The Human Cloud Podcast

Leaders, The Future of Work is at a pivotal moment. We can’t say we’re the reality of work (just yet). Why? If you look at corporate budgets, we account for less than 1% of the total spend on talent, and less than 5% of total external talent spend.  But whether it’s Fortune 500 CEOs or major governments, those taking notice and acting will make flexible talent the norm rather than the fringe. Bettina Schaller is one of these leaders who can make flexible work a global reality for billions of people worldwide. In this episode, we explore the policy and infrastructure changes required to make it happen.  Bettina shares insights on the importance of adapting to evolving work models and emphasizes the need for frameworks that balance flexibility with worker security. She discusses the challenges and benefits of freelance work, highlights the role of leaders in embracing diverse forms of work, and addresses the ethical considerations of AI in the workforce, advocating for responsible implementation.  Key takeaways: The Future of Work requires adaptable frameworks that balance flexibility and security for workers. Freelance work offers opportunities for flexibility and innovation, but it also requires safeguards against exploitation. Leaders should embrace diverse forms of work and consider the value and impact of freelance talent. Ethical AI is an exciting area of focus, with the need to ensure responsible implementation and protect workers' rights.

Leaders, are you fishing in the same pond as everyone else? We all know there are plenty of freelancers in the US, Europe, and increasingly LATAM. But what about Africa, Serbia, Georgia, and other emerging, hard-to-reach regions?  Today’s guest, Alex Norovyatkin and Mellow have been experts in this since 2012.  We’re all familiar with major players like Deel, Remote, and other global payroll, classification, and employer of record solutions. But while they have broad coverage, these don’t specialize in hard-to-reach regions as Mellow does — and this specialization makes all the difference. For instance, Mellow operates as a Contractor of Record (COR), not an Employer of Record (EOR) or Agent of Record (AOR), and this distinction is tailored to hard-to-reach regions. They also offer contractor specific solutions that ensure clients have access to the best talent.   In this episode, we’ll also discuss the power of leverage. Leverage allows companies to achieve more with fewer resources. Just as the computational cloud enabled Instagram to scale to a billion-dollar valuation with only 13 employees, the Human Cloud enables companies to operate effectively with just five core team members: a CEO, CMO or Chief Sales Officer (CSO), Chief Product Officer (CPO), and an operations and HR lead. The rest can be freelancers, and solutions like Mellow make this possible. Key takeaways: Unlocking global talent requires understanding diverse markets Mellow's journey showcases the evolution of the contingent workforce Contractor of record simplifies the hiring process Navigating legalities is crucial when hiring internationally The demand for unique talent from emerging markets is growing HR leaders face increased responsibilities in the remote work era Companies must adapt to macroeconomic changes impacting talent acquisition Building relationships with contractors is essential for success The future of work may involve a blend of internal and external talent

Leaders,  In this episode, we reconnect with Kris Saling, Acting Director of the Innovation Directorate at U.S. Army Recruiting Command, who we first met on a Department of Defense-hosted panel at SXSW. Kris is a remarkable force in talent innovation, formerly serving as Chief Analytics Officer in the Army Talent Management Task Force. She’s leading efforts to modernize and reshape how the U.S. Army recruits and retains talent, using freelance platforms and data-driven approaches to address gaps in recruitment and workforce development. In our discussion, Kris highlights the parallels between large corporations and the Department of Defense in handling talent needs, particularly around trust, transparency, and adapting to rapid changes. We explore how the U.S. Army missed its recruitment target by 15,000 soldiers last year and why the biggest workforce challenge lies not at the top or bottom but in the middle ranks, where motivation and promotion remain obstacles. The U.S. Army is now exploring the use of freelance platform models to bring in specialized talent and efficiently distribute human capital resources. By implementing a flexible freelance model, the Army and DoD hope to achieve greater agility, cost savings, and access to the specialized skills critical to maintaining strategic advantage in an evolving landscape. Key Takeaways: The U.S. Army faces a major recruitment gap, with targets missed by 15,000 Soldiers in 2023.  Trust and transparency are key to attracting talent, as recruits desire greater control and visibility in their career pathways. Freelance platforms like GigEagle are being explored by the U.S. Army, enabling the Department of Defense to engage talent for short-term, specialized projects, a shift that could redefine recruitment. There is a shortage of senior personnel in the US Army due to a lack of junior positions, highlighting the need for talent management and development. Implementing a freelance model in the US Army and DOD can provide cost savings and access to specialized skills. Identity management and trust issues are obstacles to adopting a freelance workforce.

Leaders,  Úna Herlihy and Peter McPartlin, founders of the Indie List, discuss the evolving freelance economy and how they’re reshaping how brands connect with top marketing talent. They share their journey in launching The Indie List and their mission to support freelancers while offering clients a curated network of high-quality talent. Emphasizing the importance of client relationships and a white-glove experience, they discuss both the challenges and opportunities in today’s freelance landscape, from the talent shortage to the rise of fractional roles. The Indie List is committed to help freelancers earn, learn, and connect while providing clients with the expertise they need. Key takeaways: The importance of a curated list of high-quality freelancers in the marketing and communications industry. Why platforms are more than just marketplaces, but rather strong relationships with clients and a white-glove service. The freelance economy offers opportunities for both freelancers and clients, but it requires a shift in mindset and approach. The talent shortage is a challenge in the industry, and the Indie List aims to provide a solution by connecting clients with top-notch freelancers.

Leaders,  In this episode, Tim Condon, Chief Revenue Officer at Clutch, highlights the evolution and impact of Clutch as a global marketplace for professional services firms. Tim highlights the challenges and opportunities faced by service providers and the changing landscape of the freelance economy. He also touches on the role of AI in providing insights and matching service providers with the right projects. Key takeaways: Clutch's role as a global marketplace for professional services firms The impact of the freelance economy on service providers and buyers The challenges and opportunities faced by service providers in the evolving landscape The role of AI in providing insights and matching service providers with the right projects

Leaders, MBO Partners just released their 2024 State of Independence, a 14-year running report that’s been the backbone for most statistics and strategies related to the Future of Work. This year’s report doesn’t disappoint, and in this episode, MBO Partners CEO Miles Everson will illuminate his favorite parts of the report. Miles dives into three key areas:  First, he lays out the global talent shortage through data, specifically showing how the decline in birth rates across all developing nations, the leaving of baby boomers, and the decline in company tenure have led to a world where there’s no such thing as a permanent workforce. He digs into the exact birth rates.  Second, he shows that it’s not a talent shortage, but rather a talent shift in how top talent wants to work. He shows this through specific data points. (1) Consistent growth in full-time independents since 2020 from 13.6 million in 2020 to 27.7 million in 2024. (2) A 4-year 6.8% compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of independent workers compared to the 1.35% CAGR for all employment. (3) A 10-year 8.3% CAGR of solopreneur business applications. (4) Independents are happier (84% say they are happier), healthier (79% say it’s better for their health), and wealthier (65% say they feel more secure working independently). Third, he offers a playbook for executives on how to tap into the independent workforce, what he calls the new social contract. He also explains the competitive edge independents bring, especially in technology adoption, noting that 65% of independents are using Gen AI in their work in 2024, compared to 37% in 2023. Tune in to hear Miles’ vision for the future of work and the need for a new social contract, just under 100 days before the release of his book Free Birds Revolution: The Future of Work and The Independent Mind. Key stats: Full-time independents doubled from 2020 to 2024 from 13.6 million in 2020 to 27.7 million in 2024 84% say they are happier working independently 79% say it’s better for their health to work for themself 65% say they feel more secure working independently 65% of independents are using Gen AI in their work in 2024 compared to 37% in 2023 The CAGR for full-time independents is 5.45% higher than all employment (excluding farm employment) - 6.8% 4 year CAGR for independent workers, and 1.35% CAGR for all employment.

Leaders, How well do you know the contingent talent landscape? Enough to run a program? Enough to build a platform? I’m willing to bet that no matter how well you know the space, you’re going to love hearing how Angela breaks down the evolution of contingent talent leaders—from supportive roles to strategic powerhouses—and how the industry has shifted from legacy VMSs and MSPs (or rogue spend) to tech-first Employer of Record (EOR) and Vendor of Record (VOR) solutions.  Angela Alberty, Co-Founder & CXO of myBasePay, a leading EOR provider, previously served as Vice President of Business Development - North America Recruiting Support Division at People 2.0.   She highlights a compelling reality that most talent leaders have yet to grasp fully. In her words, “There’s a talent revolution but you can’t see it because it looks like white space”. This white space represents the unmanaged contingent talent spend occurring outside formal channels.   The issue brings two levels of consequences. Level one is operational. Companies can’t embrace their scale advantage, they can’t bring the various teams and leaders together, and they spin their wheels on optimizing existing talent strategies rather than embracing new technologies. Level two is diminishing brand equity. Along with providing a poor talent performance, companies like Nike are exposed to major misclassification risk.  The solution is to be strategic rather than supportive with your contingent talent strategy, and Angela will give us a master class in this.  She also teaches us about Latin American talent and offers insights on how every region can access this promising market.  Key takeaways: How myBasePay achieved significant growth during the pandemic. EOR 101: What is it, and how EOR solutions provide risk mitigation and compliance oversight. Staffing agencies need to evolve to remain relevant, and myBasePay is a platform that helps staffing agencies meet market demand. Cultural affinity plays a crucial role in nearshoring success. Instead of just outsourcing, it’s vital to have a partner who is deeply embedded in these regions. myBasePay proves that loyalty among Latin American workers leads to better retention and productivity.

Leaders, Today we’re joined by Bryan Hancock, Partner at McKinsey & Company, author of Power To The Middle, and podcast host of McKinsey Talks Talent.   Our industry faces a unique challenge — our biggest blocker is change management, not technology or operational excellence. While these aspects are important, the most significant barrier to freelance adoption is the organizational change required to start the freelance journey. Bryan will teach us how middle management can become the driving force for change. This episode isn’t specifically about freelancing; it’s about the evolving role of middle managers, how they have transformed, and how they can be catalysts for change within their organizations. For us, this means that freelancing is one of the tools middle managers can use to drive changes that align with their teams' objectives, organizational priorities, and strategic goals. Key takeaways: Based on McKinsey data, the percentage of talent that says they freelance has risen from 27% in 2016 to 36% today. Middle managers can be the changemakers in the Future of Work. Middle managers traditionally have been the bureaucrats.  There are 4 characteristics of a good middle manager. They (1) drive clarity, (2) empower and challenge their team, (3) drive connections within and across teams, and (4) understand the whole person within their team members.  Evaluating effective middle managers depends on the specific responsibilities and context of their role. Everyone is feeling the pain of the talent shortage, needing to be operationally excellent, and being disrupted.

Leaders, Barbara Dondiego, CEO of AVOXI, highlights the company's commitment to a remote-first strategy and its advantages for global operations. She emphasizes that this approach enables AVOXI to recruit top talent worldwide, fostering a highly motivated and engaged workforce. AVOXI specializes in providing cloud-based voice solutions to large enterprises, particularly in the contact center industry. Leveraging AI, the company enhances productivity and efficiency with tools like agent assist and AI offload. This remote-first model has been instrumental in delivering exceptional customer service and driving innovation for over 5,000 clients. Barbara discusses the benefits and challenges of remote work and shares insights on creating a remote work framework, maintaining employee engagement, and the power dynamics in a digital-first organization. She also highlights the efficiency and global reach of remote work and emphasizes the importance of cultural fluency and the competitive advantage of being able to work with customers in different time zones and regions. Barbara points to AVOXI's success, citing steady revenue growth, strong client satisfaction, and the creation of a positive, supportive work culture. Key Takeaways: AVOXI's remote-first approach allows them to attract the best talent from around the world, resulting in a highly motivated and engaged workforce. AI is used in the contact center industry to improve productivity and efficiency, with applications such as agent assist and AI offload. Consistency is achieved through automation and clear communication, including weekly all-hands calls. AVOXI's remote-first model has proven successful in delivering exceptional customer service and driving innovation. Create a remote work framework that outlines expectations and communication methods. Maintain employee engagement through regular check-ins, stand-up meetings, and one-on-one sessions. Remote work offers efficiency and the ability to extend the business day by working with teams in different time zones. Cultural fluency is crucial in remote work to effectively communicate and collaborate with customers and colleagues from different cultures. Remote work can provide a competitive advantage by offering global reach and the ability to work with customers in different regions. AVOXI has experienced strong revenue growth, client satisfaction, and a positive work culture.

Leaders, How are you navigating legislation? Are you turning a blind eye, hoping the tax collector will skip over you? Or are you burying your head in sand until the day you’ve hired enough freelancers to be noticed? Well bad news, the freelance economy is in the midst of a legislative reckoning, and if you’re on the wrong side of it, your business or platform could be in serious trouble.   According to Human Cloud data, less than 10% of leaders think their government is supportive. Legislation isn’t a simple issue. On the surface, freelance seems only beneficial. It creates more jobs. Individuals have more flexibility, more choice, and according to all relevant data, individuals overwhelmingly choose to freelance and are more confident and secure than their full-time peers. Yet, for some reason, it’s not that simple — governments are still not supportive. Why not? The short answer: taxes. The long answer: freelancing disrupts the employment framework that has been in place for the past 75 years. Seemingly overnight, tax collection becomes exponentially more difficult, since rather than a handful of companies paying unemployment, healthcare, and the related taxes, instead it’s the individuals who are responsible for paying these taxes. And let’s face it…some don’t, and it’s much harder to chase thousands of individuals rather than a couple large companies. Freelance also undermines the traditional notion of a “good job.” No healthcare? No benefits? No paid time off? In the seat of government we look like an exploitative model for companies to avoid taxes and benefits. While this doesn’t capture the full picture, it underscores the uncertainty and hesitation governments continue to have towards freelancing and self-employment in the foreseeable future. Which is why today’s guest is Glen Hodgson, European policy expert and Founder and CEO of Free Trade Europa. Glen will dive into the mindset of governments and legislators, examine current and proposed legislation, and explore regional differences across Europe. He’ll also offer valuable insights into the state of the freelance economy in Europe. Key takeaways:  Government legislation and policy in Europe often lags behind the changing nature of work and the demands of freelancers. Freelancers around the world want similar things, flexibility, choice, and recognition for their work, and are pushing back against traditional employment models. Europe isn’t one monolithic region with the same laws and customers. There are significant differences in freelance adoption and legislation across European countries, with some countries being more supportive of freelancers than others. The current and proposed legislation in Europe can have significant implications for freelancers, platforms, and enterprise leaders, and may require workarounds and adaptations. Leaders in the freelance economy should actively participate in shaping legislation, advocating for the needs and interests of freelancers, and promoting the benefits of freelancing. Effective leadership in the freelance economy requires new skills and approaches, including a matrix-style organization and a focus on relationships and collaboration. Listeners are encouraged to sign the petition to protect freelancing in Europe and engage with the Freelance Movement for more information and opportunities to get involved.