The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast

This week’s episode is about trauma bonding. I’ve been doing a lot of research on trauma bonding recently because it comes up with so many of my clients and members of my groups. In doing the research I realized that I had a trauma bond in a relationship that ended only five and a half years ago. What this means is that a good five years into my coaching career, fifteen years into my codependency recovery, and well into my divorce, I slipped down this rabbit-hole myself.  According to Shahida Arabi, author of the amazing book, Becoming the Narcissist’s Nightmare, a trauma bond is: “A bond that forms due to intense, emotional experiences, usually with a toxic person. Similar to Stockholm Syndrome, it holds us emotionally captive to a manipulator who keeps us “hostage” – whether that be through physical or emotional abuse.”  Trauma bonding can happen to anyone, especially those of us who are pre-conditioned to be drawn to relationships that are abusive or in some way reflective of past or childhood traumas. And let me be absolutely clear: There’s no shame in this, but there is great power in seeing the trauma bond for what it is, because only then can we begin to break free of it.  Here are just a few of the topics I touch on in this episode: How to recognize a trauma bond: I share the story of my own trauma bonded relationship, which, surprisingly, was NOT with my ex-husband. How to heal from a trauma bond: To break free of a trauma bond, professional help in the form of psychotherapy and life coaching is always highly recommended. How to co-parent when healing from a trauma bond: when parallel parenting is better than co-parenting.  This is a deep, dense, and intense topic. Please be gentle with yourself as you process this, and be sure to let me know if you need help breaking a trauma bond. Resources & Links: Private Coaching Consult with MeShould I Stay or Should I Go Facebook Group Becoming the Narcissist’s NightmareThe High-Conflict Co-Parenting Survival GuideBIFF: Quick Responses to High-Conflict People, Their Personal Attacks, Hostile Email, and Social Media MeltdownsHigh-Conflict Divorce for WomenMagic Words: How to Get What You Want from a Narcissist  DSG Episode: Surviving Abuse with Mickie Zada

This week, Jonathon Aslay, America's Leading Mid-Life Dating Coach, joins me to discuss the importance of learning how to love yourself. In this episode, Jonathon shares his divorce story and his journey to self-love, and how that journey prepared him for the biggest hardship yet to come. His story is a powerful testament to personal development and self-work. As you’ve heard me say before, there was a (large) part of me that died in my marriage. And I will say it again and again, the greatest gift to myself (and to my ex) was to leave my marriage.  As Jonathon so eloquently put it, “This experience called life, is our experience first.”  It’s okay to end a relationship that does not serve you or your partner. Our conversation today is a great reminder that there are ways to coexist but not stay married, and ways to begin a journey of experiencing life on your own terms.  I’ll leave you some of Jonathon’s words of wisdom, “Divorce is the unraveling of one’s former tapestry and that takes its toll. If one chooses to begin to work on themselves, they will be much more prepared when it happens.”  (And, shameless plug, this is exactly what we do in my program!)  Show Highlights Jonathon’s experience with divorce and what he had hoped he learned about marriage beforehand (5:00) Through relationships we learn about ourselves (9:29) Some things men and women do that scream, “I’m wounded and haven’t healed yet!” (10:00) His online dating addiction after divorce and how he transformed from living life from an egoic place to how he now sees and experiences life; through the eyes of love (13:18) If you are on a spiritual path and your partner is not, what do you do? (17:06) Staying in a marriage ‘out of obligation’ and why that’s not enough (21:03) Men are nesters in a relationship and women are the container of the heart for a relationship; plus what that all means (21:33) Emotional connections and why communication is a skill we don’t readily have (27:00) It’s a daily practice to invest in oneself, because it begins to strengthen us from the inside out (32:31) How the daily investing in himself prepared Jonathon for a devastating loss, the loss of his 19-year old son (35:41) Whether we’re grieving loss of child, parent, loved one, job or marriage, the work we do on ourselves prepares us (38:00) Personal development is not just for women, self-love and self-help is for everyone (43:00) Learn More About Jonathon: The focus of one of America's Leading Mid-Life Dating Coach has expanded into a deeper, essential philosophy of what it truly means to LOVE.     After losing his 19-year-old son Connor in 2018, Jonathon Aslay’s grief led him on a soul-searching inner journey, where he became aware of an often-overlooked dimension of the dating conversation.    He realized that the process of dating reveals the most common emotional health issue faced by many singles seeking a partner: a distressing lack of self-worth, self-regard, and self-love.     Today, he is on a mission of encouraging both men and women to fully love themselves with a new book, "What The Heck Is Self-Love Anyway?"—packed with fun, engaging spiritual and personal growth practices—and his dynamic Mid-Life Love Mastery mentorship program, that inspires hundreds of people daily, around the world.  Resources & Links:→ This episode was sponsored by FAYR, the easiest, most intuitive and conflict-diffusing co-parenting app on the market today!  Sign up at: www.befayr.com  Use code KAnthony for 20% off! Then download the app from the Apple’s App Store or Google Play.  -------------- Jonathon’s websiteJonathon on InstagramWhat the Heck Is Self-Love, Anyway - Free Chapters Download GOOD NEWS!! ROOTED is back! And now it’s an online course that you can do on your own, in your own time! If you think you might want out of your marriage, but you can’t seem to find the courage to make a decision once and for all, and you’re scared you won’t have the strength to get through all that comes after you say those four words,"I want a divorce,” then ROOTED is 100% for you. ROOTED is my online coaching program that’s designed to help you FIND YOUR STRENGTH, BUILD YOUR CONFIDENCE, AND STEP INTO YOUR POWER. Learn more here.The Ultimate Divorce Survival GuideShould I Stay or Should I Go Facebook Group

Today I am talking about what to do when your husband or spouse tells you, “NOW, I want go to therapy….” And boy, this is a big one. In fact, it is very common too. And I have thoughts, I have so many thoughts.  Here's the scenario: You've been unhappy for a while. Maybe a long-ass while. You've told your husband you're unhappy. You've asked him to go to therapy with you. Often multiple times. Maybe you’ve begged him to go with you but he’s still said, “No”. He may even have said, "I'd rather get divorced than go to therapy."  So you continue to suffer, to make the most of it, to care for yourself and your children, to put on a happy face to the world, all the while suffering inside. Until one day you just can't do it anymore. Until one day the switch flips and you JUST.FUCKING.CAN'T. That’s the day tell him you're done. And you mean it this time.  And he knows it. He feels it. And he panics. And he tells you he'll do anything. He tells you, “Now, I want to go to therapy. Maybe he means it, but more often it’s a last ditch attempt to get you to stay. If you have one shred of a fuck left to give, even just one corner, go to therapy. Watch him carefully. See what he's willing to DO. Remember ACTIONS 👏🏻 ACTIONS 👏🏻 ACTIONS 👏🏻. You cannot fix what’s broken in your marriage on your own. You need help. So today, I am offering some help on this podcast in the way of advice so you know what to do if or when your spouse utters those famous words, “Now, I want to go to therapy.”.  Here are just a few of the topics I touch on in this episode: What to do when your spouse says they want to go to couples therapy, after you’ve told them you want a divorce The credentials and attributes to look for in a good couples’ therapist Why you feel guilty when you know you’re done and your spouse is pulling every play out of the ‘please don’t go’ book Listening to and understanding your personal truth Resources & Links:→ This episode was sponsored by FAYR, the easiest, most intuitive and conflict-diffusing co-parenting app on the market today!  Sign up at: www.befayr.com  Use code KAnthony for 20% off! Then download the app from the Apple’s App Store or Google Play.  -------------- GOOD NEWS!! ROOTED is back! And now it’s an online course that you can do on your own, in your own time! If you think you might want out of your marriage, but you can’t seem to find the courage to make a decision once and for all, and you’re scared you won’t have the strength to get through all that comes after you say those four words,"I want a divorce,” then ROOTED is 100% for you. ROOTED is my online coaching program that’s designed to help you FIND YOUR STRENGTH, BUILD YOUR CONFIDENCE, AND STEP INTO YOUR POWER. Learn more here. The Ultimate Divorce Survival Guide Should I Stay or Should I Go Facebook Group

This week on the podcast I am joined by CDC Certified Divorce Coach®, Debra Doak. Debra specializes in helping women make hard decisions about marriage, divorce, money, and life. She is also an author, speaker, and Certified Divorce Financial Analyst® who loves giving women the confidence they need to speak up in their relationships or at the negotiating table. Her new book, High Conflict Divorce for Women, comes out today! Her work and her words truly resonate with me, which is why I wanted to have her on the show. Today we talk all about the preparations women need to take before pursuing divorce, including creating an exit strategy, getting your financial house in order, and more. We also talk about how we help women understand who they are in the world and provide them with the tools needed to be their own best advocate.  Because when it comes right down to it, you are the decision maker in your divorce. As Debra said, “You know what is best for you and make your own decisions. I don’t want anyone to punt that responsibility to somebody else who doesn’t have to live with the consequences.” Today, Debra offers sound advice and coping skills for maneuvering through a high conflict divorce.    Show Highlights The knowledge that women can co-exist and lift each other up in all aspects of life and business (6:00) Debra’s path to becoming a CDC Certified Divorce Coach following her own high conflict divorce (8:26) The things we normalize in relationships; when what is happening really is NOT okay! (11:15) Debra’s book High Conflict Divore for Women: Coping Skills and Legal Strategies for All Stages of Divorce (16:00) The importance of preparation (or creating your exit strategy) before pursuing divorce (17:00) If you don't have access to your household financials, change that NOW and the power that comes when you can, “wait with intention” (19:00) Using child support and child custody as the worst form of revenge (25:00) Having your BFF backup and support system ready (27:00) The biggest mistake people make in divorce is forgetting who the decision makers are; you are in charge of your divorce and you get to make the decisions (31:22) If you don’t feel safe or protected by your lawyer, go find another lawyer (32:00) Emotional regulation: what it means and how it can help you with a high conflict divorce (37:00) The importance of processing your pain first so you don’t pass it on to your children (48:18) Equipping your children and giving them agency so they can navigate co-parenting relationships and for life, in general (52:00)   Learn More About Debra: Debra Doak specializes in helping women make hard decisions about marriage, divorce, money, and life. She is an author, speaker, CDC Certified Divorce Coach® and Certified Divorce Financial Analyst® who loves giving women the confidence they need to speak up in their relationships or at the negotiating table. Debra believes that knowledge is the antidote to fear and that planning well for divorce creates better outcomes for everyone. Most of her days include messy buns, tons of coffee, cats and Zooming with clients. And she has 2 kind, resilient, adult children who are out changing the world. Resources & Links:This episode was sponsored by FAYR, the easiest, most intuitive and conflict-diffusing co-parenting app on the market today!  Sign up at: www.befayr.com  Use code KAnthony for 20% off! Then download the app from the Apple’s App Store or Google Play.  ------------Debra’s websiteDebra on FacebookDebra on Instagram Debra’s book: High Conflict Divorce for Women Debra’s Know Your Numbers Starter Pack Get a head start with this bundle of tools, tips, and worksheets I use with clients every day to help them take charge of their financial lives. Because knowing your numbers means making smarter decisions.  YogaClub - use this link and get $20 off your first order! The Ultimate Divorce Survival GuideShould I Stay or Should I Go Facebook Group ------------ GOOD NEWS!! ROOTED is back! And now it’s an online course that you can do on your own, in your own time! If you think you might want out of your marriage, but you can’t seem to find the courage to make a decision once and for all, and you’re scared you won’t have the strength to get through all that comes after you say those four words,"I want a divorce,” then ROOTED is 100% for you. ROOTED is my online coaching program that’s designed to help you FIND YOUR STRENGTH, BUILD YOUR CONFIDENCE, AND STEP INTO YOUR POWER. Learn more here.

This week I am bringing you a solo episode! As I continue to roll out weekly episodes, you’ll hear more solo episodes, like this one, from me.  And of course, I’ll continue to produce interview episodes as well. Weekly episodes means more support and resources for you; and more fun for me. Win-win! This week I’m bringing you a training I did as a webinar last year about whether or not you should stay in your marriage for your kids. This is one of the BIG topics I get asked about all the time. Of course it is. It’s the biggest conundrum we all face If you’ve been mulling over this particular question, I know you’re feeling a lot of uncertainty — about your future, about your present. You’ve heard horror stories and maybe people in your family and community are telling you you’re selfish for even thinking of leaving, and you think surely you should just suck it up and stay for your kids. And despite everything everyone’s saying, more than anything you just want to know that whatever you choose, your kids will be ok. As a mom, you put them first in everything. Every move you make for yourself and your life you put through the filter of “what’s best for my kids?”  So how can you possibly make a decision about your marriage without putting them first? Without considering how this will affect them? Without the deepest fear that if you decide to leave your marriage, you’re going to break them? If the idea of leaving is just as terrifying as the idea of staying, what should you do? In today’s episode I’m going to reveal 3 vital truths about whether or not leaving your marriage will screw up your kids, and then I’m going to dig deeply into each one.  Here are just a few of the topics I touch on in this episode: You deserve to be happy, and why your happiness is actually vital for your kids’ mental health Divorce doesn’t screw up kids. How we do divorce screws up kids. Why I had to leave my marriage, for my son Keeping your own side of the street squeaky clean (aka co-parenting with integrity) Resources: This episode was sponsored by FAYR, the easiest, most intuitive and conflict-diffusing co-parenting app on the market today!  Sign up at: www.befayr.com  Use code KAnthony for 20% off! Then download the app from the Apple’s App Store or Google Play.  _____ GOOD NEWS!!  ROOTED is back! And now it’s an online course that you can do on your own, in your own time! If you think you might want out of your marriage, but you can’t seem to find the courage to make a decision once and for all, and you’re scared you won’t have the strength to get through all that comes after you say those four words,"I want a divorce,” then ROOTED is 100% for you. ROOTED is my online coaching program that’s designed to help you FIND YOUR STRENGTH, BUILD YOUR CONFIDENCE, AND STEP INTO YOUR POWER. Learn more here. The Ultimate Divorce Survival Guide Should I Stay or Should I Go Facebook Group Domestic Violence Hotline: 800-799-7233 or TheHotline.org

This week I am joined by the fabulous, Gabrielle Hartley, Esq. Gabrielle is a leading divorce attorney and is the author of Better Apart: The Radically Positive Way to Separate. Gabrielle founded the positive divorce movement and is known for keeping 99% of her cases at the negotiation table and out of the courtroom.  With her book, Better Apart, she has created a complete Bible on how to get through your divorce in the most positive and elegant way possible. And I just love that word, elegant. Can you imagine your divorce being described as elegant? Her book is the first of its kind to combine the life-changing and healing wisdom of mindfulness, meditation, and yoga with practical advice and legal wisdom to get the reader through and beyond divorce. I cannot recommend her book highly enough.  Gabrielle joins me to talk about the five elements of the Better Apart Method. She answers the question, “Can divorce really spark joy?” and talks about how to create an elegant divorce for you and your children.  Show Highlights The positive divorce movement can spark the change we need in the world of divorce (3:10) Can divorce really spark joy? (4:02) Clearing the emotional clutter can help regulate your response to common divorce triggers (6:03) If you struggle with responding versus reacting, give yourself the permission you need to make space in your body first (8:20) Creating an elegant divorce for you and your children (13:50) Many of the relationships we have are dictated, partially, in how we interact with those people; plus understanding we are not responsible for others behaviors or choices (16:46) The five elements of the Better Apart Method and some exercises to put them into practice: patience, respect (respecting the process and yourself), peace (noticing the neutral), clarity (where we go from blame game to active visionary), and forgiveness (forgiving yourself will provide emotional freedom). (18:52) In order to move forward, we need to take a big step back; plus how reflective listening and marriage counseling can help you even if you do decide to divorce (37:24) Learn More About Gabrielle: Gabrielle Hartley Esq. , is a leading divorce attorney, mediator, case closer, author and speaker.  She founded The Positive Divorce Movement and is the creator of The Better Apart Method. She is known for keeping 99% of her cases at the negotiation table and out of the courtroom.    Her new book, Better Apart; The Radically Positive Way to Separate (Harper Collins) is the first book of its kind to combine the life changing, healing wisdom of mindfulness, meditation and yoga with practical advice and legal wisdom to get the reader through and beyond the divorce. Better Apart was named “the conscious uncoupling how-to” by People Magazine.  She been featured throughout media channels including The New York Times, U.S. News and World Report, The New York Post,Yoga Journal,  Mind Body Green, The Hampshire Gazette, The Brian Lehrer Show.  She is a regular guest and blogger featured on local television and radio as well as dozens of podcasts and blogs around the world.    Gabrielle is on the faculty of The American Bar Association (ABA) Mediation Institute and is a sub-committee chair at the ABA Dispute Resolution Section.  She is also a member of the Association of the Bar of the City of New York, The Hampshire Bar Association and the Massachusetts Council on Family Mediation.  Gabrielle is committed to wellness and technological innovation in the divorce space. She serves as advisor to the FAYR co-parenting application.   She is former Court Attorney to Judge Jeffrey Sunshine.    Gabrielle maintains a private law, mediation and coaching practice in Northampton, Massachusetts and in New York City where she offers live and online consultation and mediation.  Work with Gabrielle at gabriellehartley.com.  Links:Gabrielle’s websiteBetter Apart Masterclass - Listeners Use Code BETTER30 for $30 offGabrielle on InstagramGabrielle on LinkedInGabrielle on Facebook Resources:NEW! The Ultimate Divorce Survival GuideShould I Stay or Should I Go Facebook Group

Divorce coach Karen McMahon joins me on the show this week. In 2010, after discovering that the pain of dissolving her marriage had been the very stimulus for her personal transformation, she started Journey Beyond Divorce. Her practice allows her to  help men and women navigate the emotional difficulties of relationships, breakups, and divorce. You must know, I am down with that story. In fact, our coaching styles, beliefs, and teachings are very much aligned, as you’ll hear in this episode.  When you’re going through a divorce there isn’t much that you can control. You can’t control the attorneys, you can’t control the court proceedings, and you certainly can’t control your ex. The one thing you do have control over is you. You can control the decisions you make, the actions you take, how you change your thought patterns, and how you change your behaviors. If you can take that kind of control over your life and your journey, holy shit, that’s powerful. That’s the kind of transformation we are talking about today on the podcast. Life-altering, life-affirming, and deeply transformational changes to help you move beyond divorce with compassion. Afterall, the only way over is through — and it starts with you.   Show Highlights Leaning into the feminine and intuitive guides (6:36) As painful as the divorce journey is, it’s more about us getting to a new place than just getting  to the end of divorce (8:15) Turning “Why does this keep happening to me?” into  “What is it that I continue to do to create and draw this relationship type to me?” (aka falling for the same type of man or woman you just divorced) (9:35) Looking at your part in where you are and where you want to go; it’s not about fault or blame, it’s about personal responsibility (10:11) Karen’s 12-step divorce recovery program to help men and women keep focus on themselves during divorce (12:00) Understanding resistance and suffering during divorce and how to shift away from it (12:13) The many faces of conflict and how to learn to curb the conflict (16:19) What it means to slow a reaction or put space between you and a problem (18:08) Finding the opportunity in the trigger and how to let go of what is not serving you (23:30) The importance of sitting with all the feelings, processing them and releasing them, realizing that grief is not linear and movement through denial (25:42) Success after divorce doesn’t always mean meeting someone new and getting married; instead what if your happiness was not attached to another person? (37:30) Learn More About Karen: Karen’s passion is to help men and women navigate the emotional difficulties of relationships, breakups and divorce. Your work together will open up the possibility that your current relationship challenges can lead to a rewarding voyage of self-discovery and an immensely more pleasing life experience.  Karen founded Journey Beyond Divorce in 2010, after discovering that the pain of dissolving her marriage had been the very stimulus for her personal transformation.  Karen is the mother of two emerging adults, a graduate of the world’s leading coaching institute, Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching (iPEC) and a Certified Member of the International Coaching Federation (ICF).  Karen’s other accomplishments include work as a NYS Lobbyist, Health Advocate, Community Organizer, and Chairperson of a NYS non-profit organization, Director of Sales and Marketing, and successful small business owner.  Links:Karen’s websiteKaren on Facebook Karen on TwitterKaren on LinkedInKaren on Instagram Rapid Relief Call - FREE 1 hour call with one of the coaches on Karen’s team Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast Resources:NEW! The Ultimate Divorce Survival GuideShould I Stay or Should I Go Facebook Group

Dr. Natalie Jones is a licensed professional clinical counselor specializing in helping women overcome abusive relationships with narcissists. I really hate that this is so prevalent in my work, but it is. I also dislike that narcissism and narcissistic abuse take up so much time in my practice. However, they do and I am a true believer that understanding narcissism and how to navigate divorce and later, co-parenting with a narcissist is so very important. And so I have turned to an expert in this for a conversation about all things narcissism. Dr. Jones and I cover many topics related to narcissism including the hallmark characteristics of a narcissist, setting healthy boundaries safely and effectively, and even the ever-puzzling question, “Why do we date or marry the same type of person over and over again?” I’m excited to share our conversation with you. Show Highlights The spectrum of narcissism and hallmark characteristics of a narcissist What it’s like to be in a relationship with a narcissist, being “love bombed,” and not stepping outside of the “bubble” How to set healthy boundaries safely and effectively with a narcissist Things to consider when it comes to safety and leaving How Dr. Jones suggests you approach leaving a partner when kids are involved How to go from being manipulated and controlled, to a person that has solid boundaries Addressing grief of the broken fantasy Why we date or marry the same type of person over and over again and how we can rewrite  our relationship story Tools to help build up self-esteem, looking at inner dialogue, inner critic and inner child Learn More About Dr. Jones: Dr. Natalie Jones, PsyD., LPCC is an Licensed professional clinical counselor and a post doctoral intern. She currently has a private practice called Lifetime Counseling and Consulting in CA where she specializes in working with women who have been in emotionally and psychologically abusive relationships with narcissists, as well as with individuals who were previously incarcerated for various crimes.  Dr. Jones has a podcast called A Date With Darkness Podcast, which specializes in providing education and tips from healing from narcissistic relationships. Dr. Jones received her masters in clinical counseling psychology from the Chicago School of Professional Psychology in Chicago, IL, and her doctorate in clinical psychology from the California School of Professional Psychology in San Francisco, CA. Dr. Jones has also written blogs for the Mind Journal and PsychCentral. Links:Dr. Jones website: https://www.drnataliejones.com Dr. Jones’ social media links Dr. Jones on Instagram   A Date with Darkness Podcast Instagram Dr. Jones on Facebook A Date with Darkness Facebook Page A Date with Darkness Facebook Group Dr. Jones on Twitter A Date with Darkness on Twitter Resources: The Ultimate Divorce Survival Guide Should I Stay or Should I Go Facebook Group

This week’s episode is a companion episode to my last episode with Rebecca Zung (which you can find here). This week Rebecca’s partner, Susan Guthrie, is my guest. Susan is the Chair of the American Bar Association's Mediation Committee and founded, along with Rebecca Zung, Breaking Free Mediation which provides mediation services across the country through an online platform. If you’ve listened to their podcast, Breaking Free: A Modern Divorce Podcast, then you know that Susan and Rebecca are a super badass team of divorce legal professionals. I’m honored to be collaborating with them on our podcasts—and beyond. In this episode, Susan and I dig into mediation and divorce. While we’ve said it before, it’s worth mentioning again: divorce is a time when you are making emotional, financial, family, parenting and other important decisions for your future. You should not be making them in a turmoil of negative emotion, which litigation often brings. With their online mediation platform, Susan and Rebecca bring mindfulness components to the mediation process so that you can think responsibly when making these tough life-impacting decisions. We also discuss the difference between litigation and mediation, what to do if your partner isn’t on board with mediation, and more. While mediation isn’t the only way to do divorce, it can definitely be a better way.  Show Highlights Susan’s experience being a litigator, litigation as the institutional conflict cycle and and why she made the switch to mediation practice (4:11) How mediation differs from litigation and understanding that both parties need to agree to the mediation process (10:49) Why most people avoid mediation and the benefits of virtual mediation (13:00) The importance of going through a cooling off period before deciding between mediation or litigation, plus combining a mindfulness practice with the practice of mediation  (19:00) What to do if you really want to mediate, but your partner won’t agree to it, and how understanding the benefits of mediation may help motivate them (28:30) Walking through the “I want a divorce,” conversation and allowing the other party time to process everything before moving forward (36:00) The mindfulness component of Susan and Rebecca’s Breaking Free Mediation platform (40:29) Susan’s legal coaching practice, what it is and how she helps clients (43:24) Learn More Susan: Susan Guthrie, honored as one of the top family law and mediation attorneys in the country, has been helping families to navigate the process of divorce for 30 years.  She is the current Chair of the American Bar Association's Mediation Committee and founded, along with her business partner and fellow top attorney, Rebecca Zung, Breaking Free Mediation which provides mediation services across the country through an online platform.  They are the first mediation service to offer a mindfulness track for their clients to help them to manage the difficult emotions of divorce. Susan and Rebecca are also the co-hosts of the iTunes Top 10 podcast, Breaking Free: A Modern Divorce Podcast which recently surpassed 1.3 million listens in less than a year and is one of the top divorce podcasts in the world. Links: Divorce in a Better Way Breaking Free: A Modern Divorce Podcast Rebecca and Susan’s Mediation Platform Susan on Instagram Susan on Facebook  Susan on Twitter Susan on YouTube

This week Rebecca Zung, one of the top 1% divorce attorneys in the nation, joins me to talk all about the subtleties of negotiating a divorce. I first met Rebecca, in-person, when recording an interview for Laura Wasser’s podcast, Divorce Sucks. It’s always such a welcomed opportunity whenever I get to meet guests I have on this podcast, in real life.  Ah, divorce negotiations. They can truly suck. How can you get through negotiations with your emotions in check? And also let go of overwhelming thoughts like, “They always get what they want,” or “I’ll never be able to ‘fight’ them for the house (or car or fill in the blank).”  Today, Rebecca walks us through some of the strategies she uses with her own clients to help them successfully negotiate divorce, like negotiating with a narcissist, creating leverage, and using empowering body language. When you can successfully negotiate divorce, you set yourself up for what you want in your divorce, for your children and for your life thereafter. It’s time to stop thinking you have no power at the negotiation table. You, and you alone, define your value. It all starts with you.  Show Highlights What to do when you feel your spouse and his lawyers are more powerful (7:01) Negotiating divorce starts with you, from the inside out (8:13) The divorce paradox: during the most traumatic part of your life, you have to make the toughest decisions (13:00) Dealing with the vulnerability of negotiations whereby you put a ‘value’ on how much you mattered to your spouse based on what you ‘get’ or don’t (15:00) Narcissistic personalities and how to navigate negotiations with them (17:00) Noone ever wins from being spiteful or pushing the buttons of your ex during the divorce process (19:00) Creating leverage in order to aid in you getting what you want (21:00) Passive and disempowering words and phrases, what they are and why you should not use them (24:00) Body language: powerful body language you can use and how to read body language to see if someone might be lying (25:00) Embedded commands, what they are and how you can use them in negotiations (27:48) Preparing for the negotiation process using Rebecca’s acronym M.A.T.T.E.R. (32:00) The different ways men and women keep their emotions in check (34:00) Learn More Rebecca Zung: Rebecca Zung is one of the Top 1% of divorce attorneys in the nation, having been recognized by U.S. News & World Report as a “Best Lawyer in America”, as “Legal Elite” by Trend Magazine, and recognized by her peers and the judiciary as AV©, preeminent rated in family law, the highest possible rating for an attorney by Martindale Hubbell.  She is the author of the bestselling book Breaking Free: A Step-by-Step Divorce Guide for Achieving Emotional, Physical, and Spiritual Freedom, and is a sought after major media contributor. Her perspectives are in high demand by television and print outlets, as she has been featured in or on Extra TV, Forbes, Huffington Post, Newsweek, Time, Dr. Drew, NPR Talk Radio, Good Day New York and CBS Los Angeles among others.   Now, based in Los Angeles, she is continuing to serve the divorcing population through her keynote speeches on negotiation called “Have It Your Way: Successfully Negotiate What You Want in Life and Business”. Links:Grab your Free Negotiation worksheet, courtesy of Rebecca Rebecca’s podcastRebecca on FacebookRebecca on InstagramRebecca’s YouTube ChannelRebecca on LinkedInFred Rogers Addresses the Senate“Should I Stay or Should I Go? with Divorce Coach and Podcast Host, Kate Anthony” on Breaking Free: A Modern Divorce Podcast #156