Leading Saints Podcast

This is a follow-up conversation. Listen to the first episode here. Jeff Strong worked nearly 30 years in the consumer products industry as a senior executive at Procter & Gamble and global president and chief customer officer at Johnson & Johnson. He then taught in the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University and worked as an advisor to the Church before serving as a mission leader in the Arkansas Bentonville Mission. Jeff has since spent several years doing research on why people are leaving the Church. While not a professional researcher, his career involved a large amount of research and the research he shares in this podcast was done with the help of some of the top Latter-day Saint researchers in the world. Today, Jeff lives in Midway, Utah, and stays busy with a little lavender farm, some business consulting, and enjoying family. Links Slides: Tension From Our Differences When Clapping Happens at Church | A How I Lead Interview with Devin Pope Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights Jeff Strong dives deeper into the complexities of faith and community. He explores the idea that while many church leaders may come from a similar mindset, the diversity of perspectives within the congregation is essential for a healthy community. Jeff shares insights from a comprehensive study on disaffiliation and church experiences, highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of the church culture. He notes that while many members appreciate the community, service, and spiritual growth offered by the church, there are significant concerns about judgment, conformity, and exclusivity that can alienate individuals with differing beliefs or backgrounds. Jeff and Kurt talk about the tension caused by differences, and Jeff illustrates how the natural human response to perceived threats often leads to conformity and exclusion. He discusses the importance of yielding to the Holy Spirit to navigate these tensions, rather than allowing fear to dictate responses. A key part of the episode is the introduction of a segmentation model that categorizes Latter-day Saints into six belief mindsets: Seekers, Cultivators, Protectors, Avoiders, Connectors, and Explorers. Each segment is defined by its unique values and priorities, with Protectors making up a significant portion of church leadership. Jeff and Kurt discuss the implications of this model, emphasizing that a church comprised solely of one segment would lack the richness and diversity necessary for a thriving community. Understanding these different mindsets can help church leaders foster a more inclusive environment that accommodates a broader range of beliefs and experiences. Jeff encourages listeners to embrace the complexities of faith and community, recognizing that the presence of tension can lead to growth and deeper understanding. 00:02:00 - Discussion on disaffiliation from the church 00:02:00 - Tension caused by differences 00:09:00 - Story of the kingfisher and magpies 00:12:00 - Strengths of church culture 00:14:00 - Weaknesses of church culture 00:21:00 - The concept of the "natural man" 00:26:00 - The role of a leader in navigating tension 00:30:00 - Introduction of six mindsets or "segments" 00:36:00 - The "Seekers" segment 00:37:00 - The "Cultivators" segment 00:38:00 - The "Protectors" segment 00:39:00 - The "Avoiders" segment 00:40:00 - The "Connectors" segment 00:42:00 - The "Explorers" segment 00:44:00 - The value of different segments 00:46:00 - Disconnect in leadership 00:48:00 - Historical context of leadership 00:52:00 - Blending leadership styles 01:04:00 - Jesus and Joseph Smith as examples of different mindsets 01:13:00 - Discussion of the Body of Christ from 1 Corinthians 12 01:23:00 - Story of a 100-year-old runner 01:33:00 - Concluding thoughts on a thriving church

James Fletcher is the founder and chief investment officer of Ethos Investment Management, and has been investing professionally in emerging markets for 20 years. He is also the founder of the global non-profit Young Investors Society, which provides lessons to teens on investing and financial literacy in over 3,000 high schools and 80 countries around the world. James has a bachelor's degree in Finance from Brigham Young University and also teaches as a BYU adjunct professor in Finance. He has lived in a variety of places, from Boston to Brazil and Los Angeles to Hong Kong, and currently lives in Springville, Utah, with his wife and five children, where he serves as a bishop in the Hobble Creek Springville Utah Stake. Links Young Investors Society: YIS.org Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights James Fletcher shares his insights and experiences as a bishop and youth leader. He shares his approach to engaging with youth, highlighting the advice he received to focus on them while allowing other leaders to manage adult responsibilities. He discusses his passion for working with young people, which has been shaped by his background in youth mentorship and his founding of the Young Investor Society, an organization that teaches financial literacy and investment principles to high school students. James emphasizes the importance of setting high expectations for youth while providing the necessary support and mentorship. He also discusses the significance of creating engaging and interactive experiences for youth, rather than simply delivering lessons. He shares how challenging youth with high expectations can lead to remarkable growth and engagement, citing examples from both his church leadership and his work with the Young Investor Society. 00:04:04 - First Impressions of Being a Bishop James shares his experiences and feelings during the first months of his calling as bishop. 00:05:16 - Unique Ward Dynamics Discussion about the unique characteristics of James's ward in Springville, Utah, including its diverse community. 00:06:57 - Approach to Engaging Youth James explains his focus on youth and how he prioritizes their needs in his leadership role. 00:07:54 - Background in Youth Engagement James discusses his history of working with youth and the founding of the Young Investor Society. 00:09:37 - Weekly Engagement with Youth Insights into James's weekly activities and how he applies principles of mentorship and engagement with youth. 00:11:06 - Measuring Success as a Bishop James shares advice on how to judge success in his role, emphasizing spiritual guidance. 00:12:00 - Personal Story of Mentorship James recounts a meaningful experience with a young man named Zach and the impact of mentorship. 00:14:23 - Principles for Working with Youth James discusses key principles for engaging and inspiring youth, including setting high expectations. 00:18:47 - Interactive Learning Experiences The importance of interactive and challenging experiences for youth to keep them engaged. 00:21:10 - High Expectations and Support James elaborates on the balance of high expectations and providing support to youth. 00:23:01 - Recognizing and Nurturing Gifts The significance of helping youth recognize their gifts and potential. 00:30:54 - Real Love and Genuine Support James emphasizes the importance of showing genuine love and support to youth in leadership. 00:36:21 - Young Investor Society Overview Information about the Young Investor Society and how it supports youth in financial literacy. The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Dr. Benjamin Hardy is an organizational psychologist, author, and speaker known for his work on the psychology of exponential growth and transformation. He has mastered a highly unique form of strategic psychology and is known for his ability to rapidly scale companies to seemingly impossible levels. The author of several books and cofounder of his rigorous scaling company, Scaling.com, Benjamin helps companies scale 10x or more within three years. His innovative psychological and strategic frameworks are unlike anything else in business right now and are seeking to disrupt both the fields of psychology and business. Benjamin and his wife Lauren have seven children and live in Orlando. Links The Science of Scaling: Grow Your Business Bigger and Faster Than You Think Possible Scaling.com/Audiobook Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights Benjamin introduces the idea that setting ambitious goals can lead to more effective pathways for growth. He explains that when organizations aim for significantly higher targets—such as a tenfold increase in growth—they are compelled to streamline their efforts and eliminate unnecessary complexities. This principle is particularly relevant for church leaders who may feel constrained by traditional metrics of success. Benjamin emphasizes the importance of aligning daily actions with a higher purpose. He discusses the concept of "raising the floor," which refers to the necessity of letting go of lower standards and practices that no longer serve the organization's goals. By doing so, leaders can create a more focused and effective environment for achieving their objectives. The conversation also delves into the psychological aspects of goal-setting, highlighting how the future should shape present actions rather than being dictated by past performance. He shares a compelling story about an audacious missionary baptism goal and how adjusting adjusting and filtering ultimately achieved the goal—illustrating the power of high aspirations and the need for leaders to be willing to say no to less-impactful activities. Benjamin explores the challenges church leaders face in maintaining focus amidst competing priorities and discusses the tendency to add more initiatives rather than simplifying and prioritizing efforts. He encourages leaders to define clear, measurable goals that can guide their actions and decision-making processes, along with a call to embrace ambitious goals. By focusing on fewer, higher goals and raising their standards, leaders can unlock the potential within their wards and organizations, ultimately leading to greater success in their missions. 00:04:00 - Applying Scaling Principles to the Church 00:05:20 - The Goal Shapes the Path and System 00:05:50 - The Power of 10x Goals and Short Timelines 00:08:40 - Missionary Work as an Example of Scaling 00:10:50 - The Past and Future as Lenses for the Present 00:14:10 - Operating From the Goal, Not Toward It 00:14:40 - Raising the Floor and Saying No 00:15:30 - Blake's Missionary Experience and Filtering 00:19:40 - Overcoming the Influence of the Past in Organizations 00:21:50 - Simplicity vs. Complexity 00:23:10 - The Challenge of Too Many Goals in Church Councils 00:24:50 - Focusing on Key Priorities in Leadership 00:28:00 - Defining and Owning Roles in Church Leadership 00:28:50 - Understanding and Raising the Floor 00:31:30 - The Floor as a Standard of Accountability 00:33:30 - Avoiding Guilt from Too Many To-Dos 00:36:10 - Setting Clear, Numeric Goals 00:40:20 - The Future Shapes the Present 00:42:50 - Repentance and Reorienting Towards the Future 00:44:50 - Distancing from Past Self and Growth Mindset 00:48:50 - Measuring Impact and Qualitative vs. Quantitative Goals 00:53:00 - Accountability in Systems and Leadership

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally aired in March 2021. Clint Pulver is an Emmy Award-winning, motivational keynote speaker, author, musician, and workforce expert. The president and founder of The Center for Employee Retention, Clint has transformed how corporations create lasting loyalty through his work and research as “The Undercover Millennial”. His book I Love It Here shares how extraordinary leaders create companies their people never want to leave, and in this interview he helps translate some of that wisdom into local leadership in the Church. Clint is currently serving as a bishop. Links I Love It Here: How Great Leaders Create Organizations Their People Never Want to Leave clintpulver.com Instagram @clintpulver Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 4:40 Writing a book with lots of research was a difficult project 7:35 Culture changes in different wards come down to leadership 9:00 Engagement is low due to the pandemic but we can change some things even now 10:20 "Let me know when it gets to the part about me": getting to the people in the gospel is what builds a stronger culture 13:25 Give them a reason to connect with you; make the little efforts to connect with people 15:30 "Who said the guy wanted a fish?" Ask people what they want; do more listening than talking 17:30 Traditional leadership vs. mentorship and personal connection 19:30 Four types of leaders The leader who is removed The buddy The controller The mentor 24:15 Do you have the right people in the right places? 27:25 When inviting someone to a calling, make an invitation, talk about the expectations, and look for some buy-in 31:10 Status interviews and the power of meeting regularly Not a performance review Three questions: What can we do to keep you more engaged? What's getting in the way of your success? What can I do to help you get there? 35:15 Start with a check-in and vocal praise 37:00 Repeat back so they know they were heard and understood Follow up on what you said you would do Create a growth development plan with them Invoke the help of other people and make it simpler for you 40:00 Core values and a vision: keep it simple and memorable 42:30 Reflective questions Be open to feedback The to-don't list 47:35 Story of the business leader who was open and vulnerable, leading to a sense of ownership for her employees 51:00 Look for inspiration through association and connection with other people 53:00 What do you offer that Google can't? 54:20 "I love who I am when I'm here" The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Monica Tanner, an RLT-trained relationship coach and host of the 'Secrets of Happily Ever After' podcast, shares powerful insights to transform marriages. She emphasizes the crucial role of communication, dispelling myths like 'happy couples never fight.' The conversation explores the stigma around seeking help, especially in the Latter-day Saint community, and challenges outdated marriage advice. Monica advocates for conflict resolution and understanding the dynamics of relationships, equipping couples with tools for greater connection and satisfaction.

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in September 2019. Frank Layden was a beloved basketball coach and executive best known for his time with the Utah Jazz. While he achieved tremendous professional success—earning NBA Coach of the Year, Executive of the Year, and the J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award all in 1984—it was his warmth, humor, and larger-than-life personality that truly defined him. Known for his self-deprecating wit and quick one-liners, Layden brought levity to the game and was deeply respected by players, colleagues, and fans alike. Beyond basketball, Layden was cherished for his kindness, community involvement, and ability to connect with people on a personal level. He had a gift for making others feel valued, often using laughter to lift those around him. Even in retirement, he remained a vibrant part of the Salt Lake City community. Frank Layden passed away on July 9, 2025, at the age of 93, leaving behind a legacy of leadership and compassion. Links Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights Early Experiences & Utah Transition 00:03:34 Involvement with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; reflections on what President Thomas S. Monson said about him 00:05:24 How he ended up in Utah with the Jazz 00:09:03 First knowledge of and interactions with members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 00:10:15 Approach to sports and Utah’s culture: “What can we do to help here?” Focused on building relationships over highlighting differences. Personal and Professional Philosophy 00:12:44 How he became a coach - Belief that his family was meant to be in Utah - Building the Jazz from a losing team into a contender - Perspective on success: You won’t always succeed, and shouldn’t measure success by money. Prioritize doing what you love and service. 00:17:48 The Jazz’s efforts to help players and their families grow off the court: - Wives club activities: fashion shows, making Christmas trees, supporting education - Interfaith chapel service with Rev. France Davis and Pastor Jerry Lewis - Bonuses for players who finished college degrees Leadership & Team Management 00:20:10 When players feel coaches support them, they give their all. 00:22:37 Emphasis on making each player feel loved; daily question: “What can I do for you today?” 00:24:58 The importance of small things: punctuality, readiness, balancing authority and discipline 00:28:20 Players must believe in you, and you must believe in yourself. - Understanding who needs motivation vs. encouragement 00:32:47 Establishing leadership: the team must know who leads - “Winning is not a sometimes thing; it starts the first day of practice.” Relationship-Building & Daily Culture 00:39:42 Building one-on-one connections with players - Creating comfort for players to approach leadership - Listening to them (examples include book club and shared reading) - Encouraging professional appearance - Mutual respect and adult treatment fosters loyalty 00:42:50 Players can sense if you enjoy your job. Reflection on Faith & Community 00:48:22 How being part of Utah’s religious community enhanced his experience as a Catholic 00:53:04 Takeaways and Leadership Principles The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish,

Dan Duckworth, a leadership expert and author of the forthcoming book, 'The Leader in Chains', delves into the concept of Zion and its role in leadership within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He challenges conventional views on authority, advocating for a leadership vocabulary rooted in scripture. Dan addresses the discomfort with transformational leadership among church members and emphasizes that Zion is not just a distant ideal but a community of unity that can be achieved today. His insights inspire listeners to rethink leadership dynamics and foster collaboration.

Angela Sturgeon, Indiana's Stake Primary president and a former flight attendant, shares her inspiring journey of leadership and resilience. She candidly discusses overcoming challenges in her role, emphasizing the importance of empathy and community support. Angela explores the significance of embracing diversity within church leadership and fostering connections through shared experiences. With a focus on empowering children, she highlights innovative initiatives that encourage young leaders and strengthen community ties, all while deepening her own spiritual connection.

Dive into the unwritten principles of church leadership and the importance of teaching foundational concepts clearly. Explore how experiential learning enriches leadership dynamics and why understanding both written and unwritten doctrines is crucial. Discover the pivotal role of bishops in meetings and how maintaining order can inspire spiritual growth. The insights from seasoned leaders and the necessity of dignified conduct during gatherings will leave you reflecting on the power of community in guiding faith.

Kurt Francom dives into the intriguing concept of the 'unwritten order of things', highlighting its origins and influence on church leadership. He urges leaders to critically evaluate informal norms instead of blindly following them. The discussion navigates the historical context of these unwritten rules and their relevance today, prompting listeners to reconsider traditional practices. Kurt also stresses the need for clarity and local adaptation in leadership to foster a more effective and inclusive community.