Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em Podcast

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comHave you ever known someone who came back from the dead? (Aside from JC and Manti Te'o's girlfriend.) Well, you do now: Susan Meachan was a prolific writer of self-published romance novels when, following reports of online bullying, her suicide was reported in 2020. Alas, Meachen apparently found being dead a bit boring, and announced her resurrection this month. We dig into this story, leading to a discussion about the scorned but popular genre of romance, the endurance of boy bands, endless social media frauds, and how far people will go for love and attention. Susan, if you’re reading this: Sarah has questions.We then look at the latest university scandal, which PEN America calls “one of the most egregious violations of academic freedom in recent memory”: An adjunct art history professor at Hamline University in St. Paul, MN, showed the class a painting of the Prophet Mohammed. While she’d alerted the class in a syllabus as well as prior to the discussion, a Sudanese student nevertheless described herself as “blindsided”; a forum was held, accusations of Islamophobia and misconduct flew, and the whole thing wound up in the New York Times.Also discussed: What is nonbinary workwear? Is Sarah a nicer person than Nancy? Is it morally acceptable to have sex with a chicken if said chicken is dead? And what is a robot kitten (or as Nancy puts it, “kit-ten”)?Bonus content: The Menu is the dark foodie satire we need. We rediscover our love for Ralph Fiennes and praise Anya Taylor-Joy (recently of The Queen’s Gambit) and disagree on whether foodie culture has gone too far. Also: How much did Nancy pay to eat at the fabled Chicago restaurant Alinea, and who doesn’t have a crush on Harry Styles?

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com2023 is off to a roaring start, as the Twitter vultures rip apart the carcass of podcaster Lex Fridman’s reading list of the classics. (On the Road? Biiig mistake.) We discuss the passing of TV pioneer Barbara Walters, whose gently probing style allowed her to act as a kind of collective consciousness. She merged soft celebrity and hard-hitting politics to become a fixture in the American home. (And we didn’t even mention “The View”!) Did you know Walters filmed a TV segment dressed as a Playboy bunny a year before Gloria Steinem’s famous expose? The woman had one hell of a career.Vice assembled a genuinely diverse panel of nine women to discuss feminism, and oooh boy, it was fascinating. Arguments over abortion, trans women in sports, beauty privilege, #MeToo, the hour-long conversation was a real intersectional shit show. Is feminism dead? Maybe. Definitely. Certainly not. As Sarah says, “Feminism is an ongoing project that shape-shifts over time.” What’s cool about the panel is also what made it so contentious. These conversations are fraught, and no one agrees.In the bonus: New Year’s resolution talk about food and writing, let’s not bring Darren to the party, possible book club reading list, and Sarah makes a weird but touching offer to Nancy should they ever get stranded in the Sierra Mountains.Episode Notes:“A Murder in Portland,” by Nancy Rommelmann (Washington Examiner Magazine)“The Reality Portland Does Not Want to See: Everything modern Portland did led up to the horrific, predictable murder of Rachael Abraham,” by Nancy Rommelmann (Nancy’s Substack — go ahead and subscribe!)I mean, the guy was just asking to be cancelled …It’s all good!“Barbara Walters, a First Among TV Newswomen, Is Dead at 93,” by Alessandra Stanley (New York Times)“Cindy Adams remembers her friend Barbara Walters,” by Cindy Adams (NY Post)“Monica, you have been described as a bimbo, a stalker, a seductress. Describe yourself.” Barbara Walters interviews Monica Lewinsky on 20/20:Barbara Walters learns “the Bunny Dip”: “Slow Burn podcast: The Clinton Impeachment”“Why I Hope top Die at 75,” by Ezekiel J. Emanuel (Atlantic)“Headlong: Missing Richard Simmons” podcast by Dan Taberski“A Psychologist Explains Why Life is Easier For Attractive People,” by Romano Santos (Vice)“'Ugly Ducklings' On How People Treated Them When They Got Hot,” by Amelia Tait (Vice)“Anti & Pro Feminists Debate Abortion, Trans Rights, and #Metoo” | VICE Debates:“I did want to acknowledge the violence brought to my trans and non white counterparts during this whole thing,” Mindie Lind’s Instagram “The Problem With Intersectional Feminism,” by Helen Pluckrose (Areo)You’ve been called a bimbo, a stalker, a seductress, but with one simple text field, you could become a paid subscriber.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comIt’s our year-end wrap-up, and a flirtatious/contentious one! Nancy and Sarah spar over “Glass Onion,” the latest “Knives Out” mystery, before running down the most memorable moments of the past year (and 49 episodes!), from Will Smith’s slap to Teal Swan’s manipulation. We chat celebrity, cults, and spiritual voids. (Kwanzaa turns out to have a pretty bleak history, but Joyous Kwanzaa to you, anyway.) Why is Nancy so drawn to narcissistic liars? Why is Sarah so willing to defend terrible people? The tension grows thick. Will our hosts ever stop quibbling and admit they’re in love? (That’s for the paid subscribers, people.)Bonus content: Who are our picks for person of the year? Villain of the year? We share our favorite movies, TV shows, and books, and make our bid for the most important news story of 2022. Then we confess all our secrets. Or at least, like, two.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comMeghan Daum is an acclaimed essayist who hosts two podcasts, the interview show “The Unspeakable” and the current topics-based “A Special Place in Hell” with Sarah Haider. Meghan is an inspiration to many, including Sarah. While Nancy bakes pie in some upstate New York location, Sarah engages in a far-ranging solo interview with Meghan that somehow includes: Terry Gross, Michael Barbaro and his noises of affirmation, Fran Lebowitz, Meghan’s unconventional childhood of music theory and tiny adulthood, Tom Waits and Joni Mitchell, the birth of “call outs,” Roxane Gay and Bad Feminist, why heterodox writers might be the new counter-culture, the invisibility of Generation X, whether Meghan and Sarah are “conservative” despite identifying as liberals (and what “conservative” even means in an era of political realignment), why neither of us became mothers, and if there’s any truth to Candace Owens’ crack about childless women that “if you don’t use your eggs, they scramble.”On the paid-subscriber-only episode (Ed. note: It’s really good): The perils of writing about people in your life, why Sarah dates younger men, the most controversial claim Meghan can make about herself, marriage versus singlehood, and how feminist discourse got swallowed by gender ideology.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comThe Los Angeles trial of Harvey Weinstein ended with jurors proclaiming the disgraced movie mogul alternately guilty, not guilty, and [shrug emoji]. Nancy and Sarah plumb deeper on the trial, centered on the allegations of four Jane Does (including one spouse of a California governor). The two-month trial gained little traction in the press, perhaps because Weinstein was convicted in the court of public opinion five years ago. People are done with him, the monster in his cage. But not Nancy and Sarah! The latter goes deep on Weinstein’s childhood, his bullying mother, the forces that shaped him. Nancy reminds us how much young women will sacrifice to step into the Hollywood magic machine. They discuss Ken Auletta’s book Hollywood Ending: Harvey Weinstein and the Culture of Silence, and Ronan Farrow’s HBO docuseries Catch and Kill.In the paid-subscribers-only content (sign up on Substack): Why are people talking about “nepo babies”? Also: Twitter, twittered, twittering. What we gain (and maybe lose) when we step away from social media, and why it’s always better to complicate the picture.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comTwitter seemed so simple at first. Both of us joined in 2009, and Nancy loved the economy of form, though Sarah was confused by the purpose and character count. She wound up live-tweeting things like, “Her hat is weird.” Thirteen years later, Twitter is the white-hot center of a cultural debate over politics, civility, and the future of journalism. Elon Musk is trying to build the plane while he flies it, and it’s unclear whether that plane is finding new altitude, or crashing into a mountainside.We discuss former head of Trust & Safety Yoel Roth, ambitious world-builder/left-wing pariah Bari Weiss, and of course Musk himself, who has become #1 hero and public enemy. (This was recorded before Musk polled Twitter users to ask if he should step down. They voted yes, by the way.) Nobody knows where this wild ride is heading, but Sarah cautions against what folks in AA call, “Contempt prior to investigation.” Nancy agrees, with a parable about how she actually does like eggplant.In the paid-subscriber-only content (on Substack): Sex sells, but who’s the customer? Not Nancy, who has zero interest in hearing about other people’s sex lives (or discussing her own). Not so fast, says Sarah. Sex is an expression of character, one of the deepest connections you can find with another human, and the problem is not sex writing but the shallow, performative way it’s written. Then we discuss: MILF Manor!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah watched the Harry and Meghan series on Netflix so you don’t have to. Actually, they never finished it, but that doesn’t stop them from having opinions. “I’d rather watch an hour-long ad for Purina cat food,” Nancy declares, while Sarah is still processing how the Prince was first drawn to Meghan after seeing a SnapChat photo where she’d used the filter of a puppy dog.Then it’s on to the Golden Globes nominations. Sarah and Nancy disagree about “Everything Everywhere All At Once,” Sarah rants about not liking “The Banshees of Inisherin,” and they clash over the value of shopping malls. Debate for another time. The Golden Globe noms did have a few snubs, such as season two of “Reservation Dogs” (which Nancy raves about again, and not for the last time). And no female film directors were nominated, notably Gina Prince-Bythewood for “The Woman King” and Sarah Polley for “Women Talking.” But what’s up with these lame titles? (See also: “She Said,” discussed on episode 44).

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comThe New York Times stages a (one-day!) strike, and Nancy and Sarah debate unions, or what Sarah sees as a “20th-century infrastructure being dragged to 21st-century.” We also talk the Twitter Files, in which Elon Musk releases thousands of internal Twitter documents to two independent journalists, and legacy media lose their collective minds. The first Twitter Files dump (ew!) came a week ago Friday, a 40-plus thread by investigative reporter Matt Taibbi, who was swiftly labeled savior, has-been, and scumbag. “I take it all back, TWITTER IS THRILLING,” Sarah texted Nancy around tweet #15.Sarah also got sucked in to the second season of The Vow, the HBO documentary on NXIVM, the human-potential company better known as a “sex cult.” The six-part doc (much better than season one) follows the trial of leader Keith Raniere, a master manipulator who teaches personal empowerment as he exerts a scary control. Talking with apostates and true believers, The Vow asks: When are we responsible for our own behavior? It’s a haunting tale about belief, coercion, and our need for belonging.Our paid-subscriber-only content includes a favorite topic, lying sociopaths — in this case, Grey’s Anatomy writer Elisabeth Finch, whose fake cancer and sympathy scams were exposed in a Vanity Fair article discussed in episode 11. Now comes a follow-up where Finch, “disgraced and in exile, explains what made her do it.” But does she?Plus! A special on-air appearance by bingo-card favorite and Fifth Column co-host Matt Welch, whose thoughts on Smoke ‘Em If You Got ‘Em are …All this and much more!You can fill that “un-fillable love hole” and get access to juicy bonus content when you become a paid or free subscriberEpisode Notes:“NY Times staffers walk out — but two key reporters cross picket line” (New York Post)Nancy was live at the scene:“Ousted NY Times Reporter Donald McNeil Jr. Speaks Out: ‘I’ve Been a Jackal Circled by Jackals’” by Lindsey Ellefson (The Wrap)“NYTimes Peru N-Word, Part One: Introduction,” by Donald McNeil Jr. (Medium)“Unionizing Salon Is Easier Said Than Done: 'We're Incredibly Frustrated,' Staffer Says,” by Dave Jamieson (HuffPo)“Elon Musk, Matt Taibbi, and a Very Modern Media Maelstrom,” by Michael M. Grynbaum (New York Times)Transcript from the Munk Debates: "Be it Resolved: Don't Trust Mainstream Media" (TK News) Bari Weiss resignation letterJournalists having trouble authenticating anything Jim Baker says? That’s not new.No, not that Jim Bakker!“Controversial Take: It’s Bad To Put Words In The Mouths Of Murder Victims,” by Jesse Singal (Substack)“Twenty years ago, in Moscow, Matt Taibbi was a misogynist asshole—and possibly worse,” by Aimee Levitt (Chicago Reader)NXIVM Wikipedia entry is a solid crash course“Inside Nxivm, the ‘Sex Cult’ That Preached Empowerment,” by Keith Raniere (New York Times)

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comPerformer Irene Cara died this week, but what was she doing before that? How did a major ‘80s talent just … disappear? We answer that question and discuss the cultural impact of the 1980 musical Fame, which is like a blueprint for our American Idol-inspired, TikTok-addled moment. The Alan Parker movie may be remembered for its kick-ass theme song (and lesser TV adaptation), but the film holds up, kinetic and dark and deeply ambivalent about a career in the arts. Also, both Sarah and Nancy were obsessed with it. Nancy tells us about a doxxing controversy in Portland among black-bloc activists, who are angling for their own kind of fame. Then we discuss Ben Smith’s story on disgraced novelist Junot Diaz, including what it means to “forcibly kiss” someone (we both know from experience). In the subscriber-only bonus content, we come to different conclusions about the new Hulu series “Fleishman Is In Trouble,” though we both agree the show runner and author of the novel, Taffy Brodesser-Akner, is one of the best cultural observers out there. Also: The movie that made Sarah love going to the movies again, and Nancy discovers a new author-love. Episode Notes:“What is the origin of the term hoochie mama?” (Quora)“How ‘Beyond the Valley of the Dolls’ Reveals Roger Ebert’s Values as a Film Critic,” by Matt Singer (Indie Wire)Olive Tree Cafe/Comedy Cellar is where the best band in the world performs every Monday night at 9pm. You will sometimes find Nancy there! Here’s a shot from this past Monday, with Michael Moynihan and her daughter Tafv Sampson.Oh, but you want to Coleman Hughes and the band? Okay!Four journalists walk into the Supreme Court of IsraelGirls Night In board game Irene Cara obituary (New York Times)Fame on WikipediaFame trivia on IMDB is a very satisfying read“An Oral History of Fame, 40 Years On,” by Catherine Shoard (The Guardian)Fame official trailerEight-year-old Irene Cara appears on “Ted Mack Amateur Hour” Irene Cara, “Flashdance … What a Feeling”Gene Anthony Ray obituary (New York Times)“Remembering His Name: The Legacy of Gene Anthony Ray,” by Jeremy Kinser (LGBTQ Nation)Gene Anthony Ray playing Leroy Johnson in FameIrene Cara, “Out Here On My Own”As Sarah mentions, Fame grew out of the Broadway play A Chorus Line, which the cast of Hamilton honored several years ago by singing the Chorus Line hit “What I Did For Love.” Has Nancy watched this video a dozen times and cried every time? Well…Midnight Express official trailerIrene Cara wins Best Original Score for “Flashdance… What a Feeling”“Ready for an Encore,” by Jennifer Wulff (details of Cara’s law suit, People)The Back Story with Irene Cara podcast“Junot Diaz in Limbo,” by Ben Smith (Semafor)The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao is the Junot Diaz book whose title Sarah flubbed“The Silence: The Legacy of Childhood Trauma,” by Junot Diaz (The New Yorker)Felicia Sonmez has something to say …“The Shiv in the Hand of Kindness,” Nancy on Sonmez, part googolplex (Arc Digital)“To Tell You the Truth,” by Sarah Hepola on meeting Jayson Blair (The Morning News)Stephen Elliott talks “Truth, Consequences, and "S****y Media Men” (Smoke ‘Em If You Got ‘Em, episode 41) The best holiday gift is the one you give yourself, so isn’t it time you become a free or paid subscriber?

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah talk Thanksgiving turkeys — both the actual food, and the items we could do without. After killing off some sacred cows (Nancy’s looking at you, Brussel sprouts), we delve into She Said, the movie about the New York Times investigation that helped bring down Harvey Weinstein and launch #MeToo. Despite Oscar buzz and critical acclaim, the film tanked at the box office. What happened? We talk escapism, the bore of righteous cinema, and what a braver movie would have included.Next, we turn to the young grifters among us, who sniff out exactly what we can’t resist: Saving the world! The multibillion-dollar collapse of Sam “what’s a washing machine?” Bankman-Fried and Elizabeth “I don’t blink, I really don’t!” Holmes have become riveting dramas, satisfying that need we have to see false gods brought low.Then it’s on to our new bonus feature, a subscriber-only portion of the episode where we talk the power of the pussy, what’s in our hot boxes, and what we’re grateful for this Thanksgiving (besides stuffing), which includes you, dear listener. Now go subscribe! Pass the popcorn, crunch the chicarrones, and snuggle up with us when you become a free or paid subscriber.Episode Notes:Pie for Everyone: Recipes and Stories from Petee's Pie, New York's Best Pie Shop, new baking book that is Nancy’s obsession“A Special Place in Hell” podcast, with Meghan Daum and Sarah HaiderNancy’s traditional stuffing: Dry out 2 loaves of cheap white bread for a few days. Cut into cubes and toss with poultry seasoning, salt and black pepper. Melt one cup butter in the biggest pot you have, heavy bottomed preferred. Dice 2 yellow onions and a half-head of celery. Toss into the hot butter and saute, stirring occasionally to avoid scorching, until softened and with some brown bits. Add the giblets and liver, finely chopped, you’ve simmered in your turkey stock. (You did that right? If not, chicken broth works perfectly.) Some time during this process chew on the turkey neck you’ve also simmered, causing your husband every year to say, “I cannot watch you do that.” Toss the bread in the onion/celery butter, add more melted butter if it looks as though it needs it, moisten with stock or broth until it has the moistness you like, remembering that it will get moister inside the turkey. Yes, that’s right, you’re baking the turkey stuffed, don’t listen to all the health freaks, just make sure stuffing is cool before you stuff the turkey. Also make sure there’s a gigantic mound sticking out of the neck cavity. This will get deeply brown and crunchy and buttery from the basting. Cook’s prerogative to break off several hunks and eat these immediately.She Said, by Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey“‘She Said’ Bombs: Why Aren’t Awards Season Movies Resonating With Audiences?” by Brent Lang (Variety)“Harvey Weinstein, Convicted Rapist, Gloats Over ‘She Said’ Fizzling at Box Office,” by Elizabeth Wagmeister (Variety)“The Plan to Make Harvey Weinstein a Hero” by Megan Garber (Atlantic)“Former Harvey Weinstein Attorney Lisa Bloom, Angling for a Hefty Payday, Now Faces Fraud Allegations” by Lloyd Grove (The Daily Beast)“SBF: The Virtue Was the Con” by Lane Brown (New York)“They Lived Together, Worked Together and Lost Billions Together: Inside Sam Bankman-Fried’s Doomed FTX Empire” by WSJ staff (Wall Street Journal)“Moynihan Taught Me,” crypto edition (Vice) “Elizabeth Holmes Is Sentenced to More Than 11 Years for Fraud” by Erin Griffith (New York Times)Bad Blood by John Carreyrou“Humiliation is part of the punishment for Elizabeth Holmes” by Stephen L. Carter (Bloomberg) Episode notes continue for our paid subscribers! Including what we’re grateful for, a discussion of pussy power, and a 1977 chanteuse in a plunging gold-sequined top. (Ed. note: Aren’t these all kind of the same thing?)Are we saving the best for last? Find out by becoming a paid subscriber!