Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

David Santistevan: Worship Leader, Blogger, Teacher
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Jan 9, 2026 • 1h 14min

#380: Ministry For The Down & Out, The Discarded, And The Underdog with Calvin Nowell

This is an episode for the ministry underdog. There are some unwritten, unhelpful rules about worship ministry and Christian music that we need to say out loud. You’re too old. Your voice isn’t strong enough. You’re too overweight. Your style isn’t what we’re going for. You can’t be the face of the ministry. Of course, we don’t say these things out loud, most of the time. But it appears that too often our modus operandi is to be attractive and impressive, beautiful. How are we going to sell the most records? Who is going to draw people to our church? The longer we operate with these cultural values, the more we sideline great leaders and harm them in the process. I’m not advocating anyone could be a worship leader. Obviously, there are skill standards. But how far is too far when it comes to talent, image, beauty, and age? At what point have we abandoned kingdom values for profit, power, and influence? Calvin Nowell is my guest today. Calvin is a songwriter, worship leader, and singer who has sung with many of the top names in Christian Music. Calvin also leads a diverse music collective called Aware Worship that is bringing awareness to the people side of ministry. This is vulnerable conversation. We talk about the dark sides of the industry, stigma in ministry, supporting the underdog, and looking for Jesus on the margins. Tears were shed. The presence of God was felt. Trust me, you will be encouraged. My name is David Santistevan. As always, thanks for listening. You can reach me anytime at david@beyondsundayworship.com. Topics Covered: Calvin’s journey as a worship leader The reality of starting music later in life Why we shouldn’t be afraid of frequent new songs Why diversity is important How the Christian music industry needs to change Why God still has a plan for you The struggle of weight and image as a worship leader Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Aware Worship Instagram.com/calvinnowell Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #380: Ministry For The Down & Out, The Discarded, And The Underdog with Calvin Nowell appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.
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Jan 2, 2026 • 1h 8min

#379: When Worship Gets Political with David Gate

It’s becoming almost a tradition that when I need to talk about something really difficult, I invite David Gate on the Podcast. David is a former worship leader, recording artist turned author who has a keen eye about what is happening in the world. And he’s not afraid to tell it like it is. David wrote an article recently called “The Soundtrack For American Fascism is Worship Music” – I know, pretty intense. But also not entirely hard to believe, if you’re paying attention. In this conversation we talk about it – how worship music can be co-opted to serve anti-Christian political agendas. How easy it is for our Christianity to become enmeshed with our politics to the point where we can’t tell where one begins and the other ends. We look historically at how Hitler co-opted the music of Wagner to serve his political aims. How worship music can be manipulative in healthy and unhealthy ways. We talk about choosing songs and what to do if you’re tired of mainstream, popular worship music. The conversation ends with some music recommendations and thoughts on David’s creative process. This is a difficult chat, but a great one. You’ll be uncomfortable frequently. You may disagree some. But I guarantee it will challenge your thinking and improve your ministry life if you allow it. This is David Santistevan. You can email me any time at David@beyondsundayworship.com. As always, thanks for listening. Topics Covered: When David first noticed the politicization of American worship music What David liked and disliked about the worship industry, as an insider The musician similarities and differences between worship music and Wagner How Hitler co-opted Wagner to serve his political agenda Why it’s not crazy to consider how worship music can serve authoritarian regimes Paying attention to how worship music can manipulate a room The difference between empathy and worship Healthy and unhealthy triumphalism in church Debrief of the Charlie Kirk memorial and what we can learn from it Pro football/College football and racism What to do if you can’t stomach singing popular worship music in church A true definition of Christian persecution Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center David Gate The Soundtrack For American Fascism is Worship Music by David Gate A Rebellion of Care: Poems & Essays by David Gate Nested in Tangles by Hannah Frances Baby by Dijon Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #379: When Worship Gets Political with David Gate appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.
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Dec 17, 2025 • 1h 4min

#378: Why It’s OK To Simplify Our Worship Experiences with Martha Munizzi

What is the future of worship leading? How important are worship leaders and how will that role continue to develop in the future? No one really knows, but it’s worth reflecting on. My guest today is Martha Munizzi – veteran gospel artist, songwriter, worship leader and co-pastor at epic life church in Orlando. This is an interesting conversation because Martha has the perspective of a worship leader and a pastor. We talk about the tension of excellent worship experiences as it relates to church growth and simple congregational worship where the voice of the people take center stage. Practical ways to do simple worship without losing excellence. We talk about the beauty of gospel music and where it’s headed. How to empower young worship leaders and what the older generation can learn from them. We also hear the story of how Martha brilliantly forced her way onto my podcast. It’s kind of hilarious. Topics Covered: How Martha got started in music Why Martha decided to write and pursue gospel music Why worship is so important How to empower younger worship leaders How to simplify worship in a production-heavy age The future of Gospel music The story behind Martha’s new project, “Church is Revival” Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Church is Revival by Martha Munizzi Epic Life Church Martha Munizzi website Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #378: Why It’s OK To Simplify Our Worship Experiences with Martha Munizzi appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.
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Dec 3, 2025 • 1h 7min

#377: How The Western Church Has Been Shaped To Resist Justice (And What We Can Do About It) with Joash P. Thomas

Justice – when you hear that word what do you think of? The word carries some baggage in the church today and has become highly politicized. Too much justice talk and you can be dismissed as Marxist, woke, or a proponent of the “unbiblical” social justice gospel. But if you can remove yourself from cultural baggage, read the Bible with fresh eyes, and look at the life of Jesus, you see justice everywhere. Justice was central to the life and mission of Jesus. And it should be to his followers as well. One of the best books I’ve read on the topic is a new book by Joash Thomas called The Justice of Jesus: Reimagining Your Church’s Life Together to Pursue Liberation And Wholeness. Talking about justice shouldn’t cause us to draw tighter partisan political lines. It should cause us – as Joash says – to be politically agnostic, except on behalf of our marginalized neighbors.  This is an eye-opening conversation. He talk about how colonization has shaped the Western church to resist justice. Why we need more teaching on justice and not less. Why it’s important to diversity our theological influences. And some practical ways any local church can pursue justice. Joash is a kind soul with a deep understanding of justice and Christianity in the global south and what we can learn in the west…from followers of Jesus all over the world.  Topics Covered: How “wokeism” and “Marxism” have become deflective tactics to keep us from facing the truth Why the Evangelical Church needs more teaching on justice How colonization and colonialism has shaped us to resist justice Why it’s good for our formation to diversify our theological influences Why Christians should be politically agnostic Practical ways the church today can pursue justice Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center The Justice of Jesus: Reimagining Your Church’s Life Together To Pursue Liberation And Wholeness by Joash Thomas Joash Thomas website Joash Thomas instagram Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #377: How The Western Church Has Been Shaped To Resist Justice (And What We Can Do About It) with Joash P. Thomas appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.
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Nov 18, 2025 • 1h 45min

#376: An Honest Look At The Systems That Shape The Church In America with Phillip Joubert

One of my goals with this podcast is not simply to talk about the spiritual but also the systemic. One could argue that the two are actually intertwined. Can Christian spirituality thrive in the midst of a toxic system? Is it possible to be formed opposite the ways of Jesus while using the name of Jesus? These are important questions to wrestle with and hold up to cultural Christianity today. We must talk about the cultural systems we are shaped by. That’s not divisive or an attack of the enemy. The truth always shines a light. And the truth will always lead us to greater unity, even if some systems we’ve held dear need to come down. Part of being a faithful follower of Jesus in the world is paying attention to what is of God and what is not. And that’s why I wanted to have a conversation with my friend Phillip Joubert. Phillip is an artist with Common Hymnal, one of my favorite Christian artist collectives out there right now. They are making music that is a refreshing counterpoint to popular Christian music today. It’s Jesus AND justice. It’s praise AND protest. It’s worship music that is rooted in the goodness of God but with a grip on the reality of our world. Phillip is a truth teller. A prophet, you might say. The voice of someone who spots trends and speaks with moral clarity and biblical conviction. Topics Covered: Why praise and protest are needed in our spiritual formation Why worship culture tends to be tone deaf Why we need to decolonize our theology of success A different alternative to an industry of worship The importance of understanding whiteness as a culture Why America needs to be seen as a religion Thoughts on Bad Bunny and rival Super Bowl halftime shows What we can learn from the Maverick City controversy Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Phillip Joubert Common Hymmal Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #376: An Honest Look At The Systems That Shape The Church In America with Phillip Joubert appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.
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Nov 5, 2025 • 55min

#375: Music & Ministry After Hillsong With Matt Crocker

Topics Covered: Matt’s early years of punk band drumming How Matt connected with Joel Houston and Hillsong Church Staying childlike as a worship leader How to overcome insecurity The making of Matt’s first solo project Matt’s favorite Hillsong song he’s been a part of Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Interlude by Matt Crocker Matt Crocker Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #375: Music & Ministry After Hillsong With Matt Crocker appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.
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Oct 22, 2025 • 1h 15min

#374: What We Can All Learn From The Theological And Musical Tradition Of The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III

Part of my desire with this podcast is to highlight voices – important voices that may not break through into the Christian mainstream, but powerful and necessary voices nonetheless. One of those voices is the Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III, pastor of Trinity Church of Christ in Chicago. Dr Moss is a pastor, author, theologian, filmmaker and one of the very best preachers in America today. And I say that without hyperbole. In this interview I talk with Dr. Moss about the black theological tradition, the black church, black music history, black worship, and what the global church can learn from this heroic, innovative, beautiful expression of the church today. This is an important conversation. A necessary conversation for racial unity and moral clarity in polarizing times where history is at risk of being either forgotten or rewritten. Dr. Moss is an amazing communicator. This conversation is full of history, theology, stories, culture, and the celebration of innovative people throughout history. This isn’t just about political cheap shots. This is a celebration of the diversity and beauty of God. Topics Covered: The story of Dr. Moss’s call to ministry and his early career aspirations Why Dr. Moss and his church is “unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian” Why “black theology” is a helpful categorization What America can learn about democracy from jazz music Why politics is not about right or left What is happening in Chicago right now and why the church can’t stay silent Why every pastor needs a mentor outside of their cultural tradition What pastors can learn from professional athletes Otis’ favorite books, movies, & documentaries Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III (website) Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III (instagram) Trinity United Church of Christ Jesus And The Disinherited by Howard Thurman The Souls of Black Folk by W.E.B. Du Bois Poetry Unbound: 50 Poems to Open Your World by Padraig O Tuama The New Abolition: W.E.B. Du Bois and the Black Social Gospel by Gary Dorrien Black in Blues: How a Color Tells the Story of My People by Imani Perry Dancing in the Darkness: Spiritual Lessons for Thriving in Turbulent Times by Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III Blue Note Preaching in a Post Soul World: Finding Hope in an Age of Despair by Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III Otis’ Dream Soundtrack to a Coup d’Etat Daughters of the Dust Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #374: What We Can All Learn From The Theological And Musical Tradition Of The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.
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Oct 16, 2025 • 1h 1min

#373: How Charisma Has Shaped American History And Church History with Molly Worthen

What happens when Americans lose faith in their religious institutions – and politicians fill the void? As you study the scope of American history – and church history in America – you see an interesting connection to charisma. Charismatic leaders rise to prominence and galvanize a following. From the puritans and Andrew Jackson to black nationalists and Donald trump, the saga of American charisma stars figures who possess a bewildering power to move crowds. Charismatic leaders address spiritual needs, inviting followers into a story that gives them knowledge, power, and heroic status, whether as divinely chosen instruments of God or those who will restore national glory. This is the subject of historian Molly Worthen’s new book Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History From the Puritans to Donald Trump. Molly is a professor of history at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a freelance journalist. She teaches courses on North American religion and politics, global Christianity, and the history of ideas. Suffice it to say she is brilliant. I wanted to talk to Molly because her new book feels relevant to our current political climate, but also because charisma the personality trait and charisma the power of the Holy Spirit – is important to understand church history. It’s also important to understand worship and church and the gatherings that we lead. Topics Covered: The declining trust in institutions from 1970 until now The difference between charisma and charm The charismatic leaders of 20th century religious revivals The rise of hyper partisan politics in the American Church What we can learn from the life and politics of Charlie Kirk Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Spell-Bound: How Charisma Shaped American History from the Puritans to Donald Trump by Molly Worthen Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #373: How Charisma Has Shaped American History And Church History with Molly Worthen appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.
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Oct 9, 2025 • 1h 1min

#372: How To Pastor Your Church Through Polarizing Political Times with Pastor Alan Hannah

I’ve said for years that being a senior pastor is one of the most difficult jobs in the world. Yes, you have the responsibility to shepherd people and preach the Word of God. And when growth comes fast, you are forced to become a CEO of a corporation, in addition to pastoring people. You all of a sudden have a large staff and financial pressures that weigh heavily. But even more challenging – in my opinion – is pastoring in America where – for many Americans – faith is tied to their politics. This was no more evident in the wake of the terrible assassination of Charlie Kirk. If you were paying attention, you could see every imaginable reaction to his death in pulpits across America. A week after this happened, I invited my friend Alan Hannah to have a conversation. Alan is the Lead Pastor of a historic, thriving multicultural church in the city of Pittsburgh called ACAC – Allegheny Center Alliance Church. I didn’t want to throw around opinions about Charlie Kirk as much as I wanted to talk about how do we pastor people in a polarizing political climate? ACAC is a true multicultural church – diverse ethnically, socio-economically, and very diverse politically. Prior to Alan becoming the senior pastor, ACAC had been on a significant journey in the 90s of addressing white supremacy and racist ideologies in their church. At the time, ACAC was predominantly white and looked nothing like the community they were called to serve. Repentance, courageous vision, and education went a long way. And today, ACAC continues to fight for their missions statement: following Jesus in diverse community. This conversation is a little bit about Charlie Kirk, but it’s more about disentangling Jesus from our politics to realize the enemy is not on the other side of the voting bloc. How do we pastor people in cultural moments like this in a biblical way? How do we address racism as a church? What does it take to actually become a health multicultural church? I’ll give you a hint: it’s more than hiring a black worship leader. Alan and I discuss this and so much more in this insightful, balanced, pastoral conversation. Topics Covered: The journey from Worship & Creative Pastor to Lead Pastor Transitioning from a white, suburban, homogenous church to an inner city, multicultural environment The cliche answer to ministry fruitfulness that shouldn’t be a cliche The troubled and difficult history of ACAC and how they began to embrace diversity as a church How to address racism as a multicultural congregation How to pastor republicans and democrats in the same church Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center ACAC Jesus Outside the Lines by Scott Sauls Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #372: How To Pastor Your Church Through Polarizing Political Times with Pastor Alan Hannah appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.
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Oct 2, 2025 • 1h 9min

#371: Worship And Songwriting Trends Of The Last 15 Years with Worship Leader Research

Just because something is “Christian” or has the label “Worship” on it does not mean its existence is completely sanctified. The truth is, the church exists in the world and is susceptible to any manner of abuse or dysfunction that any organization is. The same could be said for CCM or worship music. Worship Music still exists within the music industry. And that’s why it’s helpful to study the mechanisms that drive the worship music industry and how that affects local church worship leaders. I know for many, this is an uncomfortable topic to address. But the truth is, it can only help us be more wide awake to what is happening at the intersection of industry and ministry. The industry is always going to industry. Industry is designed to make money. I don’t have much hope for reform or change within the worship music industry…and that’s ok. What matters is how we respond to the machine of industry as local church pastors and worship leaders. That’s why I wanted to bring my friends Marc and Shannan from Worship Leader Research on the pod today. They released an article recently called Worship’s Mostly Male Power Players: The Rise of the Songwriting Family. The article – and this podcast interview – dissects the worship songwriting trends of the 2020s – what we have seen 5 years in as it relates to the top songs being sung in churches all over the world. We also look back at the 2010s and compare those trends to what we’re seeing today. Worship Leader Research is doing some fascinating work that is keeping us wide eyed to actual data and what that could mean for our local churches. This isn’t some ploy to expose fraud, abuse, or capitalism in the church. It’s looking at the data and coming to pastoral conclusions for our local communities so we can all create healthier churches and worship cultures. Topics Covered: Why many have a difficult time evaluating worship industry realities Worship trends in the 2010s How worship movements dominate a market Why influential worship movements may not write the best songs Why small songwriters and movements should feel empowered Worship songwriting trends in the 2020s Why songwriting has become more of a “family” endeavor What we can learn about the rise of Brandon Lake Why so few women are involved in the top worship songs The “Billy Graham rule” as it applies to songwriting Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Worship Leader Research Worship’s Mostly Male Power Players: The Rise of the Songwriting Family @worshipleaderresearch @marcjolicoeur @shannan.k.baker Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! The post #371: Worship And Songwriting Trends Of The Last 15 Years with Worship Leader Research appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

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