OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance

The meat industry and its defenders promise ethical consumption and sustainable farming, but animal agriculture fuels ecological destruction, entrenches human supremacy, and masks cruelty with comforting myths. John Sanbonmatsu, philosopher and author of The Omnivore’s Deception, shatters the myths of “humane meat” and the 'naturalness' of eating meat, and explains why abolishing the animal economy is essential to living an ethical human life. Highlights include:  Why growing up as the child of a Jewish mother and Japanese father in the U.S. sensitized John to bullying and injustice - against both human and nonhuman animals; Why the origins of human domination over animals are rooted in patriarchy and an ancient human estrangement from animals, and reinforced today by a toxic nexus of masculinity, human supremacy, neoliberal capitalism, and pronatalism; Why focusing only on factory farming misses the fundamental problem of human domination of animals and the planet - and how books like Michael Pollan's The Omnivore’s Dilemma and the new American pastoral ethos perpetuate myths of so-called ethical meat while attacking the animal rights movement; Why justifying meat-eating as “natural” is ethically bankrupt - on par with past appeals to nature to justify slavery or denying women’s rights - and how vegans and vegetarians provoke defensive ridicule because they reveal uncomfortable truths; Why the flood of scientific studies on animal cognition and emotion hasn’t changed behavior - and how cultural fascination with AI and plant consciousness distracts from our brutal treatment of fully sentient animals; Why bad faith - our self-deception about how we treat animals - is the most destructive force preventing moral progress, and why what we’re doing to animals deserves to be called 'evil'; How empathy, an evolved trait we share with animals and desperately need to nurture, is being eroded by increasing social disconnection and anti-empathy tech bro ideologies; Why lab meat, also known as 'clean meat', is not the solution to speciesism and human supremacism and consuming our way to animal liberation is a delusion; Why the animal rights movement is being undermined by the money pouring into utilitarian effective altruism and “realistic” approaches - when true compassion demands not animal welfarism, but the abolition of animal exploitation and a direct challenge to the entrenched power structures that prevent moral progress. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/john-sanbonmatsu   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Subscribe to our newsletter here: https://www.populationbalance.org/subscribe Support our work with a one-time or monthly donation: https://www.populationbalance.org/donate Learn more at https://www.populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

The nuclear industry and its boosters promise clean, abundant energy, but nuclear power delivers expensive electricity while posing catastrophic radiation risks and a constant threat of nuclear war. M. V. Ramana, physicist and author of Nuclear is Not the Solution, explains why respecting the limits of the biosphere means reducing our energy use and rejecting elites’ push for endless growth. Highlights include:  Why nuclear energy is inherently risky due to its complex, tightly coupled systems that are prone to catastrophic failures that can't be predicted or prevented; Why nuclear waste poses long-term threats to all life by remaining dangerously radioactive for thousands of years, with no safe, permanent disposal solution and frequent storage failures; Why nuclear energy is expensive, with projects routinely running over budget and behind schedule; Why the expansion of nuclear energy increases the likelihood of devastating nuclear war; How climate change and war-time accidents or direct targeting increase the risks of nuclear catastrophe; Why nuclear Uranium mining and its wastes often require ‘sacrifice zones’ that are disproportionately found in indigenous land and less powerful communities; How the nuclear industry shapes nuclear policy and debate by capturing regulators and creating an energy ‘panic’ based on one-sided narratives that block democratic discussion and scrutiny; Why, despite the hype from the nuclear industry, new nuclear plant designs like small modular reactors are subject to the same cost and safety concerns as the old designs;  Why the best answer to dealing with renewable energy's variability is not nuclear or fossil fuels but reducing demand; Why renewable energy is no panacea for planetary overshoot and why we need to have a broadly democratic conversation about living within the limits of the planet. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/mv-ramana   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Subscribe to our newsletter here: https://www.populationbalance.org/subscribe Learn more at https://www.populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

The world is colliding with the ecological limits of growth - and mainstream economics is still looking the other way. Peter Victor, ecological economist and author of Escape from Overshoot, joins us. Highlights include: How 'the pre-analytic vision' of ecological economics, unlike mainstream economics, recognizes that all economic activity is embedded in the biosphere of Earth; Why population growth has been the main driver of ecological overshoot in recent decades; Why markets routinely fail to protect public goods like clean air and water and often produce socially and ecologically unjust outcomes without government intervention; Why the adjectives put in front of the word 'growth', like 'inclusive growth' or 'green growth', reveal how the goal of economic growth is failing on a wide range of dimensions; Why the goal of green growth is delusional, as emissions must fall by 10 percent annually for 30 years in a row to meet climate goals - something no country has ever achieved; Why the money metric of valuing nature is woefully inadequate and why we should embrace multiple perspectives that recognize the sacred and relational dimensions of our relationships to nature; Why mainstream economists' assumption of infinite wants is misguided and why we should focus instead on moderating our material wants to achieve an abundance of joy and wellbeing. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/peter-victor   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Subscribe to our newsletter here: https://www.populationbalance.org/subscribe Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Academy Award-winning vegan filmmaker and former National Geographic photographer Louie Psihoyos joins us to share how he is using the power of storytelling to spark transformation for animal rights, human health, and environmental conservation. Highlights include: How The Cove, his Oscar-wining documentary and the first documentary to sweep all the film guilds, inspired activism that helped reduce dolphin and porpoise slaughter in Japan by over 90%; How his team’s audacious projection events of endangered species on iconic buildings including The Empire State Building, The United Nations and The Vatican for their film Racing Extinction, received over 5.4 billion media views and led to laws that protect some of Earth’s most endangered animals; How his third film, The Game Changers, a film about plant-based super athletes that exposes the myth that meat is necessary for protein, strength, and optimal health, triggered a 350% spike in online searches within a month of premiering on Netflix; What his Netflix Series, You Are What You Eat: A Twin Experiment, uncovered about the 8-week health benefits of plant-based eating, and how the results went viral; His most recent film Mission: Joy a buddy film starring his Holiness, The Dalai Lama and Archbishop Desmond Tutu about how to find joy in a world of sorrow has been seen by 10’s of millions of people around the globe; Where Louie’s focus is turning next: a new film exposing the destructive health impacts of plastic. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/louie-psihoyos   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Vanessa de Oliveira Andreotti, Dean at the University of Victoria and author of Hospicing Modernity, explores the complexities of modernity intertwined with her mixed Indigenous and German heritage. The discussion reveals the need for a compassionate acceptance of modernity's decline while fostering new collective approaches. She critiques separation from nature and advocates for a shift towards interconnections and emotional maturity. Andreotti emphasizes redefining agency and encourages a mindful navigation of our shared responsibility for a sustainable future.

Pamela Swanigan, an award-winning essayist and former university instructor, delves into the rhetoric of 'hopium' and its failures in addressing ecological overshoot. She critiques how children's literature reflects reverence for nature yet often succumbs to human exceptionalism. Pamela discusses the influence of Judeo-Christianity on our disconnect with nature, emphasizing the importance of Indigenous cultures in fostering resilience. Embracing J.R.R. Tolkien's 'long defeat,' she advocates for a courageous confrontation with ecological realities rather than delusional optimism.

There is no energy transition - only ongoing and symbiotic energy addition. Historian Jean-Baptiste Fressoz, author of More and More and More: An All-Consuming History of Energy, joins us. Highlights include: How the symbiotic relationships between wood, coal, and oil have led to increased use of all of them; Why decoupling economic growth from energy and materials use is a delusional myth; How the energy transition narrative evolved and why it's an "intellectual scandal" used to delay climate action through faith in techno-driven growth; How the IPCC’s focus on economic growth drives the energy transition narrative, downplays degrowth and sufficiency, and relies on unproven techno-fixes, such as Carbon Capture Storage (CCS); How safety norms were invented to secure industrial capital, and how criticisms and objections around technological risks were silenced or overcome to establish technological modernity. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/jean-baptiste-fressoz   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Patriarchy and misogyny fuel global conflicts that further increase the oppression of women and girls. But the resistance of women and girls remains steadfast. Sally Armstrong, award-winning war correspondent, author, and human rights activist, joins us to share their stories. Highlights include:  How Sally broke the story about mass rape in the Balkan War in the 1990s that was ignored by male-dominated mainstream media; How patriarchy became established and why women’s role in human history has been unrecorded and ignored;  Why cultural relativism can be an enemy of greater justice for girls and women; How misinterpretations of religious doctrine are used as justification for continued oppression of girls and women; How women and girls from Bosnia to Kenya to Afghanistan to Senegal continue to resist the injustice of patriarchy and misogyny in their daily lives. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/sally-armstrong   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Carol J. Adams, a feminist vegan advocate and author of The Sexual Politics of Meat, explores the deep intersections between patriarchy and animal agriculture. She shares her personal journey to veganism and discusses how societal norms link masculinity with meat consumption. Adams highlights the 'absent referent' concept, shedding light on how both animals and women are objectified. She emphasizes that veganism is a powerful political act of resistance against various oppressions, advocating for a collective approach to social justice and environmental awareness.

We have it in us to create a more beautiful, regenerative future that allows both humans and nonhumans to flourish. Dr. Sarah Bexell, professor of social work and co-founder of the Center for a Regenerative Future at the University of Denver, joins us. Highlights of our conversation include: Why captive breeding programs for endangered species are both cruel and ineffective; How the mental health of both conservation professionals and animal rights activists is deeply impacted by the ongoing suffering of both wild animals and farmed animals; How ongoing ecological destruction is causing eco-anxiety and eco-distress in students and some of the more effective classroom approaches to address it; How environmental justice differs from ecological justice and why we need to address both if we hope to create a more just, regenerative future; How Sarah helps students become aware of the role that human overpopulation plays in humanity’s ecological overshoot and helps make the classroom a comfortable place to discuss it.  See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/sarah-bexell-2   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org