It's the motherlode episode.

Most women of a certain age (our age) have kids. They just do. And we don't. Living in that reality can be complicated — it's fun to be an "auntie," but it's not the same as being a mom — there's grief and there's gain. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy grapple with their own winding paths to life without kids. We share what's it's meant to mourn that loss while finding ways to embrace the gifts of a childfree life.

We're joined by Erin S. Lane who helps us challenge the default scripts of motherhood that society — and churches! — so often impose on women's lives.

GUEST:

• Erin S. Lane is a writer, theologian, and author of "Someone Other Than a Mother." She has a masters in gender studies from Duke Divinity School and works as a vocational retreat facilitator.