The Human Risk Podcast

How can we implement Behavioural Science in larger organisations? On this episode, I’m doing a deep dive into practical Behavioural Science with three practitioners from across the globe, who talk about some of the projects they’ve been working on. 
My guests are all from Ogilvy Consulting, a leading Behavioural Science practice and each work in different regions.Heather Watson heads up Ogilvy’s North American BeSci team from Austin, Texas, Dan Bennett is responsible for the UK and is based in London and Paolo Mercado is in Manila.To connect or learn more about them:Heather - https://www.linkedin.com/in/heathernwatson/Dan - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thebestdanielbennett/Paolo - https://www.linkedin.com/in/paolo-mercado-0a4a8a17/The idea behind the episode is to illustrate the breadth of challenges to which Behavioural Science can be put to use. You’ll hear about improving customer experience, protecting people who work in safety-critical industries by helping them to change their behaviour to be more compliant with safety protocols and how Behavioural Science can help improve sales of consumer products. We also explore some of the challenges of deploying Behavioural Science in larger organisations – the obstacles, both practical and political – and the fact that we can sometimes end up proposing counter-intuitive or unorthodox solutions, which work brilliantly but can defy the logic by which normal corporate decisions are made. But that’s the whole point. Behavioural Science allows us to come up with effective solutions to common business problems, that can’t easily be solved by traditional thinking.It’s also an opportunity for us to preview Nudgestock, Ogilvy's annual festival of behavioural science and creativity and get some clues about what you can expect.You can find out more about Nudgestock at www.nudgestock.com To be notified when new episodes of the show are available subscribe to the podcast newsletter: https://www.getrevue.co/profile/humanriskIf you enjoy this episode, you can find my discussions with other members of the Ogilvy BeSci team:Maddie Croucher who talked to me about how BeSci can help fundraising: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/maddie-croucher-on-behavioural-science-for-fundraising/Sam Tatam introduced his book ‘Evolutionary Ideas’ on how Mother Nature can inspire BeSci solutions https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/sam-tatam-on-evolutionary-ideas/Benoit de Fleurian explained how BeSci is helping to reduce anti-social behaviour https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/benoit-de-fleurian-on-preventing/And, last but definitively not least, Rory Sutherland talked about Compliance https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/

How can we travel adventurously while still being sustainable? I’m a huge fan of exploring, but I’m also very conscious of my environmental footprint. On this episode, I’m speaking to Sustainable Adventurer Wiebe Wakker. He’s a Dutchman who likes exploring the world in an environmentally friendly ways.Wiebe came to my attention earlier this year when we went from Amsterdam to Dubai by train for an environmental conference. That wasn’t his first adventure. He’d previously spent 3.5 years travelling from The Netherlands to New Zealand by electric car. That journey means that Wiebe holds the current world record for completing the longest ever electric car trip in the world covering a distance of about 95,000 kilometres.In our discussion, we explore what inspires Wiebe to undertake his adventures, what he’s learned from doing it and I explain how he’s influenced me.To find out more about Wiebe, visit his website: https://plugmeinproject.com/You’ll find him on social media:Twitter - https://twitter.com/wiebewkkr?lang=enInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/plugmeintravel/?hl=enLinkedIn - https://nl.linkedin.com/in/wiebewakkerDuring our discussion, we talk about:Seat61.com - an amazing website for planning train adventures

How can charities use Behavioural Science to be more effective at fundraising? It’s a question a number of listeners have asked me to explore; either because they work for charities or because they want to help their favourite causes to raise more money. Even if neither of those things apply, what we can learn from how charities can be better at raising funds, is relevant in other contexts.My guest on this episode is Maddie Croucher, a behavioural science practitioner who specialises in interventions to support social impact work. Maddie has boosted fundraising income for Christian Aid, helped improve donor retention for DKMS - an international nonprofit bone marrow donor centre - and developed interventions to tackle malnutrition with The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. She’s also the co-author of a book called Change for Better that provides practical help for fundraisers.In our discussion, we talk about:Change For Better, the book Maddie co-authored - https://www.dsc.org.uk/publication/change-for-better/It's also available on Kindle - https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Change-Better-Bernard-Ross-ebook/dp/B09X5SDBKV/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1UVA9QO1BGHFU&keywords=Change+for+better&qid=1650660657&sprefix=change+for+better%2Caps%2C68&sr=8-1The Jam Experiment — an experiment that highlighted how Choice Overload (having too many options) can make it harder for people to decide, so they often don’t bother. https://medium.com/@FlorentGeerts/the-jam-experiment-how-choice-overloads-makes-consumers-buy-less-d610f8c37b9bCharity Water - a charity that seeks to address the fact that 771 million people lack basic access to clean and safe drinking water. https://www.charitywater.org/Wikipedia’s annual fundraising - https://medium.com/@chriskfundraising/why-doesnt-social-proof-work-for-wikipedia-fundraising-65d55a047911The Pillion Trust’s ‘Fuck The Poor’ campaign - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rElgYNemi1AGift Aid, the UK scheme that allows taxpayers to increase teh size of tier charitable donations by reclaiming tax - https://www.cafonline.org/my-personal-giving/plan-your-giving/individual-giving-account/how-does-it-work/gift-aidNudgestock, Ogilvy’s Annual Behavioural Science Festival which this year is on June 10th - https://nudgestock.com/The Ogilvy 2022 Behavioural Science Annual Report - https://www.ogilvy.com/ideas/behavioral-science-annual-2022You can follow Maddie on Twitter - https://twitter.com/maddie_croucherTo be notified whenever a new episode of the show comes out, subscribe to the Human Risk podcast newsletter - https://bit.ly/3skhz1Q

What does behaviour have to do with procurement? On the face of it, not much. But as my guest on this episode David Loseby explains, behind every procurement and supply chain operation, there are human beings involved in the design and management of the processes. In other words, they’re areas that present huge opportunities for human risk to manifest itself. As David, who specialises in helping companies to manage the behavioural dynamics behind operational decisions, explains, there are trade-offs that need to be made. Just in time processes can deliver lower costs by reducing the need to warehouse stock and tie up working capital. But, as we saw under COVID, they’re also extremely vulnerable when things don’t go according to plan.If we ignore human decision-making and what can be done to mitigate the risks it poses. It’s also worth remembering that if companies have a procurement function, it means that the amount of money they’re spending on procurement activities is large enough to justify the function's existence. Which is great if they get things right. But not so good when they get things wrong. David has over 25 years of experience at a senior executive/director level driving value and change through procurement and organisational transformation.His varied background enables him to draw on not only his various global experiences, sector diversity and responsibilities within many Public Bodies as well as FTSE 100 companies. 
During our discussion, we talk about- David’s background & research: https://research-portal.uea.ac.uk/en/persons/david-loseby
- David’s book Soft Skills for Hard Business: https://www.cambridgeacademic.com/product/soft-skills-for-hard-business
- The VUCA framework short for volatility, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volatility,_uncertainty,_complexity_and_ambiguity- The COM-B model of behaviour change https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/organizational-behavior/the-com-b-model-for-behavior-change- The Tanker driver who was followed by a line of drivers, who discovered that he wasn’t carrying fuel: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-58767230
You can get hold of David via his LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-loseby-cpochangeexecdir/To be notified of new episodes of the show, subscribe to the Human Risk podcast newsletter: https://www.getrevue.co/profile/humanrisk

What makes a good leader? When we think of leaders, we often imagine lone, inspirational figures lauded for their behaviours, attributes, and personal decisions. However, leaders also have an impact on the way people around them make decisions. My guest on this episode is Professor Don Moore. Don is the Lorraine Tyson Mitchell Chair in Leadership and Communication at Berkeley Haas and serves as Associate Dean for Academic Affairs.Don is the co-author of a book with Professor Max Bazerman called Decision Leadership: Empowering others to make better choices, that explores the idea of organisations in the 21st century as decision factories in which effective effective leaders are decision architects, enabling those around them to make wise, ethical choices consistent with their own interests and the organization’s highest values. As a result, a leader’s impact grows because it ripples out instead of relying on one individual to play the part of heroic figure.
To find out more about Don: https://haas.berkeley.edu/faculty/moore-don/
To learn more about Decision Leadership: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300259698/decision-leadership/To hear Don’s previous appearance on the show:https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-don-moore-on-confidence/To hear the previous episode of the show with Wendy Lambourne on Legitimate Leadership: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/wendy-lambourne-on-legitimate-leadership/

What distinguishes a good leader from a bad one? My guest on this episode, Wendy Lambourne is a proponent of Legitimate Leadership — the idea that to have real power, leaders need to have legitimacy. Not by dint of being appointed, but by the way in which they fulfil their role.She believes that leaders stand or fall at the end of the day on the basis of their intent, or motive. Or to put it another way, whether they’re in the relationship to give to their people, or to get something out of them.Since leadership is all about people leading other people, there’s lots of potential for human risk.In our discussion we explore:- how Wendy came to discover the idea of Legitkamte Leadership (LL);- what LL means in practice;- how leaders can manifest it;- the difference between authority and power;- what the implications are for businesses of adopting LL; and- what Wendy has learned from teaching the framework to others.To learn more about Legitimate Leadership see https://legitimateleadership.com/To buy Wendy’s book: https://www.amazon.com/Wendy-Lambourne/e/B00CASM2C4?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_5&qid=1614152045&sr=8-5

When we need to solve problems, we often think we need to develop new ideas. But what if that were wrong?On this episode, I’m joined by Behavioural Science practitioner Sam Tatam whose new book Evolutionary Ideas shows how behavioural science and evolutionary psychology can help us solve tomorrow’s challenges. Not by divining something the world has never seen, but by borrowing from yesterday’s solutions – often in the most unexpected ways.Sam is Global Head of Behavioural Science at Ogilvy. His passion is understanding human behaviour, and his experience comes from organisational/industrial psychology and advertising strategy.From New York to Nairobi, Sam has led behaviour change projects across virtually every category and continent. Today, he leads a global team of talented psychologists and behavioural economists to develop interventions and shape the communications of some of the world's most influential brands and organisations.Links to some of the things we discussed on the episode:
To learn more about Sam’s book ‘Evolutionary Ideas’ which will be published in May 2022 - www.harriman-house.com/evolutionaryideasTo buy the book - https://linktr.ee/evolutionaryideasTo watch Sam’s presentation at Nudgestock 2021 about Evolutionary Ideas - https://youtu.be/7q6rfcRWf08A presentation on Biomimicry at Nudgestock 2018 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TTpgEwgUS4An introduction to TRIZ, a Theory of Inventive Problem Solving - https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newCT_92.htmAn explanation for Sam's reference to singer Ronan Keating - https://youtu.be/IobNcpiwpScTo hear Ogilvy Vice Chairman (the founder of the team Sam leads) Rory Sutherland’s appearances on this show:Rory on Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/Rory & Gerald Ashley on Networks - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley/Rory & Gerald on Prosilience - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/

How do we measure the effectiveness of Compliance programs? It sounds like a simple question, but it is actually hard to answer. And it's not just a challenge facing Compliance Officers.If you work in Ethics, Risk or even as a Regulator, you'll recognise the dynamic. You've probably either been asked to demonstrate the effectiveness of your program or had questions asked about your budget or resources. And usually, that's not because they want to give you more.It's equally possible that you might have wondered how good a job you're doing. I know I did when working as a Regulator and as a Compliance Officer.Now, whatever the reason for the question, it's not an easy one to answer. Because part of it involves proving a negative, you can easily show that you've helped make good things happen, but it's much harder to demonstrate that you've stopped bad things. This is why we often turn to input metrics like 'number of hours of training delivered' or the number of times we executed a particular control. That's interesting, but it doesn't tell you how effective the outcome is. Or isn't. Just because someone has been on a course, and done a little exam, doesn't mean the risk the training is designed to mitigate has been reduced. So how can we best do that? That's what my two guests on this episode were interested in. One of them, Professor Benjamin Van Rooij, has been on the show four times — links to his previous appearances are below. The other, Professor Melissa Rorie, is making her debut. Together, they've edited a book called Measuring Compliance: Assessing Corporate Crime and Misconduct Prevention which contains chapters written by several eminent experts. Contributors to the book Todd Haugh, Ricardo Pelafone & Florentin Blanc have also previously been guests on the show. There are links to those episodes below.If you work in a function whose role is to mitigate Human Risk, feel free to substitute the word Compliance for whatever you're responsible for ——–— because it's still relevant — then what Melissa and Benjamin have to say will be of interest. Because if you don't know how to measure the success of what you do, then there's even less chance that anyone else — say someone who sets your budget, someone who is trying to assess the quality of your program or someone who determines your compensation — will be able to.To find out more about the book: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/measuring-compliance/5C1378AB4F9814D0C41198AEF9A5B6D2For more on Melissa & her research: https://www.unlv.edu/people/melissa-rorie-phdFor more on Benjamin & his research:https://www.uva.nl/en/profile/r/o/b.vanrooij/b.vanrooij.htmlIn our discussion, we talk about:Hui Chen & her work at the DOJ: https://huichenethics.com/about/Ricardo Pellafone & his work at Broadcat: https://www.thebroadcat.com/ricardo-pellafoneFlorentin Blanc & his work at the OECD: https://oecd-events.org/digital-security-for-prosperity/speaker/f46fd492-79c3-eb11-94b3-000d3a219024Rita Faria's book (co-authored with Olga Petintseva & Yarin Eski) called Interviewing Elites, Experts and the Powerful in Criminology https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-33000-2The research on signing at the top of documents to encourage honesty https://www.wired.com/2012/08/signature-honesty/ & the recent findings that it failed to replicate: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1911695117The story of Abraham Wald: https://www.rigb.org/explore-science/explore/blog/how-not-be-wrong#:Professor JS Nelson on Workplace Surveillance https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3504408Previous episodes featuring contributors to the bookBenjamin Van Rooij on COVID Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-1/ Benjamin on The Behavioural Code - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on/Benajmiong & Dany Sokol on Compliance 2.0 - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professors-benjamin-van-rooij/Ricardo Pellafone on Behavioural Design in Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ricardo-pellafone-on-why-compliance/Ricardo Pellafone on the challenges facing Risk & Compliance under COVID - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ricardo-pellafone-on-the-challenges/Florentin Blanc on Regulatory Responses to COVID 19https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/florentin-blanc-on-regulatory-responses/Dr Todd Haugh on Behavioural Aspects of Ethics & Compliance https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-todd-haugh-on-the/

Ever had a terrible customer experience? Of course, you have. They’re very common. But why? My guest Michael Bartlett has just written a book on the dark side of customer experience - in other words, the processes that companies engage in that irritate the hell out of us. The purpose of Michael’s book isn’t — you’ll be pleased to hear – to help companies make their processes more irritating. Rather it's to help them identify when they might inadvertently do things that will turn otherwise loyal customers into people haters. Not only does he shine a light on practices that make this happen, but he also proposes some solutions for how to avoid them happening in the first place.Even if you’re not in the business of managing frontline customer services, what Michael highlights is of interest, because it can help you to understand why certain things are really irritating. And, if you work in a function like Compliance, Ethics, Information Security or HR that designs processes for employees, then what applies in a customer service context, also applies in your world. You can connect with Michael here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbartlettccxp/You’ll find Michael’s book The Dark Side of CX here: https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-CX-patterns-customers-ebook/dp/B09T2B9LR9In our discussion, we explore:The ADKAR change management model https://www.knowledgetrain.co.uk/change-management/change-management-courses/change-management-models/adkarJeanne Bliss on Chief Customer Officer 2.0m - https://www.wiley.com/en-gb/Chief+Customer+Officer+2+0%3A+How+to+Build+Your+Customer+Driven+Growth+Engine-p-9781119047643Joe Wheeler on Managing the Customer Experience: Turning Customers Into Advocates: https://www.pearson.com/uk/educators/higher-education-educators/program/Smith-Managing-the-Customer-Experience-Turning-customers-into-advocates/PGM571623.htmTo hear the podcast episodes I mention featuring:(i) Roger Dooley on Friction - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-roger-dooley-on-friction/(ii) Professor Camilla Andersen on Comic Book Contracts - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-camilla-andersen-on-comicbook-contracts/

Why might an innocuous-sounding word we all use, result in a social injustice? The answer is: when that word is ‘accident’. It’s something we hear all the time. “Sorry, it was just an accident” or “there’s been a traffic accident’.But have you ever stopped to think about the impact the word has? I hadn’t until I read the book by my guest journalist Jessie Singer. In ‘There Are No Accidents’, she explains that the vast majority of mishaps are not random but predictable and preventable. What’s more, the term “accident” also changes how we look at things that go wrong. Perhaps surprisingly, the word protects those in power and leaves the most vulnerable in harm’s way, preventing investigations, pushing off debts, blaming the victims, diluting anger, and even sparking empathy for the perpetrators.
During our discussion, Jessie explains how the death of a close friend prompted her to write the book and what she’s learned from studying a wide range of accidents and why we need to think differently about accidents if we want to save lives and build a more just society.To find out more about Jessie’s book There Are No Accidents: The Deadly Rise of Injury and Disaster — Who Profits and Who Pays the Price visit https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/There-Are-No-Accidents/Jessie-Singer/9781982129668To find out more about Jessie, visit her website - http://jessiesinger.com/During our discussion, we talk about:The concepts of Jay Driving — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-driver and the more common Jay Walking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JaywalkingHugh Dehaven, the pilot who pioneered crash injury research - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_DeHavenThe Grenfell Tower Fire — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fireGrenfell was also covered in an episode of this show, in a two-part discussion with Gill Kernick. Find part one here: 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gill-kernick-on-the-grenfell-tower-disaster-part-one/Grenfell also features on this show, in a two-part discussion with Gill Kernick. Part One here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gill-kernick-on-the-grenfell-tower-disaster-part-one/The Electric Hummer - https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39270970/hummer-ev-proves-were-making-all-the-same-mistakes-again/