Productive Flourishing Podcast

Angela joins Charlie on the episode today to share a special announcement. Along with their announcements, they discuss the seasons of change in our work and projects, and how you know if it’s time to take a break.Key Takeaways:[1:15] - The podcast is going on a season break between Season 4 and Season 5. Charlie and Angela have been doing the podcast for nearly four years now, and have decided to focus their energies on some new projects.[4:18] - When they were discussing the break, Charlie and Angela were talking about the seasons of life, the seasons of business, and the seasons of projects. While the podcast is a great project, it’s important for them to prioritize what they need to.[6:25] - Running a weekly podcast is a lot of work, and they have been reflecting on what that work displaces in other areas of their business. Charlie will be spending his time, energy, and attention on his book.[8:20] - Charlie and Angela wanted to talk about the thought process behind their break because many of us might have a project we’ve been working on and it might be time to go on a break or take some time off to focus on something else. If you do have a project like this, think about what you could do to take a break and recharge and reassess, and think about when a good time to do that would be.[10:00] - The important thing to consider when a project really matters to you is, are you giving it your all or are you just sort of skating by? Is the project you’re working on still the priority, and should it be?[11:52] - Before you take a break, celebrate what you’ve done and what you’ve created. This is their 200th episode for the podcast, and they’ve had at least 500,000 downloads, and have had 125 to 150 different guests on the podcast.[13:30] - Don’t worry, the show isn’t done! There are great guests lined up for Season 5, and they are planning some different directions the show is going to take.[14:52] - Charlie’s challenge for this episode is to think about what you might be doing that may benefit from a break, or some way for you to take a step back, celebrate what you’ve done, and come back to the project with renewed excitement and energy.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingFavorite Episodes This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Today’s guest joins us on the show for the fourth time. Susan Piver is the New York Times best-selling author of eight books, and the founder of The Open Heart Project, a completely virtual meditation center. Today, she and Charlie discuss the four noble truths of love, which is also the title of her new book. They also talk about how to minimize the suffering and discomfort that are part of all relationships.Key Takeaways:[2:40] - Susan’s new book is The Four Noble Truths of Love. This book presents a teaching that Susan made up, rather than her previous books that present Buddhist teachings.[5:15] - The four noble truths of love are based on the four noble truths in Buddhism, and reconfigured to apply to intimate relationships. The core of the book is about how to sustain relationships and give love. It is about the action of relationships.[8:10] - A relationship and a love affair are not the same thing. We assume our love affairs will turn into relationships, and our relationships will remain love affairs; unfortunately, this isn’t always the case. It’s important to identify which one you and your partner are doing, and not apply the same rules and expectations to both.[10:10] - The four noble truths in Buddhism are: 1) “The Truth” - Life is suffering. 2) “The Cause of Suffering” - Pretending that the first noble truth is not true. 3) “The Sensation of Suffering” - Now that you know what you’re doing to cause suffering, you can stop it. 4) The Eightfold Path - Eight things you do every day to bring about sensation of suffering.[12:00] - When Susan applied these four noble truths to her love life, she came up with her own four noble truths of love: 1) Relationships are uncomfortable - They never stabilize. 2) Thinking that relationships should be comfortable and stable is actually what causes more discomfort and instability than anything else. 3) Meeting that discomfort and instability together is love. 4) Three steps to achieve finding this love.[16:05] - Often in relationships we expect things to go a certain way, and when they don’t, that is where the suffering comes from. They don’t have to be big things; the day to day things can cause a tremendous amount of irritation. It’s important to notice these things, and pay attention to the suffering without making it more powerful than it is.[21:22] - What is most frightening to another person in a relationship is when we sense unconsciousness on the part of our partner. Mindfulness is key. The more awareness we can express, the better, especially about things you know your partner cares about.[28:05] - When the small things start to build up and become too much, that’s when we can return to the four noble truths of love. The closer we are with someone, the more our lives mix, and the less we are able to see them. The way we talk to ourselves mixes with the way we talk to the other person. And the person we love most often hears this voice as much as we do ourselves. The more you can espouse a kind voice in the way you talk to yourself, the more it will be heard by your partner as well.[30:35] - Charlie talks about the idea of how we form superorganisms in tight relationships. Meditation and mindfulness can be a reminder that we are our own beings with our own separate ways. The key thing to develop is awareness on three levels: you, your partner, and the both of you together (me, you, us).[36:50] - Buddhism is a doing/ practicing religion. In her book The Four Noble Truths of Love, Susan applied this to five steps to development and the eightfold path of love. The five steps are a way to develop confidence. Susan translated them into how they can apply to two people. The five steps are: 1) Clean up your room. 2) Eat good food/Share food today. 3) Pay attention to the way you look. 4) Spend more time together with people who you like and who like you. 5) Spend time together in the natural world. Doing these five things helps build a container for love that attracts love.[45:55] - The fourth noble truth of love has three components. The first type of qualities are foundational qualities (good manners and honesty). The second type of quality is called openness (the other person has equal importance to yourself in your relationship). The third quality is going beyond conventional view (look at all that happens between you and your partner as a way to deepen intimacy).[48:30] - Susan’s invitation/ challenge for listeners is to experience your deepest longings for love without a storyline attached to them. Just feel the longing; the longing is good.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingSusan PiverThe Four Noble Truths of Love, Susan PiverOther episodes with Susan:Productive Flourishing Podcast Episode 4: Become More Mindful with Susan PiverProductive Flourishing Podcast Episode 54: Demystifying Meditation with Susan PiverProductive Flourishing Podcast Episode 149: Susan Piver: How Mindfulness Helps You Become More CreativeWhen, by Dan Pink This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Liz is the founder and CEO of Sseko Designs, an ethical fashion brand that works to educate and empower women around the world. She joins Charlie on the show today to talk about how and why her brand started with employing high-potential women from Uganda, and what it does today for every woman in the Sseko network.Key Takeaways:[2:30] - Liz went to journalism school, and while there, she became interested in issues facing women and girls who were living in areas of extreme poverty and post-conflict zones. She moved to Uganda, and discovered a unique issue facing women there. During a transition period in their schooling, they had to return to their villages where they were competing for jobs with men in the village, and they also lost a lot of social support to continue on to University. In response to this problem, Liz started Sseko.[5:03] - She committed to three young women that if they made her sandals for the next three months, they would get to university in the fall. When she decided she was going to start a sponsorship-based non-profit charity, her research shifted her focus to something that was more about sustainability, job creation, and contributing to the export market. She tried a few other business ideas, and sandals worked. At the start of her business, Liz wasn’t really passionate about the business side, but over the course of her career, the business aspects have become something that fuels her.[8:45] - When starting her business, an important thing was recognizing the abundance of resources in both the United States and Uganda. For Liz, it was a two-way street between the material resources available in the US, and young people in need of a job in Uganda. What good businesses and marketplaces do well is come together to combine their resources to create something sustainable and mutually beneficial.[10:35] - Liz and Charlie talk about American culture, and the idea of building up the economies in these developing countries rather than exporting their labor and resources elsewhere. One of the most beneficial human interactions is one that’s mutually respectful. What Liz is trying to do with Sseko is create mutually beneficial relationships, from trade to the relationships between the people who work for the company.[12:50] - Liz talks about how the journey in Africa of empowering women to be equal partners in the marketplace compares to the journey we’ve been on in the US. The two journeys are pretty similar, and it all comes down to a power dynamic. There is a belief that the more women are empowered, engaged, and lifted up, the less power men will have. This is a false dichotomy. The challenges women are facing in East Africa are more dramatic and obvious than the challenges women in the US are facing. Liz talks about some of these real challenges that the women of Sseko face during the nine months they go back to their villages before University.[18:55] - Liz talks about their business model. Rather than a portion of the profits going to the women, they are a paid a monthly salary based on what they do and what their job is within the company. This salary would be about 2-3 times more than the proposed minimum wage in Uganda.[21:30] - At the original conception of her venture, Liz was very against it being a business (rather than a charity). She felt that most businesses contributed to a system where people were divided by who was privileged and who was oppressed. Liz didn’t want to be involved in that system, but when she got to Uganda, she realized that the tool of capitalism in the marketplace in business was amoral. It’s about how you do it, the decisions you make, and the spirit in which you do those things that can contribute to a system that creates mutually beneficial relationships.[24:50] - Though there are many businesses and business people that abuse the system, there are many more, like Liz, who use their business to create good in the world. For Liz, it was when she was in Uganda and thinking about her specific goals with her project that she realized her goals meant starting a business. Her model is capitalism for good.[27:45] - Liz’s biggest personal challenge as an entrepreneur is focus. Liz often finds herself bending the rules and going after the exception without realizing the cost on the overall mission. Her team helps keep her check and maintain focus so they are able to continue to help the most amount of people.[31:30] - The biggest challenge on the business side has been being a vertically integrated company. They currently run two different models - a manufacturing company and a sales/ distribution marketing company. These companies require different finance models, ways of running, and types of employees. So far, it’s a worthy challenge they are continuing to pursue. Charlie and Liz talk about what would have to happen for Sseko to reconsider this model.[35:50] - What does the future of retail look like? This is something that Liz has become interested in over the past few years. At Sseko, they shifted their model to be a direct sales model (women become spokespeople for their brands in their own communities and sell the product in their communities), as retail has moved away from brick and mortar to something more personal and social. E-commerce is taking over, but that takes away some of the experiential side of retail. Their direct sales model creates an engaging and community-oriented way of shopping. It’s almost like the future of retail is going back to the past.[41:52] - The direct sales model for Sseko specifically means that a purchase will help a woman in Uganda go to college, but also helps support the family of the woman in your community you bought a pair of sandals or a purse from. When we realize we’re all creators and makers and we all can contribute, then we start to break down the idea that we can’t buy or sell stuff to our friends.[43:10] - Liz’s invitation to listeners is to join Sseko; if you’re interested in being an entrepreneur, you can be a part of their community of dreamers, doers, and impact entrepreneurs. If you already have a product, think about how you can make an impact on your local community and in the global community.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingProductive Flourishing Podcast Episode 81: Changing the World, One Toilet at a Time with Jasmine BurtonSseko Designs This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Today’s guest is an avid runner, and part of a group that has run marathons on all 7 continents (yes, even Antarctica!). He joins Charlie today to talk about running these marathons, and the different and important lessons he learned on each continent. On the surface, the conversation is about marathons, but Charlie and Mike are really discussing the inner and outer journey of committing to a big goal, and what happens when you do.Key Takeaways:[2:15] – Mike grew up running, but was diagnosed with diabetes at age 30, and he started to get health-conscious. During the recession when he took a pay cut, Mike gave up golf and took up running.[4:10] – He joined a team and started training, and ran his first marathon in Cleveland, Ohio. His job position came with a lot of travel, and along the way he got connected with other people who were also runners. After he ran his first race abroad in the Netherlands, he fell in love with travelling and running. From then, he would work to schedule meetings and races in the same trip.[6:15] – Each continent was a different experience for Mike. In North America, at the Detroit Marathon, his big lesson was about family – no one will support you like your family.His lesson from the marathon in South America was that if you live with optimism, you can accomplish so much more than you think you can, just by having the right attitude and perspective of the world around you.The marathon in Africa was probably the most influential. The race he ran was part of the Tusk Charity, and during the work around the race, the lesson was that everyone has gratitude inside them, and it’s important to find it and express it.The lesson from Asia was that you need a team of professionals to get you to the finish line. There’s no reason that you can’t call upon the expertise of others to help you reach your goal.At the London Marathon in Europe, his big takeaway was that you can be successful. And when you are successful, you can give in abundance.He brought his daughter to his race in Australia, and was reminded that creating memories with your children and bonding with them is so important. Life moves fast, but you have to find the time to connect with your children.Finally in Antarctica, he learned the most important lesson. The training for this race was particularly hard, and so was the race. He was working with his doctor throughout this time, and it turned out he had a blockage in one of his arteries. This was a wake-up call for his health, and coming out on the other side of this was one of the best things that has happened to him.[15:45] – Running marathons on 7 different continents certainly represents a lot of dedication. This dedication translates to many other aspects of Mike’s life, especially his career. Marathons have been a different outlet and goal for Mike, and it’s something that takes a lot of time to train for. You always have to be looking at that next step in the progression to reach your goal.[18:30] – When running becomes part of your lifestyle, and you’re serious about your goals, the people around you start to become supportive. For Mike, as he started progressing through his goal, his coworkers started to back his progress and he was able to get the time off he needed to travel to run. He would also try to organize smaller runs for workers at the plants he would visit for business, and it got a lot of people interested in getting out to exercise.[21:40] – Mike experienced some injuries during the course of running these races, and did have to alter some plans to accommodate injuries. Mike never had doubts about accomplishing his goal of running all 7 marathons, but he did have to be flexible and attentive to his own needs to stay safe. What matters is that you keep moving forward even when things don’t go as planned.[23:35] – While today’s conversation is about running specifically, it is also applicable to much of the creative work we do in our lives. Some days we’re in it, and some days there are things that get in the way of making the progress we want. We may waver on goals if we’re not sure it’s something we’re going to accomplish. For Mike, once he stated his goal out loud, he knew he was going to do it. For him, the doubt would have come between the time he had the idea and telling the first person. Having a big goal helped him stay motivated.[27:25] – The race in Antarctica was the most difficult. The journey there was difficult, the course itself was tedious and monotonous, and the weather was not favorable. The reward and experience was well worth it; that was his 7th race so he received his 7 continents medal. The race he enjoyed the most was the one in Australia with his daughter.[31:55] – His most transformative run was his marathon in Africa, for many different reasons. The race itself was on a preserve, and he got a new appreciation for the importance of keeping those animals around. They also visited some schoolhouses, which was quite a humbling experience for Mike.[36:10] - The time after the 7 races were run was pretty difficult. There was celebration, but he also had his health scare. He had some procedures done for his arteries, but wasn’t prepared for the time after the surgery. The recovery was more difficult, and his medication had negative side effects. Mike used this opportunity to advocate for himself (and others) and to make some big changes to his lifestyle to ensure he would continue to be healthy.[42:25] - Sometimes, we may experience post-accomplishment depression after we achieve a big goal. Now that Mike has achieved the goal of running the 7 marathons, he’s looking for the next big goal. He would like to reach people through his story, and hopefully help some people who can benefit from his experiences.[44:05] - Mike is thinking his new big goal will be completing all 6 major marathons (London, Tokyo, Berlin, New York, Chicago, and Boston). Other than that, he’s continuing to work and travel and enjoy himself.[46:03] - Mike’s challenge for listeners is to do something that isn’t health-oriented, but rather a mentorship challenge. Mentorship is one of the most important things we can do. Find someone to mentor, and teach them to be a mentor. The only way you can sustain a model where mentorship is successful is if you teach people to be mentors.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingMike Silvio This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

On today’s episode, Angela sits down with Charlie to talk about debt. As they come to the end of this podcast season, they wanted to share some of the conversations they’ve had in their household as well as with their clients. We can think of debt as how much money we owe others, or economic debt, but the focus of today’s podcast is other types of debt that can weigh us down. Charlie and Angela talk about how debt in one area of our lives can affect all other areas, and getting over the shame can help us move forward into abundance.Key Takeaways:[3:00] - One of the conversations Charlie and Angela have been having lately is about debt. There are other forms of debt that weigh us down just the same as financial or economic debt. If you’re behind on a project, you might be in project debt. Just like with financial debt, it’s hard to get ahead because you’re trying to pay off the project debt while being presented with new tasks or projects. You can get stuck in a cycle of not making headway on the debt you already have, but also not saying no to new debt going forward.[4:50] - Bankruptcy can be a helpful term to apply to other kinds of debt, besides financial debt. If you’re presented with a lot of great opportunities you’re unable to engage with because of project debt from the past, you might call bankruptcy on that project and just let it be done. It’s not always an easy decision to make, but it’s important to listen to how our desires, energy, and focus evolve over time.[7:00] - The idea of debt and bankruptcy is an interesting concept when you start applying it to different areas of your life. There are many areas in life that we get behind and we’re not getting what we need. At this point, you have to stop and evaluate what it’s costing you to move forward in your current path.[8:15] - A lot of times, there is an emotional cost to owning a project. When you’re getting the project done, it can fuel you. On the flip side, when no progress is being made, it can be emotionally draining. Having a project that you’re not working on creates interest that you continually have to pay until you discharge it.[9:35] - There is some shame associated with project debt. It may be true that the way we manage our time and priorities leaves us in debt. However, that doesn’t have to be a source of shame. Once we get past the shame story, we can move into a time of recovery.[13:35] - It’s easy to let the debt in one area of our lives show up in every other area of our lives. Angela talks about how when she’s experiencing sleep debt, she is usually also experiencing project debt and relationship debt. This goes back to the idea Charlie mentioned earlier about symbiosis, and the idea that different parts of our lives can start to support each other.[17:15] - Charlie talks about the Greek nature of nemeses, and how our nemesis comes when we refuse to accept our limit. Until we embrace and work with that limit, our nemesis will always show up, because we’ve likely borrowed from other reserves in our lives. We need to take care of ourselves, because we can’t go all out all the time. Most creative people have some type of meditation practice that grounds them. If you can make 15 minutes of a meditation practice a priority, you can make other things a priority too.[22:10] - Often times we are aware that we have too much going on, but we can’t let it go. Really looking internally to figure out your priorities is a way to begin to let go. You might have debts that you’ve taken on, but may come to realize that you don’t have to pay and see them through.[23:40] - We get into debts because we don’t recognize our limits. We all have limits, and we cannot be, do, and have it all. It’s up to us to determine what those limits are in the different areas of our lives. When you give yourself permission to not be everything, you can work on finding your authentic core and make sure that’s how you’re showing up in your relationships.[27:15] - There isn’t enough time and energy for everything, but there is enough time and energy for the things that matter. We let the fear of missing out push us past our limits, and end up missing out on those things that matter most. The beauty of debt is that when you embrace debt, you can also embrace surplus at the same time.[30:15] - Wrapping our minds around the idea of limits can be saddening in some ways, and exciting and exhilarating in other ways. For Angela, it gave her the reassurance that it’s okay to ask for help. The people who are most successful in life know where their limits are, and know when they need to ask for help. Asking for help doesn’t mean that you’ve given up, or that you’re not enough.[32:50] - When you’re suffering, it’s hard to thrive. The message of hope for this podcast is that as you move forward, you suffer less and thrive more. Try to let go of the shame and see what you can do to get yourself out of debt and create the abundance that you want.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingSaneBoxProductive Flourishing Podcast Episode 183: Build Better Boundaries3 Ways to Deal with Your Nemesis, by Charlie Gilkey This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Marc and Angel Chernoff return to the podcast today to talk with Charlie about some of the key insights they’ve learned about finding your happiness, and always coming back to the rituals that create happiness each and every day. Taking ideas from their book, Getting Back to Happy, they also talk about how letting go of self-defeating stories is a continual practice, no matter where you are on your happiness journey.Key Takeaways:[4:05] - Angel and Marc recently released their new book, Getting Back to Happy. One of the main themes of the book is the power of rituals. If you want to make progress, you have to practice the little things every day that take you from where you are to where you want to be. Each chapter in the book leaves you with a ritual to practice. Their book is a reflection of their journey and growth over the past 10 years.[7:20] - Most people don’t think of rituals or habits as things that correlate to happiness. The focus of these rituals is to examine the daily actions that we do and see how they affect us. Rituals are like intentional discipline; in reality, once you embrace discipline, you also find freedom and happiness.[9:20] - When the habits you are disciplining yourself to do are meaningful to you, you start noticing the progress. Those habits become your new normal - this takes work. In the beginning it’s hard, but it leads to meaningful change. This discipline is especially applicable to people at the start of their creative journey.[13:40] - Everything is a process, and we often forget that. You have to take it slow with your personal and professional goals. You learn the way on the way.[15:20] - Marc and Angel are accidental self-help authors, but it’s because they were in a hard place in their lives. As they were helping each other through their situation, they started to dive into personal development. Their blog started as a public accountability journal, and as it resonated with other people, they moved into more serious coaching, and writing books and courses. Their work is incredibly rewarding because it’s incredibly personal for them.[19:30] - Marc, Angel, and Charlie discuss the timeline for some of these creative projects. It can take years to get to where you want to be, but each step you take in that direction is important. As long as you’re learning and hopefully making an impact, it’s okay if you’re not where you want to be right now.[23:05] - Getting back to happy is something that is practiced consistently on a daily basis for years. This is especially true for grief. There is not a quick fix to feeling better, but journeying through it can change the whole trajectory of your life, and looking back, there is a tremendous amount of growth. Even if you’re working through hard stuff, it can be joyful along the way.[29:05] - The hard work is always worth it. It’s important to remember this when you’re going through a personal struggle, or when you want to move a business or an idea forward. It’s about investing in the small things you have to do daily to accomplish the hard thing.[31:10] - Removing the boundary of time can open up so many more opportunities. Charlie talks about second and third acts - your career doesn’t have to be over when you reach a certain age. How do you want to be spending your time? We have to be respectful of our time, but it’s never too late to make a small shift.[35:15] - Marc and Angel are big proponents of daily journaling or reflection. Doing that every day brings awareness to the things you’re learning, the things you want to accomplish, and the things you’re grateful for. This is where you notice your progress, and noticing progress is what makes us happy.[36:10] - One of the things Marc and Angel talk about in their book is motivation, in relation to our rituals. One of the big things is understanding your why: why do you want to be happier? Maybe it’s for your family, or your health. Knowing your why will keep you motivated when you’re having to do the hard things. On the flip side, you can ask yourself what’s holding you back, and what rituals you need to put in place to correct that (or what rituals you need to change).[39:55] - Our thoughts are so powerful. Everything we are telling ourselves is a story we’re telling ourselves based on our own personal experience. Realizing and embracing the fact that the stories we are telling ourselves do affect the way we step into present situations is the key. At the end of the day, the thoughts we have affect our motivation, our emotional energy, and what we put in the world.[42:55] - Writing down your thoughts also serves as an archive, so you can come back to these thoughts when you’re more removed from the situation. You can reflect on these thoughts and see how it’s affecting your ability to take the next step. If these thoughts are our story, we also have the ability to see a new story, or react differently to the story.[45:03] - So often we say we are stuck because of our situation, instead of taking responsibility and recognizing that we’re better and stronger and actually able to move forward. When you’re at the point that you can indeed move forward, you have to connect yourself to that truth. In these scenarios, you may have to choose the truth that you can accept at that time. It’s about the small steps.[49:25] - Where are Marc and Angel growing now? Over the past twelve years there has been a lot of growth for both of them, and they’ve got their book coming out, but there are still struggles they are facing. Marc has a fracture in his foot. That’s taken him back a few steps, but he keeps it in perspective by looking at the things he has to be grateful for. This is a great example that the self-evaluation piece is a constant process. Even though helping others learn self reflection is Marc and Angel’s work, they still have to practice too.[54:52] - When we’re put in situations that challenge our thoughts, or opportunities that are outside our comfort zone, we have to take time to sort those thoughts out and take it one step at a time. Getting Back to Happy is a toolbox that has helped Marc and Angel get through these challenges, and can help us too. Our rituals may have to change, but it’s important to adapt our rituals to keep moving forward.[1:00:10] - When you’re at the lowest of your lows, and you need something more, help somebody else. Take the focus off not feeling like enough and put it on some else who feels like they aren’t enough. When we help others, we help ourselves.[1:01:25] - Marc and Angel’s challenge for listeners is to stick to or build a small ritual into your life that you know has meaning and will add value to you and those around you. Take a walk, journal the things you’re grateful for, and do something small like this for 60 days. Also, look at what your daily rituals currently are, and maybe remove something that’s not feeding you in a positive way.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingProductive Flourishing Podcast Episode 83: How to Be Grounded and Positive Through Life’s ChallengesMarc and Angel ChernoffGetting Back to Happy, by Marc and Angel Chernoff the bookGetting Back to Happy CourseResults Resourcing (use code: PFPOD)SaneBoxThe Indicator, Podcast by Planet Money This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Laurence McCahill is the co-founder of The Happy Startup School, a global community that’s now 100,000 people strong. He joins Charlie today to discuss the idea of the “happiness trap,” a belief that many entrepreneurs have that they can either make money, do good, or be happy, but not all three at the same time. They also discuss the productive benefits of taking time out.Key Takeaways:[4:50] - Laurence and his partner started The Happy Startup School back in 2013, with the purpose to get people to think about not only the money side of their business, but what’s driving them personally and what kind of impact they want to have. It’s about aligning the need to make money, stay well, and make a difference. Their model is a venn diagram with three circles: money, purpose, and happiness. Ideally, people would be in the intersection of all three circles for a healthy balance.[7:40] - Many people have the idea that you can be productive or you can take care of yourself. They’re not mutually exclusive! If you view being productive as only doing the things that make money, you’ll miss out on a lot of other aspects of life (family, community involvement, etc). You can also easily get caught up in work, and sometimes, to be most productive there, you may need to walk away and clear your head every once in a while.[10:30] - In addition to taking care of ourselves because it’s the right thing to do, there are also economic arguments to support that. Laurence references The Lazy Guru and some of their meditation principles. When you create space to look after yourself, amazing things happen. But if you don’t give yourself a chance to go there, you won’t know.[12:10] - Three insights from The Lazy Guru are 1) Creating space with no purpose - put faith in space, 2) The concept of Beditation - the idea of just sitting in bed, and 3) The thundering herds of “shoulds” - the things we place on ourselves because we feel like we should be doing them. For the third point, these “shoulds” only have power if we accept them to be valid or relevant for our situations.[14:20] - Especially if you’re running a business, you may look at your competitors and think you should be doing the same things they’re doing. We assume that these things are working for them, and they may actually not be. You have to think about what is relevant for you and your business, and also look for evidence that whatever actions your competitors are taking are actually working for them.[16:05] - Along with the Happiness Trap model, there are four different archetypes that describe where people fit into the venn diagram. The first is the rat racer, or someone who is fully in the money zone. The purpose-seeker is someone who is doing work that makes them happy, but there’s something missing and they’re still trying to find their purpose. The slave is someone who has found the money and the purpose, but they’re often putting others before themselves and working long hours so their self-care isn’t a priority. The last archetype is the idealist. Idealists usually have a negative relationship with money. You may flip-flop between some of them depending on the day.[20:40] - There are a lot of people in places that are growing who are very purpose-driven, but the large majority of people are still disengaged in their work and stuck in the rat race so that purpose and their own well-being becomes a luxury. There is a myth (maybe influenced by the Protestant work ethic) that our happiness comes as a byproduct of our work. When you let that go and change your mindset, you can start to find a better balance.[24:20] - Charlie talks about Plato’s allegory of the cave of deception/illusion. In life, it is constant work to get out from underneath all the societal “shoulds” that push you back into the same habits. In Laurence’s work, he focuses on the science of happiness and non-violent communication to help break the cycle of the cave and focus on the needs to make the business thrive in the long term.[28:00] - Businesses are meant to solve human aims, not necessarily follow metrics of other businesses. It’s important to build your company on things and ideals that motivate you and are nourishing for you. This can get tricky when you start talking about sales, but there are healthy ways to sell. When you believe in your product and it embodies your values, it becomes more about sharing the product.[33:21] - What are the three biggest challenges Laurence has seen in his community as people try to find alignment? The first is knowing where to start - think big, start small. The second thing is that many of these people are alone, or in a world that’s very different than the one they want to be in. The people around them aren’t necessarily supportive of what they want to do. The third is the unknown unknowns - there are so many things you don’t know as you’re starting out in business. Embrace everything as a chance to learn.[36:35] - When starting a business, resilience is more important than talent. If you have high resilience, it’s easier to learn from your experiences as you go. Laurence talks about equanimity, or the idea of how you react to the high and lows of business. How you handle rejection is important in how you will move forward.[40:55] - Laurence’s business partner is actually an old school friend, which has been a real strength for the business. But they do face some challenges in their business. One big challenge is building a movement and a business at the same time. Another challenge is the events they put on, though they aren’t sustainable year-round. They’ve had to balance the events with building their online community. The last challenge is knowing how big they want to get, or how big they can get and still effectively share their message. Right now, they are operating with a small team that makes a big impact.[46:30] - Charlie and Laurence talk more about the idea of a small team and a big impact. In any business, it’s important to consider the impact you want to have, and how big your business needs to be to make that happen.[49:35] - Another thing to keep in mind when building a business on happiness is to remember that when you’re looking at other businesses, they are curated experiences. When you’re looking for evidence of what’s working, realize you’re getting a curated experience and you may need to dig a little deeper to figure out what else they might have had to go through to get there. That’s why at The Happy Startup School they share so much in their writing, so people know the ups and downs and it helps to build trust in their brand.[51:53] - Laurence’s invitation for listeners is to take some time out to look after yourselves. When you just take time for yourself, with no intention or purpose behind it, you can create the space to let your thoughts and ideas come.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingThe Happy Startup SchoolThe Writer’s Process, by Anne JanzerThe Lazy Guru’s Guide to Life, by Laurence ShorterThe Happy MovieInsanely Gifted, by Jamie CattoResults Resourcing (use code: PFPOD)SaneBox This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Amber Rae is the author of Choose Wonder Over Worry. She joins Charlie on the podcast today to talk about how worry shows up in our lives, and how we can convert our worry stories to wonder. This episode can be very helpful for creatives in the midst of finishing their best work, as they look at the patterns that come up when doing so, and how Amber herself worked through them as she was finishing her book.Key Takeaways:[3:40] - Worry seems to be our natural state - we spend so much of our lives worrying, and we often make our decisions from a place of worry. Amber experienced this with the start of her book; she put off her book for several years because of insecurities and fears and doubts, and one day she had a wake up call that it was time to go all in on the book.[7:50] - In their creative careers, many people reach a place that is really good, but there’s often fear that if you let go of the good things, that you either won’t replace them, or you have to face what you’ve been putting off. Amber was pursuing projects that she was good at, but they weren’t what she was here to do (write her book). She talks about the zone of excellence versus the zone of genius.[10:15] - Amber had an interesting experience during the course of writing her book. Rather than starting with a structure, she started with the stories she was aching to tell. Throughout the writing process, she had to cultivate awareness of when her thoughts were coming from a place of worry. She used her worries as fuel for what she wrote about and also reacted to her own stories and experiences during the writing process.[16:55] - The idea of choosing wonder over worry isn’t just about coming from worry, but there’s a deeper meaning of getting curious and wondering about your worries. When we engage with our worries, we can figure out if they will serve us or hold us back.[19:00] - Choose Wonder Over Worry talks about different kinds of worries, and the different ways that worry shows up. One of the big ways worry shows up is time. Instead of “I don’t have enough time,” it’s more about noticing what your priorities are. Another big way is “the myth of not enough,” where we feel we are not enough or don’t have enough to do what we want to do.[21:45] - Charlie talks about the difference between aspirations and priorities. Oftentimes, we think our aspirations are our priorities, when really our priorities lie elsewhere. Being aware of this difference can guide our actions. More often we find out that our actions don’t necessarily reflect our priorities, even if our talk does. Wondering about our actions is just as important as wondering about our worries. Understanding what’s motivating our actions provides an opportunity for self-compassion.[26:55] - The top three worries that require the most intentionality for Amber are 1. “I’m not good enough” 2. “Will they hate it?” and 3. “Can I handle how people respond to this?” The work is not to get rid of our worries, but to learn how to have a relationship with these things. Amber focuses her stories on some of the low points and the struggles, and with that comes a fear of vulnerability.[31:15] - Amber has also faced some rejection during this whole process. Rejection triggers a part of our brain that is responsible for physical pain. In any creative process, each stage is going to have that question of rejection. The question becomes how do we build resilience, and keep showing up when we hear “no?”[35:10] - We spend a lot of time trying to make our naysayers happy, and not focusing on the majority of people who support it (including ourselves). As artists, we need to get to the point where we can understand that sometimes our art may not reach certain people and that’s okay. There is also a balance where we can accept honest feedback about our work. As an artist, find people that you trust to give you honest feedback about how to make things better.[38:30] - Throughout her writing process, Amber had a set of friends that she trusted who she would give the work to to provide feedback. You have to find who these people are for you, and be open to what they have to say. Equally important is to take what resonates with you to make changes that fit the integrity of your project.[41:55] - Amber wrote her book in two and a half months. When she got the deal, they gave a deadline, and she went to Bali and shut out the world. The structure of the book emerged through characters she met herself as she was writing the book.[45:15] - For many creatives, their practices involve making concepts or ideas tangible and concrete in some way. Getting the stories out into the world and externalizing our ideas helps free up brain space.[47:18] - The sweet spot for Amber’s creative work is getting to a point where success or failure doesn’t matter, but it’s more about the focus on the journey of learning. This focus seems to be more productive rather than chasing a certain outcome.[48:00] - Right now, Amber’s biggest worry is that she will be abandoned, because she doesn’t have many successful models of relationships in her life, and she began to experience that with her fiance. She’s been working through this by realizing that she will never leave herself. So many of our fears and worries and doubts are like small children inside of us that are longing for our attention, compassion, and love. It is important to love these parts of ourselves and give ourselves comfort and compassion rather than shame.[51:25] - Amber’s invitation and challenge for listeners is to notice when you’re approaching a situation or opportunity with worry or wonder. Be aware of your story and the thoughts you’re having and where you’re coming from. Notice, and cultivate your awareness.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingAmber RaeAmber Rae on InstagramChoose Wonder Over Worry, by Amber RaeThe Artist’s Way, by Julia CameronResults Resourcing (Use code: pfpod)SaneBox This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Mary Shores is the author of Conscious Communications, a step-by-step guide to harnessing the power of your words to change your mind, your choices, and your life. She joins the show today to talk about how neurophysiology, our words, and other people’s behavior affect our ability to create the life we want to live. Today’s conversation is about how and where to make small changes that get us closer to our ideal lives and selves. Mary has been involved in many things in her professional career – she’s been a CEO, runs a debt collection service, and has been a student in personal development and self-improvement.Key Takeaways:[5:05] – Many people have learned to expect instant transformation – we read a book and suddenly everything is going to change. In most cases, the things we need to change are going to play out over a period of time. Mary’s personal journey put her in a position to expect this instant change.[6:53] – Mary was a weekend workshop warrior, but what she began to notice about these events and the people at them, is that they are often riding on the emotions of the event. These events are productive and encouraged, but it’s important to remember that the real transformation will occur in small changes that happen over time after the event.[8:00] – Charlie and Mary discuss some of the ways neurophysiology can affect these feelings of transformation. Mirror neurons can cause us to feel what the people around us are feeling (whether positive or negative). Mary talks about a phenomenon that whenever we’re in proximity to other people, our brain waves begin to wire in a pattern together.[12:15] – In philosophy, there’s a topic called The Great Indignities of Science. Charlie briefly discusses these, and how these can help shape the way we think about our place in the world. Science can be very humbling, and there are still many things we are learning about science that will continue to shape and define the way we think and feel.[13:30] – Mary talks about the monkey experiment that was how they discovered mirror neurons. When the monkey saw a person eat a peanut, their responses measured the same as if the monkey itself was eating the peanut. The 100th Monkey Effect describes a scenario where one group of monkeys started washing potatoes because they enjoyed the taste, and once that number reached a certain critical mass, then monkeys on another island started to wash their potatoes without any instruction. This happens with the human mind too – once a certain collective of humans start to think a certain way, another group of humans will simultaneously start to have these thoughts.[17:15] – There are phenomena that we know happen, even if we don’t know how or why they happen. But along with what we don’t know, there are things we do know about the brain. We can take the things that we do know are true and apply them to our lives, and have results based on the knowledge we do have. Mary talks about how she changed her philosophy in her debt collection services based on what she knew would trigger people. She came up with a “do not say” list for her office: no, not, can’t, won’t, however, and unfortunately. In the office they replace that list with words that inspire confidence and trust with the client, and triggers the opposite system in the client (parasympathetic nervous system).[20:25] – When Mary decided she wanted to write a personal development book, she started to research the effect in communications with other people, as well as the effect it has on ourselves when we replace these words for more positivity. We are primed for certain types of experiences, but making changes in our words can cause these experiences to shift.[22:30] – Our responses are more than just a brain response, even more than a nervous system response. We’re triggered all day every day by things that keep us in a low level fight-or-flight, which means there is less of our body’s energy going to the brain for thinking of solutions. We become over-reactive people. In Mary’s debt collection service, their goal is to get clients to a place where they are neutral or ready to be receptive to a solution. Once they feel okay, then they can start talking about the solution.[25:10] – What are the ways we can apply the principles Mary uses in her business to our own lives? Words is one of the ways we can become more satisfied people and live meaningful, and happy lives. Shut off the valve of negative words to yourself; become aware of the words you say to yourself and how they’ve shaped your “barrier beliefs.” The way out of this is to invest in yourself, and give yourself the evidence to disprove your barrier beliefs. Mary shares her example of how she came to write her first book by overcoming her thought that she was not a writer.[30:15] – Growing up, we’re programmed with cultural and family of origin beliefs, and our education takes some of our natural human instincts away from us. The reality is, we understand neurological pathways and are in control of the programming we set for ourselves. We have the power to change any of the beliefs in our mind, we just have to start from somewhere. Start by creating daily practices where you are deciding on a new thought or belief in your subconscious. Creating new pathways will be easier than trying to get rid of the old ones.[34:20] - While we are capable of overriding our neuro processes, it’s not what we automatically do. It takes work to decide on a new thought process, especially when it comes to how we deal with and react to the people around us. We can change some of our initial reactions by being aware of those moments and ask what’s really going on and how we can make the situation better for the people around us.[40:00] - We can take these ideas about our initial reactions or what we’re “supposed to do,” and apply it to something relevant in our life. We don’t necessarily have to follow the trajectory that society has sort of set out for us. In fact, not following the status quo can help us find our true purpose. Dial back into what you love and what you’re good at, and feed your strengths.[45:15] - Mary is an example that we don’t have to follow rote behavior and the path that society laid out for us. She talks about growing up and taking care of her daughter that passed away, and how she was able to recover from that and start her own business at 24.[48:30] - There are different ways to show up and be in practices of transformation. Sometimes it’s external from a personal development teacher, or it can be internal and self-driven. It’s important to develop the internal engine, because when you’re doing it from a place of empowerment, what you create will be so much more.[51:10] - There are many different ways that we can be working on ourselves. Everything is a piece that goes to installing better programming in your subconscious. As you continue working on habits, you have to keep practicing things over and over as you become more accomplished and a more powerful self in the world.[53:35] - Mary has a Core 4 Goals. If you try to take on everything you want to change, it’s easy to get overwhelmed. The focus of the Core 4 are the four things you need to do to accomplish a larger goal (for Mary, writing her book). They help guide and prioritize your actions and your energies. As an example, the Core 4 for Mary’s Business are: sales, industry involvement, custom trainings, and using their branding. They say ‘yes’ to things that support those four, and they say ‘no’ to the things that are outside of those four.[57:30] - Mary’s invitation for listeners is to think about the concept that everything you say and do, is either creating a deeper connection or it’s driving a disconnection. How will you let the words you use create the life you want to live?Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingMary ShoresConscious Communications, by Mary ShoresResults Resourcing (use code PFPOD)SaneBoxScientists found a 'new organ', but it might not be what you're expecting, by Claire Maldarelli for Popular ScienceAkimbo Podcast by Seth Godin Episode 6: Don’t Fear Placebos This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Stan Tatkin is a PACT developer, and co-founder of the PACT Institute. PACT stands for Psycho-biological Approach to Couples Therapy. Stan joins Charlie on the show today to discuss why couple relationships are so hard, at the same time that they are so great and necessary. The main challenges stem from the fact that we are reactive beings first and fast, and thoughtful, loving beings second and slowly. Knowing this about ourselves allows us to build relationships that enable us to thrive.Key Takeaways:[3:05] – Relationships are an important part of our lives, at the same time that the challenges with those relationships can be a bad part of our lives. Relationships are hard, because people are difficult. Some in particular are harder than others - love relationships (like that of a parent and child) are hard because they are long-memory and dependency relationships. In our other relationships, we can try to resolve the problems in that primary relationships.[5:50] - We are memory-driven, and when we do things according to recognition, it’s lightning fast while thinking is very slow. Our brains are also fully automatic, and this can cause us to go on autopilot in our relationships. We can start to make errors in communication and perception, which can lead to fights in a relationship.[7:05] - The cognitive aspects of our decisions translate over to our emotional behaviors as well. We are more likely to act and react according to recognition. The emotional reaction comes after. Our survival instincts often lead us to go to war over love.[10:20] - Stan and Charlie discuss being feeling beings over thinking beings. As much as we believe we are thinking beings, we are really feeling beings first.[13:00] - It would be ideal if early education covered how to learn, and also how to be in relationships. Students would learn what relationships are, and what it means to be in a relationship. This might foster learning how you feel in different scenarios as well, and widening the range of emotions (Charlie likens this to primary colors). We also have primary emotions, and as we grow up we begin to feel more, and get blended emotions. Some people have alexithymia, where they don’t know what they are feeling.[17:10] - Stan doesn’t have a statistic on how many people are affected by alexithymia, but it’s a developmental capacity model, so it looks at what people can and cannot do in the social/ emotional realm. Some of the limitations in the social/ emotional realm can cause problems in our love relationships. Stan provides some specific examples of how this can play out.[19:38] - As humans, we are more primed for war and fighting, and we have unequal capacities in the emotional realm. When we add our historical relationships into our new relationships, that’s where the complexities arise. While we are primed for fighting, we are also dependent on relationships with others. They often interfere with our other need to survive; this creates a constant tension between our need to depend on others and our fear of getting hurt.[22:18] - The good news is that there are ways to understand this complexity so that it doesn’t become such a problem. You can confide in a trusted person, but love relationships also provide tremendous repair. It is up to us to foster our love relationships to be productive rather than destructive.[24:50] - Relationships are work - we have to work to get them to where we want to be so we can thrive together. There are some indicators that might predict relationships that don’t work out. On a biological level, two nervous systems may be so reactive that they don’t get along. The things people do as mistakes are: 1. They come from an insecure model where the family operates unfairly and unjustly too often, and they carry that forward into their own relationships that accrue this same unfairness 2. They don’t understand the primacy of the relationship, and don’t understand third things that are added to the relationship that take time away from the pair 3. They don’t have a sense of purpose or vision, or a sense of why they are together.[29:35] - How do we come up with the guiding principles and vision in a relationship? It is almost irresponsible to not make the time to think about this. As you are coming up with principles that will protect you from each other, think about the intention behind each principle. There are shared beliefs that are fairly universal, and these can guide you in coming up with the vision for your relationship.[32:55] - In a relationship, as you start defining your principles and vision, make sure you also agree on the purpose behind it. Challenge each other to explore why the vision serves a personal good and a mutual good. Practice full transparency without conditions.[35:35] - What are general dealbreakers people should look for as they start to have these conversations? One of them is the transparency without conditions, and finding someone who believes the same. Deal breakers will eventually get to people. If you disagree on fundamental items, it will perpetuate the same problems down the road.[37:55] - Some people are under the assumption (and hope) that the other person in the relationships, or they themselves, will change their stance on one of the deal breakers. As a couples therapist, Stan doesn’t see that this usually works out. It is hard because people don’t want to experience the loss. It is very painful, but there would be worse things to come other than breaking up.[41:05] - There is a difference between surviving and thriving in a relationship. You can survive by negotiating on your non-negotiables, but it is hard to thrive in a relationship like that. As change is the only constant, even as a thriving couple, time may change your views on these non-negotiables. A task throughout the relationship is to know how people are going to adjust, and how they’re going to bargain so it’s good for both people in the relationship.[43:26] - People may resist taking the time to outline some of these non-negotiables and their vision, because they are afraid there is something they will have to change or something will come up that they don’t want to face. This is part of the human condition; people don’t always show exactly what they want, even to themselves.[45:04] - When you’ve been in a relationship for a long time, like Charlie and Angela, it may be a good time to occasionally come together to talk about some of the decisions you’ve made previously and make sure that you’re still on the same page. Charlie shares the example of himself and Angela and the topic of having kids. Even if the relationship is comfortable, it could be productive to check in and make sure it’s still set up for the couple to thrive.[47:37] - Recommitment offers a time to remarry and redo your vision for the future. As you move through time together, there are a number of things that can change the playing field. It’s hard to get people to do this proactively, but it could save a marriage (or relationship). The fear of loss can be a good motivator for coming to terms with what you could now agree on.[49:30] - Stan doesn’t want couples to fear each other, except for in one sense. At any time, either person involved has the power to pull the trigger on the other, and leave the relationship. This gives rise to a kind of respect in the sense that there are lines you don’t cross. Both people need to make sure their needs are being met.[51:40] - When someone is giving up their sense of self or their sense of fairness, it will backfire on both partners. This might become a therapeutic issue, and often when previous offenses show back up. These things can be corrected quickly if people have the right attitude.[54:45] - Stan’s invitation for listeners is to come to one of the couples retreats coming up. He challenges listeners to come up with a plaque-able “10 Commandments” for your relationship. Don’t overthink this - it should be easy and simple to understand.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingRelationships Are Hard, But Why?, TEDx Talk by Stan TatkinStan TatkinThe PACT InstituteDaughters, by John MayerSaneBox This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe