
This Is Not Church Podcast
This Is Not Church podcast offers a compelling and thought-provoking exploration of the intersections between deconstruction, activism, spirituality, and the LGBTQIA+ community, as well as vital issues like Black Lives Matter and First Nations' rights. Hosted by passionate individuals who are dedicated to fostering open and inclusive conversations, this podcast delves into the complex journey of deconstructing one's faith, while simultaneously embracing and advocating for the rights and stories of the LGBTQIA+ community, as well as the fight for racial justice within the Black Lives Matter movement and the preservation of First Nations' cultures and rights. With a focus on examining the evolving landscapes of faith and identity, "This Is Not Church" provides a safe and informative space for listeners to engage with narratives of self-discovery, resilience, and transformation, ultimately encouraging a more empathetic and understanding society.
Latest episodes

Jul 5, 2021 • 1h 28min
Unlocking The True Nature Of God With C. Baxter Kruger
C. Baxter Kruger, a Trinitarian scholar and director of Perichoresis Ministries, delves into the divine nature of God and its implications for personal faith. He challenges traditional views of separation from God in Western Christianity, advocating for a deeper, transformative understanding rooted in grace. Baxter shares poignant moments that led to emotional revelations and the importance of genuine relationships with the divine. Engaging stories illustrate how parables reshape perceptions of God, urging listeners to embrace active participation in their faith.

Jun 28, 2021 • 1h 9min
The Art Of The Dissident: A Conversation With David Hayward (The Naked Pastor)
In this episode we talk with David Hayward - AKA The Naked Pastor.
After 30 years in the church, David left the ministry to pursue his passion for art. David Hayward - AKA NakedPastor uses words and images to challenge the status quo, deconstruct dogma, and offer hope for those who struggle and suffer under it.
David is no stranger to belief systems - he holds a Masters in Theological Studies, as well as Diplomas in Religious Studies and Ministry, and University Teaching. His art expresses the stories and struggles of spiritual refugees and independent thinkers who question, doubt or oppose the confines of religion. Each piece encourages difficult conversations and acts as a catalyst for critical thinking.
David is an artist and writer who supports LGBTQ+ people and groups, BIPOC and women artists, creatives, journalists, and more, and encourage others to do the same.
You can connect with David on:
Facebook Twitter Instagram
You can find and purchase all of David Hayward's Art and merch on his website
David Hayward's books can be purchased on amazon.com
You can connect with us on Facebook Instagram Twitter
Want to help us with our future episodes of This Is Not Church Podcast? Join us on Patreon where you will get access to exclusive patron content such as early access to episode, videos of upcoming episodes, and live Q&A sessions.
Also check out our website for upcoming interviews and blog posts
Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!
If you enjoy our show, could you take a moment to rate and review the podcast on your platform of choice. This will help new listeners find us.
Voiceover clip in intro used with permission by C. Baxter Kruger

Jun 21, 2021 • 1h 6min
Jesus And John Wayne: A conversation with Kristin Du Mez
In this episode we talk with Kristin Du Mez. Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University. She holds a PhD from the University of Notre Dame and her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics. She has written for The New York Times, The Washington Post, NBC News, Religion News Service, and Christianity Today, and has been interviewed on NPR, CBS, and the BBC, among other outlets. Her most recent book is Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation (which was just released in paperback).
You can connect with Kristin on:
Facebook Twitter Instagram
Check out Kristin's website
Kristin's books can be purchased on Amazon.com
You can connect with us on Facebook Instagram Twitter
Want to help us with our future episodes of This Is Not Church Podcast? Join us on Patreon where you will get access to exclusive patron content such as early access to episode, videos of upcoming episodes, and live Q&A sessions.
Also check out our website for upcoming interviews and blog posts
Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!
If you enjoy our show, could you take a moment to rate and review the podcast on your platform of choice. This will help new listeners find us.
Voiceover clip in intro used with permission by C. Baxter Kruger

Jun 14, 2021 • 1h 7min
Petitionary Prayer: Real or Superstition? A conversation with Mark G Karris
In this episode we talk to Mark Karris. Mark Gregory Karris is a licensed marriage and family therapist, theologian, adjunct professor, ordained pastor, husband, writer, recording artist, and worship leader. He's a voracious reader, researcher and all around biophilic. He has received a master's degree in counseling through the Alliance Graduate School of Counseling in Nyack, N.Y., a master of divinity from Drew Theological School in N.J., and is currently working through his PsyD from Alliant International University in San Diego.
You can connect with Mark on:
Facebook Twitter
Check out his website
His books can be purchased on Amazon.com
You can connect with us on Facebook Instagram Twitter
Want to help us with our future episodes of This Is Not Church Podcast? Join us on Patreon where you will get access to exclusive patron content such as early access to episode, videos of upcoming episodes, and live Q&A sessions.
Also check out our website for upcoming interviews and blog posts
Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!
If you enjoy our show, could you take a moment to rate and review the podcast on your platform of choice. This will help new listeners find us.
Voiceover clip in intro used with permission by C. Baxter Kruger

Jun 7, 2021 • 58min
Metaphysics, Reiki, and the Cosmic Christ with Katy Valentine
In this episode we talk to Katy Valentine about metaphysics, reiki, and the cosmic Christ. We delve into questions relating to the god of mystery. Katy received her PhD in New Testament from the Graduate Theological Union and is an ordained minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). She is one of the co-hosts of the very popular podcast The Heretic Happy Hour. She is also the co-host of Magical Mystery Journeys podcast. She is the author of For You Were Bought With A Price: Sex, Slavery, and Self-Control in a Pauline Community
You can connect with Katy on:
Facebook Instagram Twitter
Take a look at her website
You can purchase her book at amazon.com
You can connect with us on Facebook Instagram Twitter
Want to help us with our future episodes of This Is Not Church Podcast? Join us on Patreon where you will get access to exclusive patron content such as early access to episode, videos of upcoming episodes, and live Q&A sessions.
Also check out our website for upcoming interviews and blog posts
Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!
If you enjoy our show, could you take a moment to rate and review the podcast on your platform of choice. This will help new listeners find us.
Voiceover clip in intro used with permission by C. Baxter Kruger

May 31, 2021 • 1h 19min
The Human God - a conversation with Fr. Kenneth Tanner
In this episode we chat with Fr. Kenneth Tanner about finding a richer and more authentic connection to faith. Looking at the early church, and how it relates to us today. Seeing the humanity of Jesus. The human god...the suffering god.
Kenneth Tanner is pastor of Church of the Holy Redeemer in Rochester Hills, Michigan.
You can connect with Kenneth Tanner on:
Facebook Instagram Twitter
Check out the website for Church of the Holy Redeemer
You can connect with us on Facebook Instagram Twitter
Want to help us with our future episodes of This Is Not Church Podcast? Join us on Patreon where you will get access to exclusive patron content such as early access to episode, videos of upcoming episodes, and live Q&A sessions.
Also check out our website for upcoming interviews and blog posts
Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!
If you enjoy our show, could you take a moment to rate and review the podcast on your platform of choice. This will help new listeners find us.
Voiceover clip in intro used with permission by C. Baxter Kruger

May 24, 2021 • 1h 15min
Getting Comfortable in Uncomfortable Conversations with Felicia Murrell & Mercy Aiken
In this episode we chat with Felicia Murrell & Mercy Aiken about racism in America, the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, and the similarities and differences between these two issues that seem to divide our country.
Felicia is an ordained pastor with River Fellowship and presently resides in Atlanta, Georgia with her husband, Doug. Together they have served in church leadership and ministerial roles for almost 20 years. Currently, they oversee Wise Counsel Ministries bringing transformation to both people and organizations. Felicia’s greatest joy is loving people. With a heart to equip and empower others, her passion is to bring others into a revelation of sonship where they learn to walk as Jesus walked through the experience of Father God continuously loving them. She and Doug have 4 adult children.
You can connect with her on Facebook Instagram
You can get a copy of her book on Amazon.com
Mercy Aiken made Israel and Palestine lived intermittently in Bethlehem, Palestine, from September 2015 to the summer of 2020. Prior to this, she worked many years as a writer and leader in various web-based ministries and leadership in local churches. She is involved with Bethlehem Bible College and the biannual Christ at the Checkpoint conference held in Bethlehem which challenges evangelicals to consider the perspective and experience of Palestinian Christians. She is also committed to relationship and bridge-building work with Muslims and Jews. She is currently pursuing a Master’s Degree through St. Stephen's University and is the author of a soon-to-be-released book about Dr. Bishara Awad, the founder of Bethlehem Bible College, tentatively entitled "Fire in Bethlehem."
You can connect with her on Facebook Instagram
Want to help us with our future episodes of This Is Not Church Podcast? Join us on Patreon where you will get access to exclusive patron content such as early access to episode, videos of upcoming episodes, and live Q&A sessions.
Also check out our website for upcoming interviews and blog posts
Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!
If you enjoy our show, could you take a moment to rate and review the podcast on your platform of choice. This will help new listeners find us.
Voiceover clip in intro used with permission by C. Baxter Kruger

May 17, 2021 • 1h 5min
WTF with MJD: A conversation with Matthew J Distefano
In this episode we chat with Matthew Distefano. The author of the recently released Bonfire Session: A Year of Shadow and Flame.
Matthew J. Distefano is the author of multiple best-selling books, co-host of two podcasts, a long-time social worker, and hip-hop artist. He lives in Northern California with his wife and daughter.
You can connect with Matthew on:
Facebook Instagram Twitter
You can find his blog on Patheos
Check out his website
All of Matthew's books are available on Amazon.com
Want to help us with our future episodes of This Is Not Church Podcast? Join us on Patreon where you will get access to exclusive patron content such as early access to episode, videos of upcoming episodes, and live Q&A sessions.
Also check out our website for upcoming interviews and blog posts
Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!
If you enjoy our show, could you take a moment to rate and review the podcast on your platform of choice. This will help new listeners find us.
Voiceover clip in intro used with permission by C. Baxter Kruger

May 10, 2021 • 1h 8min
And Now, Deep Thoughts With Meg Calvin
In this episode we chat with Meg Calvin. The author of - I Am My Own Sanctuary: How A Recovering Holy-Roller Found Healing And Power.
Meggie Lee Calvin (Meg) is an Amazon Bestselling Author, Wife, Mom, Speaker, Podcaster, and Coach who helps her fellow Spiritually-Attuned Go-Getters find confidence and certainty in who they were meant to be.
You can connect with Meg on:
Facebook Instagram Twitter
Follow this link to her website
Meg's books are available on Amazon.com
Want to help us with our future episodes of This Is Not Church Podcast? Join us on Patreon where you will get access to exclusive patron content such as early access to episode, videos of upcoming episodes, and live Q&A sessions.
Also check out our website for upcoming interviews and blog posts
Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!
If you enjoy our show, could you take a moment to rate and review the podcast on your platform of choice. This will help new listeners find us.
Voiceover clip in intro used with permission by C. Baxter Kruger

May 5, 2021 • 51min
Bonus Episode - Before You Lose Your Mind
In this bonus episode we talk chat with two of the authors of the recently released book - Before You Lose Your Mind. This book is a direct response to another book released by the Gospel Coalition the title of which I will not put here. This is a must read for anyone who has gone through or is going through deconstruction.
Before You Lose Your Mind can be purchased in paperback or eBook at Amazon.com
Here is the list of authors that contributed to this book with links to their pages. Please check out their books/writings as well.
Brandon Andress
Michelle Collins
Derrick Day
Matthew J. Distefano
Brandon Dragan
Jason Elam
Maria Francesca French
Keith Giles
Mark Gregory Karris
Matthew J Korpman
Josh Roggie
Rev. Dr. Katy Valentine
Skeeter Wilson
Want to help us with our future episodes of This Is Not Church Podcast? Join us on Patreon where you will get access to exclusive patron content such as early access to episode, videos of upcoming episodes, and live Q&A sessions.
Also check out our website for upcoming interviews and blog posts
Each episode of This Is Not Church Podcast is expertly engineered by our producer The Podcast Doctor Eric Howell. If you’re thinking of starting a podcast you need to connect with Eric!
If you enjoy our show, could you take a moment to rate and review the podcast on your platform of choice. This will help new listeners find us.
Voiceover clip in intro used with permission by C. Baxter Kruger