The Application Security Podcast

Henrik Plate joins us to discuss the OWASP Top 10 Open Source Risks, a guide highlighting critical security and operational challenges in using open source dependencies. The list includes risks like known vulnerabilities, compromised legitimate packages, name confusion attacks, and unmaintained software, providing developers and organizations a framework to assess and mitigate potential threats. Henrik offers insights on how developers and AppSec professionals can implement the guidelines. Our discussion also includes the need for a dedicated open-source risk list, and the importance of addressing known vulnerabilities, unmaintained projects, immature software, and more. The OWASP Top 10 Open Source Risks FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Security expert Tanya Janca discusses her new book "Alice and Bob Learn Secure Coding" and shares insights on making security accessible to developers. In this engaging conversation, she explores how security professionals can better connect with developers through threat modeling, maintaining empathy, and creating inclusive learning environments. Tanya emphasizes the importance of system maintenance after deployment and shares practical advice on input validation, while highlighting how security teams can build better relationships with development teams by avoiding arrogance and embracing collaboration.Tanya’s new book:  Alice & Bob Learn Secure CodingThree Individuals that Tanya would like to introduce to you:Confidence Staveley https://confidencestaveley.com/Rana Khalil https://www.linkedin.com/in/ranakhalil1Laura Bell Main https://www.laurabellmain.com/FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mehran Koushkebaghi, a seasoned engineering expert, delves into the intricacies of systemic security. He draws parallels between civil engineering and IT systems, and explains the importance of holistic thinking in security design. Discover the difference between semantic and syntactic vulnerabilities and understand how anti-requirements play a critical role in system resilience. This episode offers fresh perspectives on application security.Books recommended by Mehran:Critical System Thinking Book by Mike JacksonThe Fifth Discipline by Peter SengeUnderstanding Complexity on Audible read by Scott E PageNassim Taleb booksFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kalyani Pawar shares critical strategies for integrating security early and effectively in AppSec for startups. She recommends that startups begin focusing on AppSec around the 30-employee mark, with an ideal ratio of one AppSec professional per 10 engineers as the company grows. Pawar emphasizes the importance of building a security culture through "culture as code" - implementing automated guardrails and checkpoints that make security an integral part of the development process. She advises startups to prioritize visibility into their systems, conduct pentests, develop thoughtful policies, and carefully vet third-party tools and open-source solutions. Ultimately, Pawar's approach is about making security a collaborative, integrated effort that doesn't impede innovation but instead supports the startup's long-term success and safety.Kalyani’s Book recommendation: The Alignment Problem by Brian Christian FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Milan Williams, a Senior Product Manager at Semgrep with a background in computer science and physics from Harvard, dives into the world of application security metrics. She emphasizes the need for metrics to not only track progress but to be actionable and relatable through storytelling. Milan discusses how a collaborative approach between security and development teams can enhance teamwork and address vulnerabilities effectively. By making security metrics meaningful, she highlights their impact on career growth and resource allocation.

MO Sadek, a security transformation leader with experience at Roblox, shares his unconventional journey into application security. He discusses the importance of communication and collaboration in building effective security programs. Mo emphasizes that security should simplify processes rather than complicate them. He also reflects on his unique background, bridging gaps between infrastructure and security. With insights on fostering cross-team relationships and leadership buy-in, he highlights shared responsibility in enhancing organizational security.

Brett Crawley discusses the Elevation of Privilege (EoP) card game, a powerful tool for threat modeling in software development. The discussion explores recent extensions to the game including privacy-focused suits and TRIM (Transfer, Retention/Removal, Inference, Minimization) categories. Crawley emphasizes that threat modeling shouldn't end with the game but should be an ongoing process throughout an application's lifecycle, ideally starting before implementation. He also shares insights from his book, which provides detailed examples and guidance for teams new to threat modeling using EoP.You can find Brett on X @brettcrawleyBrett’s book: Threat Modeling Gameplay with EoP: A reference manual for spotting threats in software architectureBook recommendation:Conscious Business by Fred KofmanFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Matin Mavaddat discusses his perspective on security as a systemic concern, developed from his background in requirements engineering and systems architecture. He introduces the concept of "anti-requirements" - defining what a system should not do - and distinguishes between "syntactic security" (addressing technical vulnerabilities that are always incorrect) and "semantic security" (context-dependent security emerging from system interactions). Mavaddat shares his perspective that security itself doesn't have independent existence but rather emerges from preventing undesirable states. The discussion concludes with practical implementation strategies, suggesting that while automated tools can handle syntactic security issues, organizations should focus more energy on semantic security by understanding business context and defining anti-requirements early in the development process.Mentioned in this episode:Matin’s article: Reframing Security: Unveiling Power Anti-Requirements  Systems Thinking for Curious Managers by Russell AckoffAntifragile by Nassim Nicholas TalebThe Black Swan by Nassim Nicholas TalebFOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kayra Otaner joins the podcast today to discuss DevSecOps and answer the question, is it dead? Kayra is the Director of DevSecOps at Roche and is highly involved in the DevSecOps community. Kayra states that DevSecOps in its traditional form is “dead” and that each organization should approach its needs based on their size. Otaner introduces the concept of "security as code" and "policy as code" as more effective approaches, where security functions are codified rather than relying on traditional documentation and checklists. Finally, they discuss the emergence of Application Security Posture Management (ASPM) tools as the "SIM for AppSec," suggesting these tools, especially when enhanced with AI, could help manage the overwhelming number of security alerts and issues that currently plague development teams.Mentioned in this Episode:Books by Yuval Noah Harari  FOLLOW OUR SOCIAL MEDIA: ➜Twitter: @AppSecPodcast➜LinkedIn: The Application Security Podcast➜YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ApplicationSecurityPodcast Thanks for Listening! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

François Proulx, a senior product security engineer at Boost Security and founder of the NorthSec conference, reveals alarming vulnerabilities in build pipelines of popular open-source packages. He introduces his open source scanner, Poutine, designed to pinpoint these weaknesses. The discussion touches on zero-day exploits, supply chain attacks, and the critical role of security architecture. Proulx also emphasizes the importance of threat modeling and educational initiatives for developers to enhance security practices.