Send us feedback or episode suggestions.Increasingly, design systems need to support multi-product ecosystems with a diverse array of consumers and stakeholders. This week, Chris Strahl sits down with Miranda Bouck from Instacart to explore the intricacies of managing a multi-faceted design system. Miranda delves into the challenges and strategies of balancing the diverse needs of consumer apps, internal apps, and enterprise retail partners, all while maintaining system flexibility and performance. Learn how Instacart's small but mighty design system team effectively supports a vast network of designers, developers, and business partners. Tune in for a fascinating discussion on pushing the boundaries of design systems in a complex ecosystem.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestMiranda is a Staff Product Designer at Instacart, working on the Instacart Design System, Pantry. Her aim: build products that create an accessible, logical, and predictable user experience. Blueberries. They're always in my cart.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.Many enterprise organizations face the challenge of scaling their design systems as the scope of product support expands through adoption and acquisition.In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, host Chris Strahl speaks with Will Rodenbough, Senior UX Designer at Avalara, about the critical role of design systems in enabling scalability and supporting a growth-by-acquisition strategy.Key Topics Covered:Scaling Through Systems Thinking: How Avalara's design system harmonizes diverse products across its growing ecosystem.Supporting Growth-by-Acquisition: Strategies for integrating acquired companies into a unified design system.Collaboration and Accessibility: Ensuring stakeholder alignment and prioritizing accessibility as a foundation for scalable design.Listen to discover how Will leverages design systems to drive scalability and growth in a multi-product organization.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestWill Rodenbough is a Senior UX Designer based in Seattle with over a decade of experience working at startups and industry-leading tech companies. He has been the design lead on the Avalara design system since its inception in 2018, collaborating with teams across the company to provide scalable and accessible solutions that emphasize a thoughtful balance between consistency and flexibility.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.In our first episode of 2025, Chris Strahl sits down with Adriana Morales, Design Principal at H-E-B, to explore the evolution, challenges, and triumphs of design systems in organizations at different stages of maturity. Adriana shares her journey from IBM to H-E-B, highlighting how each company’s unique financial priorities and cultural dynamics shape the mission and execution of their design systems. Together, they discuss the paradox of design systems: balancing constraints with creativity, and ensuring they enhance rather than hinder innovation. Adriana also offers actionable strategies for celebrating small wins, sustaining engagement, and demonstrating the tangible value of design systems across teams, leaders, and executives. Tune in for an inspiring start to the new year!View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestAdriana Morales is a Design Principal at H-E-B based in Austin, TX, where she uses systems thinking and radical collaboration to create scalable design systems, resources, and tools to bridge the gaps between design and engineering teams and build cohesive experiences. She believes in nurturing the next generation of designers to find clarity in complexity and uncover their hidden powers.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Evan Lovely, co-founder of Knapsack, returns to celebrate five years of innovation in design systems with Chris Strahl. They reflect on their journey from agency work to building a SaaS platform, sharing personal anecdotes and lessons learned. The importance of composability and constraints in design is highlighted, with insights on how AI is transforming the industry. They discuss recent shifts in design tools, the balance between flexibility and brand integrity, and the evolving role of community and empathy in the design ecosystem.

Send us feedback or episode suggestions.In this episode, Chris talks with Daniel Ley and Jonas Ulrich from KickstartDS, a framework designed to simplify design system creation and drive meaningful adoption. They dive deep into what adoption really means, moving beyond metrics like component coverage to focus on efficiency, team morale, and an iterative approach. Drawing on real-world examples like UNICEF Germany, they share how effective adoption strategies can reduce complexity, speed up delivery, and maximize impact. Tune in to learn how to measure and represent adoption in ways that truly reflect your design system's value!View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.GuestsJonas Ulrich and Daniel Ley are the founders of kickstartDS and owners of ruhmesmeile, a consultancy specializing in design systems and headless CMS. After over 15 years of experience developing websites and UIs as a traditional online agency, they sought to improve how teams work on web frontends. This vision led them to establish kickstartDS as a corporate venture in 2021, providing an open source meta framework for design system creation.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

In this engaging discussion, Ben Callahan, co-founder of Sparkbox and a creative force in design and development, dives into the profound impact of language on system design and team dynamics. He emphasizes how communication shapes cohesion and drives product innovation. Topics include balancing structure with flexibility to foster creativity, the importance of effective language to bridge gaps in understanding, and the role of collaborative systems in enhancing teamwork. Prepare for insights that blend technical expertise with human-centric design!

Andii Hei, a Senior Product Designer at Wesco, delves into the fascinating parallels between urban planning and design systems. They discuss how both fields share principles of structure and adaptability, while highlighting the importance of collaboration. Andii draws inspiration from diverse disciplines, emphasizing that regulations in design can spark creativity. The conversation also explores the transformative impact of AI on urban planning and the essential balance between human insight and technological advancements.

Allison Shaw, Director of Design for Adobe's Spectrum core team, shares her transformative journey in design systems. With a background at Yelp, Twitter, and Zendesk, she discusses the shift from designer to design leader, emphasizing the importance of humility and mentorship. Highlights include her role in shaping Adobe's cohesive branding, the evolution of design strategies from HTML to mobile, and the challenges of navigating management transitions. Allison's insights provide a roadmap for aspiring design leaders tackling complex organizational dynamics.

Alice Preisler, Product Owner of Design System at ADP, dives into the debate on whether design systems should start with components. She proposes focusing on documentation and design tokens instead. Alice shares her vision for using a linting tool to maintain design consistency and foster creativity within constraints. The conversation explores the complexities of localization, the necessity of solid documentation, and balancing speed with consistent design quality. It's an engaging discussion that challenges traditional notions and emphasizes structured workflows.

Catalina Manea, a Senior Designer at Spelunk with a deep-rooted background in graphic design, shares her transformative journey into systems-focused design. She dives into the importance of reusability and adaptability within design systems, emphasizing collaboration between designers and developers. Catalina argues that these systems are not just about aesthetics but also about functionality and enhancing teamwork. Empathy emerges as a key theme, underscoring the necessity for mutual understanding to tackle user needs effectively in agile environments.