The Application Security Podcast

Robert is joined by Bill Sempf, an application security architect with over 20 years of experience in software development and security. Bill shares his security origins as a curious child immersed in technology, leading to his lifelong dedication to application security. They discuss CodeMash, a developer conference in Ohio, and recount Bill's presentation on the Veilid application framework, designed for privacy-driven mobile applications. Bill also explores his efforts in educating children about technology and programming, drawing on his experiences with Kidsmash and other initiatives. Additionally, they delve into the challenges of application security, particularly modern software development practices and the utility of languages like Rust for creating secure applications. Bill concludes with intriguing thoughts on application security trends and the importance of a diverse skill set for both developers and security professionals.Helpful Links:Bill's homepage - https://www.sempf.net/CodeMash conference - https://codemash.orgVeilid Application Framework - https://veilid.com/Math Without Numbers - https://www.amazon.com/Math-Without-Numbers-Milo-Beckman/dp/1524745545FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hendrik Ewerlin, a threat modeling advocate, discusses the importance of threat modeling in software development. He explores the role of threat modeling, emphasizing the dire consequences of overlooking this crucial process. Hendrik stresses the importance of adopting an effective, efficient, and satisfying process for successful security.

Jason Nelson, an accomplished expert in information security management, joins Chris to share insights on establishing successful threat modeling programs in data-intensive industries like finance and healthcare. Jason presents his three main pillars to consider when establishing a threat modeling program: consistency, repeatability, and efficacy. The discussion also provides a series of fascinating insights into security practices, regulatory environments, and the value of a threat modeling champion. As a threat modeling practitioner, Jason provides an essential perspective to anyone serious about application security.FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Erik Cabetas joins Robert and Chris for a thought-provoking discussion about modern software security. They talk about the current state of vulnerabilities, the role of memory-safe languages in AppSec, and why IncludeSec takes a highly systematic approach to security assessments and bans OWASP language. Along the way, Erik shares his entry into cybersecurity and his experience consulting about hacking for TV shows and movies. The conversation doesn't end before they peek into threat modeling, software engineering architecture, and the nuances of running security programs.Helpful Links:Security Engineering by Ross Anderson - https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Security+Engineering%3A+A+Guide+to+Building+Dependable+Distributed+Systems%2C+3rd+Edition-p-9781119642817New School of Information Security by Adam Shostack and Andrew Stewart - https://www.informit.com/store/new-school-of-information-security-9780132800280FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Justin Collins of Gusto joins Robert and Chris for a practical conversation about running security teams in an engineering-minded organization. Justin shares his experience leading product security teams, the importance of aligning security with business goals, and the challenges arising from the intersection of product security and emerging technologies like GenAI.They also discuss the concept of security partners and the future of AI applications in the field of cybersecurity. And he doesn’t finish before sharing insights into the role of GRC and privacy in the current security landscape. Find out why Justin believes that above all, security should align with the goals of a business, tailored to the business itself, its situation, and its resources.Book Recommendation:The DevOps Handbook by Gene Kim et al.https://itrevolution.com/product/the-devops-handbook-second-edition/FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kyle Kelly, Founder of Cram Hacks and a seasoned security consultant, dives into the chaotic landscape of software supply chain security. He provocatively claims it resembles a 'dumpster fire,' shedding light on the urgent need for clearer definitions in the industry. Kyle discusses the impact of governance and regulatory pressures on software development, balancing security policies with innovation. He also critiques unrealistic expectations on developers and emphasizes the necessity for robust practices around open-source components to enhance security.

Chris Hughes, co-founder of Aquia, joins Chris and Robert on the Application Security Podcast to discuss points from his recent book Software Transparency: Supply Chain Security in an Era of a Software-Driven Society, co-authored with Tony Turner. The conversation touches on the U.S. government in the software supply chain, the definition and benefits of software transparency, the concept of a software bill of materials (SBOM), and the growth of open-source software. The episode also covers crucial topics like compliance versus real security in software startups, the role of SOC 2 in setting security baselines, and the importance of threat modeling in understanding software supply chain risks. They also talk about the imbalance between software suppliers and consumers in terms of information transparency and the burden on developers and engineers to handle vulnerability lists with little context.As an expert in the field, Chris touches on the broader challenges facing the cybersecurity community, including the pitfalls of overemphasizing technology at the expense of building strong relationships and trust. He advocates for a more holistic approach to security, one that prioritizes people over technology.LinksSoftware Transparency: Supply Chain Security in an Era of a Software-Driven Society by Chris Hughes and Tony Turnerhttps://www.wiley.com/en-us/Software+Transparency%3A+Supply+Chain+Security+in+an+Era+of+a+Software+Driven+Society-p-9781394158492Application Security Program Handbook by Derek Fisher https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Application-Security-Program-Handbook/Derek-Fisher/9781633439818Agile Application Security by Laura Bell, Michael Brunton-Spall, Rich Smith, Jim Birdhttps://www.oreilly.com/library/view/agile-application-security/9781491938836/CNCF Catalog of Supply Chain Compromiseshttps://github.com/cncf/tag-security/blob/main/supply-chain-security/compromises/README.mdFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jay Bobo and Darylynn Ross discuss the shift from application security to product security. They emphasize the importance of effective communication and integrating security within development teams. The podcast challenges the current state of penetration testing and encourages a holistic approach to product security.

Eitan Worcel joins the Application Security Podcast, to talk automated code fixes and the role of artificial intelligence in application security. We start with a thought-provoking discussion about the consistency and reliability of AI-generated responses in fixing vulnerabilities like Cross-Site Scripting (XSS). The conversation highlights a future where AI on one side writes code while AI on the other side fixes it, raising questions about the outcomes of such a scenario.The discussion shifts to the human role in using AI for automated code fixes. Human oversight is important in setting policies or rules to guide AI, as opposed to letting it run wild on the entire code base. This controlled approach, akin to a 'controlled burn,' aims at deploying AI in a way that's beneficial and manageable, without overwhelming developers with excessive changes or suggestions.We also explore the efficiency gains expected from AI in automating tedious tasks like fixing code vulnerabilities. We compare this to the convenience of household robots like Roomba, imagining a future where AI takes care of repetitive tasks, enhancing developer productivity. However, we also address potential pitfalls, such as AI's tendency to 'hallucinate' or generate inaccurate solutions, underscoring the need for caution and proper validation of AI-generated fixes.This episode offers a balanced perspective on the integration of AI in application security, highlighting both its promising potential and the challenges that need to be addressed. Join us as we unravel the complexities and future of AI in AppSec, understanding how it can revolutionize the field while remaining vigilant about its limitations.Recommended Reading from Eitan: The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz - https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-hard-thing-about-hard-things-ben-horowitz?variant=32122118471714FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bjorn Kimminich, the driving force behind the OWASP Juice Shop project, joins Chris and Robert to discuss all things Juice Shop. The OWASP Juice Shop is a deliberately vulnerable web application that serves as an invaluable training tool for security professionals and enthusiasts. Bjorn provides a comprehensive overview of the latest features and challenges introduced in the Juice Shop, underscoring the project's commitment to simulating real-world security scenarios.Key highlights include the introduction of coding challenges, where users must identify and fix code vulnerabilities. This interactive approach enhances the learning experience and bridges the gap between theoretical knowledge and practical application. Additionally, Bjorn delves into the integration of Web3 and smart contracts within the Juice Shop, reflecting the project's adaptation to emerging technologies in the blockchain domain. This integration poses new challenges and learning opportunities, making the Juice Shop a continually relevant and evolving platform for cybersecurity training.The episode concludes with an acknowledgment of the project's maintenance efforts and the introduction of a novel cheating detection mechanism. This system assesses the patterns and speed of challenge completions, ensuring the integrity of the learning process. Bjorn's discussion also highlights the inclusion of 'shenanigan' challenges, adding a layer of fun and creativity to the application. The significant impact of the Juice Shop on the cybersecurity community, as a tool for honing skills and understanding complex security vulnerabilities, is evident throughout the discussion, marking this episode as an essential watch for those in the field.Links:OWASP Juice Shop - https://owasp.org/www-project-juice-shop/Pwning OWASP Juice Shop by Björn Kimminich. The official companion guide to the OWASP Juice Shop - https://leanpub.com/juice-shop"OWASP Juice Shop Jingle" by Brian Johnson of 7 Minute Security - https://soundcloud.com/braimee/owasp-juice-shop-jingleFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~