Curious Minds at Work

A hundred years ago, if you asked someone about burnout, they wouldn't know what you were talking about. Fast forward to today and there's a good chance they'd say they've experienced it. Burnout's a term psychologist Herbert Freudenberger popularized in the 1970s. He used it to describe the experience of doctors and nurses exposed to long periods of stress and overwork. Over the past 20 years, use of the term has expanded to include people in other industries and roles. And today, during the pandemic, it's become an everyday reference. But just because we know what burnout is, or what it feels like, doesn't mean we know what to do about it. And the advice we often get to "work less" or "have more fun" seems a little too simple. Too binary. That's where the Nagoski sisters come in. My guest, Amelia, and her sibling, Emily, are co-authors of the book, Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle. It's a book filled with remarkable insights. One of the central ones is this: while we often associate stress with burnout, we're unclear on the relationship between them. Amelia and Emily explain that most stress isn't the problem. Instead, it's the stress cycle that kicks in when we don't work through the emotions that accompany our stress. That's the problem. And it's what leads to burnout. Fortunately, in this interview, Amelia not only walks us through the stress cycle, she also explains what we can do to break it. Equally important, she discusses how to avoid it in the first place. Amelia Nagoski holds a doctorate in musical arts and is an Assistant Professor at Western New England University. Her co-author and sister, Emily Nagoski, holds a doctorate in health behavior and is an award-winning author of the bestselling book, Come as You Are. Episode Links The World: A Brief Introduction by Richard Haas Down Girl by Kate Manne Cognitive Reappraisal and Acceptance: Effects on Emotion, Physiology, and Perceived Cognitive Costs Loneliness and Social Isolation as Risk Factors for Mortality Requiem by Andrew Lloyd Webber The Team Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here. How to Support Us If you'd like to support the show, please rate and review us on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show. Ways to Subscribe Click here and scroll down to see a sample of sites where you can subscribe.

Most of us are hungry for feedback. Whether it's from bosses, teachers, family, or friends, we know it's the key to getting better. And the research supports this: frequent, effective feedback improves our motivation and our performance. Yet, when we become managers, we often forget this lesson, which means most of the people we manage don't get enough feedback. And it's not because we don't think it helps. It's often because we're afraid. We worry about hurting people's feelings, demotivating them, or creating conflict. That's why I wanted to read Therese Huston's latest book, Let's Talk: Make Effective Feedback Your Superpower. What I like about her approach is how she humanizes feedback. She asks us to think about our goals. Why are we sharing this feedback, with this particular person, at this time? Then she asks us to think about what's in it for them to receive our feedback. The result is a genuine conversation. It starts with us sharing why we care about their growth and development. It continues with us sharing the challenge or gap as we see it. Then it means listening to understand their point of view, so that we can work together on a solution. Approaching feedback this way can break down barriers. It can also help us overcome our hesitation. Ultimately, it can lead to stronger relationships and higher quality work.  Therese was the founding director of the Center for Faculty Development at Seattle University. She's written for The New York Times and Harvard Business Review. I spoke to Therese on the podcast about her previous book, How Women Decide. Episode Links Avraham N. Kluger Why Do So Many Managers Avoid Giving Praise by Jack Zenger and Joseph Folkman Nine Lies about Work by Marcus Buckingham and Ashley Goodall The Ideal Praise-to-Criticism Ratio by Jack Zenger and Joseph Folkman The Progress Principle by Teresa Amabile and Steven Kramer The 1, 2, 3 Newsletter 6 Things Employees Want to Hear from Their Bosses The Little Things that Make Employees Feel Appreciated by Kerry Roberts Gibson, Kate O'Leary, and Joseph R. Weintraub Research: Men Get More Actionable Feedback Than Women by Elena Doldor, Madeleine Wyatt, and Jo Silvester Why Most Performance Evaluations are Biased and How to Fix Them by Lori Nishiura Mackenzie, JoAnne Wehner, Shelley J. Correll Shelley Correll Katherine Hilton and Stanford Researcher Examines How People Perceive Interruptions in Conversation  Michael Bungay Stanier Crucial Conversations Our Team Learn more about host, Gayle Allen, and producer, Rob Mancabelli, here. How to Support Us If you'd like to support the show, please rate and review us on iTunes or wherever you subscribe, and tell a friend or family member about the show. Ways to Subscribe Click here and scroll down to see a sample of sites where you can subscribe.

I'll admit it. I'm a sucker for brain science. I love learning new things about how our brains work and how to get the most out of this amazing organ. That means I'm always scanning for my next book on the topic. And, when I find it, I'm usually placing an order before I've made it through the table of contents. With this week's guest, I barely glanced at her book's title before I clicked "buy." That's because the author is the incredible neuroscientist, Lisa Feldman Barrett. Last time she was on the show, we talked about her mind-blowing book, How Emotions are Made. I learned how her research has led to a complete rethinking of, well, how emotions are made. In this conversation, we talk about her newest book, Seven and a Half Lessons about the Brain. At first glance, you might think, what does this have to do with my work? The short answer is . . . everything. What you'll learn about your brain will change how you structure your day and, on an even bigger scale, how you interact with other people. This is a book to savor. It's enlightening. Insightful. And it's downright enjoyable. In fact, you may want to read it in bite-size chunks, like one chapter at a time, because it's a book you may not want to finish too quickly. It's just too good. Lisa Feldman Barrett is an award-winning Professor of Neuroscience at Northeastern University. She has appointments at Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital. I'm thrilled to have her back on the show. One quick ask before the interview - if you enjoy the podcast, I'd be grateful if you'd take a moment to rate and review the show on iTunes or wherever you subscribe. The team works hard to produce the podcast - and to keep it commercial free -- and it means a lot for us to know that you enjoy it. Speaking of brain science - a positive rating or review gives us the dopamine hits we need to keep on going. Episode Links Lisa Feldman Barrett's Extended Notes for Seven and a Half Lessons about the Brain The Accidental Species by Henry Gee The Rationality of Decisions Depends on Behavioural Context Tuning and Pruning Cultural Inheritance Reverse inference problem The Remembered Presence by Gerald Edelman Himba people Hadza people Why We Want to Squeeze Cute, Little Things Wired to Wonder by Todd Kashdan Gray Malin Curious Minds at Work Team Learn more about creator and host, Gayle Allen, and producer and editor, Rob Mancabelli, here. Support Curious Minds at Work If you're a fan of the show, show your support by: Rating and reviewing the podcast on iTunes or wherever you subscribe Telling someone about the show Subscribing so you never miss an episode Where to Find Curious Minds at Work Spotify iTunes Tunein Stitcher Google podcasts Overcast

For a good part of my life, I believed that focusing on my weaknesses was the key to achieving success. In fact, I didn't realize how much I'd embraced this way of thinking until I began working with an executive coach. Soon after we started working together, my coach made an observation I've never forgotten. She said, "Gayle, you're great at pointing out your weaknesses - all the ways you feel you don't measure up - but I never hear you talk about your strengths." That's when I realized how this way of thinking had become my default setting. I had to work hard to change it. That's why, when I picked up Dan Cable's latest book, Exceptional: Build Your Personal Highlight Reel and Unlock Your Potential, I knew I wanted to have him back on the show. He captured my old way of thinking with his first sentence, "Many of us think the best path to self-improvement is to face the cold truth about ourselves at our worst." Yet, what Dan quickly points out is that, far from motivating us, this relentless focus on identifying and fixing our weaknesses can create a lot of anxiety, along with feelings of overwhelm, even helplessness. That sounds like a far cry from a path to success, right? Dan's a Professor of Organizational Behavior at London Business School. Since his last book, Alive at Work, he's been studying what happens when we uncover our strengths through others' eyes, through current and former colleagues, bosses, friends, and family members. Dan's approach is fascinating and his research findings are incredible. Episode Links You Need a Personal Highlight Reel by Dan Cable What You Should Follow Instead of Your Passion by Dan Cable Stop Sleepwalking through Life by Dan Cable and Mel Bradman Alive at Work by Dan Cable Post-traumatic growth What Job Crafting Looks Like by Jane E. Dutton and Amy Wrzesniewski Impostor Syndrome Curious Minds at Work Learn more about creator and host, Gayle Allen, and producer and editor, Rob Mancabelli, here. Support Curious Minds at Work If you're a fan of the show, you can show your support by: Rating and reviewing the podcast on iTunes or wherever you subscribe. Telling someone about the show. Subscribing so you never miss an episode. Where to Find Curious Minds at Work Spotify iTunes Tunein Stitcher Google podcasts Overcast

Meaningful conversations can be a creative lab space. At their best, they're a place to share perspectives and be heard. They can also be a place to stress test new ideas and catch the limits in our thinking. When conversations work, we gain a stronger connection to the people we work with. We feel like we understand each other better and that we're channeling each other's knowledge and skills to achieve a bigger goal. Yet these kinds of conversations are far too rare. And I don't think it's intentional. I think it's because we don't know how to design them. That's what motivated me to read Fred Dust's latest book, Making Conversation: Seven Essential Elements of Meaningful Communication. A former senior partner and global managing director at international design firm, IDEO, Fred's designed these kinds of conversations for hundreds of organizations across multiple industries. Fred gives us permission to make better conversations a priority, and he shares insights on how to do it effectively. Episode Links Where Do Ideas Come From? Fred Dust at Aspen Ideas Active Listening Frank Osborn on Brainstorming Responsive Classroom The Op Ed Project Courtney E. Martin Curious Minds at Work Team Learn more about creator and host, Gayle Allen, and producer and editor, Rob Mancabelli, here.  Support Curious Minds at Work If you're a fan of the show, you can show your support by: Rating and reviewing the show on iTunes or wherever you subscribe. Telling someone about the show. Subscribing so you never miss an episode. Where to Find Curious Minds at Work Spotify iTunes Tunein Stitcher Google podcasts Overcast

For most of us, networking is a topic that brings up a lot of strong feelings. And most of those feelings aren't all that positive. Ultimately, we know we should network. But just thinking about it can make us uncomfortable. In fact, research shows that many of us associate networking with something dirty. On top of that, we feel guilty for not devoting more time to it. That's why I wanted to interview Marissa King. Author of the book, Social Chemistry: Decoding the Elements of Human Connection, Marissa is Professor of Organizational Behavior at Yale School of Management and an expert on social networks. Marissa's take on networking is refreshing because she emphasizes the relational aspect. She also provides tools for gauging how we network, so that we can easily see how well our approach is working. Her discussion of networking and her strategies for how to reframe it more positively help us to walk away without feeling icky. At the same time, her tips inspire us to tend to our professional network the way we would our personal one. If you're looking for a fresh take on networking, I think you'll enjoy hearing what Marissa has to say.  Episode Links Shout-out to Heather Cox Richardson for her Letters from an American Professional Networking Makes People Feel Dirty by Carmen Nobel Do People Mix at Mixers? by Paul Ingram and Michael W. Morris Marissa King's site for assessing your networking approach as convener, broker, or expansionist Self-monitoring How to Build a Better Social Network and the work of Ronald Burt Why Do People Gossip? by Sophia Gottfried and the work of Robin Dunbar Yo-Yo Ma and Silkroad Homophily Heidi Roizen Curious Minds at Work Team You can learn more about creator and host, Gayle Allen, and producer and editor, Rob Mancabelli, here. Support Curious Minds at Work If you're a fan of the show, there are three simple things you can do to show your support: Rate and review on iTunes or wherever you subscribe. Tell a friend, colleague, or family member about the show. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Where to Find Curious Minds at Work Spotify iTunes Tunein Stitcher Google podcasts Overcast

When challenging situations arise, how do we make the shift from bystander to helper? What are the factors that determine whether or not we take action? And what if helping means disobeying an authority figure? These are the kinds of questions that made me want to read Catherine Sanderson's latest book, Why We Act: Turning Bystanders into Moral Rebels, and to interview her on the show. In particular, her discussion of the Milgram Shock Experiment, a study that's always fascinated me, got me thinking more deeply about those pivotal moments when we decide whether or not we're going to speak up or step in, rather than stand by. For some background, the Milgram Shock Experiment was first conducted in the 1960s by Stanley Milgram, a psychology professor at Yale. He wanted to find out how far people would go in obeying an authority figure when their obedience knowingly caused harm to another person. In the study, participants delivered an electric shock to a subject they couldn't see. The voltage increased with every wrong answer given. If they refused to administer the shock, a member of the research team - the authority figure - responded with one of four scripted statements. The electric shocks weren't real, but the participant in the study didn't know that. If they refused to administer the shock, the authority figure would recite one of the four scripted statements, for example, "The experiment requires that you continue," or "You have not other choice but to continue." Aside from statements like these, the authority figure never forced participants to deliver the shocks. Yet every participant did. Not one refused. Even when the person receiving the shocks sounded out in pain with moans, shouts, even pleas to stop, the participants kept going. What Catherine talks about in her book, though, are the many participants who wanted to stop. The ones who communicated, at some point along the way, that they didn't want to continue. That's the moment I'm curious about. What would it have taken for them to disobey authority? And what would I have done in that same situation? Catherine is a professor at Amherst College. She's studied what neuroscientists and psychologists have learned about why we stand by and why we speak up. She's also studied what leaders can do to make it safer for people to speak up, which training programs work best for teaching these skills, and what drives the brave souls who always speak up. Episode Links This week's shout-out goes to Emily Levesque, author of the book, The Last Stargazers Bystander effect Young Children Show the Bystander Effect in Helping Situations Social loafing Kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart The Pain of Social Rejection KiVa anti-bullying program Curious Minds Team You can learn more about creator and host, Gayle Allen, and producer and editor, Rob Mancabelli, here.  Support Curious Minds If you're a fan of the show, there are three simple things you can do to support our work: Rate and review the podcast on iTunes or wherever you subscribe. Tell a friend, colleague, or family member about the show. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Where to Find Curious Minds Spotify iTunes Tunein Stitcher Google podcasts Overcast

What will the world look like when we're living and working with robots every day? Robots work on assembly lines. They zoom around warehouses. And they even fly planes. Most of us aren't surprised to hear these stories anymore. But how will we work with robots when they're driving our cars or delivering our food? When millions of robots populate our sidewalks, offices, and residential buildings - when they move beyond the factory floor - we'll need to learn how to interact with them, even teach them. Julie Shah, co-author of the book, What to Expect When You're Expecting Robots: The Future of Human-Robot Collaboration, believes we'll need to tap into our ability to create, problem solve, and learn from experience, in order to "transfer those insights to machines and integrate machines into our work and our everyday lives." She also believes we'll need to think differently about how we design robots and how we gather and share robot data. In particular, she argues that industry and government will need to work more closely together so they can share information on robot performance. This information will help us make rapid improvements, so we can integrate robots more quickly and safely into society. She explains, "The capability of these systems is so dependent on the data used to train them. Being able to share learnings across companies and across an industry is equally important." Julie Shah is a roboticist who directs the Interactive Robotics Group at MIT, where she is also the associate dean of social and ethic responsibilities of computing. Episode Links Inner Workings: Can Robots Make Good Teammates? by Carolyn Beans Integrating Robots into Team-Oriented Environments by Julie Shah Don Norman Three-body problem You Look Like a Thing and I Love You by Janelle Shane Affordance Aviation Safety Reporting System - NASA MIT Schwarzman College of Computing Julie Shah's co-author Laura Major Curious Minds Team You can learn about creator and host, Gayle Allen, and producer and editor, Rob Mancabelli, here.  Support Curious Minds If you're a fan of the show, there are three simple things you can do to support our work: Rate and review the podcast on iTunes or wherever you subscribe. Tell a friend or family member about the show. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Where to Find Curious Minds Spotify iTunes Tunein Stitcher Google podcasts Overcast

What if mathematics could help us rethink gender equality by questioning how society is structured? Women are often told that, to succeed, they need to be more. More competitive. More confident. Even more resilient. In other words, women need to fit themselves into environments created mostly by men. But Eugenia Cheng, author of the book, x + y: A Mathematician's Manifesto for Rethinking Gender, argues that it's not about what women lack but about how society operates. For her, the question is not, "society is like this, how can women become more successful in it?" Instead, it's about asking "why is society like this in the first place?" Eugenia rejects associating certain traits with traditional, binary gender roles. For example, she doesn't think it's helpful to think of men as more competitive or women as more caring. She disagrees with the notion that there's only one way to achieve success, such as the myth of the resilient individual achiever who's unaffected by criticism. Instead, she argues that we're stronger and more resilient when we "build networks of people to help support [us], rather than just having to be strong all by [ourselves]." Eugenia Cheng is Scientist in Residence at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago and honorary visiting fellow at City University of London. Her previous books include, How to Bake Pi, Beyond Infinity, and The Art of Logic. Episode Links Higher-dimensional algebra Mean, median, mode Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez No Contest by Alfie Kohn Equity: A Mathematician Shares Her Solution by Jory Lerback Curious Minds Team You can learn more about creator and host, Gayle Allen, and producer and editor, Rob Mancabelli, here. Support Curious Minds If you're a fan of the show, there are three simple things you can do to support our work: Rate and review the podcast on iTunes or wherever you subscribe. Tell a friend or family member about the show. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Where to Find Curious Minds Spotify iTunes Tunein Stitcher Google podcasts Overcast

What's driven our relentless obsession with economic efficiency and who are its winners and losers? For much of the twentieth century, the U.S. economy benefited most individuals and families, no matter their social class. In recent decades, that's not been the case. Roger Martin examines this shift in his latest book, When More is Not Better: Overcoming America's Obsession with Economic Efficiency. He shares data indicating that, while the wealthy continue to prosper, the average American family does not. While Roger is concerned with what lies ahead for these families, he is equally concerned about the future of the U.S. economic system. He says, "What set off the project behind this book is that the median family, who is also the swing voter, is going to give up on capitalism as the system it wants to have run this country." Professor of Strategic Management, Emeritus, at the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Management, Roger previously served as Dean and Director of the Martin Prosperity Institute. In addition, he's published eleven books, written numerous articles for Harvard Business Review, and has been named the number one management thinker by Thinkers50. Based on his extensive research and his work with hundreds of companies, Roger believes organizational leaders can change things for the better. In this interview, he shares examples of how companies, like Southwest Airlines, have done just that. At the same time, Roger discusses how our longstanding model of the U.S. economy as machine got us here. He points out, "It's kind of an accident. We've done some things based on models we thought were good that have gotten us in places we don't like at all." Episode Links Why Information Grows by Cesar Hidalgo The Persona Project  Wassily Leontief Pareto Distribution David Ricardo and comparative advantage Cristiano Rinaldo Curious Minds Team You can learn more about creator and host, Gayle Allen, and producer and editor, Rob Mancabelli, here. Support Curious Minds If you're a fan of the show, here are three simple things you can do to support our work: Rate and review the podcast on iTunes or wherever you subscribe.  Tell a friend or family member about the show. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Where to Find Curious Minds Spotify iTunes Tunein Stitcher Google podcasts Overcast