Saved by the City

Have you ever found yourself mid-doomscroll, suddenly enthralled by a beautiful woman baking a pie and arranging an armful of flowers freshly picked from her garden, while in the background her children play with adorable wooden toys on a natural fiber rug? You have stumbled into the trad-wife corner of the internet. Welcome. The bread is fresh and the grass is definitely greener (it's natural fertilizer). On this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy give you a tour of the trad wife phenemonon, it's various forms (from supermodels to crunchy granola types to the MAGA evangelists), and what in the Martha Stewart is going on with Ballerina Farm? They also talk with Kelsey Kramer McGinnis about why trad wives have found their moment and what the appeal is — because let's be honest, there is some appeal (even if you're just hate watching the posts). GUEST: Kelsey Kramer McGinnis is a writer, musicologist and educator who holds a PhD from the University of Iowa. She is a regular contributor to Christianity Today and the coauthor of the forthcoming book "The Myth of Christian Parenting: How False Promises Betrayed a Generation of Evangelical Families."

You don't want to be THAT tourist. We all need a vacation and many of us are seeking more than rest or fun on our next getaway. Pilgrimages, retreats, wellness centers — an industry has grown up around the desire to to find transcendence — or at least a bit of mindfulness — while escaping real life. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore the cringe factors inherent in spiritual tourism — selfies in temples anyone? — and the true rewards that sacred travel can offer. We are joined by travel writer and spiritual seeker, Pico Iyer, who has turned his curiosity about the world's religions into a lifetime of finding grace in far-flung sacred spaces. GUEST: Pico Iyer is an essayist and author, perhaps best known for his travel writing. He has written 15 books and appeared in the pages of Time, The New York Times, Harper’s Magazine, the Los Angeles Times, among many others. His most recent book "Aflame: Learning from Silence," recounts his many visits to The New Camaldoli Hermitage in Big Sur, California.

It's 2025, and the vibes feel a bit...off. It's been nearly five years since the murder of George Floyd and the national and global protests it sparked. Since then, we've seen local efforts to stop public schools from teaching about racism in America; withdrawal of federal funding for DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) programs; and a broad attitude shift against various progressive causes. How do white Americans, especially white women, stay engaged in the work of racial justice when the headlines have moved on and when 'woke' is considered weak? This week, Katelyn and Roxy speak with Latasha Morrison, founder of Be the Bridge, on pursuing justice for the long haul and what gives her hope amid our anti-DEI moment. We also hear from a longtime Be the Bridge participant, Margo Yoder, on why relationships and proximity to real people matter more than social media posting. GUEST: Latasha Morrison is the founder of Be the Bridge, a nonprofit that promotes racial reconciliation and education, and author of the bestselling book Be the Bridge as well as the 2024 follow-up, Brown Faces, White Spaces: Confronting Systemic Racism to Bring Healing and Restoration.

Pope Francis was a man of the people. Will the next pope be?After 12 years as the head of the Catholic church — and the most famous Christian in the world — Pope Francis died on Monday (April 21) at 88. A charismatic reformer, the first Latin American pope and the first Jesuit pope, Francis was beloved well beyond the Catholic church. As world leaders, Catholic faithful and cardinals from around the globe travel to the Vatican this week to mourn Francis, talk of his successor has also begun. The Conclave — made all the more intriguing to many by the recent Oscar nominated movie of the same name — will take place in the coming days and the lists of "papabile," or favored successors, are already rolling in. Katelyn and Roxy are joined by Claire Giangravé, RNS's voice of the Vatican, for a reflection on Francis's legacy and a sneak preview of the Vatican drama to come.GUEST:Claire Giangravé is a Rome-based reporter for RNS, covering the Catholic Church and the Vatican.

Brian Zahnd, founder and lead pastor of Word of Life Church, dives into the complexities of atonement theories, particularly penal substitutionary atonement. He discusses the ongoing debate about the meaning of Jesus' death and resurrection, urging listeners to reconsider traditional views. The conversation explores various interpretations, including the emphasis on God's love and the significance of storytelling in faith. Zahnd encourages a deeper engagement with Easter traditions and highlights the importance of sacramental participation in Christianity.

Chappell Roan says all her friends with kids are in hell. A popular subreddit asks "does anyone else just… not like kids?" A crowd of the usual suspects — pro-natalists, theo bros and mom influencers — pounce on these examples to decry our increasingly "anti-kid" and "childless cat lady" culture. Is this just a recycled generational debate — feminists vs homemakers but this time on TikTok — or is there something new going on here? Are some women (and men too, though maybe to less pearl clutching) just saying the quiet part out loud? That parenthood is really hard and changes your life, not always in super positive ways. That kids can be difficult to handle in public places. Or is this a true shift in public thinking — toward a less kid inclusive world? Katelyn and Roxy explore these questions and look at the evidence (data dump, anyone?), as we also ask: What role do children play in the Church and in Christian life?

Did you know there are piles of guidebooks meant to help women excel at being the church's first lady? From how to step out of a car when pulling up to church on Sunday, to preparing the perfect casserole, to keeping the kids smiling and still in the front pew. And those dirty dishes in the sink? They could be the talk of the lady's luncheon if you're not careful. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy dig into the pile of expectations put on pastor's wives — and the idea that his ministry must be her ministry.As a woman newly wed to a priest, Roxy wonders what those expectations mean for her — and which parts of this role to lean into and which to resist. And Katelyn ... well, Katelyn has some new reasons to care too (listen to find out!). We talk with historian Beth Allison Barr about why the role of pastor's wife has evolved in many denominations to be the primary path of ministry for some women.Plus: The Millennial Girl Boss's Guide to Being the Pastor's Wife (as cringe as you'd expect!)GUEST: Beth Allison Barr is the James Vardaman Professor of History at Baylor University. She is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, "Becoming the Pastor’s Wife: How Marriage Replaced Ordination as a Woman’s Path to Ministry," as well as, "The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth." She is a pastor’s wife and mom.

What’s the woo-iest thing you believe in? Angels and demons? Ghosts? Astrology? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy dabble in the metaphysical and get curious about the mystical. We also wonder if maybe we’ve gotten a little too skeptical of the spiritual? Enter our guest today: New York Times columnist, UFO enthusiast and religion apologist, Ross Douthat. We discuss the allure of the supernatural, the dangers of syncretism and why religion is the rational choice.

Katelyn and Roxy both moved to New York City with a dream of starting fresh and the promise of a new life with new adventures, new friends and new romance. And, to be honest, New York delivered on pretty much all of that. It's a great city! But it's not the only city — and moving here cost us too. Money, yes, but also stability and roots and proximity to long-time friends. We've both moved from city to city over the years, and we've gained gifts in each but we've also come to realize that age-old truth: wherever you go, there you are. On this episode, we explore the benefits of staying put and putting down roots — even as we celebrate our nomadic adventures. We are joined by Methodist minister and author Lydia Sohn who helps us see the spiritual roots of making home.GUEST: Lydia Sohn is a minister and a writer, currently serving as the senior pastor of Walnut United Methodist Church and the author of "Here: A Spirituality of Staying in a Culture of Leaving."

Were you more of a truth person or a dare person? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy revisit some of the Capital T-truths of their youth group days and dare to say "maybe I don't believe that anymore." From hell to dinosaurs to midnight demons, we go there. And we're joined by Erin Hicks Moon, who isn’t afraid to ask the big, thorny questions about modern faith. Questions like: What if this whole Christian thing is just a man-made system used to control people? Why does it feel like so many Christians have lost their ding-dang minds? And, when is the Mexican Pizza coming back on the Taco Bell menu?Chapter Markers0:00 - Do You Know Where You’re Going? (And Why We All Panicked)3:10 - Truth or Dare: Evangelical Edition7:00 - What’s the Most Embarrassing Dare You’ve Done?9:49 - Asking Big Questions: What If None of This Is Real?12:47 - The Fear of Hell & Writing to Brio Magazine15:57 - Rapture Trauma: The Ultimate Sleep Paralysis Demon18:00 - The Bible, Dinosaurs, and Why We Were That Kid at Church Camp22:17 - If God Is Good, Why Is the World So Messed Up?26:39 - Evangelicals and the Fear of Questioning Faith30:34 - Erin Moon Joins to Talk About I've Got Questions36:12 - Why Have So Many Christians Lost Their Minds?40:47 - The Biggest Shift in Faith Since Our Youth Group Days46:17 - What If Asking Questions Breaks Your Faith?50:55 - Where to Go When You Don’t Know What You Believe54:42 - Most Googled Questions of All Time (And Our Best Guesses)55:47 - Outro & What’s Coming Next👉 Subscribe for more bold conversations on faith, doubt, and the lives we build.Instagram, TikTok, YouTube: @savedbythecity