Longform

Lisa Brennan-Jobs is a New York-based writer. Her new book Small Fry is about her childhood and her relationship with her father, Steve Jobs. "You find yourself in a whole net, in a constellation of stories, each one connecting to another. It was amazing how much I remembered. Sometimes I meet people and they say, goodness, I can’t even remember what I had for lunch. How can you remember so much? And I think, oh, sit down for a while writing badly and you will remember and remember and remember. Some things weren’t terribly pleasant to remember. And some things were incredibly wonderful." Thanks to MailChimp, Under My Skin, Skagen, Sleeping Beauty Dreams, and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @LisaBrennanJobs Brennan-Jobs on Longform [1:35] Small Fry (Grove Press • 2018) [48:55] "Growing Up Jobs" (Vanity Fair • Sep 2018) [49:00] "In ‘Small Fry,’ Steve Jobs Comes Across as a Jerk. His Daughter Forgives Him. Should We?" (Nellie Bowles • The New York Times • Aug 2018) [56:15] Steve Jobs (Walter Isaacson • Simon & Schuster • 2011) [56:20] Steve Jobs (Aaron Sorkin • Universal Pictures • 2015) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Liana Finck writes for The New Yorker. Her new book is Passing for Human: A Graphic Memoir. "I was drawing since I was 10 months old. My mom had left this vibrant community of architects and art people to live in this idyllic country setting with my dad, and she poured all of her art feelings into me. She really praised me for being this baby genius, which I may or may not have been. But I grew up thinking I was an amazing artist. There weren’t any other artists around besides my mom, so I didn’t have anything to compare it to. There were no art classes around. … I was so shy, so I was just always drawing and making things." Thanks to MailChimp, Lean In podcast, Under My Skin, Skagen, Squarespace, Sleeping Beauty Dreams, and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @lianafinck [2:10]Finck's archive at The New Yorker [2:15]Finck on Instagram [2:25]Passing for Human: A Graphic Memoir (Random House • 2018) [3:20] "The Silk Road's Dark-Web Dream Is Dead" (Andy Greenburg • Wired • Jan 2016) [3:25] "The Untold Story of NotPetya, the Most Devastating Cyberattack in History" (Andy Greenburg • Wired • Aug 2018) [13:40] "What I Miss: A List" (Catapult • Apr 2018) [43:05] Very Semi-Serious (The New Yorker • 2015) [53:00] "Dear Pepper: Airport Pickups, Where to Live, and Departed Dogs" (The New Yorker • Aug 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rebecca Traister is a writer at New York. Her new book is Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women's Anger. “I don’t want my experience to be held up as so, ladies, your new health regimen is rage all day. Because the fact is we live in a world that does punish women for expressing their anger, that denies them jobs, that attaches to them bad reputations as difficult-to-work-with, crazy bitches. Because they’re reasonably angry about something they have every reason to be angry about. We live in a world in which black women’s anger is either caricatured and they get written off as cartoons, or regarded as threats and face steep, often physical penalties for expressing dissent or dissatisfaction. When I talk about this, I don’t mean it to be prescriptive, I mean it to be descriptive of a particular experience I had that was extraordinarily unusual but which made me question a premise that I think all of us internalize that the anger is bad for us. I no longer believe that that’s true.” Thanks to MailChimp, Skagen, Under My Skin, and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @rtraister Traister on Longform [2:30] Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women's Anger (Rebecca Traister • 2018) [7:55] "What a Good Boy" (The Cut • Sep 2018) [26:50]Traister's archive at Observer [29:05]Traister's archive at Salon [32:50] "Hillary Clinton Didn’t Shatter the Glass Ceiling. This Is What Broke Instead." (The Cut • Nov 2016) [35:50] "Michelle Obama Gets Real" (Salon • Nov 2007) [38:55] Big Girls Don't Cry: The Election that Changed Everything for American Women (Free Press • 2011) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jerry Saltz is a Pulitzer-winning art critic for New York. “To this day I wake up early and I have to get to my desk to write almost immediately. I mean fast. Before the demons get me. I got to get writing. And once I’ve written almost anything, I’ll pretty much write all day, I don’t leave my desk, I have no other life. I’m not part of the world except when I go to see shows.” Thanks to MailChimp, TapeACall, The Dream, Squarespace, and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @jerrysaltz Saltz on Instagram Saltz on Longform [2:35] Saltz's archive at New York Magazine [12:50] Jerry Saltz YOUNG-HOFFMAN GALLERY AND N.A.M.E. GALLERY (Art Forum Magazine • Dec 1977) [1:01:35] Saltz's archive at The Village Voice Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Eli Saslow is a Pulitzer-winning feature writer for the Washington Post. His new book is Rising Out of Hatred: The Awakening of a Former White Nationalist. “If I'm writing about somebody once for 5,000 words in the Washington Post — someone who's addicted to drugs, say — I am choosing in the public eye where their story ends. Like, that's it. People aren't going to know any more. That's where I'm going to leave them being written about. And of course, that is inherently artificial — nothing ends, their life is continuing. This is just where the narrative ends. I recognize the weight in ways that maybe I didn’t before.” Thanks to MailChimp, Outside the Box, Squarespace, and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @elisaslow Saslow on Longform Longform Podcast #57: Eli Saslow Saslow's Washington Post archive [1:20] Rising Out of Hatred: The Awakening of a Former White Nationalist (Doubleday • 2018) [18:00] ‘It Was My Job, and I Didn’t Find Him’: Stoneman Douglas Resource Officer Remains Haunted by Massacre (Washington Post • Jun 2018) [25:55] The White Flight of Derek Black (Washington Post • Oct 2016) [33:20] Gun Violence’s Distant Echo (Washington Post • May 2016) [48:15] ‘You’re One of Us Now' (Washington Post • Aug 2015) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jeanne Marie Laskas writes for GQ and the New York Times Magazine. Her new book is To Obama: With Love, Joy, Anger, and Hope. “I hate saying this out loud, but it’s true: I’m really shy. Fundamentally, I'm 100% scared most of the time. I’m scared and wondering how I can not be noticed because I don’t know what to say and I’m shy. If you say I’m a good listener, that's why … I become more invisible so I’m more comfortable.” Thanks to MailChimp, Techmeme Ride Home Podcast, and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @jmlaskas Longform Podcast #9: Jeanne Marie Laskas Laskas on Longform jeannemarielaskas.com [2:10] Concussion (Random House • 2015) [2:20] To Obama: With Love, Joy, Anger, and Hope (Random House • 2018) [2:30] "To Obama With Love, and Hate, and Desperation" (New York Times Magazine • Jan 2017) [23:20] "Have You Heard the One About President Joe Biden?" (GQ • Jul 2013) [43:20] "Guns 'R Us" (GQ • Aug 2012) [43:25] "Inside the Federal Bureau Of Way Too Many Guns" (GQ • Aug 2016) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Elif Batuman is a novelist and a staff writer at The New Yorker. Her latest article is “Japan’s Rent-a-Family Industry.” “I hear novelists say things sometimes like the character does something they don’t expect. It’s like talking to people who have done ayahuasca or belong to some cult. That’s how I felt about it until extremely recently. All of these people have drunk some kind of Kool Aid where they’re like, ‘I’m in this trippy zone where characters are doing things.’ And I would think to myself, if they were men—Wow, this person has devised this really ingenious way to avoid self-knowledge. If they were women, I would think—Wow, this woman has found an ingenious way to become complicit in her own bullying and silencing. It’s only kind of recently—and with a lot of therapy actually—that I’ve come to see that there is a mode of fiction that I can imagine participating in where, once I’ve freed myself of a certain amount of stuff I feel like I have to write about, which has gotten quite large by this point, it would be fun to make things up and play around.” Thanks to MailChimp, Google Play, and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @BananaKarenina Batuman on Longform Batuman's archive at The New Yorker Batuman's archive at Harper's Batuman's archive at London Review of Books [1:00] “Japan’s Rent-a-Family Industry” (The New Yorker • Apr 2018) [10:00] The Possessed: Adventures with Russian Books and the People Who Read Them (Farrar, Straus and Giroux • 2010) [10:00] The Demons (Fyodor Dostoevsky • The Russian Messenger • 1812) [11:00] The Idiot (Penguin Book • 2017) [14:00] Factual Fictions: The Origins of the English Novel (Lennard Davis • Columbia University Press • 1983) [20:00] The Exception (Christian Jungersen • Anchor • 2008) [21:00] The End of the Story: A Novel (Lydia Davis • Picador • 2004) [27:00] Culture and Imperialism (Edward Said • Vintage • 1994) [28:00] Either/Or: A Fragment of Life (Soren Kierkegaard • Victor Eremita • 1843) [29:00] Scrivener Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jon Caramanica is a music writer at The New York Times. “I like to interview people very early in their careers or very late in their careers. I think vulnerability and willingness to be vulnerable is at a peak in those two parts. Young enough not to know better, old enough not to give a damn. … The story I want to tell is—how are you this person, and then you became this? Then at the end, let’s look back on these things and let’s paint the art together. But in the middle when your primary obsession is how do I protect my role? How do I keep my spot? How do I keep the throne? I’m not as interested in that personally as a journalist or as a critic. ” Thanks to MailChimp, Read This Summer, Google Play, and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @joncaramanica Caramanica on Longform [3:35] "The Education of Kanye West" (New York Times • Aug 2007) [4:00] Caramanica's archive at The New York Times [4:05] Popcast [13:30] "Pitched to Perfection: Pop Star's Silent Partner" (New York Times • Jun 2012) [25:45] "Two SoundCloud Rap Outlaws Push Boundaries From the Fringes" (New York Times • Mar 2018) [28:45] "Dick Cavett in the Digital Age" (Alex Williams • New York Times • Aug 2018) [28:55] "Hip-Hop’s Elders and Youth Go to Battle (Again)" (New York Times • Jan 2017) [34:10] "Into the Wild With Kanye West" (New York Times • Jun 2018) [57:10] "Post Malone and Rae Sremmurd, Hip-Hop Impressionists Shaping the Stream" (New York Times • May 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jeff Maysh is a freelance writer based in Los Angeles. His latest article is "How an Ex-Cop Rigged McDonald’s Monopoly Game and Stole Millions." “I’ve always looked for stories with the theme of identity and identity theft. I’m very interested in people leading double lives. All of my stories are the same in a sense. Whether that’s a spy or a fake cheerleader or a bank robber or even a wrestler, someone is pretending to be someone they’re not, leading a double life. I find that really exciting. I’m drawn to characters who put on a disguise.” Thanks to MailChimp, Read This Summer, Google Play, Pitt Writers, and Coin Talk for sponsoring this week's episode. @jeffmaysh Maysh on Longform jeffmaysh.com [1:15] "The Half-Time Hero" (Howler • Sep 2013) [1:45] "How an Ex-Cop Rigged McDonald’s Monopoly Game and Stole Millions" (The Daily Beast • Jul 2017) [6:20] "A Catfishing With a Happy Ending" (The Atlantic • Oct 2017) [19:55] "America Is Bull" (Jeanne Marie Laskas • Esquire • Jan 2007) [27:55] Epic Magazine [29:50] "Behind Hollywood’s A-List Bidding War for a McDonald’s Monopoly Article" (Chris Lee • Vulture • Aug 2018) [30:30] "Elizabeth Banks To Star In & Produce Paramount Players Pic On The Day A Wyoming Hotel Maid Won A Dream Date With Prince" (Mike Flemming Jr. • Deadline • Aug 2018) [38:25] "The Cop Who Became a Robber" (Los Angeles Magazine • Aug 2017) [39:35] The Spy With No Name (Kindle Singles • 2018) [40:30] "The Rise and Fall of the Bombshell Bandit" (BBC News • Apr 2015) [49:45] "The Long Fall of One-Eleven Heavy" (Michael Paterniti • Esquire • Jun 2009) [50:30] "Murder House" (Medium • Sep 2015) [53:35] "The Counterfeit Queen of Soul" (Smithsonian Magazine • Jul 2018) [57:55] "The Scarface of Sex: The Millionaire Playboy Who Murdered His Way to the Top of Porn" (Daily Beast • Jun 2017) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David Marchese is the interviewer for New York's "In Conversation" series. "The thing I like about doing long interviews with people is that each one feels like a totally unique experience to me. It’s not like I go into an interview and already know the arc of the story I’m going to tell, and I’m going to just fill that in the best I can. I have ideas of what to talk about and what the conversation might entail, but it does feel like I’m starting at zero and the conversation can go anywhere.” Thanks to MailChimp, Read This Summer, Google Play, and Pitt Writers for sponsoring this week's episode. @david_marchese Marchese on Longform [2:40] Marchese on Vulture [3:30] Marchese on Salon [3:35] Marchese on Spin [6:40] "In Conversation: John Oliver" (Vulture • Feb 2016) [7:00] "In Conversation: Louis C.K." (Vulture • Jun 2016) [7:10] "In Conversation: David Letterman" (Vulture • Mar 2017) [8:10] "In Conversation: Julian Casablancas" (Vulture • Mar 2018) [12:10] "In Conversation: Jeff Goldblum" (Vulture • Jun 2018) [12:35] "In Conversation: Billy Joel" (Vulture • Jul 2018) [16:00] "The Billy Joel Essays: Essays from Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs" (Chuck Klosterman • Scribner • Jul 2018) [17:35] "In Conversation: Kathleen Turner" (Vulture • Aug 2018) [35:40] "In Conversation: Dave Matthews" (Vulture • May 2018) [45:15] "The SPIN Interview: Lou Reed" (Spin • Nov 2008) [50:30] "In Conversation: Quincey Jones" (Vulture • Feb 2018) [50:45] "In Conversation: John Cleese" (Vulture • Sep 2017) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices