Saved by the City

It all started innocently enough: with evangelistic aerobics.As many famous Christians do, Beth Moore entered ministry with a simple desire: to teach people about Jesus. In the 1980s, that meant choreographing aerobics routines to Contemporary Christian Music. (Think Jazzercise for Jesus.) It also meant teaching a women’s Bible study class at church that quickly mushroomed in size. Soon, Beth was speaking at churches across the country, publishing several best-selling Bible studies, and starting her own ministry, Living Proof.Many leaders would envy this kind of ascendant reach. As it turns out, Beth wouldn’t wish superstardom on anyone. As she told Katelyn and Roxy in this week’s episode, she doesn’t think anyone can thrive under an intense spotlight; they can only hope to survive it.Beth has indeed survived it, using her platform since 2016 to speak up on behalf of women and people of color who have been hurt and marginalized in the evangelical church. Her public advocacy has received scrutiny from SBC leaders and online gadflies, but Beth is surviving because of the support of her family, plus simple joys like using her cast-iron skillet, visiting her neighbor’s donkey, and making batches of jelly.GUESTS:Beth Moore is the founder of Living Proof Ministries and the author of several Bible studies and books, including the forthcoming memoir All My Knotted-Up Life.Listeners of Saved by the City get 40 percent off of Katelyn’s new book, Celebrities for Jesus, when they head over to Baker Book House. No code required and free shipping! Learn more here.

American Idol: Worship Leader Edition.In the past two decades, worship music has dominated the Christian music charts, bringing churches like Hillsong into the evangelical mainstream and making millions through licensing and sold-out concerts. Worshipers come seeking a profound encounter with God and an ecstatic experience. That is often true for the performers as well.But when ministry, commerce, and relationships are blended, it can be hard for industry insiders to stay true to their craft – and to themselves. Such is the case for recording artist William Matthews, who wrote and recorded songs with Bethel Church, a large, influential charismatic congregation in Redding, California. William joined Katelyn and Roxy to discuss life in the performer spotlight, the physical, mental, and spiritual toll it takes, and what happens when you can no longer support the version of Christianity being taught from the stage.GUESTS:William Matthews is a singer songwriter and recording artist who currently serves as music director of New Abbey Church in LA. Learn more at his Spotify page.Listeners of Saved by the City get 40 percent off of Katelyn’s new book, Celebrities for Jesus, when they head over to Baker Book House. No code required and free shipping! Learn more here.

Is there any hope for toxic celebrity pastors?Stories abound of pastors who started to believe their own hype – and ended up capsizing their church and hurting a lot of people. There are spiritual and relational costs to putting leaders on pedestals.But celebrity dynamics also are bad for pastors themselves. Many find themselves “alone at the top,” without real friendship and accountability, which can foster various addictions and abuses. In the second episode of our summer series, Roxy and Katelyn are joined by spiritual formation expert Chuck DeGroat, who has counseled hundreds of pastors in crisis. Chuck explains what happens when leaders are put in the spotlight too young or for the wrong reasons, how narcissistic tendencies show up in the pastorate, the deployment of cheap grace, and how ministry leaders can start the inner work to heal – if they are willing.GUEST:Chuck DeGroat is professor of pastoral care and spirituality at Western Theological Seminary and author most recently of When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community from Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Learn more at ChuckDeGroat.net.Listeners of Saved by the City get 40 percent off of Katelyn’s new book, Celebrities for Jesus, when they head over to Baker Book House. No code required and free shipping! Learn more here.

On booty photos followed by Bible verses…It’s never been easier for women with massive talent to share their work and build a community around it. Social media have democratized the work of teaching and preaching. Instagram, with its aesthetic, aspirational vibes, has proven to be the most popular social media platform for Christian women influencers.In the first episode of a four-part summer series on celebrity in the church (also the topic of Katelyn’s new book), Roxy and Katelyn are joined by author Hannah Anderson to chat about the platform that’s equally fun and frustrating. Anderson helps unpack the unspoken rules that Christian women must follow to wield authority online. We’re tempted to roll our eyes at some of the rules (such as the ubiquity of beachy waves), but there’s a lot more at play: what Hannah Anderson calls women’s ‘superpower’ in building communities of women for good causes.GUESTS:Hannah Anderson is author of several books on spirituality, including the most recent All That’s Good: Recovering the Lost Art of Discernment. She is cohost of the Persuasion podcast, a great “thought leader” Twitter follow, and lives with her family in the Blue Ridge Mountains.Listeners of Saved by the City get 40 percent off of Katelyn’s new book, Celebrities for Jesus, when they head over to Baker Book House. No code required and free shipping! Learn more here.

Because we all need to eat.On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore the role of the dinner party in family, friendship and the resistance. Sure, fixing food can be tedious and eating it entirely unglamorous but good food and good drink can also be a spark — a spark for creativity, for reflection, for the best kinds of rich conversation. We are joined by film critic, author and dinner host extraordinaire Alissa Wilkinson for lessons on eating well and living loud. GUEST: Alissa Wilkinson is a film, culture and food writer. She is the senior culture reporter at Vox.com, as well as an associate professor at The King's College. She is the author of the new book "Salty: Lessons on eating, drinking and living from revolutionary women."

We are one week away from the Southern Baptist Convention's annual meeting and it promises to be an interesting time.Aside from another contentious presidential election, the nation's largest Protestant denomination must also reckon with the explosive findings from a sweeping sex abuse investigation. On this week's episode, Roxy is joined by her good friend and a son of the Southern Baptists, Jonathan Merritt. The two discuss their own SBC upbringings and how it feels to watch your childhood denomination go so off the rails. They are also joined by SBC insider Ben Cole, who gives a preview of what to expect next week in Anaheim.GUESTS: Jonathan Merritt is one of America's most trusted and popular writers on religion, culture, and politics. He is an award-winning contributor for The Atlantic, a contributing editor and monthly columnist for Religion News Service. He is author of several critically-acclaimed books including "Learning to Speak God from Scratch: Why Sacred Words are Vanishing - and How We Can Revive Them." Benjamin Cole is the founder of Longview Strategies consulting firm. On Twitter, he’s @BaptistBlogger, where he has a lively feed.  

At the end of 2021, the NY Police Department reported a 361 percent increase in anti-Asian hate crimes since the year prior.New York City is the first place we've lived among so many Asian American neighbors — and the place we've been introduced to the rich diversity of the Asian American experience. Yet, it's also been the place that's opened our eyes to the violence, harmful stereotypes and erasure our AAPI neighbors face. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy talk with Nikki Toyama-Szeto about how she's learned to lead authentically from both her race and gender — finding the gifts God has given her through both. She also shares some of her family's story as survivors of the Japanese internment camps in the U.S. during World War II.GUEST: Nikki Toyama-Szeto is the executive director at Christians for Social Action, the author of God of Justice and host of the 20 Minute Takes podcast.

Recycle. Upcycle. Bicycle. Look, most of us really want to be good, ethical people. We want to make the world a better place. We want our clothes to be sustainably made by people receiving fair wages. We don't want the ocean to be full of plastic islands. And we'd rather chickens roamed free of cages.But the complexities of our modern, globalized world make being a good person more difficult than ever. Honestly, it can feel overwhelming! And discouraging! Katelyn and Roxy talk with Sandra Maria Van Opstal, a longtime activist dedicated to disrupting oppressive systems, about how to pursue a lifestyle of justice without losing your sanity. Plus: A round of 'Do-Gooder Jeopardy'GUEST Sandra Maria Van Opstal is a second-generation Latina pastor, activist and author and the executive director of Chasing Justice, a BIPOC-led movement that mobilizes Christians to live justly. Sandra is the author of The Next Worship, as well as contributor to the New York Times bestselling book A Rhythm of Prayer.

Over the weekend, news broke of another mass shooting, this time in Buffalo, New York. The shooting took place at a grocery store in a predominantly Black neighborhood. 10 people were killed and three others injured. The 18 year old gunman had a racial slur written on the barrel of his gun and livestreamed the shootings. Later, his 180 page manifesto was discovered, which was filled with white supremacist conspiracy theories.Just the day before, we had sat down with historian Jemar Tisby to discuss the hysteria over critical race theory and why racial progress always incites backlash.These are not unrelated events. And in the wake of another white supremacist terrorist attack, we believe it is unconscionable to continue to claim that critical race theory is the real danger in our country and churches.At a time when reports of racially motivated hate crimes are on the rise, we want to ask: why are so many Americans concerned about CRT? And what is the role and responsibility of white Christians in this moment?GUEST: Jemar Tisby is a public historian and the author of a number of books, including the acclaimed, "The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the American Church’s Complicity in Racism." You can also sign up for his newsletter at: jemartisby.substack.com

[acf field="sbtc-embed"][acf field="podcast-link-buttons"]Lift your hands up to the sky.Whether "Shout to the Lord," gives you nostalgic warm fuzzies or sends a chill up your spine, if you've ever owned a WOW CD, this episode is for you. For many who grew up in evangelical spaces, the music was as defining as any sermon or youth group Bible study. There was the worship music on Sundays, the Christian ska for Friday nights and, if you like REM, maybe check out Newsboys?Katelyn and Roxy grew up in, we'd argue, the glory days of CCM (Contemporary Christian Music), but our relationship to that particular music of our youth is, well, complicated. We talk with theologian and CCM guru, Leah Payne, about the evolving industry and how worship music became big business. We're also joined by pastor and songwriter David Gungor to explore the formative power of worship liturgies.GUESTS: Leah Payne is a theology professor at Portland Seminary, cohost of the Weird Religion podcast, and author of a forthcoming book on the history of CCM. David Gungor is the worship pastor at Good Shepherd New York. He is part of the band The Brilliance and helped found The Good Shepherd Collective. This episode features the song “I Hear Silence” from the Good Shepherd Collective. Find their albums wherever you listen to your music.