OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance

The world is colliding with the ecological limits of growth - and mainstream economics is still looking the other way. Peter Victor, ecological economist and author of Escape from Overshoot, joins us. Highlights include: How 'the pre-analytic vision' of ecological economics, unlike mainstream economics, recognizes that all economic activity is embedded in the biosphere of Earth; Why population growth has been the main driver of ecological overshoot in recent decades; Why markets routinely fail to protect public goods like clean air and water and often produce socially and ecologically unjust outcomes without government intervention; Why the adjectives put in front of the word 'growth', like 'inclusive growth' or 'green growth', reveal how the goal of economic growth is failing on a wide range of dimensions; Why the goal of green growth is delusional, as emissions must fall by 10 percent annually for 30 years in a row to meet climate goals - something no country has ever achieved; Why the money metric of valuing nature is woefully inadequate and why we should embrace multiple perspectives that recognize the sacred and relational dimensions of our relationships to nature; Why mainstream economists' assumption of infinite wants is misguided and why we should focus instead on moderating our material wants to achieve an abundance of joy and wellbeing. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/peter-victor   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Subscribe to our newsletter here: https://www.populationbalance.org/subscribe Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Academy Award-winning vegan filmmaker and former National Geographic photographer Louie Psihoyos joins us to share how he is using the power of storytelling to spark transformation for animal rights, human health, and environmental conservation. Highlights include: How The Cove, his Oscar-wining documentary and the first documentary to sweep all the film guilds, inspired activism that helped reduce dolphin and porpoise slaughter in Japan by over 90%; How his team’s audacious projection events of endangered species on iconic buildings including The Empire State Building, The United Nations and The Vatican for their film Racing Extinction, received over 5.4 billion media views and led to laws that protect some of Earth’s most endangered animals; How his third film, The Game Changers, a film about plant-based super athletes that exposes the myth that meat is necessary for protein, strength, and optimal health, triggered a 350% spike in online searches within a month of premiering on Netflix; What his Netflix Series, You Are What You Eat: A Twin Experiment, uncovered about the 8-week health benefits of plant-based eating, and how the results went viral; His most recent film Mission: Joy a buddy film starring his Holiness, The Dalai Lama and Archbishop Desmond Tutu about how to find joy in a world of sorrow has been seen by 10’s of millions of people around the globe; Where Louie’s focus is turning next: a new film exposing the destructive health impacts of plastic. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/louie-psihoyos   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Vanessa de Oliveira Andreotti, Dean at the University of Victoria and author of Hospicing Modernity, explores the complexities of modernity intertwined with her mixed Indigenous and German heritage. The discussion reveals the need for a compassionate acceptance of modernity's decline while fostering new collective approaches. She critiques separation from nature and advocates for a shift towards interconnections and emotional maturity. Andreotti emphasizes redefining agency and encourages a mindful navigation of our shared responsibility for a sustainable future.

Pamela Swanigan, an award-winning essayist and former university instructor, delves into the rhetoric of 'hopium' and its failures in addressing ecological overshoot. She critiques how children's literature reflects reverence for nature yet often succumbs to human exceptionalism. Pamela discusses the influence of Judeo-Christianity on our disconnect with nature, emphasizing the importance of Indigenous cultures in fostering resilience. Embracing J.R.R. Tolkien's 'long defeat,' she advocates for a courageous confrontation with ecological realities rather than delusional optimism.

There is no energy transition - only ongoing and symbiotic energy addition. Historian Jean-Baptiste Fressoz, author of More and More and More: An All-Consuming History of Energy, joins us. Highlights include: How the symbiotic relationships between wood, coal, and oil have led to increased use of all of them; Why decoupling economic growth from energy and materials use is a delusional myth; How the energy transition narrative evolved and why it's an "intellectual scandal" used to delay climate action through faith in techno-driven growth; How the IPCC’s focus on economic growth drives the energy transition narrative, downplays degrowth and sufficiency, and relies on unproven techno-fixes, such as Carbon Capture Storage (CCS); How safety norms were invented to secure industrial capital, and how criticisms and objections around technological risks were silenced or overcome to establish technological modernity. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/jean-baptiste-fressoz   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Patriarchy and misogyny fuel global conflicts that further increase the oppression of women and girls. But the resistance of women and girls remains steadfast. Sally Armstrong, award-winning war correspondent, author, and human rights activist, joins us to share their stories. Highlights include:  How Sally broke the story about mass rape in the Balkan War in the 1990s that was ignored by male-dominated mainstream media; How patriarchy became established and why women’s role in human history has been unrecorded and ignored;  Why cultural relativism can be an enemy of greater justice for girls and women; How misinterpretations of religious doctrine are used as justification for continued oppression of girls and women; How women and girls from Bosnia to Kenya to Afghanistan to Senegal continue to resist the injustice of patriarchy and misogyny in their daily lives. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/sally-armstrong   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance

Carol J. Adams, a feminist vegan advocate and author of The Sexual Politics of Meat, explores the deep intersections between patriarchy and animal agriculture. She shares her personal journey to veganism and discusses how societal norms link masculinity with meat consumption. Adams highlights the 'absent referent' concept, shedding light on how both animals and women are objectified. She emphasizes that veganism is a powerful political act of resistance against various oppressions, advocating for a collective approach to social justice and environmental awareness.

We have it in us to create a more beautiful, regenerative future that allows both humans and nonhumans to flourish. Dr. Sarah Bexell, professor of social work and co-founder of the Center for a Regenerative Future at the University of Denver, joins us. Highlights of our conversation include: Why captive breeding programs for endangered species are both cruel and ineffective; How the mental health of both conservation professionals and animal rights activists is deeply impacted by the ongoing suffering of both wild animals and farmed animals; How ongoing ecological destruction is causing eco-anxiety and eco-distress in students and some of the more effective classroom approaches to address it; How environmental justice differs from ecological justice and why we need to address both if we hope to create a more just, regenerative future; How Sarah helps students become aware of the role that human overpopulation plays in humanity’s ecological overshoot and helps make the classroom a comfortable place to discuss it.  See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/sarah-bexell-2   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org 

Ecological overshoot is the second largest risk to humanity. Not reacting to it is the biggest. Mathis Wackernagel, co-creator of the ecological footprint and co-founder of the Global Footprint Network, joins us. Highlights of the conversations include: How ecological footprint is calculated as a measure of how much of nature’s regenerative capacity humanity is using; Why the estimate that we’re using the natural regenerative capacity of 1.7 Earths is an underestimate of humanity’s actual ecological overshoot; Why shrinking our ecological footprint needs to be framed as an opportunity for resource security, not just noble and charitable but absolutely necessary if humanity hopes to end overshoot more by design and less by disaster; Why international development schemes that emphasize GDP growth and not resource security won’t work for the ¾ of humanity stuck in the ‘ecological poverty trap’ of depleted resources and insufficient income to buy those resources from other countries;  Why countries not putting resource security at the center of their economic development plans is suicidal; Why peoples’ motivation to end ecological overshoot will be driven by desire, agency, and curiosity - not by trying to command and control peoples’ behavior.  See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/mathis-wackernagel   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org 

ANNOUNCEMENT Hello everyone, here we are in 2025 and we have some important news to share. Last year was a really challenging year – we grappled with new climate records, we saw worsening global conflict, and we saw an upsurge in regressive pronatalism. And the year ahead looks like it will include much of the same—which means that all of us will have to remain steadfast, and become even bolder in our work to fight back and advocate for life-affirming alternatives. PODCAST NAME CHANGE As part of that commitment, we’ve decided to rename the podcast. It’s been called the Overpopulation Podcast since 2016, yet in recent years we have increasingly explored subject-matter that goes well beyond the problem of overpopulation. We’ve delved into the injustice of pronatalism, the fallacy of pursuing endless economic growth, the inadequacy of technological solutions, and the hubris of human supremacy on a planet of unbounded natural wonders and riches. All these are facets of our perilous state of overshoot, wherein modern humanity’s demands on Earth’s natural systems outstrip their ability to recover and regenerate. Overshoot has increasingly been the underlying target of our podcast, and it’s driven by more than excessive human numbers. Although overpopulation will remain a central theme, it is time that the podcast name reflects the full scope of our concerns. We will continue to bring you the same caliber of guests and range of topics as always—with the drivers of overshoot, and pathways out of this predicament, the common unifying theme. ARTWORK We also have new artwork. The design juxtaposes an impoverished biosphere that is the result of continued overshoot and the Earthly abundance that is possible if we reverse overshoot by downscaling the human enterprise. The exponential growth curve at the root of our predicament separates these two realities.   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org