And we've started to see, in recent years, where the colleges are even fudging the information to get the prestige of being in that award. That may have secondary effects for how many people go to that college or what they're willing to pay for tuition, but that's fraud.  In my book, if you submit data and information that is incorrect, or inaccurate, or misleading, with the intent to deceive at the expense of others. Especially if that turns into actual or potential financial gain, I call that fraud. So that applies on all three sides of the triangle. It's just a matter of thinking about this ESG and non-financial world and how that can happen. Dan:                Excellent, Doug. Yes, maybe, just to add a couple of extra points around those pressures and incentives. Today we are seeing that there is incentive compensation for certain executives that is linked to various ESG measures. If you think about that and the opportunity for management override of certain controls that are out there, that's a great incentive.  If you're going to get paid a bigger bonus because of greater ESG metrics, and your ESG, for example, your emissions information is held in Excel spreadsheet, which in many cases that is the case. I saw a survey, not so long ago, of more than a thousand executives saying that, I think, it was 86% of them had their emissions data just sitting in a spreadsheet. And if you could change that with a few keystrokes, at the executive level, to boost your bonus, someone might do that. Other things I think of are from an incentive or pressure standpoint. Things around ESG-linked bonds or credits where there are a key performance indicators and you're required to maintain those metrics, to maintain certain interest rates or payment on your bond. Those things are out there and they're going to influence some portion of those that are held to them. Catie, maybe, you have some other thoughts around this as well? Catie:              Yes, Dan, so one of the things that we're seeing in ESG, especially because people are so compelled to make great strides on their data and to make progress towards their targets, in a very quick manner, is there's an emerging market of solutions that some are absolutely l...

As highlighted in the recent COSO publication on Internal Controls over Sustainability Reporting, good governance and systems for sustainable business activities and ESG reporting require attention to potential risks around fraud and greenwashing.  Reflecting Grant Thornton’s recent report on control activities related to these risks, join us as we take a dive deep into the world of Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) in business with our latest episode of the 'Count Me In' podcast. Hosted by a panel of experts, which includes Catie Serex, Douglas Hileman and Dan Mosher, our podcast uncovers the truth behind ESG, its importance in today's business world, the challenges it presents, and importantly, its potential role in fraudulent activities. Tune in for a fascinating conversation on ESG reporting, corporate purpose, sustainability, and the latest trends affecting investors, employees, and stakeholders alike. Don't miss this chance to stay informed and ahead of the curve in the ever-evolving world of business.Connect with our speakers:Catie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ctserex/ Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-mosher-8552519/Doug: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-hileman-fsa-crma-cpea-p-e-6abbb71/Download the reports mentioned into today's podcast:Achieving Effective Internal Control Over Sustainability ReportingManaging Fraud Risks in an Evolving ESG EnvironmentFull Episode Transcript:Adam:            Hello, and welcome back to another enlightening episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into the complexities of Environmental, Social, and Governance, ESG, with a distinguished panel of experts. We're joined by Douglas Hileman, an experienced sustainability consultant, with over three decades of experience in environmental management systems, and internal controls.  Alongside him, we have Dan Mosher, a seasoned professional who excels in helping businesses navigate the complexities of sustainability and environmental risks. Last but not least, we welcome Catie Serex. A leader in environmental, health, and safety, auditing and management who assists businesses in integrating sustainable and socially responsible practices.  Today's discussion will delve into the importance of ESG, the challenges businesses face in managing ESG data, and the potential risk of fraud in ESG reporting. Here we go, let's listen in together. [00:01:00]       < Music > Doug:              And one of the things that we might kick off is with a very basic question of what is ESG? Dan, when people ask you this, how do you answer? Dan:                Well, it really is a big umbrella, and I'll ask for some help from Catie in this regard. But ESG stands for Environmental, Social, and Governance. And, so, lots of things under that environmental area. Everything from waste management and air quality, climate change. From a social perspective, it could be your human capital management, health and safety matters. Governance, I think of anticorruption, data risks, and the like. So it really is a broad title when we say ESG. Catie, do you have some things you'd like to add to that comment? Catie:              Yes, Dan, you definitely covered the gamut as far as some of the phrasings and the terminology, and really the topics that fall under that ESG umbrella. What I would want to add is that ESG is certainly one of the buzziest words in business today. But you might not know that ESG is, very simply, the newest iteration of concepts you've likely known for a long time. It's been previously known as corporate purpose, sustainability, even philanthropy.  But what differentiates ESG from these previous versions is that it now represents the closest alignment, to date, of business operations, so think about your tangible assets. To those intangible elements of business that drive value. And, in this case, I'm referring to things like customer loyalty, labor environments, community engagement support. And because of this connection, ESG is moving from a nice-to-have to a need-to-have for companies, but also their investors, their customers, and other key stakeholders like their employees. Doug:              I also think of ESG as a convenient taxonomy for all things non-financial. Many people have published those pillars or the word clouds that's in the ACFE report, and what topic goes where. For financial reporting, we know where sales goes and we know where EBITDA goes. We know where those are in a format and how to put the data and information together for clarity and reporting. For all things non-financial, it's just such a sprawling array of topics that ESG serves for one reason, in one way, as just simply a taxonomy. And there are some issues, such as climate change, like Dan mentioned, that really transcend more than one category, if you will. But for purposes of just where do you find it, and how do you manage it, and it can just serve as a taxonomy. Catie, to your point, on how to organize some processes, some controls, some recordings to understand what the organization is doing. Dan:                And I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the various channels in which this information is being put out there in the public. Catie, maybe you have some thoughts around the wide scope of that. Catie:              Yes, so in terms of the reporting side of things and getting to the nuts and bolts of what, I'm sure our listeners are interested in, in terms of, what am I on the hook for? There are a lot of reporting frameworks out there that are guiding folks. And I know that that's been a point of confusion for people is understanding, there are all these different acronyms out there. That I can report to like SASB, or the Global Reporting Initiative, GRI, Task Force for Climate-Related Financial Disclosures or TCFD. There are a lot of frameworks out there, but the field is narrowing.  So some of the communication that we've been seeing from these wider umbrella frameworks, are that they are working together to consolidate. To make things a little bit more straightforward, and to make things a little bit more uniform across the reporting landscape. But that's currently in progress, and this is just a result of this being not in nascent stages, but still in its growth period, and really honing down what are the things that shareholders, regulators, and such need to see when it comes to these ESG disclosures. Dan:...

Discover the secrets to unlocking employee engagement in this eye-opening episode of the Count Me In Podcast. Join us as we welcome Sarah Rubenstein, Chief Accounting Officer at Clearway Energy, as she shares valuable insights into employee engagement, strategies to transform disengaged employees, and the importance of creating inclusive communities within the workplace. Don't miss this chance to learn how to maximize productivity and employee satisfaction in your organization! Connect with Sarah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-rubenstein-a724632/ Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we're thrilled to have Sarah Rubenstein, Chief Accounting Officer at Clearway Energy. With us to discuss the crucial role that employee engagement plays in an organization's success.  Sarah brings her extensive experience in cultivating positive work environments to the table. Offering valuable advice on identifying disengaged employees, implementing effective strategies to boost engagement, and the benefits of fostering an inclusive, collaborative workspace. Stay tuned as we uncover the keys to unlocking a happy, productive, and thriving work environment. Adam:            Well, Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast, today. We're really excited to have you on, and today we're going to be talking about employee engagement and all that that encompasses. And maybe to start off, maybe, you can start by defining what is employee engagement to you. Sarah:            Sure, to me, employee engagement is how positive people feel about their work, and we measure that in a lot of different ways. But, really, I'm lucky, the company that I work at, we survey our employees every year, regarding employee engagement. And we ask some really good questions that were developed by very smart people at Harvard, and Yale, and Stanford, that tell us how engaged people are.  And, so, we're able to evaluate, and a lot of the questions relate to things like management, leadership, integrity, work-life balance, workload, allocation, autonomy, and things like that. And all of those factors really tell us how engaged our employees are. Adam:            That's interesting, and when you mention engaged, a lot of times when you see discussions about employee engagement. You see engaged employees versus disengaged employees. And, so, maybe we can start by talking about that a little bit. Because you have your engaged employees, and you can usually tell who those are. But the disengaged maybe a little harder to see, or maybe not so hard, depending on what they're not doing, I should say. Sarah:            Yes, sure, and the first indication we have, that some employees are not engaged, is that they don't answer the surveys. So we don't get 100% participation. So that tells us that some people feel like maybe their voice won't be heard, even if they answer. And those people, usually, just have a negative outlook, maybe, on what type of work they're doing or their future within the company.  And, so, a lot of times, you lose the engagement when people feel like there's no career development path for them, or the work that they're doing isn't valuable, or they're not being told that the work that they're doing is valuable. Adam:            And that can be very difficult for an employee, especially, when you don't feel like you can't move up in an organization. How do you take somebody who is disengaged and try to get them to be engaged? Sarah:            That's a great question, and, especially, when you don't have a development path for a person, it is really challenging. And, so, what we try to do is we try to provide a lot of personal and professional development opportunities. And we talk to our employees about how those types of opportunities can help them develop themselves. Whether for this particular company and role or just in general for their career. So we try to offer them opportunities to learn and also to, maybe, work in an area that isn't related to their job.  So we try to look for things we call stretch assignments. Where there might be an opportunity in another group, where someone needs help with a special project, and that might give that individual the opportunity to learn new skills that they can put on their resume, even if it doesn't give them direct path to promotion. So we try to demonstrate what we can offer the employee, even if it isn't upward mobility, and that maybe we can't keep them forever, but we can keep them a little bit longer, and that helps us overall. Adam:            Yes, because it shows that you care and that you're engaging with them, even though they seem to be disengaged. And, so, it encourages them, even if there is no upper mobility at that moment. Sarah:            Right, because everyone is looking for some type of personal development, even if they don't see a future for themselves at that company. So we try to offer something for everyone. If you don't see yourself as a leader at this company, that's okay, we'll work with you on how you can make yourself a better employee and a better person. So that, at least, we can keep you around, and have you feel happy to be working at the company for the time being. Adam:            Mh-hmm, that makes a lot of sense. So maybe we can focus a little bit on what are some benefits, to organizations, to creating an engaging environment? Sarah:            I haven't read all of the studies, but there are numerous studies that show that engaged employees are better employees, they're more productive. Of course, we know that hiring new employees, and training them, and getting them up to speed is very expensive and time-consuming. And, so, it benefits us to take the time to develop programs to promote employee engagement. Because, overall, we end up with better productivity and just a better workforce. Adam:            I mean, that makes a lot of sense to want to have a better workforce, especially, when they're engaged. And, so, maybe, we can talk a little bit about what do you need to look for, especially, when your team is not engaged. Are there certain signs that you can look for? Obviously, you mentioned you can tell people are not engaged when they're not taking a survey. But then what are other signs that you can look for, within your team, if you can talk a little bit about that? Sarah:            Yes, no problem, I think, there are  a couple of different signs that I look for. Generally, I look for people who aren't participating in the conversations, who don't speak up in meetings. People who have been doing the same work for an extended period of time. And, of course, you look for the signs of people who are not responsive. They're taking a ...