Discourse in Magic

In this episode, Jonah Babins is joined by rising UK magic star Luke Oseland to explore a journey that spans from toy magic sets and teenage tinkering to Fringe Festival sellouts and cruise ship stints. From co-creating Insane Magic to redefining how young magicians build their brands, Luke shares the behind-the-scenes of developing shows, finding your performance voice, and building a magic career from scratch. You’ll learn how to structure a magic show, when to take creative risks, and why sometimes the best marketing strategy is just putting on a killer show. How Luke Got Started in Magic Luke’s magic journey began like many—with a gift from his grandparents. But instead of fading interest, his obsession grew. He found early inspiration in televised magic like Penn & Teller: Fool Us and Dynamo, and later deepened his craft through the Young Magicians Club in London, a standout space for aspiring performers under 18. After aging out, he transitioned directly into the Magic Circle and began exploring his path as a creator, consultant, and eventually a performer. From Creator to Performer Luke initially leaned into the behind-the-scenes world of magic—creating, consulting, and selling effects—before realizing, at around age 19, that performing could be just as fulfilling. His move to Edinburgh was pivotal: by immersing himself in the city’s vibrant arts scene, he began gigging in clubs and bars, testing material at stand-up nights, and ultimately launching full productions at the Edinburgh Fringe. Building Magic Shows that Work Luke breaks down the process of creating shows like Drunk Magic, The Magic Hangover, and the crowd-favorite Insane Magic (with Cameron Gibson and Elliot Bibby). His philosophy is simple: start with great magic and let the narrative emerge naturally. While some magicians obsess over crafting a poetic through-line, Luke suggests focusing on structure, pacing, and audience experience—advice rooted in trial, error, and over 80 shows per month during the Fringe. Writing with a Team and Making It Work Collaborating on a show with two other magicians might sound like a nightmare, but Luke offers insights on how Insane Magic became a creative success. With clear roles, shared strengths (and occasional arguments), the team managed to build one of the most entertaining magic experiences on the Fringe circuit. From using Google Docs to obsessively fine-tuning one joke for 40 minutes, the process is messy—but worth it. Magic Clubs Done Right Unlike many North American magic clubs (which Luke and Jonah agree are often outdated), Luke shares how the Edinburgh Magic Circle is building a model for what community magic clubs should look like: young, vibrant, collaborative, and egoless. With guest lecturers like Michael Ammar and a casual pub-based meetup format, the club plays a crucial role in fostering a healthier, more progressive magic community. Fringe Economics and the Business of Performing Luke pulls back the curtain on what it really takes to succeed at the Edinburgh Fringe—from how much money you can make (or lose) to what types of performers benefit most. Whether you’re refining material, building a brand, or chasing cruise contracts, Luke makes a compelling case for why Fringe festivals—when approached strategically—are still one of the best opportunities in magic. Why Magicians Need to Be More Original Luke shares strong views on creativity in magic, including his frustration with magicians lifting material from Instagram clips or assuming every trick should be for sale. While he’s realistic about commercial magic’s role, he calls for more originality, especially among pros, and offers a passionate defense of creating magic that truly belongs to you. Endless Chain At the end of the episode, Luke recommends magician and consultant Harry De Cruz as a future guest. Known for his work with Dynamo and his role in revitalizing the Young Magicians Club, Harry brings a modern voice to the evolving magic landscape. Mentions Luke Oselan’s Instagram (@lukeosey) Insane Magic with Elliot Bibby and Cameron Gibson The Edinburgh Magic Circle The Magic Hangover (new 2025 Fringe show) The post The Business of Fringe Magic with Luke Oseland appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

In this week’s episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins returns with a behind-the-scenes look at the Mexico Mastermind Summit, his latest adventures in AI, and what’s next for the magic community. After a brief hiatus, Jonah shares the lessons, breakthroughs, and future plans that are shaping his approach to magic and business in 2024. The Summit Experience: Magic, Community, and Growth Jonah kicks things off by recapping the recent Mastermind Summit in Cancun, where 40 magicians gathered for a week of learning, jamming, and business breakthroughs. Unlike traditional conventions, this summit focused on real-world magic—sharing “bangers” (the best tricks magicians actually perform), everyday carry routines, and even a spontaneous show where names were drawn from a sombrero. But the real value, Jonah explains, came from the community: magicians supporting each other, sharing feedback, and pushing each other to new heights. Whether you’re a seasoned pro or just starting out, Jonah emphasizes that surrounding yourself with a group of like-minded performers is the fastest way to grow. Three Big Lessons from the Summit Jonah distills his experience into three key takeaways: AI is Essential for Magicians The most popular session at the summit was all about using AI to supercharge your magic business. Jonah created custom GPTs to help magicians write viral posts and craft messages for clients—tools that attendees could use and implement on the spot. His message: AI isn’t just a trend, it’s a must-have skill for magicians who want to stay ahead. Magic Itself Needs More Focus While business skills are crucial, Jonah realized that magic—the craft itself—can’t be neglected. The Mastermind is now doubling down on helping members improve their performances, not just their marketing. From joke writing to effect selection and stage presence, the goal is to help every magician become legendary, not just successful. Community is Everything The biggest breakthrough? The power of working together. Whether it’s the Mastermind or your own circle of trusted friends, having a support system accelerates growth and makes the journey more fun. Jonah encourages listeners to find their own “band of magicians” if the Mastermind isn’t the right fit. Actionable AI Tips for Magicians Jonah shares his top strategies for making AI work for you: Use AI Every Day: Set your browser to open ChatGPT or your favorite AI tool by default. Better Prompts, Better Results: Use the “Role, Request, Context, Format” method to get more useful responses from AI. Teach AI About You: Take advantage of memory, custom instructions, and custom GPTs to personalize your AI’s output. Stay Ahead of the Curve: As AI changes how people find and book magicians, building a strong brand and community is more important than ever. Where to Find Jonah This Summer Jonah is hitting the road! If you’re in LA (May 27–30), Chicago (June 8–11), Philly (June 23–26), Mentions Follow Jonah on Instagram: @discourseinmagic Email Jonah: magic@torontomagiccompany.com Previous episode with David Gerard on the power of a creative circle. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode! What’s your biggest takeaway from the summit, or your favorite AI tip? Share your thoughts in the comments or on social media, and let’s keep growing together. Be sure to subscribe to Discourse in Magic for more insights, tips, and strategies to elevate your magic business.   The post Summit, AI and Where I Am appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

In this episode, Jonah Babins is joined by corporate magic legend Bill Herz to unpack a career that spans summer camps, corporate boardrooms, and headline features in The Wall Street Journal. From his early days performing with Paul Cummins to founding Magicorp and representing world-class talent, Bill shares the highs, the hustle, and the hilarious behind-the-scenes of building a career in corporate magic. You’ll learn what makes a magician bookable, how to navigate pricing, and why a magician’s greatest asset might be understanding the client better than they understand themselves. How Bill Got Started in Magic Like many magicians, Bill’s journey began with a magic set at eight years old. But what set him apart was a unique blend of showmanship, business sense, and a willingness to perform for anyone, anywhere—from birthday parties to summer camps and community centers. The Creation of Magicorp What started with teaching a CEO one simple trick became a revolutionary corporate entertainment concept. Bill realized the power of using magic as a tool in business communication, eventually founding Magicorp to help executives shine and manage bookings for the best in the industry. What Makes a Magician Corporate-Ready Bill breaks down what he looks for in the performers he books—hint: it’s more than a good show. From being able to describe what makes you different in one sentence, to being professional, personable, and ego-free, he outlines the traits that help magicians thrive in the corporate world. Understanding Your Value and Pricing Pricing is more than picking a number—it’s about asking the right questions and understanding what the client needs. Bill shares how he approaches pricing based on value, logistics, and market perception, and why being flexible (but smart) is essential to getting booked and respected. Social Media, Managers, and Magician Mistakes Bill doesn’t hold back when talking about magicians on social media and their obsession with “busy bragging.” He also dives into why having a manager or being repped by a big agency can sometimes hurt more than help—and how magicians can avoid sabotaging their own careers. Endless Chain At the end of the episode, Bill recommends magician Derek Hughes as a future guest. A brilliant performer and a friend of Bill’s, Derek brings a unique blend of comedy and magic that works exceptionally well in the corporate space. Mentions Bill Herz’s Website Magicorp – Corporate Magic Booking Agency David Copperfield Mac King Ben Seidman Colin Cloud   The post Pioneering Corporate Magic with Bill Herz appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins sits down with magician, circus performer, and entertainer Leah Orleans to discuss her unique journey in magic, her experiences blending circus arts with illusion, and how she pushes the boundaries of traditional performance. Leah shares insights into how she found her place in the magic world, her approach to creating engaging and original performances, and the lessons she’s learned along the way. Finding Magic in the Circus Leah’s entry into the world of magic was anything but conventional. She started as a circus performer, mastering aerial arts, juggling, and acrobatics before discovering how magic could enhance her performances. Her background in physical theater and movement helped her develop a distinctive performance style that captivates audiences in a way few traditional magicians can. Standing Out in a Male-Dominated Industry As a female performer in both circus and magic, Leah has navigated challenges and misconceptions while forging her own path. She discusses the importance of representation, the struggles of being underestimated, and how she has turned those obstacles into strengths. By bringing a fresh perspective and a multidisciplinary approach to her craft, she continues to inspire others to think outside the box. Creating Unique and Immersive Experiences Leah shares her process for designing routines that seamlessly blend magic with circus arts. From crafting new illusions to reimagining classic tricks, she explains how movement and storytelling play a crucial role in her work. She also dives into the creative risks she takes to ensure each performance is not only visually stunning but also deeply engaging for her audiences. Advice for Performers and Magicians For those looking to break into the world of performance, Leah offers practical advice on developing a distinct style, building confidence on stage, and continuously refining one’s craft. She emphasizes the importance of perseverance, experimentation, and finding one’s unique voice in an industry that often leans toward tradition. Endless Chain April Jennifer Choi Where to Find Leah Orleans To learn more about Leah Orleans, her performances, and upcoming projects, follow her on social media and check out her website: Website: Leah Orleans’ Website Instagram: @LeahOrleans Facebook: Leah Orleans Magic & Circus The post Leah Orleans: Pushing Boundaries in Magic appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

This week on Discourse in Magic, we’re bringing you a special repost of Jonah Babins’ appearance on the Penguin Magic Podcast, hosted by Erik Tait. Jonah, the long-time host of Discourse in Magic, takes the guest seat and shares insights on the world of magic, business, and podcasting. How Jonah Built Discourse in Magic  Jonah shares the journey of how Discourse in Magic has grown over the years. He discusses the evolution of the show, the challenges of maintaining a podcast in the magic space, and what has kept him going for nearly a decade. Jonah explains his strategy for selecting guests, emphasizing the importance of personal interest. He shares how being genuinely curious about a guest’s work leads to more engaging and meaningful conversations. The Evolution of His Magic Career  Jonah reflects on how his interests have changed over time. While Discourse in Magic initially focused on deep philosophical discussions, his passion has shifted toward the practical aspects of magic, especially business growth and performance.  Jonah shares insights into his Mastermind program, where he helps magicians grow their businesses. He talks about the structure of the program, its benefits, and the transformative results that many of his students have experienced. The Three Key Pillars of a Successful Magic Business Jonah breaks down the fundamental elements necessary to build a thriving magic business. He details how generating leads, improving sales techniques, and optimizing business systems can help magicians increase their income and efficiency. Jonah emphasizes the power of having a supportive network. He explains how magicians in his Mastermind program benefit from shared knowledge, accountability, and expert guidance to help them achieve their business goals. Mentions Jonah’s Magic Business Coaching Discourse in Magic Instagram Vote for Jonah in the FM Magic Podcast Awards  Enjoy the episode and don’t forget to subscribe for more deep dives into the art and business of magic! The post Jonah Babins: Magic’s Business Whisperer appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

In this solo episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins dives into the world of public shows, sharing his insights on why every magician should consider doing them. He also provides a sneak peek into his upcoming shows across North America and highlights a special event happening at the end of April. Why Do Public Shows? Promo Material: Public shows are an excellent opportunity to get high-quality promotional material. By hiring a photographer or videographer, you can capture footage of your performance that can be used to market yourself and book more gigs in the future. Friends and Family: Public shows provide a chance for your friends and family to see you perform. They are your biggest supporters, and this is a great way for them to experience your magic without the high cost of private or corporate events. Client Engagement: Offering free tickets to past and potential clients is a fantastic way to maintain relationships and generate new business. It gives you a reason to reach out and offer something valuable, which can lead to future bookings.  Upcoming Shows  Jonah shares his tour dates and locations for the next two months: – March 6th: Boston, performing at the Boston Magic Lab. – March 7th-9th: Connecticut, performing and lecturing at Mcon. – March 18th-20th: Austin, Texas, performing a show with Michael Rogerson. – March 25th-28th: Montreal, performing a show with John Elli. – April 8th-11th: St. Louis, performing a show with Josh Weidener. – April 28th-May 2nd: L Summit in Mexico, a special event for Mastermind members.  Mentions Boston Magic Lab Michael Rogerson John Elli Josh Weidener Toronto Magic Company     The post Public Shows and Upcoming Tour Dates appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins sits down with Jonathan Levit to discuss his multifaceted career in the entertainment industry, from acting and hosting to creating innovative magic tricks and apps. Jonathan shares his journey, insights, and the magic behind his successful projects, including his Vegas show and The Stranger app. Early Magic Journey Jonathan discusses how he discovered magic through his father’s props and the magical community in St. Louis that shaped his early years. He reflects on the importance of mentorship and friendships in his development as a magician. Acting and Hosting Career Jonathan talks about his transition to acting and hosting in Los Angeles, sharing the challenges and rewards of working in front of the camera. He emphasizes the skills he gained from acting and hosting that have enhanced his magic performances. Consulting on Films Jonathan recounts his experience consulting on films like “The Incredible Burt Wonderstone,” working with actors like Steve Carell and Jim Carrey. He shares memorable moments from the set and the unique challenges of bringing magic to the big screen. Vegas Show  Jonathan provides insights into his current show at the Venetian in Las Vegas, describing its intimate and theatrical format. He discusses the journey of getting the show to Vegas and the dynamics of running a successful production in a competitive environment. The Stranger App Jonathan explains the creation and functionality of The Stranger app, a powerful magic trick that combines technology and community. He highlights the app’s impact on his performances and the global community of magicians it has fostered. Nexus Project Jonathan introduces his latest project, Nexus, which serves as a digital hub for creating innovative magic routines. He details the features of Nexus and how it allows magicians to integrate various inputs and outputs seamlessly into their performances. Endless Chain  Jonathan recommends Christopher Hart as a future guest for the podcast, noting his expertise and contributions to the world of magic. Mentions Jonathan Levit’s Website Jonathan Levit Instagram Twisting the Aces The Stranger App The post Magic and Mystery with Jonathan Levit appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

Welcome to another insightful episode of Discourse in Magic with your host, Jonah Babins! This week, Jonah shares his journey and lessons learned from running Google ads in his magic business. Unlike tactical episodes, this one dives deep into the mental game and personal experiences that paved the way for success. Perseverance and Mindset Jonah’s initial attempts with Google ads led to small gigs and disappointment, making him nearly give up on the idea. However, he emphasizes the importance of persistence and learning from failures. Understanding that hard things may not work the first time is crucial for growth. Learning and Commitment After a five-year hiatus, Jonah revisited ad campaigns with a dedicated effort to learn and improve. He spent significant time understanding the basics of running ads, leading to better results. The significance of investing time in learning cannot be understated. Hiring Experts Jonah’s decision to hire professionals transformed his ad campaigns and led to significant business growth. He highlights the value of expert knowledge and continuous improvement. Collaborating with experts allowed Jonah to scale and optimize his ad campaigns effectively. Scaling and Growth Taking successful ad campaigns to the next level involved hiring the right people. Jonah discusses the impact of mentorship and expert guidance in achieving business growth. He emphasizes the importance of investing in education and professional support to unlock new levels of success. Stay Connected: Website: Discourse in Magic Instagram: @discourseinmagic Facebook: Discourse in Magic The post Runnings Ads to Get Gigs appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

In this episode, Jonah sits down with Rachel Wax to discuss her journey from fashion to full-time magic, performing at Speakeasy Magick, and her creative process for developing new routines. Getting Into Magic Rachel’s introduction to magic came from her father, a surgeon with a passion for tricks. At 15, she learned a self-working card trick, sparking a lifelong fascination. Despite initially pursuing fashion design at FIT in New York, Rachel found herself drawn into the city’s magic scene, demoing magic kits at FAO Schwarz and Toys ‘R’ Us. This led her to The Magnets, a group of magicians who jammed and performed together, helping her refine her craft. The New York Magic Scene Rachel shares insights into what makes the New York magic scene unique, from its competitive nature to the high expectations of its audiences. She highlights how performing in such a dynamic city pushes magicians to be better and why close-up magic is having a moment right now. Speakeasy Magic and Performing in Immersive Environments As a regular performer at Speakeasy Magick Rachel describes the challenges and rewards of working in an immersive, up-close environment. She explains how the show is structured, what makes it special, and how it has shaped her as a performer. Creative Process and Mind Mapping Rachel breaks down her approach to creating new magic, including how she uses mind mapping to develop tricks that align with her character. She also walks through her process for refining routines, incorporating audience feedback, and continuously evolving her material. Being a Woman in Magic Rachel candidly discusses her experiences as a woman in the magic industry, from dealing with audience perceptions to navigating sexism at conventions. She shares how she turns low expectations into an advantage and the importance of fostering an inclusive and supportive magic community. The Business of Magic in New York Jonah and Rachel discuss the business side of magic, including how private gigs and ticketed shows shape a magician’s career in New York. Rachel also touches on why having multiple great magic shows in a city helps grow the industry rather than creating competition. Mentions Speakeasy Magic Vanishing Inc. (Mind Mapping project) Rachel Wax’s Website Instagram Endless Chain Rachel recommends checking out: Eli Bosnick   The post Magic and Mystery in New York with Rachel Wax appeared first on Discourse in Magic.

In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins sits down with magician, science communicator, and viral illusion creator Matt Pritchard. Matt’s unique approach blends his background in physics with a passion for magic, leading to mesmerizing optical illusions and science-based performances that captivate audiences worldwide. How Matt Got Into Magic Matt shares his journey into magic, starting with escapology as a teenager before evolving into a love for illusions. He discusses how his studies in physics and early performances in bars and student events led to a deeper appreciation for the overlap between magic and science. The Intersection of Magic and Science Jonah and Matt explore the shared sense of wonder in both disciplines. Matt explains how science and magic both challenge our understanding of reality—one by uncovering truths and the other by deliberately concealing them. He also touches on his work in science communication, where he teaches students using illusions to explain scientific concepts. The Rise of Matt’s Viral Illusions During the pandemic, Matt started sharing his optical illusions online, quickly gaining traction. He details how his illusions evolved through audience feedback and meticulous experimentation. One of his standout viral creations—an elephant disappearing from a moving train track—attracted major attention from magicians and illusionists worldwide. Creativity and Problem-Solving in Illusions Matt offers insight into his creative process, from finding inspiration in old magic books and science experiments to refining illusions through trial and error. He discusses the fusion of stage and close-up magic techniques in his work, making them especially deceptive—even to seasoned magicians. The Business of Science Magic Matt talks about transitioning from working in a science museum to performing independently in schools and festivals. He shares how word-of-mouth, smart branding (switching from “Lab Monkey Productions” to “Science Magic Shows”), and strategic partnerships helped grow his business. The Ethics of Magic and Social Media Jonah and Matt debate the challenges of posting illusions online, particularly dealing with exposure and explanations in comment sections. Matt embraces engagement, often encouraging audiences to theorize about his illusions while maintaining a sense of mystery. Final Thoughts and Recommendations Matt reflects on his favorite aspects of modern magic, emphasizing performances that focus on human connection and wonder. He also shares his least favorite trend: exposure videos that diminish the mystery and artistry of magic. Endless Chain Matt suggests two fascinating guests for future episodes: Ian Kendall – A highly skilled street performer from Edinburgh. Gaia Rossi – A talented stage magician and psychologist, offering insights into the psychology behind magic. Mentions Instagram & Twitter: @sciencemagician Website: Science Magic Shows Derren Brown’s Show – Derren Brown Twist Museum, London – Twist Museum Robert Harbin’s Work – Robert Harbin on Magicpedia Lawrence Hass’ Paper Ball Act – Lawrence Hass   The post The Art and Science of Illusions with Matt Pritchard appeared first on Discourse in Magic.