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In this illuminating episode of the Count Me In, we sit down with our esteemed guest, Janis Parthun, VP, Advisory & Project Services at RGP. She is a leading voice in the world of Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG). Dive into the intricacies of ESG, understand its importance in a business context, and explore its different facets - from the environmental to the social and governance perspectives. We also delve into the challenges companies face in implementing ESG strategies, discussing the evolving regulatory landscape and offering insight into the best practices adopted by forward-thinking businesses. Whether you're an industry veteran looking to refine your ESG approach or a newcomer eager to implement an ESG program, this episode is brimming with valuable insights.Connect with Janis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janisparthun/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome to another exciting episode of Count Me In. Today we have a special guest with us, Janis Parthun. VP, Advisory and Project Services, at RGP. She is an expert in the field of Environmental, Social, Governance or ESG, as many of us know it.  Janis brings a wealth of knowledge providing a fresh perspective on the complexities and significance of ESG. She will walk us through the intricacies of ESG, discuss its growing prominence, and share valuable insights on its implementation. So if you're looking to understand ESG better, and how we can add value to your business model, this is one episode you won't want to miss. Let's dive right in. Janis, we're really excited to have you on the Count Me In podcast. As we go into today, we're going to be talking about ESG or Environmental, Social, and Governance, and we hear a lot about that. IMA talks a lot about that. We've been publishing articles. There's a lot of things happening in the industry. But maybe we can start off just at a higher level and talk about what does it mean, what does it represent, in an organization? Janis:              Yes, Adam, happy to do that. The term ESG or Environmental, Social, and Governance can really differ just depending on who you speak to. But I'd like to establish some initial background here. Where environmental focuses on the company's impact on the environment. On the risks, and opportunities associated with the impact of climate change on the company, its business, and its industry.  Social may focus on the company's relationship with people and society, or whether the company's investing in its community. And governance focuses on issues such as how the company is run, and possibly connect to executive compensation.  So ESG has been an important element to organizations approach to create value, as part of the business model, and just to the greater society impact. But what does this entail? Is what I often hear. And to elaborate a little bit more, a company's overarching ESG program will likely have top priorities determined around ESG matters. With goals, which includes metrics and possibly targets for future outlook has been set and established. To reach the goals and the targets, the company may have various initiatives and action, in order to support the goals. For example, a company may have climate change as one of its ESG priorities or material topics, and a goal to reduce emissions with the target of 40% by 2040. The organization, then, may have an initiative or a project to convert all transportation fleets to electric vehicles, as a strategy to reduce the emissions.  But when we're discussing ESG, at the overarching program or program level, this is applicable across multiple material topics or priority topics. Now, the topic of ESG is not new, and there are significant funds and investments around this.  Currently, over 96% of the S&P 500 already, voluntarily, publish sustainability reports in some form or fashion. But an increasing interest from parties to invest, and companies wanting to communicate or report on ESG. Regulatory and standard-setting bodies are also paying attention to how companies are reporting on ESG matters. Adam:            Definitely, and you see a lot of the bigger organizations implementing it. But smaller organizations may not quite be ready or there, yet. And if you are one of those organizations that are saying, "You know what, I want to jump into this, get into this." What are some steps that a typical company might undergo to establish an ESG-type program? Is there a specific, strategic, approach that you need to take when you're implementing that? Janis:              Yes, that's a great point, Adam, and there is a recommended strategic approach to this. So the other aspect to think about is the ESG strategic roadmap or steps that companies, typically, may undergo to establish an ESG program. First, is really having to determine materiality. This is driven by stakeholder and market input, industry profile, business strategy, and suggested standards and frameworks. And, then, setting goals and targets and execute on the reporting.  So establishing process and oversight to have that accountability, and report or update related to performance metrics. And, then, establishing quality control. Establish process and governance to ensure the quality control of the data that's collected or reported, and of course, reevaluate in that cycle.  But, more often than not, companies are encountering challenges, during the midpoint stages of executing on the ESG program strategy. And this includes adhering to regulations, standards and frameworks, and just trying to stay current and up to date. There are several in the horizon, and it's a lot going on for companies to navigate through. Program management and governance, having organizational governance over the ESG program, and monitoring and tracking against existing goals, appropriately, and evaluating progress. For example, do you have a governance process around adding or revising priorities or metrics? And monitoring the actions or involved in ESG committee that helps govern the goals set and tracked. And data quality management; is the information reliable?  For example, is the information collected comprehensive to the metrics being tracked? Such as inclusive the various regions and markets. Is that information reliable? Such as is it trackable or include supporting details. And with each of these challenges, it's important to pull the right resources in to help and address. Adam:            Before we get too much into the details of program management and those challenges. You've mentioned, a few times, about different regulating bodies have been watching in certain areas. There are regulations and new standards coming up, and that can be challenging for anybody and everybody. A lot of people are overworked. People are getting stressed out, and the idea of having more regulations to follow can be very stress inducing. But, maybe, you can talk a little bit more about how it's affecting companies and what people can expect? Janis:              Yes, I can, definitely, elaborate that a little bit more, Adam, and dive a little bi...

Welcome to a brand-new episode of 'Count Me In' where we break down complex financial concepts into simple, understandable terms. In this episode, we unravel the mysteries of cryptocurrency and explore its volatile nature. We're joined by Jason Cozens, the CEO and Founder of Glint, who shares his insights into the current state of the market and explains why cryptocurrencies have become such a significant player in the global economy. Plus, we dive into the golden alternative, exploring how gold has held its purchasing power over thousands of years and how innovative technologies, like Glint, have made gold a feasible medium of exchange. Whether you're a crypto enthusiast or a gold advocate, this episode is packed with valuable insights that will help you navigate the world of alternative currencies.Connect with Jason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncozens/ Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Hello and welcome to another episode of Count Me In. Today we're diving headfirst into the complex and ever-evolving world of cryptocurrencies. We're excited to have Jason Cozens with us. The CEO and founder of Glint, a global fintech platform.  He's an expert in cryptocurrencies and alternative currencies, and he'll be sharing his extensive knowledge about the current state of the market. Why cryptocurrencies exist, in the first place, and their inherent risks. He'll also shed light on the appeal of gold, as a stable, risk-off asset, and how it's been modernized for everyday transaction with technologies like Glint. So if you're curious about the state of cryptocurrencies, or the power of gold, as an alternative, this episode is a treasure trove of information. Let's dive in. Jason, I just want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Really excited to have your expertise around cryptocurrencies and alternative currencies, in the market. And maybe we can start off by discussing cryptocurrencies and the state of that market, as it stands right now.  Jason:             Yes, sure, well, I mean, before we start looking at exactly the state of the market, now. I think it's also important to understand why the market even exists and, then, just to touch on that for a second. Why do we even have crypto currencies?  My movement into alternative currencies started in 2008 like a lot of people's journeys did for this. Where they realize that banks are not risk-free deposits of funds. When you put your money in the bank, it ceases to be yours. That money is put at risk, and it is lent out, it's a liability of the bank. And that's a problem for people and a problem for businesses that have money, and want to be able to put it into those banks. And, of course, we get all kinds of insurances from the FDIC et cetera.  But, at some point, they're going to change the rules, and they've already passed legislation called bail-in rather than bailout. Which means that when, next time, there's a banking crisis, instead of the government's bailing out the banks. They might say to, actually, "We're going to do bail-in this time."  Which means that if you've got a significant amount of money in the bank, they swap that for shares in the bank. Which you may or may not get back in a few years' time, and that's what they did in Cyprus, they tried it. They've passed the legislation. So it's something we've all got to be cognizant of. And, then, of course, inflation, and very few commentators are talking about one of the biggest drivers for inflation, of course, is money printing. And inflation is now rip-roaring through the economy, it's affecting individuals. It's affecting businesses. I thought it was bad back in 2008, when governments are trying to keep it at around 2%. Over my lifetime, the dollar has lost more than 85% of its purchasing power, let's just think about that. 85% of its purchasing power, and that was before actually the surge in inflation, I calculated that.  And, so, there's a need or people have been looking for something to hedge against systemic risks. They've been looking for something to hedge against inflation. And, also, generally speaking, the financial system is getting better at payments and cross-border payments. But, again, they're looking for efficiencies with that, too. So that's why we're in this space.  Innovations around Bitcoin, model a lot on gold and other types of cryptocurrencies now, like Ethereum and even stablecoins, of what created what was a $3 trillion market. And, obviously, what we've seen this year is that $3 trillion market completely collapsed to below a trillion dollars. Which is a huge drop for anybody involved in the cryptocurrency industry. But, yes, one trillion is still better than the kick in the teeth, and it's a significant industry, still, and I don't see it going away. And there's been a huge amount of money invested in that. But we all know it's been volatile. We've seen that volatility on a weekly, sometimes, daily basis. We've seen huge swings in the value of Bitcoin. For instance, it's gone down from $65,000 down to, I think, we're currently at about $17,000, something like that. And, again, that volatility is huge.  But previous to that, of course, we saw huge gains. I mean, it went from three or $4,000, over a few years up to $65,000. So you can see the attraction and why people got involved in that. Hey, it's this fantastic growth story, and we can handle the volatility in the belief that that growth story is going to continue forever.  But, I think, what happened when Russia invaded Ukraine was really telling. It was the time when we saw that, actually, cryptocurrencies are definitely what I consider a risk on asset. They're a speculative asset that may or may not work, may or may not stand the test of time. There's lots of optimism around it and, certainly, lots of ideas around how it can benefit society. But it's very much still a risky asset, as opposed to say something about other alternatives like gold, which are just considered slightly more boring, but risk-off assets and stuff.  So when the Ukraine was invaded by Russia, then we saw the crypto price plummet, and we saw the gold price go up, for instance. But there's lots of advantages around this. Apart from even the hedging against inflation and the hedging against the systemic risk, and the payments technology, just generally speaking.  The tech, the ability to program these currencies, is what's exciting a lot of people, isn't it? So I definitely think that crypto is here to stay. But we've all got to understand what it is and understand its nature.  Adam:            Yes, we do have to understand what it is. Because you don't know it, it doesn't seem as solid as something like holding money in your hands. But then we all know that money doesn't have any backing anymore. And, as you've already mentioned, the inflation and the things with banks can be can be risky, as well. So as organizations are looking at to getting into alternative currencies, are there benefits that they can look at? You've already mentioned a lot of risks, but there have got to be benefits to getting into this.  Jason:             Yes, ther...

Get ready for part two of our insightful ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) discussion on the Count Me In podcast. Our expert panel, Douglas, Dan, and Catie, unpack the pressures and fraud risks inherent in ESG reporting, offering invaluable insights gleaned from real-world scenarios. But it's not just about identifying risks; they also provide practical guidance for those embarking on their ESG journey. Learn how to start with what you have, concentrate on materiality, and establish a robust, cross-functional ESG team. Tune in for an essential roadmap to navigate the complexities of ESG reporting in today's business landscape. This is one episode you won't want to miss!Connect with our speakers:Catie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ctserex/Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-mosher-8552519/Doug: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-hileman-fsa-crma-cpea-p-e-6abbb71/Download the reports mentioned into today's podcast:Achieving Effective Internal Control Over Sustainability ReportingManaging Fraud Risks in an Evolving ESG EnvironmentFull Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Today we have part two of Unraveling ESG. We're joined, again, by Catie Selex, Douglas Hileman, and Dan Mosher for the completion of their conversation. Now, if you didn't hear part one, I encourage you to pause right now and listen to that first. In today's episode, we explore the challenges and risks of ESG reporting, including the potential for fraud. Our experts delve into the pressures companies face and discuss real-world examples of how well-intentioned sustainability efforts can sometimes lead to misreporting and potential fraud. But it's not all about the pitfalls, they also offer essential guidance to those new to ESG. Emphasizing the importance of starting with existing resources, focusing on materiality, and setting up the dedicated cross-functional ESG team. Don't miss this invaluable conversation, so let's get started. [00:00:55]       < Music > Dan:                Doug, I mentioned the ACFE's Fraud Triangle earlier, and I'm eager to hear some of your perspectives on applying that Fraud Triangle to ESG.  Doug:              Thank you, Dan, it can be done too. It's a familiar construct, and I was fortunate to be an in-house at a Big Four when Sarbanes-Oxley hit. And at the very beginning of designing internal controls and testing internal controls, we had to consider the possibility of fraud.We had to design controls to prevent fraud, in audits we had to detect fraud.  Being an environmental specialist, and then with the IIA coming out with changing their IPPF, their framework, to require testing for fraud. I've been testing for fraud and considering fraud for 20 years, in the environmental space since 2002. It looks a little different for ESG, but not as different as you might think. There is pressure, pressure can be, "We've got to get this report out." "The customer wants this answer." "We have to say, for example, that our products didn't come from Bangladesh, so what the heck? How will they find out?" There's so much pressure. I see that people are involved in ESG, in this non-financial reporting, as an add-on to their jobs. It might be 20% of their job, and it's the 20% between 120 and 140% of what they're supposed to do. People are under, and companies, are under tremendous pressure to put the right answer out there.  They have the opportunity to do so because the controls are not designed, and have not been implemented with the potential for fraud in mind. So where there are weak controls or no controls, the opportunities are there. I see this comes into play, also, when data and information comes from outside the organization. There's this tricky thing where so much of what we do, in ESG, is not only what the organization controls but what the organization can influence. There are some challenges there, how do you control what you don't control?  So the opportunity is there because the controls can be weak or nonexistent. And the rationalization can be, "Well, everybody does it."  Or "It's not about money, it's about prestige." "It's not really this, we want the award." We've seen, for example, there's a magazine, an organization, that rates colleges, the 10 best colleges in each thing. And we've started to see, in recent years, where the colleges are even fudging the information to get the prestige of being in that award. That may have secondary effects for how many people go to that college or what they're willing to pay for tuition, but that's fraud.  In my book, if you submit data and information that is incorrect, or inaccurate, or misleading, with the intent to deceive at the expense of others. Especially if that turns into actual or potential financial gain, I call that fraud. So that applies on all three sides of the triangle. It's just a matter of thinking about this ESG and non-financial world and how that can happen. Dan:                Excellent, Doug. Yes, maybe, just to add a couple of extra points around those pressures and incentives. Today we are seeing that there is incentive compensation for certain executives that is linked to various ESG measures. If you think about that and the opportunity for management override of certain controls that are out there, that's a great incentive.  If you're going to get paid a bigger bonus because of greater ESG metrics, and your ESG, for example, your emissions information is held in Excel spreadsheet, which in many cases that is the case. I saw a survey, not so long ago, of more than a thousand executives saying that, I think, it was 86% of them had their emissions data just sitting in a spreadsheet. And if you could change that with a few keystrokes, at the executive level, to boost your bonus, someone might do that. Other things I think of are from an incentive or pressure standpoint. Things around ESG-linked bonds or credits where there are a key performance indicators and you're required to maintain those metrics, to maintain certain interest rates or payment on your bond. Those things are out there and they're going to influence some portion of those that are held to them. Catie, maybe, you have some other thoughts around this as well? Catie:              Yes, Dan, so one of the things that we're seeing in ESG, especially because people are so compelled to make great strides on their data and to make progress towards their targets, in a very quick manner, is there's an emerging market of solutions that some are absolutely l...

As highlighted in the recent COSO publication on Internal Controls over Sustainability Reporting, good governance and systems for sustainable business activities and ESG reporting require attention to potential risks around fraud and greenwashing.  Reflecting Grant Thornton’s recent report on control activities related to these risks, join us as we take a dive deep into the world of Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) in business with our latest episode of the 'Count Me In' podcast. Hosted by a panel of experts, which includes Catie Serex, Douglas Hileman and Dan Mosher, our podcast uncovers the truth behind ESG, its importance in today's business world, the challenges it presents, and importantly, its potential role in fraudulent activities. Tune in for a fascinating conversation on ESG reporting, corporate purpose, sustainability, and the latest trends affecting investors, employees, and stakeholders alike. Don't miss this chance to stay informed and ahead of the curve in the ever-evolving world of business.Connect with our speakers:Catie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ctserex/ Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-mosher-8552519/Doug: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-hileman-fsa-crma-cpea-p-e-6abbb71/Download the reports mentioned into today's podcast:Achieving Effective Internal Control Over Sustainability ReportingManaging Fraud Risks in an Evolving ESG EnvironmentFull Episode Transcript:Adam:            Hello, and welcome back to another enlightening episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and today we're diving deep into the complexities of Environmental, Social, and Governance, ESG, with a distinguished panel of experts. We're joined by Douglas Hileman, an experienced sustainability consultant, with over three decades of experience in environmental management systems, and internal controls.  Alongside him, we have Dan Mosher, a seasoned professional who excels in helping businesses navigate the complexities of sustainability and environmental risks. Last but not least, we welcome Catie Serex. A leader in environmental, health, and safety, auditing and management who assists businesses in integrating sustainable and socially responsible practices.  Today's discussion will delve into the importance of ESG, the challenges businesses face in managing ESG data, and the potential risk of fraud in ESG reporting. Here we go, let's listen in together. [00:01:00]       < Music > Doug:              And one of the things that we might kick off is with a very basic question of what is ESG? Dan, when people ask you this, how do you answer? Dan:                Well, it really is a big umbrella, and I'll ask for some help from Catie in this regard. But ESG stands for Environmental, Social, and Governance. And, so, lots of things under that environmental area. Everything from waste management and air quality, climate change. From a social perspective, it could be your human capital management, health and safety matters. Governance, I think of anticorruption, data risks, and the like. So it really is a broad title when we say ESG. Catie, do you have some things you'd like to add to that comment? Catie:              Yes, Dan, you definitely covered the gamut as far as some of the phrasings and the terminology, and really the topics that fall under that ESG umbrella. What I would want to add is that ESG is certainly one of the buzziest words in business today. But you might not know that ESG is, very simply, the newest iteration of concepts you've likely known for a long time. It's been previously known as corporate purpose, sustainability, even philanthropy.  But what differentiates ESG from these previous versions is that it now represents the closest alignment, to date, of business operations, so think about your tangible assets. To those intangible elements of business that drive value. And, in this case, I'm referring to things like customer loyalty, labor environments, community engagement support. And because of this connection, ESG is moving from a nice-to-have to a need-to-have for companies, but also their investors, their customers, and other key stakeholders like their employees. Doug:              I also think of ESG as a convenient taxonomy for all things non-financial. Many people have published those pillars or the word clouds that's in the ACFE report, and what topic goes where. For financial reporting, we know where sales goes and we know where EBITDA goes. We know where those are in a format and how to put the data and information together for clarity and reporting. For all things non-financial, it's just such a sprawling array of topics that ESG serves for one reason, in one way, as just simply a taxonomy. And there are some issues, such as climate change, like Dan mentioned, that really transcend more than one category, if you will. But for purposes of just where do you find it, and how do you manage it, and it can just serve as a taxonomy. Catie, to your point, on how to organize some processes, some controls, some recordings to understand what the organization is doing. Dan:                And I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the various channels in which this information is being put out there in the public. Catie, maybe you have some thoughts around the wide scope of that. Catie:              Yes, so in terms of the reporting side of things and getting to the nuts and bolts of what, I'm sure our listeners are interested in, in terms of, what am I on the hook for? There are a lot of reporting frameworks out there that are guiding folks. And I know that that's been a point of confusion for people is understanding, there are all these different acronyms out there. That I can report to like SASB, or the Global Reporting Initiative, GRI, Task Force for Climate-Related Financial Disclosures or TCFD. There are a lot of frameworks out there, but the field is narrowing.  So some of the communication that we've been seeing from these wider umbrella frameworks, are that they are working together to consolidate. To make things a little bit more straightforward, and to make things a little bit more uniform across the reporting landscape. But that's currently in progress, and this is just a result of this being not in nascent stages, but still in its growth period, and really honing down what are the things that shareholders, regulators, and such need to see when it comes to these ESG disclosures. Dan:...

Discover the secrets to unlocking employee engagement in this eye-opening episode of the Count Me In Podcast. Join us as we welcome Sarah Rubenstein, Chief Accounting Officer at Clearway Energy, as she shares valuable insights into employee engagement, strategies to transform disengaged employees, and the importance of creating inclusive communities within the workplace. Don't miss this chance to learn how to maximize productivity and employee satisfaction in your organization! Connect with Sarah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-rubenstein-a724632/ Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we're thrilled to have Sarah Rubenstein, Chief Accounting Officer at Clearway Energy. With us to discuss the crucial role that employee engagement plays in an organization's success.  Sarah brings her extensive experience in cultivating positive work environments to the table. Offering valuable advice on identifying disengaged employees, implementing effective strategies to boost engagement, and the benefits of fostering an inclusive, collaborative workspace. Stay tuned as we uncover the keys to unlocking a happy, productive, and thriving work environment. Adam:            Well, Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast, today. We're really excited to have you on, and today we're going to be talking about employee engagement and all that that encompasses. And maybe to start off, maybe, you can start by defining what is employee engagement to you. Sarah:            Sure, to me, employee engagement is how positive people feel about their work, and we measure that in a lot of different ways. But, really, I'm lucky, the company that I work at, we survey our employees every year, regarding employee engagement. And we ask some really good questions that were developed by very smart people at Harvard, and Yale, and Stanford, that tell us how engaged people are.  And, so, we're able to evaluate, and a lot of the questions relate to things like management, leadership, integrity, work-life balance, workload, allocation, autonomy, and things like that. And all of those factors really tell us how engaged our employees are. Adam:            That's interesting, and when you mention engaged, a lot of times when you see discussions about employee engagement. You see engaged employees versus disengaged employees. And, so, maybe we can start by talking about that a little bit. Because you have your engaged employees, and you can usually tell who those are. But the disengaged maybe a little harder to see, or maybe not so hard, depending on what they're not doing, I should say. Sarah:            Yes, sure, and the first indication we have, that some employees are not engaged, is that they don't answer the surveys. So we don't get 100% participation. So that tells us that some people feel like maybe their voice won't be heard, even if they answer. And those people, usually, just have a negative outlook, maybe, on what type of work they're doing or their future within the company.  And, so, a lot of times, you lose the engagement when people feel like there's no career development path for them, or the work that they're doing isn't valuable, or they're not being told that the work that they're doing is valuable. Adam:            And that can be very difficult for an employee, especially, when you don't feel like you can't move up in an organization. How do you take somebody who is disengaged and try to get them to be engaged? Sarah:            That's a great question, and, especially, when you don't have a development path for a person, it is really challenging. And, so, what we try to do is we try to provide a lot of personal and professional development opportunities. And we talk to our employees about how those types of opportunities can help them develop themselves. Whether for this particular company and role or just in general for their career. So we try to offer them opportunities to learn and also to, maybe, work in an area that isn't related to their job.  So we try to look for things we call stretch assignments. Where there might be an opportunity in another group, where someone needs help with a special project, and that might give that individual the opportunity to learn new skills that they can put on their resume, even if it doesn't give them direct path to promotion. So we try to demonstrate what we can offer the employee, even if it isn't upward mobility, and that maybe we can't keep them forever, but we can keep them a little bit longer, and that helps us overall. Adam:            Yes, because it shows that you care and that you're engaging with them, even though they seem to be disengaged. And, so, it encourages them, even if there is no upper mobility at that moment. Sarah:            Right, because everyone is looking for some type of personal development, even if they don't see a future for themselves at that company. So we try to offer something for everyone. If you don't see yourself as a leader at this company, that's okay, we'll work with you on how you can make yourself a better employee and a better person. So that, at least, we can keep you around, and have you feel happy to be working at the company for the time being. Adam:            Mh-hmm, that makes a lot of sense. So maybe we can focus a little bit on what are some benefits, to organizations, to creating an engaging environment? Sarah:            I haven't read all of the studies, but there are numerous studies that show that engaged employees are better employees, they're more productive. Of course, we know that hiring new employees, and training them, and getting them up to speed is very expensive and time-consuming. And, so, it benefits us to take the time to develop programs to promote employee engagement. Because, overall, we end up with better productivity and just a better workforce. Adam:            I mean, that makes a lot of sense to want to have a better workforce, especially, when they're engaged. And, so, maybe, we can talk a little bit about what do you need to look for, especially, when your team is not engaged. Are there certain signs that you can look for? Obviously, you mentioned you can tell people are not engaged when they're not taking a survey. But then what are other signs that you can look for, within your team, if you can talk a little bit about that? Sarah:            Yes, no problem, I think, there are  a couple of different signs that I look for. Generally, I look for people who aren't participating in the conversations, who don't speak up in meetings. People who have been doing the same work for an extended period of time. And, of course, you look for the signs of people who are not responsive. They're taking a ...

Join us on the next Count Me In as we delve into the world of accounting and finance with Megan Weiss, YP and General manager, FAO services and host of the CFO weekly podcast at Personiv. Learn about the talent shortage in the accounting industry, the benefits and challenges of outsourcing, and how recent events have impacted the profession. Don't miss this insightful conversation about the future of accounting and how companies can adapt to thrive. Connect with Megan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-weis/Check out the report mentioned in today's episode: https://insights.personiv.com/reports/cfo-talent-survey-reportFull Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Where we explore the world of accounting and finance with industry experts. Today we're thrilled to have Megan Weiss join us. With a rich background in accounting and consulting, Megan currently leads the Finance and Accounting Division at Personiv. She's here to share her insights into the talent shortage, in the accounting industry. The pros and cons of outsourcing, and how recent events like the Great Resignation and quiet quitting have shaped the profession. Let's dive in and learn from Megan's wealth of expertise and knowledge. So, Megan, I want to thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast, today. And I wanted to start off, a little bit, by if you could just give us an overview of your background and how you got to where you are today. Megan:           Yes, sure, and thanks for having me. So I graduated with an undergraduate degree in accounting from Kent State University. I managed to pass the CPA in my final semester of school there. So right after school, I went to work for Deloitte & Touche, one of the Big Four accounting firms, and I was with their audit practice. I stayed and served my time for about three and a half years.  When I left there, I went to work for Pricewaterhouse Coopers in their transaction advisory services group. Where we were looking at helping organizations who were getting ready to purchase a business or sell a business, just to determine if it was a good fit. If they were paying a good price for the business.  From there I went to work for British Petroleum as a financial analyst. I left there after a couple of years to work for Accenture and that was back in 2003, and that was when I was introduced to the idea of outsourcing, it was pretty new back then. Not a lot of companies were doing it and the ones that did do it were very large enterprises.  So I stayed there for 13 years, and while I was with them I went back to school. I got my MBA from Duke University. I left Accenture to then work at a small boutique consulting firm here in Dallas, Texas. It's called Everest Group, and it is a consulting group that focuses on outsourcing service providers and companies with shared service providers.  And, so, my role there was to focus on finance and accounting and I was really looking at the service providers, and their visions for the future, and where the finance and accounting outsourcing industry was headed. And, then, while I was there, I did a project for the company I am at now, it's called Personiv. And the project I did for them was to take a look at lines of service that they should consider getting into.  So, although, they'd been around since the mid-'80s, finance and accounting was never really on their radar as something that they should maybe venture into. So during the course of that project, finance and accounting was one of the things that we suggested that they branch into. And, so, when they decided to go down that road they reached out to me, brought me on to start it up.  So I've been here now for five years, it's been a really exciting journey. It's like being in a startup organization, but with the backing of a company that's been around for 35 years. So that's how I got to where I am today. I feel like it's a good culmination of everything I've done to date. Adam:            Yes, that sounds great. You've had quite the story going of a bunch of different places, but it shapes who you are and how you see everything in the accounting world. And one thing that you and I had talked about is that there is a talent shortage, in the accounting and finance world, when it comes to having to outsource, it's because you have a talent shortage, and it's been around for over 15 years. Reading articles of people saying, "Oh, it just showed up during the pandemic." But as we talked about your experience, previously, you're saying, "Well, no, it's been around for a long time." Megan:           Yes, I mean, I would say it's been around for, at least, the last two decades. When you've read top challenges for CFOs, over the last two decades, talent has always been one or two, on that list. And, I think, it really started way back in the early 2000s, when they decided that they would make accounting a five-year program. In order to sit for the CPA, you needed a master's degree, and that's, maybe, when people stopped going into the study of accounting. And, really, it's been around and becoming more and more of a problem, every year since. And back in 2015, the AICPA, which stands for, actually, American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, and they were predicting that by 2020, 75% of their members would be retired. And I know not every accountant is a CPA, but that's a good indicator of where the profession is headed.  And, then, you add, on top of that, millennials and Gen Z's, who are looking for more meaningful work. And accounting, historically, has not necessarily been seen as an area that is conducive to meaningful work. So, yes, it's, definitely, been exasperated in the last three years since COVID hit, but it's been a problem for a long time coming. Adam:            So if you're in an organization and you recognize that, "Hey, I need more talent in my accounting team." What are some benefits that they can see when they think about outsourcing their accounting and finance team? Megan:           Yes, well, in the years past, outsourcing was really about just cutting cost, and it was all about the cost, savings. But, today, it's really about opening up a new pool of talent. A pool of talent that's equally qualified as the talent you would find, if you could, here in the United States.  So, yes, it really is just a wonderful way to find very talented accountants. And on top of that, if a client chooses, I mean, you can have 24-hours coverage. You can have people that work here in the United States. You can have a team that works over their days, which is on the other side of the world. So you're basically getting 24-hours coverage. But a lot of times, consultants or outsourcing providers, have people that are willing to work nights. Because that's not uncommon, in India or the Philippines, where a lot of this outsourcing is done, for people to work overnight in support of U.S. companies.  And as I mentioned, ...

Dive into the world of fintech with our latest episode of the Count Me In podcast, where we discuss the transformative power of financial technology for businesses of all sizes. Join us as we chat with Joe Keeley, the CEO of Justify, a company dedicated to accelerating the fintech potential of software platforms. Discover how companies can leverage fintech tools to reduce costs, enhance revenue, and offer new services to their customers. From the giants like Amazon and Starbucks to small businesses, the opportunities are endless. Don't miss this insightful conversation that will change the way you think about the financial landscape. Connect with Joe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joekeeley/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome to Count Me In. Today we have a special guest, Joe Keeley, CEO of JustiFi. Joining us to discuss the world of fintech and its impact on business. We'll explore what fintech really means? How companies can harness its potential, and why it's important for businesses to understand the various tools available in the fintech toolbox. Joe will also share are some fascinating success stories and insights on how companies can thrive in this financial, technology-driven world. So let's get started and delve into this exciting world of fintech. So, Joe, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast, today. We're really excited to have you on and we're going to be covering the topic of fintech, and that is a big buzzword in the industry right now. And I was hoping that we can maybe start with defining where you fit in the fintech world, and we'll continue on from there. Joe:                 That's great, thanks for having me, Adam. And it is, I think, fintech is one of the biggest buzzwords that's out there. It's been said by leading venture capital firms that every company should be or will be a fintech company. So it's like, "Okay, well, that's a lot of pressure." So first of all, I think, we need to step back and say, "What is that mean?" I mean, it's just an abbreviation, just flat-footed, first, it's financial technology, which can mean so many different things. But, for us, the company that I lead is called JustiFi and we exist to do just that. To accelerate the potential or the fintech potential of other software platforms.  So in that context, it turns out that a lot of companies that are out there, one of their major, or their biggest, or only economic engine is not actually selling the product, or the service, or the access, then, that is there in plain sight.  So, for example, software platforms, there are many software platforms that sell a SaaS fee, and they charge you to use it. But that is simply the Trojan horse to get funds flow. So they're making money on payments. They're making money by offering additional fintech products like embedded insurance, embedded lending, card issuing.  So when you think about interchange that, deliberately, opaque monster that no one really seems to understand. You can make money and participate on interchange, by lowering your costs and keeping your price. And you can make money on interchange by participating at being high, too, by issuing cards. So there's just a lot in there. But, ultimately, what we do as a company is help platforms with their economic engine being fintech, and we provide infrastructure and a team to help them do that.  But it's interesting for all companies, not just software companies, to think about and try to understand what are the different tools in the fintech toolbox, and how could they be applicable to your business, big or small? Whether that be through cost reduction, or an area that's typically not talked about by finance and accounting professionals is enhancing the revenue. Adam:            Totally, and I think the other part of the problem that we run into, with every company being a fintech company is that, you and I were touching on this a little bit before we started recording, where does it live? Your IT team has to manage it and finance has to touch it, but nobody really owns it. And how can you really fully manage it if no one really owns the software, when it's within your company? Joe:                 Yes, and that is a really big issue. And part of our JustiFi, we have what we call our tech infrastructure, but we also have an engaged fintech team. Where we have a dedicated chief payments officer. A chief fintech officer that's available to our clients because they sit in between finance and accounting, and product and engineering or IT at a particular company. But I would think one of the things that I would really encourage and if multiple people own something, to your point, Adam, then nobody owns it.  But to finance and accounting professionals, to really take the ownership of how can we and challenging the status quo. Does this 3% need to be 3% when we collect or how could we think about differently on lowering cost?  How could we think differently on what adjacent revenue streams could be available to us. Where you're enhancing the offerings to your customers? It may not be the core product but, ultimately, it's been said that on every dollar in commerce, there's up to 10% of that. So a thousand basis points that is available and leaks out, whether that's in fees-in fees-out, early pay discounts, all of these different things.  So I would encourage from a strategic perspective, it's one that finance and accounting can own this. Implementation of how it's working is more product and engineering. Adam:            Of course, an example that comes to mind is I just saw an article, a couple of days ago. Where Amazon is going to start accepting Venmo as a payment option. And if the big behemoth, Amazon, can start accepting Venmo as a payment. What possibilities are there for every company to accept different types of payments, and be more creative using technology?  Joe:                 That's right and, sometimes, you're accepting a type of payment like Venmo or a buy now, pay later, and it's actually a more expensive payment method. Those are more expensive payment methods, then credit card and debit card, and then bank transfers, and ACH, going all the way down. And you do that because you're trying to get more customers or you're trying to ease the customer journey, the customer experience.  But in terms of every company being a fintech company, you want to make those choices with your eyes wide open. Because what if you could monetize or make money on that payment flow? And it takes certain kinds of architecture to do that. But just understanding the space, it's the first step. Why are we doing something? What is it actually going to cost? And there's just an immense amount of opportunity that exists there. But basis points can matter at scale, they very much matter at scale. Adam:            Yes, especially, when it's affecting your bottom line in the long run. Es...

Dive into the world of ESG (environmental, social, and governance) at IBM with our latest episode of Count Me In. Today we discuss the challenges and successes of implementing ESG objectives in a global corporation. Join our Guest John Mahoney, ESG External Reporting Project Manager and hear how IBM's commitment to sustainability, open communication, and cross-functional collaboration is driving positive change and shaping the future. If you want to learn how to navigate the complexities of ESG and unlock new opportunities, don't miss this episode!  Connect with John: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnmahoneycpa/ IBM Impact: IBM's ESG Framework | IBM Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we're joined by John Mahoney, an ESG external reporting project manager, IBM. He shares his unique journey and insights into the company's approach to ESG integration. We discuss the importance of having the right company culture. Support from leadership, and cross functional collaboration to make ESG initiatives successful. So sit back and relax and let's explore how IBM is uniting for a sustainable future. Now, John, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We're really excited to talk about ESG, and ESG at IBM. And, so, many professionals, in this space, have been reluctant to engage with ESG for a number of different reasons. But maybe you can start with talking about what your journey is, was to get here. John:              Of course, and my thanks to you, Adam, and the IMA, for having me. I'm excited to be a part of the Count Me In series, it's really great. In terms of my story, I'd say I've had a relatively conventional accounting background, in that I spent the first chunk of my career in public accounting. Splitting my time between audit and advisory services. Where I was fortunate to have the chance to work with some really great clients, and help them navigate through complex and challenging topics. Spanning from the adoption of accounting standards, acquisitions, carve-outs, stocks implementation, as well as, some SEC reporting jobs.  So I was really grateful to have seen so many different things, early on, in my career, in public, and I knew I wanted my next role to be dynamic as well. So I was very thankful to have landed at IBM. First joining the Accounting Practices and External Reporting Organization, which is really a consultative group focusing mostly on technical accounting consultations, as well as the preparation of IBM's periodic SEC filings.  I had always enjoyed the reporting aspect of the job, and helping companies craft their stories and messaging to external parties. So I knew I wanted to stay close to that and I was grateful that the opportunity at IBM afforded me that. So, as you can tell, I don't have an ESG background, but I did know I wanted to continue to explore new topics. And with all of that being said, I had been keeping an eye on the energy in the ESG space, and I had expressed interest to stay involved wherever possible within the group.  So when the opportunity arose to make it a full-time job, I jumped right in headfirst. And really saw this as a great chance to apply the skills that I've been working on, thus far, in my career to a new area and one that was not only hyper relevant, in the time, but also deeply purposeful in terms of subject matter.  We spend a lot of time working on dollars and cents related topics and working through financial statements, and this was just a really exciting opportunity to apply my skill set in a different forum. So, well, I can't speak to reluctance, personally, I'd even venture to say that we're probably passing the point of reluctance. But for those that are hesitant, I'd encourage everyone to engage and start exploring the topic and draft standards.  While it is gaining more momentum as a topic, there's still only a small amount of accounting folks that are focused on it currently. And with the rules still being written, it's a great chance to get in on the ground floor and establish yourself as a go-to person, not only within your organization, but really the space at large. So really excited to be a part of the journey, and keen to see where it takes me and all of us at large. Adam:            And I'm really excited to hear about your journey, as we've heard other people's journeys when it comes to ESG. I find that everybody's journey is different and I feel that that brings a real diversity of thought into the ESG space. Which is needed in something that's growing and something that's just starting out, you need to have many different perspectives. John:              I couldn't agree more, and everyone I've engaged with have been coming from a diverse background. And some folks have that key SEC reporting or accounting footing, and other folks, perhaps, have spent more time in true-blooded ESG functions, if you will. I think between the pending rule on SEC climate, the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive in Europe, the ISSB standards, we just haven't seen anything of this magnitude all at once.  So bringing together a diverse group to really tackle this watershed moment for the profession. It's going to have broad impacts on not only finance and accounting organizations, but organizations for years to come. Adam:            Yes, definitely, so when organizations bring on ESG into their organization. You have to start combining the ESG objectives with the overall objectives of the organization. How does IBM go about harmonizing those objectives? John:              Yes, so, no surprise, IBM is a large company. We've got more than 280,000 employees, globally, operating in more than 170 countries. So with that scale, and for the scale of most large companies, there's always countless initiatives and objectives that need to coexist, simultaneously.  We are lucky in that IBM does have a great legacy with ESG just as it relates to climate. We incorporated our first environmental policy in 1971, and began reporting on CO2 emissions as early as 1994. But truly have a deep history in all three pillars of ESG. So that legacy is great, in that it not only gives us a head start in navigating the landscape and proposed rules. But it also has helped establish responsibilities within the organization, as well as avenues for communication between groups.  So really fortunate to have that legacy. But even with that head start, recent activity in the ESG space comes with even more and it adds incremental objectives that we all need to navigate. Including pending regulations that I've mentioned. Rating agency requests, shareholder needs, analyst inquiries, and countless other internal and external factors. So really important to emphasize how important that open lines of communication and regular touch points with different functions are. And, also, the importance of educational sessions to bring awareness of what other functions are managing and striving towards. Leadin...

In this episode of the Count Me In podcast, host Adam speaks with Matt Druckman, an expert in the field of crypto accounting, about the challenges of accounting for digital assets. With no authoritative guidance in place, Matt explains the framework of best practices and opinions that have been pulled together to guide the industry. However, as the nature of crypto and digital assets is changing rapidly, there is a need for increased vocalization and guidance from regulatory bodies such as the FASB. Matt also highlights the complexities of cost basis and accessing and making sense of data, which can present challenges for accountants as they try to categorize and report on digital assets. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the field of crypto accounting and the future of accounting for digital assets. Connect with Matt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-druckman-60a21938/Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. The podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. In today's episode we explore the world of crypto accounting with Matt Druckman, currently, the Vice President of Business Development at Soft Ledger. A company focused on helping companies get their data faster.  Despite the existence of non-authoritative guidance, there is still no clear framework for crypto accounting. The lack of clarity is due to the, constantly, evolving nature of digital assets. Which are not easily categorized within traditional accounting practices. Join us as we navigate the Wild West of crypto accounting and discuss best practices for accounting, in this rapidly changing field. Matt, thank you so much for coming on the Count Me In podcast today. I'm really excited to be talking to you about crypto accounting. And, as everybody knows, Bitcoin has been around since 2008. But when you look at the authoritative guidance there is none, it feels like the Wild West. And maybe, as an expert in the field, you can talk a little bit about what it looks like to be in the crypto accounting space. Matt:              Great, thanks so much for having me on, Adam. Happy to get into this a little bit with you. You're exactly right, there is not authoritative guidance, yet, on the topic. What we have is non authoritative guidance. We have this framework of best practices and opinions, that have been pulled together that folks are following.  There's a really good practice aid that the AICPA put out on accounting and auditing digital assets, and that's proven to be very helpful. But there is not this authoritative framework for people to follow. So everyone's still figuring this out and the nature of crypto, and digital assets, and their evolution is it's this breakneck pace. Things are changing on a daily, weekly, basis.  So there's, definitely, a need and an increased vocalization to have this guidance in place. And it does look like the FASB is really starting to take a harder look at this, we'll probably get into it a little bit later. But there's been some momentum, recently, specifically, in October, but right now it's still early days. Adam:            So when we think about accounting. It's been the same since the 15th century, when the first accountants came into place and they were writing their entries. The accounting has pretty much been the same at its core. And when you look at digital assets, they don't really fit that core. And, so, what does that look like, especially, prior to this FASB vote that happened in October of 2022? Matt:              Yes, it's a great point. And, so, you have this new asset class, digital assets, come into play here, and we need to figure out a way to account for them. And, I think, that's where some of this complexity has really arisen, is trying to figure out where to put these. And then once you put them there, what guidance are we following? And there, probably, isn't a one-size-fits-all and that's what's happened. And, so, currently, or prior to this vote, digital assets, for the most part, were treated as intangible assets, and following the guidance within ASC 350. And, so, as a result, you also need to follow the impairment guidance that exists, and it doesn't quite match up with the economics of what's taking place with a lot of these assets. Where you have these very active markets, readily available prices.  And, so, the idea of marking down an asset, and pairing an asset, when there is an event, which would theoretically be anytime the price drops below cost. You're never going to be able to write that back up. And that just doesn't quite make sense, in terms of how people are viewing these assets, and how they're using them, and they're leading to some very material impacts on financial statements.  And, so, that in and of itself is an area that people have been very vocal about, and trying to take a better look at how these should be classified and updating how we're accounting for them. Adam:            So, Matt, are there any more complexities that accountants have to be aware of, as they're really getting into the nuts and bolts of this accounting? Matt:              Yes, the cost basis piece is definitely a tricky one that we've addressed, and that can present a lot of issues, especially, with higher volumes. But another one that should be known is just the accessing and making sense of your data. It sounds like something that should be so simple.  You have these series of transactions that are taking place on an exchange, or within a wallet, or on a blockchain. And you're just assuming that you can pull that data down, easily, and it's all going to make sense, and everything's going to be nicely categorized and classified the way you want to see it. And that's really just not the case, at least, not in all cases, some have better data outputs than others. But, especially, as you start to get into more complex transactions and, maybe, you're getting more involved in DFI's, or dealing with NFTs, or just different less-plain vanilla transactions, if you will. Being able to make sense of the data that you're pulling down, and tag that properly, and ensure that that's going to be getting into the system in a way that you want to report on it.  It can be a bit manual. There could be a process that needs to take place, to make sure that you're properly categorizing everything and getting it into the system. It's not just going to pop out of an exchange or another data source, and everything's going to be nice and neat. So I think that going into it, knowing that there's going to need to be some work there and probably some processes that need to be ironed out.  Certainly, if you have maybe a little bit more of a sophisticated operation, and you're capable of putting a business logic layer on top of that data before it gets into your platform. A system like ours, like Soft Ledger, that's programmable via API, that's one way that data could be ingested. So there are some things to help automate that and smooth that process, but it can be a bit manual. I would think that in the future, as there's more reg...

Graham Stanton and Edgar Thomas co-founders of Advise  join Count Me In to talk about the current state of the market for accounting technology and the status of the industry today, which is constantly evolving. They discuss the lack of innovation in the accounting technology market and the pain points that practitioners face when using traditional tools. They share their vision for changing the status quo and making the accountant's job easier by reducing manual processes and reporting financial data more accurately and timely. The podcast also highlights the challenges of getting practitioners to adopt new technologies and the need for reimagining tasks to automate and reduce time spent on them. Connect with our speakers:Graham Stanton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/grahamstanton/ Edgar Thomas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edgart1/ Full Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. In today's episode, we have Graham Stanton and Edgar Thomas, the co-founders of Avise. A company that provides accounting technology solutions. Both my guests have seen many pain points that accountants face daily, and have worked hard to build solutions that address those pain points.  Despite the available innovation, practitioners still use the same tools from 15 to 20 years ago because of the lack of penetration by newer tools. Both Graham and Edgar share their vision of making an accountant's job easier and reducing manual processes. Join us as we discuss how technology can help accountants and the challenges they face, adopting new technology.  Adam:            Graham, Edgar, I just want to thank you both for coming on the podcast, today. We're really excited to have the co-founders of Avise on the podcast with us, today. And today we're going to talk about accounting technology. And I figure we could start off by discussing what is the current state of the market for accounting technology, and the status of the industry, today? Because it's constantly moving and evolving. Edgar:            Yes, thank you, Adam, really appreciate you having us both on, today. And, yes, it's a topic that we both feel very passionately about. For me, as an inactive CPA, but a practitioner that has worked with a lot of accounting tools, I've seen it from both sides.  So, right now, as an entrepreneur, building a solution that solves a lot of the pain points that I saw in the marketplace. But also the pain points that we're getting feedback from our current clients and prospects of our own. It is an exciting time to be looking at it because there is a lot of innovation going on today. But quite, frankly, practitioners, today, are doing a lot of the same thing and using a lot of the same tools they were using 15, 20 years ago. Because there's been such little penetration by the tools out there, today, available.  So when I was practicing as an in-house accountant, a lot of the tools I found lacked the vision or the understanding of what a practitioner needed to do. So they were focused more on FP&A and other finance functions. But didn't really focus on improving the lives of the core accounting suite. That the accountants had to do their jobs in on a day-in and a day-out basis.  So if you go and talk to an in-house accountant, at a company, and they talk about their close. And they say that it's five days, it's 10 days, it's 15 days, or maybe even 30 days long. And when you, actually, dissect the things that they're doing, you immediately see opportunities for improvement based on the tools that are available today, but are not available to the accountants, yet.  So that's one of the things that I feel very passionate about. Changing that and making it so that the accountants benefit from a lot of the tools and a lot of the innovation that we see elsewhere in the finance tech stack. So when it comes to tools like the ones we're building at Avise it's really focused on how do we make the accountant's job easier. To close the books, report out the information, the financial data more accurately and in a timely fashion, and reduce a lot of the manual processes. Graham:        I'll add to that a little bit. Obviously, Edgar and I share this vision here, and when we were getting started there's a lot of real pain coming through in our discussions. I previously worked somewhat cross-functionally and had a lot of experience with the tools that the marketers get, and that data engineers get. Ultimately, FP&A was starting to get, and, for whatever reason, the accountants have been at the end of the line. And there's been a lot of attitude of, "Well, accountants are paid to do this busy work, so what's the problem here?" And it's unfortunate, and, thankfully, accountants are starting to wake up and saying, "Well, it's the year 2022, almost 2023, we don't need to put up with this anymore." Adam:            And I think sometimes the biggest thing is that if it's not broke, they don't want to try to fix it. We've been doing the same thing and using the same technology for 15, 20 years, as Edgar was saying. But why change things up and mess it up? What do you guys think is the biggest problem with the current technology, the state of the technology as it is today? Edgar mentioned some of those things, people are trying to cut down the close, and those are some of the big problems that they're dealing with. But what's the problem with the actual technology that you think is causing them to not adopt it as fastly as possible? Edgar:            Yes, I can take this, I like the way your insight there is that, for a lot of folks they accept this status quo as, like "This is the way things are and should be, or will continue to be." One of the things I really enjoy about my job today is that as we show our tool to folks, the response is very common one. Where it's just like, "Oh, I didn't even know that that was possible, or I didn't even think about how much time it took for me to do that task." So a simple thing like a reconciliation month in and month out, may take an accountant 30 minutes, an hour, 2 hours, and it's just an accepted part of the job, "My job is to reconcile an account." But then when you reimagine what a reconciliation is, and you automate a lot of the components of that reconciliation, and reduce that from 30 minutes down to five minutes, a light bulb goes off. It's just like, "Okay, these are minutes, hours, of my life that I can get back, and I can do more value added things for the business besides a lot of these things, which are, quite frankly, busy work." So one of the things that we've come across is that there's a lack of knowledge. I've never seen this before among my accounting friends. I've never seen something like this before. And then it's like maybe a hesitation, like you said, "If it isn't broke don't fix it." If I know the system has been around since 1970 and, literally, my predecessors have been doing this, I know it works, and I will continue to do it.  So it is a really exciting journey that we've been on at...