The Human Risk Podcast

What makes a good leader? When we think of leaders, we often imagine lone, inspirational figures lauded for their behaviours, attributes, and personal decisions. However, leaders also have an impact on the way people around them make decisions. My guest on this episode is Professor Don Moore. Don is the Lorraine Tyson Mitchell Chair in Leadership and Communication at Berkeley Haas and serves as Associate Dean for Academic Affairs.Don is the co-author of a book with Professor Max Bazerman called Decision Leadership: Empowering others to make better choices, that explores the idea of organisations in the 21st century as decision factories in which effective effective leaders are decision architects, enabling those around them to make wise, ethical choices consistent with their own interests and the organization’s highest values. As a result, a leader’s impact grows because it ripples out instead of relying on one individual to play the part of heroic figure.
To find out more about Don: https://haas.berkeley.edu/faculty/moore-don/
To learn more about Decision Leadership: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300259698/decision-leadership/To hear Don’s previous appearance on the show:https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-don-moore-on-confidence/To hear the previous episode of the show with Wendy Lambourne on Legitimate Leadership: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/wendy-lambourne-on-legitimate-leadership/

What distinguishes a good leader from a bad one? My guest on this episode, Wendy Lambourne is a proponent of Legitimate Leadership — the idea that to have real power, leaders need to have legitimacy. Not by dint of being appointed, but by the way in which they fulfil their role.She believes that leaders stand or fall at the end of the day on the basis of their intent, or motive. Or to put it another way, whether they’re in the relationship to give to their people, or to get something out of them.Since leadership is all about people leading other people, there’s lots of potential for human risk.In our discussion we explore:- how Wendy came to discover the idea of Legitkamte Leadership (LL);- what LL means in practice;- how leaders can manifest it;- the difference between authority and power;- what the implications are for businesses of adopting LL; and- what Wendy has learned from teaching the framework to others.To learn more about Legitimate Leadership see https://legitimateleadership.com/To buy Wendy’s book: https://www.amazon.com/Wendy-Lambourne/e/B00CASM2C4?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_5&qid=1614152045&sr=8-5

When we need to solve problems, we often think we need to develop new ideas. But what if that were wrong?On this episode, I’m joined by Behavioural Science practitioner Sam Tatam whose new book Evolutionary Ideas shows how behavioural science and evolutionary psychology can help us solve tomorrow’s challenges. Not by divining something the world has never seen, but by borrowing from yesterday’s solutions – often in the most unexpected ways.Sam is Global Head of Behavioural Science at Ogilvy. His passion is understanding human behaviour, and his experience comes from organisational/industrial psychology and advertising strategy.From New York to Nairobi, Sam has led behaviour change projects across virtually every category and continent. Today, he leads a global team of talented psychologists and behavioural economists to develop interventions and shape the communications of some of the world's most influential brands and organisations.Links to some of the things we discussed on the episode:
To learn more about Sam’s book ‘Evolutionary Ideas’ which will be published in May 2022 - www.harriman-house.com/evolutionaryideasTo buy the book - https://linktr.ee/evolutionaryideasTo watch Sam’s presentation at Nudgestock 2021 about Evolutionary Ideas - https://youtu.be/7q6rfcRWf08A presentation on Biomimicry at Nudgestock 2018 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TTpgEwgUS4An introduction to TRIZ, a Theory of Inventive Problem Solving - https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newCT_92.htmAn explanation for Sam's reference to singer Ronan Keating - https://youtu.be/IobNcpiwpScTo hear Ogilvy Vice Chairman (the founder of the team Sam leads) Rory Sutherland’s appearances on this show:Rory on Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/Rory & Gerald Ashley on Networks - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley/Rory & Gerald on Prosilience - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/

How do we measure the effectiveness of Compliance programs? It sounds like a simple question, but it is actually hard to answer. And it's not just a challenge facing Compliance Officers.If you work in Ethics, Risk or even as a Regulator, you'll recognise the dynamic. You've probably either been asked to demonstrate the effectiveness of your program or had questions asked about your budget or resources. And usually, that's not because they want to give you more.It's equally possible that you might have wondered how good a job you're doing. I know I did when working as a Regulator and as a Compliance Officer.Now, whatever the reason for the question, it's not an easy one to answer. Because part of it involves proving a negative, you can easily show that you've helped make good things happen, but it's much harder to demonstrate that you've stopped bad things. This is why we often turn to input metrics like 'number of hours of training delivered' or the number of times we executed a particular control. That's interesting, but it doesn't tell you how effective the outcome is. Or isn't. Just because someone has been on a course, and done a little exam, doesn't mean the risk the training is designed to mitigate has been reduced. So how can we best do that? That's what my two guests on this episode were interested in. One of them, Professor Benjamin Van Rooij, has been on the show four times — links to his previous appearances are below. The other, Professor Melissa Rorie, is making her debut. Together, they've edited a book called Measuring Compliance: Assessing Corporate Crime and Misconduct Prevention which contains chapters written by several eminent experts. Contributors to the book Todd Haugh, Ricardo Pelafone & Florentin Blanc have also previously been guests on the show. There are links to those episodes below.If you work in a function whose role is to mitigate Human Risk, feel free to substitute the word Compliance for whatever you're responsible for ——–— because it's still relevant — then what Melissa and Benjamin have to say will be of interest. Because if you don't know how to measure the success of what you do, then there's even less chance that anyone else — say someone who sets your budget, someone who is trying to assess the quality of your program or someone who determines your compensation — will be able to.To find out more about the book: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/measuring-compliance/5C1378AB4F9814D0C41198AEF9A5B6D2For more on Melissa & her research: https://www.unlv.edu/people/melissa-rorie-phdFor more on Benjamin & his research:https://www.uva.nl/en/profile/r/o/b.vanrooij/b.vanrooij.htmlIn our discussion, we talk about:Hui Chen & her work at the DOJ: https://huichenethics.com/about/Ricardo Pellafone & his work at Broadcat: https://www.thebroadcat.com/ricardo-pellafoneFlorentin Blanc & his work at the OECD: https://oecd-events.org/digital-security-for-prosperity/speaker/f46fd492-79c3-eb11-94b3-000d3a219024Rita Faria's book (co-authored with Olga Petintseva & Yarin Eski) called Interviewing Elites, Experts and the Powerful in Criminology https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-33000-2The research on signing at the top of documents to encourage honesty https://www.wired.com/2012/08/signature-honesty/ & the recent findings that it failed to replicate: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1911695117The story of Abraham Wald: https://www.rigb.org/explore-science/explore/blog/how-not-be-wrong#:Professor JS Nelson on Workplace Surveillance https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3504408Previous episodes featuring contributors to the bookBenjamin Van Rooij on COVID Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-1/ Benjamin on The Behavioural Code - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on/Benajmiong & Dany Sokol on Compliance 2.0 - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professors-benjamin-van-rooij/Ricardo Pellafone on Behavioural Design in Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ricardo-pellafone-on-why-compliance/Ricardo Pellafone on the challenges facing Risk & Compliance under COVID - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ricardo-pellafone-on-the-challenges/Florentin Blanc on Regulatory Responses to COVID 19https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/florentin-blanc-on-regulatory-responses/Dr Todd Haugh on Behavioural Aspects of Ethics & Compliance https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-todd-haugh-on-the/

Ever had a terrible customer experience? Of course, you have. They’re very common. But why? My guest Michael Bartlett has just written a book on the dark side of customer experience - in other words, the processes that companies engage in that irritate the hell out of us. The purpose of Michael’s book isn’t — you’ll be pleased to hear – to help companies make their processes more irritating. Rather it's to help them identify when they might inadvertently do things that will turn otherwise loyal customers into people haters. Not only does he shine a light on practices that make this happen, but he also proposes some solutions for how to avoid them happening in the first place.Even if you’re not in the business of managing frontline customer services, what Michael highlights is of interest, because it can help you to understand why certain things are really irritating. And, if you work in a function like Compliance, Ethics, Information Security or HR that designs processes for employees, then what applies in a customer service context, also applies in your world. You can connect with Michael here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbartlettccxp/You’ll find Michael’s book The Dark Side of CX here: https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-CX-patterns-customers-ebook/dp/B09T2B9LR9In our discussion, we explore:The ADKAR change management model https://www.knowledgetrain.co.uk/change-management/change-management-courses/change-management-models/adkarJeanne Bliss on Chief Customer Officer 2.0m - https://www.wiley.com/en-gb/Chief+Customer+Officer+2+0%3A+How+to+Build+Your+Customer+Driven+Growth+Engine-p-9781119047643Joe Wheeler on Managing the Customer Experience: Turning Customers Into Advocates: https://www.pearson.com/uk/educators/higher-education-educators/program/Smith-Managing-the-Customer-Experience-Turning-customers-into-advocates/PGM571623.htmTo hear the podcast episodes I mention featuring:(i) Roger Dooley on Friction - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-roger-dooley-on-friction/(ii) Professor Camilla Andersen on Comic Book Contracts - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-camilla-andersen-on-comicbook-contracts/

Why might an innocuous-sounding word we all use, result in a social injustice? The answer is: when that word is ‘accident’. It’s something we hear all the time. “Sorry, it was just an accident” or “there’s been a traffic accident’.But have you ever stopped to think about the impact the word has? I hadn’t until I read the book by my guest journalist Jessie Singer. In ‘There Are No Accidents’, she explains that the vast majority of mishaps are not random but predictable and preventable. What’s more, the term “accident” also changes how we look at things that go wrong. Perhaps surprisingly, the word protects those in power and leaves the most vulnerable in harm’s way, preventing investigations, pushing off debts, blaming the victims, diluting anger, and even sparking empathy for the perpetrators.
During our discussion, Jessie explains how the death of a close friend prompted her to write the book and what she’s learned from studying a wide range of accidents and why we need to think differently about accidents if we want to save lives and build a more just society.To find out more about Jessie’s book There Are No Accidents: The Deadly Rise of Injury and Disaster — Who Profits and Who Pays the Price visit https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/There-Are-No-Accidents/Jessie-Singer/9781982129668To find out more about Jessie, visit her website - http://jessiesinger.com/During our discussion, we talk about:The concepts of Jay Driving — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-driver and the more common Jay Walking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JaywalkingHugh Dehaven, the pilot who pioneered crash injury research - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_DeHavenThe Grenfell Tower Fire — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fireGrenfell was also covered in an episode of this show, in a two-part discussion with Gill Kernick. Find part one here: 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gill-kernick-on-the-grenfell-tower-disaster-part-one/Grenfell also features on this show, in a two-part discussion with Gill Kernick. Part One here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gill-kernick-on-the-grenfell-tower-disaster-part-one/The Electric Hummer - https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39270970/hummer-ev-proves-were-making-all-the-same-mistakes-again/

Why might insubordination be a good thing? Normally when we use that word, it’s seen as a negative. 
But there’s an alternative interpretation, where insubordination is seen as a positive, constructive challenge to traditional orthodoxy. For ideas to evolve and societies to progress — in other words, if we want to mitigate human risk - we need to cultivate rebels who are committed to challenging conventional wisdom and improving on it. But change is never easy. And it's not easy being a rebel. Particularly if you don’t have the skills to overcome hostile audiences who cling desperately to the way things are. Which is where my guest comes in.He’s Todd Kashdan, Professor of psychology and director of the Well-Being Laboratory at George Mason University in Virginia. Todd’s research explores why people suffer, with an emphasis on the transition from normal to pathological anxiety.Todd has just written a book called ‘The Art of Insubordination: how to dissent and defy effectively’, which provides a toolkit for constructive insubordination. When I first came across Todd’s book — with huge thanks to friend of the show, Dr Zoe Chance — It’s incredible. It’s a book I wished I’d read decades ago and one I’m nos repeatedly dipping into as I work on delivering my human risk mission of bringing behavioural science to ethics & compliance. In our discussion, we explore what prompted Todd to write the book, why insubordination can be a good thing, what the obstacles are to being insubordinate and what we can all do to bring more insubordination into our lives.Some of the things we discuss on the show:
Todd and his research: https://toddkashdan.com/The Art of Insubordination: how to dissent & defy effectively - https://toddkashdan.com/the-art-of-insubordination/Serge Muscovici - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_MoscoviciDr Zoe Chance & her book ‘Influence Is Your Superpower’ - https://www.zoechance.com/Hear Zoe on this show here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-zoe-chance-on-influence/Professor Vanessa Bohns & her book ‘You Have More Influence Than You Think’ - https://www.vanessabohns.com/Hear Vanessa on this show here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-vanessa-bohns-on-influence/David Foster Wallace & his novel Infinite Jest - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_JestL’esprit de l’escalier, the idea that we always think of the perfect answer after the event - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27esprit_de_l%27escalier

What should you listen to when you’ve heard the entire Human Risk podcast back catalogue? I'm glad you asked. Because one of the aims of the show is to explore ideas, stories and people that can help to inspire us to think differently about human risk. And that includes pointing you in the direction of other content producers who have interesting things to say.On this special episode, I’m introducing a fellow podcaster who produces content that I think you’ll find interesting. Daniel Ross is the host of A Load of BS. The BS, of course, stands for Behavioural Science. Like this podcast, A Load of BS is a series of discussions with a wide range of people which seeks the answer as to why we do what we do and what can be done to influence that for good outcomes.Rather than just recommending you subscribe to Daniel’s show and newsletter, I thought I'd invite him into the studio for a chat. So, on this episode, I’m taking all things BS with Daniel Ross.You’ll find Daniel’s newsletter here: https://aloadofbs.substack.com/His show is available on all the major platforms, here's the link to the Apple Podcast feed: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/a-load-of-bs-the-behavioural-science/id1575240086

Why should businesses get involved in politics? Traditionally companies have tried to avoid getting involved in political issues, because remaining apolitical, means you avoid offending anyone. But in the 21st century, there is an increasing expectation that companies will take a position.
As we’ve seen with the invasion of Ukraine, businesses have been taking steps to engage with the public mood. Some have ceased doing business in or with Russia or Russian clients, others have provided humanitarian support to refugees or practical help to the Ukrainian government.So what’s happening and how can companies navigate those challenges. That’s what my guest Dr Joe Zammit Lucia has just written a book about. In The New Political Capitalism: How Business and Societies Can Thrive in a Deeply Politicized World, Joe explores how modern businesses need to reflect the social values and cultural trends which shape the environment in which businesses operate and how an incredibly politicised set of stakeholders — from customers to employees and investors — are expecting companies to have a perspective on political issues.In our discussion, Joe explains to me why companies should and need to get involved in political issues and what that means for the way they’re run. We recorded this before the invasion of Ukraine took place, which is why there’s no reference to it in our conversation. To find out more about Joe’s book The New Political Capitalism visit: https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/new-political-capitalism-9781472990198/You can read more about him here: https://radixuk.org/executiveboard/joe-zammit-lucia/

You can also follow Joe on Twitter: https://twitter.com/joezlTo hear the episode of this show featuring Béatrice Otto on the role of the Fool — https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/beatrice-otto-on-fools/

What drives people to follow careers that involve dangerous activities like skydiving & stunts? My guest is Nicole Smith-Ludvik, a professional skydiver and stuntwoman. Last year, Nicole starred in two incredible advertisements for Emirates, the Dubai based airline which featured Nicole standing on the top of the world’s tallest building, the Burj Khalifa.If you haven’t seen the advertisements — and I recommend watching them before you listen to the show — then you can watch them here:Original ad from June 2021- https://youtu.be/uQHhYRuaEtMThe second ad featuring the Airbus A380 from January 2022 - https://youtu.be/fbL9QdWWJzoBehind The Scenes of the Original ad - https://youtu.be/HagU3vUp0Ck Behdin The Scenes of the Second ad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAR1j6UfoG0What I find fascinating about Nicole is that she’s chosen a carer that involves taking real risk. Many of us talk about risk, but she actually runs genuine risk. And yet, as you’ll hear, she thinks very carefully about how she manages it.In our discussion, I learn how Nicole came to be interested in sky diving, how she thinks about risk, what she does to manage it, and what appeals to her about a carer that involves jumping out of planes. Of course, we explore the Emirates ads and I learn how they came about, what went into filming them and — world exclusive here – what Nicole would love to do if they ever film a third one.To read more about Nicole and her career:https://www.khaleejtimes.com/lifestyle/a-widow-at-25-to-surviving-a-critical-accident-how-nicole-smith-ludvik-made-it-to-the-top-of-the-bhttps://www.republicworld.com/world-news/middle-east/who-is-nicole-smith-ludvik-know-the-woman-who-stood-on-top-of-burj-khalifa-in-emirates-ad.htmlMy thanks to Emirates for giving permission for Nicole to appear and to Dr Roger Miles for the idea of inviting her on.
You can hear Roger’s previous appearances on the show here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-roger-miles-on-conduct/https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/human-risk-webinar-recording-conduct/