The Human Cloud Podcast

Leaders,  Today we talk with Asal Naraghi, ADP's Global Innovation Leader, focusing on the Future of Work, alongside Maarten Hansson, Founding Partner of Workforce Insights, and former Global Head of Integrated Workforce Management at Novartis.  Both are industry leaders in driving talent transformation. While Asal was Philips Global Head of Strategic Capabilities, she famously orchestrated delivering half a million ventilators.   Equipped with data from ADP, the world's leading payroll platform (8% of all American paychecks flow through ADP), and two global talent leaders, we'll learn what every leader needs to be thinking about right now.  Four themes keep emerging across the conversation. Urgency: Talent leadership is challenged today more than it has ever been. Alongside a systemic talent shortage across every developed nation, talent is demanding and choosing to work in ways traditional talent structures aren't set up for. This directly leads to the businesses' inability to compete, catalyzed by an inability to react to uncertain and unexpected macroeconomic and societal events. Companies that embrace modern talent strategies in this episode can access the skillsets needed at the time and cost required to ship on time. Those that don't will continue focusing on layoffs and re-org's while their competitors eat their market share. New Normal: Talent is at an inflection point, no less greater than technology's inflection from floppy disks and massive mainframes to cloud computing, the internet, laptops, then mobile computing. The talent equivalent is from full time and physical employment to flexible and autonomous. Flexible means multiple different employment forms, full time, part time, freelance, fractional, etc. Autonomous meaning is chosen by the individual, whether choosing to work in person, remotely, at what hours, etc. How do talent leaders incorporate this magnitude of a shift?     Courageous Leadership: Change is required but hard. Talent leadership isn't historically incented for this level of change, and the change needed can look crazy for most. Would you tell your CHRO you recommend prioritizing external freelance talent over internal employees? Probably not…but you'd be no different than technology leaders telling their CEOs they should stick with on-prem solutions rather than adapting to the cloud. While on-prem seemed like the safe and stable option, within 5 years leaders that didn't adapt would be out of a job. Sound familiar to talent leaders saying the default should no longer be full time? Right now 20% of leaders have the courage to take charge leading modern talent solutions within their organization according to Asal and Maarten.  Partnership and Collaboration: Business leadership and talent leadership need to work side by side. This level of transformation is extremely hard, but both stakeholders now have the shared goals of growth, profitability, and innovation. In this episode, we'll discuss how both stakeholders can talk and collaborate.   As you all know, change isn't easy, but Asal and Maarten introduced a process to make talent change management more predictable.  Step 1: Start from urgency by quantifying the cost, risk, and access to talent benefits. Step 2: Find your stakeholders. Stakeholder map HR, Procurement, and related business teams. Step 3: Generate top down support. Throughout these steps, apply first principles thinking and Five Times Why analysis to address the most urgent problems. Choosing the wrong problems to solve can leave little room for success. Are you ready to make 2025 your best year yet? If so, this is the episode for you. If not, the new Squid Games just came out. 

Leaders,What if you could fundamentally redevelop the agency experience? Better yet, what if you could radically redevelop how marketing teams plan, build, and scale their impact?I introduce Gather, an independent creative partner that builds better marketing teams by using an independent network, double opt-in incentives, and a team-as-a-service model. In this episode, we meet David Gaspar, a Partner and Head of Innovation at Gather. Before that, David was part of the innovation team at GE and a CFO and investor in multiple ventures.In this episode, we explore what helped shape Gather’s success. David came from Corporate Innovation teams, so he knew what worked and what was lacking across the Fortune 500 landscape. He discusses that the core of every good innovation leader was a small, trusted network they would always lean into. Gather set out to solve the problem of scaling this trusted network to all innovation and business leaders.In their 15+ year journey, Gather has championed many best practices. One of these is a double-opt-in matching process, where both the client and the independent opt in to the engagement. This results in much higher motivation, productivity, and results. Another best practice of Gather is serving the thinking and doing within teams. Rather than just nice presentations and recommendations or just execution, Gather independents provide both the thinking and doing.The last topic we’ll discuss is the secrets of change for every internal change maker. David made a great point: Anyone doing something new within a large organization can have a target on their back. That is 100% true. However, they can navigate this, and David recommended two things immediately: first, make more significant asks, and second, ask for help.  Key takeaways:Being the “day one” phone call has been a critical component of Gather’s successGather uses a TaaS (team as a service) modelGather uses a high-touch client relationshipIndependents on Gather are fiercely independentIndependents don’t have the caution or bureaucratic thinking on who and how to talk to people across the company

Leaders, In this episode, Rishad explores the evolving dynamics of work and organizations, offering thoughtful insights on what success and joy in work truly mean. He shares his perspective on the rise of Asia—particularly China, India, and Southeast Asia—as key players shaping the future of technology and innovation. Rishad highlights five transformative forces reshaping companies: generational shifts, technological advancements, the rise of gig work and marketplaces, and the lasting effects of COVID-19. He predicts a move toward fractionalized workforce models and emphasizes the need for leaders to adapt to this new reality. The discussion examines the reinvention of the office, the emergence of new leadership styles, and the integration of humans and AI in the workplace. Rishad also explores the balance between large and small companies, the critical role of continuous learning, and why businesses should embrace a "company of one" mindset. The episode wraps up with practical advice for executives on thriving in this rapidly changing world of work. Key takeaways: Success is defined by the freedom to spend time in ways that bring joy. Asia, particularly China, India, and Southeast Asia, are at the forefront of technological growth and innovation. The five forces that will transform companies are generational shifts, technology, gig work, marketplaces, and the long-term impact of COVID-19. Companies will adopt a fractionalized workforce model, where employees work part-time and have flexibility in their schedules. Leaders will need to adapt to the changing dynamics of work and embrace new ways of managing and leading teams. The office will be completely reimagined, with a focus on in-person interaction rather than physical presence. New types of leaders will emerge to navigate the changing landscape of work. Humans and AI will work together in a coexistent manner, with AI augmenting human capabilities. The future of work will be characterized by the existence of large companies and small companies, with little in between. Learning, curiosity, creativity, collaboration, convincing, and communication skills will be crucial for success in the future of work. Executives should allocate time for learning, reimagine their companies, focus on creating and guiding rather than monitoring and measuring, think like a company of one, and embrace the opportunities of the future of work.

Welcome back leaders! In this special episode, Matthew Mottola and Tony Buffum prepare us for the new year. Before you listen grab a sticky note, and write down these key points:   Optionality - Every company needs the optionality to make quick adjustments without being burdened by their traditional talent process.  Uncertainty - The only certainty is uncertainty, and good leaders know that market share and rocketship growth are best conquered in times of uncertainty. Partnership - Business leaders must partner with talent leaders, and enterprises must partner with their talent platforms to design, build, and scale their future workforce.  These are the three rules you need to live by in 2025:  Navigate optionality, uncertainty, and partnership. In this episode, you’ll learn why.  Specifically, we’ll talk about: The state of HR now and how it evolved from a union voice to the tightest relationship with talent How HR leaders can be in the top 20% and receive gifts every year from their CEO Where HR’s gone wrong and become a bottleneck, gatekeeper, and hall monitor How HR will regain their seat at the planning table by being the trusted talent partner and strategist for their CEO The State of Talent today, and how the wave has crashed, and it’s now a default talent access world rather than talent acquisition The start of predictions for 2025 Enjoy and have a phenomenal new year!!!

Leaders, Today we’re joined by Ray Culver, a staffing industry veteran and Certified Contingent Workforce Professional with 30 years of experience in sales, sales strategy, and sales leadership.  This episode dives into the dynamic world of contingent talent, unpacking terms like contingent, external, MSP, freelance gig, and elastic, while breaking down the roles of staffing firms, MSPs, and VMSs, explaining how they all fit within the broader category of external talent. Ray also explores the risks and challenges that come with managing contingent talent, including classification issues and liability concerns. Get ready to gain insights into the business models of staffing firms, including how markups and fees work. The discussion shifts to the rapid changes in the industry, including the rise of freelance marketplaces and the challenges staffing firms and clients face in adapting to new ways of working. Ray emphasizes the importance of meeting talent where they are, rethinking how buyers and staffing firms approach freelance work and the ongoing need for reeducation for this space. He also shares his own experiences with freelancing and the unique challenges of explaining this evolving way of working to others. Key takeaways: Contingent talent encompasses various terms and concepts, including contingent, external, MSP, freelance gig, and elastic. Staffing firms play a crucial role in connecting employers with talent, typically through temporary placements. MSPs (Managed Service Providers) and VMSs (Vendor Management Systems) are integral to managing contingent talent programs. Managing contingent talent involves navigating classification risk and liability. The business models of staffing firms often involve markups and fees. The industry is evolving, with the emergence of freelance marketplaces and the integration of different talent channels.  The freelance economy is evolving and talent is choosing to work in new ways, which requires staffing firms and clients to adapt and meet talent where they are.

Part 2 of Malt’s Freelance Forward Executive Summit, hosted in Berlin, Germany, highlights the current state of freelancing in the country and the challenges and opportunities within the market.  Experts from various sectors discuss the value of freelancers, the changing dynamics of client-freelancer relationships, and the importance of embracing flexible business models. The discussion also sheds light on freelancers' obstacles and showcases success stories from companies that have effectively integrated freelancers into their workforce.  Malt is Europe’s leading flexible talent platform. Founded in 2013, Malt has helped over 800,000 freelancers and 70,000 clients across 9 countries. Human Cloud had the privilege to open and lead the panel for Malt’s Freelance Forward Summit in Berlin and Munich. There were over 150 executives and consultants, and on each panel, there was a Malt Executive, Freelancer, and Client embracing a flexible talent strategy.  This episode highlights the Berlin panel, where we’ll learn from Belén Alomar Brutau, Malt’s Chief Product Officer, Andreas Dölecke, CEO of Kerkhoff Consulting GmbH, and Daniel Zinner, Freelance HR & Global Mobility Consultant.  Key takeaways: Companies are increasingly integrating freelancers into their teams for long-term projects. Freelancing can significantly reduce the time it takes to hire specialized talent. The onboarding process for freelancers should be intentional and inclusive. Over 40% of freelancers in Germany have been freelancing for more than seven years. Freelancers spend an average of five hours a week upskilling themselves. Mittelstand companies in Germany are increasingly recognizing the value of freelancers. Freelancers need to adapt to a team-oriented culture rather than working in isolation. Successful companies are using freelancers as part of their global talent strategy. Freelancers should focus on personal branding and niche expertise to stand out.

Leaders,  We are navigating one of the most challenging global economies in recent history, where talent is increasingly difficult to find, afford, and retain.     In every developed nation, talent shortages persist. Across companies, budgets have tightened, deadlines have grown shorter, and many leaders are stretched thin. Yet an innovative set of leaders and companies have found a solution to match their talent and productivity needs. From Schneider Electric to Microsoft to Airbus, household brands have turned to the power of flexible talent and freelance talent platforms to move their business forward. Malt is Europe’s leading flexible talent platform. Founded in 2013, Malt has helped over 800,000 freelancers and 70,000 clients across 9 countries. In October, Human Cloud had the privilege to open and lead the panel for Malt’s Freelance Forward Summit in Berlin and Munich. There were over 150 executives and consultants, and on each panel, there was a Malt Executive, Freelancer, and Client embracing a flexible talent strategy.  This episode highlights the Munich panel, where we’ll learn from Vincent Huguet, Malt’s CEO, Martina Reiss, Freelance HR Consultant, and Marion Latreche, Senior Indirect Procurement Officer. Key takeaways: Freelancing is becoming a significant part of the workforce in Europe. The demand for freelancers is growing, especially in Germany. Flexibility is a key reason many choose freelancing. Compliance and security are top concerns for companies hiring freelancers. Freelancers are increasingly seen as integral to company culture. Onboarding processes for freelancers need to be efficient and supportive. Companies must develop a clear freelance strategy to succeed. The freelance economy is resilient even in economic downturns. Talent platforms play a crucial role in connecting freelancers with companies. The Future of Work will likely involve a hybrid model of freelancers and full-time employees.

Leaders, The Future of Work is at a pivotal moment. We can’t say we’re the reality of work (just yet). Why? If you look at corporate budgets, we account for less than 1% of the total spend on talent, and less than 5% of total external talent spend.  But whether it’s Fortune 500 CEOs or major governments, those taking notice and acting will make flexible talent the norm rather than the fringe. Bettina Schaller is one of these leaders who can make flexible work a global reality for billions of people worldwide. In this episode, we explore the policy and infrastructure changes required to make it happen.  Bettina shares insights on the importance of adapting to evolving work models and emphasizes the need for frameworks that balance flexibility with worker security. She discusses the challenges and benefits of freelance work, highlights the role of leaders in embracing diverse forms of work, and addresses the ethical considerations of AI in the workforce, advocating for responsible implementation.  Key takeaways: The Future of Work requires adaptable frameworks that balance flexibility and security for workers. Freelance work offers opportunities for flexibility and innovation, but it also requires safeguards against exploitation. Leaders should embrace diverse forms of work and consider the value and impact of freelance talent. Ethical AI is an exciting area of focus, with the need to ensure responsible implementation and protect workers' rights.

Leaders, are you fishing in the same pond as everyone else? We all know there are plenty of freelancers in the US, Europe, and increasingly LATAM. But what about Africa, Serbia, Georgia, and other emerging, hard-to-reach regions?  Today’s guest, Alex Norovyatkin and Mellow have been experts in this since 2012.  We’re all familiar with major players like Deel, Remote, and other global payroll, classification, and employer of record solutions. But while they have broad coverage, these don’t specialize in hard-to-reach regions as Mellow does — and this specialization makes all the difference. For instance, Mellow operates as a Contractor of Record (COR), not an Employer of Record (EOR) or Agent of Record (AOR), and this distinction is tailored to hard-to-reach regions. They also offer contractor specific solutions that ensure clients have access to the best talent.   In this episode, we’ll also discuss the power of leverage. Leverage allows companies to achieve more with fewer resources. Just as the computational cloud enabled Instagram to scale to a billion-dollar valuation with only 13 employees, the Human Cloud enables companies to operate effectively with just five core team members: a CEO, CMO or Chief Sales Officer (CSO), Chief Product Officer (CPO), and an operations and HR lead. The rest can be freelancers, and solutions like Mellow make this possible. Key takeaways: Unlocking global talent requires understanding diverse markets Mellow's journey showcases the evolution of the contingent workforce Contractor of record simplifies the hiring process Navigating legalities is crucial when hiring internationally The demand for unique talent from emerging markets is growing HR leaders face increased responsibilities in the remote work era Companies must adapt to macroeconomic changes impacting talent acquisition Building relationships with contractors is essential for success The future of work may involve a blend of internal and external talent

Leaders,  In this episode, we reconnect with Kris Saling, Acting Director of the Innovation Directorate at U.S. Army Recruiting Command, who we first met on a Department of Defense-hosted panel at SXSW. Kris is a remarkable force in talent innovation, formerly serving as Chief Analytics Officer in the Army Talent Management Task Force. She’s leading efforts to modernize and reshape how the U.S. Army recruits and retains talent, using freelance platforms and data-driven approaches to address gaps in recruitment and workforce development. In our discussion, Kris highlights the parallels between large corporations and the Department of Defense in handling talent needs, particularly around trust, transparency, and adapting to rapid changes. We explore how the U.S. Army missed its recruitment target by 15,000 soldiers last year and why the biggest workforce challenge lies not at the top or bottom but in the middle ranks, where motivation and promotion remain obstacles. The U.S. Army is now exploring the use of freelance platform models to bring in specialized talent and efficiently distribute human capital resources. By implementing a flexible freelance model, the Army and DoD hope to achieve greater agility, cost savings, and access to the specialized skills critical to maintaining strategic advantage in an evolving landscape. Key Takeaways: The U.S. Army faces a major recruitment gap, with targets missed by 15,000 Soldiers in 2023.  Trust and transparency are key to attracting talent, as recruits desire greater control and visibility in their career pathways. Freelance platforms like GigEagle are being explored by the U.S. Army, enabling the Department of Defense to engage talent for short-term, specialized projects, a shift that could redefine recruitment. There is a shortage of senior personnel in the US Army due to a lack of junior positions, highlighting the need for talent management and development. Implementing a freelance model in the US Army and DOD can provide cost savings and access to specialized skills. Identity management and trust issues are obstacles to adopting a freelance workforce.