Discourse in Magic

In this episode of “Discourse in Magic,” host Jonah Babins shares the exciting news about the podcast’s return. Listeners can look forward to fresh interviews and episodes covering a wide range of topics within the magic community.  Jonah’s “Fool Us” Jonah discusses his recent experiences, including his appearances on the television show “Fool Us.” He also encourages fellow magicians to seize the opportunity and apply to be on the show. Free Training Resource for Magicians A new free training resource is introduced by Jonah, designed to help magicians increase their business success. This tool is aimed at magicians looking to elevate their professional endeavors. How to get more Reviews, Referrals, and Rebookings: https://discourseinmagic.com/double-your-referrals-reviews-and-rebookings/ Growth of a Secret Magic Convention Jonah recounts the expansion of a secret magic convention, sharing insights into its development and what it offers to the magic community. Consulting Work with Asi Wind The episode delves into Jonah’s consulting work with Asi Wind, providing a glimpse into his role and contributions to the magic scene. Lectures and Performances Jonah talks about his extensive travels for lectures and performances. He shares his experiences and the knowledge he has gained from engaging with magicians around the world. Mastermind Group Invitation If you’re already at 25k per month or more in your magic business and want to scale to 6 figures and far beyond I might be able to help. Send me a message to magic@torontomagiccompany.com with the word MASTERMIND and I can walk you through what it looks like to work together and see if I can help! THANKS for returning back, it’s been a pleasure to be back in your earlobes. Looking forward to more fun together.     The post Seven updates for Discourse in Magic appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Jonah returns from the wild to let you know that tomorrow, November 9 2023, he and Ben Train will be appearing for the second time on Penn & Teller’s Fool Us!   In this special magic appetizer, Jonah offers up the three biggest lessons he learned on his second appearance of Fool Us and why you should apply to appear on this show or any other. Lesson 1: Getting Back On The Show Jonah and Ben’s second appearance on Fool Us is a very different story than the first time last year. This time they had much less time to prepare and the trick they were rehearsing was originally designed for a different show altogether. Jonah shares what he and Ben had to do to apply to Fool Us, listen to the feedback from the producers, and modify what they were pitching so they’d be accepted back. Lesson 2: The Week Of Jonah and Ben made a huge mistake the week of their second appearance on Fool Us. That huge mistake was attending the Magic Live convention. It’s an amazing convention but with Fool Us on their minds neither Jonah or Ben could really enjoy the convention and with the distraction of Magic Live they weren’t able to properly prepare for their appearance on Fool Us. If he had to do it again Jonah would have made sure to keep his head clear in the week leading up to Fool Us and he offers his insight on what you should do in the final days before appearing on any show Lesson 3: The Day Of You might recall that last year when Jonah and Ben first appeared on Fool Us they had a stressful rehearsal where the ribbon they used around the watermelon broke. Back then the producers were calm and collected, offered some advice, and the two of them were able to successfully perform in front of Penn & Teller. This year they thought their rehearsal went really well but this time the producers approached them with a concern that the photographs they were using, which were integral to the entire trick, were using a colour that the cameras weren’t able to capture.    With only three hours until taping, Jonah and Ben had to scramble to create new pictures, get them printed, and all the other secret arts and crafts that had to be done to make the trick work.    So what should you do when everything starts to go wrong just before the cameras are rolling? Jonah shares his insight on those final moments on the day of their shoot.  This Friday! If you want to find out if Jonah and Ben successfully fooled Penn & Teller you can watch their appearance on tomorrow’s broadcast on The CW!   Jonah will be back to recording more interviews and lessons for you in the coming months but until then if you’re thinking of applying to appear on a show like Fool Us, you should! The post Three Things I Learned During My Second Appearance On Fool Us appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

In this engaging discussion, Juan Esteban Varela, a master of prop-free magic and creator of Magic in the Dark, shares his fascinating journey from a young magic enthusiast in Chile to a professional in Madrid. He explores the essence of magic beyond visuals and the power of emotional connection. Juan reveals his innovative approach of performing in total darkness, prompting listeners to rethink how perception shapes magic. He emphasizes learning through community and mentorship while passionately advocating for the transformative potential of magic.

In this magical appetizer, Jonah makes a case for counting tricks. Love them or hate them Jonah is convinced that they should be a staple trick in your roster and lays out his reasons why.  Specifically we are discussing one type of card trick, the counting card trick, where you end up counting to a number. It could be any number, a card, a position, weighing the cards, or an actual trick where you are dealing lots of cards.  Misconceptions of Counting Tricks  Maybe, when you hear counting tricks, you immediately think of some of the problematic counting tricks like the 21 Card Trick. What we are hopefully going to express to you in this episode is that most of the challenges that you have with counting tricks are actually with dealing tricks. Those are tricks where you are dealing for a long period of time without any justification for why you’re doing it. If you don’t have a reason for the actual counting through the cards then what you’re doing is boring and, for the most part, audiences are smart and they know when you are dealing through a deck, over and over and over again, that there’s some sort of mathematical mumbo jumbo going on. You probably know of a couple of tricks that are mathematical card tricks in nature, and they probably deal with lots and lots of dealing, and those are not the ones that we are making a case for. We are making a case for when you count and you get closer and closer to the number.  Embedded Suspense Jonah likes to do a multi-phase weighing the card trick where he ends up counting through more than half of the deck multiple times and people go crazy. Usually if you’re doing a card trick you want to build a little bit of suspense. Maybe someone picks a card, they shovel inside the deck, you get a card out, and then they name the card and you look at the card and maybe pause for a second and look at them. You’re trying to build this drama, trying to manufacture drama by not just turning over the dang card. If a card is at a position, like the 21st position for example, you actually have to count one by one by one to get to that position. There is no other way to get there. So instead of there being manufactured drama, which an audience can feel, now there is built in drama.  The best example outside of card magic is the nest of boxes. As you’re opening a box and a smaller box in a smaller box, in a smaller box, getting closer and closer to what is going on, there is anticipation and excitement and the suspense is building because there’s no other way for you to get to that smallest box in the middle, aside from opening the biggest and then the next, and the next, and the next. There’s no faking that kind of drama, it’s built into the magic. Becoming The Conductor  One big thing in magic that Jonah is a big fan of is the rhythm in magic. When somebody is picking a card, when you’re returning it, and when you’re building suspense, there is rhythm. Quite literally, the drama gets closer and closer and closer. You can imagine and draw out the rhythm of what a trick looks like. There’s rhythm built into different magic tricks. Imagine you tear a card once and then you tear it again and then you put your hands together and then, boom, it restores. There’s rhythm to those moments, how long you want to pause between each thing. With counting card tricks you become the conductor of that rhythm. You can decide at what pace you are getting towards the punchline, the climax. You get to conduct the rhythm of how people respond. You can get louder as you get closer to the number or you can go slower as you get closer to the number. The point is, you can really decide how people are experiencing the punchline of this trick. If the card is the 30th, you have to deal 30 cards. There’s no other way to get there but you can decide exactly how you want to arrive there and take the audience with you. Invite Jonah To Your Next Magic Lecture This episode is an excerpt from Jonah’s lecture notes, which you can only see if he lectures in your city. So if you want Jonah to lecture in your city, and you want to get some lecture notes, then you can send an e-mail to magic@torontomagiccompany.com and we will see if we can make our way to your city in 2024. The post Magic Appetizer: A Case For Counting Tricks appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Jonah is joined by Dustin Dean, an incredible mentalist who you may have seen on your TikTok feed. He has over half a million followers and countless videos with millions of views. In this conversation we’ll learn all about his success, how you can get into growing your social media presence, and how to thread the line between fooling your audience and being honest with them. The Mentalist on The Screen Dustin’s first influential exposure and interest in magic really came into focus when he encountered one of Darren Brown’s television shows. Seeing someone call themselves a mentalist and appear to explain the method of what they were doing was the catalyst for Dustin into understanding all the possibilities that magic could express itself as.   Most of the early magic that Dustin learned was through YouTube and in the beginning it was just Dustin and the internet. It was there that he learned his first card tricks before being introduced to magic clubs and the wider world of the magical community.   His big break came from a haircut where, while showing off what we could do to the staff at the barber shop, an agent happened to be there who was looking for more acts to book for the college circuit. You Don’t Have To Be A Magician (To Go Viral) At first Dustin threw himself into social media magic but now he’s mostly known on social media as one who debunks psychics and he’s learned that he doesn’t have to be so restricted to grow on social media. In his conversation with Jonah he shares the lessons and insights he’s learned creating multiple accounts and seeing many of his posts grow to millions of views with millions of followers. Does his social media footprint translate into bookings? Not exactly but Dustin explains how he views his social media work and how it can surprise him in the long run what doors it’s been able to open and what clients he’s been able to secure.  The Honest Liars Dustin has a massive following for his debunking of physics and mediums. Why does he feel so driven to do all the research to expose them? And what does he think about other mentalists who don’t warn their audiences that what they are experiencing is not actually real?  Dustin has given a lot of thought into the ethics of mentalism and it’s effect on how it shapes the thoughts of people in the audience and he dives deep with Jonah into the world of debunking and mentalism and lets us into his reasons into why he does what he does.   Wrap-Up Endless Chain Joel Myers What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? It’s getting more thinking about how it’s done or how it could be possible. Because of Google and social media a lot of people are figuring out how magic tricks work. This is not to say that exposure for the sake of exposure is a good thing but it is nice to see people learning and showing interest and, in a way, pushing magic forward to think of new avenues and ways to fool people. It’s not great that there is so much exposure just for the attention. Exposure videos are a very low level form of attention. It’s an easy dumb way to get views and attention and doesn’t really add much value.  Plugs Dustin can be found everywhere with the same handle @DustinDeanMentalist. You can find him on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, and at dustindeanmentalist.com The post Social Media Magic with Dustin Dean appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

In this magic appetizer Jonah offers up three ways that you can grow your business to making more than 3k a month in the next six months. In the past Jonah has taught master classes and entry-level classes for magicians looking to increase their business and in this episode he’s going to share his insights on the three biggest mistakes that new magicians make when starting their business and what fixes you can do so that you can be well on your way.  Mistake #1: Pricing This is one of the most common mistakes that magicians are making. They’re charging something like $200 or $150 for their gigs. The problem with this is that it is very hard to reach critical mass. It’s very hard to get to $3,000 a month at $300 bookings. You need to do 10 shows a month and 10 shows a month is a lot, especially if you are getting started. The only magicians that get away with charging two, three, or even four hundred are the ones that are doing countless kids parties every single weekend, like four a weekend or more, because that’s the only way that they can actually make those numbers.  If you are getting started, you should aim at the $500 to $1000 range. The reality is that you can now get to your 3k to 5k a month in three to six bookings a month. If people are inquiring and asking you about your rates you should start at $500 and work your way up to $1000. You can do this by slowly increasing your rates. You can do this by having multiple different packages and multiple offerings, like a short show and a long show, or a show plus mingling magic. You can come up with some different options, but aim at the $500 to $1000 per gig range. That way you get it done in three to five gigs a month.  The only thing that’s stopping you from charging $500 to $1000 per gig is in your head. The key to actually getting to critical mass, to getting enough gigs under your belt, is to make enough per gig so that it is worth your while and you can actually start this part-time business.  Mistake #2: Your Leads Leads is another word for the inquiries or people asking about you or anybody who wants to hire you for a magic show. One of the biggest challenges with magicians who are getting started is that their way of getting leads is by crossing their fingers and hoping. That is not a way to generate bookings or a way to bring people into your world. There are tons of practical, tactical ways to get people into your universe, but you have to be doing them.  Some common, popular ways to get leads include mail outreach, cold calling, Google Ads, SEO (Search Engine optimization), generating content for your socials, signing up to gig sites, and Facebook ads. If you pick just one of them and do it every single day for 30 days you’ll have a terrific source for generating leads.  Mistake #3: Marketing Material Far too many magicians websites have one of these two big no-nos. First is a random headshot. Just photos of yourself with spread cards or cards in your hands does nothing for you. It won’t convince anybody that you are good at this. Second are stock photos of magicians and top hats and things that aren’t you. You probably don’t use a top hat when you do your gigs, you probably don’t dress in a tuxedo, and you probably do not have a rabbit.  Instead, what they’re looking to see is actual photos of you doing the thing. If you’re pitching yourself to do company events, it’s photos of you working at company events. If you’re pitching yourself to do bar mitzvahs and weddings, it’s photos of you doing bar mitzvahs and weddings. If you’re pitching to do birthday parties, you get the idea. You need photos of that. How do you get those photos? A million ways. Bring a photographer, ask the people there to take photos, take some photos yourself, bring a friend with you to take some photos with you. There are unlimited ways to do it and the same thing applies to video. One short video of you actually performing for the target market is going to do so much work. It’s gonna help you so much. The clients need proof, and if you’re charging now more than you would’ve been charging before, then one of the big things you’re going to need is proof. Do not fill your website with random headshot photos that you did with a photographer. Do not fill your website with stock photos of magicians. Fill your website with photos of you doing the thing for the people you do the thing for, and videos of you doing the thing for the people that you do the thing for. Level Up Your Magic Business  Those are the three biggest areas that you should be working on to get you to 3-5k a month. If you’re already at 3-5k a month and you want to get to six figures a year, you can send Jonah an email to magic@torontomagiccompany.com with the word “Mastermind” and you can talk with him about working together and seeing if he can get you there faster. The post Magic Appetizer: 3 Ways to Make 3k appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

In this magic appetizer Jonah offers up three things that you may want to think about when you are creating magic, making routines, and putting stuff out in the world.  #1: Clarity Comes from Action and Not Thought When you are coming up with an idea or when you are working on something, it rarely feels like you’re gaining ground when you are just sitting there thinking about stuff. You only gain ground when you do the thing, you have to actually put something down on the drawing board and do something and then you’ve got something to play with. When you actually do the thing, you grow a little bit more attached to it and you start to see the idea for what it really is. As soon as you can do the thing, do it for real people. Maybe do it for a friend, maybe record a video of yourself doing it or trying it, even if it feels too early, you don’t need to publish it and share it with a million people, you just have to find a place to do the thing. Whether it’s an open mic night, whether it’s doing it for a friend, or whether it’s just videoing it and doing it for yourself, clarity comes from action and not thought. You will not think your way out of a problem. #2: Limitation Breeds Creativity It can be impossible to create when you have nothing that you can draw on. In the past any growth that Jonah has ever had in his show has come from one of two things. They’ve ever come from a deadline or it comes from an obvious hole that is in his act. You will be way more likely to actually pull something together when you have a box that you’re trying to work within. Aim to solve a problem and get it done by a deadline. The more limitations that you have, the more likely it is that you’re going to actually produce something. Do not give yourself endless time for endless options to come up with something or you will end up with nothing. #3: The Best Ideas Come From Past Ideas It is so much easier to reach back into something that you’ve already done in some way and modify it than it will be to come up with something brand new. It’s kind of like a paradox that you have to draw on stuff that you’ve already done to come up with something new because then how do you come up with something new if you’re already drawing on stuff that you’ve already done? To get past this, find a low stakes environment that you can play and you can try things at. Go get some first drafts there and out of the way so that when you actually have to create something you have examples to draw on that you’ve actually laid a little bit of the groundwork that you can pull from. So whether you’re getting a chance to perform on open mic nights, or you are putting out a video, you want to get some of these first drafts under your belt so that when the time comes that you want to actually create something and fill those gaps you’ll be ready for it. You’re not starting completely fresh, but you’re pulling from a short list of ideas that you have used before. Having a low stakes place to actually try stuff is great, not just so that you can try, but so that later you can draw on it. Find a place to come up with those first draft ideas so that later when the time comes, when it’s important, you have some first drafts that you can pull from and then start working on and tweaking and playing with. The post Magic Appetizer: Three Notes on Creativity appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Jonah is joined by David Gerard, a magician who started later in life after a career working in silicon valley marketing for startups. David’s unique background and experiences blends perfectly with Jonah’s interests and curiosity in this conversation that covers everything from how to face the harsh reality of criticism and examining what it feels like to be fooled, to discussions on marketing yourself for corporate events, retaining your clients, and how to grow your magic business.  Making a Choice to Be Amazed David remembers vividly his first encounter with magic and shares with us the story of how his dad took him to see a magician and made the decision that day not to pick the trick apart but embrace the choice to be amazed. David took that amazement and carried it with him as he grew up.  It didn’t really start there though as David would go on to work for Google and eventually move on to marketing with startups around the Seattle area. Magic was always there in the background but he’s an admitted late bloomer to the life of a professional magician. This means now, of course, that when he performs at a corporate event he can literally speak their language and knows how to connect with that audience.  The Magic (and Science) of Gratitude David is passionate about mindfulness and meditation and he shares with us lessons he’s learned and the questions he’s asked himself as he continues to perform. He also encourages every magician to examine why they’re on the stage in the first place, to understand what it means to be fooled (and how that isn’t always a positive experience for people), and being clear about your wants and desires.  Marketing To Your Expertise In the later half of this conversation Jonah and David deep dive into marketing your show. David offers up advice on how to get your time on stage, how to handle criticism, and the importance of choosing carefully who you get your advice from.  Does your show have to be original? Or is it more important that your connection to the audience is authentic? How vital is it to study the classics versus breaking out to invent your own routine? And when you have that all sorted out how do you market yourself to event planners and agents who are booking magicians for their next event?  David shares his ideas on how to retain those relationships with those event planners, where to find corporate gigs, and important tips to retain those gigs while also sourcing new ones.  Wrap-Up Endless Chain Eric Mead What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? A lot of people are getting exposed to magic now and there is better magic out there now. It’s really great that people are so welcoming and so sharing and the secrets aren’t that far away now.  However, there are less and less places to get stage time which is the number one thing that makes you good and that’s really sad. Plugs David’s primary page is gerardmagic.com and you can stay in touch with him on Instagram at @davidgerardmagic The post Magic, Mindfulness, and Marketing with David Gerard appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Today Jonah talks about how to sell tickets to your public magic show by offering up four ways that you can use to sell out your public ticketed magic show. Tip #1: Submit to Listings This is an easy one, an obvious one, and one that you should always be doing. submit to listings all over your city. There are journals, newspapers, online news places, places that actually have event submissions. If you search for things to do in your city you will find all of the websites that have recommendations for what to do this weekend. All of those listings accept submissions. They’ll accept information about different ideas for what to do in your location. So if you make a list of all of the different listings or places that you can list events in your city, then it’s very, very easy whenever you launch your show. One by one, submit your show to every single listing for them to list in the things to do category, and you’re gonna get a lot of traffic from there because people are looking for what to do. People get pretty excited when they get to go see a magic show in your city, and it’s a pretty easy way for them to know about it.  Tip #2: Share on Social Media Maybe this seems obvious to you, but a lot of the times when people put on public shows, they post one poster or something like that, and that is it. Keep the public up to date, post posters, post photos, post videos, post information, and most importantly let them know when tickets are almost sold out. People love to buy things when they know that other people have already bought them. So as well as trying to sell your first few tickets on social media you should also be aiming to sell the last few tickets. Help encourage your audience, your fans, to actually get tickets to come and see the show.  Plus, the people in your world really like to see the behind the scenes. How is your show getting made? How are you getting your venue? How are you getting prepared? How are you? Get people really excited about the show and get them to know the behind the scenes. Tip #3: Run Facebook Ads Facebook ads are great because you can target exactly the right people. You can say that you want people that are within 10 miles of a particular location or for people that are only interested in specific types of things. Whatever you’re thinking, give that a try. There’s no right or wrong answer. Some searches that Jonah likes to use are people that are interested in theater, entertainment, art galleries, magic people that like David Blaine, or people that like America’s Got Talent. A great direction to target is using search terms that sort of feel like they’re in the same realm as what you do. If you target the right people with the right ads, and if you have all of the tracking set up correctly, then you’re gonna know how many tickets exactly are sold from your Facebook ads.  Tip #4: Get On Local News Send a press release telling all of the local news stations, just like you did all of the event submissions, telling them that you have a public magic show. If you give them the details, and you do it every time, then you may be surprised by who wants to bring you on their morning show. They’re always looking for fun, interesting stuff to bring on the show and magic is the most fun and interesting thing. You’ll get to perform for the hosts of the show and then you get to promote your event. Even though young people maybe don’t watch the morning news a lot, there are still a lot of people who do. A lot of people get their news and their ideas for things to do from these programs. So reach out to things like radio shows in your city and morning shows on local tv. Send messages and tell them that you have a public show. Follow Up With Jonah If you need help accomplishing any of these things then feel free to send Jonah an email at magic@torontomagiccompany.com. And if you’ve ever gotten a nugget of value out of this show, it would mean the universe if you left a review in the podcast app of your choice.  The post Magic Appetizer: How To Sell Out Your Show appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Jonah is joined by FISM winner Markobi where they talk all about what it takes to win a competition, what it’s like to work with a team, and what it’s like to work alone. Free Videos and Social Media Markobi learned his first magic tricks from those very same free youtube channels that magicians in the industry today can’t stand. From those videos he started following the names that kept showing up in the comments and began connecting with more and more people doing anything he could to speak to magicians on social media. From there it was up to him to take the train to Paris and start meeting these magicians in person. Markobi speaks candidly with Jonah about how important those early days of networking and connection were to figuring out what kind of magician he wanted to become.  The Road To FISM In this conversation Markobi shares with Jonah who his inspirations were for his grand champion win at FISM 2022. He talks about what it’s like to work on a team, and some of the misconceptions you may have about what it means to be on a competition magic team, it’s a lot more alone time than you may think. Most magicians are quick to point out that Markobi’s FISM performance is very funny for magicians and seems particularly tailored to that particular audience and environment. With Jonah, Markobi gets into the considerations he made when scripting his world champion performance and how he tailors his jokes for the audience he has. He also offers up advice on how you should handle your time at a competition you’re competing in.   Finally, Markobi catches us up on how his life has changed post FISM. The work he’s doing now and how winning the grand prize at FISM isn’t the end of the road but just the very beginning for him. Wrap-Up Endless Chain Alain Simonov  What do you like about modern magic? What do you not like? A lot of magicians are keeping to the basics and old techniques despite the rise and lure of modern technology. Even new discoveries are being found by studying old books and continuing old traditions of magic. Even young magicians are not forgetting about the past but looking to it for inspiration, which is very surprising.   The importance of mentalism is very boring. It’s not always bad but everyone wants to do it and there’s a lot more bad mentalism than good mentalism. Too many mentalists are just following trends. Plugs Since FISM, Markobi’s youtube channel has been reopened at youtube.com/@Markobi1 On Instagram, take note that you add the extra “m” at the end of his name at instagram.com/markobim  If you’re following those two channels you’ll be the first to know when Markobi’s book is ready! The post The World Champion of Magic with Markobi appeared first on Discourse in Magic.