Reimagining Justice

In today’s episode no. 30 you are in for a treat to hear from Hallie Jay Pope, founder and director of the Graphic Advocacy Project “GAP”, a non-profit that uses visual communication tools---like comics, graphic design, and animation---to explain legal concepts and advance social justice. Hallie works with advocates and communities across the United States to create visual legal resources that engage, inform, and mobilize. Hallie is a delightful and creative person and very clear about her mission and how to achieve it, by drawing on her skills as an artist and designer, and lawyer. In this episode she shares how she became a legal cartoonist, how the GAP came about and the projects she’s worked on over the last 3 years. Hallie has strong views about why legal information is so hard to understand and discusses the biggest advantage of her law degree. We talked about naked characterisations of people - you’ll just have to listen to make sense of that and towards the end of the interview, Hallie defines legal innovation by what it’s not – both a lawyerly and creative response. Hallie was very frank about the challenges of founding and running the GAP and no doubt there will be entrepreneurs listening who will empathise. You should listen to this episode if you want to understand the benefits of visual justice, or you are challenged by resourcing and fundraising in your organisation and of course, if you are interested in making the law more understandable to the everyday person. This episode brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic. LINKS: Graphic Advocacy Project The Convivial Toolbox Making comics by Linda Barry Lex Narro Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In today’s episode no. 29 I had the pleasure of speaking with Carolyn Devries, CEO and founder of Australia’s first non profit law firm New Way Lawyers for today’s episode. When Carolyn experienced a disconnect between how law is practised and what she learned in law school, and wanted to find a way to express her core values through her work, she developed the idea of and founded new way lawyers 10 years ago. Carolyn has strong views and advocates at every opportunity as to why legal services that involve strong emotions for the clients, such as family law and estate law, should be delivered through a non profit model. She sees family law as a community service with strong public policy implications, and I tend to agree. Provision of legal services, or someone’s inability to access legal services can lead to a greater demand on other social services. Carolyn shared her personal story about the early days of new way law, the fun and not so fun parts, especially being challenged by other members of the profession about her approach, sometimes from sectors of the profession you would expect to be more supportive. And you might be wondering, being not for profit how is this business sustainable? Carolyn explains how she keeps the lights on, while keeping her staff happy and her fees affordable. If you are someone who tunes in to hear about the use of technology in a practice, you’ll get a few tips towards the end of the interview regarding how to maximise efficiency and streamline services. Apart from increasing your profit margins, doing so could garner you interest in your practice from around the country and overseas, as it has in the case of New Way lawyers. This episode brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic. New Way Lawyers Lex Narro Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In today’s episode no. 28, I interview John Mayer, Executive Director of the Centre for Computer Assisted Learning Instruction (CALI) since 1994. CALI is a non-profit consortium of 198 US law schools that conducts applied research in computer-mediated legal education and publishes over 1000 tutorials in 40 different legal subject areas for law schools, law firms and others interested in learning about the law. CALI also publishes Creative Commons law books at elangdell.cali.org and is the developer of A2J Author which is used by courts, legal aid and law schools to automate legal processes and court forms for self representing litigants. John explains what it was that led to the initial development of open source document assembly software, A2J Author around 20 years ago now and how it is improving processes for courts, self-represented litigtans and lawyers. John sees almost unlimited potential in making it easier to compile information for courts but also appreciates the challenges that legal assistance organisations face in doing so. He has some interesting views about the part that commercial legal tech vendors can play in this regard and somewhat curiously, the challenge of marketing a free platform. We discuss the best use cases for document automation and his views on AI and blockchain and also some deeper issues about social change movements and why innovation thinking is preferable to design thinking. John has a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science from Northwestern University and a Masters of Science in Networks and Telecomm from the Illinois Institute of Technology and has been working in legal education for over 30 years. This episode brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic. Links: Centre for Computer Assisted Learning Instruction “CALI”  and elangdell.cali.org A2J Author LSC grants Lex Narro Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In today’s episode no. 27, I interview Meera Klemola, legal designer extraordinaire. We discuss what Meera appreciates about design - how it can break down silos between lawyers and other professionals, allow for empathy, change mindsets and de-risk solutions. I asked her the benefits and limitations of design thinking and how it compares to systems thinking. Meera has carefully considered all these issues through her work and postgraduate study into teaching design to non-designers, in particular lawyers. We also covered the essential ingredients of a successful design thinking project and how to evaluate effectiveness, something I’m always interested in. If you want to hear me being put on the spot with a creativity exercise definitely tune in. You might also be surprised about Meera’s views on whether anyone can practise legal design and whether it should be taught in law schools. Meera’s philosophy is to enable courageous change with design and technology. As a trusted advisor to global brands and top tier law firms, she is constantly exploring the ways design and technology can strategically advance businesses and legal systems. Formerly, Lead Legal Designer of a Nordic Law Firm, Meera was responsible for the integration and scaling of design practices through the firm to transform its offerings. She also spearheaded a series of design driven ventures for the firm including co-founding Europe's first legal design agency. In March last year, she founded Observagency. Both a strategic designer and lawyer, Meera holds a unique combination of qualifications in Law, Commerce and Design Management, giving her a truly multidisciplinary perspective and rare mix of creative, strategic and analytical know-how. This episode brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic. Links: Observ Agency Legal design Hague Institute for Innovation in Law Stanford Legal Design Lab Lex Narro Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In today’s episode no. 26 I speak with Rohan Pavuluri, co-founder and CEO of Upsolve, a non-profit that helps low-income families file bankruptcy for free, using an online web app. In the last 12 months, Upsolve has relieved over $100 million in debt and is the largest not for profit provider of bankruptcy in the US. In this episode we discuss the issues that Rohan and his co-founder Jonathan Petts wanted to address in starting Upsolve, how the online platform actually works and who it is most suitable for. We cover the most common types of events that lead people into bankruptcy and why people should file but find it difficult to do so. While Rohan studied statistics at university he explains where his personal interest in justice and policy comes from. He also shares some of his personal difficulties with this venture, how he dealt with doubt in the early days and the ongoing challenges - and also what he’s most proud of. And for justice entrepreneurs starting out with a new venture, Rohan had some unexpected advice. This episode has it all and very much fits the themes of the podcast… sustainability, challenges of a justice entrepreneurship, the need for both advocacy and direct services, when to scale and when not to and the need for a deep understanding of the issue you are addressing. I suspect Upsolve will go from strength and strength for many reasons. One of which may be the fact that it is focussed on 1 singular issue, what do you think? This episode brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic. Links: Upsolve Robin Hood Foundation Blue Ridge Labs Legal Services Corporation Lex Narro Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In today’s episode no. 25, Edward Santow, Australia’s Human Rights Commissioner speaks to Reimagining Justice about one of many projects he is responsible for, namely the Commission’s Human Rights and Technology project. Whether you know a little or a lot about human rights or artificial intelligence, you will gain something from listening to our conversation about the most extensive consultation into AI and Human Rights anywhere in the world. Ed explains exactly what human rights are and why they should be protected, how technology is both enhancing and detracting from human rights and the best approach to take in regulating emerging technology in the future. We talked about protecting the rights of the most marginalized people, automated decision making and how to combat bias and something I found particularly fascinating, the tension between the universality of human rights, ubiquitous technology and how differing cultural contexts and historical experiences are shaping the principles that will guide both the development and application of technology. Ed Santow has been Human Rights Commissioner at the Australian Human Rights Commission since August 2016 and leads the Commission’s work on technology and human rights; refugees and migration; human rights issues affecting LGBTI people; counter-terrorism and national security; freedom of expression; freedom of religion; and implementing the Optional Protocol to the Convention Against Torture (OPCAT). Australian Human Rights Commission AHRC Human Rights and Technology Project Australian Government AI and Ethics principles Australian Law Reform Commission Future Program 2020-25 Lex Narro Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In today’s episode no. 24 Karen Finch, CEO of Legally Yours explains the reasons people don’t engage with lawyers and which suggested an online platform connecting clients with lawyers would be a valuable idea. Karen explains how the connections are made through the platform and what is critical to a successful relationship between lawyer and client. She shared the biggest challenge she’s faced in promoting the platform and what is unique about it, including what she’s learnt and applied from dating sites and who she’s turned away. We talked about the importance of people finding the right legal help at the right time and how beneficial it would be to the consumer legal market, for different stakeholders to collaborate on cross-referrals for different client groups and legal issues. We briefly discussed the Australian Legal Technology Association and women in tech. I really loved Karen’s definition of legal innovation, probably because I could relate so much to what she said. You should listen to this episode if you want to understand more about the barriers people experience in going to see a lawyer, are interested in developing trusted relationships with your clients, and otherwise curious about how legal services could be joined up so people know where and how to get legal help that they can trust. This episode brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic. Links: Legally Yours ALTA B1G1 Lex Narro Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In today’s episode no. 23, Stacy Butler, Director, of Innovation for Justice at the University of Arizona Law speaks about the courses she coordinates and teaches, how they came about, what they teach including how they incorporate design thinking methodologies, but most importantly what they add to systems reform in Arizona and especially their local community. I was amazed to hear about the collaboration both within the courses themselves, with students from a broad range of disciplines, and collaboration across universities, which provides such a powerful voice. Stacy shared about the importance of supportive leadership in running new initiatives like her courses and where she thinks innovation will make the most difference in the delivery of legal services in the next five years. She commented a few times that I asked her questions no-one had asked her before, not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing… You will gain a lot from this episode if you are establishing or running an innovative university course, especially one that is multidisciplinary, interested in the connections and impact that can be made by students, universities working with communities and regulators, and especially if like more, you just love the idea of law students and art students working together to develop more effective human services. Links: Innovation for Justice Step Up for Justice Arizona Task Force Hello Landlord Tucson Rent Project Legal Design Summit Lex Narro Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In today’s episode no. 22, I had the great pleasure of speaking with Katie who is currently the Deputy commissioner of IBAC in Victoria and who in 2015 as then President of the Law Institute of Victoria wrote a paper “Disruption, Innovation and Change”. Her reasons for doing that research were quite unexpected, as was the connection she draws between tech, atj and her happy place the queen Victoria market! You will gain a lot from this episode if you are a legal tech start up or technology company looking to partner with justice organisations or working in an organisation and responsible for implementing new projects. Katie shares her definition of failure and the importance of leadership. We had a wide ranging discussion covering why solutions can’t be imported wholesale from other jurisdictions, tips for responding to people and organizations at different stages of their innovation journeys, how incorporated legal practices are relevant to innovation, challenges of implementing new technology in a government context and for community legal centres, and especially what’s needed with an organization before you consider collaborating on innovation projects. This episode is brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic. Lex Narro is an easy to use app available on iOS, Android and web, that provides an effortless way for lawyers to manage, deliver and generate reports of CPD requirements. Subscribe here to make your lawyer life that little bit simpler. Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to rapidly build applications that automate any aspect of their services. Recently, Neota released Canvas – which goes a step further by allowing subject matter experts to build applications on their own in minutes without any prior training or programming skills. More about Canvas here. Links: Disruption, Innovation and Change: The Future of the Legal Profession The Advantage Lex Narro Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In Episode no. 21 I interview the “father of incubators” Fred Rooney. Fred generously shares his vast experience in establishing incubators in the US and other places around the world. From one program with nine students established around 15 years ago in New York, there are now over 70 programs worldwide training law graduates in areas of law that enable them to serve their local communities, as well as how to run a viable practice. Incubators are unique training programs supported by a law school or law association as a way of addressing the issue of oversupply of law graduates and the growing levels of unmet legal needs. And through specific training in how to use legal skills to serve those who can’t afford typical legal fees, incubators are fulfilling the human need in lawyers who want to help those less fortunate. This episode will be of special interest to legal educators wanting to ensure their graduate lawyers are ready for practice and to provide legal services to low and middle-income communities, and anyone interested in using their legal skills for the public good. This episode is brought to you by Lex Narro, an easy to use app available on iOS, Android and web, that provides an effortless way for lawyers to manage, deliver and generate reports of CPD requirements. Subscribe here to make your lawyer life that little bit simpler. Links:  ABA Incubators Report Open Society Foundations Lex Narro Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group