Future Commerce

The hunt for certainty is killing creativity.Rory Sutherland, chairman of Ogilvy and the poet of persuasion, joins us live from Klaviyo London to challenge marketing's obsession with thin-tailed attribution. Brands are facing an existential crisis in an increasingly brandless, chat-interface powered world, but Sutherland believes that current measurement models are not designed to allow marketers to test, fail, learn, and grow, systematically destroying breakthrough potential.Key takeaways:Technology evolves from option to obligation: Parking apps that liberated us from coin machines now trap those without smartphones, while McDonald's screen-only outlets eliminate human flexibilityMarketing is fat-tailed, business is not thin-tailed: "10% of what you do delivers 130% of the value, but you don't know what the 10% is in advance." But marketing’s current measurement system is designed for us to fail. Attribution models punish necessary failures and do not credit long-term breakthroughsInterface changes redistribute power overnight: When fundamental interaction modes shift from typing to voice and stores to apps, established advantages can disappear instantly, creating opportunities for complete market disruptionBrand value is multifarious, not monolithic: Fame, trust signals, and decision-making heuristics remain valuable even as chat interfaces challenge traditional brand expression. "People will come and find you rather than you having to find them." – Rory Sutherland[00:06:13] "Interface change is always disruptive, because if you change the interface within which people choose and act, you fundamentally change behavior." - Rory Sutherland[00:20:25] "There's a concern I always have about technology, which is the extent to which a lot of technology arrives as an option and ends up as an obligation." - Rory Sutherland[00:42:47] "There's a danger that what [AI is] doing is enshrining groupthink. It's taking groupthink and effectively engraving it." - Rory SutherlandLinks & In-Show Mentions:Learn more about OgilvyCheck out Future Commerce on YouTubeCheck out Future Commerce+ for exclusive content and save on merch and printSubscribe to Insiders and The Senses to read more about what we are witnessing in the commerce worldListen to our other episodes of Future CommerceHave any questions or comments about the show? Let us know on futurecommerce.com, or reach out to us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn. We love hearing from our listeners!

A replay from VISIONS Summit: NYC featuring YouTuber and architect Dami Lee.From the stage of VISIONS Summit at MoMA, Dami Lee reveals why the most chaotic spaces often teach us the most about what it means to be human. As a licensed architect turned YouTube storyteller with over 200 million views, she's discovered that making architecture approachable isn't about simplifying complexity, it's about finding the human stories embedded in our built environment. Through her exploration of places like Kowloon Walled City, Dami demonstrates how the most profound spaces emerge not from master plans but from organic human adaptation, creating connections and meaning through what philosophers call "rhizomic growth."When a Deeper Connection Is Better Than a Wider OneKey takeaways:Human framing trumps technical perfection: No matter how many hours spent making content beautiful or technically accurate, none of it matters without taking time to make it human and frame architecture from a human angle.Personal investment drives authentic storytelling: Topics perform best when team members have genuine personal connections to the subject matter, leading to deeper research and more compelling narratives.Rhizomic processes create unexpected connections: Non-linear, seemingly inefficient creative processes allow for serendipitous discoveries and cross-categorical insights that wouldn't emerge through structured approaches.Extremes ignite curiosity: Audiences gravitate toward architectural stories that push boundaries—like the world's densest city—because extremes reveal fundamental truths about human behavior and adaptation.Associated Links:Check out Dami Lee on YouTubeCheck out Future Commerce on YouTubeCheck out Future Commerce+ for exclusive content and save on merch and printSubscribe to Insiders and The Senses to read more about what we are witnessing in the commerce worldListen to our other episodes of Future CommerceHave any questions or comments about the show? Let us know on futurecommerce.com, or reach out to us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn. We love hearing from our listeners!

Get ad-free episodes and bonus content, including the full recording of this podcast, by joining Future Commerce+ at futurecommerce.com/plus🆕 Access to our newest analysis feature for members, Field Notes, our retail space analysis briefing. Featuring brands like Swatch, Printemps, and Skims. Access to our new Word of Mouth Index with Fairing, a brand new member benefitSave 15% on Future Commerce print journals and merchExclusive invites to physical events, dinners, and priority invites to industry events (SXSW, Art Basel, VISIONS)Ad-free episodes and bonus content!

How is the next generation redefining what it means to shop, connect, and co-create in physical spaces?Grab a pen and get ready to take some notes because Melissa Gonzalez and her firm, MG2 Advisory, have cracked the Gen-Z code through groundbreaking new research. But make no mistake, this isn’t more one-size-fits all data about a large, and highly nuanced, cohort. This is granular research that unpacks the social, behavioral, and psychological forces impacting how different Gen Z personas shop. This week, we’re learning how brands can leverage powerful tools that Gen Z is already wielding to level up their physical retail experiences: nostalgia, authenticity, sustainability, and co-creation. Listen now to get Melissa’s data-driven blueprint for designing meaningful brand experiences. Multiplayer This, Co-Creator ThatKey takeaways:Values vs. Value Tension: 94% of Gen Z shops with values in mind (authenticity, transparency, humility, sustainability), but economics still drive final decisionsCo-Creation Imperative: Three out of four Gen Z consumers want to be collaborators in the brand journey, extending beyond product customization to store design, layout, and programmingNostalgia as Currency: Y2K and 2000s aesthetics dominate Gen Z's desire for nostalgic comfort, with apparel and fashion brands leading the charge through vintage-inspired experiences and activationsTechnology Extends Instinct: Successful retail tech either reduces friction through operational efficiency or creates deeper immersion. Anything in between feels like novelty and lacks authenticity[00:09:15] "The reason why it doesn't always win their wallet share is because economics still matter. But if there's a great desire for it... if a brand or retailer can get it right and enable it, there's a big opportunity there because they're helping consumers live those aspirational values." – Melissa[00:14:59] "Three out of four... want to be co-creators and collaborators in the brand journey. Store design, product customization... but you don't see it often in store design, I think... there's a real opportunity because you're getting validation buy in." – Melissa[00:28:30] "You have to have a team... you have to always understand the zeitgeist and how generations are evolving... because it's not a one-size-fits-all answer that's going to remain static." – Melissa[00:38:36] "What about it is going to feel more ethereal and more immersive... What are you giving people? Why are they getting out of their house? Why are they getting out of their phone? Why do they feel like they have to engage with this physical experience?" – MelissaIn-Show Mentions:New 2025 Gen Z ResearchOur Upcoming Webinar with MG2 AdvisoryThe Pop-Up Paradigm bookRetail Refined podcastMG2 AdvisoryAssociated Links:Check out Future Commerce on YouTubeCheck out Future Commerce+ for exclusive content and save on merch and printSubscribe to Insiders and The Senses to read more about what we are witnessing in the commerce worldListen to our other episodes of Future CommerceHave any questions or comments about the show? Let us know on futurecommerce.com, or reach out to us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn. We love hearing from our listeners!

Get ad-free episodes and bonus content, including the full recording of this podcast, by joining Future Commerce+ at futurecommerce.com/plus🆕 Access to our newest analysis feature for members, Field Notes, our retail space analysis briefing. Featuring brands like Swatch, Printemps, and Skims. Access to our new Word of Mouth Index with Fairing, a brand new member benefitSave 15% on Future Commerce print journals and merchExclusive invites to physical events, dinners, and priority invites to industry events (SXSW, Art Basel, VISIONS)Ad-free episodes and bonus content!

Philip dials in from London to chat with “marketing mercenary” Michael Miraflor, who’s fresh off his eighth year at Cannes Lions. And after the LinkedIn Thought Leader Industrial Complex weighed in on this year’s event, he is ready to share some thoughts. In this episode, we dissect how the prestigious festival has fractured into three simultaneous conferences, each serving different masters in an industry grappling with AI anxiety, platform consolidation, and the eternal tension between craft and commercialism. Listen now if you’re also wondering, what does creativity even mean anymore?French Riviera Dreams vs. Silicon Valley AnxietyKey takeaways:Cannes Lions 2025 operated as three distinct conferences simultaneously, reflecting the industry's cultural fragmentation between traditional creativity, advertising channels and platforms, and bougie networking events.AI seemingly dominated every conversation, with industry professionals making dark jokes about replacement theory.Retail media networks and tech platforms have fundamentally altered the festival's ecosystem and vibe, creating productive tension between creative celebration and commercial necessity.Post-festival controversies surrounding AI usage highlight our industry's evolving discourse over the role of authenticity and efficiency in creative work.“If you took away all of the tech companies and platforms and big agencies from the beach, what would Cannes Lions be reduced to? I don't know if it would even make enough money to sustain still having that award ceremony in 2025." – Michael Miraflor"It was inevitable that every other conversation that you would have would become one about AI replacement theory to a certain extent. Or, you know, jokes about how this year feels like we're all on the Titanic." – Michael Miraflor"I find it interesting that a lot of the criticism comes from people who have jobs in creativity that I think are quite elite jobs. In my field, I feel like we're all quite lucky to be where we are…We can be critical, and I think my job has been to be critical... But I also think that we all have some element of privilege to be able to do that kind of work." – Phillip JacksonIn-Show Mentions:The Cannes Lions AI ControversiesMrBeast thumbnail app controversyAssociated Links:Check out Future Commerce on YouTubeCheck out Future Commerce+ for exclusive content and save on merch and printSubscribe to Insiders and The Senses to read more about what we are witnessing in the commerce worldListen to our other episodes of Future CommerceHave any questions or comments about the show? Let us know on futurecommerce.com, or reach out to us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn. We love hearing from our listeners!

This week, we revisit “The Uncorkening.” A spoken-word version of our Insiders essay of the same name, this episode is one of our most popular. In it, we question some of the factors that have led to the decline of DTC and how pent-up frustration with products that cost more without delivering on their promise will soon be a vestige of a bygone era. It’s been three years since the episode’s first airing, but the content still resonates. This could largely be attributed to many “digitally native darlings” still struggling to maintain their positioning in a crowded market. One possible exception could be Warby Parker, a brand that has successfully evolved into an omnichannel, omnipresent brand, effectively retaining the high product quality, service, and experience that many shoppers have come to love. When we discuss the struggles of DTC brands, what comes to mind for you?DTC Groupthink and Brand Criticism… Three Years LaterKey takeaways:“The Uncorkening” is a latent criticism that was stymied by the loudest voices in an ecosystem who didn’t feel that they had permission to speak up, has now been unleashedDTC models (particularly VC-backed IPO exits) have proven unsuccessful. The original promise was that DTC would remove middlemen and form a direct connection with the consumer; meanwhile, eCommerce is nothing but middlemen.  Many products don't live up to the hype. Another factor of The Uncorkening in DTC is that the loudest voices and advocates for DTC have often silenced criticism by playing a trump card—to critique a small brand is to criticize the founder behind the brand.The loudest DTC voices have quieted. As capital outcomes wither for those who had built their reputations on the examination of the DTC space, the loudest voices were silenced. Due in large part to The Great Resignation and the inaccessibility of capital in the current state of the markets, many of the most visible DTC acolytes have moved on to new projects or industries.What will The Uncorkening make us not want to buy next?In-Show Mentions:Nate Poulin’s tweet outlining 12 DTC IPOsImmi ratings and reviews (since this essay’s launch, Immi’s score has increased to 3.4) Associated Links:Check out Future Commerce on YouTubeCheck out Future Commerce+ for exclusive content and save on merch and printSubscribe to Insiders and The Senses to read more about what we are witnessing in the commerce worldListen to our other episodes of Future CommerceHave any questions or comments about the show? Let us know on futurecommerce.com, or reach out to us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn. We love hearing from our listeners!

Rachel Parker, Global Head of Customer Marketing at FDJ United, and Pini Yakuel, CEO of Optimove, dive into the concept of positionless marketing. Rachel shares insights from transforming her organization’s assembly-line model to a more flexible approach, enhancing team morale and customer engagement. They discuss how AI speeds up processes and the importance of evolving team roles to expand capabilities. The duo emphasizes the need for internal communication and visionary leadership in navigating this bold shift, aiming to free marketers and optimize performance.

Join a fascinating journey through time capsules as we explore how culture and commerce intertwine. Discover why brands might be the only survivors of civilization in the next five thousand years. Unpack the significance of an image from the Voyager Golden Record that captures humanity's shift from agriculture to consumerism. Delve into the psychology behind our buying habits and how they shape our identities. This thought-provoking discussion invites us to reflect on the cultural permanence of brands in a rapidly evolving world.

In this discussion, Justin Breton, Head of Brand Marketing at Walmart, shares insights on their innovative journey into immersive digital experiences. He emphasizes how Walmart Realm redefines online shopping, focusing on discovery rather than conversion. Avoiding the buzzword 'metaverse,' he discusses Walmart's embrace of familiarity in digital interactions. Breton highlights collaborations with creators, including partnerships with Drew Barrymore and Netflix, which enhance consumer engagement through immersive, community-driven experiences.