unSeminary Podcast

In this special rushed episode of the unSeminary Podcast, Rich unpacks the biggest nonfiction book launch in history: Alex Hormozi’s $100M Book Launch. Alex didn’t rely on TikTok trends, billboards, or mass media. Instead, he orchestrated a carefully choreographed campaign that leaned heavily on email — sometimes sending seven to nine emails in a single day! So what can your church learn from this? I pull out three big lessons that every church leader should pay attention to: Campaigns, Not AnnouncementsMost churches think one announcement is enough. It’s not. Hormozi’s strategy shows us the power of multi-phase campaigns that build intrigue, reveal value, and lead to action. Over-Communication Beats Under-CommunicationChurches often fear “sending too much.” But Hormozi proved that variety and frequency cut through noise. Different voices, tones, and urgency hooks kept his audience leaning in — something we can apply to big days like Christmas or Easter. Compete in the Attention EconomyIn today’s distracted world, you can’t whisper and hope people will hear. Novelty, mystery, surprise — even Guinness World Record-style stunts — keep people engaged. Your church can adapt this mindset to make invite moments more compelling. I hope this episode helps translate these lessons into practical steps for your church, so you can strengthen your communication, deepen your invite culture, and move more people toward Jesus. A Next Step for You If you’re ready to sharpen one of the most important five minutes in your weekend service, don’t miss the Hosting Coaching Clinic … a six-week training designed to dramatically improve your service hosting. Each week includes actionable video lessons, best-in-class hosting examples, and tools to eliminate awkward moments, refine your “ask,” and boost engagement. Use the code ALEX at checkout to get 50% off. This is the perfect next step to put these communication lessons into action. Click here to enroll today IMAGE NOTE: No, I haven’t met Alex. The banner image is AI-generated and intended to serve as a pattern interrupt, following Hormozi’s style.

Taylor Scott-Reimer, a writer and advocate for women's voices in the church, shares her insights on creating inclusive spiritual communities. She discusses the importance of asking for women's perspectives and the quiet struggles they often endure. Taylor presents a three-step framework for reclaiming women's voices in church: reframing narratives, restoring practices, and rediscovering their significance. This engaging conversation encourages churches to embrace women's stories and facilitate open discussions to foster genuine inclusivity.

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re talking with Zenzo Matoga, Senior Pastor of Impact Church in Boston, Massachusetts. Originally from Malawi, Africa, Zenzo brings a passion for evangelism shaped by the revival crusades of Reinhard Bonnke. Under Zenzo’s leadership, Impact Church has become one of the fastest-growing churches in America, thriving in one of the nation’s most unchurched cities. Is your church struggling to move evangelism from a program to a culture? Zenzo shares practical strategies and spiritual insights that have helped Impact Church ignite revival in a spiritually dry place, equipping believers to impact one person at a time. Finding your city’s key. // Every city has a spiritual “key” that unlocks its people, and every church has a unique calling. For Boston, Zenzo identified young professionals as a primary audience. By fostering authenticity and sharing real-life stories, Impact created an atmosphere where unchurched people feel welcomed and understood. Zenzo stresses that pastors must seek God for the specific key to their city rather than copy other churches’ models. The power of authenticity. // Millennials and Gen Z are drawn to honesty and transparency. At Impact, leaders openly share personal stories—including struggles in marriage or faith—so that people see church as a place of grace, not perfection. This culture of authenticity empowers members to share their testimonies, creating an environment where evangelism feels natural and accessible. Impact One. // Zenzo’s book “Impact One: The Epic Prayer That Transforms Friends and Family” grew out of a desire to help every believer reach their unchurched loved ones. The book teaches a simple four-step process: First, gain a burden for the lost—pray for God to break your heart for what breaks His. Pray for one—write down three names of people far from God and pray for them. Practice friendship evangelism—become a genuine friend with no agenda. And finally, seal the deal—when the time is right, share your faith boldly. This framework equips everyday believers to live as “producers” of disciples rather than passive attenders. Embedding evangelism in the culture. // At Impact, evangelism isn’t a program—it’s woven into weekly practices. Every Sunday, the church prays the “Impact One prayer”: God, please give me one person to impact with your love and invite to church. Testimonies of changed lives are shared regularly, reinforcing a culture of outreach. Members are even encouraged to ask one another, “Who did you impact this week?”—keeping evangelism front and center. Practical systems for connection. // Impact Church uses two creative tools to make disciples. “F15” stands for the first 15 minutes after service, when members are encouraged to treat the lobby like a mission field, seeking out new people rather than gravitating toward friends. The “C.L.O.N.E.” model—Chronology, Location, Occupation, Number, Encouragement—gives members a practical framework for conversations that lead to authentic connections and ongoing discipleship. Radical worship as evangelism. // Zenzo bridges his background as a worship leader with his passion for evangelism. He believes radical, joy-filled worship breaks spiritual strongholds and attracts unbelievers seeking something beyond what the world offers. In a city defined by intellectualism and materialism, Impact’s passionate worship embodies the presence of God in a way that draws people to conviction and freedom. From evangelism to discipleship. // Impact emphasizes that inviting someone to church is only the beginning. Members are encouraged to disciple those they bring—offering rides, inviting them to small groups, and walking with them through life. This relational approach ensures that evangelism naturally flows into discipleship. To learn more about Impact Church and Pastor Zenzo’s resources, visit impactpeople.org. His book Impact One: The Epic Prayer That Transforms Friends and Family is available on Amazon and other online retailers. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: SermonDone Hey friends, Sunday is coming… is your Sermon Done?Pastor, you don’t need more pressure—you need support. That’s why you need to check out SermonDone—the premium AI assistant built exclusivelyfor pastors. SermonDone helps you handle the heavy lifting: deep sermon research, series planning, and even a theologically aligned first draft—in your voice—because it actually trains on up to 15 of your past sermons. But it doesn’t stop there. With just a click, you can instantly turn your message into small group guides, discussion questions, and even kids curriculum. It’s like adding a research assistant, a writing partner, and a discipleship team—all in one. Try it free for 5 days. Head over to www.SermonDone.com and use promo code Rich20 for 20% off today! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you’ve decided to tune in. Really looking forward to today’s conversation, an opportunity to dive in on a conversation that really all of our churches should be wrestling with.Rich Birch — Honored, privileged to have Zenzo Matoga with us. He is the senior pastor at a church called Impact Church that has, if I’m counting correctly, two locations in Massachusetts. They’re one of the fastest growing churches in the country. He’s also a seasoned worship leader. And I think this is a first for our podcast, a Dove Award nominated songwriter and author. So excited to have you on this the show today, Zenzo. Thank you for being here.Zenzo Matoga — Thank you so much for having me, Rich. It’s such an honor to be here with you.Rich Birch — This is wonderful. Impact has experienced you know incredible growth in these last number of years. And I’d love for you to kind of tell us a little bit about the church, bring us up on the journey and and tell us what God’s doing in your church these days.Zenzo Matoga — Yes, so this next month here in September we’re going to be celebrating 10 years. So it’s been 10 years of ministry and we are in Boston, Massachusetts of all the places in the world.Rich Birch — Love it.Zenzo Matoga — It’s been named the fifth most unchurched city in all of America. And so um you know people told me Boston is a very dry place and I thought to myself last time I checked dry places catch on fire faster than any other place it’s so so that… Rich Birch — Oh, I like that. I like that. Nothing like a a cemetery for if you want a resurrection, right? Same thing. Zenzo Matoga — There you go. There you go. That got us excited, you know, but it’s been an honor you know to do ministry here, you know, 10 years of incredible ministry. I’m originally from Malawi, AfricaRich Birch — Oh, nice. Okay.Zenzo Matoga — Very, very small country. So it’s humbling to be in this nation and preaching the gospel. Yes, I’m a worship leader first. So I started leading worship in what we call the African revivals that were led by a man called Reinhard Bonnke, who literally saw 79 million salvations in those crusades. And so I just adopted this passion for evangelism, this this passion for evangelism. Rich Birch — Love it. Zenzo Matoga — Except back then it used to happen through crusades, big crusades. And when I moved to America the Lord said teach the Americans how to win their unchurched loved ones. Rich Birch — Love it. Zenzo Matoga — That’s gonna be the key to evangelism. So in a nutshell, we’ve built Impact Church on that, you know, the Great Commission. That’s why we named the church Impact Church. It says, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit.Zenzo Matoga — And so, yeah, make disciples. Who make disciples? Who make disciples? Who make disciples? And that’s church growth. That’s revival. It was never meant to be rocket science, if you’re making disciples, not converts.Rich Birch — That’s so good. Well, I’m looking forward to digging in and learning from you today and and the good just the good stories, the good things that are happening at Impact.Rich Birch — You know, many pastors want a vibrant evangelism and discipleship culture at their church, but it really is can be really challenging for many churches to create that. Why do you think that is? What are some of the obstacles that you’ve seen other churches face, you know, why why do you think this is? It’s like so core to who we’re supposed to be, but why is it why is it so tough so so so many times?Zenzo Matoga — Yeah. Well, number one, I believe that the very art of making disciples was never meant to be too easy. There are challenges there, but there are beautiful challenges. So if you’re facing challenges, hey, welcome to the club. You’re heading in the right direction. Don’t be discouraged.Rich Birch — Yes.Zenzo Matoga — I also feel that many pastors and churches and leaders, they they copy from other churches, you know. And it’s okay to learn from others, right? But when you’re copying something and you don’t receive it by revelation, because listen, to Moses, he said, use a stick. To Joshua, he said, march around the city. The power was not in walking around and the power was definitely not in the stick. The power was in the instruction, you know.Rich Birch — Right.Zenzo Matoga — And so I think it’s good to to pray, study your city. There’s a key that unlocks every city. You got to find that key. Whoever finds that key will unlock that city.Zenzo Matoga — And so, and I think, ah and you can learn what others are doing, right? But sometimes people copy things, but then they just, they don’t follow through, or they start and they stop and they try something else, and then they try something else and then they go to that conference, pick up something else and try. Because most of these strategies, you got to, you got to see them through and you got to be patient. Rich Birch — That’s so good.Zenzo Matoga — You got to be patient for them to produce, you know. It’s like, you know, revival sometimes is like pounding the ground so that you can build a spring or rather you can break ground so that there can be a spring that gushes out. But you can’t just do that. You can’t do that for two days. You can’t do that for one day, you know. And sometimes you encounter rocks and you’ve got to break through that and keep going. And so I feel like sometimes people start and stop, start and stop. There has to be a long-term commitment to the strategy that the Lord gives you. Yeah.Rich Birch — Well, there’s a lot there I’d love to unpack. You talk about ah you know every seat every city has a key that to unlock you know that and and leaders are part of our job is to find that. Unpack that a bit more. Tell me a little bit about that. What has that looked like for you at Impact as you’ve considered? I do think as, ah ah I think there’s an interesting advantage that you have as someone from outside the culture coming in to to see the culture. I actually think that’s a huge strategic advantage that God’s given you. So help us understand that. Unpack that a little bit more.Zenzo Matoga — Yeah, for sure. You know, every city has a key. Whoever has that key and will unlock it, you know.Zenzo Matoga — And so, yeah, I think it’s good to study your city. And also every church has a calling, right? I don’t think I don’t think our churches are supposed to reach everybody. I think you have to know who you’re called to reach, you know. And then find the key that unlocks those type of people. For us here in Boston, We wanted to reach you know young professionals. And amazingly, in doing that, they brought their parents and later on grandparents, you know.Rich Birch — Right.Zenzo Matoga — But we wanted to focus on those. And so one, I wanted to create a welcoming a welcoming atmosphere, welcoming environment. I wanted to create a culture that was authentic because Millennials, Gen Zs, Gen Alphas, you know, you can’t reach them if you’re not authentic.Zenzo Matoga — So from the get, I knew that I was going to use personal stories. It was going to be self-duplicating stories, but with integrity, right? Like the like the young people say, not forcing anything, but just really telling them here’s a story. I started talking about the issues my wife and I had um at the beginning of our marriage. I mean we’ve been married 19 years and always say we’ve had the best 16 years of our lives you know because the first three, first three was very rough. Rich Birch — Okay. Zenzo Matoga — She’s she’s Italian American. I’m African and I quickly found out that the the jungle spirit in me did not agree with the mafia spirit in our you know so we almost started World War III, you know. Rich Birch — Wow. Zenzo Matoga — But we we we were going to tell our stories, we were going to utilize humor, we were going to be honest, and we were going to train the young people to also be authentic. Tell your story. One the best things you can ever do is tell your story, you know.Zenzo Matoga — We overcome by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of our testimony. you know And they did not love their lives to shrink back from death. Sometimes people are afraid to share their story, your powerful testimony. Let people know what God has done. It creates an atmosphere where where there’s a culture of grace where people are not afraid of church people and they think like they’re better than us, you know, or I’ll never be like them.Zenzo Matoga — I’ll never, you know, I’m drinking right now and I’m smoking and I’m doing this. I’ll probably never be like them. Well, a bunch of us used to do that, you know. So if you can tell your story, share your testimony, create an authentic environment.Zenzo Matoga — I don’t know how much to share now, but also, you know, from from the book Impact One, let me just jump in that. I wanted to teach our church members how to reach their unchurched loved ones. To me, the key to Boston was if I can teach a typical churchgoer how to reach your unchurched loved ones, if I can teach you to just impact one, right?Zenzo Matoga — In the next three months, if I can just teach you to impact one person, bring them into the house of God, and then, you know, some people can impact three, some can maybe do five, but every year, every believer has to be a producing believer, not a barren producer. I mean, not a barren believer. And so yeah, I wrote that book. I wrote that book just for the members of our church. Rich Birch — Right.Zenzo Matoga — It’s a small book, four chapters only. Rich Birch — Right.Zenzo Matoga — Chapter one is ah is is just get the burden for the lost. Ask God to break you with what breaks his heart concerning the lost. Start weeping again for the lost. You know, number two, pray for the one. So right just write three names down of people you want to win for Jesus, right?Rich Birch — I love that.Zenzo Matoga — Those people you’re eating Thanksgiving dinner with, you know, write write a few of those names. The people the the person who’s always next to you in the gym working out, right you know, write their name down.Rich Birch — Right. Yeah.Zenzo Matoga — And then chapter three was simple. Just become a good friend. Friendship evangelism. Just become a good friend. Billy Graham, before he passed away, he said he believes after doing all the crusades that this present day of America, that the best form of evangelism is friendship evangelism.Zenzo Matoga — Sometimes Christians are not good friends. Just learn how to be a good friend.Rich Birch — Sure.Zenzo Matoga — You know and we we taught our church just be a good friend for a season with no strings attached. Just really show interest in those people. Zenzo Matoga — And then number four is seal the deal. You know, sealing the deal means wait for the right moment. You know, they will ask you, they will ask you, where does your joy come from? You know, why are you not shaking about this? You talk about this church thing all the time. Tell me about that. Rich Birch — Right. Right.Zenzo Matoga — You know, a door open, then you seal the deal, you know. But ride the waves.Rich Birch — Step in.Zenzo Matoga — Ride the waves of the Holy Spirit like surfing. You know. And so let the opportunity be created. So to us, that was I think that was the key you know in a nutshell… Rich Birch — Right. Love it. Zenzo Matoga — …creating a welcoming atmosphere where there was authenticity and a culture of grace and then teaching these young people you know how to win Jesus.Zenzo Matoga — And I think the final thing for me being a worshiper was we wanted to create an atmosphere where there was radical worship, radical worship. I’m in Boston. You know, it’s the mecca of education.Rich Birch — Yes.Zenzo Matoga — We have a quarter a million students. We have the most students than any other city in the world. We have Harvard University, MIT. And I felt a bit insecure, if I can be honest, ah Rich.Zenzo Matoga — I was like, OK, I’m an African kid. I come from the third poorest country in the world. And I got no college degree, you know. Because I went into music route I wanted to go to school for music I couldn’t afford it… Rich Birch — Right. Zenzo Matoga — …and I just dove straight into music and the Lord blessed that, but I felt insecure. And the Lord said hey one of the keys to Boston is the foolishness of worship. I will confound the wisdom of the wise with the foolishness of radical worship and joy. Radical worship and joy, you know. Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zenzo Matoga — And so we worship radically and I found that people are looking you know for for for…Rich Birch — That’s so good.Zenzo Matoga — …a radical version of believers again, You know, people are not looking for ah nice alternative of what they’re already doing. No, they’re looking for something vibrant, something that’s embedded in revival and radical worship… Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. Zenzo Matoga — …and joy, joy, joy, joy. Yeah.Rich Birch — I love that. I’d love to, we’re I’m going to put a a bookmark in that. I want to come back to that in a minute, but yeah I want to loop back on something you said earlier. You know, my sense is that one of the things you’ve been able to do at Impact is really see evangelism as a culture. It’s not a, it’s not a program. It’s not like a, hey, here’s a, you know, do this thing. It’s like a part of who we are. Talk us through how that um works itself out at Impact. What how are you ensuring that reaching out to unchurched folks in Boston, Bostonians, is a culture of impact rather than just a program? What’s that look like?Zenzo Matoga — Yeah, Rich, I believe that’s the that’s the key, is that sometimes we go on this journey of making evangelism or discipleship these systems and classes. And and nothing wrong with that to supplement and complement what you have. But I believe that evangelism and discipleship has to be embedded in the culture of the church. Rich Birch — Yep.Zenzo Matoga — On our worst Sunday, we’re evangelistic and we’re making disciples. And so what what does that mean? For us, it’s simple. You know, yet again, for me, it kind of goes back to that book because I wrote that book to release that evangelism culture you know for our church.Zenzo Matoga — I think, one, it begins a prayer. Are we praying for the lost? Are we earnestly praying for lost? But before we pray for the lost, are we broken with what breaks the heart of God concerning our city, the burden to see them? You know, are we do we want them saved just because we want our churches to grow, or do we sincerely want them to know God and not go to hell, right? That simple.Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, yeah.Zenzo Matoga — And so I think it starts there. And then after that, you know, we’ve started making it a culture. So every single Sunday, we pray this prayer, God, please give me one person to impact with your love and invite church.Rich Birch — So good.Zenzo Matoga — We pray that in our services every single Sunday. And then after that, Rich, we we show stories of people who have been impacted.Rich Birch — That’s good.Zenzo Matoga — Because yet again, testimonies are so powerful. Last Sunday, we showed the story of Teddy. You know, Teddy was coming to Impact Church because a family friend invited him to church. Remember the prayer, God, please give me one person to impact with your love and invite church. So somebody prayed that prayer, and then invited Teddy to church. That was, he was their impact one prayer. And there are times when we pray that prayer, remember, we write three names down, practical. We write three names down. So somebody had Teddy as one of their…Rich Birch — Right. Yes.Zenzo Matoga — …and then invited him to church. He started coming to church, you know, kind of still drinking and doing other things, you know, and then kind of started coming to church and started dating this young lady.Zenzo Matoga — And, you know, she got pregnant out of wedlock. But we continued to disciple them because it has to transition from evangelism to discipleship. We started reaching out to them one-on-one and some of our pastors and group leaders just discipling them. Long story short, those two are married now. They’ve got a child. And Teddy now leads our men’s groups, man.Rich Birch — So good.Zenzo Matoga — This young man is shepherding and caring for young men in our church, just men in general. And those groups have they’ve multiplied over and over and over and over, you know. Rich Birch — Right. Zenzo Matoga — And this summer we’re believing God for another 20 or so just, you know and he’s he’s the coach over that. So so yet again after the prayer you write the names down, we show the story so that people see it in real time of a life that has been changed, you know. And then after that in service we have this 60 seconds, social seconds, where we tell people to go greet one another. And they ask each other the question, who did you impact this week? You know, so you you’ve prayed the impact one prayer and you’ve seen the impact story.Rich Birch — Right.Zenzo Matoga — We call them stories of impact. You’ve seen an impact story. And then you have the chance to walk around, greet somebody and ask them, and hold them accountable. Who did you impact this week? Rich Birch — That’s cool. Zenzo Matoga — If they didn’t impact anybody, hey, come back next Sunday with the story of who you impacted, you know?Rich Birch — Right. I love that.Zenzo Matoga — And then that’s what’s happening in the service, right? So that that’s the evangelistic portions in the service, you know? And then I take ah take once a year and and in our series, and I do a whole series on how to win the lost.Rich Birch — Oh, that’s great.Zenzo Matoga — But then also in all my messages, there’s going to be a portion somewhere in all my messages where I’m talking about evangelism.Zenzo Matoga — And then like was all this is happening inside the auditorium. Now, outside the auditorium, God gave us something called F15, and I wrote it in the book. So F15 is a code, you know, and it’s funny because when we got F15, I said, yeah, I think we officially code. That’s a joke, by the way.Rich Birch — That’s funny. Zenzo Matoga — But F15 simply stands for the first 15 minutes after church. Rich Birch — Okay, yeah.Zenzo Matoga — Don’t go to your cliques in the lobby.Rich Birch — Okay, yeah.Zenzo Matoga — Don’t run to your cliques. Don’t run to the people you already know. We treat during F15 during the first 15 minutes of service being over we treat our lobbies like a mission field. You sacrifice wanting to run to Jimmy because you’re buddies, you probably know Jimmy’s phone number and you probably can hang out and go to lunch later. But we’re going to sacrifice the first 15 minutes after service to look in… Rich Birch — Yeah. Zenzo Matoga — …our lobbies and parking lot for somebody who looks like they’re new to church, you know. And we’re going to and impact them, you know.Rich Birch — That’s cool.Zenzo Matoga — And how do we impact them? God gave us something as well called C.L.O.N.E., right?Rich Birch — Yeah.Zenzo Matoga — Because the Lord said, go make disciples. So go clone yourself, essentially.Zenzo Matoga — So so C.L.O.N.E., the C stands for chronology. So during the F15, you walk to somebody, ah chronology, and you say, hey, how long have you been coming to Impact Church?Rich Birch — Yeah, I love it.Zenzo Matoga — And they’ll tell you five months, six months. Or today is my first day. And the L is location. Hey where do you live? Where do you live? Rich Birch — Oh, so good. Zenzo Matoga — And the O is occupation, you know – hey so what do you do for a living? And the N stands for number or mode of communication, you know. And I hear these days you don’t ask for phone numbers, so hey stands for DM’s as well – hey what’s your DM? You know. Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah. What’s your Instagram handle? What’s your, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zenzo Matoga — Yes, there you go, there you go. What’s your Instagram handle, how can I find you? And what’s remaining? The E. The E is encouragement. Hey, I’m so glad you came to Impact Church. I can’t wait to see you next Sunday. Do you have a ride? We can come pick you up. You can sit with our crew. We can hang out together.Zenzo Matoga — I’ll see you right here, the same place next Sunday. And so I share with you all the stuff that are happening in the auditorium every single Sunday.Rich Birch — Yes.Zenzo Matoga — By the way, I’m giving you our secret sauce here, man.Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah, it’s good. It’s good. Love it.Zenzo Matoga — We need to give this because we need to win America for Jesus. Rich Birch — Yeah, absolutely.Zenzo Matoga — And then these are things that are happening outside the lobby, you know.Rich Birch — Yeah, I love it. And are you…Zenzo Matoga — And then part of the encouragement…Rich Birch — Where are you talking about F15? Like, are you, how often are you, because I love that. I think practically training our people on, hey, this exactly what you should do at the end of the service. Man, I think that’s transformational. Are you talking about that in that once a year series? Are you regularly kind of encouraging people? Hey, remember after the service today, we’re cloning, get a chance to talk to someone. What’s that look like?Zenzo Matoga — Yes, I’m talking about that to the whole church when I do that that series in the year. But I’m telling Vision Sunday, I drop it again, Vision Sunday. Because I’m talking about our vision of the Impact Church. Our vision is to impact you so you can impact your world. To me, that’s the definition of discipleship.Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s so good.Zenzo Matoga — I’m not just impacting you to become a convert who comes, sit down.Zenzo Matoga — I’m impacting you so you can impact your world. What’s your world? Your world is your business, your family, your workplace, and all those people. So we’re talking about that, yes, from the pulpit.Zenzo Matoga — But in our leadership trainings, right, in our leadership orientations, in our growth tracks, next steps, classes, all that stuff, we’re talking about that. If you’re becoming a member of the church, if you’re getting assimilated into our church, we are putting this burden here, this beautiful, we call it the beautiful burden on you to be able to do that.Rich Birch — Love it.Zenzo Matoga — And not only are we talking about it, yet again, Rich, we’re doing it every Sunday. I’m praying the impact one prayer every Sunday after worship. We’re sharing the impact story. And then people are going to one another and asking, who have you impacted this week? Rich Birch — Love it.Zenzo Matoga — And then I’m doing I’m doing the series and teaching people, get the burden, you know, pray for the one, you know, write the names down. And and friendship evangelism, how do you become a good friend? How do you do that? How, you know, Jesus became a friend to Zacchaeus, you know. And then he waited for the conviction.Zenzo Matoga — You know, it wasn’t Jesus who was like, change your life, do this. He just became a good friend. And the conviction came and then he sealed the deal. You know. So you teach the people how to seal the deal boldly with boldness. Rich Birch — Yeah, so good.Zenzo Matoga — You know, when somebody tells you, I’m struggling with this, don’t don’t don’t you bash, don’t don’t you become bashful. And you seal that deal with boldness. So I release the gift of faith over the people. I pray over them. And I during our impact one prayer, I tell them, hey, I pray and I’m believing God that before, you know, right now we’re in August.Zenzo Matoga — So I’m telling them before the close of this year, I am believing that every member of this church will be responsible for at least one soul coming to the saving knowledge of Jesus. And we release the gift of faith and the burden, youRich Birch — Love it.Zenzo Matoga — Yeah. And then part of the E. Rich Birch — Sorry. Go ahead. Zenzo Matoga — Yeah, I got to say this part of the E in encouragement in the clone, right, is also, hey, you can be a part of our small group. Rich Birch — Love it.Zenzo Matoga — So that E there is the final piece that transition you from evangelism to discipleship. If you invite somebody to church, you are responsible for also discipling them. So you’re responsible to not only bring them into the house of God, but you’re also responsible to invite them to your crew, invite them to your small group, give them a ride and see them through and just walk with them.Zenzo Matoga — You know, and so that’s what creates evangelism and discipleship as a culture versus making announcements on a Sunday morning for people to attend some class.Rich Birch — Yes.Zenzo Matoga — That’s supplementary, man. We have that stuff too, but it’s supplemental. Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeahZenzo Matoga — Yeah.Rich Birch — It’s so good. I love, well, first of all, I want to underline, I think it’s great how practical you’ve made this. You’ve you’ve given really clear next steps. I love that you’re training your people around this. I want to loop back because I said I was going to, and I’m intrigued to hear your thoughts on this around radical worship.Rich Birch — I you know, I love that your background, you obviously are a passionate evangelist and you obviously are a passionate worship leader. And I think there can be a false dichotomy in a lot of churches that like those, that you can’t be a church that’s focused on reaching unchurched people at the same time as being a passionate worship environment. We sometimes see those as opposed to each other.Rich Birch — Unpack that for me. How do those two work? Cause I would agree with you. I think, one of the changes I’ve seen in unchurched people over the time I’ve served is I do think what you’re talking about there is true. I think people are coming to church looking for something different than they were 20, 30 years ago. They and I think worship is a part of that. So unpack that. Talk me through the connection between radical worship and reaching unchurched people. How do those two things work together in your mind or and how are they working themselves out at Impact?Zenzo Matoga — Yeah, and Rich, it’s Acts chapter 16, right? Paul and Silas ended up in the jail cell, and they were in there. What were they doing? Prayer and worship.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Zenzo Matoga — It was so radical the other jailers heard them. It says to me it was loud and it was radical. Because because it’s loud in jail. Rich Birch — Yeah.Zenzo Matoga — But people heard them. People heard them. And it was so radical it caused an earthquake, man.Rich Birch — Love it.Zenzo Matoga — And what happened? Chains broke. It wasn’t just the chains of the two people who were singing. It was the chains of everybody who was exposed to the worship… Rich Birch — Right. Zenzo Matoga — …and the and the radical environment. Zenzo Matoga — And what amazes me is that at the end of that, it says when the jailer saw that all the prisoners had ran away, right, he ran to them and and and they found him almost killing himself. He was almost committing suicide. You know, and they say to him, man, my guy, chill out, man. We’re good. You know, ah and then he says to him, what should I do? What should I do, you know, to be saved? You know, paraphrasing.Zenzo Matoga — There was, so two things happened because of radical worship. Chains broke and there was a conviction. There was a conviction for someone who was lost, you know. And I just believe that’s what happens, you know. And I may we be set free from gimmicks because the Jesus we serve is powerful enough to get the job done. If we can just bring him down. He says, if I be lifted up, he says, I will draw men to myself.Zenzo Matoga — And so don’t believe me. Believe the scripture. If we lift him up and if we praise him, I believe there’s a shaking. There’s a spiritual earthquake that comes to us to our regions and our cities. That’s that’s what people are looking for. I mean look at Boston, yet again the fifth most unchurched city. There are spirits of intellectualism here. There’s spirits of humanism here. Spirits of materialism and secularism, every ism you can ever think about, you know. Things are birthed here and then they go to, I always say that the truth is things are birthed in Boston, you know, and then they’re marketed, they’re marketed in in New York markets them, you know, and then California, you know, makes a movie out of them. But they’re really birthed here.Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah. No, it’s true. Yeah, that’s very true.Zenzo Matoga — And those those those are those are spirits, man, that are holding our cities. And so we you’ve got to pray and the worship, you know, it’s like when Saul would start to have these these tormenting spirits and and David would come and start playing and worship, and these things would be removed. And I think there are things in our cities that need to be removed and when that happens, you know bible says what is this is this, help me out, is this 1 Corinthians 4:4 or 2 Corinthians 4:4 somewhere say it says the god of the god of this age, you know, has has blinded people’s eyes. You know that blindness spiritual blindness has to be removed. And it’s radical worship, it’s a radical worship… Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good Zenzo Matoga — It’s childlike joy. Rich Birch — Right. Zenzo Matoga — You know, the bible says the joy of Lord is my strength. The bible will also says you know for the spirit of heaviness I’ll give you it says the oil of joy every time you see oil that represents an anointing… Rich Birch — Yep. Zenzo Matoga — …a yoke breaking power. And so when you lose your joy, you don’t just lose joy. You lose strength and you lose power. You lose this anointing. And so there’s something about this radical joy. You know, when you go to Fenway Park here in Boston, my goodness, there’s joy there.Rich Birch — Yes, yes.Zenzo Matoga — When you go to ah the Boston Celtics, man, come on. We were champions before Oklahoma OKC took us off, you know. We got the New England Patriots. We had the days of ah Brady here.Rich Birch — Yes.Zenzo Matoga — You know, it’s you go there and it’s a religion. It’s worship. It’s joy.Rich Birch — Right. Yeah.Zenzo Matoga — It’s a radical joy. they They don’t bash away from being radical. Man, they take their shirts off. They cuss up a storm. They it’s radical. And the church of Jesus Christ is not going to be outdone by the world… Rich Birch — Right. Yeah, yeah, that’s good. Zenzo Matoga — …because we invented this joy, man. Rich Birch — That’s so good. Zenzo Matoga — We invented this radical behavior, you know, and it can be done well. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good.Zenzo Matoga — So don’t hold back. Don’t hold back.Rich Birch — I love that. That’s so good. I love I love your thinking and your leadership there. That’s that’s fantastic. Now, I want to point people towards your book. It’s again, it’s “Impact One, The Epic Prayer That Transforms Friends friends and Family”.Rich Birch — I do think this could be a helpful resource for people. I think it’d be kind of thing that church leaders could check out and would help them frame this conversation. Where do where do where can people pick up a copy of that if they want to grab a copy or copies of that? Where do we want to send them to to do that?Zenzo Matoga — Yeah, copies on Amazon, everywhere online.Rich Birch — Yep.Zenzo Matoga — Right now it’s just online.Rich Birch — Yep.Zenzo Matoga — Yet again, I wrote this church just to teach our church, so it’s out there.Rich Birch — Yep. That’s wonderful. Yeah. Love it.Zenzo Matoga — But three times, Rich, churches have reached out to us, and we literally provided books to the whole congregation. And I partnered with the pastor to do to do a series around that and just equip the churches on how to, you know, how to win the loss. And man, I’m telling you, in Rhode Island, Massachusetts, in Providence, Rhode Island, sorry, not Massachusetts, Providence, Rhode Island, man, we helped a church that was averaging about 130 people.Zenzo Matoga — And just this last Easter, man, they saw over a thousand, you know. Rich Birch — That’s great. Zenzo Matoga — And and every single Sunday, they’re now averaging about 300. And we, it was a joy… Rich Birch — So good. Zenzo Matoga — …to to go through this book, yeah.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. Well, Zenzo, this has been an incredible conversation, super encouraging today. I’m just so thankful for what you’re doing at Impact and the the impact you’re having in a part of the country, like you said, that is is considered spiritually dry. I love that. I love what, you know, I just want to honor you for, you know, for that. If people want to track with you or with the church, where do we want to send them online just as we wrap up today’s episode?Zenzo Matoga — Yes, I love the church. I love the church so much. If a pastor wants to reach out, one of my greatest joys is to just stand with other pastors. You know we give God all the glory because what’s happening here, only God could have done that. But many others have helped us along the way, so would gladly do that. And my email address is simple, pastorzenzo at impactpeople.org. Rich Birch — Love it. Easy.Zenzo Matoga — Pastorzenzo at impactpeople.org. And our website is the same, very easy, impactpeople.org. That’s it.Rich Birch — Love it. Well, thanks so much, Zenzo. I appreciate you being here today, sir. Thank you for for serving us and for what you’re doing at Impact.Zenzo Matoga — Man, to God be of the glory. Thank you so much for what you’re doing. And I’m humbled and honored to to do this with you. Thanks again, Rich.Rich Birch — Thank you so much.

In a captivating discussion, Robert Watson, Teaching Pastor at Sun Valley Community Church, shares his passion for helping new believers embrace uncomplicated faith. He discusses how churches can remove barriers for newcomers by simplifying biblical concepts and fostering an inclusive atmosphere. Robert highlights the importance of mentorship and relationships in spiritual growth and reframes early discipleship as an inviting journey. With practical insights, he encourages churches to create clear next steps for those stepping into faith.

Diana Rush, Senior Director of Build Community at Eastside Christian Church, and Ryan Hartwig, co-author of Teams That Thrive, delve into the art of effective church leadership. They discuss the power of shared leadership and collaboration, noting that many teams struggle with clarity about their roles. Rush emphasizes the significance of solid onboarding practices to integrate new staff into church culture. The conversation also touches on mid-level management dynamics, stressing the need for mutual trust and open communication to cultivate thriving teams.

Welcome back to the unSeminary podcast. Today we’re joined by Steece Hayes, a bi-vocational pastor and account manager at Higher Ground Managed IT, part of the ACS Technologies family. Is your ministry struggling with unreliable tech, security risks, or outdated systems—and you’re not even sure where to begin fixing it? Tune in as Steece brings practical insights to help churches focus on ministry—not troubleshooting printers or battling cyber threats. Understanding the scope of IT. // IT infrastructure includes tangible devices like computers, servers, printers, routers, phones, and Wi-Fi networks. It doesn’t cover production gear like sound, video, or media systems—though those systems rely on strong IT infrastructure. Higher Ground Managed IT helps churches get their networks and devices talking to each other efficiently, reliably, and securely. Top IT pain points in churches. // Many churches operate with outdated or underpowered equipment—especially phones and computers. Phone systems are commonly antiquated, difficult to manage, and lack proper support. Churches also often rely on cheap, consumer-grade devices not designed for larger environments, which creates more issues as they grow. C.A.R.E. Framework. // To address these challenges, Higher Ground uses a four-step approach: Clarify, Architect, Reinforce, and Evolve. The process begins with an assessment to clarify a church’s current technology infrastructure, identifying equipment, systems, and security risks. Next, the Architect phase helps design a tailored IT solution that meets the church’s size, budget, and future goals—this can include options for full-service management or co-management with existing staff or volunteers. The Reinforce phase implements the recommended systems and ensures everything is operational and secure. Finally, the Evolve phase focuses on strategic planning for future upgrades, budgeting, and reducing long-term vulnerabilities. This gradual improvement ensures churches can move from a “band-aid” approach to a sustainable, well-managed IT environment. When to ask for help. // If your church has five or more computers and your staff or volunteers struggle to manage IT, it’s time to call Higher Ground. Often, tech responsibilities fall to youth or children’s pastors simply because they’re “young” or know how to use equipment. Higher Ground comes alongside those overwhelmed staff or volunteers to lighten the load and offer scalable support. Cybersecurity is a very real problem. // Phishing—emails or texts designed to trick users into handing over sensitive info—is the #1 threat churches face. Higher Ground proactively trains church teams using simulated phishing attacks and real-time coaching. Other key vulnerabilities include unpatched servers, open Wi-Fi networks, and the absence of proper firewalls. The risk of network intrusion. // Churches are increasingly targeted by cybercriminals due to lax security practices. Some cases have involved hackers sabotaging worship services by penetrating a church’s network. Steece emphasizes the importance of treating your inbox as “hostile territory” and taking preventive steps before tragedy strikes. Better than hiring full time IT staff. // For growing churches, partnering with Higher Ground is often far more cost-effective than hiring an in-house IT manager. The support allows churches to redirect funds toward ministry roles like youth pastors—without sacrificing operational excellence. Learn more about Higher Ground IT and schedule a free call with Steece to walk through your concerns at www.highergroundit.com. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Portable Church Your church is doing really well right now, and your leadership team is looking for solutions to keep momentum going! It could be time to start a new location. Maybe you have hesitated in the past few years, but you know it’s time to step out in faith again and launch that next location. Portable Church has assembled a bundle of resources to help you leverage your growing momentum into a new location by sending a part of your congregation back to their neighborhood on Mission. This bundle of resources will give you a step-by-step plan to launch that new or next location, and a 5 minute readiness tool that will help you know your church is ready to do it! Click here to watch the free webinar “Launch a New Location in 150 Days or Less” and grab the bundle of resources for your church! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. You know, our tagline here at unSeminary is stuff you wish they taught in seminary. And today’s podcast, I can guarantee you is one of those things that you wish they taught you in seminary because they don’t teach this stuff in seminary.Rich Birch — And so today we brought an expert on, you’re gonna wanna lean in because I know this is an area that you have had frustration and could actually be holding your ministry back and it shouldn’t. And there’s people out there that want to help you. Rich Birch — Super excited to have Steece Hayes with us. He’s a bi-vocational pastor, is also an account manager at an organization called Higher Ground Managed IT. They’re a part of the ACS Technologies family and they founded with a really simple mission they want to help churches focus on ministry and not troubleshooting or fixing technology. He has a doctoral degree in church revitalization and wants to help churches or struggling churches; this really is a passion of his. Steece, welcome to the showSteece Hayes — Thanks, man. Glad to be here.Rich Birch — Honored that you have taken some time. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background? You sit in it you know an interesting vantage point, being both a bi-vocational pastor and working with in kind of helping IT solutions in churches. Tell us a little bit of your journey. How did you end up here? Talk us through all of that.Steece Hayes — Well, it’s kind of an interesting story. It’s a little bit part of my testimony. Actually, I was not really living as a Christian whenever I first started working at ACS Technologies. Uh, uh, shortly thereafter I got married to my wife, who had been at ACS for several years prior to me. Rich Birch — Oh nice.Steece Hayes — And she, and I’m sure there’s a lot of other guys out there who have the same story. She grabbed me by the nap of the neck and dragged me into church and said, you’re going to sit here and listen. And and, you know, so I did. And you know being at ACS, surrounded by other Christian brothers and sisters and working with churches, and then, of course, the influence of my wife and church, I really started feeling the call to ministry. And I was encouraged by my pastor at the time and just started down that road of learning, being engulfed in what it means to be a follower of Christ. And then also being able to, in a professional sense, work with churches every day and helping them with their ministries.Steece Hayes — And originally I was working with our our software and the the software side of things. And so, you know, several, about 10 years ago or so, did that. Just went to seminary, branched out, started pastoring small churches and have just continued that to this day. So I have a passion for the smaller church.Steece Hayes — Although we work with a lot of very large churches. You know, the small church is the majority. And so I love helping them, especially with IT, because they really struggle in that that regard. Even the bigger ones struggle with it as well. So ACS and and the church and me being a pastor are all kind of intertwined into one big story.Rich Birch — Love it. So good. Well, let’s define terms ah even before we begin. Because I know even IT, information technology, that can be like a buzzword that people aren’t really sure, like, what does that actually mean? Like when you say IT, what does that cover? What is that kind of the spectrum ah you know for a church leader that might be listening in?Steece Hayes — Yeah, really, IT is going to be the network infrastructure, meaning the actual devices, the things, right? The computers, the servers, if you have any switches, which you may or may not even know what that is. But, you know, all the actual devices, the wireless in the building, the things that are tangible that you can touch.Rich Birch — The printers! Why can’t we get the printer to print?Steece Hayes — Yes.Steece Hayes — Yeah. And why my computer talked to that printer yesterday and it doesn’t talk to it today.Rich Birch — Yeah.Steece Hayes — Why?Rich Birch — Yeah. Yes.Steece Hayes — Yeah.Rich Birch — They’ll never fix that. They’ll never fix that problem. That’s like a, you know, that my son and I were joking about that. My son just started kind of at his first full-time big person job. And we were joking about that. Like, listen, listen, I’m a few years older. It’s never, going back to dot matrix this has been a problem. Rich Birch — So, sorry, I’m already explaining some of my pain to you as an IT professional. So it’s all the devices. It’s the things. It’s the network. It’s the switches, the laptops, the desktops, all of that. That’s, when when we say IT, that’s that’s the kind of scope of what we’re talking about?Steece Hayes — Yeah, yeah, it’s keeping all that stuff intertwined, working together, talking with each other, efficient, effective, those sort of things. Now, I will say that what it it does not include is going to be production, media, sound, video, all that. That that’s while they’re very related and the media side, the production side of a church, depends very heavily on the IT infrastructure, we’re not sound engineers and mics and and video and that sort of thing.Rich Birch — Right. That’s good.Steece Hayes — So that’s a little more specialized. Now we’ve worked with those folks quite a bit in churches. But we talk IT, we’re not getting to that point.Rich Birch — Okay. That’s good. Okay. That makes sense. So most churches obviously don’t have a full-time person who thinks about these things. This just isn’t, this is not, you know, and in fact it, it’s, you know, it may maybe be a rare exception of churches that have someone who they can call up to help with this kind of thing. What are some of the common problems, tech problems that you see churches struggling with? Maybe what are some of the pain points that bring them to even reach out to you guys? What’s that look like?Steece Hayes — Yeah, there’s several. And actually one we didn’t mention a second ago, but phone systems, we we help a lot of churches with phones.Rich Birch — Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, of course.Steece Hayes — Phones are a big one because churches are outdated. I mean, they’re they’re just antiquated with their phone system because most of us are in the mind that we go to the Bell, right? We go to Southern Bell or AT&T or one of the the legacy phone companies. Or nowadays, even the cable company will go to them for their phone system.Rich Birch — Right.Steece Hayes — Generally speaking, they’re not great. Customer support is terrible.Rich Birch — Right.Steece Hayes — The phones are outdated. They don’t work. We don’t know how to change the voicemail. You know, how do I transfer calls?Rich Birch — Okay.Steece Hayes — All these sort of things. So phones are a big thing right now. We’re seeing a huge shift in churches getting away from using personal phones, personal cell phones and stuff like that, and start to incorporate that into a more of a corporate idea or a church phone system. Rich Birch — Okay. Steece Hayes — So that now when you call the pastor, instead of calling his personal number, you’re calling him on the church’s number and it just rings directly to him. And he answers it on his cell phone, even if he’s you know… Rich Birch — Right. Steece Hayes — …making a visit at the hospital or whatever. But it’s kind of bringing all of this. So so phone is a big area that we see a lot of churches really struggling with. Another one, which is sort of related, is outdated equipment. You know, when was the last time they updated their computers in the office or, you know, their switches or just the wireless, the Wi-Fi in the building? I mean, you know, we put that thing in 10 years ago and it’s sort of working, but we’ve been band-aiding it the whole time. Rich Birch — Right. Yeah, that’s good.Steece Hayes — So, you know, that’s another one. Underpowered equipment, they they’ve grown, but they never updated their IT. They never updated their network.Rich Birch — That’s so good.Steece Hayes — And then I think probably the biggest one is security. They’re just not secure. Rich Birch — Oh, wow. Steece Hayes — Churches are very insecure when it comes to cybersecurity. And we’re seeing a pretty huge trend of cyber criminals attacking churches because they see them as low hanging fruit, because honestly, they are.Rich Birch — Yeah.Steece Hayes — So I would say those are the big ones.Rich Birch — Yeah, let’s we’re gonna put a pin in that. I do wanna come back and ask you specifically on the security question, because that’s an area wanna highlight a little bit. In fact, that might be like a whole other conversation, but well, I wanna highlight that. We’ll come back to that.Rich Birch — But talk to us about, um just because we’re getting a sense of the scope here, there there’s also this like um underpowered, overpowered thing where I don’t know whether this has been your experience, but my experience has been, you know, so all the churches I’ve worked for have been fairly large churches, like statistically a thousand plus, thousand to 5,000. There’s not a lot of those out there, but even in a church like that, it’s, it seems like the squeaky wheels get the get get the best computers. Yeah.Rich Birch — Like, it’s like you have some people have these like killer systems that feel like we could send someone to Mars with them. And then somebody who might actually, maybe they’re a graphic designer or they might actually need like a really a computer that does a lot, but they’re just like friendly. And so they don’t get the most powerful computer. They’re maybe are underpowered. Do you see that where there’s like an imbalance of like tool to meet task? Is that an issue that you bump into?Steece Hayes — Yeah, that and generally speaking, with in your scenario, it’s going to be the media guys, right? Rich Birch — Right. They’ve got the $5,000 supercomputer that they’re using to run production… Rich Birch — Right. Steece Hayes — …and and the soundboard and they’re they’re doing all these things. Rich Birch — Yep.Steece Hayes — They’ve got all this equipment that’s really, really expensive. And yet the, you know, the ministry assistant or the secretary is using a Windows 7 computer that’s 35 years old. you know So we we do see that quite often. We that that’s a thing. Rich Birch — Yeah.Steece Hayes — What more specifically of what I’m referring to about underpower and overpower is things like wifi. You know, people don’t understand. And what most people, when they think of computers and technology, they think more power is better. Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.Steece Hayes — You know, let’s get more. And actually that can be counterintuitive. We’ve we’ve been in several churches where they had wifi in the building, but all their antennas or the, what we call access points are set to 11, right? They’re, they’re, they’re at max level.Steece Hayes — And what happens is, is that the signals are bouncing off of each other and the signals terrible in the building because everything’s turned up to the max. Or the other way is we’ve had churches that, you know, they they have 1,000, 1,500, 2,000 people, and they’re using equipment that they bought from Best Buy. Rich Birch — Yeah.Steece Hayes — And it’s like, that’s just not, that’s intended for your house. Rich Birch — Yes. Yes.Steece Hayes — That’s not great for this environment. Rich Birch — Right.Steece Hayes — And Wi-Fi is just an easy one to pick on, but that’s kind of an idea of…Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Steece Hayes — …you know, churches will go down to Best Buy or order something off Amazon all the time that will, you know, kind of scratch the itch they have…Rich Birch — Right.Steece Hayes — …but it’s not really designed for what we would call an enterprise application.Rich Birch — Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Totally makes sense. Okay. So yeah I know that you guys have something called the care framework for churches. Help us kind of unpack that a little bit. Talk us through what does that look like and how does it help us be effective on this front to think through how we manage our IT well? Because frankly, to be honest, this is one of those areas where I see churches stumble. Rich Birch — Like it’s like, this is, man, if like, it would be a sin for our computers to hold us back. Like we just, we should fix this. There’s people out there that can actually solve these problems. So how do you help them? What’s that look like? Talk us through that framework.Steece Hayes — Yeah, and kind of with that idea and what you had said earlier, you know IT generally, in a lot of churches, is a very, very bottom of the barrel budget item. Most churches don’t spend a lot of money on them. Most churches don’t even have an IT budget. And if they do, it’s very underpowered, to use that same phrase. So what we do is is we have care, and that simply means clarify, architect, reinforce, and evolve.Steece Hayes — So clarify would be our first engagement with a church, would be to understand what they have. You know, what devices do you have? What computers do you have? Are they up to date? Are they not? What are your security issues? Are you secure? Are you not secure? Kind of talk through educating them – basically getting a good understanding of what their IT system and situation currently is. So that would be the clarify side of it.Steece Hayes — Then we get into architect. That would be the A. And so architect would be starting to design and build out what should your IT look like for the church. And so that may be, do you need servers or do you not need servers? That’s a big conversation a lot of churches are having today. How do we want to work with you? Do we want to manage the entire thing for you and you are hands off? Many of our churches choose that because they don’t have anybody that knows how to do it anyway. So they allow us just to handle it all. Steece Hayes — Some of the larger churches are like, hey, we will co-manage with you. So in other words, they are still involved. They’re doing a lot of work, but we are are there sort of as an umbrella to help them, to guide them, to do a lot of the minutia that they don’t have time for. But it’s also sort of putting everything in place, making sure the reporting is there, making sure all the devices are hooked up, everything’s working, everybody’s there. So we build that architect for them and then show that to them.Steece Hayes — And then once they decide that we’re we’re a good fit for them, we implement it. So we put all those in place, all the workflows, the automations, making sure that all the tools are in place, helping them with any kind of remote workforce stuff that they may do, because a lot of people work remotely nowadays.Steece Hayes — But basically getting all that set up and running. And then they’re in good they’re in a good shape. And then the last would be evolve. And so evolve would be, okay, we’re we’re managing it. Everything’s working. Life is happy. Everything’s going well. Now let’s start looking at the next step. So back to those devices and that equipment, you know, how many of your computers are out of date? How many of your switches are 10 years old? All right. We decided in the whole process that you probably didn’t need that server after all. Remember servers are $6000-$10,000 to replace. Oftentimes, and in today’s cloud world they’re just not needed a whole lot. Rich Birch — Right. Steece Hayes — So maybe know after we’ve gotten everything set up and running, now we look at, okay, let’s start simplifying some of these things. Let’s put in a budget and a plan for replacing a few switches over the next year or two years. Let’s get you out of that server um you’ve got a handful of computers that are just out of date. What’s our plan for for doing that. So all of that is working with the church on budgeting. Churches don’t have unlimited funds, as we all know. How can we do this in steps? We triage it, what’s the most important. And over the next you know couple of years, we will evolve them from being a band-aid shop to really state-of-the-art, but inside of their budget.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s great.Steece Hayes — So that’ that’s sort of the evolve.Rich Birch — Yeah.Steece Hayes — So clarify, architect, reinforce, evolve. And there’s a lot of little small steps in all of that.Rich Birch — Sure. Of course. Steece Hayes — But it’s trying to get them from where they are today to where they really need to be.Rich Birch — Yep.Steece Hayes — And we work with large and small churches. So that varies a little bit depending on their size and scope.Rich Birch — Yeah. What’s the kind of, what’s the sweet spot? Obviously, like, you know, you’ll work with, with anybody obviously, but what is the kind of sweet spot of a church that you would say, Hey, here’s a church where you probably should bring us in. I’m assuming if it’s like, even if you have just two staff, cause already you’re like, you’ve got some sort of network, you’re printing some stuff. You’ve got a couple of computers. You got to get them to talk well together, but what would that look like? What does it give us a sense of the size question?Steece Hayes — It varies a little bit, but I would say once a church, well, first of all, if a church finds themselves needing IT help, they they are struggling with it. Maybe they have some volunteers that are kind of helping with it. Volunteers are wonderful. We love volunteers, even corporate. I mean, we just, we love that the church has those volunteers and we never want to take the volunteer out of the equation because that may be their giftedness, right? That may be their way of serving the kingdom. So we don’t want to take them out. Steece Hayes — But oftentimes volunteers are limited in their time and their scope and what they can… And also volunteers tend to lot of times be limited in their understanding. They don’t know all of this.Rich Birch — Right. Yeah. They’re not thinking about it all day long. Yeah.Steece Hayes — They’re not. And so really, once you get up, I would say probably five computers. Rich Birch — Yep. Okay. Steece Hayes — And you’re you’re working with a staff that is not knowledgeable, the staff is busy… Rich Birch — Yep. Steece Hayes — …and you you see your IT starting to kind of go backwards a little bit, we’re having problems. And we’re having to call the local IT shop down the street to come in and fix things. Generally speaking, that’s when we would like to have that engagement. So that five, maybe on the small end to 10, although we’ve got some clients that have two computers.Rich Birch — Right, right.Steece Hayes — But that 5 to 10 computer size, and everything is being run by by volunteers or staff that… and here’s what we’ll see a lot of times in churches is the youth pastor is usually the one that’s assigned to it because he’s the young guy. Rich Birch — There’s some stereotypes that just are true.Steece Hayes — Yeah [inaudible] it’s either the the youth or the children’s guy or or lady… Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah, yeah. Steece Hayes — …and they’ll tap them because hey you’re in your 30s, you know what this you know this technology stuff is. Rich Birch — Yes. You seem to know how to use your cell phone. You can fix this. Yeah. Steece Hayes — Sure, you know how to do all this stuff. And so they’re over their head and this isn’t their job. Rich Birch — Yeah. Right. Steece Hayes — And so that’s where we come in and we kind of take that burden off of them. Rich Birch — Yeah.Steece Hayes — And for the volunteers, we still use them quite often. You know, we’ll we’ll help. They’ll do some stuff around the church. They’re still involved in the process. But, you know, we’re taking all the heavy lifting and we’re doing all the minutiae and we’re there to to back them up and support them.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. Well, and I can imagine if I, and this may not be the kind of thing you’re thinking about, but if you’re thinking, you know, in the next couple of years, I can imagine us hiring a few more people, that this would be like something you want to get done on the front end. Rich Birch — It’s like, Hey, I’m envisioning a season of hiring. Hey, we should bring somebody in now and kind of get this set up right. Get it kind of clearly aligned before. So that by the time those staff land, man, things are are set up and and well. Rich Birch — I want to go back to the cybersecurity question. This is ah is a real issue, obviously. I don’t want to be like fear mongering to people, but I do also want to be really clear. What are some real risks that that we that frankly some leaders might not be aware of and that really we should be taking some steps towards? I know a friend of mine, they had their organization had a security breach that was like tragic, like it’s very bad for the organization. And so I don’t want people to live through that. So help help us understand what are some of those risks. Without a fear mongering kind of thing, what are some real things we should be thinking about on this front?Steece Hayes — Yeah, cybersecurity is a hard conversation to have with now without coming out sounding fear-mongering… Rich Birch — Yes. Yes. Crazy. Yeah. Steece Hayes — …because it’s a it’s a very real problem and it’s a very real threat. So ah the the number one threat out there today is phishing. Rich Birch — Yep. Steece Hayes — So for for those of your audience that may not be familiar with phishing, although I think most people are today, it’s those emails. And and we even have smishing, which would be SMS, same idea. And it’s some bad actor out there, a bad guy has sent you an email with the idea that they want you to click on something or interact with it in some way. Right? Steece Hayes — And when you do interact with it, they are stealing information, whether it’s credentials or something they’re getting from you that they can then turn around and penetrate your network, penetrate your system, do something, do some bad act with it. And so it usually comes through an email or through an SMS or something like that. Steece Hayes — That’s number one. That is hitting everybody across the board. So one of the things that we do is that we engage the church with phishing. So we phish them. We have on staff what I call white hat hackers. I mean, these are really scary guys who are very good at that. Rich Birch — Sure.Steece Hayes — And but but they’re good guys, right? And they’re they’re serving the church. And they will use what’s called social engineering means they’ll go to your website. They’ll look around, they’ll see some events and things like this. And they will then send an email to the church saying, Hey, we see you’ve got this event coming up next week. Click here to enter in a, get an offering or not an offering, but a… Rich Birch — Right. Steece Hayes — …a raffle or something we’re going to have at the event you can enter here. And so they’ll click on that button because it sounds innocent.Rich Birch — Right.Steece Hayes — And the bad guy, if it were truly a bad guy, has them. So we’ll do that. And then we follow that up with training. And, hey, here’s what you look for. Here’s how to recognize it. Here’s how to avoid it. Rich Birch — That’s good.Steece Hayes — And our risk manager here at ACS, you know, his his whole mantra is your inbox is hostile territory. Just assume everything that comes in is bad.Rich Birch — Yes. Yes. Yeah, it’s true. Be very suspicious.Steece Hayes — Oh, 100%. And it’s not only true for you know your professional world at the church or your job or wherever you are. It’s true in your personal life. Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s very true.Steece Hayes — You know that this is is a big problem. So phishing is a big one. That’s a huge problem today.Rich Birch — Yeah.Steece Hayes — The next next one would just be network intrusion in general. That would be having vulnerabilities in your network, having servers that’s not patched, not having a firewall, you know having your Wi-Fi that’s open to the whole universe and anybody can just come in and have access to it and they’re in your network. So those are the two big ones.Rich Birch — Yeah. And and friends, this the interesting thing about this whole area is I think for some reason, there’s like shame or like embarrassment out there around when this stuff actually happens and people don’t talk about it. And so, you know, this stuff actually happens in organizations. It actually happens in churches. And it happened in my organization. My finance person got an email from me saying—and this is a really common one—saying, hey, could you get five ah gift cards online from for these volunteers? And um I’m just in between meetings – can you can you book them, and just send me back the codes and sent a link to it or whatever.Rich Birch — And she almost took action on it. She almost took the step. And she’s an incredibly smart person. Like this is this is not she’s but then she she gave me a ring and she said, hey, I just want to double check on these gift cards. Well, that’s the first time I heard about that. And then as she was talking to me, she was like, oh, of of course this was not true. But it was socially engineered close enough. That’s just outside of something I would do. Like it was it was like not that strange. Hey, we want to thank these volunteers. We you know, we and wouldn’t be crazy for me to say, let’s get gift cards and give to them like that’s not like a crazy thing.Rich Birch — But it, you know, smart enough. And another, and I’m just saying this friends, not to freak you out, but again, to make you aware: church I know, I’ve done some work with, church of a couple thousand people, they have, and all of their systems are super automated. They have a lot of production stuff that’s super automated. And um they were having repeated technical problems, like repeated technical problems. Like stuff in their audio, stuff in their lighting, stuff on their phone you know their phones, like all this over weeks and could not figure it out.Rich Birch — And finally came to the end of it and realized, oh, they have someone who’s intruded their system and is it’s just they’re just a vandal. Like they’re in, you know, destroying their lighting system, in destroying you know audio, at like during services, like canning stuff and like. So they had to go through a significant thing like, hey, we’re changing it all. We got to go back. Everybody, you know, two factor authentication, all that stuff again. Again, and this was this is a smart church. They’re doing good work. These people are not knuckle draggers. They’re smart people. But there’s like an embarrassment out there to even talk about this stuff. But it happens, friends. You want someone like you. Rich Birch — So how how do you, let’s pivot and talk a little bit more specifically about the services that you provide. Give us a sense of how does this all fit together? How does Higher Ground or ACS, how do how do they actually help a church in this area? What does a typical engagement look like?Steece Hayes — Well, it would be the care would be sort of the the overall framework… Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah. Steece Hayes — …but but it would basically be to talk to the church and find out, you know, where are you? You know, what what’s your current IT situation? And then trying to to raise them up a level. Like we want them to level up in what they’re doing. There’s almost no way that we’re going to 127 percent prevent all cyber crimes. Rich Birch — Right. Steece Hayes — I mean, unfortunately, the days of the Nigerian prince emails are gone.Rich Birch — Right. No, it’s true.Steece Hayes — Today, the cyber criminals are way sophisticated. Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah. Steece Hayes — And so what what we want to do is is is really twofold is one, make them as secure as possible. So we want to take them from being really low hanging fruit to being a little further up on the tree. So if something, if a bad guy is out there kind of shotgunning, looking around for vulnerabilities, your church isn’t going to be one of those he’s going to find, because you’re going to be a lot more difficult, a lot more fortified for the bad guy. So that’s going to be one of the things we’re going to look at. Steece Hayes — And the other thing is, is just internal efficiency. What do you guys, I mean, the number of churches that we run into that have both Microsoft 365 and Google workspaces, it’s like you guys aren’t efficient. Rich Birch — Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s good.Steece Hayes — You know, they’re they’re not backing up their data. Rich Birch — That’s good.Steece Hayes — They’re like, hey, we we’ve got all our stuff is in Microsoft 365. Yeah, guess what? Microsoft doesn’t back that stuff up. If one day it goes away, you’ve just lost it. And so how do we back up your data? How do we keep your data safe, right? And secure and accessible.Rich Birch — That’s good.Steece Hayes — So, I mean, there’s a ton of different things and ways that we engage with the church. It really is what does that church need today? And then that evolve part, of course, would be what are you going to need tomorrow and the next day and going so forth.Steece Hayes — But I want to hit on something you said earlier about looking to grow and add staff and things like that.Rich Birch — Yep. For sure.Steece Hayes — Generally speaking, working with a managed service provider like Higher Ground, we’re going to be significantly less expensive than hiring a full-time person.Rich Birch — Right, right.Steece Hayes — A lot less expensive. Rich Birch — For sure. Steece Hayes — And so if a church is looking to grow and you’re wanting to expand and things like that, we, I personally, would rather you spend that money in hiring a youth pastor or a children’s minister or growing the ministry… Rich Birch — That’s good. Steece Hayes — …and not spend a whole lot of money in your IT staff. Again, some churches need it because they’re a large church and they need to have an IT person there. But we can do a lot of the work that a full-time person would would do and you don’t necessarily need to to add staff for that. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Steece Hayes — Yeah, those those are all the different areas that that we look at.Rich Birch — So good. Now, this I didn’t we didn’t talk about this ahead of time, but let’s picture I’m a church of like a thousand people and I let’s say I’m an executive pastor and I’m like, I just have this niggling feeling that we’re not performing well on this front. Like this is an area that, you know, we, we have the kid who is like, I’m not sure whether they’re any good at this stuff or not doing it. And I’m like, I don’t know. Do you guys provide a service or is there a way for you to come in and kind of do like an audit, help us understand, even get clarity? Will you do like the first step and be like, Hey, just help us understand that kind of see where are we at? Is that, is that the kind of thing that you, you provide? Is there ah an opportunity for that?Steece Hayes — Yeah, yeah, yeah. We actually have. And we we can provide a security assessment for them.Rich Birch — Okay, nice.Steece Hayes — What it is, is basically we we would send to them this assessment and they would go through it. It’s a series of questions, lots of different questions, and they would answer the questions. And at the end of it, it will give them a score where they scored on their assessment. And as you may imagine, the vast majority, and I would say probably 80 to 90% of, of every church has ever taken this assessment score at 50% or below, which is really bad.Rich Birch — Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And this is not like golf where you want a low low score.Steece Hayes — No, no, no.Rich Birch — But I’m also thinking more than just the kind of security stuff.Rich Birch — What about IT in general? Like, I feel like I’ve got problems on, you know, it’s maybe not on the security side, but it is in the like, I man, like we got problems with, in order to get that printer to work, we have to like, you have to stand on one foot and, you know, shake your hand a certain way to get it to work. Those kinds of problems. Can you help us audit that too?Steece Hayes — Yeah, I mean, that’s part of sort of the clarify is when we have that conversation is… Rich Birch — Yes. Part of that service. Yeah. Steece Hayes — …you know, come to us and say, hey here’s our problem. Rich Birch — Yes. Steece Hayes — And these conversations don’t cost the church anything. Rich Birch — Right.Steece Hayes — I mean I, you know, I do this every day. Rich Birch — Right.Steece Hayes — And this is, you know, here’s our problems. These are the things we’re running into. And then we can guide you. And I’ve worked with many churches where we never charge them. Imean, they never bought any of our services, but we had conversations just to help them.Rich Birch — Right. It’s not a great business. Just kidding.Steece Hayes — But at the end of the day, I mean, we still want to help the church. I mean, this is a ministry… Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Yeah, that’s good. Yeah. Steece Hayes — …even though it’s a business, it’s still a ministry. And so we can talk them through some steps on things that they can do. For instance, you know, having a password manager. You know, a password manager is a really inexpensive way for the church to control and to make all their passwords all in one place. They can keep them. They can make their passwords complex. They don’t need to spend a whole lot of money on that. It’s a pretty inexpensive, cheap way of doing that.Steece Hayes — The phishing awareness training and everything I was talking about earlier, they can do that up front day one, and it’s really cheap. I mean, it’s really inexpensive to do that. And we will even walk through, you know, what are your computers? When was the last time they were updated? Are you patching them? Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s good. Steece Hayes — You know, things like that. So, you know, we have a lot of conversations with with churches about easy things that they can fix without spending a lot of money on. But that’s that conversation. We just need to talk to them and find out what what problems they’re having.Rich Birch — Yeah. That’s so good. I noticed, so friends, you want to go to highergroundit.com, top right-hand corner. There’s a “schedule a call” button. You can do that literally while we are on that while we’re wrapping up this episode. You could do that today.Rich Birch — If I go and click on that “schedule a call” button, what happens? Who do I talk to? Reduce some anxiety around that being like, oh, they’re just going to try to sell me on something. Tell tell me about how you can help me. Because what I hear you saying is, hey, you want to help churches, which I know that’s what you want to do. Obviously, I’m paying a little of the devil’s like a advocate here, but help us understand a little bit of, of, of what would that look like if I was to do that today?Steece Hayes — Yeah, and that would be it. I mean, we would just simply talk about your your system, where you are, what your struggles are, what your pain point, what you’re concerned with, your worries. And we simply talk through that.Steece Hayes — And again, I am perfectly happy with us having a conversation and getting off the phone and you never buying anything, but you feel better.Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah. That’s good.Steece Hayes — And you’re going to go do a few of these easy, easy fixes, right? I’m perfectly happy with that. But for many folks, they’re like, hey, we need this and we need it every day. We need it 24/7. We need you guys to help us be a part of the solution. And so in that case, we’ll we’ll have a longer engagement and work with the church to to make them better.Rich Birch — That’s great. So again, ah you want to go to highergroundit.com and click on that schedule a call button. That would be a great way to kind of get the ball rolling today. Anything else you’d like to share with us, Steece, just as today as we kind of wrap up today’s episode?Steece Hayes — I would say for all the churches out there, small, medium, or large, IT needs to be something you’re thinking about. Rich Birch — That’s good.Steece Hayes — It needs to be something that that’s important to you. Many churches don’t even have an IT budget. Have that conversation. Figure out where your budget needs to be. Steece Hayes — And I will say, for all those out there that are weren’t running anything outside of Windows 11, Microsoft ends their support of Windows 10 coming up in Nov or in October. So as of October, if you are not using a Windows 11 computer… Rich Birch — That’s good. Steece Hayes — …it is no longer supported, which means security is going to be a major problem for you. That’s a big tip there.Rich Birch — No, that’s good. That’s really good. So ah again, if you don’t know what that is, you can click the “schedule a call” button. He’d even help you understand if you’re using Windows 10, that might save you right there. So, or you maybe send an email. Maybe that might be an easier way ah to to do that.Steece Hayes — That’s right.Rich Birch — Well, this has been fantastic, Steece. I really appreciate highergroundit.com. Anywhere else we want to send people online to kind of track with you guys?Steece Hayes — That’s the main area. And all of those inquiries will come to me. Rich Birch — Great. Steece Hayes — I’ll be the one that that will field those and we’ll have the conversations. We’ll help them out. So looking forward to talking to folks.Rich Birch — Great. Thanks so much for being here today.Steece Hayes — Thanks, man.

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of unSeminary! A quick heads-up: Rich experienced some sound issues during the recording; thank you for bearing with us. Fortunately, our guest Yolanda comes through loud and clear, and you won’t want to miss the incredible insights she shares. Thanks for your grace and enjoy the conversation! Do you ever feel like your church’s decisions are more emotional than intentional? Is your church struggling with inconsistent processes or reactive planning? In this episode of the unSeminary Podcast, we’re joined by Yolanda Stewart, Executive Pastor at Mosaic Church in Tennessee—one of the fastest-growing churches in America. Tune in as Yolanda shares a practical, Spirit-led decision-making framework that’s helping Mosaic Church thrive at every level. Emotional leadership to strategic clarity. // It’s not uncommon for churches to make decisions based on emotion and urgency rather than shared understanding and strategy. Drawing on her military experience, Yolanda began equipping the team at Mosaic Church with tools for clarity—helping them work smarter, not harder. But instead of demanding change, she approached the team with humility, offering help and building trust. Define, Discern, and Decide. // Yolanda created a framework that her church has used that is called Define, Discern, and Decide. It is inspired the military decision-making model from an infantry handbook and was modified into three steps. Define. // The first step is to clearly define your problem or objective as well as your non-negotiables. Without clarity on what you’re solving for, teams risk wasting resources or solving the wrong problem. What is the ministry culture in your church? What has the pastor established as the non-negotiables? The collaborations should be within the boundaries that the pastor has set or culture has established. Discern. // Involve the Holy Spirit throughout the entire process. Leadership isn’t just practical—it’s deeply spiritual. Discernment guides when and how decisions get made. Decide. // Rather than defaulting to one idea, generate multiple potential solutions. Yolanda encourages at least three courses of action, but underscores it is critical to at least have more than one. Discuss pros, cons, and alignment with the vision before choosing the best course—or blending the best parts of each. Collaboration over command. // One of Mosaic’s core values is “we refuse to do it alone.” Yolanda emphasizes the importance of inviting the right people to the table—including those on the ground level—when making decisions. Collaboration leads to buy-in, richer insights, and stronger execution. Whether you’re the lead pastor or on the executive team, humble leadership and inclusive dialogue are key to implementing transformational change. Spirit-led strategy. // While structure and tools are important, they must be anchored in spiritual discernment. Yolanda emphasizes that “your spirituality is your greatest asset.” Church leaders must integrate spiritual maturity with leadership excellence to avoid importing secular strategies that don’t reflect the heart of the Kingdom. Even hard conversations should be framed with grace, humility, and the fruit of the Spirit. Download the framework. // Yolanda has created a free PDF outlining her Define, Discern, Decide framework, offering guiding questions and practical steps for church leaders. Whether you’re facing a big decision or looking to shift your church culture, this resource can help bring clarity and alignment to your leadership process. Learn more about Mosaic Church by visiting mymosaic.ch. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they’re extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, Rich Birch here from the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you have decided to tune in. Really looking forward to today’s conversation. Today, we are talking about something that I know is going to be super applicable to all of us. We are often faced, how do we make decisions? How do we move forward? How do we push our ministries to what we believe God’s calling to us next and today’s conversation is going to help us think through those yeah those kinds of conversations. It’s going to be great. We’ve got Yolanda Stewart with us. She’s the executive church pastor at a church called Mosaic Church. It’s led by pastors Anthony and Julia Daly, it’s a multi-site church with locations in Tennessee as well as church online, it’s one of the fastest growing churches in the country. Yolanda, so glad to have you here – welcome!Yolanda Stewart — Rich, thank you for having me. I’m glad to be here.Rich Birch — This is an honor. Thank you for taking time. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about the church and tell us about your role, maybe a little bit of the background, ah help us understand a little bit about Mosaic.Yolanda Stewart — It’d be my pleasure. So Mosaic, you mentioned it earlier, is a multi-site church, and we are mission-focused. Many of the things that we get to do for the kingdom happened outside of the United States, outside the walls of of our church.Rich Birch — Love it.Yolanda Stewart — So we have ministry in Africa. We have ministry in Honduras, ministry in China. And of the things that is near and dear to us is reaching people who are ah the underserved, if you will, those who are, there’s not a lot of people in mind to help those types of people. Rich Birch — Love that.Yolanda Stewart — And and which we feel a mandate for us to to to do that. And so we are we are entrenched in missions and we love it. Also, Mosaic is very busy making an effort to impact our community. And so we have several nonprofits that we are are the pioneers for, and in they are in partnership with the city of Clarksville.Yolanda Stewart — Our there is that if the doors of our church close that the mayor would be beating on the doors asking what can he do to open our doors again? And so we we are busy doing that. We have a transitional home for ah foster care children. We do senior accessibility modifications so that they can age in place… Rich Birch — So good. Yolanda Stewart — …and we also have ah developed a community housing development organization where we’re building affordable homes, and I get the privilege to be the executive director of those three programs. Rich Birch — Wow. Yolanda Stewart — And so at the church, my role also includes executive oversight of discipleship, military support, pastoral care, um outreach. And yeah, so that’s what I’m busy doing.Rich Birch — That’s everything. Well, you’re busy. You’re not sitting around looking for stuff to do. That’s for sure.Yolanda Stewart — It’s an adventure.Rich Birch — Tell us. Yeah. Tell us that’s great. That’s so good. Love hearing about all the stuff that Mosaic is engaged in and the real difference, tangible difference you’re making in both here locally and internationally. It’s really great.Rich Birch — Tell us a little bit about your background. What what was your kind of life journey that brought you to Mosaic?Yolanda Stewart — Sure. Well, Rich, I’m a 29-year veteran. I served in the United States Army. Rich Birch — Thank you. Yolanda Stewart — And my last duty station was Fort Campbell, Kentucky, which is just right up the road from Mosaic. I was invited to Mosaic by a a friend that that I’ve I’ve been friends over 30 years now. Our children ah grew up together. But um My time in the military really cultivated leadership qualities that I didn’t know that I possessed, but um you know that was a a training ground for me. And it’s really cool how Uncle Sam prepared me, and leveraged the Holy Spirit ah to, excuse me, leverage my military experience. And then ah coupled that with the Holy Spirit, um I’ve been able to ah bring many of the things that I’ve learned, tools and disciplines, if you will, ah into into ministry. So from the from the military to the marketplace to ministry. And so I retired just a few years ago. I started as an enlisted soldier and went through ROTC, Wright State University graduate… Rich Birch — Very cool. Yolanda Stewart — …and um retired as a lieutenant colonel 2015. Rich Birch — Very cool. Well, you know, I’ve said in other contexts that I really do believe the U.S. military is the the greatest leadership development organization in the world, maybe outside of the church, but like doing amazing work, developing leaders. And it’s a, you know, it’s a real just incredible, you know, just a fertile leadership development kind of engine. And so I’d love to explore that a little bit today and, and talk about how, you know, and learn a little bit about how that journey from, um you know, the military to the marketplace, ultimately to ministry, how you brought some of those decisions along, maybe take us back to when you first joined the team and you were, you know, in that at Mosaic. When you compared the the kind of decisions that were being made, maybe in the military versus the decisions you were making at the church, how did they compare? How were they similar, different? You know, how did they, you know, how did that all fit together?Yolanda Stewart — It’s very different. I will tell you.Rich Birch — Yeah, I can imagine.Yolanda Stewart — The thing that stood out, and and our church was, the staff was very young and very small, was very small ah staff when I came on board. But it was very different in terms of how decisions were made. And what what stood out to me was that there was no ah real framework. It was, it was emotional. It was ah perhaps, um ah you know, opportunistic maybe. You know, and ah it it just, it it made for a very frustrating process for me, having come from an organization that is very structured in how we make decisions.Rich Birch — Right. Yes.Yolanda Stewart — And and so that really stood out to me that, hey, this is an emotional decision. It’s not a well thought-out decision. It’s spontaneous. Fly by the seat of the pants, last minute, you know? Rich Birch — Right, right. Yolanda Stewart — And it resulted in a lot of of frustration… Rich Birch — Yep. Yolanda Stewart — …wasted resources, missing the objective, repeating the same mistakes over and over again. And so, yeah, that stood out to me. Very, very different than what I come from.Rich Birch — Yeah, well, that I think you’ve described, and this is why I’m excited that you’re on the podcast today. You’ve described a lot of churches. That’s where a lot of us are at. We’re in this kind of, like you’re saying, you know emotional, opportunistic. We just kind of, um there’s like a “ready, fire, aim” you know, kind of mentality. Let’s just go.Yolanda Stewart — Yeah.Rich Birch — And, you know, we could, we might understand at a theoretical level, yeah, we need to have some sort of framework. Help me think through when you kind of started thinking about, hey, we’ve got to bring a framework here to make these decisions. How did those conversations go? What did were some of those initial kind of conversations to say, hey, we’re going to try to build a framework here for making decisions? Take us through that.Yolanda Stewart — And that’s a great question. Yes, it makes sense. um I will tell you just just a little insert in here. Coming from the military, going to the marketplace, and then coming to ministry, boy, each of those were were culture cultural differences that really, really stretched me as a leader.Yolanda Stewart — And so in in ministry, um because of just the mindset of ministry, it was it was a challenge for me to remind myself, these are not soldiers. And, you know, they’ve come from so many different backgrounds that I needed to take my time. I needed to throttle myself, if you will, and change my perspective and my approach. Yolanda Stewart — So I didn’t do it right the first time, you know, first you know because in my mind, I was the I just that it was the wrong approach. And with the help of the Holy Spirit, and I’m just telling you, the Holy Spirit is underrated. But with the Holy Spirit, it’s like, it’s not what you say, Yolanda. And it’s not that what you bring to the table isn’t valuable and meaningful and and suitable for this organization. You have to you have to deliver it better.Yolanda Stewart — And so once I worked through that leadership lesson, they were very receptive when I offered…offer. Not, let me tell you what you need to do to be better. It was like, hey, this is a tool that I’ve used in the marketplace. They were amazed. They thought, does everybody in the military make decisions like this? Well no, but listen I got wind of this tool many many years ago and I thought, hey, this works. And so I used it in the marketplace. And so I offered. And, um, pastor was very receptive, very receptive. The staff was very receptive. And to this day, and that was several years ago, Rich, to this day, I smile on the inside when I hear a staff member refer to a course of action, which is, you know, elements of the decision-making model that we’ll talk about. Rich Birch — So good.Yolanda Stewart — But so they were very receptive. And, I was able to do a presentation to the entire staff and and all the pastors came as well. And yeah, that’s how we navigated it. I offered it, and then they accepted my offer.Rich Birch — Love it. Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. Well, that that’s great coaching there even um and um I want to make sure we dive into the the actual framework here for a second, but I think it’s good to pause and even just talk about how how you ended up kind of rolling this out. That’s a great insight for us, kind of regardless of what we’re trying to come with as from the second seat or executive pastor, you know we’re not necessarily the lead or not the lead pastor. And so we’re trying to, to offer help and assistance in a way that, you know, that is seen as help, not like, Hey, we’re trying to come down on you and, and clip your wings or whatever.Rich Birch — Well, talk us through the framework, help us understand ah what what is this framework that you’ve, you’ve installed that has been so helpful?Yolanda Stewart — Yes, it’s my privilege. And I did prepare a PDF… Rich Birch — Perfect. Yolanda Stewart — …that you’ll be able to make available to to your listeners.Rich Birch — Yeah, we’ll link to that in the show notes for sure.Yolanda Stewart — One hundred percent. So, so I call it, and this is, this is something that is so ingrained in me. It’s not like I, I pull my sheet out, you know… Rich Birch — Right. Yolanda Stewart — …but I did my best to capture it on paper because this is just what I do. I just, you know, it’s second nature to me now. But I call it Define, Discern, and Decide. Rich Birch — Okay. Yolanda Stewart — And and I what I did was I, um this tool is inspired by ah the military decision-making model that I adopted from an infantry handbook, mind you.Rich Birch — Love it.Yolanda Stewart — I was a medical service corps officer and so they we heal them. That’s kind of just what we say in the army. But I got wind of this and and what I did was I modified it into three steps.Yolanda Stewart — Essentially, the first step is to clearly define your your problem or your objective. And you can’t sleep on this step, Rich, because it’s anchor for the whole ah process of making a good decision. And if you’re not clear on your objective, then you risk wasting resources, missing you know the the intent of the whole conversation, if you will, hold the whole collaboration, if your objective is not clear. So you’ve got to ah do the work to, take your time, not rush through it. Rich Birch — So good.Yolanda Stewart — You’ve got to clearly define the objective. And the the second step that that I lay out there in the in the document that I prepared for your listeners is to clearly define the non-negotiables. Because sometimes, and this is from experience, too often, one, if you don’t clearly define the objective, and if you don’t, secondly, clearly outline the non-negotiables, then you run the risk of, you know, collaborating and getting all excited about things that your pastor is like, we’re not doing that. Rich Birch — Right.Yolanda Stewart — We’re we’re not doing that. Rich Birch — Right. Yes.Yolanda Stewart — Now you’re frustrated because you didn’t consider what we call, and and they’ve adopted this term in in ministry at Mosaic, but we call it the commander’s intent. That’s what we call it in the military. So so you’ve got to know your pastor. You’ve got to know what has your pastor established ah that are non-negotiables or what is the ministry culture that should function as guardrails or boundaries, if you will, so that your collaboration is within the confines of the boundary that either your pastor has set or the culture has established. Does that make sense?Rich Birch — Oh, that makes that makes total sense. I’m familiar with the commander’s intent idea, but I think that’s really good to early on, why is that immediately after the kind of the problem? So clearly understanding the problem and then next clearly identifying non-negotiables. Why what’s the interplay between those two? Why is that so important right up front?Yolanda Stewart — Right up front, it’s important because it sets the the the the restrictions, the guardrails, the boundaries.Rich Birch — That’s good.Yolanda Stewart — If you start outside of the boundaries, you’re never… Rich Birch — Right. Yolanda Stewart — …going to make the the type of decisions efficiently without going back and and redoing and going back and redoing, if you don’t start with those two keys. If you don’t start with clearly defining the objective or defining the problem… Rich Birch — That’s good. Yolanda Stewart — …and if you don’t, um then establish what those or identify, because they’re already established, but identify those non-negotiables, you’ve already started on the wrong foot.Rich Birch — That’s good.Yolanda Stewart — Does it make sense?Rich Birch — Makes sense. Total sense. Yep, absolutely. For sure.Yolanda Stewart — Yeah, and so then from there, and let me just go back just for one micro moment to talk about the non-negotiables and talk about the importance of knowing your leader. Discernment is important at all three steps. And also just, you know, discernment, not just from the standpoint of your experience, what the pastor has said, um what the culture dictates, but what is Holy Spirit saying?Rich Birch — Very good. Very good.Yolanda Stewart — And and and I am I am sold on the necessity of the Holy Spirit.Rich Birch — Yeah that, which is good. That’s good.Yolanda Stewart — I’m entrenched. It’s too late to change my mind now, you know.Rich Birch — Well, and this this, I’d love to double click on this because this will actually, you’re pre-thinking a question that’s bubbling in the back of my head, which is, I think that there can be a really beautiful coexistence of a fairly defined process, not rigid, but defined process, while at the same time, a high value on pursuing what the Holy Spirit wants to do and holding those two in harmony. I think sometimes we think, or there may be leaders who think that those are in opposed to each other.Rich Birch — Maybe talk to a leader who who is saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m all in on the Holy Spirit, but why do if I’m all in on the Holy Spirit, why do I need to do all this other stuff? Why do I need to have this? You know, how do those two kind of coexist together?Yolanda Stewart — That’s so that’s such a great question. It it made me think, immediately, when you began to elaborate on that question, I thought about a physician. Okay, a physician at spirit field. He still needed to go to school.Rich Birch — That’s good. That’s good. Yep.Yolanda Stewart — And he had to garner the knowledge, the education that was necessary for him to perform that function. And so don’t negate the the the education that a physician and the continuing education necessary for that physician to achieve the objective.Rich Birch — That’s good.Yolanda Stewart — What the Holy Spirit does is he’s able to ah be the governor how that education is applied, how, what you do, how you do it, and leverage all that you have experienced by way of education, by way of practice and, and, and, and so on and so forth to achieve something far more than just the, the, the tangible, the, you know, the physical, you understand?Yolanda Stewart — And so for me, I am, I am a spirit-filled Christ follower that have been called to leadership. They’re not I’m not two different people. And for me to think that I can function in excellence and please the Lord in a place where I have to choose whether I’m going to apply the Holy Spirit, give Holy Spirit access, give Holy Spirit influence, it makes absolutely, I can’t even make sense of it. It’s like, I need the Holy Spirit and I want, and I invite him to, to, to partner with me. I bring something to the table. I bring education. I bring my due diligence. I bring my experience. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Yolanda Stewart — And what I’m asking Holy Spirit to do is to leverage, do what only you can do… Rich Birch — That’s good. Yolanda Stewart — …you know, that is bigger than me. Rich Birch — Yeah, 100%.Yolanda Stewart — But i’m not, and so what we do, Rich, sometimes is we idolize our intelligence so much so that we diminish the necessity of the Holy Spirit.Rich Birch — So good. So good.Yolanda Stewart — You understand?Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s great. So good.Yolanda Stewart — I don’t know if I answered your question.Rich Birch — No, you did. Absolutely. No, that was super helpful. That’s that’s great. Okay. So I understand kind of commander’s intent, clearly identify the non-negotiables. Then what’s the next step in in the process? Then I want to ask a couple kind of follow-up questions.Yolanda Stewart — Sure. And then the the final step is to begin developing the courses of action. Rich Birch — Okay. Yolanda Stewart — And so I do go into um more detail on the document that the tool I’ll refer to. There’s some key identifying, um excuse me, key considerations and and ah ah guiding questions that serve as just, you know, some good insight for a person that is new to this process. Rich Birch — Yep. Yolanda Stewart — I kind of do them in my head and sometimes I will capture them on the agenda and the in the the tool that I’m using when I’m leading a meeting or leading a collaboration, but it’s develop the courses of action. And my encouragement is always, and I’ve learned this from the process, is having more than one course of action is crucial.Rich Birch — That’s good.Yolanda Stewart — And so I always encourage three, but always more than two, more than one, excuse me.Rich Birch — More than one.Yolanda Stewart — Three ideally, but more than one, because it’ll stretch you. It’ll cause you to, it’ll force you to think outside of the box, be innovative, not get caught in this rut of this is what we’ve always done. So you, you know, you’re afraid to do new things. And that collaboration of, ah that takes place when you’re developing the courses of action. When you invite key people to the table, In collaboration, one of our core values at Mosaic is collaboration. Rich Birch — Yep. Yolanda Stewart — The tagline to that is we refuse to do it alone. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Yolanda Stewart — When you collaborate, you get access to people’s experience, you get their buy-in, and you get to leverage their insight and their innovation to help you make a good decision. But developing that course, the three courses of action, ideally three, more than one always, is is going to give you the opportunity to stretch, give you the opportunity to weigh the the pros and the cons and help you go to this through this, excuse me, critical thinking process. So when it’s all done, you’re able to identify, hey, we thought that was a good idea or a great course of action until we developed or identified the pros and the cons. And do they ah speak well to the non-negotiables? Do they marry with the commander’s intent? So now you’re able to go through these processes of of elimination. And when it’s all said and done, you’re able to land on either one course of action… Rich Birch — That’s good. Yolanda Stewart — …or an amalgamation of the three to make a decision.Rich Birch — Right. Yeah. Oh, I love that. And man, I think that that right there is gold. I think so many times we get caught in binary thinking as church leaders. It’s like, well, we’re either going to do this or that. I love the idea of let’s force to three, or maybe more even, to try to get us to think outside the box, even if it’s at the front end seems like that’s a ridiculous, that third option is ridiculous, but let’s actually go down the course, figure it out, pull it apart. And and we might you might find some gold there that we can then apply ah you know, even to some of the others. That’s that’s fantastic. Rich Birch — So as you’ve run this process multiple times and helped you make some decisions, could you give me an example of how this process helped you make a clearer decision that that felt like hey, we’re we’re not just reacting, we’re we’re making a better kind of long-term, you know not emotional, not necessarily opportunistic, although it it may have emotions and opportunity involved in it. But how do, give me an example of of something that you feel like, hey, this process helped make better at Mosaic.Yolanda Stewart — Oh, that’s so good. Well, I’m in it right now. Rich Birch — Love it. Yolanda Stewart — And this is the the second iteration, by the way. And so so Mosaic, I’ll just preface my my example with this: Mosaic grew exponentially over the last few years.Rich Birch — Yep.Yolanda Stewart — And when I ah ah came to Mosaic, I want to tell you that we were about 150 people. Rich Birch — Wow.Yolanda Stewart — We have since grown to, I think we’re around about 2,300 regular average weekly attenders.Rich Birch — Yep.Yolanda Stewart — That that include… Rich Birch — That’s amazing. That’s huge growth. Yolanda Stewart — Yeah. And that includes around 600 or so children. Rich Birch — Yep. And oh there there were um areas where it’s like we we crafted, I say we, but it predated me, but we’ve crafted these narratives that we weren’t quite achieving them. So let me say say use this as an example. So our our vision mission statement, if you will, was we make disciples and we release ministers. And so here I come along and I say, well, how? How are we making disciples?Rich Birch — That’s good.Yolanda Stewart — And um the answer was inadequate because the answer was we do it through connect groups. And so then here I am with myself, you know, coming along and being the challenge to to just provoke us, right?Yolanda Stewart — I said, okay, if if if there’s if there’s a very low expectation for connect group leaders. If anyone can be a connect group leader, if you’ve been saved 20 minutes, you can be a connect group leader. Then tell me how a baby Christian who is just motivated to lead a group can be called a disciple-maker, when we have no way of of certainty that they’ve been, well, we do, but when they’ve not been discipled.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Yolanda Stewart — And so I said, we need to do better. So let’s come to the table and let’s talk about what we can do to raise the level of expectation, rather raise the standard for what it looks like to be a group leader. And then let’s build what I call a transformational leadership pipeline. Rich Birch —That’s good. Yolanda Stewart — Let’s build a real process, a framework that at the end of it, we’ve got to make sure it’s simple because that’s our pastor. He’s like, look, don’t complicate stuff to where now it’s a deterrent, right?Rich Birch — That’s good.Yolanda Stewart — But I’m okay with it being robust enough to be effective, but it can’t be too too robust to be a deterrent for people. But I said, let’s build framework that’s simple, measurable, and meaningful so that at the end of the day, we can stand back and say, okay, we truly do… Rich Birch — That’s good. Yolanda Stewart — …make disciples and release ministers. Here’s the framework that we do that. Here’s the process. It’s measurable. There’s accountability in there. Rich Birch — That’s good.Yolanda Stewart — There is benchmarks, if you will. It’s simple and achievable and effective. And so anyway, I’m in the process. And and this, I said, it’s the second iteration. We’ve already made some progress, but we’re not done yet. Rich Birch — Okay.Yolanda Stewart — But the culture that we’re in, I had to give my pastor time to to digest where I had already gotten us to. Rich Birch — That’s good. Yolanda Stewart — And so now he’s at the place where because of my approach and you’ve got to be humble, Rich, when you’re bringing ideas that is going to shift the whole paradigm of a ministry.Rich Birch — Yeah.Yolanda Stewart — If you come in—I learned this the hard way—if you come in with the wrong approach, it could take years for you to achieve a good momentum…Rich Birch — that’s goodYolanda Stewart — …you know, unnecessary delay because your approach your approach was wrong. And so I’m in the middle of taking a team of leaders that I invited to the table and we have identified our objective. Our objective is to establish a transformational leadership pipeline… Rich Birch — That’s so good. Yolanda Stewart — …that we can roll out to group leaders and group coaches that when they are gone through this process, it’s not a transactional process, it’s a transformational process. It can’t be classroom setting. Rich Birch — Right. Yolanda Stewart — So we we are identifying, we identified the objective and you’ve got to do one at a time, but we identified the objective. Now we’re putting the meat on the bones… Rich Birch — Love it. Yolanda Stewart — …and and what I call building the gooey center… Rich Birch — [laughs] Yolanda Stewart — …building the gooey center…Rich Birch — So good.Yolanda Stewart — …so at the end of it all, we will have a framework that we have gone through this process of different courses of action and we will land on what we know is is effective, simple, measurable, and transformational.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. Well, when you think about these steps, is there one of them that seems to be the place that things get stuck? Is it that it’s like, or or is there a common pothole with one of them that, man, we want to make sure we avoid as we think about ah these these three steps?Yolanda Stewart — It’s step number one.Rich Birch — Right, okay. Not being clear on what the problem is we’re trying to solve.Yolanda Stewart — It’s not being clear on what… Rich Birch — Yeah. Yolanda Stewart — …because it becomes emotional. Rich Birch — Yeah. Yolanda Stewart — And you you’ve got to focus on the objective that you are trying to achieve or the problem that you’re aiming to solve, not what you feel or what you’re experiencing. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. Yeah, I can see that.Yolanda Stewart — So so that seems to be a common pothole where people get stuck.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s… Yolanda Stewart — I’ve been stuck there before.Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah. Well, no, I can see that. Or you get it’s that whole, know, you’ve you’ve climbed up the ladder and realized the ladder is leaning against the wrong wall. It’s like we’re solving a problem and get halfway there and you realize, oh, this isn’t actually the right problem to be solving. That, you know, that makes that makes a lot of sense.Rich Birch — Well, when you think, let’s, you know, let’s think I’m maybe an executive pastor or a lead pastor that’s leading it, that’s listening in today. And they’re thinking about, Ooo there’s a decision coming up. What advice would you give them for some initial steps to try to help build a stronger alignment around maybe even understanding what that problem is? If the first if step one is the critical piece of the puzzle, how can what what advice would you give to us on defining the problems that we should even push through a process like this? How how do you how do you help us help us think through what that could look like for us?Yolanda Stewart — That’s such a great question, Rich. Collaboration. Invite the right people to the table.Rich Birch — That’s good.Yolanda Stewart — That’s my advice. I mentioned that I started my military career as a private. If you know anything about the military, the private is the voiceless person, right? So we’re polishing pipes and doing, you know, police calling, picking up trash and things. But what I learned as a sergeant and what I learned as a cadet and what I learned as a colonel a commander, is that that private is the key to my success.Rich Birch — Oh, that’s good.Yolanda Stewart — I’m the ideator. I am the person, you know, at certain levels of leadership. Sometimes my head is is, you know, at the 30,000 foot perspective. And like I’m not aware that the the the real challenges are, you know, fill in the blank because I’m not at the execution level. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s goodYolanda Stewart — And if you don’t invite the right people to the table, then you risk, you know, the the the you you forfeit the the the beauty of their contribution and the importance of of its influence to the outcome.Rich Birch — No, that’s good.Yolanda Stewart — And so my my encouragement to leaders is humble yourself, humble yourself exclamation. And look around. Refuse to do it alone. Leverage the experience, the perspective… Rich Birch — That’s good. Yolanda Stewart — …of the folks who are going to be most impacted by the decision that you’re about to make. Leverage the the insight of the people who are going to be expected to execute, communicate, coordinate, if you will, the decision that you’re about to make. Invite them to the table… Rich Birch — That’s so good.Yolanda Stewart — …so that they can get buy-in, you can get their buy-in, and you can get the benefit of their experience and their perspective. So that would be my advice.Rich Birch — Well, Yolanda, this has been great. I can see why God is using your leadership at at Mosaic. This has been a rich conversation today. I really appreciate this. And thank you for this handout. Super helpful for ah for people. As we’re kind of coming to land the plane, anything else you’d ah you’d like to share with us today?Yolanda Stewart — Yes, and and I want to circle back because I think, you know, what one of the things that we say at Mosaic is your spirituality is your greatest asset. And um sometimes, especially leaders at the level that I’m leading at, sometimes they come from the marketplace and they have been indoctrinated by the culture of of the secular, you know, market, if you will. And I want to just say, as as spiritual leaders, we cannot lose sight… Rich Birch — That’s good. Yolanda Stewart — …of the importance of our spirituality being the greatest influence in all of the things that we do, especially our leadership. We are being trusted to lead. We have been positioned and assigned to lead. And if we choose to do it independent of, of total dependency on the help of the Holy Spirit and our spirituality, we risk many of the, the, the what I think are counter-kingdom, counter-kingdom consequences ah in church because leaders bring secular culture into the church and and and leverage those types of things to be leaders. And we lose lose sight of servant leadership, what that really looks like.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Yolanda Stewart — And become transactional leaders, you know, disconnected versus transformational leaders.Rich Birch — So good.Yolanda Stewart — You know, people are used as tools and we ah we exploit people. And this just mindset from the secular world, my my encouragement would be just be careful as a leader. Don’t forget that your spirituality is your greatest asset. Bring it to the table every time, even when you’re bringing correction. You know, you should bring a basket of fruit. Galatians 2 conversations, the hard ones, you know, bring the basket of fruit and don’t lose sight that you are a disciple-maker. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good.Yolanda Stewart — Even when you’re having the hard conversations to bring corrections. So there’s good insight from the secular market. But we must not allow the secular market to influence our dependency on our spirituality to lead God’s people.Rich Birch — Well, this has been fantastic. So helpful today. First, just want to honor you for your service. Thank you so much for what you’ve done in the military and then how you’ve brought this with such wisdom and insight and applied that to Mosaic. It’s just been fantastic. If people want to connect with the church or with you, how do how do we do that? Where can we point them online to connect with the church?Yolanda Stewart — Yes, mosaicchurch.us is how you find us. And we are in the process of of uploading some of these tools that we are developing in-house.Rich Birch — Love it.Yolanda Stewart — And um I’m looking forward to the opportunity for those things to be available online as well. But just to hear some messages and just to get some inspiration, that’s how you can find us online.Rich Birch — Love it. Great. We’ll link to that in the show notes. Thanks so much, Yolanda. I appreciate you being here today.Yolanda Stewart — Rich, thank you so much. Bye-bye now.

Many churches yearn for a significant impact during Christmas but often find themselves disappointed. The key lies in a structured invitation strategy rather than random efforts. A full system is essential, as simply adding more tasks won't suffice. Passionate communication from the congregation can ignite growth, while repeated messaging fosters momentum. Utilizing tools like the Christmas Invite Accelerator can enhance outreach, ensuring that the invitation process is effective and engaging.

Devin Goins, Executive Pastor of Strategic Development at Biltmore Church, discusses the challenges of aligning staff in a rapidly growing church. He emphasizes that growth brings complexity, requiring constant adjustments and preparation for future needs. Devin introduces a diagnostic tool to evaluate team alignment and shares insights on engaging with volunteers for clarity in communication. He also presents a framework to assess emotional zones within staff, advocating for a culture of appreciation and teamwork to enhance organizational health.

Discover how churches can leverage Christmas for growth! Learn about a Texas church that ignited excitement with a pre-Christmas service challenge, inviting attendees to bring friends. Explore a California church's VIP experience that enhanced first-time visitor engagement through digital promotions. In Canada, a church created a competitive volunteer program encouraging outreach and spiritual growth. These innovative strategies show that Christmas can be more than a tradition; it can be a powerful tool for community connection and expansion.