Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

Topics Covered: Why Gospel Music is fringe within the church Why we need diversity and how to encourage it Matters of race and racism in the church Finding your voice and being comfortable in your own skin Why we don’t understand the systemic nature of racism and can’t always see it Darwin’s upcoming new Setlist project Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Darwin Hobbs website (Heart Art Worship) Champion by Darwin Hobbs Darwin Hobbs Instagram Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #349: Darwin Hobbs on Finding Your Voice, Gospel Music in the Church, & Why We Can’t Stop Talking About Racism. appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: The story behind David’s new studio The importance of creating in community The challenges of being a Christian artist in 2025 What is exciting about worship music today Challenges with worship music today Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Just Jesus by David Leonard David Leonard Gruhn Guitars Deliver Me From Nowhere: The Making of Bruce Springsteen’s Nebraska by Warren Zanes Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #348: David Leonard on Creating in Community, Corporate Worship, & The Challenges of Being an Artist appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Today we welcome Jeff Cochran to the Beyond Sunday Podcast. Jeff is the founder of the Spiritual Abuse Institute and the host of the Church Disrupted podcast.  Jeff is a business owner, church consultant, and has spent many years in local church ministry. His insights into spiritual abuse, church systems, and creating healtheir churches is so insightful. These are TOUGH TOPICS but so necessary to talk about so that we not only create GROWING church but also SAFE churches, free of abusive practices. Topics Covered: The definition of spiritual abuse and how to spot it Why pastors have a hard time admitting to their faults Spiritual abuse in small and mega churches What is especially challenging about mega church culture Mega church growth systems and what to be aware of How spiritual abuse finds its way into worship ministry Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Spiritual Abuse Institute The Safe Church Pledge Church Disrupted Podcast Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #347: Jeff Cochran on Spiritual Abuse, Mega Church Systems, & Fostering Healthier Worship Ministries appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: The Religious Exemption and what it means How we can use worship as a subtle form of manipulation The mega church structure and the dangers associated with it Integrity in church financials The upcoming Religious Business documentary Accountability in the church and a robust hope for the future Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center @thereligionbusiness Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #346: Nathan Apffel & Chris Ayoub on The Religion Business appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: How New Life Fellowship cultivates a multicultural community How to hold the contemplative and the charismatic together How to lead congregations with different political views Why church growth is unhealthy to obsess over Pastoring people through racial tension A biblical view of worship ministry Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Rich Villodas @richvillodas The Deeply Formed Life by Rich Villodas Good and Beautiful and Kind by Rich Villodas The Narrow Path by Rich Villodas Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #345: Rich Villodas on Contemplative vs Charismatic Tensions, Church Growth, & The Narrow Path of Jesus appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

“We’ve made the list of everything that could go wrong. It’s time to make the list of everything that could go right.” – Nikki Lerner Topics Covered: What it’s like to leave full time ministry after 20+ years The challenge of doing ministry when you’re paid to do it full time The importance of creative outlets outside of the church What to do when you’re bored with worship music Nikki’s philosophy of worship How to become a multicultural church The difference between multi colored and multicultural Mono-ethnocentricism and the worship industry Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Nikki Lerner Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #344: Nikki Lerner on Life After Full Time Ministry, Worship Culture Conundrums, & Fostering Multicultural Churches appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: Malcolm’s story of activism in South Africa Similarities of American culture today with South Africa in the 1970s and 80s. The spiritual underground and what that means What it means to be a Kingdom of Priests The problem with becoming comercially viable The story behind Common Hymnal’s new “Be Love” song Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Be Love by Common Hymnal Common Hymnal The King Center Common Hymnal Patreon Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #343: Malcolm DuPlessis on Racial Tension, Injustice, & The Commercialization of Worship appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Topics Covered: 5 of the biggest needs facing worship leaders right now The reality of worship ministry The difference between artist and worship leader The gift of obscurity The tensions of not earning worship artist fame To use tracks or not to use tracks? Practical tips for speaking from the stage Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Three Streams Worship – Mike’s Ministry Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #342: Mike O’Brien on Worship Artist/Leader Tensions, Local Church Ministry, & The Gift of Obscurity appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Tommy Preson Phillips, a pastor at Watermark Church, musician, and author of 'Invisible Jesus,' shares his insights on why people are leaving the church. He discusses his personal deconstruction journey and warns that many evangelical churches lack genuine engagement. Tommy critiques the worship industry, highlighting its superficiality and the disconnect in modern mega churches. He advocates for authentic spiritual connections and meaningful worship music, urging leaders to embrace change and focus on Christ-like values.

Kelsey is a brilliant thinker. She is a musicologist and educator based in Iowa, holding a PhD from the University of Iowa. Currently, Kelsey is a regular contributor to Christianity Today, writing and reporting on worship and church culture. She is also an adjunct professor at Grand View University in Des Moines, where she teaches on music and social justice. As as a graduate student and adjunct faculty member at the University of Iowa, she taught a variety of courses on music history, social justice and the arts, and human rights. She served on the staff of the University of Iowa Center for Human Rights from 2010-2019, where she was the academic advisor for undergraduate students pursuing a Certificate in Human Rights.  Kelsey’s dissertation research explored the use of American music in the reeducation of German POWs during WWII. Other areas of expertise include contemporary sacred music in the United States, 19th century choral music, Evangelical subcultures, human rights and the arts, and the intersection of art and ecotheology. She is an active presenter at academic conferences and accepts invitations for guest lectures and workshops on her research and on human rights education in higher ed.  Topics Covered: More about Kelsey and her journey into musicology and journalism Our over-dependence on tools in worship ministry Why having conversations with our congregation is important Why we think all worship music sounds the same The complications of Christian celebrity and worship music Facing the music of money and profits in the worship industry Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center @kelseykmcginnis Kelsey’s Website Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. So go to planningcenter.com to use People for free. The post #340: Kelsey Kramer McGinnis On Music, Money, & Profits in the Worship Industry (And What That Means For the Rest of Us) appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.