

Leading Complexity
Crisp
This video podcast brings together Agile, Systems Thinking, Complexity Thinking, and Product Models in a way that’s easy to understand. In each episode, we explore innovative strategies with leading experts in leadership. Join us to learn how to help your organization thrive and lead in today’s fast-changing, complex, and highly competitive world.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jan 21, 2025 • 20min
#23 - Teresa Torres
In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe dive into a thought-provoking conversation with Teresa Torres, a product discovery coach known for her Opportunity Solution Tree. Together, they explore key concepts around product discovery, including the importance of framing problems from multiple perspectives and comparing solutions to make better decisions. As they listen to Teresa's insights, Tomas and Michael clarify and highlight critical moments from the interview, offering their own reflections on complex decision-making and the challenges of product development. Join them for a deeper understanding of how to navigate complexity and drive smarter outcomes in your organization.

Dec 17, 2024 • 37min
#22 - Interview with Jurriaan Kamer (part 2)
In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe continue their conversation with Jurriaan Kamer, author of Unblock. Jurriaan shares insights on fostering a culture of ownership within organizations, offering practical advice on how to empower teams through autonomy and emotional investment. They explore the challenges of decision-making, teamwork, and effective meetings, emphasizing the importance of creating environments that allow people to truly collaborate. Tune in to learn how to unblock potential and lead teams towards greater innovation and efficiency in today's complex business landscape.

Dec 10, 2024 • 29min
#21 - Interview with Jurriaan Kamer
In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe dive into the world of organizational unblocking with Jurriaan Kamer, co-author of Formula X and Unblock. Jurriaan shares insights on how to identify and remove the barriers that hinder organizational flow, drawing inspiration from Formula 1 to achieve speed and agility.
Discover how leaders can transition from being traffic cops to road designers, fostering thriving organizations that adapt and excel in complexity. The conversation explores practical strategies for overcoming common blockers like ineffective strategy and outdated steering mechanisms, while also reflecting on the state of Agile and its integration into organizational DNA.
This is Part 1 of the interview, with the second half coming next week. Don’t miss this thought-provoking discussion about creating a culture of continuous improvement and unlocking true agility in your organization.

Dec 3, 2024 • 24min
#20 - Interview with Bjarte Bogsnes
In this episode of Leading Complexity, Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe sit down with Bjarte Bogsnes, the pioneer behind Beyond Budgeting, to explore how organizations can move beyond traditional financial governance. Together, they unpack Bjarte’s insights on creating more human and adaptive organizations, addressing the pitfalls of conventional management models, and fostering true business agility. Join the conversation as the hosts clarify key principles of Beyond Budgeting and highlight practical steps for navigating today’s complex and fast-changing business environment.

Nov 26, 2024 • 22min
#19 - Interview with Mary Poppendieck
In episode 19 of the Leading Complexity Podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe engage in an insightful conversation with Mary Poppendieck, co-author of four influential books on Lean software development. Mary shares her wisdom on how leaders can navigate complexity, describing it as a “silent killer” that clogs the flow of business like cholesterol.
The discussion delves into identifying and eliminating “bad complexity,” which customers won’t pay for, while leveraging “good complexity” to create differentiation. Mary highlights practical strategies for managing excessive demand, including focusing on customer outcomes, creating a steady flow of work, and avoiding multitasking by doing one thing at a time.

Nov 19, 2024 • 20min
#18 - Interview with Stephen Bungay
In episode 18 of the Leading Complexity Podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe engage with Stephen Bungay, strategist, author, and expert on strategy execution, best known for his book The Art of Action. Throughout the conversation, Tomas and Michael highlight and clarify key concepts, as Stephen unpacks his framework for bridging the gap between strategy and execution, especially in complex and unpredictable environments. This episode dives into Stephen’s insights on the “three gaps” that hinder strategic alignment and the importance of setting a clear direction instead of rigid plans. Leaders will gain valuable perspectives on creating adaptive strategies, fostering clarity, and empowering teams to think critically and act decisively in uncertain conditions. Tune in for practical guidance on leading effectively in today’s dynamic world.

Nov 12, 2024 • 37min
#17 - Interview with Matthew Skelton
In episode 17 of the Leading Complexity Podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe sit down with Matthew Skelton, co-author of Team Topologies. This insightful conversation delves into how organizations can adapt in today’s complex and fast-evolving environment. Tomas and Michael guide listeners through key parts of the interview, highlighting Skelton’s expertise on team structures, organizational agility, and managing emergent complexity. They explore the strategies for fostering effective collaboration, and the pitfalls of traditional management practices. This episode is perfect for leaders looking to reshape their organizations for greater adaptability and resilience.

Nov 5, 2024 • 35min
#16 - Interview with Petra Wille
In this episode, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe engage with Petra Wille, renowned product leadership coach and author of "Strong Product People" and "Strong Product Communities". Through a compelling discussion, they dive into Petra’s insights on what makes product management “the best job on the planet” and the essential elements for building a resilient product culture. Tomas and Michael unpack Petra’s views on the product operating model, community of practice, and the importance of fostering psychological safety within teams. Listeners will gain valuable perspectives on balancing user value with business viability, creating adaptive operating models, and fostering a culture of continuous learning and innovation. Petra also shares strategies for effective risk mitigation and hiring for “culture add” to support long-term growth. Tune in to discover practical approaches for shaping high-performing product teams and driving meaningful change in complex environments.

Oct 29, 2024 • 24min
#15 - Interview with Jos de Blok
In this episode of "Leading Complexity", Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe dive into an inspiring conversation with Jos de Blok, founder and CEO of Buurtzorg, a groundbreaking community care organization from the Netherlands. Known for its revolutionary self-organizing model, Buurtzorg has transformed healthcare by empowering nurses to deliver personalized care free from complex bureaucracy. Tomas and Michael not only guide the discussion, but also add insights and reflections, highlighting key aspects of Jos’s approach to leadership and his philosophy of “humanity over bureaucracy.” They explore Buurtzorg’s rise from a small team of four nurses to an organization of over 15,000, its unconventional approach to management, and how a patient-centered model can drive positive social change. Tune in to discover how Jos’s journey offers a compelling vision for simplifying organizational structures and achieving success through empowered, self-managing teams.

Oct 22, 2024 • 22min
#14 - Interview with Joe Justice
In this episode of the Leading Complexity podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm
and Michael Göthe interview Joe Justice, a pioneer in Agile hardware
development. Joe has led Agile practices at major companies such as
Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Boeing, Tesla, and Toyota, and he founded
Wikispeed, a car manufacturing company focused on creating the most
energy-efficient road-legal car. In the interview, Joe shares his
insights on reducing complexity to accelerate innovation, drawing on his
experience with Tesla and SpaceX. Tomas and Michael highlight key
points from the discussion, offering further explanations and
reflections on the importance of simplicity, speed of innovation, and
leadership in complex environments. Tune in to gain practical lessons on
leading in fast-paced, high-tech industries.


