
Changelog Interviews
Conversations with the hackers, leaders, and innovators of the software world. Adam Stacoviak and Jerod Santo face their imposter syndrome so you don’t have to. Expect in-depth interviews with the best and brightest in software engineering, open source & leadership. This is a polyglot podcast. All programming languages, platforms & communities are welcome.
Latest episodes

Jul 28, 2023 • 1h 34min
From Docker to Dagger
This week we’re joined by Solomon Hykes, the creator of Docker. Now he’s back with his next big thing called Dagger — CI/CD as code that runs anywhere. We’re users of Dagger so check out our codebase if you want to see how it works. On today’s show Solomon takes us back to the days of Docker, what it was like on that 10 year journey, his transition from Docker to Dagger, Dagger’s community-led growth model, their focus on open source and community, how it works, and even a cameo from Kelsey Hightower to explain how Dagger works.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 4 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Square – Develop on the platform that sellers trust. There is a massive opportunity for developers to support Square sellers by building apps for today’s business needs. Learn more at developer.squareup.com to dive into the docs, APIs, SDKs and to create your Square Developer account — tell them Changelog sent you.
Passbolt – It’s time for a new password manager. Read why
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Featuring:Solomon Hykes – GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
dagger.io
docs.dagger.io
Changelog & Friends #6: Even the best rides come to an end
Ship It! #48: Launching Dagger
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jul 20, 2023 • 1h 43min
Storytime with Steve Yegge
This week it’s storytime with Steve Yegge! Steve came out of retirement to join Sourcegraph as Head of Engineering. Their next frontier is Cody, their AI coding assistant that answers code questions and writes code for you by reading your entire codebase and the code graph. But, we really spent a lot of time talking with Steve about his time at Amazon, Google, and Grab. Ok, it’s storytime!
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 9 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Code-level APM built for developers! Stay ahead of latency issues and trace every slow transaction to a poor-performing API call or database query. Sentry is the only developer-first application monitoring platform that shows you what’s slow, down to the line of code. Use the code CHANGELOGMEDIA and get the team plan FREE for six (6) months.
Drata – Put security and compliance on autopilot. Build trust with your customers and scale securely with Drata, the smartest way to achieve continuous framework compliance for SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, GDPR, and more.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Steve Yegge – GitHub, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Steve Yegge’s Google Platforms Rant
steve-yegge-platform-rant-follow-up.md
Steve Yegge joins as Head of Engineering (or, “Why I left retirement to join Sourcegraph”)
All You Need Is Cody
Cody is Cheating
A good day with Jeff
Steve Yegge on Wikipedia
Why I left Google to join Grab
Cody AI
Yin and Yang on Wikipedia
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jul 13, 2023 • 1h 5min
Types will win in the end
This week we’re talking about type checking with Jake Zimmerman. Jake is one of the leads at Stripe working on Sorbet — an open source project that does Type checking in Ruby and runs over Stripe’s entire Ruby codebase. As of May of 2022 Stripe’s codebase was over 15 million lines of code spread across 150,000 files. If you think you have a bigger Ruby codebase, Jake is down to go byte-for-byte to see who wins. Jake shares tons of wisdom and more importantly he shares why he thinks types will win in the end.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 4 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – Code-level APM built for developers! Stay ahead of latency issues and trace every slow transaction to a poor-performing API call or database query. Sentry is the only developer-first application monitoring platform that shows you what’s slow, down to the line of code. Use the code CHANGELOGMEDIA and get the team plan FREE for six (6) months.
Drata – Put security and compliance on autopilot. Build trust with your customers and scale securely with Drata, the smartest way to achieve continuous framework compliance for SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, GDPR, and more.
Typesense – Lightning fast, globally distributed Search-as-a-Service that runs in memory. You literally can’t get any faster!
Featuring:Jake Zimmerman – Website, GitHub, Mastodon, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
sorbet.org
Getting started with Sorbet
Sorbet: Stripe’s type checker for Ruby
Justin Searls
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jul 6, 2023 • 1h 23min
Efficient Linux at the CLI
This week we’re talking to Daniel J. Barrett, author of Efficient Linux at the Command Line as well as many other books. Daniel has a PhD and has been teaching and writing about Linux for more than 30 years (almost 40!). So we invited Dan to join us on the show to talk about efficient ways to use Linux. He teaches us about combining commands, re-running commands, $CDPATH hacks, and more.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 5 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Square – Develop on the platform that sellers trust. There is a massive opportunity for developers to support Square sellers by building apps for today’s business needs. Learn more at developer.squareup.com to dive into the docs, APIs, SDKs and to create your Square Developer account — tell them Changelog sent you.
Changelog News – A podcast+newsletter combo that’s brief, entertaining & always on-point. Subscribe today.
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Featuring:Daniel J. Barrett – Website, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Efficient Linux at the Command Line
Daniel’s books
Dan on O’Reilly
Cold Ice Cream & Hot Kisses
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jun 28, 2023 • 1h 7min
Don't make things worse!
Taylor Troesh joins Jerod to discuss a bevy of software development topics: yak shaves, dependency selection, -10x engineers, IKEA-oriented development, his new content-addressable programming language & much more along the way.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 4 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:DevCycle – Build better software with DevCycle. Feature flags, without the tech debt. DevCycle is a Feature Flag Management platform designed to help you build maintainable code at scale.
Drata – Put security and compliance on autopilot. Build trust with your customers and scale securely with Drata, the smartest way to achieve continuous framework compliance for SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, GDPR, and more.
Changelog News – A podcast+newsletter combo that’s brief, entertaining & always on-point. Subscribe today.
Featuring:Taylor Troesh – Website, GitHub, LinkedInJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Taylor Town
IKEA-Oriented Development
11 Ways to Shave a Yak
How to be a -10x Engineer
The Lindy Effect
Crafting Interpreters
The Unison language
Scrapscript
The Mother of All Demos - Wikipedia
Opening Keynote: Greg Young - Stop Over-Engenering - YouTube
The art of destroying software (Greg Young) - YouTube
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jun 22, 2023 • 1h 28min
Rebuilding DevOps from the ground up
This week we’re joined by Adam Jacob and we’re talking about his mission at System Initiative to rebuild DevOps. They are out of stealth mode and ready to show off their transformative new power tool that reimagines what’s possible from DevOps. It’s an intelligent automation platform that allows DevOps teams to build detailed interactive simulations of their infrastructure and use them to rapidly update their production environments.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 6 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:DevCycle – Build better software with DevCycle. Feature flags, without the tech debt. DevCycle is a Feature Flag Management platform designed to help you build maintainable code at scale.
Drata – Put security and compliance on autopilot. Build trust with your customers and scale securely with Drata, the smartest way to achieve continuous framework compliance for SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, GDPR, and more.
Changelog News – A podcast+newsletter combo that’s brief, entertaining & always on-point. Subscribe today.
Fastly – Our bandwidth partner. Fastly powers fast, secure, and scalable digital experiences. Move beyond your content delivery network to their powerful edge cloud platform. Learn more at fastly.com
Featuring:Adam Jacob – Website, GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
System Initiative
System Initiative launch demo
What if Infrastructure as Code never existed, by Adam Jacob
10+ deploys per day at Flickr
Changelog Interviews #353: The war for the soul of open source
Changelog Interviews #460: The business model of open source
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jun 15, 2023 • 1h 11min
Passkeys for a passwordless future
This week we’re talking about Passkeys with Anna Pobletts, Head of Passwordless, at 1Password. Will Passkeys enable a passwordless future? Time will tell. Anna shares the what, the why, how, and the when on Passkeys.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 9 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Square – Develop on the platform that sellers trust. There is a massive opportunity for developers to support Square sellers by building apps for today’s business needs. Learn more at developer.squareup.com to dive into the docs, APIs, SDKs and to create your Square Developer account — tell them Changelog sent you.
Drata – Put security and compliance on autopilot. Build trust with your customers and scale securely with Drata, the smartest way to achieve continuous framework compliance for SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, GDPR, and more.
Raycast – Raycast is a blazingly fast, totally extendable launcher. It lets you complete tasks, calculate, share common links, and much more. Turn Pro to harness the power of AI, make Raycast your own with custom themes, keep your Macs in sync and more on the way.
Fly.io – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at fly.io/changelog and check out the speedrun in their docs.
Featuring:Anna Pobletts – LinkedInAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
Passkeys: the future of authentication in 1Password
Passage by 1Password
Passkeys Overview (Apple Developer)
Supporting Passkeys (Apple Developer)
passkeys.directory
passkeys.dev
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Jun 8, 2023 • 1h 22min
ANTHOLOGY — It's a Cloud Native world
This is our last week of hallway track coverage at The Linux Foundation’s Open Source Summit North America 2023 in Vancouver, Canada. Today’s anthology episode features: Jeffrey Sica (Developer Experience & Programs @ CNCF), Eddie Zaneski (Kubernetes SIG CLI), Yaron Schneider (Co-creator of Dapr and Founder and CTO at Diagrid).
Special thanks to our friends at GitHub for sponsoring us to attend this conference as part of Maintainer Month.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 10 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:Sentry – See the untested code causing errors - or whether it’s partially or fully covered - directly in your stack trace, so you can avoid similar errors from happening in the future. Use the code CHANGELOG and get the team plan free for three months.
Raycast – Raycast is a blazingly fast, totally extendable launcher. It lets you complete tasks, calculate, share common links, and much more. Turn Pro to harness the power of AI, make Raycast your own with custom themes, keep your Macs in sync and more on the way.
Changelog News – A podcast+newsletter combo that’s brief, entertaining & always on-point. Subscribe today.
GitHub – Harnessed for productivity. Designed for collaboration. Celebrated for built-in security. Welcome to the platform developers love.
Featuring:Jeffrey Sica – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XEddie Zaneski – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XYaron Schneider – GitHub, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:Part 1
Cloud Native Computing Foundation
The Endowment effect
Part 2
Kubernetes CLI Special Interest Group (SIG)
Part 3
Dapr
Dapr on cncf.io
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

May 31, 2023 • 1h 30min
ANTHOLOGY — Maintaining maintainers
This week on The Changelog we’re continuing our Maintainer Month series by taking to you back to the hallway track of The Linux Foundation’s Open Source Summit North America 2023 in Vancouver, Canada. Today’s anthology episode features: Stormy Peters (VP of Communities at GitHub), Dr. Dawn Foster (Director of Open Source Community Strategy at VMware), and Angie Byron (Drupal Core Product Manager and Community Director at Aiven).
Special thanks to our friends at GitHub for sponsoring us to attend this conference as part of Maintainer Month.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members save 10 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!Sponsors:GitHub – Harnessed for productivity. Designed for collaboration. Celebrated for built-in security. Welcome to the platform developers love.
Square – Develop on the platform that sellers trust. There is a massive opportunity for developers to support Square sellers by building apps for today’s business needs. Learn more at developer.squareup.com to dive into the docs, APIs, SDKs and to create your Square Developer account — tell them Changelog sent you.
Sentry – See the untested code causing errors - or whether it’s partially or fully covered - directly in your stack trace, so you can avoid similar errors from happening in the future. Use the code CHANGELOG and get the team plan free for three months.
Typesense – Lightning fast, globally distributed Search-as-a-Service that runs in memory. You literally can’t get any faster!
Featuring:Stormy Peters – GitHub, LinkedIn, XDr. Dawn Foster – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XAngie Byron – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:
GitHub Sponsors
GitHub Accelerator
CHAOSS
Changelog Interviews #321: Drupal is a pretty big deal
Drupal
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

May 24, 2023 • 1h 38min
ANTHOLOGY — Open source AI
This week on The Changelog we’re taking you to the hallway track of The Linux Foundation’s Open Source Summit North America 2023 in Vancouver, Canada. Today’s anthology episode features: Beyang Liu (Co-founder and CTO at Sourcegraph), Denny Lee (Developer Advocate at Databricks), and Stella Biderman (Executive Director and Head of Research at EleutherAI).
Special thanks to our friends at GitHub for sponsoring us to attend this conference as part of Maintainer Month.
Join the discussionChangelog++ members get a bonus 3 minutes at the end of this episode and zero ads. Join today!Sponsors:DevCycle – Build better software with DevCycle. Feature flags, without the tech debt. DevCycle is a Feature Flag Management platform designed to help you build maintainable code at scale.
Sentry – See the untested code causing errors - or whether it’s partially or fully covered - directly in your stack trace, so you can avoid similar errors from happening in the future. Use the code CHANGELOG and get the team plan free for three months.
Rocky Linux – Enterprise Linux, the open source community way.
Featuring:Beyang Liu – GitHub, XDenny Lee – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XStella Biderman – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, XAdam Stacoviak – Website, GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XJerod Santo – GitHub, LinkedIn, Mastodon, XShow Notes:The common denominator for these conversations is open source AI.
Beyang Liu and his team at Sourcegraph are focused on enabling more developers to understand code and their approach to a completely open source, model agnostic, coding assistant called Cody has significant interest from us.
Denny Lee and the team at Databricks recently released Dolly 2.0, the first open source, instruction-following LLM, that has been fine-tuned on a human-generated instruction dataset and is licensed for research and commercial use. They want to be the platform of choice the future of AI development.
Stella Biderman gave the keynote address on generative AI at the conference and works at the base layer doing open source research, model training, and AI ethics. Stella trained the EleutherAI pythia model family that Databricks’ used to create Dolly - 2.0.
Cody from Sourcegraph - Read, write, and understand code 10x faster with AI. Cody answers code questions and writes code for you by reading your entire codebase and the code graph.
Free Dolly: Introducing the World’s First Truly Open Instruction-Tuned LLM
EleutherAI - Empowering Open Source Artificial Intelligence Research
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!
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