
Night Owls
Joe Klein and John Ellis on what's happening and what happens next. Joe Klein is the author of seven books and "Sanity Clause," a Substack newsletter. John Ellis is the founder and editor of two Substack newsletters — News Items and Political News Items. The two friends have covered American politics for a combined 95 years.
Latest episodes

May 13, 2025 • 53min
Night Owls Episode 65 (Daniela Rus)
Daniela Rus, Director of MIT's CSAIL, shares her journey from Romania to robotics and AI leadership. She discusses the captivating concept of physical intelligence and the marriage of robotics with AI. The conversation digs into her research on whale communication and the intriguing parallels between animal and machine intelligence. Daniela also examines the current challenges of self-driving cars and the future of AI in transforming industries. Lastly, she reflects on the importance of authentic human connections in an increasingly digital world.

May 4, 2025 • 36min
Night Owls Episode 64 (Wolfgang Munchau Part 3)
The last part of our interview with the brilliant Wolgang Munchau

May 4, 2025 • 21min
Night Owls Episode 62 (Wolfgang Munchau Part 2)
The 2nd in our series where we interview Wolfgang Munchau

9 snips
Apr 24, 2025 • 56min
Episode 61 (with Larry Summers)
Larry Summers, a prominent economist and former Treasury Secretary, delves into Team Trump's economic strategies, emphasizing the psychological influences behind them. He critiques common misconceptions about trade, arguing that deficits can sometimes indicate economic vitality, while advocating for thoughtful policy approaches. Summers discusses capital flight trends and their historical parallels, the challenges facing academia in a politically charged landscape, and the transformative implications of artificial intelligence on governance and society.

Mar 25, 2025 • 52min
Night Owls Episode 60
The podcast dives into the fallout from a canceled Pentagon meeting involving Elon Musk and its implications for national security. It analyzes the political turmoil surrounding executive actions and the shifting alliances in U.S. foreign policy. Economic discussions highlight the impact of Evergrande's troubles and public sentiment in U.S.-Canada relations. The show also addresses the growing conflict between big tech and right-wing factions, while exploring AI's role in research and technology advancements. Finally, it touches on climate change and its effects on personal vehicles.

Mar 18, 2025 • 1h
Night Owls Episode 59 (with Martin Wolf)
Martin Wolf, Chief Economics Commentator at the Financial Times and author of 'The Crisis of Democratic Capitalism,' delves into the complexities of modern geopolitics. He discusses China's rapid rise to superpower status and its ramifications on global economics. The conversation shifts to the intricate ties between democracy and capitalism, underscoring the perils of authoritarianism. Wolf also tackles the looming threat of global debt and offers a glimmer of optimism through technology, punctuating the need for ongoing political engagement.

11 snips
Mar 3, 2025 • 49min
Night Owls Episode 58 (With Sen. Tom Cotton)
Senator Tom Cotton, Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and author of "Seven Things You Can't Say About China," shares insights from his political journey and military background. The conversation dives into the lab leak theory of COVID-19 origins and critiques U.S. policies on China, highlighting the continuity of authoritarianism. Cotton discusses China's geopolitical threats, economic vulnerabilities, and the high-stakes role of Taiwan in global relations, emphasizing the need for strategic military reforms.

Feb 22, 2025 • 51min
Night Owls Episode 57
A world in disarray

Feb 9, 2025 • 1h 9min
Episode 56 (with Al From)
Al From, founder of the Democratic Leadership Council and a key strategist in the Democratic Party, shares insights on revitalizing the party's identity. He discusses historical challenges faced in establishing the DLC and the importance of innovative policy-making, particularly around educational reform and economic opportunity. Al emphasizes the urgency of reconnecting with working-class voters and adopting a centrist approach to engage younger demographics. He also explores creative solutions for student loan relief tied to national service.

Jan 25, 2025 • 58min
Episode 55
Inauguration Week in Review! Joe and John on the ascendant Trump, the triumph of the Tech Bros, Dems in disarray, the Lars Anderson Bridge and the whereabouts of Philip K. Howard.