
Reimagining Justice
Welcome to Reimagining Justice - a global podcast for the change makers in law and the first Australian-based podcast shining a light on issues at the intersection of law, social justice and innovation.
Join Andrea Perry-Petersen, an Australian lawyer and social justice advocate, as she interviews guests from around the world who have discovered and implemented innovative ways to update the legal profession while improving people’s experience of the law.
Andrea brings a unique perspective on stories which will inspire you to take positive action in the delivery of legal services for the benefit of lawyers, clients and society.
The world is changing, and the legal profession must keep up.
Legal systems around the world are not meeting people’s legal needs – there is a global access to justice crisis. What are the solutions and where can they be found?
Whether you are a legal business owner or legalpreneur
wanting to expand your market, run a purpose driven business or improve your service delivery model; a legal professional or law student curious about a career in social justice or legal tech (or both!); interested in systems design or proven ways to make positive social change, or simply looking to be inspired,
then this is the podcast for you!
Latest episodes

Feb 1, 2021 • 50min
Game-changing services to advance people-centred justice with Kanan Dhru
Episode no. 50 features Kanan Dhru. Our discussion covers: What is user-friendly, people-centred justice; The importance of data and evidence-based research; HiiL’s justice dashboard; Key factors for innovation at scale; How the justice accelerator works; The parallels between the medical and legal professions; How HiiL is transforming the justice sector; What you will learn at the Innovating Justice forum; 7 gamechangers for improving people-centred justice; How Kanan’s definition of legal innovation has changed since Episode 8! Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours. Links: The Hague Institute for Innovation of Law “HiiL” Innovating Justice Forum Haqdarshak (India) Legally Yours Neota Logic Pro Bono Impact 25 Awards Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

Jan 18, 2021 • 53min
A model of trust, technology and innovation with Elizabeth Shearer
Episode no. 49 features Elizabeth Shearer, President of the Queensland Law Society (“QLS”) and Founder of Affording Justice. Our discussion covers: the impact of Covid19 on the profession; what changes should remain; the purpose of the QLS Access to Justice committee and the ‘scorecard’; best uses for technology and the opportunity before the profession; Elizabeth’s journey to establish Affording Justice; how the Affording Justice model has evolved; key takeaways from her Churchill Trust research into telephone delivery; how to define success as a lawyer; guidance on low bono and unbundling; how Elizabeth will know she’s been a success as QLS President; and Elizabeth’s definition of legal innovation! Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours. Links: Affording Justice QLS Access to Justice Scorecard Elizabeth’s Churchill Fellowship report Legally Yours Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

Dec 8, 2020 • 59min
The new normal? Dispute resolution that relies on technology and human expertise with Laura Keily
In this episode no. 48 I spoke with Laura Kiely, Barrister and Founder of online dispute resolution platform, Immediation. Our discussion covers: How Laura’s experience in corporate law and at the Bar led her to this point; Immediation – the need it addresses, how it was designed and how it works in practice; The types of clients implementing it and the matters with which it assists; The role of government and private companies in filling gaps in the market, especially as relates to access to justice; The impact of Covid19 on dispute resolution in general and what this has meant for Immediation; How life as a lawyer compares to life as a start up founder and overlaps in skills; Why Laura continues to practise law while running a company with 50 employees; Immediation’s funding journey; and Laura’s definition of legal innovation! Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours. Links: Immediation HRC ”Addressing the problem of algorithmic bias” Legally Yours Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

Nov 23, 2020 • 1h 15min
Blockchain, crowdfunding and community building to solve justice challenges with entrepreneur Stevie Ghiassi
In this episode no. 47, I speak with Stevie Ghiassi, CEO and co-founder of Legaler, and Chairman of Legaler Aid. Our discussion covers: The mission of Legaler Aid and how it works in practice What inspired Stevie to found Legaler Aid to address the justice gap How Legaler Aid is expanding the network of lawyers doing pro bono work What Stevie considers the first step in modernising legal services Why incorporating blockchain technology is critical Video conferencing technology Legaler and its application during the pandemic The work of the Australian Legal Technology Association (“ALTA”) Tips for founders including where to base yourself and getting the structure right The pending launch of comprehensive global research about the business of legal tech, the Global Legal Technology Report and Directory Stevie’s definition of legal innovation! Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours. Links: Legaler Aid Legaler Global Legal Tech Report ALTA Legally Yours Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

Nov 9, 2020 • 55min
The best consumer-facing legal technology now and in the future with Brendan Lacota
In this episode no. 46 I speak with Brendan Lacota, Head of Community Programs at Justice Connect and Vice-President of the Law Institute of Victoria. This interview covers: How online tools help and what technology was used to develop: FineFixer, Dear Landlord, Justice Connect Answers and onlinewillkit.com How to design an online tool How to acquire skills to design an online tool Insights Brendan has gained and why he still applies them The best form of consumer facing legal technology right now and use cases for technology in the future What has most surprised him over his time implementing technology into a legal practice A specific product Justice Connect is developing to combat elder abuse His priorities for service with the Law Institute of Victoria and Law Council of Australia Brendan’s definition of legal innovation or, more particularly what it’s not! Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours. Links: Justice Connect Fine Fixer Dear Landlord Paper Giant Online will kit Legally Yours Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

Oct 26, 2020 • 54min
The pandemic and the opportunity for reform with President of the American Bar Association Patricia Lee Refo
In this episode no. 45 I speak with President of the American Bar Association and Partner, Snell & Wilcox, Ms Patrica Lee Refo. This interview covers: The ABA’s mission, including racial equity and other practical strategies The current focus on unmet legal needs due to the pandemic The impact of the pandemic on the practise of law including remote working and training junior lawyers The once-in-a-lifetime opportunity facing the profession Who are the people best-placed to innovate and reform How the historic ABA resolution regarding reform was developed and passed The importance of experimenting and measuring what works The role of technology and paraprofessionals in creating more options for everyday people Specific ABA projects including Free Legal Answers, Legal Tech for a change, the Miranda tool and Floodproof app The power inherent in being a lawyer The need to build back justice systems that are better than before Ms Refo’s definition of legal innovation or, more particularly what it’s not! Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours. Links: American Bar Association Free Legal Answers Legally Yours Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

Oct 12, 2020 • 1h 8min
How reimagining regulation leads to an innovative, competitive and affordable legal market
In this episode no. 44 I interview Lucy Ricca, Executive Director at Office of Legal Services Innovation, Utah Supreme Court. Lucy and I discuss what is arguably the most significant changes to the practice of law in the US in approximately 100 years including reducing economic restrictions around who can practice law to enable more innovation, more scale, and more access for consumers of legal services. We canvas how the current rules of legal regulation limit innovation and access to legal services, and most importantly what we can do about that. This interview covers: The key factors that led to establishing the Implementation Task Force on Regulatory Reform, especially how the task force progressed from theory to practice The work of the task force including setting up the regulatory sandbox What a regulatory sandbox is and its process for assessing risk Key concerns from lawyers about the potential rule changes The types of applications in the sandbox What will make the biggest difference Lucy’s definition of legal innovation Links: Office of Legal Services Innovation, Utah Supreme Court Gillian Hadfield “Rules for a flat world” Legally Yours Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

Sep 28, 2020 • 1h 15min
How self-help makes legal practise easier and improves the administration of justice with Katherine Alteneder
Reimagining Justice covers issues at the intersection of innovation, law and social justice. You’ll enjoy it if you’re someone who hopes to make a positive improvement to people’s experience of the law through new ways of thinking and doing. Self-represented litigants… do you love them or loath them? Well either way they are a fact of life and this episode will give you some ideas about how to best respond to self rep litigants no matter which side of the fence you’re on. This is episode no. 43 and I speak with Katherine Alteneder, Consulting Senior Strategic Advisor with the Self-Represented Litigation Network. This episode covers: how the network most effectively facilitates people from diverse backgrounds, how the network measures the value of its work, exactly what self-help is and why it’s considered a core service of the court, her idea for a community council to hold courts accountable, Katherine’s definition of legal innovation, and the importance of judicial education about self-representation. If there’s one thing you won’t want to miss it will be Katherine’s tips on what to do when you find yourself opposing a self-represented litigant and practical ways of assisting emotionally charged clients so you can get on with the legal work. Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours Links: Self-Represented Litigation Network Justice for All Project (Amanda Brown interview) and How to apply a commercial mindset to reap results for your legaltech project with Amanda Brown Court navigators Self-help Legally Yours Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

Sep 14, 2020 • 1h 9min
The keys to embedding digital transformation in any organisation with Kate Fazio
In this episode no. 42 I speak with Kate Fazio, Head of Innovation and engagement at legal services charity Justice Connect, where Kate leads an interdisciplinary team to develop products and strategies such as the Gateway Project and Pro Bono Portal to increase access to Justice. For her work transforming justice Kate has received many awards including the 2020 Telstra Business Women’s Award (For Purpose) and the 2019 Victorian Premier’s Design Award in Service Design. As a lawyer, technologist and journalist with a Masters in Social Impact, Kate is a change-maker bringing an intersectional lens to improving access to justice in Australia. This interview will be helpful if you want to embed digital transformation across your organisation or guarantee a program with impact. And wait until you hear Kate’s definition of MVP. You should listen to this episode if you want to know more about: The work of Justice Connect (“JC”), its clearing house function and how it assists individuals and not-for-profit organisations How online strategies have extended JC’s impact How JC determined its digital transformation strategy The human-centred design process for digital innovation projects The best time to release a digital product The tensions that exist when prioritising projects and for community lawyers working with agile project design Sources of funding for new projects How JC digital projects have assisted with response to the Australian bushfires and the pandemic The key benefits of technology The role of data and measurement The “divide” between private and public legal service delivery The role of law schools could take to research social impacts of the law Kate’s definition of legal innovation How her views have changed since commencing this work Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours. Links: Justice Connect Pro Bono Portal Legally Yours Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

Aug 31, 2020 • 57min
How to meet client's needs with limited resources and new models of service delivery with Angela Lynch
This is episode no. 41 and I am speaking with experienced lawyer, and advocate for survivors of domestic and family violence, Angela Lynch, CEO of Women’s Legal Service Queensland. With over 23 years in the domestic violence legal sector, Angela has a deep understanding of the issues and translates this practical legal knowledge and experience into significant law reform, policy, community legal education and safer client outcomes. In 2017 Angela’s dedication to the sector was acknowledged when she was awarded the Lawyer’s Weekly Women in Law Not-for-profit Lawyer of the Year, and Women in Law Excellence Award and the Women’s Agenda National Emerging Leader in the Legal Sector award. In this episode we discuss the work of Women’s Legal Service Qld in championing frontline operations, external advocacy, client services including for rural and regional women, and fundraising. You will hear how women’s legal service has responded to the pandemic, in particular the significant increase in demand for its services after lockdown, in changes to its service delivery, managing staff and volunteers and how it has been able to influence government policy. Regarding digital innovation, we discuss the penda app, which was a first of its kind offering to assist women with legal and financial information. Angela shares how the idea came about, where the funding came from, the challenges of hosting the app and advice she’d give to other organisations or lawyers looking to develop similar tools. We covered projects that arose when women’s legal service observed specific community needs not being met, as well as Angela’s opinions relating to family court initiatives including the lighthouse project. You should listen to this episode if you want to hear how human-centred design works in action, and how in response to the pandemic, technology is increasing access to justice. Links: Women’s Legal Service Qld Law & Justice Foundation NSW “Quantifying the legal and broader life impacts of domestic and family violence, Justice issues paper 32” Penda App The Lighthouse Project Neota Logic Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group
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