
Changelog Interviews
Conversations with the hackers, leaders, and innovators of the software world. Adam Stacoviak and Jerod Santo face their imposter syndrome so you don’t have to. Expect in-depth interviews with the best and brightest in software engineering, open source & leadership. This is a polyglot podcast. All programming languages, platforms & communities are welcome.
Latest episodes

Oct 5, 2023 • 1h 12min
Tauri’s next big move
This week we’re joined by Daniel Thompson, Co-founder and Core Member of Tauri. It’s been a year since we last had Daniel on the show. He catches us up on all things Tauri, their continued efforts towards Tauri 1.5 (which just released), the launch of CrabNebula and how they’re the people pushing the Tauri ecosystem forward and building on top of it, the state of Electron vs Tauri, and UI with Tauri. He even surprises us with his idea of creating a web browser.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 4 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Get $100 towards your error monitoring with Sentry! Use the code changelog.
.Tech Domains – They’re giving selected startups guest spots on the biggest podcasts, conferences, and billboards in the tech game. Apply at startups.tech/changelog
Neo4j – NODES 2023 is coming in October!
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Featuring:Daniel Thompson – GitHub, LinkedInAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Announcing Tauri 1.5
CrabNebula
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Sep 28, 2023 • 1h 15min
Vibes from Strange Loop
This week we’re taking you to the hallway track of the final Strange Loop conference. First up is AnnMarie Thomas — an engineering, business, and education professor. AnnMarie gave one of the opening keynotes titled “Playing with Engineering.” We also caught up with many first-time and multi-time attendees who shared their favorite moments from Strange Loop over the years. You’ll hear from Richard Feldman, Colin Dean, and Taylor Troesh. Last up we talk with Pokey Rule. He gave a talk about his project called Cursorless which is a spoken language for structural code editing.
Changelog++ subscribers get a super extended version of this episode which includes everything we recorded at Strange Loop. Become a Changelog++ subscriber
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 34 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Convex – Convex is a better type of backend — the full-stack TypeScript development platform that lets you replace your database, server functions, and glue code. Get started at convex.dev
Neo4j – NODES 2023 is coming in October!
Passbolt – It’s time for a new password manager. Read why
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:AnnMarie Thomas – Website, LinkedIn, XRichard Feldman – GitHub, XTaylor Troesh – Website, GitHub, LinkedInColin Dean – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XPokey Rule – GitHub, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:Also, a huge thanks to Alex Miller (the organizer of Strange Loop) for being so kind to us and getting us there for the final Strange Loop. It was quite the experience.
AnnMarie
OK Go Sandbox.org
Richard Feldman
roc-lang.org
Colin Dean
Code & Supply
Taylor Troesch
taylor.town
Pokey Rule
Cursorless
Changelog Interviews #423: Coding without your hands (with Josh Comeau)
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Sep 20, 2023 • 1h 26min
Open source is at a crossroads
This week we’re joined by Steve O’Grady, Principal Analyst & Co-founder at RedMonk. The topic today is the definition of open source, the constant pressure on the true definition of the term, and the seemingly small but vocal minority that aim to protect that definition. In Steve’s post Why Open Source Matters, he says “open source is at a crossroads” and there are some seeking to break the definition of open source to one that is more permissive to their desires, and they are closer than ever to achieving that goal. Today’s conversation goes deep on this subject.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 12 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Convex – Convex is a better type of backend — the full-stack TypeScript development platform that lets you replace your database, server functions, and glue code. Get started at convex.dev
Statsig – Build faster with confidence. Startups to Fortune 500s rely on Statsig to make data-driven decisions. Ship smarter and faster with the unified platform for feature flags, experimentation, and analytics. Our listeners get free white-glove onboarding, migration support, and 5 million free events per month.
Changelog News – A podcast+newsletter combo that’s brief, entertaining & always on-point. Subscribe today.
Typesense – Lightning fast, globally distributed Search-as-a-Service that runs in memory. You literally can’t get any faster!
Featuring:Stephen O'Grady – Website, GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Why Open Source Matters
You can FINALLY use JSHint for evil with Mike Pennisi
Introducing Infrastructure Manager powered by Terraform - cloud.coogle.com
Luis Villa’s Open(ish) Machine Learning News newsletter
Open Source Initiative - donate
Deep Dive: AI Webinar Series
Stefano Maffulli, Executive Director of OSI since 2021
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Sep 13, 2023 • 1h 44min
Attack of the Canaries!
This week we’re joined by Haroon Meer from Thinkst — the makers of Canary and Canary Tokens. Haroon walks us through a network getting compromised, what it takes to deploy a Canary on your network, how they maintain low false-positive numbers, their thoughts and principles on building their business (major wisdom shared!), and how a Canary helps surface network attacks in real time.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 4 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Statsig – Build faster with confidence. Startups to Fortune 500s rely on Statsig to make data-driven decisions. Ship smarter and faster with the unified platform for feature flags, experimentation, and analytics. Our listeners get free white-glove onboarding, migration support, and 5 million free events per month.
Sentry – Watch Lazar Nikolov livestream on YouTube at youtube.com/@nikolovlazar. Use the code CHANGELOG and get the team plan FREE for three (3) months.
Changelog News – A podcast+newsletter combo that’s brief, entertaining & always on-point. Subscribe today.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Haroon Meer – Website, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Thinkst Applied Research
Thinkst Canary
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Sep 6, 2023 • 1h 22min
OpenTF for an open Terraform
This week we’re talking about the launch of OpenTF and what it’s going to take to successfully fork HashiCorp’s Terraform. We’re joined by Josh Padnick to discuss what exactly happened, how HashiCorp’s license change changes things, who has been impacted by this change, and ultimately what they are doing about it.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 6 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Tailscale – Simple, secure networks for teams of any scale. Built on WireGuard.
Sentry – Scheduled jobs are supposed to be predictable, but sometimes, predictable != reliable. Sentry Cron Monitoring (Beta) helps you monitor the uptime and performance of any scheduled or recurring job in Sentry. Learn more by attending this FREE webinar!
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Featuring:Josh Padnick – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
The OpenTF fork is now available!
opentffoundation/opentf
Kelsey Hightower on HashiCorp CEO Dave McJannet’s use of the word “malicious” on Oxide & Friends
Terragrunt
Terraform’s license
We were going to link to the video where HashiCorp CEO Dave McJannet’s used the word “malicious” in regards to their strategy and actions towards the open source community, but it has been taken down. This was the link to the video with a timestamp jumping to the part in question - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59rEiAyYEVk&t=920s
This tweet/post from Bryan Cantrill brought this to the community’s attention.
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Aug 30, 2023 • 1h 50min
Back to the terminal of the future
This week on The Changelog Adam is joined by Zach Lloyd, Founder & CEO of Warp. We talked with Zach last year about what it takes to build the terminal of the future, and today Adam catches up with Zach to see where they are at on that mission. They talk about the business model of Warp, how they measure success, reaching product/market fit, building features developers love, integrating AI, and the pros and cons of going open source (again).
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 7 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Convex – Convex is a better type of backend — the full-stack TypeScript development platform that lets you replace your database, server functions, and glue code. Get started at convex.dev
Square – Develop on the platform that sellers trust. There is a massive opportunity for developers to support Square sellers by building apps for today’s business needs. Learn more at developer.squareup.com to dive into the docs, APIs, SDKs and to create your Square Developer account — tell them Changelog sent you.
Changelog News – A podcast+newsletter combo that’s brief, entertaining & always on-point. Subscribe today.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Zach Lloyd – GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Changelog Interviews #487: Warp wants to be the terminal of the future
Warp.dev
Warp.dev/pricing
nvbn/thefuck
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Aug 24, 2023 • 1h 23min
The serenity of building your own OS
This week we’re talking to Andreas Kling about SerenityOS and Ladybird. Andreas started SerenityOS as a means of therapy. It’s self-described as a love letter to “‘90s user interfaces with a custom Unix-like core.” Andreas previously worked at Nokia and later at Apple on the WebKit team, so he had an itch to do something along the lines of a browser, and that’s where Ladybird came from. We get into the details of compilers, OSs, browsers, web specifications, and the love of making software.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 5 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Convex – Convex is a better type of backend — the full-stack TypeScript development platform that lets you replace your database, server functions, and glue code. Get started at convex.dev
Tailscale – Simple, secure networks for teams of any scale. Built on WireGuard.
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Andreas Kling – Website, GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Sponsor Andreas’s work on GitHub Sponsors
Andreas Kling on YouTube
serenityOS
Ladybird
The Jakt programming language
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Aug 17, 2023 • 1h 31min
30 years of Debian
This week we’re talking with Jonathan Carter who’s on his fourth term as Debian Project Lead (DPL) and we’re talking about 30 years of Debian!
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 12 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Watch Lazar Nikolov’s livestream series on YouTube at youtube.com/@nikolovlazar. Use the code changelog and get the team plan FREE for three (3) months.
Tailscale – Simple, secure networks for teams of any scale. Built on WireGuard.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Featuring:Jonathan Carter – Website, LinkedIn, MastodonAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
A Brief History of Debian
Debian Free Software Guidelines
The Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG)
DPL Platform (2022)
Debian project leaders
About Debian
debconf.org
PinePhone
Software in the Public Interest (SPI)
Changelog Interviews #237: Reproducible builds and secure software
hackclub.com
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Aug 9, 2023 • 1h 8min
Thinking outside the box of code
Leslie Lamport, computer scientist and mathematician, talks about creating LaTeX and TLA+, the importance of code descriptions, upfront design, thinking outside the code box, developing algorithms, and thinking algorithmically with TLA Plus.

Aug 3, 2023 • 1h 38min
DX on DX
This week Adam is joined by Abi Noda, founder and CEO of DX to talk about DX AKA DevEx (or the long-form Developer Experience). Since the dawn of software development there has been this push to understand what makes software teams efficient, but more importantly what does it take to understand developer productivity? That’s what Abi has been focused on for the better part of the last 8 years of his career. He started a company called Pull Panda that was acquired by GitHub, spent a few years there on this problem before going out on his own to start DX which helps startups to the fortune 500 companies gather real insights that leads to real improvement.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 33 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Watch Lazar Nikolov livestream on YouTube at youtube.com/@nikolovlazar. Use the code CHANGELOGMEDIA and get the team plan FREE for six (6) months.
Caisy – Caisy is the headless CMS that gives developers endless possibilities. Learn more at caisy.io
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Featuring:Abi Noda – Website, GitHub, LinkedInAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
DX
GitHub acquires Pull Panda
DevOps Research and Assessment
A Better Way to Measure Developer Productivity
DevEx: What Actually Drives Productivity
How Google Measures and Manages Tech Debt
Defining, Measuring, and Managing Technical Debt
Changelog Interviews #527: What it takes to scale engineering (with Rachel Potvin)
Dr. Nicole Forsgren Joins DX
For our ++ subs
$STDOUT
Changelog Interviews #466: Song Encoder on $STDOUT
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!
Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts
Save insights instantly, chat with episodes, and build lasting knowledge - all powered by AI.