Deviate

“My ambition was not financial, but a creative ambition toward fulfillment and satisfaction — and to be a better human toward those whom I loved.” – Brian Koppelman In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Brian discuss podcast fandom, and how listening to podcasts is intimate in a way other media is not (2:00); self-improvement and ambition versus fulfillment, and the cultural reach of what Brian has created (11:00); the influence of music, and how a single album or artwork affects you at certain ages or times of your life (22:00); and masculine emotions as they are expressed in music, and writing to music informs your creativity (41:00). Brian Koppleman (@briankoppelman) is a screenwriter and co-creator / showrunner of the television show Billions. His screenwriting credits include Rounders and Ocean’s Thirteen. He is also the host of The Moment podcast.  Notable Links: Grantland (sports and culture website) Bill Simmons (podcaster and sports writer) Wesley Morris on podcast fame (Deviate episode) Killing Yourself to Live, by Chuck Klosterman (book) This Is What They Want (Jimmy Connors documentary) “I Contain Multitudes” (2020 Bob Dylan song) The Four Hour Workweek, by Tim Ferriss (book) Rolf Potts on Travel Tactics (Tim Ferriss podcast episode) Seth Godin (business executive) Scriptnotes (podcast) Ryan Lochte (Olympic swimmer) Neil Peart (musician) Ghost Rider: Travels on the Healing Road, by Neil Peart (book) Tracy Chapman (singer-songwriter) Exile in Guyville (Liz Phair album) Bright Lights, Big City, by Jay McInerney (novel) The Number of the Beast (Iron Maiden album) Judas Priest (music artist) Stryper (American Christian metal band) Spoon River Anthology, by Edger Lee Masters The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“Realizing that you will die greatly clarifies your vision of life, and stimulates opportunities for making the vision real.”  –Ed Buryn In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ed discuss the impetus behind Ed’s first travels to Europe by van in the 1960s, and his early forays into self-printed and self-promoted books about the experience (3:00); how travel to Europe was different 50 years ago, and the joy and freedom that comes with not knowing what happens next (14:30); Ed’s philosophies and influences, including living in “the now” (21:00); how travel allows you to reinvent yourself, and how meeting people is the best gift of travel (36:00); and Ed’s ambitions for poetry and travel, and his advice to travelers in today’s world (44:30). Ed Buryn is an author and photographer who was one of the first to popularize the term “vagabonding” through the publication of his books Vagabonding In Europe and North America and Vagabonding in America. For more about Ed, check out https://edburyn.com. Notable Links: Kevin Kelly (writer, editor, and publisher) Tony Wheeler (founder of Lonely Planet travel guides) Bill Dalton (founder of Moon travel guides) Charles Plymell on the Beat Generation (Deviate episode) The Drifters, by James Michener (book) Zorba the Greek, by Nikos Kazantzakis (book) Henry Miller (author) CouchSurfing ((homestay and social networking service) Richard Halliburton (traveler and author) Tarot (playing cards used for divination) Nevada City (community in northern California) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks has employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“I met people who would say, ‘I wish I had more time to travel like you do.’ They had more money than time, and I had more time than money. In terms of traveling it’s much better to have more time than more money. …If you have a chance to travel, just do it. You won’t regret it.” – Kevin Kelly Kevin Kelly (@kevin2kelly) is a polymath in the truest sense of the word. Aside from being a co-founder of Wired magazine, he is also co-founder of the Rosetta Project, which is aiming to build an archive of all documented human languages, and he serves on the board of the Long Now Foundation. He is a photographer, writer, and futurist (he was “futurist adviser” on the 2002 Steven Spielberg movie, Minority Report), with much of his work centering on Asian and digital culture. In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin discuss the inspiration for his Asia travel in the 1970s (3:00); getting around and dealing with language barriers (15:00); the people he encountered while traveling in Asia, and the life-expanding nature of his journey (32:00); what he packed (47:00); modernity and technology in Asia, and managing his photography during travel (1:07:00); and self-actualization, discovering oneself through travel, and what the future holds in Asia. For more on Kevin, check out http://kk.org/ Notable Links: Asia Grace, by Kevin Kelly (photography book) “Shoulda Been Dead” (This American Life episode on Kevin’s Jerusalem conversion experience) Out of Control, by Kevin Kelly (book) Kevin Kelly’s interview with Tim Ferriss (podcast episode) “1000 True Fans” by Kevin Kelly (essay) Aerogram (pre-stamped airmail envelope) Poste restante (postal pick-up service for travelers) Maureen Wheeler (publisher) Tony Wheeler (publisher) Rick Steves (travel writer and publisher) Hilary Bradt (guidebook publisher) Bill Dalton (guidebook publisher) Lonely Planet (travel guidebook) Moon Guide (travel guidebook) Rough Guides (travel guidebook) National Geographic (magazine) Video Night in Kathmandu, by Pico Iyer (book) Leaves of Grass, by Walt Whitman (book) Hippie Trail (travel route) “Remembering the Hippie Trail” by Rolf Potts (essay) Recomendo (weekly recommendation newsletter) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The opening line of your work should hold within it the germ of your entire idea. Attention spans are growing ever shorter. Grab your reader while you can.” – Bettina Gilois Bettina Gilois (1961-2020) was an award-winning screenwriter and author who worked in Hollywood for more than thirty years. Her screen credits included McFarland, USA and Glory Road. In this rebroadcast episode of Deviate (which originally aired in July of 2019), Bettina and Rolf discuss writing about real people (4:00); Bettina’s career path and the importance of perseverance (24:00); the importance of simplicity in storytelling (41:00); why certain stories are worth telling (56:00); and the craft of writing (1:15:00). Notable Links: Bettina’s Chapman University page (includes links to craft-advice essays) Thomas Kinkaid (painter) Billion Dollar Painter, by Bettina Gilois (book) Andy Warhol (artist) Talking Heads (band) Ari Emanuel (talent agent) Twister (film) Robert Durst (real estate heir) Rick Hall (record producer) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. If you’ve ever planned a trip with multiple stops, you know that finding the right flights can be difficult. Between balancing travel logistics and cost, it often becomes impossible to build an itinerary that matches your travel goals.  AirTreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“In America aging is often seen as an insult rather than an inevitable human process. We don’t celebrate getting older; we ‘fight’ age by pretending to be young.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate Rolf and his parents, Alice and George Potts, talk about how surviving the COVID-19 pandemic has changed their relationship, and how it gave them a pretext to go through a “death checklist” together (3:00); how one’s grandparents and parents live on in one’s memories and one’s conversations, the life-values they passed on, and what it felt like when those loved ones declined and died (14:00); how, over the years, elderly people and philosophers have come to terms with notions of decline and death (31:00); and personal insights about what it’s like to have grown older after having lived a long life (44:00). George and Alice Potts are retired schoolteachers based in Kansas. George taught science at various Wichita high schools, as well as at Friends University, where he pioneered graduate-level programs in Zoo Science and Environmental Studies. He also helped facilitate the Outdoor Wildlife Learning Sites (OWLS) program for the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks. Alice taught second graders in the Wichita public schools for more than 30 years. In 1994 her classes succeed in promoting legislation to declare the barred tiger salamander the Kansas State Amphibian. Notable Links: What to Do When a Loved One Dies (AARP death checklist) How we die in America (Deviate episode) The therapeutic uses of reading scripture (Deviate episode) On losing one’s parents to COVID-19 (Deviate episode) 1985 World Series (baseball championship) Joe Louis (20th century boxing champion) John Prine (singer-songwriter) Alzheimer’s disease (chronic neurodegenerative disease) You Are My Sunshine (folk song) Will You Miss Me When I’m Gone (folk song) Ecclesiastes (book in the Old Testament of the Bible) Epistle of James (book in the New Testament of the Bible) Crowfoot (19th century Siksika First Nation chief) Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) Epicurus (ancient Greek philosopher) Varanasi (Hindu holy city in India) Lamentations 3:22-23 (Old Testament Bible verse) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“One of the miracles of travel writing is to constantly be reminded of how much we don’t know.” – Doug Bock Clark In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Doug discuss how travel writing is defined, and what purposes it serves in the twenty-first century (3:30), the boundaries of travel writing, the nuanced task of trying to humanize people in a travel story, and the future of the form (19:00). Then, Rolf reads his essay, “Why Travel Writing Matters” from the Fall 2017 issue of The Chattahoochee Review (29:00). Doug Bock Clark (@DougBockClark) is a GQ correspondent and a contributor for the website of The New Yorker. His first book, The Last Whalers, was a New York Times Notable Book for 2019. He also produced the feature documentary Assassins, which premiered at Sundance in January 2020 and was inspired by one of his investigations. Notable Links: The Missionary and the Uncontacted Tribe, by Doug Bock Clark (article) Down Myanmar’s Sacred Irrawaddy River, by Doug Bock Clark (article) Behind the Beautiful Forevers, by Katherine Boo (book) Peter Hessler (writer) Storming “The Beach”, by Rolf Potts (essay) Making sense of The Beach, 20 years later (podcast episode) Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, by Rolf Potts (book) William of Rubruck (explorer) Siberut (island in Indonesia) Andaman Islands (archipelago in the Bay of Bengal) Zhang Qian (2nd century BC Chinese envoy) The Histories, by Herodotus (ancient travel narrative) Orhan Pamuk (Turkish author) Why Travel Writing Matters, by Rolf Potts (essay) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Santa Fe Writing Workshop, the leading experiential photographic workshop and writers lab in the US. Offering world-renowned professional photographers and Pulitzer Prize winning writers both in the U.S. and abroad, its reputation has been built upon a foundation of creativity and community for individuals of all levels. Prioritizing inspiration and openness to new ideas as much as it does craft, the Santa Fe Writing Workshop establishes itself as an enclave of creativity and education. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“The Lamalerans hunt in a way that is almost exactly the same as the way people hunted during Moby Dick’s time. Going on one of these hunts is analogous to what Ishmael or Queequeg was doing.” –Doug Bock Clark In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Doug talk about how he came to write about the Lamalerans, and how he aimed to evoke a sense for what it’s like to live in the isolated fishing communities of that part of the world (2:30); how and why the Lamalerans came to embrace a traditional hunting and barter lifestyle, and what indigenous groups are trying to live similar lifestyles (7:30); unique social rituals, spiritual systems, and ways of speaking carried out by Lamalerans (18:30); what aspects of modernity had been embraced by the tribespeople, and why, when Doug went to that part of the world (25:00); Doug’s personal experience of living on the island with the Lamalerans, and how he chose to tell the story of the islanders​ (33:00); how the influence of technology and the outside world, including tourism, is affecting the Lamalerans (41:00); and what encounters with cultures like this can teach us about who we are, who we were, and who we will be (53:00). Doug Bock Clark (@DougBockClark) is a GQ correspondent and a contributor for the website of The New Yorker. His first book, The Last Whalers, was a New York Times Notable Book for 2019. He also produced the feature documentary Assassins, which premiered at Sundance in January 2020 and was inspired by one of his investigations. Notable Links: Aboriginal whaling (traditional hunting method) Lembata (island in Indonesia) John Allen Chau (American missionary killed on North Sentinel Island) “The American Missionary and the Uncontacted Tribe” (article) Lashed-lug boat (ancient boat-building technique) Melanesians (indigenous peoples in the South Pacific) Moby-Dick, by Herman Melville (novel) 19th century American whaling (industry) Ishmael and Queequeg (Moby-Dick characters) Amish (traditionalist Christian sect) Rumspringa (Amish rite of passage) Bahasa Indonesian (language) Lamaholot (language) Siberut (largest the Mentawai Islands, near Sumatra) Human Planet (TV documentary series) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Carryology, and many other industry outlets. This episode is also brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. AirTreks has employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The AirTreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“One reason why Gatsby is called a ‘Great American Novel’ is that it illuminates a conversation we haven’t stopped having in this country. We keep pretending to be people we’re not.” –Rolf Potts In this episode of Deviate Rolf and his old high school friends reflect on the role of Nick Carraway as the narrator of The Great Gatsby, how he deals with race and privilege, and whether or not his perspective is reliable (7:00); Fitzgerald’s use of language and juxtaposition in depicting characters and their relationships (22:00); the characters’ lack of moral grounding amid the opulence and wealth, and how it drives the story (28:00); how the youth and the age of the characters in Gatsby resonates differently depending your age when you read it (38:30); and how big questions like love, money, and life are addressed in the novel (49:00). [Easter Egg “Lightning Round” kicks in at 51:45.] Kaye Monk-Morgan is an Assistant Vice President for Academic Affairs at Wichita State University, where she facilitates leadership and professional development opportunities for low-income and first-generation students. Erin Perry O’Donnell operates Dovetail Community Workshop, which teaches woodworking classes in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Tom Davis teaches English at Sumner Academy of Arts & Science in Kansas City, Kansas. Notable Links: The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald (novel) Wichita North High (public school) Black buck (racial slur) Nouveau riche (class-specific term) Unreliable narrator (storytelling point-of-view) Bromance (close male relationship) Wall Street Crash of 1929 (stock market crash) 1918 Spanish flu pandemic (influenza outbreak) Poor Richard’s Almanack, by Benjamin Franklin (book) Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass (memoir) Immanuel Kant (German philosopher) Baby boomers (demographic cohort) “The Ivy Crown,” by William Carlos Williams (poem) Playboy Mansion (former home of Hugh Hefner) Kato Kaelin (pop-culture personality) Manic Pixie Dream Girl (stock character in films) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“You can’t ever really know what a museum will offer you until you get there.” – Kendra Green In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kendra discuss their own earliest fascination with museums (2:40); the appeal and particularities of Icelandic museums (10:00); museums as a form of national identity (24:00); the relationship of collecting to the creation of museums (35:00); and museums as a way of engaging with one’s imagination (46:00).  Kendra Greene is a writer, artist, and author of The Museum of Whales You Will Never See. She has worked at various museums, including the Museum of Contemporary Photography, and the Chicago History Museum. Karen is currently Associate Editor of prose at the Southwest Review and a Fellow at Harvard University’s Library Innovation Lab. For more about Kendra, check out http://akendragreene.com.   Notable Links: Chicago Museum of Science and Industry (museum) Field Museum of Natural History (Chicago museum) La Brea Tar Pits (Los Angeles attraction) Icelandic Phallological Museum (penis museum) Museum of Jurassic Technology (Los Angeles museum) Cabinets of curiosities (pre-museum collections) Jack London (author) John Steinbeck (author) Nábrók (Icelandic necropants) Egil’s Saga (Icelandic saga) The Tourist, by Dean MacCannell (book) Elgin Marbles (Greek sculptures) Petra’s Stone Collection (museum) Museum of Sorcery and Witchcraft (museum) This episode of Deviate is brought to you by AirTreks, an industry leader in multi-stop international travel. Airtreks is a distributed travel company with employees working from all corners of the world to help with your flight planning, specializing in complex routes with up to 25 stops. The Airtreks website offers suggested pre-planned travel itineraries to help you get started, but can customize to fit your journey. This episode of Deviate is also brought to you by Tortuga Backpacks, which set the standard for the best, most durable, organized, and comfortable travel backpacks. Tortuga products also include daypacks, duffels, and other travel accessories, which are all made with the traveler in mind and have been featured by Wirecutter, The New York Times, Travel + Leisure, Business Insider, and many other industry outlets. The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber. Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.

“He gave us five rules for jumping freight trains, and we broke every one of those rules once the adventure began.” –Brian H In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his longtime friend Brian recall their old ambition to jump freight trains across the Pacific Northwest, and what factors inspired it (4:00); what kinds of research and preparation they did to make the train-jumping experience possible (16:30); the early hours of their attempt to reach Canada by catching a boxcar from the Vancouver, Washington rail yard, and the dangers of challenges that awaited them (28:30); their unanticipated detour through the Columbia Gorge to Pasco, and their experience of getting detained by railroad police in Spokane (35:00); making the decision to escape Spokane by retracing their route, and getting stuck in a “hobo jungle” in the town of Wishram (56:30); making sense of the adventure afterwards, and how train-jumping has (and has not) changed in the social-media age (1:15:30). Notable links: Van Life before #VanLife (Deviate episode) Jack Kerouac (American novelist) “Travel,” by Edna St. Vincent Millay (poem) The Autobiography of a Super-Tramp, W. H. Davies (1908 memoir) Chris McCandless (traveler, subject of Into the Wild) Hero’s journey (narrative template) Dr. Giggles (1992 horror movie Rolf appeared in as an extra) Emperor of the North Pole (1973 movie) Wishram, Washington (freight-depot town) Invisible Man, by Ralph Ellison (1952 novel) Rainbow Family (counterculture group) Freight-jumping links: Freight jumping (train-travel method) Burlington Northern (railroad company) Freight Train Riders of America (criminal gang) Boxcar Killer (serial killer, a.k.a. Robert Joseph Silveria Jr.) Boxcar (type of freight car) Covered hopper (type of freight car) Flatcar (type of freight car) Gondola (type of freight car) Stobe the Hobo (YouTube playlist) Remembering Stobe the Hobo (Facebook group) The Deviate theme music comes from the title track of Cedar Van Tassel’s 2017 album Lumber.  Note: We don’t host a “comments” section, but we’re happy to hear your questions and insights via email, at deviate@rolfpotts.com.