Emily Kircher-Morris talks with Barbara Pape, Senior Director of the Learner Variability Project, about the concept of learner variability. The conversation touches on the importance of recognizing each student's unique strengths and challenges. They explore how educators can support neurodivergent learners through personalized instruction, they cover the role of technology in education, and talk about the need for a sense of belonging in the classroom. The discussion also touches on the barriers educators face in addressing learner variability and the evolution of educational policy to better support diverse learners. TAKEAWAYS Learner variability is the recognition that each student has unique strengths and challenges. Teaching to the middle does not effectively reach any student. Understanding learner variability allows educators to see design challenges rather than student problems. The Learner Variability Navigator is a tool for educators to understand and support diverse learners. Creating a sense of belonging is crucial for student engagement and success. Students should have agency in how their accommodations are presented to peers. Belonging in the classroom requires a whole child approach. Educational policy must evolve to provide adequate support for neurodivergent learners. Barbara Pape is the Senior Director of the Learner Variability Project at Digital Promise, where she led a national survey on learner variability, edtech, and teacher practice, authored the defining paper on learner variability, and co-developed the IEP Project, which emphasizes strength-based, whole-child approaches to writing IEPs. She also hosts a monthly edWeb webinar series and previously served as executive producer of the award-winning Teaching & Learning conference for the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards. Her background includes roles in public policy, having worked on former U.S. Senator Paul Simon’s Senate and Presidential campaign, as well as in the U.S. Senate on the Education and Labor Committee. Barbara has contributed to numerous publications and was the editor and publisher of the first electronically delivered education newsletter, The Daily Report Card. She serves on the boards of Benetech and The Riley Project and is involved in multiple education and learner variability working groups. Previously, she was an advisor for the Kennedy Center’s Intersection of the Arts and Special Education and a strategic planning committee member for Montgomery County Public Schools. She is currently pursuing a PhD at University College London, holds an EdM in reading and literacy from Harvard University’s Graduate School of Education, and began her career as a middle school language arts teacher. BACKGROUND READING Facebook, Twitter/X, LinkedIn, YouTube, The Learner Variability Project, The Learner Variability Navigator The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com

On episode 264, we’re sharing our sister podcast’s conversation about the double empathy problem. In Creating Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools, Emily Kircher-Morris and Amanda Morin explore a concept that challenges the assumption that neurodivergent individuals lack empathy, and instead highlights how misunderstandings happen between different neurotypes. They share personal stories, real-world classroom scenarios, and strategies to help educators bridge the communication gap with their neurodivergent students. TAKEAWAYS The double empathy problem—what it is and why it matters in schools. How educators can shift from assuming misbehavior to seeking understanding. The difference between cognitive empathy (perspective-taking) and affective empathy (emotional connection). Why curiosity and asking the right questions can prevent conflict and improve student-teacher relationships. Strategies for making classroom environments more emotionally safe for neurodivergent students. BACKGROUND READING The Double Empathy Problem (Damian Milton, 2012)  Neurowild by Em Hammond – Visual resources explaining neurodiversity concepts  Neurodiversity University Educator Hub: Join the Community Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools: Transforming Practices So All Students Feel Accepted and Supported - Order here The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com

Today, Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes Natalia Aíza, a therapist and advocate, to talk about the complexities of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD). They debunk common myths and misconceptions, and talk about what OCD actually is. It's important to understand the OCD cycle, be able to identify the various types of OCD, and understand how it often coexists with other neurodivergent conditions like ADHD and autism. They also talk about the impact of reassurance seeking, the nuances of Just Right OCD, and the challenges of school refusal. The conversation includes insights into how parents and therapists can better support individuals with OCD, and help them on the journey towards a better life. TAKEAWAYS OCD is often misunderstood, with many believing it only relates to cleanliness. The OCD cycle involves triggers, obsessions, and compulsions that reinforce fears. Moral scrupulosity and harm OCD are common types that are often overlooked. OCD is distinct from generalized anxiety. ADHD and OCD can coexist, leading to unique challenges in diagnosis and treatment. Autism can complicate the presentation of OCD, requiring specialized understanding. Reassurance seeking can inadvertently reinforce OCD behaviors. Just Right OCD reflects a perfectionism that can manifest in various aspects of life. School refusal can be a manifestation of OCD, leading to avoidance patterns. Episode featuring Eli Lebowitz Check out our Neurodiversity University courses, including Strategies for Supporting Twice-Exceptional Students. This episode was edited to add clarity to the subject of school avoidance or refusal, to indicate they aren’t exclusive to OCD. For some neurodivergent kids, it is a matter of a lack of accommodations and supports that make educational settings traumatic environments. School avoidance or refusal is a nuanced subject, and a deeper dive is planned for an episode in the near future. Natalia Aíza, LPC, is a therapist, parent trainer, and advocate dedicated to increasing awareness and improving treatment for individuals with OCD. She co-founded Kairos Wellness Collective, a therapy center specializing in OCD and Anxiety Disorders, where she works to enhance competency among mental health practitioners and support individuals on their healing journey. In addition to her clinical work, Natalia provides free psychoeducation and advocacy through her Instagram platform, @letstalk.ocd, helping to destigmatize OCD and promote evidence-based treatment. She earned her BA in Literature from Harvard University and an MA in Clinical Mental Health Counseling from Palo Alto University. BACKGROUND READING Instagram Kairos Wellness Collective The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com

Today Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes Leah Kuypers, developer of the Zones of Regulation framework, to discuss self-regulation skills. They talk about the importance of emotional awareness, the practical applications of the framework in educational settings, and how it provides a common language for expressing feelings. Leah shares insights from her experience as an occupational therapist and educator, including the impact of the framework on students' ability to communicate their emotions and navigate their environments effectively. They discuss the need to move away from labeling emotions as good or bad, and explore practical strategies for implementing self-regulation tools in educational settings. TAKEAWAYS Self-regulation challenges significantly impact students' well-being and success. The Zones of Regulation framework provides a common language for expressing feelings. All zones are valid; there are no good or bad zones. Visual supports can help neurodivergent students communicate their feelings. The framework is designed to foster emotional intelligence and self-awareness. Teaching self-regulation skills can reduce reliance on punitive measures. The framework can be adapted for various age groups and needs. Emotional intelligence can be difficult to articulate, even for older students. Co-regulation with adults can help children identify and manage their emotions. Understanding the neurobiological aspects of regulation can inform better support strategies. Check out the Strategies for Supporting Twice-Exceptional Students course, and all of the others available now in the Neurodiversity University. Leah Kuypers, MA Ed., OTR/L, is an occupational therapist, autism resource specialist, and educator, dedicated to helping individuals develop self-regulation skills. While working in public schools, she recognized the profound impact that regulation difficulties had on learners’ overall well-being and daily functioning. This led her to develop The Zones of Regulation, a systematic and practical framework designed to foster emotional and sensory regulation. Since its initial publication in 2011, The Zones of Regulation has sold over 300,000 copies worldwide and has been widely adopted in educational and therapeutic settings. In 2024, Leah launched The Zones of Regulation Digital Curriculum, which has already been implemented in 40 countries. Her team trains more than 8,000 educators and practitioners annually around the globe, equipping them with tools to support learners in developing essential self-regulation skills. BACKGROUND READING Zones of Regulation Facebook Instagram YouTube The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com

Today Emily Kircher-Morris talks with Gestalt language processing expert Ali Battye about the nuts and bolts of Gestalt, and why it's useful and important in understanding and supporting neurodivergent communicators. They talk about the barriers faced by Gestalt language processors, the role of augmentative and alternative communication (AAC), and the need for a strengths-based approach in communication. There are some common misconceptions about Gestalt language processing, and they explain and dispel them in this conversation. TAKEAWAYS Echolalia has become a helpful part of the learning process in Gestalt. Understanding the child's intent is crucial for effective communication. AAC can support children who struggle with verbal communication. Communication should be viewed as a connection-based approach. Misinformation about Gestalt language processing is prevalent. Real-life communication is complex and multimodal. Valuing a child's unique communication style fosters growth. Research on language acquisition should include lived experiences. Be notified when the Therapist Hub opens for new members. It's a great opportunity to transform your practice into a more neurodiversity-affirming place, using tools and methods that benefit all clients. It's also a great resource for accredited CE! Ali Battye is a highly experienced speech and language therapist with 25 years of practice in the UK and Australia. She specializes in neurodiversity-affirming therapy for autistic and neurodivergent children, with a focus on supporting Gestalt Language Processing (GLP) through Augmentative and Alternative Communication (AAC). Ali is also an accomplished author, having written books on AAC and, most recently, on GLP, advocating for joyful therapy that prioritizes genuine connection. Ali’s expertise is rooted in her extensive clinical experience and commitment to creating inclusive, supportive therapeutic practices that empower neurodivergent individuals. BACKGROUND READING Instagram Ali Battye’s book

Today we're discussing the concept of whole body listening, and its evolution to whole body regulation. Elizabeth Sautter joins Emily Kircher-Morris to talk about that evolution, and what it means to neurodivergent people and those who support them. They discuss emotional regulation and co-regulation, the role of educators and parents in modeling emotional awareness, and the impact of shame on neurodivergent learners. Also, the complexities of vulnerability, and the significant difference between calling someone out, and calling them in. TAKEAWAYS The shift from whole body listening to whole body regulation is crucial. Co-regulation is foundational for emotional regulation. Adults must model emotional awareness for children. Understanding individual needs is key to effective learning. Shame can hinder the learning process for neurodivergent kids. Brene Brown's work highlights the importance of discussing vulnerability and shame. Calling in promotes understanding and change more effectively than calling out. The stages of grief can be applied to the process of unlearning harmful practices. Self-reflection is essential for educators and parents to shift their approaches. Be notified when the Therapist Hub opens for new members. It's a great opportunity to transform your practice into a more neurodiversity-affirming place, using tools and methods that benefit all clients. It's also a great resource for accredited CE! Listen to Emily's other podcast, Creating Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools, co-hosted by Amanda Morin. Elizabeth A. Sautter, MA, CCC, is a speech-language pathologist, speaker, author, and trainer, with expertise in social communication, emotional regulation, and executive functioning. She is the author of Make Social and Emotional Learning Stick! Practical activities to help your child manage emotions, navigate social situations & reduce anxiety, along with many other resources, including an online course and community for parents. Elizabeth collaborates with the Zones of Regulation team as a trainer and is a coauthor of the Zones children’s books, card decks, and games. BACKGROUND READING Elizabeth Sautter’s website Instagram Facebook

On this episode, Emily Kircher-Morris and Dr. Daniel Ansari discuss the complexities of math education, including the anxiety it can cause in students, the challenges of teaching methods, and the importance of understanding learning difficulties like dyscalculia. They talk about the importance of explicit instruction in math, the role of neuroscience in understanding how children learn math, and the significance of working memory and attention in math learning. Educators and parents will also get suggestions for practical strategies that will help them support students struggling with math. TAKEAWAYS Math anxiety affects both children and adults. Explicit instruction is crucial for teaching math. Dyscalculia is often misunderstood and underrecognized. Teaching methods should align with children's developmental levels. Neuroscience reveals links between spatial and numerical processing. Math anxiety does not equate to a lack of ability. Timed practice should be engaging, not competitive. Working memory plays a significant role in math learning. Multisensory approaches can enhance math instruction. Parents should seek community and resources for support. Assisting Students Struggling with Mathematics from the Institute of Education Sciences The Think Inclusive Podcast episode Emily talked about - Saving ED: Why the U.S. Department of Education is Essential for Students with Disabilities This episode is sponsored by The Council for Exceptional Children, getting ready for their Convention & Expo in Baltimore, March 12-15th. Go to cecconvention.org to register! Dr. Daniel Ansari is a Professor and Canada Research Chair in Developmental Cognitive Neuroscience & Learning at Western University. He leads the Numerical Cognition Laboratory, where his research focuses on how children develop numerical and mathematical skills, as well as the cognitive factors contributing to difficulties in learning mathematics. Dr. Ansari and his team are dedicated to bridging the Science of Learning with K-12 education, working to translate research findings into classroom practice. He has authored over 150 peer-reviewed research articles and is a Fellow of the Canadian Institute for Advanced Research (CIFAR), recognized for his contributions to the field of developmental cognitive neuroscience. BACKGROUND READING The Numerical Cognition Laboratory The Neurodiversity Podcast is available on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you can also join our private Facebook group.

Effective teaching involves more than just what happens formally in the classroom, and on this episode, Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes educator and author Adam Meyersieck to talk about it. They discuss the need for engaging teaching methods that connect with students emotionally and socially. They discuss collaboration between parents and educators to support neurodivergent learners, and the significance of strengths-based approaches in teaching. They cover sustainability of the teaching profession, the use of multiple communication modalities, and managing visual clutter to enhance learning environments. TAKEAWAYS Teaching should focus on the process, not just the end result. Collaboration between parents and educators enhances student support. Strengths-based assessments can bridge the gap between home and school. Visual aids can clarify expectations for neurodiverse students. Processing time is crucial for student understanding. Simplicity in instructions aids neurodivergent learners. Sustainable teaching practices lead to better educator retention. Explicit instruction benefits all learners, not just neurodivergent ones. Engaging multiple modalities helps all students retain information better. Providing written instructions fosters independence in learners. Managing visual clutter reduces distractions and enhances focus. Get the newsletter and keep up-to-date about the Emily and Amanda's new book, Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools: Transforming Practices So All Students Feel Accepted and Supported, and the new podcast, Creating Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools. This episode is sponsored by The Council for Exceptional Children, getting ready for their Convention & Expo in Baltimore, March 12-15th. Go to cecconvention.org to register! Adam Meyersieck is a school district leader, consultant at Legacy Education Group, and educator with nearly two decades of experience in special and inclusive education, professional learning, and neurodiversity teaching strategy. He has trained thousands of educators and school leaders in the US and Great Britain, helping them create inclusive, strength-based learning environments that truly support neurodiverse students. He is also the author of Universal Best Practices for All Learners: Discover Your Teaching Strengths, a book designed to help educators leverage their strengths and make teaching more sustainable while meeting the needs of all learners. Adam is passionate about helping school leaders and teachers better connect with their students, ensuring that education is both effective and equitable. BACKGROUND READING Adam’s website Facebook LinkedIn The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group.

In the second of our powerful two-part conversation, Emily Kircher-Morris and Dr. William Dodson discuss the complexities of ADHD, emotional dysregulation and its subset, and Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria (RSD). He explains how RSD can manifest in ADHDers, the impact of childhood experiences, and the importance of understanding and treating these conditions. There is a need for updated diagnostic criteria and effective treatment strategies, including medication and supportive environments. They dig into the complexities of ADHD, including management strategies, and the importance of understanding the overlap between social anxiety and mood disorders. TAKEAWAYS Emotional dysregulation is often overlooked in ADHD diagnoses. RSD is a specific condition affecting many with ADHD. The emotional pain from RSD can be both emotional and physical, and can lead to significant life impairments. Childhood experiences can exacerbate RSD but are not the sole cause. Medication can be effective in managing emotional dysregulation. Understanding RSD is essential for clinicians working with ADHD patients. Preventative strategies are key in managing RSD episodes. Sleep, nutrition, structure, and routine play vital roles in emotional regulation. Social anxiety and rejection sensitivity can coexist but are distinct. The research project Emily mentions in her closing thoughts. The sign-up window is open for a limited time, for the Neurodiversity University Educator Hub! Join a community of like-minded teachers, administrators, and advocates who are passionate about supporting neurodivergent kids. It's a welcoming space to share ideas that will help make your classrooms and school districts better places for all students. The Educator Hub is available via an app for your smartphone, or online through a browser. Click and join us. Dr. Bill Dodson is a board-certified adult psychiatrist who has specialized in adults with Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder for the last 27 years. In recognition of his clinical contributions to the field of ADHD he was named a Life Fellow of the APA in 2012. He was the 2006 recipient of the national Maxwell J. Schleifer Award for Distinguished Service to Persons with Disabilities. His contributions to the field of ADHD include: The only currently available methodology for the fine-tuning of ADHD medications. The concept of Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria and its treatment with medications. The first non-behavioral theory of what ADHD is and how it can be treated successfully with an emphasis on what goes right rather than what goes wrong. Dr. Dodson has a book for clinicians, patients, and parents on the practice of ADHD medicine coming out at the end of 2025. BACKGROUND READING Bill Dodson’s website Dr Dodson’s contributions to ADDitude magazine

In part one of a two-part conversation, Emily Kircher-Morris and Dr. William Dodson discuss the complexities of ADHD, emotional dysregulation and its subset, and Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria (RSD). He explains how RSD can manifest in ADHDers, the impact of childhood experiences, and the importance of understanding and treating these conditions. There is a need for updated diagnostic criteria and effective treatment strategies, including medication and supportive environments. They dig into the complexities of ADHD, including management strategies, and the importance of understanding the overlap between social anxiety and mood disorders. TAKEAWAYS Emotional dysregulation is often overlooked in ADHD diagnoses. RSD is a specific condition affecting many with ADHD. The emotional pain from RSD can be both emotional and physical, and can lead to significant life impairments. Childhood experiences can exacerbate RSD but are not the sole cause. Medication can be effective in managing emotional dysregulation. Understanding RSD is essential for clinicians working with ADHD patients. Preventative strategies are key in managing RSD episodes. Sleep, nutrition, structure, and routine play vital roles in emotional regulation. Social anxiety and rejection sensitivity can coexist but are distinct. The window is open for Educator Hub sign-up for a limited time, beginning January 31. Join a community of like-minded teachers, administrators, and advocates who are passionate about supporting neurodivergent kids. Click and join us. Dr. Bill Dodson is a board-certified adult psychiatrist who has specialized in adults with Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder for the last 27 years. In recognition of his clinical contributions to the field of ADHD he was named a Life Fellow of the APA in 2012. He was the 2006 recipient of the national Maxwell J. Schleifer Award for Distinguished Service to Persons with Disabilities. His contributions to the field of ADHD include: The only currently available methodology for the fine-tuning of ADHD medications. The concept of Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria and its treatment with medications. The first non-behavioral theory of what ADHD is and how it can be treated successfully with an emphasis on what goes right rather than what goes wrong. Dr. Dodson has a book for clinicians, patients, and parents on the practice of ADHD medicine coming out at the end of 2025. BACKGROUND READING Bill Dodson’s website Dr Dodson’s contributions to ADDitude magazine