Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em Podcast

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah talk Thanksgiving turkeys — both the actual food, and the items we could do without. After killing off some sacred cows (Nancy’s looking at you, Brussel sprouts), we delve into She Said, the movie about the New York Times investigation that helped bring down Harvey Weinstein and launch #MeToo. Despite Oscar buzz and critical acclaim, the film tanked at the box office. What happened? We talk escapism, the bore of righteous cinema, and what a braver movie would have included.Next, we turn to the young grifters among us, who sniff out exactly what we can’t resist: Saving the world! The multibillion-dollar collapse of Sam “what’s a washing machine?” Bankman-Fried and Elizabeth “I don’t blink, I really don’t!” Holmes have become riveting dramas, satisfying that need we have to see false gods brought low.Then it’s on to our new bonus feature, a subscriber-only portion of the episode where we talk the power of the pussy, what’s in our hot boxes, and what we’re grateful for this Thanksgiving (besides stuffing), which includes you, dear listener. Now go subscribe! Pass the popcorn, crunch the chicarrones, and snuggle up with us when you become a free or paid subscriber.Episode Notes:Pie for Everyone: Recipes and Stories from Petee's Pie, New York's Best Pie Shop, new baking book that is Nancy’s obsession“A Special Place in Hell” podcast, with Meghan Daum and Sarah HaiderNancy’s traditional stuffing: Dry out 2 loaves of cheap white bread for a few days. Cut into cubes and toss with poultry seasoning, salt and black pepper. Melt one cup butter in the biggest pot you have, heavy bottomed preferred. Dice 2 yellow onions and a half-head of celery. Toss into the hot butter and saute, stirring occasionally to avoid scorching, until softened and with some brown bits. Add the giblets and liver, finely chopped, you’ve simmered in your turkey stock. (You did that right? If not, chicken broth works perfectly.) Some time during this process chew on the turkey neck you’ve also simmered, causing your husband every year to say, “I cannot watch you do that.” Toss the bread in the onion/celery butter, add more melted butter if it looks as though it needs it, moisten with stock or broth until it has the moistness you like, remembering that it will get moister inside the turkey. Yes, that’s right, you’re baking the turkey stuffed, don’t listen to all the health freaks, just make sure stuffing is cool before you stuff the turkey. Also make sure there’s a gigantic mound sticking out of the neck cavity. This will get deeply brown and crunchy and buttery from the basting. Cook’s prerogative to break off several hunks and eat these immediately.She Said, by Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey“‘She Said’ Bombs: Why Aren’t Awards Season Movies Resonating With Audiences?” by Brent Lang (Variety)“Harvey Weinstein, Convicted Rapist, Gloats Over ‘She Said’ Fizzling at Box Office,” by Elizabeth Wagmeister (Variety)“The Plan to Make Harvey Weinstein a Hero” by Megan Garber (Atlantic)“Former Harvey Weinstein Attorney Lisa Bloom, Angling for a Hefty Payday, Now Faces Fraud Allegations” by Lloyd Grove (The Daily Beast)“SBF: The Virtue Was the Con” by Lane Brown (New York)“They Lived Together, Worked Together and Lost Billions Together: Inside Sam Bankman-Fried’s Doomed FTX Empire” by WSJ staff (Wall Street Journal)“Moynihan Taught Me,” crypto edition (Vice) “Elizabeth Holmes Is Sentenced to More Than 11 Years for Fraud” by Erin Griffith (New York Times)Bad Blood by John Carreyrou“Humiliation is part of the punishment for Elizabeth Holmes” by Stephen L. Carter (Bloomberg) Episode notes continue for our paid subscribers! Including what we’re grateful for, a discussion of pussy power, and a 1977 chanteuse in a plunging gold-sequined top. (Ed. note: Aren’t these all kind of the same thing?)Are we saving the best for last? Find out by becoming a paid subscriber!

We weren’t thrilled by the idea of covering Candace Owens’ new documentary on George Floyd. Sarah was so nervous to log onto Daily Wire, you’d think she was downloading porn. Nancy scoffed at giving 90 minutes to a provocateur she detests. “The Greatest Lie Ever Sold” is flawed, but it also raises questions the media has largely ignored, introducing us to Floyd’s two roommates, who carried the financial burden of his death but never saw a dime of the $90 million raised by Black Lives Matter. A refusal to cover inconvenient truths — the grifts of BLM organizers, the complicated realities of Floyd’s life and death — is how conspiracies grow.“It shouldn’t be this hard to talk about things,” comedian Dave Chappelle lamented in his “Saturday Night Live” monologue, a watertight fifteen minutes that might have satirized Jewish stereotypes but also might have normalized them. Whatever your perspective, we dare you to beat Chappelle’s description of Trump as an “honest liar” and Melania as “the kind of chick James Bond would smash but not trust.”Meanwhile, Twitter convulses as Elon Musk takes over, a mess that’s also a bit fun. Sarah stans for “Infamous” comedian Andrew Schulz, and Nancy gives the view from Israel, along with a story about a Holocaust survivor that leaves us both wiping tears. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Why is Nancy in Tel Aviv? Was it Nick Gillespie or the ghost of Michael Moynihan who gave Sarah COVID? We dive into the mid-terms, or “the normie elections,” as one person on Twitter called them. Not a red wave, but a repudiation of political extremism, a reminder that MAGA is a losing hand, that abortion matters, and that election polling doesn’t work.It’s possible the only thing this country can agree on is Steve Kornacki, MSNBC data analyst and khaki-wearing dreamboat who also happens to be a friend of the pod. We delight in KorSNACKi fan-fiction generated on election night, and contemplate which Dem should run in 2024, given that the current guy is — well, you know.Then it’s on to the barnburner of a Britney Spears profile by Kerry Howley in New York magazine, “House of Spears,” about why the singer’s father placed her under a conservatorship. It’s also a sprawling intergenerational tale of violence, poverty, and mental illness told like a Southern gothic. We doubt anyone will write a better story this year. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

It’s hard to overstate the impact of the Shitty Media Men List on the media landscape back in October 2017. If you’ve never heard of it, good for you (not said sarcastically). If you have, you know it was a Google spreadsheet where 70 women, who remained anonymous, input names of media colleagues and acquaintances along with their alleged misbehavior, from creepy DMs to rape. This was a week after the Harvey Weinstein bombshell in The New Yorker, and men on the list lost jobs, friends, and reputations. As #MeToo was exploding, the idea of fighting back wasn’t popular. Stephen Elliott did it anyway. The writer, filmmaker and founding editor of the literary site The Rumpus filed a defamation lawsuit against the woman behind the list, Moira Donegan.In this week’s New York Magazine, journalist Lila Shapiro tackles the controversy and the personalities behind it as the legal battle heads toward court. Elliott, a friend of Nancy’s, was afraid the story would be a hit job. It wasn’t. Both Nancy and Sarah found it balanced, if favorable to the spirit of the list. Elliott agreed to come on the show to talk about his experience of being accused of rape, the personal and professional fallout, and whether these sorts of campaigns can ever (or eventually) have a positive impact. One detail not included in the story was Elliott’s car being spray-painted with the word RAPIST and his garage marked with the letters S C U M. We’re not sure why this was left out; Elliott says he sent the photos as well as the police report to the author. We share them with you here.We also discuss a current raft of #MeToo lawsuits, including cases against Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, Paul Haggis, and Danny Masterson. The details aren’t pretty.Finally, the girls talk about Sacheen Littlefeather, the Native activist best known for refusing Marlon Brando’s Oscar for The Godfather on his behalf. A recent SF Chronicle piece exposed Littlefield as a “pretendian” who invented her Indian background, according to her sisters. (The family was Mexican.) Nancy, with her connections to the Native world, could potentially be exercised about this; she is not.No hotbox this episode, but we do reveal that Rachel Dolezal has an OnlyFans. Not that we’re linking to it!Find out why we’re the “OnlyFans of podcasts” when you become a free or paid subscriber.Episode Notes:“Bad Reputation,” by Lila Shapiro (New York Magazine)“What to Do With ‘Shitty Media Men?’” by Doree Shafrir (Buzzfeed)“On Pandering: How to Write Like a Man,” by Claire Vaye Watkins (Tin House)“Harvey Weinstein’s Lawyers Say Everyone Had ‘Transactional Sex’ in Hollywood Before #MeToo,” by Elizabeth Wagmeister (Variety)“Harvey Weinstein Accusers Are Furious His Lawyer Called Gov’s Partner ‘Bimbo’,” by Pilar Melendez (The Daily Beast)“Woman describes alleged rape by ‘dead-eyed’ director Paul Haggis as trial opens,” by Priscilla DeGregory (NY Post)“Documentary Filmmaker Testifies Oscar Winner Paul Haggis Assaulted Her at Film Festival: ‘I Felt Humiliated,’” by Antonio Ferme, Brent Lang (Variety)“The Apostate: Paul Haggis vs. the Church of Scientology,” by Lawrence Wright (New Yorker)“Kevin Spacey Is Cleared of Anthony Rapp’s Battery Claim,” by Julia Jacobs and Nate Schweber (New York Times)“Actor Anthony Rapp: Kevin Spacey Made A Sexual Advance Toward Me When I Was 14,” by Adam B. Vary (Buzzfeed)“Scientology church looms over actor Danny Masterson rape case,” by Noah Goldberg (LA Times)“4 Women Claim the Church of Scientology Came After Them for Reporting Their Rapes,” by Gwynedd Stuart (LA Magazine)“Cuba Gooding Jr. Pleads Guilty to Forcible Touching,” by Benjamin Weiser and Colin Moynihan (NYT)“Sacheen Littlefeather was a Native American icon. Her sisters say she was an ethnic fraud,” by Jacqueline Keeler (San Francisco Chronicle)Outro song: “Apology Song” by the DecemberistsSo you’ve been lurking for a while. No apology needed, but isn’t it time to become a free or paid subscriber? This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Hey Smokers! Zoom hang #1, Wednesday, October 19, at 9pm ET. Paid subscribers get a link emailed day-of. Not yet a subscriber? Let’s fix that!Nancy and Sarah have fallen hard for documentary filmmaker Meg Smaker after her recent appearance on Sam Harris’ podcast. Smaker’s film, originally titled Jihad Rehab (now called The UnRedacted), was canceled before it was ever released, having met a perfect storm of identity politics, institutional cowardice, and social media pile-on. But what we see in Smaker is a champion of radical empathy. She’s also a bad-ass, a former firefighter who cusses like a Marine and describes herself as a “six-foot albino godzilla.” Our kinda woman. Our friend Meghan Daum, of The Unspeakable and A Special Place in Hell podcasts, brought our attention to the dust-up at Hobart literary journal, where Cuban-born writer Alex Perez gave an interview filled with the spot-on observations everyone knows but no one talks about (Sarah calls them “truth clicks”) and which — surprise! — led to five editors quitting. A new site called Semafor drops some truth bombs about tensions at The New York Times, including an exchange with a former editor that gave Nancy a mental orgasm. Speaking of orgasm: We climax with a discussion of the clitoris, and agree to volunteer for any future research. For science.It’s not hard to find the button where you become a paid or free subscriberEpisode Notes:Arkansas Hot SpringsThere are many good Korean spas in Los Angeles, including Olympic Spa and Beverly Hot Springs. Plan on spending 2-3 hours.Sojo Spa Club, in Edgewater, NJ, with free shuttle from 42nd St. in NYC“Sundance Liked Her Documentary on Terrorism, Until Muslim Critics Didn’t,” by Michael Powell (New York Times)Sam Harris: A TALE OF CANCELLATION: A Conversation with Meg SmakerJihad Rehab/The UnRedacted website and GoFundMe“Who Killed Creative Writing? Thoughts on Alex Perez, Hobart magazine, and the price of literary citizenship,” by Meghan Daum“Alex Perez on the Iowa Writers’ Workshop, baseball, growing up Cuban-American in Miami & saying goodbye to the literary community,” by Elizabeth Ellen (Hobart) “Inside the Identity Crisis at The New York Times,” by Ben Smith (Semafor)“New York Times Journalists Scared to Have an Op-Ed Page,” by Matt Welch (Reason)“The New York Times staff revolt over Tom Cotton’s op-ed, explained,” by Zack Beauchamp (Vox)“James Bennet’s Resignation Proves the Woke Scolds Are Taking Over The New York Times,” by Robby Soave (Reason)‘Threw Him Under the Bus’: NY Times Publisher A.G. Sulzberger Laments Bennet’s Ouster,” by Lloyd Grove (Daily Beast)Bari Weiss NYT resignation letter“Half the World Has a Clitoris. Why Don’t Doctors Study It?” by Rachel E. Gross (New York Times)The TV show Nancy was searching for was “The Practice,” and this was the story in which she asked each of the women about their body image. The most reluctant was Lara Flynn Boyle, whose mother stood off to the side during the shoot for the cover, pantomiming for Boyle a “Chest up! Chest out!” motionWhat’s in your hotbox?Sarah: LulaRich official trailerNancy: Black Water by Joyce Carol OatesOutro song: “Put the Message in the Box” by World PartyWe will world party with paid subscribers Wednesday, October 19 at 9pm ET! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Sarah finally caved and watched Ryan Murphy’s Jeffrey Dahmer series, the second most-popular show in Netflix history. (Can you guess the first?). It was difficult viewing, if also able to inspire a kind of love for one of Dahmer’s victims. As she and Nancy discuss, the reasons to watch/not watch these shows are complicated. Is it possible to humanize victims who met a most inhumane end? Who gets to profit from misery, and what, if anything, do creators of dramatized true crime owe to those whose real lives were forever scarred? Nancy instead watched part of the Dahmer documentary, and she and Sarah compare notes on fictional vs. nonfictional tragedy. Did Alex Jones learn the meaning of “fuck around and find out”? Oh yes he did, and yet does not seem to care that he owes the parents of the children murdered at Sandy Hook nearly $1 billion. Nancy is appalled by Stewart’s much-praised interview with Arkansas AG Leslie Rutledge, Sarah misses the old Jon Stewart, and we compare Stewart’s smug “take-down” to a deeply reported, illuminating Reuters story on trans issues. We read some moving reader comments, offer our hotbox picks, and (drumroll!)… Announce our first Zoom meet-up. Wednesday, October 19 at 9pm ET. An email invitation with link will go out to paid subscribers the day before. Join us! The leaves are turning, the wind whistles down the avenue, it’s the perfect season for becoming a paid or free subscriber.Episode Notes:Chris Andrade Walks the World, and recommends Nancy do so in Buenos Aires or Lima. Thoughts?DAHMER: Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story official trailerSarah forgot to mention to her fellow Gen X-ers that Molly Ringwald is in this series, playing Dahmer’s stepmother Shari. Conversations with a Killer: The Jeffrey Dahmer Tapes official trailerConversations with a Killer: The John Wayne Gacy Tapes official trailerThe cast of Stranger Things seasons 3 and 4, pre- and post-pandemicThe People v. O.J. Simpson: American Crime Story official trailerA Father’s Story, by Lionel DahmerRichard Jenkins, who stars as Jeffery Dahmer’s father Lionel, and perhaps best known for his role in Six Feet Under (such a good show!)“Interview: Richard Jenkins: ‘If a serial killer is your son, do you stop loving him?’” by Jonathan Romney (Guardian)The Humans, upcoming film starring Richard Jenkins, official trailerRita Isbell, sister of Dahmer victim Errol Lindsey“Controversy over Netflix's Jeffrey Dahmer show has taken over social media, from TikToks 'romanticizing' his crimes to calling out its 'LGBTQ' marketing,” by Michele Theil (Insider)“Mother of Dahmer victim condemns Netflix series: ‘I don’t see how they can do that’,” by Ramon Antonio Vargas (The Guardian)“What's real and what's fiction in Netflix’s Jeffrey Dahmer series, ‘Monster,’” JR Radcliffe (Milwaukee Journal Sentinel)Photo of Robert De Niro because why not?“Alex Jones Ordered to Pay Sandy Hook Victims’ Families Nearly $1 Billion,” by Elizabeth Williamson (New York Times)Jon Stewart gives a lesson in how not to conduct an interview by acting like a self-satisfied know-it-all interviews Arkansas attorney general Leslie Rutledge about the state banning gender-affirming care for minors“As more transgender children seek medical care, families confront many unknowns,” by Chad Tehune, Robin Respaut and Michelle Conlin (Reuters)“He came out as trans. Then Texas had him investigate parents of trans kids,” by Casey Parks (Washington Post)“The Trouble with Tavistock,” by Jesse Singal (Spectator World)We Were Feminists Once by Andi ZeislerFan Art always appreciated!What’s in your hotbox? (Ed: Nice transition …)Nancy: The Information by Martin AmisSarah: Hasan Minaj: The King’s JesterOutro song: When Nancy was writing To the Bridge, the CD in her car was the soundtrack to The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, by Nick Cave and Warren Ellis. The music, and especially “Rather Lovely Thing,” was plaintive and seemed not of this world, a sort of musical representation of the story she was writing about a murdered child. She listened to it at least 400 times, until the CD disappeared. Now she listens to it on Spotify.Break the fourth wall and join us on Zoom this Wednesday, October 19, at 9pm. The fun begins when you become a paid subscriber This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

We talk men: They’re falling behind in school, crunched (or checked out) in the labor market, confused about their purpose. Not all men (of course, of course). But signs point toward what we in the media are calling “a masculinity crisis,” a landscape explored in two new books, Richard Reeves’ Of Boys and Men and Nicholas Eberstadt’s post-pandemic update of Men Without Work.How did the pandemic hit men? Why do men struggle to make friends? Are there too many women teachers? (And is calling your teacher “Miss” a regional thing?) Should we be red-shirting boys by starting them a year later in school so their brain development can catch up, or should society maybe just stop telling them we don’t need them? A little kindness and appreciation might go a long way.Also on the docket: The NYU organic chemistry professor fired for being too hard, and Sarah sounds off on the magical thinking toward middle-aged celebrities and their pregnancies (but also, we’re sincerely happy for Hilary Swank). This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

The NC-17 Blonde has hit Netflix, and boy, are people fired up (“necrophiliac entertainment” wrote Manohla Dargis at NYT). At nearly three hours, the fictionalized version of Marilyn Monroe’s life is tough to watch — unrelentingly bleak, a bit disjointed, with a camera that can be as vulturous as the vultures it critiques — but damn if that movie didn’t haunt us both, and Ana de Armas gives an incandescent performance that has both of us thinking of cutting and bleaching our hair (which Sarah promised to do if we get enough paid subscribers). We talk about the fame trap, whether the film is “anti-abortion,” and if Hollywood will ever stop feeding on Marilyn’s corpse. The fame trap came for Anthony Bourdain, the restless wanderer and beloved chef who gets the unauthorized biography treatment later this month with Down and Out in Paradise. How did the man generally regarded as having the best job in the world end up taking his own life? Can a book sourced only by the people left behind by “the Tony train” possibly give a full account? We talk addiction, how journalism can turn ghoulish, and the very complicated figure of Asia Argento.A kiss on the hand may be quite continental, but don’t you think it’s better to become a free or paid subscriber?Episode Notes:Friday Night Lights on Hulu and Bloodline on NetflixGratuitous photos of Kyle Chandler and Taylor Kitsch (Ed: What is this, Tiger Beat? NR: Hush! Dibs on Chandler. SH: Fine, he’s yours. Tim Riggins, let me fix you.)Blonde official trailerMarilyn, by Gloria SteinemBaz Lurhmann’s ELVIS (2022) and Elvis Presley: The Searcher (2018)“‘Blonde,’ ‘Elvis’ and the challenge of telling the truth about icons,” by Sonny Bunch (Washington Post)“What’s Fact and What’s Fiction in Blonde, Netflix’s Marilyn Monroe Biopic,” by Ellin Stein (Slate)“Intentional or Not, Blonde Has an Anti-Abortion Message,” by Tess Garcia (Glamour)Bobby Cannavale in The Station Agent, a really good little movie…… and Boardwalk Empire, a great series“The Last Painful Days of Anthony Bourdain,” by Kim Severson (New York Times)“Author Responds to Family’s Unrest Over Controversial New Anthony Bourdain Book,” by Nardine Saad (Los Angeles Times)Down and Out in Paradise: The Life of Anthony Bourdain, by Charles LeerhsenRoadrunner: A Film About Anthony BourdainKitchen Confidential Updated Edition: Adventures in the Culinary Underbelly, by Anthony Bourdain“Asia Argento’s Time is Up,” by Nancy Rommelmann (Reason)Chef Reactions will bring you joy with more than a little of that Bourdain vibeWhat’s in your hotbox?Nancy: Dr. Loretta Intense Replenishing Serum, available widely and at Heyday, and Arcana Holocene Intense Lipid Repair Balm, at Beauty Heroes for a very good price!Sarah: The Elton John double-album “Goodbye Yellow Brick Road” (Spotify)Outro song: “Love Lies Bleeding” by Elton JohnDon’t let the sun go down on you before you become a free or paid subscriber.To commemorate the 1973 double album Yellow Brick Road, Nancy went looking for a teen pic of herself in Seventies garb but instead found one in which she appears to be dressed in someone’s shower curtain. Sarah found a pic of herself dressed the way a 15 year old in 1990 thinks people looked in the Seventies. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Sarah interrupts Madame Nancy in the middle of a seance, but hey, no better time for a podcast. After a brief discussion of their top five liquids (inspired by a recent interview with Malcolm Gladwell), they turn toward a 4000-word New York Times story about how Russian trolls might have influenced the implosion of the Women’s March. Nancy thinks the story whitewashes the leaders’ excesses and prejudices, particularly the anti-semitism of Linda Sarsour. Sarah finds the prospect of outside forces stoking civic discord legitimately worrisome, but both agree the Women’s March fell apart because of in-fighting over ideology, money, and mismanagement. We turn toward a story in the Atlantic that argues against sex segregation in sports, making some head-scratching assertions about girls’ ability to compete with boys. Sarah thinks it’s yet another failure to balance equal opportunity with biological difference, while Nancy points out that even Serena Williams admitted to David Letterman she’d lose every game to tennis champ Andy Murray since men were faster and stronger — none of which makes women inherently inferior, since women have other assets. Have we mentioned we love breasts? In the hot box this week: Crying in H Mart, a memoir that explores a complicated mother-daughter relationship and how food connects us, and Michael Moynihan chatting with Andy Warhol’s right-hand man, Bob Colacello. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Nancy Rommelmann was fortunate, through accident and the fog of war, to stay with Oksana Hutnyk and her family in Lviv, Ukraine this past March, two weeks after Russian forces invaded the country. Now, in mid-September, Oksana and her daughters, ages 13 and 7, have received special permission to leave Ukraine and visit America. First stop: Nancy's cramped apartment in NYC, where Oksana has a chance talk about why Ukraine banded together so quickly to fight Russia (hint: super-not interested to again live under a murderous Communist regime), why Ukrainian schoolchildren draw chalk pictures of "dead Putin," and what up with all the Boris Johnson adulation?Episode notes:"Dispatch from Ukraine: the Hutnyks of Lviv," by Nancy Rommelmann (Reason)  "Dispatch From Ukraine: Living as a Russian in Ukraine," by Nancy Rommelmann (Reason)"Dispatch From Ukraine: 'Let's Go. Let's Not Go.'" by Nancy Rommelmann (Reason) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe