Productive Flourishing Podcast

As the release date for the book draws nearer, Charlie reflects on the ups and downs of the journey of this book. Angela joins Charlie on the podcast to ask some questions about the book. In this episode, Charlie shares some of the ideas and dichotomies around productivity, and how his book seeks to help people understand productivity in a new light. This episode is sure to get you excited about reading the book yourself - there is something in it for everyone.Key Takeaways:[0:05] - Charlie’s new book, Start Finishing: How to Go From Idea to Done will be released on September 24th, 2019. Productivity is how we become our best selves in the world. The book covers tools, practices, and mindsets that will help you finish the stuff your soul is yearning to do. There are contributions from Charlie’s friends, colleagues, and teachers. If you’d like to pre-order a copy, click the link below.[4:35] - Angela has played an active role in Charlie’s writing process. She inspires his writing and they both have been readers of each other’s work for a long time. After reading the completed manuscript, Angela was surprised at how much the book resonated with her, since she’s been engaged in Charlie’s work almost as long as he has.[8:10] - Part of the joy surrounding how the book develops is writing for some specific people. These early people support you and can also give you feedback as the book comes together.[9:20] - The book is much more than a productivity book; it seeks to guide our productivity from the heart and the soul. What sets this book apart is the scope of people it has been able to reach, even before its release. The productivity space hasn’t always been accessible to all people, especially those who are underdogs.[13:15] - We need to talk as much about the work of lives as we do about the life of our work. The talk in society often talks about economic work, which is the centerpoint of everyone’s life. Women are often left out of this conversation, due to sometimes having to prioritize others’ needs before their own.[14:50] - Productivity started as a means of increasing the amount of yield from workers. It has transformed to us figuring out how we are going to get everything done that we need to - relationships, ourselves, finances, health, and all the different things we have to take care of in addition to economic work.[16:15] - A project is anything that takes time, energy, and attention to see through. In that context, all the stuff in our life is a project. Once we can step away from that overwhelming feeling of all the projects we’re juggling, we can figure out how to work through and solve that overload.[19:05] - “Work” is a four-letter word that is sometimes associated with other words that we want to avoid and get away from. We’ve gotten to a point where we want to do less work, except for our “best work.” This is work that benefits us and others when we do it; we want to do more of this type of work.[21:15] - Talking about doing the work we are called to do can sometimes seem selfish. Charlie seeks to shift the conversation to highlight that other people tend to benefit from our best work. Our best work is uniquely ours - this is important to remember because it can keep you going when you’re in a low place. The projects that fuel our best work are easily displaced by other people’s projects - be careful when saying yes to short-term work from others, even when that can be scary.[24:45] - Sometimes your best work may not be in the same line as your economic work. There is honor in doing your economic work that serves you and your family (bills, well-being, etc), but this displaces the time we have to focus on our best work. We may not always be able to find an economic outlet for our best work, but that is okay. Just because you can’t get paid to do it, doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing.[27:15] - We almost all have some wasted time that we can steal to work on our best work. For some this is recovery time, but we should think about whether it is serving us more than other things, like spending time with our families, playing music, etc. Once you determine your priorities, stop beating yourself up about the things you aren’t doing.[28:40] - Michelle Jones is the founder of the Wayfinding Academy. She is an example of someone who used their economic work to inspire a pivot into their best work. Look for ways you can shift aspects of your economic work to do it in a way that only you can, that transforms it from merely economic work to something that’s got your fingerprint on it.[31:35] - Another aspect of the book focuses on the support system around us that can help us create things in the world. It’s hard to do your best work alone. A success pack is a pack of people that you put around yourself specifically for projects, and for our lives in general.[34:50] - People you don’t want in your success pack: naysayers and derailers. Naysayers are the ones who hate on you, whether it’s about you or about your project or about a grudge they hold. We spend too much time trying to please our naysayers. Derailers are people who may be well-meaning, but their commentary about your work discourages you. They often are loved ones, but it can take too much energy to incorporate them into the success pack of your project.[38:15] - Focus on your yaysayers. These are the people who have your back, and when you talk about your project, they ask you about how you’re going to be successful, not whether you will be. They know and realize your potential, often before you do. There are four types of yaysayers: guides, peers, supporters, and beneficiaries.[43:25] - People usually want to get more guides on their projects, but Charlie encourages people to find more beneficiaries for their projects. When you get stuck, you can ask the person that you’re building it for. It can also help fuel you when you’re emotionally stuck because you remember that it’s not all about you.[46:25] - The more a project matters to you, the more you’re going to thrash with it. If it doesn’t call up longing and frustration, it’s probably not your best work. The reason this work matters so much is because we’ve most closely tied our identities to these projects. If we’re not successful, what does that mean about who we are?[49:25] - Many of us have internalized that if it’s our best work, it should be easy. This is a myth! We get good at something by doing it, and anything worth doing is worth doing badly at the beginning.[52:00] - Angela talks about some of the different roles and people Charlie has been in his past: growing up in the South in a poor biracial family, an Eagle Scout, a military leader, a philosopher, a spiritual person. As he was writing, whatever came up came out. Sometimes different aspects of his background came through in certain parts.[59:15] - This book is a productivity book, but it’s also a personal development book. It’s a book about family, and a book about spirituality. It’s a book about everything that makes us thrive as people. The process has been incredibly humbling for Charlie, especially with all the contributors. Through this book, Charlie hopes that people see that there is a lot of goodness and abundance around us, and that we have to do the work to harness it.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingStart Finishing, by Charlie GilkeyWhat If Women Cared About ProductivityWayfinding AcademyMichelle Jones on LinkedInSaneBoxSounds True This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Mark Nepo returns to the show as today’s guest to talk about his new book, Drinking From the River of Light: The Life of Expression. Charlie and Mark talk about why it’s so important that we express ourselves, the tensions we live in as we seek to express ourselves as creative people, how we are more likely to be Renaissance souls, and what thrashing inner work is really telling us. Both Mark and Charlie share some of their creative process, to hopefully inspire your own.Key Takeaways:[0:05] - Charlie’s new book, Start Finishing: How to Go From Idea to Done will be released on September 24th, 2019. Productivity is how we become our best selves in the world. The book covers tools, practices, and mindsets that will help you finish the stuff your soul is yearning to do. There are contributions from Charlie’s friends, colleagues, and teachers.[5:30] - The inspiration for Mark’s new book actually came from a workshop he created. The book explores the deeper need that we all have to develop a personal form of expression. He likens it to the heart needing to breathe. There is an inhalation, and our exhalation is some sort of creative expression that can be any passion project.[8:15] - Mark had the outline of the workshop around while finishing up some other books, and began to combine this outline with the stories and materials he had from other artists and teachers. The key to getting everything together was listening to the material, rather than imposing his will upon it. This compliments Elizabeth Gilbert’s thoughts on how ideas find people, and if they are ready for the idea, it sticks around. If not, ideas move on to something else.[13:05] - Mark shares how his experience with cancer in his 30’s changed his understanding of art and expression. Everyone has their own wisdom, but we often create from a space of what we need to learn.[15:50] - Mark and Charlie talk about the dichotomies of success and failure in creative work, and how it compares to other environments, like sports. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves in our creative expression, expecting to be able to hit it every time. Unless we open up to those vulnerabilities, there’s no growing.[18:58] - The spiritual life, the philosophical life, and the creative life are all about sitting in tension with two contradictory truths at the same time. We can’t be stuck in the mindset of hit or miss while creating our work, but when we’re finished, this is often the first thing we evaluate. We need to have dreams, goals, and ambitions; we need these things to get us to what we can’t even foresee.[24:05] - A theme for Mark and Charlie is that as they create, they are being created. The tension lies in not knowing what will manifest until it manifests, even if we think we know. Charlie would write down anything that came up, in case it was blocking something else that needed to come out. Mark talks about some of his own creative process, and how research on a topic can lead to the creation of a whole new book or story.[28:45] - We often discover material rather invent it. This requires us to surrender some control and open ourselves up to allow that discovery. Virtue is our tendency toward unity, and the creative process is about discovering the connections that are always present even when we are unaware of it. The reward for this is that we then become one and can achieve unity.[34:45] - In his new book, Mark utilizes poetry as a tool for expression. For him, poetry is the unexpected utterance of the soul, rather than a manipulation of words. Everyone can be a poet; discover your own vibrant link to the truth of what it is to be here.[38:23] - Mark talks about poet/artist William Blake, and the connection between his poems and his visual art. Expression can come to us in many ways, and some artists’ most important work can be classified as an unexpected medium from what we usually think.[40:55] - Everybody has the same starting point and access to gifts. Everyone is a Renaissance soul; outside pressures generally dictate that we need to become a specialist at any given craft. Everyone’s aliveness is connected to their attendant spirit.[44:05] - The value of our consciousness is that we can gain insight and wisdom so we don’t have to relearn or re-invent tasks. It can create assumptions and conclusions, but expression allows for us to release those assumptions and conclusions so our consciousness is fresh. What comes through during this process is the unexpected utterance of the soul.[47:40] - In his book, Charlie talks about the pain of not creating or finishing what matters as creative constipation. If you’re experiencing frustration because you can’t achieve this clarity, there may just be some things you need to get out in order to allow that. Writer’s block often indicates that we need need to clear things out to be present again, rather than not having anything to say. In these times, Mark seeks out an experience of something new.[50:43] - What oftens stops us up is the legion of preferences we accumulate in our minds. This can close us off from experiencing new things. The shadow of consciousness is self-consciousness; seek out the prompts that are heartening and avoid those that are disheartening.[53:40] - It’s important to notice our behavior and trace it back. In his book Charlie talks about thrashing, and how we begin to recognize our behavior when we’re thrashing, and how we can catch and correct it. Sometimes when things seem too easy, it may be an indication that we are stuck, much like salmon swimming upstream.[58:20] - Mark talks about his process of working on multiple books at one time. Leaving the subject matter of one and researching the other can sometimes form ideas for the original book. Thrashing is a sign that we are doing something that matters.[1:00:55] - Mark celebrates the end of a project usually in a quiet, reflective state. Having now written over 20 books, Mark knows his tendencies. For him, one of the most transformative moments in the life of a work is the retrieval of the first draft. The joy in expression comes when we’re in the verb, as opposed to the noun.[1:06:25] - Mark has two invitations for listeners. The first is for listeners to come on a journey with him - visit the website linked below for information on the different opportunities Mark will be offering in the coming year. His second invitation, whether you feel you’re an artist or not, is to try to practice in the next week a way that you perceive you inhale with your heart, and exhale with your expression. What does that look like in your life?Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingStart Finishing, by Charlie GilkeyMark’s WebsiteDrinking from the River of Light: The Light of Expression, by Mark NepoProductive Flourishing Episode 201: Mark Nepo: More Together Than AloneSounds True - Waking Up The WorldBig Magic, by Elizabeth GilbertSaneBox This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Today’s guest is Bobby Herrera, co-founder and CEO of the Populus Group, an army veteran, and the author of The Gift of Struggle. He joins Charlie to talk about the power of sharing your stories of struggle with your team and those around you. Listen to hear how Bobby changed his stories of struggle, and how you can convert yours from something that keeps you from being successful to the gift that it is.Key Takeaways:[0:05] - Charlie’s new book, Start Finishing: How to Go From Idea to Done will be released on September 24th, 2019. The book shares tools, practices, and mindsets that will help you finish the stuff your soul is yearning to do. There are contributions from Charlie’s friends, colleagues, and teachers.[4:20] - Bobby’s book, The Gift of Struggle, is a parable/story-style book, that seeks to understand the gift of struggle. He wrote this book to give others permission to lead the way they want to without fear or doubt of struggling along the way.[8:25] - Writing the book wasn’t something Bobby necessarily planned to do. He’s a story-teller by nature, and as he started speaking to veterans and telling stories to kids, he was encouraged to write them out in a book. It has opened up opportunities to connect with others, and guide others in a way he wasn’t in his own leadership journey.[10:10] - Being able to share the stories through live story-telling is a much different engagement than when it is written down. Bobby gets fulfillment from the way people are responding and sharing their own experiences of how they’re applying what they’ve learned in the book.[11:50] - Bobby shares the story of Dr. Joe, and how he helped navigate his first macro-level leadership position. In a feedback session with Dr. Joe, he helped Bobby identify who he needed to learn from, and what it meant to be a real student.[15:00] - In the book, Bobby also shares the story about his demotion. As a result of the demotion, he did some self-reflection on the choices he was making, who he was learning from, and how he was learning. He wasn’t taking advantage of the resources he had access to around him. This was one of the most important lessons he has learned in his leadership journey.[17:10] - Asking for help, and asking the right people for help, is incredibly important to help you move forward. In our journeys of struggle, we often ask for the easy help, rather than asking for help from the people who will help us grow. We have to take ownership of our part, and realize the control we have over our situations.[20:30] - You don’t have to have come from a certain background to be in a position of power. While that is a reality in some situations, it doesn’t have to be. The most important part of leadership is seeing and encouraging potential.[22:25] - During a Q&A with some students in Seattle, a student asked Bobby how he was able to overcome the boundaries created by color. He shares the story of how he called the student up to race, and the moment he had a breakthrough. The race to the top (of our own stories) isn’t about who is beside us, it’s about running, and running a second faster each time. The things around us aren’t holding us down as much as we think they are.[27:00] - We all struggle. Every struggle teaches us something, and that’s a gift. Leadership is sharing that gift, though it’s not a chronological journey. The book is structured so that each chapter asks questions that readers can apply to their journey, wherever they are at that time.[30:25] - The essence of leadership is that you can’t start changing other people until you change yourself.[31:335] - Telling your own stories can be very difficult. One of the hardest stories Bobby shares in the book is a story about his son. When writing the book, he wanted to use the power of story to provoke thought and reflection in the reader, so they could make connections to their own stories.[35:40] - Leadership, creativity, and doing the work that matters is messy business. “The mud” is where the work happens. It doesn’t mean you’re doing something wrong. Too often, we smother the struggle, when there is actually so much empowerment in the struggle.[38:50] - Bobby’s time in the military helped him frame some of the struggles he faced growing up in an economically disadvantaged family. It gave him a rigor and discipline that wasn’t always there. Resilience, discipline, and tenacity are all learnable traits. Anything worth being good at, is worth being bad at the beginning.[42:15] - One of the biggest mistakes Bobby made starting his company was not sharing his story at the beginning. Once he was able to share his story, it transformed his company into a community. Sharing his story humanized him. Don’t make this same mistake! Let people know the invisible force that drives you.[44:50] - There were several stories that didn’t make the final draft of his book. As with leadership, one of the most important parts of the editing process is choosing what you want to focus on. In this book, he wanted to focus on leadership.[46:35] - Bobby’s invitation for listeners is to think about who you want your story to matter to when the time comes for it to settle. Reflect on this, because at the end of the day, that’s what really matters. Every choice that you make and how you choose to lead will have a direct impact on that.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingStart Finishing, by Charlie GilkeyBobby HerreraThe Gift of Struggle: Life-Changing Lessons About Leading, by Bobby HerreraThe Populus GroupSaneBox This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

On today’s episode, Charlie talks with Andrea Owen, author of “How to Stop Feeling Like S**t: 14 Habits That Are Holding You Back from Happiness.” She joins Charlie for a more personal episode, as they tackle topics like their fitness journeys, shame stories around needing to get help, and how communities help enable growth but can also create obstacles.Key Takeaways:[3:30] - When you’re in a position where you are helping other people work on their work, it can be really difficult to focus on and allow yourself to work on your own work.[5:10] - Andrea always had a good relationship with fitness, but eventually experienced burnout from running. After her dad passed away, she stopped working out and exercising. In the process of getting back to that, she had to change her focus to working out to take care of her health, rather than for vanity reasons.[7:20] - The perceptions surrounding physicality and social pressure can make it hard to stay true to the decision you’ve made for yourself. Charlie and Andrea both talk about how they observed other people in their circles during their fitness journeys, and feeling the weight of the “should.”[10:25] - For Charlie, his struggles came from not feeling like his body was his, and that his fitness habits weren’t congruent with who he was. On top of that, he has been focusing on writing his book which put him on a different schedule with different priorities.[14:05] - One of the big influences for Charlie to get things back on track was integrity; while sharing his book, he wanted to make sure he was portraying the reality that even though there is a lot going on, you have to prioritize your health too. Andrea had a similar shift in focusing on vitality and owning her body as it is.[17:55] - You don’t want to unintentionally shame people who are happy with their body and their habits, but you can also help influence people who aren’t happy where they are and want to take steps to change.[20:10] - Another shame story comes from being someone who helps people, but having to hire someone to help you. Andrea is part of a couple of mastermind groups, and also hired someone to discuss sex with, which can be a bit of a taboo topic in our culture.[26:30] - For women, so much of their creativity is in their womb. So much of how they show up in the world is tied to that topic. The second chakra is also tied to sexuality and creativity.[29:00] - Charlie hired a personal trainer and there was some shame around that, even though he knew it’s what he needed to hold himself accountable to getting it done. What he was most worried about was that he would love it, and it wouldn’t be sustainable.[34:00] - Even though it’s hard, it’s better if we can lean in and enjoy the process. Life is hard enough; we don’t need to make it harder if we can help it. A version of getting the help that you need is an option for a lot of people. Asking for help is a pattern that shows up across many different areas of our lives.[36:05] - Being in a community is a great way to give yourself some accountability. Doing stuff with other people makes the activities better. While virtual relationships and accountability is great, having local community and asking for local help can be especially beneficial.[42:25] - Andrea’s invitation for listeners is to think about where you can show up more in your community - it doesn’t have to be the community where you live, but the circle of people you trust. Don’t be afraid to share your feelings, and ask for what you really need in those moments. Do this in romantic relationships as well.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingSaneBoxAndrea OwenBooks by Andrea Owen This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Author of eight books now, Cynthia Morris joins Charlie for a second time to talk about her new book, The Busy Woman’s Guide to Writing a World-Changing Book. She and Charlie talk about how writing a book is empowering, why busy women have different challenges with writing books that are often overlooked, plus the top three challenges people face when it’s time to start writing their book.Key Takeaways:[2:00] - Part of Cynthia’s work is coaching writers, and through this, she witnessed many of her students’ profound moments. Her hunger for helping other people experience this urged her to write this book for them. Being able to share stories helps to normalize the playing field for authors facing similar challenges.[6:00] - In her teaching, Cynthia seeks to help people craft a writing practice that is consistent and sustainable for them over time.[7:40] - Her new book is geared toward women because that is the audience she knows. The book is concise and to the point, and also considers the schedule of women who run their households, have jobs, or maybe run a business. Cynthia also hopes this will help women reclaim their power.[10:40] - Writing a book helps you reclaim power because you’re saying that you matter, your idea matters, and your book matters. You start gaining confidence as you hit your stride, and you start to own the integrity of doing what you said you would do. The works we make work us; we are made by what we make.[14:20] - Cynthia shares the top three challenges people face when writing a book. 1) People stay in the planning time for a long time before they’re ready to start. While this is an exciting stage, it’s easy to get stuck here. Dive in and go forward even if you don’t know everything. 2) Do your best to thrive in the discomfort of pulling your ideas together. 3) Make time, focus, and space to write. Maybe you need to remove something from your schedule to make that space.[18:00] - Speaking to the last point, Charlie talks about making writing a project. You may have to displace something else to give your book the time it needs. It’s not just physical space, but also emotional and mental space. You can also add in elements of project management.[21:30] - How you react when you face some of the challenges is what defines you as a person and a writer. When the challenges arise, you can choose if you want to let them get you down or power through. You might learn things about yourself you didn’t know before.[25:30] - A large part of Cynthia’s coaching focuses on who you are and how you are in the world.. Are you of a growth mindset or a fixed mindset? Sometimes we don’t want to take on projects because they will reveal things we’d rather not face. Projects can be a mirror and a bridge.[27:30] - Another challenge about writing, or art making in general, is you have to really care about the subject. You need a deep motivation, but on the other hand, the risks can become higher because it’s so important to you. Keep yourself grounded by seeking the benefits for yourself throughout the process.[30:05] - Writing itself is a slow medium; there is a lot involved in carving out what you want to say. Some people may write quicker than others, but it’s okay if it takes you time, not just to write, but also to achieve the success you want to achieve. Show up to do what you can and the rest will come.[35:55] - There’s no way to learn how to write a book without doing it. It’s humbling when people share their challenges and how they’ve overcome them through their own process.[37:45] - There is explanatory and exploratory writing. In explanatory writing, you just need to figure out how to explain what you already know. In exploratory writing, you often don’t know what you think or haven’t figured it out yet, and as you write, you work through that. Writing can reveal so much to us, and often we are the ones getting in our own way. If you want to write a book, try it! There is so much to learn from the process.[41:15] - There is always room for more writers. The first world that’s going to change when you write is your own; when your world changes, it will ripple out.[42:00] - Cynthia’s invitation is to do a free-write. Take 10 or 15 minutes to write on the prompt “I must write this book because…” and that will reveal to you what’s important to you in writing this book, or it might be a realization that it’s not as important to you and will free you up for other things.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingCynthia Morris, Original ImpulseThe Busy Woman’s Guide to Writing a World-Changing Book, by Cynthia Morris This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Sebastian Marshall joins Charlie on the podcast today to talk about productivity from a different perspective. Sebastian is the co-founder of Ultraworking, a company building technology to help people hit flow states and peak performance more often in their work. He and Charlie talk about peak performance, and how the path to peak performance often requires focus on areas outside your work.Key Takeaways:[1:45] - Sebastian and his co-founder worked together on various nonprofit and education ventures before starting their company. They were both interested in how different companies and people doing the same work performed differently, and how they could measure quality and reliable work. Today, in their business, they focus on three main things: 1) reliable effectiveness 2) frequent flow states and 3) rapid recovery.[6:25] - Having a flexible productivity system helps these three points, especially the rapid recovery. This allows you to continue with productivity, even if something happens that gets you off track. We want to be able to operate even when our context doesn’t match the system we’ve built to do reliable work.[8:40] - People don’t often think about or model statistical base rates out in the world. We don’t typically plan time for things to go wrong. Sebastian shares some research that indicates we should give 80% of our capacity each day. This gives us a reserve that we can use if something comes up and still allows us to get our work done, and also provides some built in slack that we can use if needed.[14:00] - The 80% mark requires that everyone be really good at what they do. This may not be the maximum optimization for new companies; it may be a goal to work towards.[15:30] - Sebastian recommends following up big tasks with an enjoyable project, rather than stacking big projects back to back to back. This helps you use the time you have more effectively, and often people move more quickly through their big projects with the luxury end goal on the horizon. It’s also important to plan time for transitions between projects, so you can unwind and evaluate a project before moving on to the next one. You can also use this transition time to clean, archive, and trash.[22:00] - Taking time to cleanse after a project sets you up for the next project, and also allows you to re-recruit your body and catch up to the process and project you’ve just finished. The recovery process for our minds is similar to our recovery processes for our bodies, and should be treated as such.[26:10] - A lot of the cognitive work that we do is actually done in places outside of our brain. The body is part of a greater matrix of effectiveness and energy that it takes to do our best work. We need times that we’re not at 100% to hit the highest level of output.[27:20] - There are a lot of connections between biochemistry and productivity that can explain how things happening to us outside of our work can affect us while we’re in our work. For an example, this is especially true for caffeine. Making biochemistry changes seem harder in the moment, but if you accept that it doesn’t have to be harder, it can actually make things a lot better.[32:20] - There is a distinction between the meta skill of behavior change, and the particular behavior change you want to implement. For example, when people try to clean up their diet, they often start by trying to cut out what they enjoy most. Instead, Sebastian started slowly eliminating the lowest things on his list that he used to eat. This built up the meta skill of quitting and separated it from actually quitting individual behaviors. You can gradually set up the systems and skills for quitting behaviors, and then use them to tackle the harder things.[37:05] - Everyone has an activity they like to do that’s a waste based upon their preferences and priorities. Eliminating them with the slow-quit method will help you with control and free you up to focus on other things.[40:05] - We can be hardcoreabout one thing at a time. If you want to be super hardcore, you have to be paying a lot of attention to the changes. If you’re regularly having conflict, you probably aren’t going to be able to effectively develop a habit. The same is true for our productivity systems. You can have one or two habits that you’re hardcore about, but everything else needs to be free.[43:55] - To help behavior changes, you can make the cost of not doing something higher than the cost of doing it, or the reverse. When you’re first trying something new, you have to be clear about whether the discomfort you’re feeling is the discomfort of change, or whether it’s discomfort of being out of values or principles.[46:20] - Sebastian combats this discomfort by doing some fairly intense monthly planning. He focuses on one theme or one core idea each month, and can anticipate pressure in this area. The time period of a month is usually a good indication about whether it’s something worth continuing or whether you need to tweak something to make it more effective.[51:50] - If you surround yourself with other people who are committed to getting a lot out of life, they can help hold you accountable for the goals you set for yourself. Other top performers who see you as a top performer will help you get there and stay there, or help you grow in your practices.[55:25] - If you’re looking for other people like this, you may have to get out and put yourself in situations where these people interact. Sebastian gives some tips for people who are looking to surround themselves with other top performers. You can ask for advice, and then follow up after you’ve given it a try. You will build up a reputation as someone who asks smart questions and tries out suggestions. People look out for people who are doing stuff.[1:00:25] - Sebastian’s invitation/ challenge for listeners is to go set a monthly theme for next month. Give it a name, almost like a mantra. Build some supporting policies around your theme, and run hard on it. If you do it, let Sebastian know how it went!Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingWork at 85% Capacity with 100% Focus, by Charlie GilkeyThe Goal, by Eliyahu GoldrattUltraworkingMonthly PlannerEmail Sebastian Marshall This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Paul Jarvis joins Charlie on the show today to talk about the ideas in his new book, Company of One. Some of the things they discuss are why we should question business growth, how having an upper limit in our business growth creates sanity and durability, and the relationship between intentionally keeping our businesses too small to fail, and playing it small.Key Takeaways:[2:40] - Paul’s new book is about the mindset and philosophy around business, rather than a one-person business like the title might suggest. The book came about as he was formulating his ideas about questioning growth. Several people related to his ideas, and the book was chosen as the medium as the best way to teach what he had to share.[8:11] - With the release of the book came a round of several interviews. Paul was able to use the content from these interviews to launch a podcast. Charlie and Paul talk about what makes a good interview, and how it’s especially important that all parties involved are engaged. This will make it interesting and engaging for listeners.[10:45] - A “company of one” is a company that questions growth. The thesis of Paul’s book is not necessarily that growth is bad, but that it should have some critical thought put into it before deciding whether or not to proceed with it.[11:15] - One of the big discussions in the book is upper bounds. Paul argues that there can be such a thing as too much growth. When we get caught up in trying to run our business in a way that we think it should be run, we lose sight of why we are running our business. Our choices should be driven by what will allow you to serve your target audience better.[13:45] - Aristotle thought business was the only thing that seemed to want to grow infinitely. It often works this way, but it’s not necessarily that it does. Growth is required at the start, and we assume that’s always going to be the case. Paul’s view is that companies should grow to their organic natural size and no further.[19:05] - When you want to grow your business, the important question to ask is why. Businesses should make people and the planet better, and if that’s not happening, what’s the point?[20:10] - One of the strategies Paul talks about in his book is limiting the amount of capital and investment you need to get to minimum profitability. One of the risks here is that you don’t have enough product to fulfill demand. This amount is different for every company.[24:05] - With any type of growth, you have to think about how it would serve your business, how it would serve your customers, and how it would affect your life. Every decision we make in our business has a related decision in other parts of our lives.[26:05] - Investors are seeing that there are win-wins and ways to be profitable at a middle ground. If we can learn to love sustained growth over the long-term, that really changes the game. Chasing growth has actually caused some businesses to fail because they didn’t scale to expectations.[31:35] - One of the reasons Paul wrote his book is for people who want to start a business but don’t resonate with the large-scale model. It would be a shame if they didn’t pursue their business because of that. It is important to make it work for you.[33:45] - There is a difference between the mindset of playing small and running a business that’s too small to fail. The difference is between self-doubt and building something that’s durable. If you don’t want to proceed simply out of fear or self-confidence, that is a bad reason to not proceed. But if you want to run a small business, it’s important to consider what is enough in your business and also what you want your work life to look like.[38:00] - There are no answers in the book, but there are ways to think about the problems that you’re having in your business (or the business you want to have). The book presents a wealth of questions to ask ourselves to get to the right answers for each of us individually.[40:05] - Paul’s challenge for listeners is to think about these three questions in your own life or business: 1. How much is enough? 2. How will I know when I reach it? 3. What will change if I do?Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingPaul JarvisCompany of One: Why Staying Small Is the Next Big Thing for Business, by Paul Jarvis This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Dr. Samantha Brody is a licensed naturopathic physician and acupuncturist. She joins Charlie on the show today to talk about her book Overcoming Overwhelm: Dismantling Stress From the Inside Out. In today’s episode, they talk about more expansive ways that overwhelm may be showing up, as well as some underappreciated considerations about the relationships between our values and overwhelm, compartmentalizing, and our individualized paces of change.Key Takeaways:[1:50] – “Overwhelm” is a word we use a lot, but Dr. Samantha’s definition is more comprehensive: it is the point at which what we’re experiencing is more than we can handle, and we have a response to it in one way or another. Our responses are individualized based on history, genetic disposition, and our worldview.[4:20] – The sense or experience of overwhelm is the most important thing to get under control in order to help people feel better, whether emotionally or physically. By coming at it from the perspective of what’s most important to us, we have extra room to absorb stress and do the work we need to do.[7:00] – Naturopathic medicine is all about looking at the whole organism and our lives in totality, and then identifying the root cause of our symptoms. If we try to solve our problems on the surface, they will likely pop up elsewhere in a different form.[9:58] – There is a relationship between our values and overwhelm. The first step in the process of overcoming overwhelm is figuring out what is most important to us. When we’re not clear about this, we end up making choices that align with someone else’s values rather than our own. Our values, how we want to feel, and what we want to accomplish is our True North, or what we’re trying to move toward.[13:15] – When we choose what to do and what not to do, it takes away some shame and discomfort, because we’re prioritizing right in the moment. When we misfire, we can figure out what didn’t work and why. We don’t have to shame or guilt, but continuing to work toward making choices for ourselves where we have control over the decisions can help to manage overwhelm.[17:58] – One of the big sources of overwhelm for a lot of people is that they don’t give themselves the opportunity to not be superhuman. Sometimes our priorities have to shift from our normal behavior to something that allows us to breathe. Overwhelm can come not because of what’s actually happening, but the story we’re telling ourselves about what is happening to us, and how we react to it.[21:35] – Sometimes not seeing a decision through can cause overwhelm. A lot of people get stuck after making a decision and taking action that solidifies that decision. A helpful exercise is to identify what you can change, what you can’t change, and what you’re going to choose not to change.[24:45] – At some point, overwhelm becomes overload. We are each born with a different ability to handle stress (our bucket). Our buckets fill up with different things in some general categories: environmental stress, nutritional stress, insufficiencies, financial stress, cultural stress, and health stress. In each of those categories, there are different stresses that impact us individually.[27:02] – Once our bucket is full, it overflows and we feel overwhelmed, and our weak spot is going to be exploited. We are able to decrease our overall load by identifying the things we have control over, and acting on the things that will have the most impact with the least amount of effort.[29:15] – Everyone has a different way that they make change best and how they approach change. Some people like to tackle the small things first, and others like to solve the big issues first. You have to be honest with yourself about what works best for you.[32:20] – We’re generally not very good at time scale shifts. This contributes to overwhelm because we often look at our lists of what needs to get done and collapse it to right now. We have to consider our list and relate it to a certain chunk of time that is attainable.[35:15] – Part of the holistic approach is that sometimes, to go forward in one way, you have to go 90 degrees a different way to solve the problem.[36:23] – One of the other main ideas in the book is that you can’t fail at self-care. Taking care of ourselves is a process, and no one way is right. If you’re unable to implement something, it either means it’s the wrong thing or maybe we need more support.[39:02] – Sometimes we have to approach self-care as an experiment; we try something and see what happens. If what we tried doesn’t work, it’s a learning opportunity to figure out something different. This removes the pass/fail stigma.[40:05] – If you’re already overloaded, adding something new is so much harder. We have to make the effort to identify what’s most important, and what we can remove from our bucket that’s not serving us. We have the space to really experiment and hopefully come up with a solution.[41:45] – Dr. Samantha’s challenge is to take some time to really look at what your values are. Get clear about that one thing that is going to help you make choices that will get you toward what’s most important for you in your life.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingDr. Samantha BrodyOvercoming Overwhelm, by Samantha Brody This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Seth Godin returns to the show to talk to Charlie about his new book, This is Marketing: You Can’t Be Seen Until You Learn to See. They discuss how Seth defines marketing, how changing the wording of your marketing can make a huge impact, and how to measure what’s working in your marketing. Seth also talks about what it was like to be invited to join an organization he was thrown out of a few years back.Key Takeaways:[2:20] - When Seth was first on the show, he had talked about writing a marketing book. The last marketing book that Seth published was 10 years ago. He had started a marketing seminar, and was inspired to bring it to people as a book.[4:05] - We’re in a revolutionary time where everything we know about marketing is completely new, but we’re still talking about marketing like the old way. The book is meant to be a relic that can be shared and discussed with others.[5:55] - Seth was invited back to the Direct Marketing Association after he was kicked out for testifying against spam. It was nice, but the reason Seth does his work is to inspire others with his ideas and give them something to engage with.[7:24] - Books are the foundation of our intellectual life. In an age of podcasts and online courses, books are a physical reminder of the knowledge contained inside. Seth makes the comment that his online courses seem to have a deeper impact on people than his books, but his books allow him to scale the number of people he reaches.[9:40] - Marketers make changes - if you are bringing change to a community by hoping that people will hear your story and change their behavior, you’re a marketer. It is not all about advertising; it has to do with your posture in a community as someone who does work that matters for people who care. Seth redefines marketing as work we do to change our culture.[10:55] - One simple word change can greatly impact your marketing. Instead of thinking of people as prospects, change that to “students”. Marketing then becomes about generosity, and how you can help the student get to where they want to go. This includes being open about what is best for the student - even if it’s someone else’s product - as well as invites awareness to how you can continue to evolve your product.[13:50] - When it comes to artists’ marketing, you have to really think about what you’re selling. Artists aren’t typically just selling a painting; they are selling tension, emotion and status. It is a change that comes when your painting shifts from a hobby to a business. The ideas in the book are similar for non-profits.[16:30] - Once you realize that you are a teacher and a guide, your calling can become more clear. As creatives and businessmen, it’s our job to get our work to the people who need it. You also have to be confident enough in your product that you feel comfortable charging for it.[18:50] - Emotional labor and passion are related, as are authenticity and vulnerability. However, you have to be aware of how you are channeling these things into your product. As a professional, you have to show up even when you don’t feel like it; you have to be consistent in bringing emotional labor to the table.[20:30] - Marketers need to talk less and do more. Generally marketers aren’t allowed to do, and the doers aren’t allowed to market. As marketers, we need to be in charge of customer service, the supply chain, finances, and product development - all of these things are marketing![22:24] - Digital sharecropping is a social media pattern that makes you cease to be the customer and now you are the product. The platform will try to sell you. Seth describes how he manages his social media platform to avoid digital sharecropping but still reach his audience.[26:10] - Be careful about how you’re using your media and your marketing. There is a difference between conversion media and connection media, and there is a difference between direct marketing and brand marketing. Direct marketing is measurable; you wouldn’t want to try to measure your brand marketing. There is a distinct difference.[30:30] - To build trust, you have to make promises and keep them. To build trust in your insight and wisdom is to have authority. We gain authority by describing our worldview to others and having it resonate. So for a podcast like Charlie’s, he is able to reach people with his own ideas and that’s how he influences his other product. For Seth, his podcast allows him to reach people on another axis of influence (in addition to his blog).[33:10] - For a while, there was a group of people who felt like they needed to hustle, and they asserted that that is what Seth was also doing. That’s not his aim - he would continue to write and produce his podcast even if no one read them. He wrote them to share them with people he cared about.[35:06] - For many authors, as soon as a book is finished they realize things they wished they would’ve included. For Seth, he is very happy with the result of his book.[36:40] - Seth’s hope for readers is that upon finishing the book, they will feel responsible and empowered. The easiest way to begin is to make your audience smaller; this is the biggest and most instantaneous shift presented in the book.[37:45] - Seth’s invitation for listeners: find people who do what you do. Sit down with a small group and tell each other the truth about your marketing. He presents some questions and discussion topics that you could present as a useful step forward.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingSeth GodinThis is Marketing: You Can’t Be Seen Until You Learn To See, by Seth GodinMarketing SeminarAkimbo (A Podcast from Seth Godin)Productive Flourishing Episode 3: Pick Yourself with Seth GodinTo Sell Is Human, by Daniel Pink This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe

Author, poet, and teacher Mark Nepo joins Charlie on the show today to talk about the power of true community. Throughout this episode, Mark talks about how community manifests itself in his new book, More Together than Alone. The book talks about eight worldviews and practices we can apply to our lives. He challenges us to think about how we might incorporate some of these worldview practices into our own lives.Key Takeaways:[1:50] - Mark is about to release his 20th book. Over the last ten or so years, his life of poetry and the poetry of life have blurred, and his books have become the trail of his life journey. For him, writing is about listening and taking notes - he follows his stories, his struggles, his confusions, and his questions.[5:15] - Process is about introspection and transformation. When we can bring all of who we are to a moment, we allow ourselves to be instructed. If we can stay with that moment (often one of discomfort), that’s where we are informed, enlightened, and transformed.[8:25] - Our heart is the strongest muscle we have. It is most sensitive when it’s working well.[10:35] - Moderation is about balance, and staying present in the middle of all things. We center our experience, and when it comes to our daily lives, our soul’s awakening is our career, and where that happens is our occupation. Our engagements in life bring us alive, and they bring us together.[13:50] - Mark’s new book, More Together Than Alone, is all about community. He was inspired by the community he experienced in the treatment and waiting rooms during his own cancer journey. He began researching moments in history when we have worked well together cross-culturally. He began to notice the trends over time, and talks about some specific events in history where the reaction to someone who was different had very negative consequences.[18:50] - When we encounter someone who is different from us, our actions speak louder than words. If we use the opportunities to learn something new from another person, it could help solidify and strengthen our sense of community with people we maybe didn’t realize were a part of our community.[20:18] - One key thing to remember is that we are more than what happens to us (more than our actions). Oftentimes, during negative experiences, that is how we choose to see all things. One thing that happens when we’re afraid is that we make our fear and our pain a worldview.[23:20] - In the book, Mark discusses eight worldviews and practices that we can personalize to help us recognize that we are more together than alone. The first is from the Native American tradition, and it’s the notion of all my relations - we recognize that family is what matters. In the Native American tradition, this includes everything in the universe. The practice that goes along with this worldview is to discover, name, and repair the connections that exist between all things.[25:07] - From the African tradition, he talks about Ubuntu, which means a person is a person through other people. “We are because of each other.” The practice here is to water our common roots. In nature, a good metaphor for community are aspen groves - above ground they are individual trees, but underground they share one root system.[26:52] - The third worldview comes from the Hindu tradition, “Thou art that.” This implies that at the heart of things, we are the same. The practice is to feel a life of compassion that honors how we are the same.[28:07] - The next worldview comes from the Jewish tradition, and it is the “I, Thou” relationship - everything is a living center unto itself. When we honor that in others, and bring our lives to it, then the unrehearsed dialogue of God appears. Our practice is here is learning how to stay committed to honest conversation.[29:35] - The fifth worldview comes from the Lebanese tradition,”Ya ah uni,” which means “oh, my eyes. Now we can see together.” The idea is that we need each other to see, and welcome other beliefs other than our own. The practice encourages us to be open to other people’s thoughts and ideas about the world.[30:40] - The next worldview comes from the desert mystic fathers from the early Christian tradition: the wagon wheel. There are three parts to a wagon wheel - the hub, the spokes, and the rim. This worldview suggests that all souls on Earth are a spoke on that wheel, and as we live our lives, no two spokes occupy the same space on the rim. Our unique gifts and talents hold up the community (rim). As we go deeper into ourselves, towards the hub, we all meet in the middle. The Christian tradition says the hub is God. The practice here is to learn how we live out our uniqueness and commonness in the world.[32:21] - The second to last worldview is the Danish tradition of Hygge, which translates to comfort. The practice is hospitality, and welcoming strangers as well as friends.[32:42] - The final tradition comes from African bushmen, and is the tradition of greeting. When someone from the tribe returns from hunting and gathering, someone from the village calls out “I see you,” and the person returning says “I am here.” The practice with this worldview is to bear witness to each other, and affirm each other.[33:45] - The important aspect of all of these worldviews is figuring out how we can personalize them for ourselves, and fit into the world with others. Mark discusses a parable of two monks, and the open-ended choice at the end of the parable speaks to what kind of world we’re living. If we insist on keeping our appointment (whatever it is) over opening our heart and working with what we’re given, we’re leaning toward cruelty.[38:13] - Working for what we want is an apprenticeship for working with what we’re given. In that action, that’s where our greatness reveals itself. We are often able to give more than we think we can give. This applies not only to others, but also to ourselves.[40:05] - In his thirty or so years of writing, one thing became clear across all stories and traditions. When difficulty, pain and fear make us think that self-interest will protect us, love and suffering affirm that we’re more together than alone. Another thing that was affirmed is that the people who have given the most throughout history are the people who have the least.[44:05] - We gain wisdom from our direct experience, but if that’s all we rely on, we’re in trouble. We have to allow ourselves to also receive and learn from the experiences of others. Those two together is at the heart of community.[46:55] – At the end of the book, there is a picture of a blind boy. It was taken by a WW2 photographer, and it was a small boy from Italy who was not only blind but also had lost both of his arms. The picture is of the boy learning to read Braille with his lips. On the surface, it’s a very sad image, but when you stay with it longer, it is at the heart of resilience. No matter what’s taken away, we’ll read with our lips, and continue to learn.[49:05] – We can all identify as all of the people in the photograph, including the photographer that made it come alive. We are all of these things, and wisdom supports us on this journey through life and community. As we go through life, we are working to make sure there is one more healthy soul in the world than unhealthy, so we can speak to the health of humanity.[52:00] – Mark’s invitation and challenge for listeners is to affirm our humanity and our oneness every day. Find one way each day to do that, whatever it might be. Be aware of who is around you, and help them so we can move forward together.Mentioned in This Episode:Productive FlourishingMark NepoMore Together Than Alone, by Mark NepoThings That Join the Sea and the Sky, by Mark NepoThe Book of Awakening, by Mark Nepo This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.productiveflourishing.com/subscribe