OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance

Carol J. Adams, a feminist vegan advocate and author of The Sexual Politics of Meat, explores the deep intersections between patriarchy and animal agriculture. She shares her personal journey to veganism and discusses how societal norms link masculinity with meat consumption. Adams highlights the 'absent referent' concept, shedding light on how both animals and women are objectified. She emphasizes that veganism is a powerful political act of resistance against various oppressions, advocating for a collective approach to social justice and environmental awareness.

We have it in us to create a more beautiful, regenerative future that allows both humans and nonhumans to flourish. Dr. Sarah Bexell, professor of social work and co-founder of the Center for a Regenerative Future at the University of Denver, joins us. Highlights of our conversation include: Why captive breeding programs for endangered species are both cruel and ineffective; How the mental health of both conservation professionals and animal rights activists is deeply impacted by the ongoing suffering of both wild animals and farmed animals; How ongoing ecological destruction is causing eco-anxiety and eco-distress in students and some of the more effective classroom approaches to address it; How environmental justice differs from ecological justice and why we need to address both if we hope to create a more just, regenerative future; How Sarah helps students become aware of the role that human overpopulation plays in humanity’s ecological overshoot and helps make the classroom a comfortable place to discuss it.  See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/sarah-bexell-2   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org 

Ecological overshoot is the second largest risk to humanity. Not reacting to it is the biggest. Mathis Wackernagel, co-creator of the ecological footprint and co-founder of the Global Footprint Network, joins us. Highlights of the conversations include: How ecological footprint is calculated as a measure of how much of nature’s regenerative capacity humanity is using; Why the estimate that we’re using the natural regenerative capacity of 1.7 Earths is an underestimate of humanity’s actual ecological overshoot; Why shrinking our ecological footprint needs to be framed as an opportunity for resource security, not just noble and charitable but absolutely necessary if humanity hopes to end overshoot more by design and less by disaster; Why international development schemes that emphasize GDP growth and not resource security won’t work for the ¾ of humanity stuck in the ‘ecological poverty trap’ of depleted resources and insufficient income to buy those resources from other countries;  Why countries not putting resource security at the center of their economic development plans is suicidal; Why peoples’ motivation to end ecological overshoot will be driven by desire, agency, and curiosity - not by trying to command and control peoples’ behavior.  See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/mathis-wackernagel   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org 

ANNOUNCEMENT Hello everyone, here we are in 2025 and we have some important news to share. Last year was a really challenging year – we grappled with new climate records, we saw worsening global conflict, and we saw an upsurge in regressive pronatalism. And the year ahead looks like it will include much of the same—which means that all of us will have to remain steadfast, and become even bolder in our work to fight back and advocate for life-affirming alternatives. PODCAST NAME CHANGE As part of that commitment, we’ve decided to rename the podcast. It’s been called the Overpopulation Podcast since 2016, yet in recent years we have increasingly explored subject-matter that goes well beyond the problem of overpopulation. We’ve delved into the injustice of pronatalism, the fallacy of pursuing endless economic growth, the inadequacy of technological solutions, and the hubris of human supremacy on a planet of unbounded natural wonders and riches. All these are facets of our perilous state of overshoot, wherein modern humanity’s demands on Earth’s natural systems outstrip their ability to recover and regenerate. Overshoot has increasingly been the underlying target of our podcast, and it’s driven by more than excessive human numbers. Although overpopulation will remain a central theme, it is time that the podcast name reflects the full scope of our concerns. We will continue to bring you the same caliber of guests and range of topics as always—with the drivers of overshoot, and pathways out of this predicament, the common unifying theme. ARTWORK We also have new artwork. The design juxtaposes an impoverished biosphere that is the result of continued overshoot and the Earthly abundance that is possible if we reverse overshoot by downscaling the human enterprise. The exponential growth curve at the root of our predicament separates these two realities.   OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance. Learn more at populationbalance.org   

Friendship is not a “nice-to-have” but a core, potentially transformative human connection. Rhaina Cohen, author of The Other Significant Others: Reimagining Life With Friendship at the Center, joins us. Highlights of our conversation include: The “friendship recession” and how modern culture undervalues friendships compared to romantic or family ties; Historical and cross-cultural insights into how friendship has been understood and prioritized in different societies; Stories from Cohen’s book about people redefining relationships, including platonic co-parents and friends who live together as chosen family; The legal and cultural barriers to elevating friendship as a socially sanctioned form of kinship and how policy reforms could better accommodate diverse relationships; Cohen’s personal experiences with an intense friendship that reshaped her understanding of love, intimacy, and societal expectations. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/rhaina-cohen ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance.  Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance  

Animals are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on, or use for entertainment. For International Animal Rights Day, we are joined by Ingrid Newkirk, co-founder and President of PETA, the world’s largest animal rights organization. Highlights of our conversation include: The formative experiences that inspired Ingrid to co-found PETA and dedicate her life to animal liberation; PETA’s groundbreaking campaigns that include both bold, confrontational activism as well as behind-the-scenes deliberation and negotiation; Major victories of PETA in transforming industries like food, fashion, experimentation, and entertainment to reduce animal suffering and the challenges that remain; Ingrid’s thoughts on global overpopulation, pronatalism, effective altruism, and the power that all of us have to help end animal suffering. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/ingrid-newkirk ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance.  Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance  

Population dynamics are deeply connected to environmental sustainability and social justice. That's the message of Pam Wasserman and Hannah Evans from Population Connection - the oldest grassroots population organization in the U.S. Highlights include: The origins of Population Connection and its evolution from ZPG (Zero Population Growth) to a broader mission addressing the intersections of population, environment, and social justice; How their K-12 education program trains thousands of teachers annually to teach students the importance of population dynamics within the broader issues of environmental sustainability; The connections between population growth, resource consumption, and climate vulnerability, and how addressing reproductive health and gender equality is key to mitigating these challenges; Insights into the challenges of discussing population in today’s polarized political climate and how depopulation panic gets in the way of meaningful dialogue; The impact of global partnerships and advocacy efforts, including family planning initiatives and tackling patriarchal norms for the sake of community empowerment and environmental protection.  See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/hannah-evans-pam-wasserman ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance.  Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance  

Healthy and thriving animal communities depend on healthy and thriving human communities. That’s the message from this week’s guest, Dr. Gladys Kalema-Zikusoka, Uganda’s first wildlife veterinarian and founder of Conservation Through Public Health. Highlights include: How a scabies outbreak among gorillas reshaped her approach to conservation, linking human health to the health of the gorillas; The role of family planning and community health education in reducing human population pressure, human-wildlife conflict and improving both conservation outcomes and local livelihoods; The balance between the benefits of ecotourism for funding conservation and the risks it poses to gorilla health; How Gorilla Conservation Coffee provides alternative livelihoods for farmers while supporting endangered gorillas and their habitats. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/gladys-kalema-zikusoka   ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance.  Learn more at populationbalance.org Copyright 2025 Population Balance  

Olivier De Schutter, UN Special Rapporteur on extreme poverty, sheds light on the damaging obsession with economic growth. He argues that poverty transcends income levels, exposing how unequal growth amplifies social exclusion. The podcast critiques global trade favoring corporations over workers and debunks the myth of 'green growth.' De Schutter emphasizes the commodification of everyday life and champions a shift toward sufficiency to promote collective well-being. His insights call for a fundamental rethinking of economic priorities, focusing on human rights and social equity.

Eating animals isn’t just a personal choice. It’s shaped by an invisible belief system, carnism, that conditions people to see eating animals as normal, natural, and necessary. Melanie Joy, social psychologist and author of Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows, joins us. Highlights include: How the three 'N's’ - normal, natural, necessary - are used to justify systems like carnism and pronatalism, and how dismantling these myths creates space for more compassionate choices; How cognitive distortions like objectification and dichotomization impact both human and animal relationships, perpetuating cycles of violence and oppression; Why dysregulated people dysregulate people and the formula for healthy relating; How relational literacy can empower activists to communicate skillfully, avoid burnout, and avoid infighting. See episode website for show notes, links, and transcript:  https://www.populationbalance.org/podcast/melanie-joy ABOUT US OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance [Formerly The Overpopulation Podcast] OVERSHOOT tackles today’s interlocked social and ecological crises driven by humanity’s excessive population and consumption. The podcast explores needed narrative, behavioral, and system shifts for recreating human life in balance with all life on Earth. With expert guests from wide-ranging disciplines, we examine the forces underlying overshoot: from patriarchal pronatalism that is fueling overpopulation, to growth-biased economic systems that lead to consumerism and social injustice, to the dominant worldview of human supremacy that subjugates animals and nature. Our vision of shrinking toward abundance inspires us to seek pathways of transformation that go beyond technological fixes toward a new humanity that honors our interconnectedness with all beings.  Hosted by Nandita Bajaj and Alan Ware. Brought to you by Population Balance.  Learn more at https://www.populationbalance.org/ Copyright 2025 Population Balance