The Human Cloud Podcast

Leaders, Many companies invest in AI expecting quick wins, only to end up with expensive tools that deliver little impact.Don’t let that happen to you.In this episode, Kenneth Lo, Co-Founder of ZenBiz Services, shares practical strategies to help you apply AI effectively and avoid these common mistakes.With experience in AI, data, and digital marketing, plus a background as a Big Four consultant, startup advisor, and angel investor, Kenneth offers expert insights that cut through the noise.You’ll learn:Why agentic AI  will shape the next phase of automation.Why human oversight is still essential to ensure trust, accuracy, and ethical AI applications.How companies can start small with AI projects to drive real impact and avoid common pitfalls.Why freelancers are leading the charge in adopting AI and how that impacts workforce strategies.The importance of compliance and data security in AI adoption, especially for regulated industries.What businesses need to consider when building AI teams or leveraging external expertise.Kenneth also shares his thoughts on the future of AI in business and why trust, relationships, and human connection will always remain essential, no matter how advanced the technology gets.If you’re looking for practical AI strategies to stay competitive while minimizing risks, this episode is packed with insights you can apply immediately.

Leaders,Freelancing is no longer just a trend—it's becoming a cornerstone of how businesses build teams and drive innovation. But with rapid shifts in technology, AI, and global talent strategies, what does the future of freelancing really look like?In this episode, Nuri Demirci Lopez shares his insights on how freelancing is evolving, the role of AI in shaping talent strategies, and why a mindset shift is crucial for organizations embracing hybrid workforces.A bit about Nuri - he’s a leading expert in how enterprises adopt freelance workforces. He’s also on the cutting edge of how AI can expand from freelance workforces to digital twins. Key highlights:Insights from ProcureCon on how enterprises are approaching freelance strategies.Why AI is transforming talent sourcing and enabling flexible workforce models.The need for better platform standards and global regulations.How organizations can securely integrate freelancers into their operations.The mindset shifts leaders must embrace to stay competitive.For anyone navigating flexible talent models or looking to leverage AI for smarter workforce strategies, this episode is essential.

Leaders, We have three questions for you: What really is the future of work? How will AI impact the future of work? What’s the value of a platform? In this episode, we talk with Brett Martin, a 20+ year serial entrepreneur and venture capitalist. Brett has seen it all. His fund, Charge Ventures, has been around for over 9 years, invested in over 90 companies, and funded several unicorns. Brett has also been a leader in combining SaaS applications in the future of work, being in both the founder and investor seats. In this episode we’ll learn: Brett views company building as “riding the wave” rather than creating one. Brett’s perspective on the future of work, the types of companies that are needed, and which ones will successfully ride the wave.How entrepreneurs can leverage Generative AI and today’s technology to build the best talent-related companies.A quote from Brett that resonates throughout the episode is: “Great companies ride waves; they don’t create them.” Write this down and keep it close, it's a powerful reminder as you think about your business.In the theme of waves, Brett outlines the current factors shaping the future of work:We’re transitioning from thinking that the goal is “remote” to embracing a distributed, global workforce.  Moving from offshoring as a cost-savings function to treating it as a strategic sourcing channel.The best solutions today are augmenting humans, not replacing them. For example, his startup Fonzi replaces 60% of recruiters' tasks, allowing them to focus more on building relationships.Augmenting humans enables teams to do more with less—in some cases, what once required 20 BDRs can now be accomplished by one digital worker.The challenge of confronting broken systems built on legacy technology. The open question: should we build on top of these systems or start fresh with entirely new solutions?

Leaders, do we need to say more than Steve Rader? If you don’t know Steve, he has been a relentless leader who has pushed for future workforce models across organizations like NASA and beyond. In this episode, we’ll explore how Steve envisions future workforce models applied within large organizations and discuss what current workforce models need to do to adapt to the rapidly evolving technology landscape. In true NASA form, we’ll take an engineering approach to the future of work. As any good engineer does, we’ll start by identifying the first principle and then engineering the solution.What is the first principle of work and the “talent” industry? We need to take it deeper…what is the first business principle? As Steve puts it, it’s okay to admit that the first principle of business is to “make money.” From this first principle, we can identify how the full-time default is in the way of this. Full-time employment, compared to modern models, is slow, inefficient, fixed, and suboptimal for most conditions. A peak into key themes we’ll discuss: The traditional recruitment model is broken. Full stop. From this first principle, we can use white paper thinking to create the recruitment model that works in today’s digital era. Middle management needs to evolve from delegation to orchestration. The reality is that for every 100 traditional middle managers, companies only have 10 now, and these 10 need to navigate modern technology and talent tools to match the production of what once took 100 managers. If enterprises don’t embrace modern workforce models, it’s just a matter of time before startups disrupt them. We covered this in Forbes, How Startups And Small Businesses Signal The Future Of Work.The Platform Community can replace most of what traditional talent leaders have done. Yes, we’re saying HR and Contingent Talent Programs could be replaced by the current talent platform ecosystem. Last, and most important, Steve breaks down what we call “The Holy Trinity To Modern Talent Disruption”. The Holy Trinity guides leaders who need to disrupt traditional talent processes.What the trinity says is this: Leaders must start with the business case. The business case is crucial, as it’s the first principle you always refer back to, benchmark from, and measure against. Then progress to digital leadership. We can also call this digital ownership. This means that leaders go from the business case to the digital and technology-related solutions. This brings in Product, Innovation, Engineering, and technical leaders. Then, leaders progress to talent leadership or talent ownership. This can be HR, TA, or Contingent Talent leaders. All three need each other. How can you apply your Holy Trinity? Listen to find out!

Leaders, The contingent workforce space is evolving, and at the center of this transformation is the need for community, strategy, and problem-solving. In this episode, Dustin Talley shares his journey from intrapreneur at MBO Partners to launching Direct Collective, a peer-based community designed for contingent workforce leaders navigating the complexities of extended workforce programs.Dustin discusses the importance of building relationships, creating value-driven communities, and understanding the challenges companies face when managing flexible talent at scale. He also breaks down key trends shaping workforce strategy, from data-driven decision-making to the growing role of independent workers.Topics covered include: The transition from intrapreneur to entrepreneur in workforce management Why traditional contingent workforce programs focus too much on control instead of innovation The rise of independent workers and how companies are adapting their talent strategies How community-driven solutions help leaders solve real problems rather than just managing spend The evolving role of data, KPIs, and workforce visibility in shaping program successFor leaders working in contingent workforce strategy, procurement, or HR, this conversation provides key insights into building smarter, more agile talent programs.

Leaders, Eight years ago, Jennifer Zick set out to create a new marketing standard. She noticed that marketing was becoming ever more chaotic through growth in new tools, channels, and models. She also saw the rise of marketing executives who could make phenomenal fractional leaders, and noticed fractional leadership already existed for finance and back office management, but not for marketing. So she combined the two; marketing expertise and a fractional model, to offer what is now Authentic, a marketing consultancy that helps growing businesses “Overcome Random Acts of Marketing®.”This episode follows two key paths.  The science of marketing The science of building a differentiated talent platformBoth are crucial for every leader building their team, org, and company. We all know growthis essential, but profitable growth, and actually understanding where your growth comes from, is increasingly difficult. If we gave you $100 dollars today, would you know where to invest that to create $110 dollars tomorrow? If you do, and Google’s SEO change disrupted your search traffic, would you know how to adapt? This brings up the first “aha!” for every leader - According to Jennifer, the purpose of marketing is to consistently answer four key questions:  Who do we want to matter to? Why do we matter to them? Where are they?  How do we get them to trust us? The second “aha!” will be how she built her company through a W-2 talent pool of fractional marketing executives. Two years into building Authentic, she made the difficult decision to transition from a network of 1099 independent contractors to W-2 employees, a move that came with an immediate profit margin hit. So why did she do it? She mentioned three main reasons:  For a higher valuation, as 1099’s aren’t typically included in the valuation To be able to control the client experience, since there is a tough balance of what you can tell independent contractors to do To build a stronger company culture For leaders, marketing is a space to watch as flexible talent models continue to disrupt traditional structures. There are several great platforms paving the way, including Growth Collective (acquired by Toptal), We Are Rosie (Private Equity investment), and Wripple.Key takeaways: Jennifer bootstrapped her way to scale her business.  Jennifer scaled her startup growth by balancing client delivery (50% of her time) and creating content that built a sustainable growth engine (50% of her time). Marketing has seen an explosion of tools, channels, and strategies. The result is that full-time marketing teams can’t keep up with the rise in tools, instead, they stick to what they know, exposing companies to missing out on the new tools or being disrupted if their competitors understand them.  The solution to the rise of this marketing chaos is having fractional marketing expertise - backed by a community of highly qualified specialists - to orchestrate your flexible network of marketing expertise.

A recent panel discussion brought together leading AI experts to explore the latest advancements and their impact on businesses and the workforce. The conversation covered everything from cutting-edge AI models to real-world applications transforming industries. This discussion highlights key insights on how AI shapes the flexible workforce.This is the public version of the webinar. To access the private version, log into your Knowledge Hub or subscribe at https://humancloud.work/knowledge-hub/About The Panelists:Matt Coatney - AI and Digital Product Leader and co-author of theHuman Cloud book. Matt brings 25+ years leading $15–75M business divisions, co-founding four companies, advising numerous startups, and developing and launching over a dozen innovative products. He also built some of the early Deep Learning and Machine Learning courses today's AI founders use.Noah Gale, Co-Founder of Tribe AI, the leading AI talent platform. Fresh off a $3.25 million seed round to match demand, Tribe and Noah are at the forefront of what's possible and viable.Cory Hymel, VP of Research and Innovation at Crowdbotics. From AI research on self-driving vehicles in the early 2000s to founding multiple startups, Cory's at the forefront of Human Computer Interaction with a focus on AI augmentation in software development.Nuri Demirci Lopez, Principal PM at Microsoft. Nuri brings 20+ years of blending technology, customer experience, and digital talent models within enterprise and startup environments. Alongside 2 books, sought after keynote talks, and advising, Nuri leads a best in class customer experience solution that leverages AI, Enterprise grade technology, and truly global flexible workforces.Ready to transform your business? Learn more about how Human Cloud can help connect you with the expertise and solutions you need. Visit Human Cloud today.

Leaders, The word “freelance” often brings to mind creatives, writers, and remote laptop workers. But what about hands-on, in-person jobs.. the backbone of the global workforce?What about assembly line workers, restaurant staff, electricians, plumbers, and countless others whose work happens beyond a computer screen?Five years ago Flexible work solutions for these roles were nearly nonexistent. While platforms like Upwork and Fiverr were IPO’ing, and hundreds of specialized platforms like Catalant, Paro, Uncompany, Ollo, and many others were emerging, outside of Uber and Lyft, the front line workforce was relatively left behind.That’s no longer the case. Today, businesses like retail, restaurants, event spaces, hotels, and many more have flexible workforce solutions.Driven by talent platforms like Hyer, flexible work is finally transforming the front line workforce. It makes sense, the front line workforce amplifies existing talent challenges.High churn - the front line has the highest rate of dropping out from workforce participation, along with the highest rate of churn, attrition, and the lowest rate of retention.High cost - the management of front line workers is increasingly expensive, with large percentages of businesses saying they can’t operate under the existing labor cost structure. Slow hiring processes.The technology and mechanisms of talent platforms theoretically should solve for most of these challenges.Deeper than the tech, is the impact this has on businesses. Rather than burning out their workforce, or paying excess for overtime or inefficient workers, businesses can meet the scalability and fluctuation common across front line workforces. Businesses typically plan 80 to 90% of their workforce then adapt to fluctuation. This inefficiency, leading to a lack of help, typically falls on the front line manager who has to pick up the slack. Rather than front line managers picking up the work themselves, talent platforms like Hyer enable them to scale up support in under 48 hours. Businesses also can meet demand from unplanned events, which can be the catalyst that drives them to at times 10x’ing their revenues. Dave will bring up an example of a business that had a spike from TikTok, and because they could meet demand, they 10x’ed their business and became a beloved household brand.  As we all know, adapting to a flexible workforce is hard. But thanks to Dave’s prior experience as a tenured VP at PepsiCo, he deeply understood how to adapt Hyer’s customer experience with how businesses needed to engage their front line workforce. Dave highlighted how change is top-down, starting with VPs in Operations blessing the platform, and then front line managers adopting and embracing the platform. We promise that within 5 minutes of this episode, you’ll understand why talent platforms are essential for the front line workforce. By the end of the episode, you’ll be ready to email your VP of Operations or better yet, start leveraging a talent platform for your team.Need guidance? Explore our Industry Landscape to find the perfect platform for your needs.The Promise of Platforms and The Front Line WorkforceThe Business Case: Growth, Expansion, Meeting The MomentThe Secret To Change: Operations and Front Line ManagersWhat Should You Do ASAP? 

Leaders,  Jeff is a trailblazing entrepreneur who’s been there and done that in the external talent space. Prior to his latest venture transforming workforce compliance, Jeff started in IT staffing, founded an industry leading VMS - flextrack, and built an EOR company, Contingent Workforce Solutions, which he merged with People 2.0 to become one of the pioneers of the EOR industry.   In this episode we’ll hit on five important things.  Definitions - what is this space? Who are the players? What’s really needed?  Positioning - what kinds of founders and businesses have been, and look to be successful in this space? Market Trends - where is the external talent industry going? What is in the way? The Impact of the Trump Administration Enterprise Adoption - what is blocking every F500 from spending $100m+ on digital talent platforms, also called freelance platforms, on-demand platforms, gig platforms, and more One of the biggest takeaways for us, was when Jeff said, “The talent industry runs on trust”.  Why? Because for leaders, whether founders or executives, decision-makers in this industry uniquely need to trust that you’ll get the job done and be there long term.  The impact is that rather than trying to disrupt the industry, successful leaders typically learn how to complement existing players, and navigate win-win partnerships rather than expecting immediate revenue capture.  This mistake is one of the most consistent patterns we see in outside entrepreneurs trying to break into the industry. They take tech and try to disrupt the existing ecosystem, only to learn that most companies won’t dramatically change their talent strategy and vendor solutions even with 10x differences across speed, cost, and quality.  Another big takeaway was how we defined the various aspects.  First, he calls us the external talent industry. Next, he defined the various aspects.  External Talent: Everything not internal full-time employees, often categorized as “spend”, or external talent depending on the owner MSP: Outsourced HR for external talent VMS: Technology that stores and centralizes relevant external talent data Program: Centralizing the management of external talent spend Staffing: Provides the talent Second, he highlights the importance of taking a program approach. Without a program approach, companies were losing hundreds of millions of dollars. Last, he highlights the importance of knowing who owns the external talent program, and aligning with that function rather than trying to make them change.  Jeff made a really nuanced, but integral point – most of the external talent industry is owned by private equity. The impact is that these companies, and most of the industry, have focused on revenue optimization. Obviously, this leaves gaps of opportunity for innovative solutions. For you, this means that there is a significant opportunity to see the broader picture, and solve accordingly. Rather than incrementally solving for a process that’s already been over-optimized, where can AI and new processes to fundamentally transform external talent? But caution, while you redefine what the external talent space can be, remember his first piece of advice, build trust and operate through partnership rather than trying to disrupt everyone.  Key takeaways: The new administration supports innovation, independent contracting, and workers rights Trust is essential in the flexible talent industry. The shift towards remote work has created new challenges for enterprises. Efficiency in talent acquisition is crucial for businesses today. The gig economy is ripe for growth and innovation. Understanding compliance is vital for hiring independent contractors. The language of business is becoming more explicit and focused on efficiency. Relationships matter in the talent acquisition space. The flexible talent market is still evolving and needs clarity. Taking a step back to understand the broader market is important for success.

Leaders,  Today we talk with Asal Naraghi, ADP's Global Innovation Leader, focusing on the Future of Work, alongside Maarten Hansson, Founding Partner of Workforce Insights, and former Global Head of Integrated Workforce Management at Novartis.  Both are industry leaders in driving talent transformation. While Asal was Philips Global Head of Strategic Capabilities, she famously orchestrated delivering half a million ventilators.   Equipped with data from ADP, the world's leading payroll platform (8% of all American paychecks flow through ADP), and two global talent leaders, we'll learn what every leader needs to be thinking about right now.  Four themes keep emerging across the conversation. Urgency: Talent leadership is challenged today more than it has ever been. Alongside a systemic talent shortage across every developed nation, talent is demanding and choosing to work in ways traditional talent structures aren't set up for. This directly leads to the businesses' inability to compete, catalyzed by an inability to react to uncertain and unexpected macroeconomic and societal events. Companies that embrace modern talent strategies in this episode can access the skillsets needed at the time and cost required to ship on time. Those that don't will continue focusing on layoffs and re-org's while their competitors eat their market share. New Normal: Talent is at an inflection point, no less greater than technology's inflection from floppy disks and massive mainframes to cloud computing, the internet, laptops, then mobile computing. The talent equivalent is from full time and physical employment to flexible and autonomous. Flexible means multiple different employment forms, full time, part time, freelance, fractional, etc. Autonomous meaning is chosen by the individual, whether choosing to work in person, remotely, at what hours, etc. How do talent leaders incorporate this magnitude of a shift?     Courageous Leadership: Change is required but hard. Talent leadership isn't historically incented for this level of change, and the change needed can look crazy for most. Would you tell your CHRO you recommend prioritizing external freelance talent over internal employees? Probably not…but you'd be no different than technology leaders telling their CEOs they should stick with on-prem solutions rather than adapting to the cloud. While on-prem seemed like the safe and stable option, within 5 years leaders that didn't adapt would be out of a job. Sound familiar to talent leaders saying the default should no longer be full time? Right now 20% of leaders have the courage to take charge leading modern talent solutions within their organization according to Asal and Maarten.  Partnership and Collaboration: Business leadership and talent leadership need to work side by side. This level of transformation is extremely hard, but both stakeholders now have the shared goals of growth, profitability, and innovation. In this episode, we'll discuss how both stakeholders can talk and collaborate.   As you all know, change isn't easy, but Asal and Maarten introduced a process to make talent change management more predictable.  Step 1: Start from urgency by quantifying the cost, risk, and access to talent benefits. Step 2: Find your stakeholders. Stakeholder map HR, Procurement, and related business teams. Step 3: Generate top down support. Throughout these steps, apply first principles thinking and Five Times Why analysis to address the most urgent problems. Choosing the wrong problems to solve can leave little room for success. Are you ready to make 2025 your best year yet? If so, this is the episode for you. If not, the new Squid Games just came out.