ProductLed Podcast

Alison Taylor and Trevor Johnston are the co-founders and co-CEOs of Jane, an online platform for health and wellness practitioners that makes it simple to book, chart, schedule, bill, and get paid. They join Ramli on the show to talk about product-market fit and how customer service is at the heart of a product-led business. They then go through the steps they have taken (and still take) to overcome growing pains. Show Notes [01:17] How the Jane app came to be and scaled with just one “customer support” team [05:34] The signup process is a way to get customers committed and to get them on the product journey [08:00] Why Alison and Trevor decided not to go with the freemium model  [09:48] About Jane’s high-touch onboarding experience [12:26] Prioritize loyal customers over sales [15:23] The evolution of Jane’s signup process [19:30] About Jane’s org structure and support system [23:48] The challenge of hiring and helping people develop their careers [28:05] How marketing and engineering fit in Jane’s org structure [30:05] Alison and Trevor’s advice for product-led startups About Alison Taylor and Trevor Johnston Alison Taylor has been in the healthcare space as a business manager since 2008, and she believes in the integration of work into life and life into work. She hired Trevor’s creative agency to brand her clinic, Canopy Integrated Health, which she opened in 2011. Trevor Johnston loves doing creative things with technology to create enjoyable experiences and to solve people’s problems. He co-founded Thought Shop Creative Inc. and was its lead digital guy until 2016. Jane is his first app and his first foray into coding. Profile Jane Alison Taylor’s LinkedIn Trevor Johnston’s LinkedIn

Emily Lonetto is the Head of Growth at Voiceflow, a platform that allows anyone to build voice apps without coding. In this episode, she shares insight on user onboarding, offering practical tips to create a memorable onboarding experience, weighing in on some of the common mistakes companies make when it comes to user onboarding. She also talks about Voiceflow’s early days, along with ways to improve the customer’s journey. Show Notes [01:35] About Emily’s sticker store [02:48] Her experiences with user onboarding [06:15] Emily’s process for customer activation [08:54] What people can expect from Voiceflow [11:23] What Emily did and realized during Voiceflow’s early days [14:52] Match the level of the user with the level of expertise/technicality that a tool has [18:30] How product-led growth should scale with every user [21:28] Examples of apps that have different ways for users to “level up”  [27:06] Design for function over looks and keep things simple [29:44] Emily’s tips to improve user onboarding About Emily Lonetto Emily is the Head of Growth at Voiceflow – a platform that helps designers, developers, and their teams design, prototype and launch voice & conversational experiences. Before Voiceflow, Emily was the second growth hire at Clio, introducing product growth experimentation to the org. Before joining Clio, Emily led product growth at PartnerStack (formerly GrowSumo) YC'15, and helped automate/scale Tilt (acquired by Airbnb) YC'12 massive ambassador and community program across the globe. In her spare time, Emily is a speaker, advisor and cofounder/co-organizer of GrowthTO and currently helps startups tackle early growth strategy with several incubators and advisory councils across North America and Tel Aviv. Links  Squarespace Webflow Duolingo Jonathan Chang – Artist for AAPI Twitter for Jonathan Chang Profile  Voiceflow Emily on Twitter Emily on LinkedIn Voiceflow Community on Facebook

Andres Glusman is the CEO of DoWhatWorks and used to lead growth at Meetup. In this episode, he joins Andrew on the show to talk about his journey into the growth space. He presents the power of experimentation and optimization, sharing lessons that he learned from his mentors and his own failures. He also offers tips for people who are in management or leadership positions and are looking to be successful. Show Notes [01:15] An overview of DoWhatWorks [02:05] How Andres came up with DoWhatWorks [05:50] How he built his growth skillset [14:00] Identify key risks, go after it as quickly as possible, and validate your assumptions [16:58] What Andres did for Meetup [20:10] An overview of Meetup’s growth journey [25:15] On winning, gaining momentum, and transitioning to a leadership role [33:00] What Andres has learned from some of his mistakes [37:20] His advice for people who are building their growth skillset About Andres Glusman Andres Glusman has a background in behavioral science and economics, and he is very interested in growth and experimentation. Before founding DoWhatWorks and becoming its CEO, he spent 14 years working for Meetup. Andres is also a board member at Devpost, a dad, and a casual surfer. Links Meetup YouTube MySpace Facebook Profile DoWhatWorks Andres’ Email Address

Claudiu Murariu is the co-founder and CEO of InnerTrends, and in this episode, he talks about activation and PLG metrics. He highlights the advantages of working backwards and highlights a big mistake that teams make when it comes to “getting people to the promised land.” He also offers advice and tips for entrepreneurs looking to improve their activation and onboarding process. Show Notes [01:10] Claudiu’s definition of user activation [03:05] Marketing a product is like making a promise [07:10] About InnerTrends’ tool-agnostic approach and tracking strategy [09:45] What to expect if you include a product guide in the onboarding process [13:50] The relationship between activation and onboarding [17:48] The purpose of the onboarding process is to let people experience things themselves [20:40] Longer onboarding times lead to better retention [22:28] How InnerTrends calculates the average time it takes for new users to go through the onboarding process [24:45] How to improve your activation or onboarding experience About Claudiu Murariu Claudiu Murariu is the co-founder and CEO of InnerTrends, a software service that makes data work for companies that are looking to transform growth into more revenue. Before InnerTrends, he spent 3 years as a freelancer, and he worked as a web analyst for PadiCode (which he also co-founded) and Avangate. Because he is passionate about data analytics and obsessed with data-driven businesses, Claudiu has been a keynote speaker for product events and conferences around the world. He is also the host of The Data-led Professional Podcast. Links Actionable Metrics Canvas Wizard Product-led Growth Community Profile  Claudiu Murariu on Twitter InnerTrends

April Dunford is the author of “Obviously Awesome”, and in this episode, she talks about positioning—what it is and why it’s important. She dives into some of the analogies she used in her book to explain how positioning works. She also brings up Clay Christensen's milkshake story to break down the 5 components of positioning. She then answers some of the viewers’ questions, offering practical advice for startups. Show Notes [03:22] Some misconceptions about positioning, why positioning is important in business, and how it differs from traditional branding [09:22] Why positioning is like the opening scene of a movie [16:25] Some signs of weak positioning: total confusion, wrong comparisons, prospective clients don’t think your value is valuable or they think your vision is just a fantasy [20:25] Define what makes your product special and then figure out what is the best context to frame those qualities in [25:35] The 5 components of positioning: competitive alternatives, unique capabilities, differentiated value, target market segments, and market category [27:58] On Clayton Christensen’s “Jobs to Be Done” theory [36:05] How to convince buy-in companies that positioning is important [43:18] How to define positioning if you do not have best customer fit yet [45:08] How positioning influences product development [50:05] How to position your product or company if you want to cater to different countries About April Dunford April Dunford studied engineering in university and then spent the first 25 years of her career as a marketing executive for startups. She has worked as a consultant for more than 100 companies, helping them fine-tune their sales and marketing teams. Aside from being an expert on product positioning, April is also a mentor, an adviser, and a keynote speaker. She lives in Toronto, Canada with her kids and a small dog. Links Salesforce Competing Against Luck by Clayton Christensen Profile April Dunford's website April Dunford's Twitter

Zach Sims is the CEO of Codecademy, an online learning platform that teaches people how to code, along with additional skills they might need to upgrade their careers. In this episode, he walks us through the strategies he and his team used to grow Codecademy to what it is today. He also weighs in on monetization, community-driven growth, and internationalization. Show Notes [01:26] Codecademy’s mission and how it got started [04:49] How Codecademy has evolved since its first version was launched [10:38] On building a brand around the freemium model  [18:08] When is the best time to monetize? [19:55] On brand, community, and content [23:53] The metrics that Codecademy uses to measure end-user success [25:50] On fostering community and why they invest in their learners [31:27] On the future of education About Zach Sims Prior to launching Codecademy in 2011, Zach Sims was a student at Columbia University. He has worked in product and business development/strategy capacities at startups. He also has experience in the venture capital industry with AOL Ventures. Codecademy has worked with organizations like The White House, the Government of Colombia, American Express, Rakuten, and more. TIME Magazine included Codecademy in its "50 Best Websites of 2012” list, and TechCrunch awarded it the "Best Education Startup" Crunchie Award in 2013. Profile Links Codecademy Zach Sims on Twitter

Momo Ong is the co-founder of HeadsUp—a plug-to-play, end-to-end solution for sales teams to understand and engage their customers. In this episode, Momo shares the insane amount of research they completed before HeadsUp was built, weighing in on the challenges that go-to-market teams face in product-led growth. He also talks about the importance of product usage data and identifies specific metrics that should be created for marketing and sales success. Show Notes [01:32] What prompted Momo and his colleague, Earl Lee, to create HeadsUp [03:42] On the increased need for collaboration within go-to-market teams [05:55] On the increased need for collaboration between go-to-market teams and product engineering functions [06:55] Why product usage data is important [12:28] How go-to-market professionals increase collaboration within their organization [15:15] On rolling out product usage data beyond product teams [17:25] Extract, transform, and load product usage data into a cloud data warehouse and then create actionable metrics [20:45] When product-led companies hire go-to-market individuals About Momo Ong Momo is a graduate of Princeton University who used to work on video ads at Facebook. He also held product leadership roles at Beam and FiscalNote (where he met his HeadsUp teammates Earl Lee, Justin Hegyi, and Dev Shah). He really enjoys playing games and thinking about leadership and management. Links FiscalNote Salesforce Marketo Product-led Growth Slack Profile HeadsUp

Sean Hurley is the founder and CEO of Pathright, a company that helps marketing teams and startups supercharge their growth. In another episode of the How I Got Here series, Sean talks about the challenges of taking “the next step,” what it’s like to work in marketing and growth, and the subtle differences between the two industries. He also offers advice on hiring and how to harness the power of social media platforms. Show Notes [00:42] About Sean and Pathright [04:50] How going up the career ladder inversely affected his happiness and motivation [07:58] On working with Properly VP of Marketing Jess van Rooyen [10:50] Why he wrote “Head of Growth Playbook” [12:30] The growth engine is built by humans—not channels or money [14:38] What Sean learned from Jobber growth product manager Connor Bradley [17:05] Four or five channels are enough to scale your startup [19:42] What kind of content Sean shares on LinkedIn [22:32] On the nuances of marketing and growth [29:32] What skills people in the growth space should have About Sean Hurley Sean Hurley has been in marketing and the growth space for nearly 15 years. He’s had a couple experiences on the B2B front but mainly focused on B2C products. He quit his full-time job last October 2020 and launched Pathright in February 2021. Sean is intrinsically driven by the need to understand people and to create enough value that will inspire them into action. He started Pathright to help convert people on different channels and to drive growth. Links  Properly Jobber Profile  Pathright Head of Growth Playbook Sean on LinkedIn

Hiten Shah is the founder of several popular software startups—Crazy Egg, KISSmetrics, and most recently, Nira. In this episode, Hiten talks about FYI and its transition to Nira, weighing in on the importance of access control in the hierarchy of collaboration needs. He also talks about pricing and the emotional aspect of pivoting. Be sure to tune in until the end where Hiten shares great advice for SaaS founders. Show Notes [01:05] On the creation of FYI and what inspired Hiten and his team to shift focus [06:35] The problem Nira addresses [12:22] The 3 types of pivots: problem pivot, customer pivot, and product pivot [14:08] The differences between a pivot and a “hop” [17:32] When is it time to pivot? [24:08] About Hiten’s team, their approach to product building, and how they reacted to the change in direction [28:18] On doing product-pricing research  [31:00] How to counter the pains of attachment [35:05] Lean into your fears About Hiten Shah Hiten Shah is the co-founder and CEO of Nira, a real-time access control system that provides visibility and management over who has access to company documents in Google Workspace. He is a founder at heart, having started multiple well-known companies. He has also helped thousands of other people with their startups. Links Box Confluence Airtable Slack Profit Well Profile Hiten Shah on Twitter Nira

Louis Grenier is the founder and host of Everyone Hates Marketers, a popular contrarian marketing podcast that has reached over a million downloads without ads in less than 4 years.  In this episode, Louis weighs in on the importance of radical differentiation in marketing while also explaining the steps you need to take to stand out from the competition, including things like finding a niche and being hyper-focused in your minimum viable market. Show Notes [01:01] About radical differentiation and marketing bullshit [06:14] Challenge your self-limiting beliefs, obsess over your minimum viable market, engineer the differentiation, and then make people pay attention to you in a non-sleazy way. [09:30] How to overcome your self-limiting beliefs [15:02] April Dunford’s method for niching down [19:02] The benefits of being hyper-focused on your minimum viable market [20:42] Louis’ tips for finding your minimum viable market [22:33] Look through different lenses to engineer your uniqueness [26:07] How Louis built his podcast [35:00] It’s hard to change people’s minds. Go after those who believe in what you believe. [39:55] How to communicate your uniqueness  About Louis Grenier Louis Grenier is the founder and host of the Everyone Hates Marketers podcast. Speaking from 10 years of experience in the industry, he believes that radical differentiation is the antidote to marketing bullshit. He also has an 8-week high-intensity program to help people and organizations stand out without being sleazy. Resources ZAG by Marty Neumeier The Practice by Seth Godin Obviously Awesome by April Dunford Eating the Big Fish by Adam Morgan Profile Everyone Hates Marketers Louis Grenier on LinkedIn