

Flourish FM
jonandnick
What does it take to flourish? We started Flourish FM to share cutting edge research from world experts on how to thrive, so you can take away big ideas and practical steps to enhance your life, the lives of others, and, ultimately, make the world a better place.
Flourish FM is hosted by Dr. Jon Beale and Dr. Nick Holton, and in collaboration with the Human Flourishing Program at Harvard University, the Department of Education at the University of Oxford, and The Shipley School.
Flourish FM is hosted by Dr. Jon Beale and Dr. Nick Holton, and in collaboration with the Human Flourishing Program at Harvard University, the Department of Education at the University of Oxford, and The Shipley School.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jan 17, 2023 • 55min
Episode #19: Mathematics for flourishing, with Dr. Francis Su
In this episode, we talked to Professor Francis Su about the role of mathematics in flourishing, how mathematics can promote flourishing, and his argument that the purpose of mathematics is to support flourishing.
Francis Su is the Benediktsson-Karwa Professor of Mathematics at Harvey Mudd College and a former president of the Mathematical Association of America. In 2013, he received the Haimo Award, a nationwide teaching prize for college math faculty, and in 2018 he won the Halmos-Ford writing award. His work has been featured in Quanta Magazine, Wired, and the New York Times. His 2020 book Mathematics for Human Flourishing, which won the 2021 Euler Book Prize, offers an inclusive vision of what math is, who it’s for, and why anyone should learn it.
Key conversation points:
Francis’ definition of flourishing as a “wholeness of being and doing” and the way he distinguishes between flourishing and happiness
Francis’ argument on the role of mathematics in human flourishing
How mathematics can cultivate virtues important for flourishing and which virtues mathematics can cultivate in a particularly strong way
Francis’ approach towards teaching mathematics in such a way as to cultivate virtues among students of mathematics, such as creativity and an appreciation for beauty
Francis’ correspondence with Christopher Jackson, an inmate serving a 32-year sentence for armed robberies who started writing to Francis seven years into his sentence, about his passion for mathematics, and the influence this correspondence has had on Francis’ work on mathematics and flourishing, and how he sees mathematics
Francis’ views on how mathematics education needs to change to cultivate virtues
francissu.com
flourishfmpodcast.com

Jan 3, 2023 • 45min
Episode #18: The science of happiness, with Dr. Tal Ben-Shahar
In this episode, we talked to happiness expert Dr. Tal Ben-Shahar about the science of happiness, focusing on his account of happiness as “wholebeing,” comprised of five elements of well-being which make up his “SPIRE” model: Spiritual, Physical, Intellectual, Relational and Emotional well-being.
Tal Ben-Shahar is an author and lecturer who taught two of the largest classes in Harvard University’s history, Positive Psychology and The Psychology of Leadership, and taught Happiness Studies at Columbia University. His books on happiness have been translated into more than thirty languages and have appeared on bestseller lists around the world, and his work has featured on media outlets including CNN, BBC and the Daily Show.
Tal obtained his PhD in Organizational Behavior and BA in Philosophy and Psychology from Harvard. Today he consults and lectures around the world to executives in multinational corporations, including Google and Microsoft, the general public, and at-risk populations. Tal is a serial entrepreneur, and is the co-founder and chief learning officer of Happiness Studies Academy, Potentialife, Maytiv, and Happier.TV.
Key conversation points:
How Tal defines happiness and its relation to flourishing: flourishing is the outcome of happiness
The relation between Tal’s “SPIRE” model of happiness and flourishing, and between happiness and wholeness
Tal’s definition of spirituality as living a life in which we see our activities as meaningful and purposeful
Practices for building spiritual wellbeing: exercise to write down a “calling description” rather than a job description
Tal’s criticism of widespread hurriedness today, and a strategy for going through life in less of a hurry
The connection between happiness and “antifragility”
Antifragility as “Resilience 2.0,” and its connection with post-traumatic growth: not only bouncing back, but becoming stronger and healthier than before
A principle Tal recommends for recovering from trauma: “things don’t happen for the best, but we can make the best of things that happen,” and how to apply this to our lives
The connection between physical exercise and happiness: “not exercising is like taking a depressant”
talbenshahar.com
happinessstudies.academy
flourishfmpodcast.com

Dec 19, 2022 • 55min
Episode #17: Collective resilience and culturally competent flourishing with Drs. Lucy Hone and Denise Quinlan
In this episode, we talked to Dr Lucy Hone and Dr Denise Quinlan about their work on building well-being and resilience among different populations, and how to develop the most important skills associated with resilience.
Dr Lucy Hone is author of the 2017 book Resilient Grieving: How to Find Your Way Through a Devastating Loss and gave the TED talk ‘3 Secrets of Resilient People’, which was among the Top 20 TED talks of 2020. She is co-author (with Denise Quinlan) of the Educators’ Guide to Whole-school Wellbeing, co-convenor of Wellbeing in Education New Zealand, presenter on many of the New Zealand Institute of Wellbeing and Resilience’s online courses, and has featured in the Guardian, Washington Post, and on the BBC, ABC, Channel News Asia, Swedish Television, The Bolt Report Australia and Television New Zealand.
Dr Denise Quinlan is acknowledged internationally as an outstanding facilitator and trainer, helping people explore wellbeing and resilience. Participants have described training with her as ‘life-changing’. She has worked alongside leading resilience researchers Martin Seligman and Karen Reivich, delivering the Penn Resilience Program in Australia and the UK. Her podcast, ‘Bringing Wellbeing to Life’, was recommended by TED in their culture list for 2020. Denise’s academic research is published internationally, and her publications include the Educators’ Guide to Whole-school Wellbeing, which she co-authored with Lucy Hone. She is co-convenor of Wellbeing in Education New Zealand.
Key conversation points:
What resilience is and the difference between individual and collective resilience. Individual resilience can be thought of as “learning to swim” and collective resilience thought of as “building the pool.” We need both to be truly resilient.
Ways to build resilience, individually and collectively: healthy relationships; having a “mission” in life; cultivating self-awareness, self-regulation and self-compassion; and developing flexible and accurate thinking.
What trauma is and what post-traumatic growth (PTSG) is, and Lucy & Denise’s argument for why PTSG requires struggle after trauma.
Our “explanatory style”: how we explain what has happened to us, and why this is important for well-being and resilience.

Dec 5, 2022 • 1h 8min
Episode # 16: Spirituality and Flourishing, with Dr. Lisa Miller
Dr. Lisa Miller, author of The Spiritual Child and a professor, discusses the benefits of spirituality for well-being, the distinction between spirituality and religious belief, and the transformative effect of service and altruism. They explore concepts like transcendence, self-transcendent experiences, synchronicity, and the power of deep relationships. They also discuss the connection between spirituality, meaning, and living a morally good life.

Nov 21, 2022 • 1h 5min
Episode # 15: The science of friendship and flourishing, with Dr. Marisa Franco
Dr. Marisa G. Franco is a psychologist, Professor at the University of Maryland and author of the New York Times bestseller Platonic: How The Science of Attachment Can Help You Make — and Keep — Friends. She writes about friendship for Psychology Today and has been a featured connection expert for major publications including the New York Times, The Telegraph, and Vice. She speaks on belonging at corporations, government agencies, non-profits, and universities. On her website you can take a quiz to assess your strengths and weaknesses as a friend & reach out for speaking engagements.
Key themes for discussion:
The role of friendship in flourishing, and why friendship is so important for flourishing
How we can apply research on attachment styles to cultivate great friendships.
https://www.flourishfmpodcast.com

Nov 8, 2022 • 1h 3min
Episode #14: Types of relationships and their role in a fulfilling life, with therapist and relationship coach, Nicole Nourian
In this episode, we talked to therapist and relationship coach, Nicole Nourian, about healthy relationships and how to build them, character strengths such as resilience and autonomy, the importance of growth in relationships, and how to cultivate “radical acceptance” - coming to terms with difficult events in life outside our control.
Nicole Nourian is a therapist born and raised in LA. Her journey in psychology started at UCLA, where she graduated with a Bachelors of Arts in Psychology and also became a certified yoga instructor and certified life coach, specializing in relationships. Nicole went on to receive her Masters in Clinical Psychology at Pepperdine University, and is currently working as a therapist in LA.
Nicole’s experience includes working with individuals, families, and couples to guide them towards meeting their goals in the healthiest way possible. Nicole does not apply one theory to all her clients but rather approaches each individual with an eclectic approach that fits them best. Nicole has observed in her therapy the crucial importance of romantic and platonic relationships play in our daily lives. Whether it be heartbreak, attachment issues, animosity with loved ones, or maintaining a healthy relationship, Nicole emphasizes the ways in which dissatisfaction with one’s relationships can have a huge impact on one’s mental health.
In her practice, Nicole works hard to break barriers and old habits that may be contributing to one’s happiness. Nicole’s Instagram page has generated millions of views on content relating to self-esteem, relationships, and mental health.
Key conversation points:
Types of relationships, the connections between them and their roles in our lives
Nicole’s argument that our relationship with ourselves is the most important relationship to develop, because of its benefits for our well-being and positive impact on other relationship types
What a healthy relationship with yourself involves and how to build it
What resilience is, its importance to living well, its connection with other psychological concepts such as antifragility and grit, and how to build it
The connection between building healthy relationships and building resilience
What autonomy is and why it is important for relationships
“Radical acceptance”: coming to terms with difficult events in life outside our control - what this involves and how to cultivate it
The importance of individual and mutual growth in healthy relationships
Instagram @BalancewithNic
Booking therapy with Nicole
flourishfmpodcast.com

Oct 25, 2022 • 1h 12min
Epsiode # 13: Meaning, happiness, morality and flourishing - a conversation with Will Reusch
In this episode, we talked to Will Reusch about whether an evil person can live a meaningful life and flourish; what happiness is and how its role in our lives changes depending on how we define it; and the similarities and differences between influential contemporary theories of flourishing.
Will Reusch is an educator and podcaster. For the last thirteen years he has taught multiple subjects at public and private schools in Los Angeles, his main subject being social studies. Since 2019 he has hosted the podcast Cylinder Radio, an educational podcast which focuses on exploring controversial topics.
Will never had an interest in academics at school and struggled to connect what he was learning to build a successful and meaningful life. He came to believe that educational systems designed to teach children to become capable, informed, and equipped seem to fail in achieving these goals for so many young people. Will decided to become a schoolteacher to try to improve this.
Key conversation points:
The importance of morality, character and virtue for flourishing, and possible reasons why evil people cannot live meaningful lives or flourish
Different definitions of happiness and how it takes on different roles in education depending on how it’s defined
The problems with aiming for happiness in education or as an end goal in life
The problems with thinking of happiness as pleasure and the importance of thinking of happiness as a long-term state
Two major theories of flourishing: positive psychology’s “PERMA” model (Positive emotions; Engagement; positive Relationships; Meaning; and Accomplishment) and the Human Flourishing Program at Harvard’s account
williamreusch.com
flourishfmpodcast.com

Oct 11, 2022 • 46min
Episode#12: How to progress through life from one strength to another
In this episode, we talked to Professor Arthur Brooks about happiness, wisdom, love, relationships, religion and spirituality, and why these are important for our flourishing, particularly as we move into the latter half of our lives.
Arthur C. Brooks is the William Henry Bloomberg Professor of the Practice of Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School and Professor of Management Practice at the Harvard Business School. Before joining Harvard in July 2019, he served for ten years as president of the Washington, D.C.-based American Enterprise Institute, one of the world’s leading think tanks. Brooks is the author of 12 books, including the #1 New York Times bestseller “From Strength to Strength,” and national bestsellers “Love Your Enemies” and “The Conservative Heart”. He has also published dozens of academic journal articles and the textbook “Social Entrepreneurship”. He is a columnist for The Atlantic, host of the podcast “How to Build a Happy Life,” and subject of the 2019 documentary film “The Pursuit,” which Variety named as one of the “Best Documentaries on Netflix” in August 2019. He gives more than 100 speeches per year around the U.S., Europe, and Asia. Prior to his work in academia and public policy, Brooks spent 12 years as a professional French hornist in the United States and Spain.
Key conversation points:
The kinds of relationships that are most important to cultivate and how to cultivate them.
The distinction between “real” and “deal friends”: why focusing on the former is vital for happiness but focusing on the latter leads to loneliness.
How to ensure you have sufficient “real relationships” in your life.
Why love is so important for happiness and flourishing.
The importance of developing a vision of what you love and do.
The two intelligence “curves” in life: moving from fluid to crystallized intelligence.
Why religion, spirituality, philosophy or a connection with something higher are important for flourishing.
Arthur’s most recent book, From Strength to Strength: Finding Success, Happiness and Deep Purpose in the Second Half of Life and the seven words he uses to sum it up: “use things, love people, worship the divine”.
Joining us to interview Arthur is Matthew T. Lee, Professor of the Social Sciences and Humanities at the Institute for Studies of Religion at Baylor University. He is also a Research Associate and Director of the Flourishing Network at the Human Flourishing Program at Harvard University; a member of the Global Study of Human Flourishing research team; a Distinguished Visiting Scholar of Health, Flourishing, and Positive Psychology at Stony Brook University’s Center for Medical Humanities, Compassionate Care, and Bioethics; and Visiting Scholar at the Benson-Henry Institute for Mind Body Medicine at Massachusetts General Hospital.
arthurbrooks.com
flourishfmpodcast.com

Sep 26, 2022 • 1h 30min
Episode# 11: Flow & Flourishing Part 2: Flow in your work
This is the second in a two-part series on the relationship between flourishing and flow - the psychological state of optimal experience and performance. Research suggests that experiencing flow significantly enhances our well-being.
In this episode, we talk to Dr Jared Weintraub and Dr Gerrit McGowan about the role of flow in work and how to get more into flow in your work.
Dr Jared Weintraub is the founder of The Flow Group, LLC., an organizational and business development firm that works with individuals and companies to create and maintain happy, healthy, and productive workplaces. Jared holds a Ph.D. from Hofstra University, a Master’s degree from the Chicago School of Professional Psychology, and a certification as a Senior Professional of Human Resources (SPHR). He has worked with start-ups, Fortune 500 companies, and organizations across various industries, providing internal and external consulting, coaching, and managing marketing and sales teams. He recently received his Ph.D. in Applied Org
anizational Psychology from Hofstra University, where he researched Flow Theory - how, when, and why individuals, teams, and organizations can get into “the Zone.” Most recently, this research has explored how we can use technology-based solutions to "nudge" behavior change in order to develop key competencies for flourishing at work. His over ten years of experience include: teaching undergraduate and graduate courses, designing and implementing training programs, employee engagement, performance management, needs assessment, employment law compliance, administration of benefits, and so on.
Dr Gerrit McGowan is a 4x startup founder, angel investor, and peak performance coach. He is the founder of the Syntegrity Group, Kula.com, Effectuate Apps, ICELab, the Most Awesome Founder Podcast, the WHU Accelerator, and numerous other short-lived ventures. But he is perhaps most recognised for inventing the concept of Cause-Related Loyalty Marketing and its SaaS implementations such as MyCoke Rewards Donate to Schools, Kellogg’s Points with Purpose, Red Robin Eat Up-Give Back Rewards, and JetBlue’s TrueGiving. When not building ventures, Gerrit is helping others build theirs - having coached over 1000 founders and nascent entrepreneurs across five continents. He is a All-Star Mentor for Techstars, CEO Coach for Alchemist Accelerator, mentor for APX, Founder Institute, Earlybird VisionLab, and advisor/investor/shareholder in numerous high-growth ventures. Throughout his career, Gerrit has led the development of over a dozen technology products; raised over $10m in funding; and supported startups that have raised over $100m in venture capital. His work has been honoured with two Canadian Institute of Planners Awards for Excellence; as a finalist for the Guardian’s Social Enterprise of the Year Award; and a SXSW Startup Showcase selection.
Key conversation points:
How Gerrit and Jared both came into research and work around the flow state
How flow takes various points along a spectrum of focused attention
How flow and flourishing at work are connected with important work outcomes
The interesting relationship between flow, stress and anxiety
The appropriate role of stress and challenge in flourishing and flow
Gerrit’s study of flow and burnout among entrepreneurs
The difference between work-life balance and work-life synergy
How to create more flow at in your team or organization
flourishfmpodcast.com

Sep 12, 2022 • 1h 14min
Episode # 10: Flow & Flourishing Part 1: The Flow State
This is the first of a two-part series on the relationship between flourishing and flow - the psychological state of optimal experience and performance. Research suggests that experiencing flow significantly enhances our well-being.
In this episode, we talk to Dr Carol Grojean and Dr Brent Hogarth about the flow state and its relationship to flourishing.
As a Leadership professional in the areas of Organizational Effectiveness, Project Management, and Transformational Change, Dr Carol Grojean has spent the past 20 years’ guiding large, complex, strategic initiatives. Carol is adept at designing and implementing programs which drive strategic business and organizational culture shifts through building trust and delivering results. With extensive business process, project, and program management skillset built on 3 Masters degrees and a Ph.D. in organizational systems psychology: leadership and social transformation as well as wilderness rite of passage guiding, council facilitating, and peace mediation training. Carol brings a unique and much-needed perspective on the human behavior in human systems, focused on building cultures where individuals at all levels can bring their distinct, creative talents to their roles while providing the necessary skills to the whole system values and vision.
Dr. Brent Hogarth is a Sport and Clinical Psychologist from Vancouver, Canada. He is an expert in training flow-state, mindfulness, and self-control for both sport and corporate athletes. Brent has significant training and experience providing performance enhancement and mental health counseling. This includes, but is not limited to, working with Olympic and professional athletes, serial entrepreneurs, members of the USA military, computer engineers, authors, hedge fund managers and more. Brent's clinical counseling experience is vast, and he sees everyone as having the ability to be a high-performer. He completed his Doctoral fellowships at the University of Texas, at El Paso, and Lehigh University, in Bethlehem, PA. After a short stint as a fitness trainer, he traveled to India where he lived in a Buddhist Monastery and completed a Yoga Teacher training Course. It was at this moment - sitting in meditation on the hills of McLeod Ganj, India - that Brent committed to becoming a psychologist. Dr. Hogarth is a Humanistic-Existential psychologist. His theoretical orientation is Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). ACT uses acceptance and mindfulness strategies, together with commitment and behavior change strategies, to increase psychological flexibility. Psychological flexibility means contacting the present moment fully, and based on what the situation affords, changing or persisting in behavior in the service of clients’ chosen values.
Key conversation points:
The place of flow in human flourishing
Why focusing on integration of the self and experience is important for flow: “doing” vs. “being”, and integrating the “me” with the “we”
Why it’s important for getting into flow to not try to get into flow, but rather to “let go”
The importance of embracing and engaging in a process of struggle to get into flow
The importance of being aware of the potential dark side of flow
flourishfmpodcast.com


