Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em Podcast

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com“Boys in crisis.” People write books about it. Melinda Gates just pledged $20 million to study it. Pundits make their bones rolling the phrase around in their mouths. But a crisis according to whom? Who profits when the American Psychological Society claims “traditional masculinity—marked by stoicism, competitiveness, dominance and aggression—is, on the whole, harmful"? And is telling boys they must change, with those changes often determined by women, just another recipe for resentment?To find out whether boys will be boys, regardless of how often they’re told not be, we went to the source: 17-year-old Milo Pesca, son of the Great Mike Pesca, host of The Gist podcast and broadcaster/thinker extraordinaire.On the table:* Milo’s voice is like a warm blanket* Did Ann Curry draw swastikas in the school bathroom?* Women and their endless talking* Sarah’s favorite mispronunciation* Can anyone define “toxic masculinity”?* Is vulnerability overrated?* Babysitter Maggie might have been going through some things* “I know I’m just a white dude …”* The land acknowledgment-ing of gender* “Girls Run the World,” or do they?* Male role models!* Watching boys is kind of cool* If men don’t like to talk, what’s up with those three-hour podcasts?* Paw Patrol: Threat or menace?!Also, how lazy idioms affect our thinking, and — stop the presses — Nancy and Sarah disagree on the quality they want in a man. Plus: Four hot boxes!

by Nancy RommelmannI’d like to introduce you to my mother. Not the woman I am sitting one foot away from in a Connecticut hospital bed, the skin on her hands as fragile as phyllo dough, the veins showing livid purple and the blue-green of old tattoos. Though it is true, her hands have always been this way.“You have such beautiful big veins,” I recall six-year-old Karen telling my mother. Maybe it was during one of the weekends Karen’s mother and my mother, not yet 33, drove a carful of kids out to Westhampton, to an out-of-rental-season house along the beach road. The house had many wooden decks, it was always cold, and our first night there, I told my mom to add more water to the Lipton chicken soup mix; that it was too salty. Turned out there was salt water in the taps. It was the 70s, when kids were expected to stay outside until after dark and take out our own splinters, of which the decks supplied many. We slept in sandy beds while, my mother later told me, Karen’s mom went to the bar and brought home this or that new friend. My mother did not do this; she was not much of a drinker, though these were the days when parents did things we absorbed without understanding: the white lie about why dad had not come home, the woman’s voice that woke me late one August night in a different rental house, and my knowing her cries, which I at first mistook for the howls of a cat, had something to do with her husband and my mother.“Mom, do you remember going to Westhampton?” I ask her now, interrupting her trying to eat a piece of chicken with a straw. She says yes and allows me to swap in a fork, it’s amazing how much she eats and yet keeps shrinking, 30 pounds gone since last fall, her legs not much more than long bones now. I’ve asked the nurses how this happens; how she burns so many calories while hardly moving.Or hardly moving but for her hands, ever looking for something to fix, folding and refolding a cloth, picking a shred of cheese from her blouse, holding my right hand in both of hers and pumping up and down for four minutes. I cannot glean the reasoning here, just as I could not see why, in the month before he died, my father held my wrist and stared in otherworldly fascination at my watch-face for 20 minutes. I asked my resolutely unspiritual (unless you count basketball and opera) math-savant dad, then, whether he was between here and some other next place.He considered this. “I think so,” he said. And was it okay? Yes, he said; it was.What else can I tell you about my mother? That the only picture she carries in her purse is one of herself. That the orange VW bug she drove us around in as kids had a bike rack and a ski rack and a bumper sticker that read, “Lacrosse: The Fastest Game on Two Feet.” That she used to wake up my brother and me by singing, “Everybody was kung fu fighting!” That when she walked, which she can no longer do, it was faster than any of us, she was ever in motion; even when she slept, she rocked and rocked and woke up in the mornings with her hair all ruched on one side. She also talked so fast that my father said, if he weren’t around her for a few weeks, he couldn’t understand her; that he could not keep up.What sentences my mother starts now usually trail off. She does not seem bothered by this. We are past the being bothered years, the taking mom's word for things years, the hiding the car keys and then disconnecting the battery years, the calling the oil company to see if I can wrest back some the excess $11,000 mom has sent, mailing check after check in an attempt to stay on top of her bills. It brings me no joy to see the fight gone out of her, while understanding, it makes it easier, in some ways, for the rest of us.My favorite thing to do now is to make her smile. She is always happy to see me, to see my brother, my daughter. She knows us still, though sometimes she will say, to me, "It's been so long since I've seen Nancy."But then, she can surprise. "You have a skirt on," she tells me, just now. Also, "I'd like to know in advance..." before looking back at the TV. My mother, who never watched television, is now enamored of cop shows, "Law & Order SUV" and "Chicago PD.""That's my guy," she told me, as recently as three months ago, of Jason Beghe."This was less than a year ago," my daughter says, sending a video of my mother half-running to greet her.There will be no more running, not after the broken hip. The previous rehab facility was gruesome, garbage on the floors, an orderly yelling that his paycheck wasn't available. The staff where she is now is cheerful and attentive, and I try, as I did when looking at my mother's hands, to find the beauty: the woman two doors down cooing in German to a plastic baby doll. P., her lipstick perfectly applied, waiting in her wheelchair by the nurses' station like a real-life Delta Dawn.My mother has buried three husbands, none of whom took the slow leave taking. My dad had lunch at his assisted living facility and, while talking to the nurses, went weak-kneed. They were tucking him in bed and, he dipped. Very elegant. My stepdad died after a short hospitalization. I was with him and, as I wrote, “There was so much beauty at the moment of death, near audible like a sip through a straw rushing into the night, the skin on his face going taut in an instant, and the color of beeswax.” My mother's last husband shrank and shrank from leukemia, my mother was with him when he died. Afterwards, she told me, she fell on her hands and knees into a snow-bank and shouted to the air, "I can't do this!" But she could. If I had a dollar for everyone who's ever said to me, "Your mother is a force of nature," I would have enough to buy her a fine steak dinner, though it might be wasted on her."The first time I took her out, she ordered a steak well done," my dad would say, insinuating, it had almost been a dealbreaker.What can I tell you about my mother? That she painted super-graphic stripes, including up and around a set of pocket doors, down the long hallway of our apartment. That she was a very good tennis player. That she grew up working-class on Long Island and wound up traveling the world. That at 25 she lost her own mother, a Greek immigrant who had my mother at 17, and missed her every day. I am hoping that whatever next place my dad saw, my mother gets to meet her mother there."I'm going to go now, Mom," I tell her tonight, and she forms her first sentence in three hours. "Is there enough?" she asks, and I don’t know how to answer. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comOur guest Kat Rosenfield is one of the best cultural critics of our day: Funny, incisive, fast-moving, and a great novelist to boot (see You Must Remember This). She’s a third-timer on this pod, which might be a record, and she’s just landed a plum gig as a columnist for the Free Press. You may know Kat from her podcast Feminine Chaos, with Phoebe Maltz-Bovy, or you may know Kat from Twitter, where she always keeps it interesting. She came on to talk about her latest column for the Free Press, “Does Divorce Make You Hotter?”Also discussed:* Divorce rings* So many Emilys* Bad-mouthing your former spouse in public* Tom Wolfe: “The right to shuck overripe wives”* Red flags in men are somehow not red flags when women do it?* The point of a personal esssay* WE LOVE MEN, good husbands edition* The people who crow their happiness on social media are almost never happy* Rasputin, the cat* Social media breakup announcements: We are the celebrities now* In defense of the “over-ripe” demographic* Sarah announces her new boyfriend, which almost certainly means she’ll break up tomorrow* But what does he eat for breakfast?* Do real criminals rap about their previously undetected crimes?Plus, Diddy and the potential dangers of confusing the artist with his art, some Andy Mills love, the origin story of Sarah’s new romance, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comOlivia Nuzzi is the Washington correspondent for New York Magazine, and a total fox, not that it’s AT ALL relevant to the work she does, which is top-tier. She began her career as a teenager at an alt-weekly in New Jersey and worked on the Anthony Weiner campaign (oh boy), and a story she wrote about that experience brought her to prominence. These days, she’s a rock-star writer with bylines in Politico, GQ, Esquire, and The Washington Post, and she was a finalist for the 2023 National Magazine Award for feature writing. She’s been covering the recent Trump trial from the courtroom — until she got kicked out, that is — and her insight into that uniquely American character has made her reporting a must-read. “Trump is not really there if he’s not being looked at by other people.”Also discussed:* “It’s certainly ‘Weiner.’”* How an obsession with comedy led a political beat* The peculiar power of being professionally curious* Olivia did not steal Corey Lewandowski’s photo album!* The journalist’s question: What the fuck is going on here?* How to NOT bribe a cop* Donuts as micro-aggression* Is Trump sleeping during his trial, and if so, why?* The beige oppression of a courtroom* Why Trump needs a beauty blender* Stormy Daniels: “I slept with THAT?!”* Trump as the classic American striver* “Bimbo eruptions”* But ARE we living in a simulation?* The greatness of Eddie Pepitone* “Just because something is not true doesn’t mean it can’t be a problem”* Olivia is named after who?!Plus, how being unable to say “More Ovaltine, please” changed the course of Olivia’s career, one of the great movie soundtracks according to Sarah, Olivia’s predictions about the trial and the 2024 election, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comEveryone knows gun violence is a problem, but whose problem, exactly? Big cities or rural areas? Republicans or Democrats? Most people respond to these questions with emotion, best guesses, knee-jerk anger, but our guest Magic Wade responds with data. A professor in Illinois, Wade started the profound 1000 Cities Project on Substack to show that “gun violence isn't merely a ‘red state’ or ‘blue city’ problem. It's a widespread, worsening phenomenon affecting too many American communities. This isn't moral panic, it's rational outrage.” The old storylines about gun violence aren’t working, but if we’re going to confront one of the great social catastrophes of our time, we need more robust information, and Magic Wade (her real name!) has it.Also discussed:* Growing up in Alaska with homesteader parents* Sometimes Mom sleeps with a loaded gun beside the bed* Assault-rifle deaths are a drop in the bucket* Why some victims of gun violence elicit more sympathy than others* When journalists turn academic research into hot takes* “When conflict escalates past a certain point, the conflict itself takes charge. The original facts and forces that led to the dispute fade into the background. The us-versus-them dynamic takes over.”* How Salon went hyper-partisan …* Mike Schmidt, ouuut in Portland* A better de-carceration movement* That time Minneapolis wanted to abolish the police* Surveillance vs. safety* Requested: More men dancing!* Two Degrees of Nancy RommelmannPlus, tips from a homicide detective that Sarah once dated, the feel-good caper of the summer, and the masculine hotness of Gene Kell

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comPeople are mad, version five million: A recent anti-celibacy ad on Bumble sparks outrage, a Catholic commencement speaker touting Catholic values sparks outrage, a rap mogul caught enacting violence that rap moguls are only supposed to rap about (not actually do) — well, you see the pattern.Nancy and Sarah find themselves out-shouted by the online hordes of angry social media users, ticked-off feminists, Benedictine nuns, Change.org users et al as they discuss the culture news of the past week.Also discussed:* “I Choose JIF”* What is a Harrison Butker, and why did it take over the news cycle?* The tyranny of “I don’t agree with everything they said…”* Should Nancy spring for a billboard protesting bleu cheese?* S. Korea floats the idea of paying people $70,000 to have a baby, which gives Sarah an idea for her next vacation…* The toxic stew of rom-com fantasy and porn kink that is online dating* Sarah takes a vow of what now?* Door-slammy feminism* “I like dick.” / “Thank you for sharing that.”* Can Diddy ever come back from this moment?Plus: Creative solutions for accidental boners, the Studio 54 of Dallas, and will Nancy and Sarah ever find a yacht rock song they both love?Go follow our new Facebook page. But don’t forget about our Instagram page.First Sunday Zoom is June 2, 8pmET/5pmPT. Our group watch/discuss is Pulp Fiction, which Nancy watched last night and about which she will say, while John Travolta’s charisma may be undeniable, there’s also…Choosy moms choose JIF, and choosy podcast listeners choose to be paid subscribers …

Ken Ilgunas may be the coolest writer you haven’t heard of yet. Sarah worked with him at Salon, where he wrote personal essays about: living in a van while attending Duke University; camping in the rain at Occupy Wall Street; and hiking the XL Pipeline. He’s since written memoirs about discovering the natural world and himself, including Walden on Wheels. He’s lived in Alaska and now lives in Scotland, but as a boy, he never went hiking, never went hunting, knew nothing of the natural world outside his small upstate New York town. Recently, he wrote in his newsletter about the profound effect podcasts had on him, and we’re here for it. Where else are you gonna get a primer on oral health, a disquisition on Jordan Peterson, and a plug for JIF peanut butter?Also discussed:* How to make a nasal strip look sexy* Ken will fly to Dallas and bang on the door if Sarah tries to date Tucker Carlson* Cardinal podcast sin = slow starts (#guilty)* Chronic dreams about grizzly bears* Studying journalism as journalism circles the drain* Liberal arts education: Yay or nay?* Van life before #vanlife* “Can we make this podcast sponsored by peanut butter?”* Radiolab and chill* Great moments in IDW* Bibliotherapy* Would you rather wake up to an hour of bird sounds or an hour of Twitter?* “A battering-ram kind of schlong”* That time Ken was a wet blanket in The New YorkerPlus, the first podcasts we remember listening to, the YouTube video that Sarah has watched 100 times, Ken chooses a hot box especially for each of the hostess (did it just get warm in here?) and much more.We have a Facebook now too! Give it a follow.No paywalls on this episode so feel free to share it.Freedom’s just another word for becoming a paid subscriber.Episode Notes:“I live in a van down by Duke University" by Ken Ilgunas (Salon)Ken Ilgunas’ websiteMore Ken Ilgunas stories at SalonWalden on Wheels: On The Open Road from Debt to Freedom by Ken IlgunasColumbia University faces calls for tuition refunds as school moves to hybrid classes for rest of term in wake of anti-Israel protestsMorning After the Revolution: Dispatches from the Wrong Side of History by Nellie BowlesWhat’s in your hot box?Ken, for Sarah:Ken, for Nancy:Sarah: Black Water, by Joyce Carol OatesNancy: The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down, by Anne FadimanKen picks the outro (great song) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

You may not recognize Andy Mills’ name, but you likely know his work: He co-created The Daily podcast for The New York Times, where he also produced Rabbit Hole, a fantastic series on the internet, and – quite fatefully! – the war on terror podcast, Caliphate. Shit happened. It was complicated. Andy is no longer at The New York Times. But he’s struck out on his own. Last year he gave us The Witch Trials of JK Rowling, one of 2023’s best podcasts, and now he’s back with a new podcast, Reflector, which tells “stories about the strange experiences of being human — sparking wonder, unveiling complexity, and igniting curiosity.” The first episode tackles a familiar topic, over-drinking, and centers on an unexpected subject: Katie Herzog, the very funny host of Blocked & Reported, who shares her experience with the anti-drinking drug Naltrexone. Nancy and Sarah chat with Andy about addiction, storytelling, faith, and how to push back on the media’s excesses.Also discussed:* The burden of knowing who is going to hell* The Bible, it has slow parts* The love of God is a very hard thing to lose* Drinking as a spiritual experience* How the social justice movement is deeply Protestant* The Caliphate scandal* About Andy’s exit from the New York Times …* Sarah, the black belt of dumping beer on people’s heads* Jealousy’s role in the media meltdown* More on Donald McNeil Jr. ouster, and Nancy could not be happier/angrier* Did Infinite Jest predict social media?* Naltrexone: Miracle drug, or “quick fix” that doesn’t address what’s wrong?* “You’re a smoker? Lucky you.”* A civil war on the movie Civil War* “I wanna listen to a podcast that’s just Nancy saying, ‘William Langewiesche.’”* The Harry Potter of adult romance novelsPlus, video texts equal love, why no stories are actually neutral, why alcohol is an “analog drug,” and much more! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comApril 22, 2022 will go down in the history books — for some reason, surely, though it’s also the date of our first Smoke ‘Em podcast. We celebrate our second year on the books with a pop quiz, some serious giggles, and (of course) Kegels for Peace.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comColeman Hughes was still an undergrad at Columbia in 2018 when the Quillette contributor landed a high-profile appearance on Sam Harris’ podcast. Since then, his own podcast Conversations with Coleman — along with his writing on race, tribal politics, and free expression — have made him one of the country’s most important commentators. He’s also a very talented musician and rapper and, as of this year, an author, with a new book called The End of Race Politics. He recently appeared on The View to promote that book, and the result was a viral clip that demonstrated the barbed agenda of co-host Sunny Hostin and the calm, rational demeanor of Hughes. His is the kind of grace in the face of unreason that could actually save the planet. Also discussed:* So how are things at Columbia University these days?* Did you know if you read the word “SHAME” 1000 times in a row, it changes minds?* What does “Zionism” mean?* Suddenly discovering the virtues of unbridled free speech on campus the moment you want to denounce Israel* Neo-racism and its cultural moment* “Lynching is the natural state” of humanity, but we create necessary edifices to control our baser instincts* If the DEI bureacratics didn’t show up to work, would anyone notice?* What is a “conservative,” anyway?* How Coleman maintains his super-power* Fighting words: “John Wick sucks”* The Cat Rapper, the C-A-T Rapper, people there is a CAT RAPPERPlus why Benny Morris is such a good ambassador for Israeli history, meditation app recs, and can Coleman finally solve Nancy and Sarah’s Knives Out: Glass Onion debate?Send us your letters! To smokeempodcast@gmail.com, and let us know if you do/do not want your name read on-airFree speech isn’t “free.” It takes a fight. Consider becoming a paid subscriber.