
The Application Security Podcast
Chris Romeo and Robert Hurlbut dig into the tips, tricks, projects, and tactics that make various application security professionals successful. They cover all facets of application security, from threat modeling and OWASP to DevOps+security and security champions. They approach these stories in an educational light, explaining the details in a way those new to the discipline can understand. Chris Romeo is the CEO of Devici and a General Partner at Kerr Ventures, and Robert Hurlbut is a Principal Application Security Architect focused on Threat Modeling at Aquia.
Latest episodes

Jul 2, 2024 • 50min
Jahanzeb Farooq -- Launching and executing an AppSec program
Jahanzeb Farooq discusses his journey in cybersecurity and the challenges of building AppSec programs from scratch. Jahanzeb shares his experience working in various industries, including Siemens, Novo Nordisk, and Danske Bank, highlighting the importance of understanding developer needs and implementing the right tools. The conversation covers the complexities of cybersecurity in the pharmaceutical and financial sectors, shedding light on regulatory requirements and the role of software in critical industries. Learn about prioritizing security education, threat modeling, and navigating digital transformation.Mentioned in this Episode:The Power of Habit by Charles DuhiggFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jun 18, 2024 • 57min
David Quisenberry -- Building Security, People, and Programs
David Quisenberry shares about his journey into the security world, insights on building AppSec programs in small to mid-sized companies, and the importance of data-driven decision-making. The conversation delves into the value of mentoring and why it's important to build real relationships with the people you work with, the vital role of trust with engineering teams, and the significance of mental health and community in the industry. Books Shared in the Episode:SRE Engineering by Betsy Beyer, Chris Jones, Jennifer Petoff and Niall Richard Murphy The Phoenix Project by Gene Kim, Kevin Behr and George Spafford Security Chaos Engineering by Aaron Rinehart and Kelly Shortridge CISO Desk Reference Guide by Bill Bonney, Gary Hayslip, Matt Stamper Wiring the Winning Organization by Gene Kim and Dr. Steven J. Spear The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk, M.D. Intelligence Driven Incident Response by Rebekah Brown and Scott J. Roberts Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Do Hard Things by Steve Magness How Leaders Create and Use Networks, Whitepaper by Herminia Ibarra and Mark Lee HunterFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jun 11, 2024 • 46min
Matt Rose -- Software Supply Chain Security Means Many Different Things to Different People
Matt Rose takes listeners on a journey through the intricate world of software supply chain security. He highlights how perceptions vary across the industry and critiques the buzzword 'shift left.' The discussion dives into the roles of digital twins and AI, revealing their potential risks and benefits. Emphasizing threat modeling as a crucial early step, Matt argues for a comprehensive security approach. The conversation also touches on industry trends, the pitfalls of jargon, and the importance of navigating current and emerging security challenges.

May 31, 2024 • 45min
James Berthoty -- Is DAST Dead? And the future of API security
James Berthoty, a cloud security engineer with a rich IT background and founder of Latio Tech, dives into the evolving landscape of application security. He critiques traditional DAST tools, emphasizing their limitations with modern applications and the pressing need for advanced API security solutions. The conversation explores the ongoing challenges of software patching and how AI can streamline these processes. With a focus on actively engaging in open-source sustainability, Berthoty advocates for a proactive approach to security over mere identification of issues.

May 21, 2024 • 43min
Mark Curphey and Simon Bennetts -- Riding the Coat Tails of ZAP, without Open Source Funding
Mark Curphey and Simon Bennetts, join Chris on the podcast to discuss the challenges of funding and sustaining major open source security projects like ZAP. Curphey shares about going fully independent and building a non-profit sustainable model for ZAP. The key is getting companies in the industry, especially companies commercializing ZAP, to properly fund its ongoing development and maintenance.Bennetts, who has led ZAP for over 15 years, shares the harsh reality that while ZAP is likely the world's most popular web scanner with millions of active users per month, very few companies contribute back financially despite making millions by building products and services on top of ZAP. Curphey and Bennetts are asking those in the industry to step up and properly fund open source projects like ZAP that are critical infrastructure, rather than freeloading off the hard work of a few individuals. Curphey's company is investing substantial funds in a "responsible marketing" model to sustain ZAP as a non-profit, with hopes others will follow this ethical example to prevent open source security going down a dangerous path.FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

May 14, 2024 • 36min
Devin Rudnicki -- Expanding AppSec
Devon Rudnicki, the Chief Information Security Officer at Fitch Group, shares her journey of developing an application security program from scratch and advancing to the CISO role. She emphasizes the importance of collaboration, understanding the organization's business, and using metrics to drive positive change in the security program.Elon Musk - Walter IsaacsonSteve Jobs - Walter IsaacsonThe Code Breaker: Jennifer Doudna, Gene Editing, and the Future of the Human Race - Walter Isaacsonhttps://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Walter-Isaacson/697650FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

4 snips
Apr 16, 2024 • 45min
Dustin Lehr -- Culture Change through Champions and Gamification
Dustin Lehr, Senior Director of Platform Security/Deputy CISO at Fivetran and Chief Solutions Officer at Katilyst Security, joins Robert and Chris to discuss security champions. Dustin explains the concept of security champions within the developer community, exploring the unique qualities and motivations behind developers becoming security advocates. He emphasizes the importance of fostering a security culture and leveraging gamification to engage developers effectively. They also cover the challenges of implementing security practices within the development process and how to justify the need for a champion program to engineering leadership. Dustin shares insights from his career transition from a developer to a cybersecurity professional, and he provides practical advice for organizations looking to enhance their security posture through community and culture-focused approaches.Links:"Maker's Schedule, Manager's Schedule" article by Paul Graham — https://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.htmlNever Split the Difference by Chris Voss & Tahl Raz —https://www.harpercollins.com/products/never-split-the-difference-chris-vosstahl-raz?variant=32117745385506FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Apr 9, 2024 • 38min
Francesco Cipollone -- Application Security Posture Management and the Power of Working with the Business
Francesco Cipollone, CEO of Phoenix Security, joins Chris and Robert to discuss security and explain Application Security Posture Management (ASPM). Francesco shares his journey from developer to cybersecurity leader, revealing the origins and importance of ASPM. The discussion covers the distinction between application security and product security, the evolution of ASPM from SIEM solutions, and ASPM's role in managing asset vulnerabilities and software security holistically. Francesco emphasizes the necessity of involving the business side in security decisions and explains how ASPM enables actionable, risk-based decision-making. The episode also touches on the impact of AI on ASPM. It concludes with Francesco advocating for a stronger integration between security, development, and business teams to effectively manage software security risks.Recommended Reading:Cyber for Builders: The Essential Guide to Building a Cybersecurity Startup by Ross Haleliuk — https://ventureinsecurity.net/p/cyber-for-buildersFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Apr 2, 2024 • 47min
Mukund Sarma -- Developer Tools that Solve Security Problems
Mukund Sarma, the Senior Director for Product Security at Chime, talks with Chris about his career path from being a software engineer to becoming a leader in application security. He explains how he focuses on building security tools that are easy for developers to use and stresses the importance of looking at application security as a part of the broader category of product security. Mukund highlights the role of collaboration over security mandates and the introduction of security scorecards for proactive risk management. He and Chris also discuss the strategic implementation of embedded security functions within development teams. Discover the potential of treating security as an enabling function for developers, fostering a culture of shared responsibility, and the innovative approaches Chime employs to secure its services with minimal friction for developers.LinksChime's Monocle-- https://medium.com/life-at-chime/monocle-how-chime-creates-a-proactive-security-engineering-culture-part-1-dedd3846127f-- https://medium.com/life-at-chime/mitigating-risky-pull-requests-with-monocle-risk-advisor-part-2-7013e1485bf2Introduction to Overwatch-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtZKBtw8VO4Recommended ReadingBuilding Secure and Reliable Systems by Adkins, Beyer, Blankinship, Lewandowski, Oprea, Stubblefield -- https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/building-secure-and/9781492083115/Drive by Daniel Pink -- https://www.danpink.com/books/drive/FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mar 20, 2024 • 41min
Meghan Jacquot -- Assumed Breach Red Team Engagements for AppSec
AppSec specialist Megan Jacquot joins Chris and Robert for a compelling conversation about community, career paths, and productive red team exercises. Megan shares her unique cybersecurity origin story, tracing her interest in the field from childhood influences through her tenure as an educator and her formal return to academia to pivot into a tech-focused career. She delves into her roles in threat intelligence and application security, emphasizing her passion for technical work, penetration testing, and bug bounty programs. Additionally, Megan highlights the importance of mentorship, her involvement with the Women in Cybersecurity (WeCyS) community, and her dedication to fostering the next generation of cybersecurity professionals. The discussion covers assumed breach and red team engagements in cybersecurity, the significance of empathy in bug bounty interactions, tips for Call for Papers (CFP) submissions, and the value of community engagement within organizations like OWASP and DEF CON. Megan concludes with insights on the importance of difficult conversations and giving back to the cybersecurity community.LinksDifficult Conversations (How to Discuss What Matters Most) by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, Sheila Heen -- https://www.stoneandheen.com/difficult-conversationsBeing Henry: The Fonz...and Beyond by Henry Winkler -- https://celadonbooks.com/book/being-henry-fonz-and-beyond-henry-winkler/FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~