Reimagining Justice

In episode no. 70 my guest is lawyer, creator and producer of social project ‘Law for the Lay’, Clarissa Campbell. We discuss: The project she began in 2019 to share the law with everyday people; What happened that prompted her to actually start the project;  How her personal and professional background influences her approach; Her unique style using play and humour to share legal information; How she chooses the topics that she covers; Her legal and branding concerns relating to ‘Law for the Lay’; How she selected which social media platform to use, and the challenge of staying up to date with how algorithms work; What a “Lawfluencer” is; Research she’s done for the project which shocked her; Topics that have received unusual responses and how she handles those challenges; The level of technical support she receives and how she manages her time; Things she’s working to improve about her communication; Other ways in which citizens’ legal awareness could be increased; How acting on our own ‘agency’ and unique skills can assist others; Given it is open to interpretation, I had to ask about her choice of name for the project; Covid interruptions and future plans; and Clarissa’s definition of legal innovation. Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic  Links: ‘Law for the Lay’ Clarissa (@lawforthelay)  Saga Land Overland Track  Neota Logic Solution Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust Project Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In episode no. 69, I reflect on the podcast over the past 12 months and since it began. I share: statistics about Reimagining Justice (downloads, topics, guests and listeners); the most downloaded episodes this year and since the podcast began; an excerpt from Episode 66 with founder Courtroom5 Sonja Ebron; characteristics of (award-winning) justice innovators; and 3 things I learned about legal innovation this year. Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic. Links: Neota Logic's App Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust project  QLS Innovation report Top Australian law podcasts Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In episode no. 68 my guest is serial public sector transformer, Pia Andrews. We discuss: how her pursuit of “truth” led her to the open-source movement and working in policy development; how technological tools relate to our quality of life; ‘open source’ – its philosophy and implementation and the idea of “clever hacks”; how ‘rules as code’ addresses issues with enforcing regulation; prescriptive and principles-based rules and when each are appropriate; the connection between the cost of implementing regulation and its effectiveness; how an API for prescriptive rules relating to anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism funding could have saved one bank $16M per year!; how ‘rules as code’ make compliance more transparent by allowing for modelling, and how this could increase accountability of the public sector; how current policy creation is insufficient and requires input from community and an example from France which incorporated co-design of policy; Taiwan’s response to the introduction of Uber! the importance of multidisciplinary teams in developing policy and how ‘rules as code’ facilities doing so in real time; how ‘rules as code’ improves trust and compliance with administrative law and shifts the onus to government; different public sector approaches to the “new normal”; how the relationship between the public sector and its government drives outcomes; whether a public sector should serve – the government, parliament or the people? 3 things necessary to create an environment for innovation and solving wicked problems; the connection between capacity and innovation, and Pia’s ideas about how to increase civic participation through a “civic gap year” and “policy difference engine”; and of course Pia’s definition of legal innovation. Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic Links: Linux Home TedX multipotentialite Emilie Wapnick: Why some of us don't have one true calling | TED Talk Docassemble  Legislation as Code and better rules Building a trustworthy public sector with trust infrastructure Neota Logic's App Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust project Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In episode no. 67 I speak with Kate Briscoe, of LegalBeagles. The discussion covers: how Kate’s inability to get a job played a part in starting LegalBeagles; how LegalBeagles works today; the large numbers of threads and visitors to the site; the emerging areas of law covered by LegalBeagles; who the volunteers are, what training they undertake to assist on the platform and why Kate thinks they contribute; how LegalBeagles is filling a gap and providing assistance that isn’t being provided anywhere else including from the funded Citizens Advice Bureau; LegalBeagles’ governance structure and relationship with professional legal regulation; Kate’s views on how a lot of innovation initiatives put the “cart before the horse”; the many reasons it may not be appropriate to go to a lawyer; how machine learning is drawing on LegalBeagles’ employment law data to provide instant responses; various set-backs LegalBeagles has experienced including loss of a major partner; Kate’s thoughts on the role of the legal profession in addressing the justice crisis; sources of monetisation and sustainability of the platform; where legal consumers actually go for legal help and how they know who to trust; the link between litigation, health and justice; how the model is saving lives; and Kate’s definition of legal innovation. Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic Links: LegalBeagles  JustBeagle SRA | Solicitors Regulation Authority Neota Logic's App Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust project Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In episode no. 66, I speak with Sonja Ebron, founder of Courtroom5. The discussion covers: Sonja’s personal experience as a litigant and how that relates to her work today; The types of matters Courtroom5 is best (and not!) suited to, who and how it assists; How the patterns in the law support AI, and how that fast-tracks self-represented litigants’ understanding of their matters; The factors for litigants to do best using Courtroom5; The tools Courtroom5 employs to alleviate emotional distress; The importance of support during litigation and how Courtroom5 provides that; What a “trial playbook” is; How Courtroom5 engages with courts and legal assistance organisations; Judges’ bias against self-represented litigants??? The structure and composition of Courtroom5’s team; Why Courtroom5 constantly seeks customer feedback; Key factors that drive development of the product; The biggest change since Courtroom5 commenced in 2017; Who are the unexpected users of Courtroom5; What has given the company “the biggest boost”; How Courtroom5 address the challenges of keeping information up to date; What keeps the founders working on such an intractable problem; and Sonja’s definition of legal innovation. Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic Links: Courtroom5 Neota Logic's App Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust project Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In episode no. 65 I speak with Michael Green SC, Barrister and founder of Barnet. The discussion covers: Open Law and how technology can make information more accessible; Who are custodians of legal information and how to best maintain it for future generations; The importance of libraries, their centrality to the law and the function of a library in an online world; The changes to the practise of law over the past few decades due to digitisation; Issues of copyright in digitising Commonwealth Law Reports in the “One to a hundred project” A failed experiment in the law: How BarNet’s purpose and activities have changed since 1997 including splitting the networking and the legal publishing functions; How legal researchers select online research platform; Why JADE considers cases at the “paragraph level” and how it actually works in terms of citations, note-ups and the technology and research that supports it; Current research into the differences in information retention from paper and electronic means; The function” of paper in reflection and contemplation, and limitations of online research; The question of ownership and resourcing of online materials; The role of predictive analytics and imagination in moving our society forward; The difficulty in reconciling different lenses through which we should regulate AI; The need to think carefully about the role of justice, courts and litigants; How Michael has maintained a busy practice at the bar and an online research company; and Michael’s definition of legal innovation. Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic Links: Open Law  Jade Welcome to ICLR Neota Logic's App Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust project Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In episode no. 64 I speak with Aniket Doegar, CEO and co-founder of HESPL (Haqdarshak Empowerment Solutions Private Limited), a social impact organisation working on easing access to welfare in India. We cover: What Haqdarshak offers to people and how its services are delivered through the most trustworthy channel; The key reasons that people in India don’t access government social services; Bridging the information gap between the government and its citizens; Why Haqdarshak works with local women and the training they receive; The challenges of training people in digital literacy; How many families and small businesses they’ve assisted, and how many female entrepreneurs they’ve trained; Collaborations they’re working on; The impact of the pandemic on their programs and technology channels and key factor meaning they could continue operating during the pandemic; The importance of both in-person and online options; Haqdarshak’s funding model and how they engage corporates to pay for justice (20min); The barriers they’ve faced in obtaining government information and the resources they use to keep it accurate and up to date; The reason they don’t advocate for change, even though they have lots of data; Why investing in their tech stack has facilitated innovation; The focus on the product first before scaling the program; Aniket’s background in the social justice sector; How using human centred design saved a lot of time along the entrepreneurial journey; The best form of technology to employ; How they got clear on their mission and vision; and especially what not to do; Haqdarshak’s roadmap to incrementally scale, improve process and culture in order to reach 100M people; What “Haqdarshak” means; and Aniket’s definition of legal innovation. Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic Links: Haqdarshak Neota Logic's App Gallery Neota Logic International Conference of Legal Regulators Churchill Trust project Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In episode no. 63 I speak with Genevieve Wilkinson, Lecturer, Faculty of Law, and Dana Rutner Law and Journalism Student at the University of Technology Sydney and team leader of “Moral Code”, the winning team of 2021 Allens Neota UTS Law Tech Challenge for social justice winning team. We discuss: what attracted Dana to the challenge; the format of the Law Tech Challenge, and the stakeholders involved; the critical role of mentors from Allens and the importance of the Neota training; what made the difference to working well as a team; how the teams gained a thorough understanding of the issues facing their partner not-for-profit Autism Spectrum Australia, “Aspect”; how they tested their ideas and the apps; the winning “Raffle app” – what’s unique about it, how it assists Aspect and its likely impact; is potential to scale and the challenges in achieving that; ethical issues relating to technology including from a human rights perspective; other apps created during the challenge to assist not-for-profit partners including Siana - helping International Social Service Australia with international child abduction applications under the Hague convention; Apollo - a volunteer coordination app for Respect Now Always; and Empower Her - reporting and providing feedback for the mentoring program for the Women's Justice Network; the key thing Dana learnt from this experience; the points of difference in this program; the benefits of collaboration between a law school and its students, not-for-profits, software providers and a law firm! Dana and Genevieve’s one word to describe the challenge; and Dana and Genevieve’s definitions of legal innovation. Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic Links: Law Tech Challenge Grand Final 2021 Aspect International Social Service Australia Respect Now Always Women's Justice Network Neota Logic's App Gallery  Neota Logic Feedspot Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

Episode no. 62 is with Lindsay Greatorex, Community Liaison and Education Officer (West Kimberley) with Legal Aid Western Australia (LAWA). We discuss: Blurred Borders - legal resource kits using visual art and storytelling to explain legal concepts in a culturally appropriate way why the kits were developed and how the project got started what sticks and rocks have to do with a bail process map the number of kits that have been distributed and who uses them the process the project team undertook to get the language and the art “right” the importance of community outreach in remote areas what accounts for the kits’ universal appeal how an artist identified what was missing and what that meant for adoption of the project by the community the form of user-centred design unique to this project the importance of collaboration across sectors the key benefits from the project some unintended consequences of the project how community workers have used the resource in helpful ways in local language the challenges of developing a project in such a remote area three times the size of the Tasmania (including the need for flexibility, high staff turnover and lack of understanding of the English language) the importance of having the right people to maintain the relationships in community and to ensure that it was culturally appropriate the tension between investing time to save time how Legal Aid WA determines if the project is having impact how the project engages clients and increases interaction what Lindsay would do to expand this project if he had a magic want whether technology would be appropriate for this application future uses for the resource kits and Lindsay’s definition of legal innovation! Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic Links: Blurred Borders Evaluation Guide to the Kimberley - Tourism Australia Neota Logic Feedspot Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

Episode no. 61 features Dan Jackson, Executive Director and Jules Rochielle Sievert, Creative Director of NuLawLab, Northeastern University School of Law. The NuLawLab is the interdisciplinary innovation laboratory at Northeastern University School of Law. It is one of the first law labs established in the US and its staff, students and stakeholders are leading the way in the emerging global Legal Design movement. Through its programs, projects, seminars, and research the lab builds cross-disciplinary teams and community-based partnerships focused on transforming legal education, the legal profession, and the delivery of legal services. The discussion covers: how the NuLawLab approaches problem-solving and collaborates with artistic people outside the walls of academia to find new ways of moving through complicated issues and to provide people with greater access to their legal rights; how integrating various design methodologies provides the freedom to explore and to work with community needs and values; what Dan and Jules see as the current and future possibilities for legal design, and what legal design shouldn’t be; how law students are involved in both long and short scale work; details of projects including RePresent game, and Stable Ground and how they had to pivot with the onset of the pandemic; how building trust with community organisations long term can shift the work from transactional to transformational; issues with innovation funding and how it could be better spent; how co-design centres community leadership and leverages resources to assist direct services; how each project and team gets started and developed (and why the lab doesn’t have an application form!); where project funding comes from and other important forms of sustainability; how Dan and Jules respond to requests to articulate the value of the lab’s work; the need to bridge the “language gap” between people from different disciplines; how black letter lawyers can approach work with people from other disciplines and why we need to work with creative fields; key factors for a successful innovative lab; how legal design enables lawyers to exercise their creativity; Dan’s idea about add-athons and Jules (re)definition of legal innovation! Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic. Links: NuLawLab Neota Logic Feedspot Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group